"When it comes to the academic issue, how do you believe Ole Miss compares to UNC?"

[blacklistedbully]

Today I was asked the following by another Rivals poster:

"When it comes to the academic issue, how do you believe Ole Miss compares to UNC? Based on how the NCAA dealt with UNC, how do you think they should treat Ole Miss?"

I think they're good questions, so I pass the questions on to our board. What say you guys?

Here's my initial take and reply:

Though I admittedly don't keep close tabs on UNC, it is my understanding that UNC is still being investigated, and the case/punishments are not complete. I think people are jumping-the-shark on UNC right now.

What I have known for quite some time about Ole Miss, and what is finally becoming common knowledge, is that Ole Miss set up a massive academic fraud program that's main purpose was to get highly-sought-after, but academically ineligible recruits qualified to play at OM.

Through David Saunders, they set up a relationship with an ACT tester in Waynesboro, MS, and instructed kids they sent there to leave any questions they didn't know blank, so they could be filled in for them by the tester.

I've also heard in some cases, they arranged for other kids to pose as those players and take the exam for them. Some Ole Miss players traveled over 2 or 3 hours each way to this testing facility, when they could have taken the exam within 30 minutes of their own home. Why?

I think both UNC and Ole Miss should get hammered. Not sure what's going to happen with OM, but I do know they have successfully manipulated these kind of things in the past. But this time, they went out-of-state and stole kids from powerful programs. Since the Tunsil stuff hit-the-fan, they are now having to deal with more than just the Ole Miss controlled Clarion Ledger newspaper.

They can no longer count on a media cover-up for them. It will be interesting to see how the NCAA responds. Common sense would lead one to think the NCAA would be annoyed as hell with the ridiculously small penalties Ole Miss is proposing.

Now let's take a look at the David Saunders/Hugh Freeze affiliation. We already have established beyond doubt that Saunders set up the academic fraud program through a relationship he cultivated with Waynesboro, MS ACT exam administrator Ginny Crager.

If you look at Saunders bio, you'll find his first job in Mississippi was at Ole Miss, as the, "Assistant to the Athletics Director for Recruiting and Coordinator of High School and Community College Relations (1998-2002). In fact, Saunders only other jobs in Mississippi were a brief stint at Millsaps College (2003-2005), and 2 more times at Ole Miss (2006 & 2010).

Funny, but prior to his 5-year initial stint at Ole Miss, Saunders worked at 5 different schools the previous 8 years. I think we can all make an educated guess when and where Saunders made his Mississippi ACT connection, and set up the academic fraud program.

So, Saunders at Ole Miss from '98 - '02, then Millsaps from '03-'05 (where they must have learned his, "special talent" wasn't actual coaching), then his next job is back at Ole Miss for a year in 2006. Guess who was Ole Miss Recruiting Coordinator from 2006 - 2007?

Why, none other than Hugh Freeze. While Saunders was ostensibly hired to be, "LB Coach", I think most can figure out why he was really hired for 1 year. Ole Miss (and Hugh Freeze) knew from his previous 5-year stint what his, "specialty" was.

Don't think Hugh Freeze was connected enough as RC to know about Saunders and the academic fraud? Well, he was connected enough to assume the interim HC position when Orgeron was fired in 2008, and was connected enough to be one of the two finalist for OC when Houston Nutt took over.

What are the odds Freeze is truly innocent and unaware of the cheating program Saunders set up and ran at Ole Miss? What are the odds Freeze did not know about Saunders and his program when Freeze was the RC the year Saunders was hired back the 2nd time?

Does anyone really believe Hugh Freeze never questioned why some of his recruits were cancelling their ACT exams near their home town so they could instead take it at a specific place 3 hours or more drive away?

David Saunders, he of the 8-year show cause, has been employed more than once by only one school.....Ole Miss, and they hired him on 3 separate occasions, including again in 2010. Saunders got busted at ULL, in large part because of the academic fraud he had going with the Mississippi ACT testing place...a program he obviously set up while at Ole Miss. Where had Saunders been employed prior to ULL? 3 of his previous 4 jobs had been at Ole Miss.

There has for decades been a culture at Ole Miss that encourages a, "win at all costs" mentality that breeds institutional cheating. Some of their most prominent and politically-connected boosters have actually gone to prison for bribery and fraud, yet remain among the boosters with the most influence and access to the Athletic Department.

Do I think Ole Miss is going to get hammered? If there is any justice and/or if the NCAA has any balls left at all, they will be. I think they'll get whacked pretty good this time, but worse when the 2nd investigation that is now ongoing runs it's course.

[Reason2succeed]

When recruiting wouldn't it be standard for a coach to ask where a certain player was academically in terms of getting cleared? Of course. How does Saunders magically get all these guys cleared without anyone around him asking "how did you do that"?

I think that the NCAA might notice that Saunders worked at OM on three separate occasions and was heavily involved with their recruiting.

If the NCAA doesn't destroy them then it is over for the facade of amateurism in collegiate sports.

[Dawgowar]

Will say this again because it is an important detail

UNC had roughly 3000 students, 50% of which were athletes, (courses was offered for athletes but available to all) offered as an online course - with no attendance, actual work or tests, and unknown to the Department head for multiple years. The NCAA initially had this listed as 'ACADEMIC FRAUD'. They later knocked it down to 'INDUCEMENT' - a lower level charge.

UNM has a handful of Gridiron Warrior Poet Scholars allegedly get the 'Think and Do, Scratch and Sniff' Version of the ACT. I would think a multi-year course that did not exist would be clear FRAUD by definition? No, inducement for that but the UNM ACT piece remains Academic Fraud.

Multiple Administrations/AD's/Staffs/Head Coaches/Sports and all that jazz over years and year - remains Academic fraud. I maintain I will be happy if round I eliminates what equates to a full recruiting class of players. Anything on