Spoke to a Mississippi high school coach while on vacation

[gtowndawg]

I was on vacation in the Gulf Shores area and we had a State flag flying on the house. A man saw the flag and struck up a conversation at the pool. He is a long time head football coach in Mississippi and a State grad. That's all I'm going to say, so don't ask where. I will also say he's coached two State LEGENDS over the years. Point being, he's all Dawg.

We chatted about a lot of things and somehow recruiting came up. The two take aways he brought up (I didn't ask):

1. Hevesy is awful. "Worst recruiter I've ever seen." Said he treats the players, their parents and coaches like "morons". His words, not mine. Yes, Mullen and Hevesy are tight. "Buds" as he said.
2. Mullen assumed they had AJ Brown and he didn't make a strong effort until LATE in the recruiting game. Way too late to make a difference at that point. I responded and said hopefully Mullen has learned his lesson. However, the very next day, Willie Gay committed to Ole Miss. Literally, the day after he told me.

I know many have implied these things on here, but personally I've always held out hope that maybe it's just not true. Ole Miss probation or not, we still have things to correct before we can 'cruit with with the big boys. Especially on the line, our most glaring need.

[AROB44]

Guess we just need to fire Mullen and get it over with. You can't micromanage asst coaches. If you don't trust the head coach to hire and fire assistants, then you just need to go ahead and bite the bullet and replace him.

[ShotgunDawg]

I know many have implied these things on here, but personally I've always held out hope that maybe it's just not true. Ole Miss probation or not, we still have things to correct before we can 'cruit with with the big boys. Especially on the line, our most glaring need.

It can be difficult sometimes to trust what high school coaches say because they don't always see things from the same perspective as college coaches or understand what it's like to stand in their shoes. You also don't know if they are big picture thinkers or dwell on something small.

However, I completely agree with the last thing you said. Many are using Ole Miss going on probation as a crutch to highlight that we are doing things the right way, however, I don't believe that. Although Ole Miss going on probation will make us feel better, it's not going to solve our problems. It's not going to help us recruit against LSU, Bama, Auburn, & Tennessee. Futhermore, the kids that want hand outs will still choose schools that offer hand outs. I could easily argue that Ole Miss going on probation will benefit Tennessee & Auburn just as much, if not more, than us.

[confucius say]

[QUOTE=ShotgunDawg;577517]It can be difficult sometimes to trust what high school coaches say because they don't always see things from the same perspective as college coaches or understand what it's like to stand in their shoes. You also don't know if they are big picture thinkers or dwell on something small.

brad Petetson said the same thing last month. Night and day when you are on the college side instead of the high school side

[maroonmania]

Guess we just need to fire Mullen and get it over with. You can't micromanage asst coaches. If you don't trust the head coach to hire and fire assistants, then you just need to go ahead and bite the bullet and replace him.

Apparently its our destiny to have one glaring assistant coach albatross hanging around the neck of our HC because of blind loyalty to a "buddy". For Croom it was McCorvey and for Mullen its Hevesy. 99% of the fanbase wants Hevesy ousted primarily because of the huge recruiting liability he is but unfortunately there is only one opinion that really matters on the subject and that is Mullen's.

[Reason2succeed]

It is obvious that AJ Brown required a signing bonus. We don't need to play that game because we don't win that game and we will get busted much faster than OM did.

[Coach34]

The thing is- we keep hearing the same things over and over. I've not met one person anywhere that said "ya know Mullena and Hevesy are really good recruiters"

[ShotgunDawg]

The thing is- we keep hearing the same things over and over. I've not met one person anywhere that said "ya know Mullena and Hevesy are really good recruiters"

Excellent point

[Coach34]

Ole Miss is not the only school offering money- although they do offer top dollar. They take pride in it

[ShotgunDawg]

Ole Miss is not the only school offering money- although they do offer top dollar. They take pride in it

This is why them going on probation really won't make us better. We aren't competing head to head for most of the players they are getting. Auburn & Tennessee are about to really really good

[maroonmania]

The thing is- we keep hearing the same things over and over. I've not met one person anywhere that said "ya know Mullena and Hevesy are really good recruiters"

Exactly, that is why I think we are stuck at a 7-8 win ceiling with Mullen which is pretty dang good considering our history but not much use for really holding out hope for a championship. When you have what I would consider A- coaching with maybe C+ recruiters at a non-traditional school like MSU (essentially a school that doesn't recruit itself), then about 7-8 wins is where you are stuck at for most seasons.

[Jack Lambert]

Didn't some coach at some catholic high school just come out a few months ago on Twitter and bash college coaches? I don't trust what they say.

[Dawgology]

Exactly, that is why I think we are stuck at a 7-8 win ceiling with Mullen which is pretty dang good considering our history but not much use for really holding out hope for a championship. When you have what I would consider A- coaching with maybe C+ recruiters at a non-traditional school like MSU (essentially a school that doesn't recruit itself), then about 7-8 wins is where you are stuck at for most seasons.

What's crazy is thinking how phenomenal we could be if we maintained the A- coaching while bettering our recruiting even to B grade area. Imagine what Mullen could accomplish with 10 4* players signed EVERY season. We are on the verge of that but it will never happen if our recruiting remains where it is right now.

[Taog Redloh]

It's not going to help us recruit against LSU, Bama, Auburn, & Tennessee.

It's going to take a lot more than firing Hevesy (or ANY coach, for that matter) to fix our recruiting issues in football. Before we will ever attract the top flight talent needed to consistently win, we are going to have to find a way to break through the glass ceiling that most of the have-nots are under. We are going to have to use a different blueprint. Ole Miss recruited about as well as a MS school could ever hope, and they still fell short.

No, we need to rethink this thing. We are going to have to innovate. Let's win an SEC title or make the playoff, THEN let's start talking about recrootin with the SEC have's. We have to know what we are and what we aren't.

[bulldawg28]

High school coaches are a bunch of "what's in it for me guys".

[AROB44]

Exactly, that is why I think we are stuck at a 7-8 win ceiling with Mullen which is pretty dang good considering our history but not much use for really holding out hope for a championship. When you have what I would consider A- coaching with maybe C+ recruiters at a non-traditional school like MSU (essentially a school that doesn't recruit itself), then about 7-8 wins is where you are stuck at for most seasons.

Other than Hev, who are the other C+ recruiters?

[maroonmania]

Other than Hev, who are the other C+ recruiters?

I was just giving an estimated average of our recruiters against SEC standards. Hev is nowhere close to a C+ recruiter, he would likely be no better than a D.

[Irondawg]

Sure HS coaches and College coaches see things different. But when a long time HS coach lables someone as the worst he's ever seen it means something. That's not comparing someone against 15 other people. That's comparing it to the hundreds of people he's seen before.

That's a problem, a big problem. To me the Lashley thing is still on him. Time will tell how bad a mistake that is. AJ, who knows, but pretty sure the staff may Gay a priority. They had him around all the time it seemed.

[West Houston Dog]

Dan has done a good job elevating our program. But he is a 3 star recruiter. Friend of mine calls him ''3 Star Dan". we hear this over and over about Hevesy. Yet nothing changes. He is tied to him like Croom was with McCorvey. And it is hurting the program. In my view, Dan has gotten comfortable ....we are grateful to be where we havent been before and he is getting 4 mil+ per year. But can Dan get us to the next level without upgrading our recruiting results?. In my view, he is being outdone by Freeze. In recruiting they are getting the 4's and 5's. We get 3's with a smattering of 4 star talent. Once every 4 yrs we get a 5 but only an instater. And Dan is one play away from being 0 fer against Freeze.

Now I am thankful he hired the 3 recruiting specialists we did. A big step in the right direction that can only help... we will see how much. Dan's achilles heel is Hevesy and he will not do anything to change/upgrade. So we damn well better hope our coaches can develop what will usually be 3 star talent because that is what will be most of the roster.......

[Bodaski]

High school coaches are a bunch of "what's in it for me guys".

I coached 28 years and 25 of those were in HS, and you are full of crap to make a blanket statement like that.

[Coach34]

I coached 28 years and 25 of those were in HS, and you are full of crap to make a blanket statement like that.

agreed. Very few are like that. Most just wanna see their players move on to their alma mater or to a good program

[Westdawg]

i am gonna have to disagree with Heavesy being the worst recruiter ever.....the WORST i ever met from any school - bar none - was Rocky Felker. I truly believe that the ONLY decent coaches we had at the time that were also decent recruiters were the TE/special teams guy and Turner. The rest of that entire staff was the worst recruiting staff i have ever had the dishonor of meeting. and it made it all the worse because they were from my alma mater. And yes, Nix (OM) would walk into the school and sit down FOR HOURS and talk to every soph, jr, and sr we had whether they would ever recruit them or not. My HC at the time for our staff never played favorites. he offered the same time to every coaching staff. UT, Ark, OM, and sometimes Bama would do it. The only coach from that staff that showed up was Rocky Felker. He left his card at the front office. didn't want to see anyone. just dropped off his card and a folder. i caught him as he was in the office and tried to chat him up. he had no interest at all in staying. no interest in coming to pick up video, talk to the HC...NOTHING.
Croom may be a great guy, but that was arguably the WORST HC hire in the history of the SEC. almost the entire staff was incompetent or completely in over their head.
----rant over

[maroonmania]

In my view, he is being outdone by Freeze. In recruiting they are getting the 4's and 5's. We get 3's with a smattering of 4 star talent. Once every 4 yrs we get a 5 but only an instater. And Dan is one play away from being 0 fer against Freeze.


And one thing we need to realize on the recruiting front is that while yes, UNM absolutely is getting some top notch recruits based on the Network and providing impermissible benefits, even if you took all of that away Freeze and staff are still better recruiters than Mullen and crew because Freeze and his bunch eat, sleep and live recruiting while Mullen just doesn't. Freeze absolutely eats up recruiting and loves it and uses every tactical advantage he can dream up, Mullen is not and will never be that way. Mullen only recruits because he has to, not because he wants to.

[maroonmania]

i am gonna have to disagree with Heavesy being the worst recruiter ever.....the WORST i ever met from any school - bar none - was Rocky Felker. I truly believe that the ONLY decent coaches we had at the time that were also decent recruiters were the TE/special teams guy and Turner. The rest of that entire staff was the worst recruiting staff i have ever had the dishonor of meeting. and it made it all the worse because they were from my alma mater. And yes, Nix (OM) would walk into the school and sit down FOR HOURS and talk to every soph, jr, and sr we had whether they would ever recruit them or not. My HC at the time for our staff never played favorites. he offered the same time to every coaching staff. UT, Ark, OM, and sometimes Bama would do it. The only coach from that staff that showed up was Rocky Felker. He left his card at the front office. didn't want to see anyone. just dropped off his card and a folder. i caught him as he was in the office and tried to chat him up. he had no interest at all in staying. no interest in coming to pick up video, talk to the HC...NOTHING.
Croom may be a great guy, but that was arguably the WORST HC hire in the history of the SEC. almost the entire staff was incompetent or completely in over their head.
----rant over

Interesting you make that comment on Felker. Had always heard that recruiting was actually one of his strengths and he did leave Sherrill a pretty decent cupboard of talent when he left.

[Westdawg]

Interesting you make that comment on Felker. Had always heard that recruiting was actually one of his strengths and he did leave Sherrill a pretty decent cupboard of talent when he left.

maybe he was tired of the work it took; maybe it was because he knew he was working for a terrible HC that didn't care. maybe he was just trying to close out his years for state retirement.
all i know is that i have never been more ashamed of our program as i was at that point. i never talked to another MSU coach until the Mullen tenure began....that is telling. and it wasn't because we prevented them from coming by. They just never came at all. or made any other contact. and that was Croom's entire time as HC.

[Dawg61]

Guess we just need to fire Mullen and get it over with. You can't micromanage asst coaches. If you don't trust the head coach to hire and fire assistants, then you just need to go ahead and bite the bullet and replace him.

This is a phenomenal post and everyone is overlooking it. Rep given

[parabrave]

Didn't some coach at some catholic high school just come out a few months ago on Twitter and bash college coaches? I don't trust what they say.

Yeah, I think he banned OM Coaches from SSCs campus or something like that. The same school that has a very large endowment from the Seal family.

[Turfdawg67]

Dan has done a good job elevating our program. But he is a 3 star recruiter. Friend of mine calls him ''3 Star Dan". we hear this over and over about Hevesy. Yet nothing changes. He is tied to him like Croom was with McCorvey. And it is hurting the program. In my view, Dan has gotten comfortable ....we are grateful to be where we havent been before and he is getting 4 mil+ per year. But can Dan get us to the next level without upgrading our recruiting results?. In my view, he is being outdone by Freeze. In recruiting they are getting the 4's and 5's. We get 3's with a smattering of 4 star talent. Once every 4 yrs we get a 5 but only an instater. And Dan is one play away from being 0 fer against Freeze.

Now I am thankful he hired the 3 recruiting specialists we did. A big step in the right direction that can only help... we will see how much. Dan's achilles heel is Hevesy and he will not do anything to change/upgrade. So we damn well better hope our coaches can develop what will usually be 3 star talent because that is what will be most of the roster.......

Newsflash people... Ole Miss is in the midst of a 3+ year NCAA investigation. They out-recruit us because they CHEAT, big time. And big time cheating is what gets 4 & 5*'s to go to Oxford... not Hugh Freeze. Who says Freeze is a great recruiter? Recruits that have been paid?? Magazine/blog writers that base their view from the results of their cheating?? Let's start our own "Network" and sign a couple of back to back top 10 classes and then guess what... people, including most on this thread will then say, "That Mullen has learned how to recruit!" No, he would have learned what it takes to keep up w/ Ole Mess' ace recruiting staff**. Instead he runs a more or less clean program and quite frankly I'd rather have it that way.

[maroonmania]

maybe he was tired of the work it took; maybe it was because he knew he was working for a terrible HC that didn't care. maybe he was just trying to close out his years for state retirement.
all i know is that i have never been more ashamed of our program as i was at that point. i never talked to another MSU coach until the Mullen tenure began....that is telling. and it wasn't because we prevented them from coming by. They just never came at all. or made any other contact. and that was Croom's entire time as HC.

OK, sounds like you are referencing more recent years since he has been back in our football office. Guess I was thinking more back when he was actually coaching and could go out on the road recruiting.

[basedog]

Funny, we are ranked #1 in the nation 4 to 6 weeks, 6 straight bowl games and Dan can't recruit top players. Please.....

As for as Hev, I haven't a clue if he is bad as folks say, I do read he is below average, coaching OL, yes he is at best average.

But saying Dan isn't a good recruiter is ridicules. Seems to be on track as our most successful coach ever.

[HSVDawg]

I can believe the part about Hevesy, but no way I'm buying that we never made a push with AJ until late. We talked to him every day and had him at practice numerous times.

One thing worth mentioning is that high school coaches talk a lot about gossip and innuendo from the world of recruiting. As plugged in as they are, you can still see the case of 2nd and 3rd hand information getting twisted and distorted just like it does on the message boards. For that reason, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt unless it is one of their very own prospects that they happen to be close with.

[MadDawg]

At least Felker was a likeable guy. Hevesy is just an asshole to everyone. And before anyone questions me, I know people that work with him on a daily basis. They spend a good amount of their time apologizing to everyone once he leaves the room.





i am gonna have to disagree with Heavesy being the worst recruiter ever.....the WORST i ever met from any school - bar none - was Rocky Felker. I truly believe that the ONLY decent coaches we had at the time that were also decent recruiters were the TE/special teams guy and Turner. The rest of that entire staff was the worst recruiting staff i have ever had the dishonor of meeting. and it made it all the worse because they were from my alma mater. And yes, Nix (OM) would walk into the school and sit down FOR HOURS and talk to every soph, jr, and sr we had whether they would ever recruit them or not. My HC at the time for our staff never played favorites. he offered the same time to every coaching staff. UT, Ark, OM, and sometimes Bama would do it. The only coach from that staff that showed up was Rocky Felker. He left his card at the front office. didn't want to see anyone. just dropped off his card and a folder. i caught him as he was in the office and tried to chat him up. he had no interest at all in staying. no interest in coming to pick up video, talk to the HC...NOTHING.
Croom may be a great guy, but that was arguably the WORST HC hire in the history of the SEC. almost the entire staff was incompetent or completely in over their head.
----rant over

[SDDawg]

Ole Miss has a Bama type mindset: every toothless hick they have on Twitter wants to contribute $20 to "the cause". They are what they are and what gets done, gets done; no reason to beat that dead horse. They're going to hit some speed bumps/guard rails pretty soon that will set them back a few years, but that has nothing to do with us. We're not going to go that way and I'm fine with it.

On the topic of MSU recruiting, we know that we're not recruiting at the level required to break through and compete for the West across all positions. I won't beat that horse to death either, but it's the same 2 or 3 positions that keep coming up. I thought that we would use the 2014 season as a platform to do that, but we really weren't able to make it happen. All of the talk of incentives aside, that told me all I need to know. I'm a die-hard State fan and I really do like Mullen, but this is where we're going to be for a while until a huge stroke of luck or a major staff change occurs. I'm sure we can improve in some areas, but until there is a new staff and a new commitment to recruiting I don't expect any major leaps or bounds. Not being negative but I think that's realistic. I do expect us to start beating Ole Miss at home again and if Dan is going to be here a while longer he'll need to steal one in Oxford over the next few years as well. They'll be down so it would be a good time to do it.

[Leroy Jenkins]

In order to be the worst wouldn't he have to fall asleep during the visit... and take a shit on the guys couch.

[state66]

I am almost positive its our approach to recruiting kids and our sales pitch. Hugh walks into a recruits door and tells the kids he expects them to play next year and we need you now. Mullen walks in the door and says they are going to have to earn it and only the best players will play. Now thats great and all but if you are the recruit thats always been the best on his teams and you have a coach saying they want you to contribute early as opposed to a coach saying its going to be hard and you have to earn it then where are you going?

[Jack Lambert]

I am almost positive its our approach to recruiting kids and our sales pitch. Hugh walks into a recruits door and tells the kids he expects them to play next year and we need you now. Mullen walks in the door and says they are going to have to earn it and only the best players will play. Now thats great and all but if you are the recruit thats always been the best on his teams and you have a coach saying they want you to contribute early as opposed to a coach saying its going to be hard and you have to earn it then where are you going?

And Then Freeze walks out the door leaving a book bag on the step on his way out with money and note telling him which lawyer is going to be his financial adviser for him and his family.

[Turfdawg67]

And Then Freeze walks out the door leaving a book bag on the step on his way out with money and note telling him which lawyer is going to be his financial adviser for him and his family.

Exactly! And when the kid signs everyone then marvels at what a great recruiter Freeze is. It's not rocket science...

[gtowndawg]

The thing is- we keep hearing the same things over and over. I've not met one person anywhere that said "ya know Mullena and Hevesy are really good recruiters"

That was basically my take away. Personally, this was the closest thing/person I've known that would really know. I even left out some other connections this person has (that would help solidify his knowledge) but I'm not going to add it because it might be easy for some to connect the dots and know who it is. I felt 100% comfortable he didn't have an agenda and was just telling me like it is even though it pained him to admit it.

[gtowndawg]

High school coaches are a bunch of "what's in it for me guys".

I don't know about that. This guy was a regular, down to earth, salt of the earth kind of guy. He threw football with my boys in the pool and was pleasant to speak with.

[Taog Redloh]

maybe he was tired of the work it took; maybe it was because he knew he was working for a terrible HC that didn't care. maybe he was just trying to close out his years for state retirement.
all i know is that i have never been more ashamed of our program as i was at that point. i never talked to another MSU coach until the Mullen tenure began....that is telling. and it wasn't because we prevented them from coming by. They just never came at all. or made any other contact. and that was Croom's entire time as HC.

I don't think Croom thought he could compete. That was the mindset, from the AD on down. They just resigned themselves to the fact that they were going to have to take the grinders who wanted to be at MSU.

That plan in and of itself wasn't terrible......but you HAVE to at least paint your brand favorably and do the minimum, IN ADDITION to having another innovative solution in your repertoire.....Croom did not have that. He ran a disadvantaged scheme as a disadvantaged university.....recipe for 3-9.

[was21]

That corch may have been a red herring...probably a big OM fan

[Taog Redloh]

On the topic of MSU recruiting, we know that we're not recruiting at the level required to break through and compete for the West across all positions. I won't beat that horse to death either, but it's the same 2 or 3 positions that keep coming up. I thought that we would use the 2014 season as a platform to do that, but we really weren't able to make it happen. All of the talk of incentives aside, that told me all I need to know. I'm a die-hard State fan and I really do like Mullen, but this is where we're going to be for a while until a huge stroke of luck or a major staff change occurs. I'm sure we can improve in some areas, but until there is a new staff and a new commitment to recruiting I don't expect any major leaps or bounds.

Man you make GREAT points......considering the point I just made about Croom in another post on this thread....Mullen is sort of the opposite. He runs an advantageous scheme at a disadvantaged school. He also does the bare minimum in recrootin. I also imagine by now he's learned he's not gonna recroot against the big boys. However.....you HAVE to now get innovative in recrootin.

You mention 3 positions. I think you're dead on. Worst offenders are QB and OL, followed by WR. Mullen will take care of QB and WR....that's his forte. I think the innovation needs to come in the OL. That's the position that has held MSU back for YEARS. We need a new plan to remedy this age-old problem.

We can recroot well enough at the other positions IMO. Got to fix the OL, now and forever, consistently. It isn't just a 2015 problem. OL was weak from 2011 to 2013 too, when it started to trend up. Showed weaknesses in 2014 too against the manly DL, though we probably could have overcome it.

[dawgwhisperer]

I coached 28 years and 25 of those were in HS, and you are full of crap to make a blanket statement like that.

I was told at an airport about 4 months back that Hev is an absolute idiot that comes in and runs his big mouth off only to make an idiot of himself. Uses language that drives away most parents and expects people to come to him. I've never talked to the guy 1-1, but when I have been around him, he seems like a tool.

I don't care what his personality is, but I want to know how he doesn't see himself as failing. Whether or not Dan says something to him about his recruiting, can he not tell when we get our tails beat on the line during most SEC games that we need to have a different approach to recruiting lineman?

[ElitedawgRecruiting]

So the take away from this whole thread to me is that this coach hasn't had a kid that was SEC caliber so he is pissed Mullen and Hevesy hasn't offered a kid from his school. Hevesy isn't for everybody that's for sure but there are a large number of high school coaches in Mississippi that want their ego stroked as well as their kids. As much as he isn't a pro MSU guy, Lance Pogue has always been very appreciative of anyone trying to help his kids. Wish they all were that way.

And as far as AJ goes, if it didn't come from Jamie or Ricky, I am not sure I am buying anything a high school coach that wasn't in direct contact with the kid or his coach has to say. It could just possibly be that maybe we saw this situation as Snoop 2.0. I know a lot of coaches that feel that way about him. Including some at Starkville

[Gutter Cobreh]

Maybe some that are plugged in can help me w/ this, but it is my belief that Mullen was looking for his ticket out after last year. Had Richt not gotten the axe at GA, we would have a new head coach as Mullen was off to Miami. If that is the case, you have to think he took his eye off recruiting. When he realized he was going to be here for a little longer, he retooled the staff this off-season to put a larger emphasis on recruiting.

Regardless of whether Hevessy is an idiot, I do think Mullen has stepped up his game and we'll see a greater impact from Buckley, Sirmon, Peterson, etc.

Anyone else have the same thoughts as me regarding Mullen having a foot out the door prior to last season ending?

[confucius say]

Ole Miss has a Bama type mindset: every toothless hick they have on Twitter wants to contribute $20 to "the cause". They are what they are and what gets done, gets done; no reason to beat that dead horse. They're going to hit some speed bumps/guard rails pretty soon that will set them back a few years, but that has nothing to do with us. We're not going to go that way and I'm fine with it.

On the topic of MSU recruiting, we know that we're not recruiting at the level required to break through and compete for the West across all positions. I won't beat that horse to death either, but it's the same 2 or 3 positions that keep coming up. I thought that we would use the 2014 season as a platform to do that, but we really weren't able to make it happen. All of the talk of incentives aside, that told me all I need to know. I'm a die-hard State fan and I really do like Mullen, but this is where we're going to be for a while until a huge stroke of luck or a major staff change occurs. I'm sure we can improve in some areas, but until there is a new staff and a new commitment to recruiting I don't expect any major leaps or bounds. Not being negative but I think that's realistic. I do expect us to start beating Ole Miss at home again and if Dan is going to be here a while longer he'll need to steal one in Oxford over the next few years as well. They'll be down so it would be a good time to do it.

You mean major staff changes like the 7 coaches we just hired, 3 of whom are not on field but solely recruiting positions? Hope it works.

[Taog Redloh]

Maybe some that are plugged in can help me w/ this, but it is my belief that Mullen was looking for his ticket out after last year. Had Richt not gotten the axe at GA, we would have a new head coach as Mullen was off to Miami. If that is the case, you have to think he took his eye off recruiting. When he realized he was going to be here for a little longer, he retooled the staff this off-season to put a larger emphasis on recruiting.

Regardless of whether Hevessy is an idiot, I do think Mullen has stepped up his game and we'll see a greater impact from Buckley, Sirmon, Peterson, etc.

Anyone else have the same thoughts as me regarding Mullen having a foot out the door prior to last season ending?

Probably. But that's a problem at a bunch of schools. Happened back in 2010 too, when I think Mullen was also looking around (like all coaches do). Even Freeze, the hometown Ole Miss boy, flirted with Florida. It happens. And the way I see it, if recrootin suffers THAT much, then they didn't really want to be there anyways.

[Taog Redloh]

You mean major staff changes like the 7 coaches we just hired, 3 of whom are not on field but solely recruiting positions? Hope it works.

I never understood doing things this way because these recrooter coaches are all hired in December (and probably don't help your class too much the following February) and then could all leave in December, thus your recruiting class falls apart, that you worked so hard to assemble.

[SDDawg]

You mean major staff changes like the 7 coaches we just hired, 3 of whom are not on field but solely recruiting positions? Hope it works.

I'm open to that being a solution, but until Dan makes recruiting a bigger priority I'm not sure it will matter for the prospects we really need the most.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Probably. But that's a problem at a bunch of schools. Happened back in 2010 too, when I think Mullen was also looking around (like all coaches do). Even Freeze, the hometown Ole Miss boy, flirted with Florida. It happens. And the way I see it, if recrootin suffers THAT much, then they didn't really want to be there anyways.

I don't begrudge someone from looking around, but to me there was a distinct difference is the attitude around the program. Even if Mullen was looking in 2010, he at the least showed some fire to continue. Last year, it seemed that fire was gone. He seemed "at peace" with riding into the sunset with Prescott. Maybe that was because he wasn't willing to "play ball" like UM or that he needed a change of scenery.

I'll also note that I'm glad I have an avenue to post these thoughts. The last time I verbalized these thoughts, I was in MS for the holidays and my family nearly kicked me out of the house. I try to be more of a realist, yet some of the family are die-hard, cool-aid drinking Mullen lovers. It probably didn't help that I also mentioned I think Mullen has a learning disability, in that he doesn't seem to process information as quickly as he should. When I provided the example of the botched end to the LSU game, I realized I had pushed the envelope a wee bit too far.....

[BossDawg]

It is obvious that AJ Brown required a signing bonus. We don't need to play that game because we don't win that game and we will get busted much faster than OM did.

IF they (UM) skates then, yes, we need to play that game. But I agree as far as the present, we don't need to go there.

[Bubb Rubb]

I can believe the part about Hevesy, but no way I'm buying that we never made a push with AJ until late. We talked to him every day and had him at practice numerous times.

One thing worth mentioning is that high school coaches talk a lot about gossip and innuendo from the world of recruiting. As plugged in as they are, you can still see the case of 2nd and 3rd hand information getting twisted and distorted just like it does on the message boards. For that reason, you have to take what they say with a grain of salt unless it is one of their very own prospects that they happen to be close with.

People forget that these are 17 and 18 year old kids that are very easily manipulated. It doesn't matter if we talked to AJ every day for two years....Freeze and folks like that can get into his ear and spin a story that makes him feel like he wasn't getting love. That's the type of dirty recruiting that will ultimately be their downfall. Remember when they told Richie Brown that they feared for his soul if he signed with State? That's the kind of crap they pull. All it takes is one gullible kid like AJ Brown to buy into it.

[bulldawg28]

I coached 28 years and 25 of those were in HS, and you are full of crap to make a blanket statement like that.

I stick to my statement. Most coaches are wannabes that live vicariously through these kids. If the coach feels a certain way about a school it shows.

[QuadrupleOption]

Reading the initial post, and all the follow-ups, I am inclined to agree to an extent. We definitely need to figure something out on the OL, whether that be recruiting better players for Hevesy, or improving the coaching at that position without him.

But, I'd also like to point out the following:

Last 4 years of Mullen:

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/Commits

Last 4 years of Croom:

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2009-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2007-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2006-Football/Commits

I can definitely see that recruiting HAS improved pretty significantly under Mullen, and during his tenure here he's shown the ability to develop 3 star talent into NFL-caliber players.

So yeah, I'd like to see more highly-rated big uglies signed yearly, but I'm also willing to give Mullen the benefit of the doubt until he has a losing season with the players he's signed.

Building a contender is a process, and one that MSU has never done before in football. I think that continued winning seasons will begin to give us a leg up on getting more and better players to sign with us on a yearly basis. If it doesn't, then we need to form our own Network ASAP and get busy buying players who'll talk to reporters about our beautiful campus or whatever other bullshit we tell them to say.

[Bubb Rubb]

I stick to my statement. Most coaches are wannabes that live vicariously through these kids. If the coach feels a certain way about a school it shows.

It's a ridiculous statement. You may see it with a small number of coaches - particularly a coach at a 6A program with a lot of D1 prospects. The vast majority of programs don't have a lot of big-time prospects and they are happy for the kid wherever he ends up, regardless of their affiliation. Your comment about most coaches being wannabes is especially moronic. You should probably take a break from the internet.

[Taog Redloh]

I don't begrudge someone from looking around, but to me there was a distinct difference is the attitude around the program. Even if Mullen was looking in 2010, he at the least showed some fire to continue. Last year, it seemed that fire was gone. He seemed "at peace" with riding into the sunset with Prescott. Maybe that was because he wasn't willing to "play ball" like UM or that he needed a change of scenery.

I'll also note that I'm glad I have an avenue to post these thoughts. The last time I verbalized these thoughts, I was in MS for the holidays and my family nearly kicked me out of the house. I try to be more of a realist, yet some of the family are die-hard, cool-aid drinking Mullen lovers. It probably didn't help that I also mentioned I think Mullen has a learning disability, in that he doesn't seem to process information as quickly as he should. When I provided the example of the botched end to the LSU game, I realized I had pushed the envelope a wee bit too far.....

Understand. My opinion happens to match yours regarding the bold too. I think Mullen got a case of "Wow, I peaked out and did everything I could and we still fell short". Sort of a shock, to a guy like him who knows how it feels to be on top. Reality gut check I guess.

I'm hoping maybe now he realizes that, while he's doing 90% of the correct things to get MSU to the top, that last 10% needs work. It's pretty obvious that the problem is recruiting on the OL, and maybe another standout here or there. He obviously doesn't think Hevesy is the problem. So I guess we'll see if he finds another solution.

[BrunswickDawg]

Reading the initial post, and all the follow-ups, I am inclined to agree to an extent. We definitely need to figure something out on the OL, whether that be recruiting better players for Hevesy, or improving the coaching at that position without him.

But, I'd also like to point out the following:

Last 4 years of Mullen:

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/Commits

Last 4 years of Croom:

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2009-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2007-Football/Commits

http://mississippistate.247sports.com/Season/2006-Football/Commits

I can definitely see that recruiting HAS improved pretty significantly under Mullen, and during his tenure here he's shown the ability to develop 3 star talent into NFL-caliber players.

So yeah, I'd like to see more highly-rated big uglies signed yearly, but I'm also willing to give Mullen the benefit of the doubt until he has a losing season with the players he's signed.

Building a contender is a process, and one that MSU has never done before in football. I think that continued winning seasons will begin to give us a leg up on getting more and better players to sign with us on a yearly basis. If it doesn't, then we need to form our own Network ASAP and get busy buying players who'll talk to reporters about our beautiful campus or whatever other bullshit we tell them to say.

And right now 247 has us with the #12 class for '17, and Scout has us at #14 - which I am pretty sure would be our highest rankings if they hold (yes I know it is early, yes I know 5*'s wait until late and jumble the rankings). So, if that held, and gets built on in '18 doesn't that mean Mullen & Co. have already made the adjustments this thread is complaining about. (outside of the Hev issue of course).

[gtowndawg]

So the take away from this whole thread to me is that this coach hasn't had a kid that was SEC caliber so he is pissed Mullen and Hevesy hasn't offered a kid from his school. Hevesy isn't for everybody that's for sure but there are a large number of high school coaches in Mississippi that want their ego stroked as well as their kids. As much as he isn't a pro MSU guy, Lance Pogue has always been very appreciative of anyone trying to help his kids. Wish they all were that way.

And as far as AJ goes, if it didn't come from Jamie or Ricky, I am not sure I am buying anything a high school coach that wasn't in direct contact with the kid or his coach has to say. It could just possibly be that maybe we saw this situation as Snoop 2.0. I know a lot of coaches that feel that way about him. Including some at Starkville

But, this coach knows Ricky well and he's had several major recruits over the years. Some of which played at State and two that I would consider GREAT players in my lifetime.

[maroonmania]

It's pretty obvious that the problem is recruiting on the OL, and maybe another standout here or there. He obviously doesn't think Hevesy is the problem. So I guess we'll see if he finds another solution.

Unfortunately, the OL is the cornerstone of most good football teams. There are other team weaknesses that can be masked but you really can't mask a weak OL when you play high level teams. That is why we could not run the ball at all last year and looked like we were totally outclassed when we played a team with an elite DL like Bama and UNM. We can sit here and talk and talk but in my opinion Mullen is not truly serious about winning on a big scale if he is unwilling to replace Hevesy in order to find a guy that can recruit true SEC OL (the type that can contribute more than 1-2 years before they graduate) and be a quality on field coach as well. At this point Mullen places his friendship with Hevesy above his desire to have a championship football team. That's obvious from his lack of holding Hevesy accountable for his position group on the field. Hevesy is probably a decent OL coach but his lack of people skills kill us on the recruiting trail and I would assume often hinder his ability to communicate with the players he has as he should. I will add to say that I do realize that last year's offensive line was worse than anything we have had under Mullen before but I think its fair to say that OL has a fairly persistent issue outside of 2014 when we had a lot of 5th yr SRs starting.

[Taog Redloh]

Unfortunately, the OL is the cornerstone of most good football teams. There are other team weaknesses that can be masked but you really can't mask a weak OL when you play high level teams. That is why we could not run the ball at all last year and looked like we were totally outclassed when we played a team with an elite DL like Bama and UNM. We can sit here and talk and talk but in my opinion Mullen is not truly serious about winning on a big scale if he is unwilling to replace Hevesy in order to find a guy that can recruit true SEC OL (the type that can contribute more than 1-2 years before they graduate) and be a quality on field coach as well. At this point Mullen places his friendship with Hevesy above his desire to have a championship football team. That's obvious from his lack of holding Hevesy accountable for his position group on the field. Hevesy is probably a decent OL coach but his lack of people skills kill us on the recruiting trail and I would assume often hinder his ability to communicate with the players he has as he should.

I think you're right on, man. However, after watching years of watching MSU football, I'm not convinced that our best blueprint is to simply get better players. Mullen is recruiting better than anyone I've seen, and we might be hitting our potential. I've often wondered about some innovative scheme, or some other 'method' of recrootin. I would try maybe having like 2 whole strings of OL, and rotate them out to keep them fresh. They may not be as talented but maybe they could wear the other team out. It would cost us some depth in other places but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Outside the box, in other words. I mean we obviously can't go head to head with Alabama, and we also haven't proven that we can cheat very well. I'm not saying we shouldn't recruit the best guys possible, I'm simply saying we have to close the gap some other way.

[maroonmania]

Mullen is recruiting better than anyone I've seen, and we might be hitting our potential. I've often wondered about some innovative scheme, or some other 'method' of recrootin. I would try maybe having like 2 whole strings of OL, and rotate them out to keep them fresh. They may not be as talented but maybe they could wear the other team out. It would cost us some depth in other places but it's a risk I'm willing to take.


I would agree we are recruiting better in regards to most other areas of the team but I would totally disagree that we are recruiting better on the OL than even some of Mullen's predecessor coaches. Sherrill definitely recruited better on the OL and Croom is probably at least on par with Mullen. Heck, it was Croom that got Sherrod. Mullen and Hev couldn't even reel in the nephew of Johnie Cooks from within the Golden Triangle.

[Bothrops]

Croom got a few highly contested recruits under his watch. But then again, it was before social media was mainstream. Social media was a game changer, and hasn't been a friend to MSU.

[MSUDawg99]

I was told at an airport about 4 months back that Hev is an absolute idiot that comes in and runs his big mouth off only to make an idiot of himself. Uses language that drives away most parents and expects people to come to him. I've never talked to the guy 1-1, but when I have been around him, he seems like a tool.

I don't care what his personality is, but I want to know how he doesn't see himself as failing. Whether or not Dan says something to him about his recruiting, can he not tell when we get our tails beat on the line during most SEC games that we need to have a different approach to recruiting lineman?

I know first hand from the ladies football clinics that he's an ass...even to us females.

[Dawgcentral]

I know first hand from the ladies football clinics that he's an ass...even to us females.
Care to provide details? It's not as though we're causing damage to his reputation here. I've heard crazy stuff about cussing in momma's living room and I'm just trying to wrap my head around how stupid the guy could be.

Didn't believe half of it before because it came along with so much OM bull****.

Doesn't Hevesey recruit running backs also? I would think as " running game coordinator" he might play a role. Maybe RB Mammas don't mind the cuss words so much.

[bulldawg28]

It's a ridiculous statement. You may see it with a small number of coaches - particularly a coach at a 6A program with a lot of D1 prospects. The vast majority of programs don't have a lot of big-time prospects and they are happy for the kid wherever he ends up, regardless of their affiliation. Your comment about most coaches being wannabes is especially moronic. You should probably take a break from the internet.

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings.

[bulldawg28]

Mullen is recruiting and bringing in the same type talent Jackie Sherrill did. The difference is Mullen doesn't take advantage of juco's as much. However, that seems to be changing.

[djaymsu5]

And one thing we need to realize on the recruiting front is that while yes, UNM absolutely is getting some top notch recruits based on the Network and providing impermissible benefits, even if you took all of that away Freeze and staff are still better recruiters than Mullen and crew because Freeze and his bunch eat, sleep and live recruiting while Mullen just doesn't. Freeze absolutely eats up recruiting and loves it and uses every tactical advantage he can dream up, Mullen is not and will never be that way. Mullen only recruits because he has to, not because he wants to.



And that's the main reason he will never win championships whether it's here nor there. All good coaches know you HAVE to recruit in order to win big. 2014 was an exception not the norm so I wouldn't expect that again for a while. Especially the way we are lacking in OLine talent. We got lucky that year and had some veteran walkons and other guys that actually panned out. Howland even said "recruiting is the lifeblood of any program." Mullen can catch some slack for not recruiting as hard as a head coach cause he has assistants do the job for him but Hevesy being an assistant cannot half ass it and expect to pick up big time talent at his position.

[Taog Redloh]

Mullen is recruiting and bringing in the same type talent Jackie Sherrill did. The difference is Mullen doesn't take advantage of juco's as much. However, that seems to be changing.

This might have to do with the loophole that the SEC closed. But yeah, it still seems like we SHOULD have a leg up with MS JUCOs, just due to proximity.

[SDDawg]

Not to derail this thread, but Freeze has a couple of criminally stupid guys out on the trail. You don't hear as much about them because the backpacks cover up for it, but recruits like Simmons and others have seen it first hand. I'll put it that way. I think we can all agree that coaching as a profession brings out an interesting mix of people and while some of them are effective at their jobs, their personalities and people skills can leave some things to be desired. Different strokes for different folks and all.

[HSVDawg]

People forget that these are 17 and 18 year old kids that are very easily manipulated. It doesn't matter if we talked to AJ every day for two years....Freeze and folks like that can get into his ear and spin a story that makes him feel like he wasn't getting love. That's the type of dirty recruiting that will ultimately be their downfall. Remember when they told Richie Brown that they feared for his soul if he signed with State? That's the kind of crap they pull. All it takes is one gullible kid like AJ Brown to buy into it.

I totally get what you are saying. And to that end, it lends even more credence that you can't take a high school coach's word as the gospel about how any given kid's recruitment played out.

[bulldawg28]

I totally get what you are saying. And to that end, it lends even more credence that you can't take a high school coach's word as the gospel about how any given kid's recruitment played out.

Exactly. Preach! A real coach in it for the kids would step up and tell the kids the truth. Mullen shoots it straight with coaches and players and it rubs them the wrong way.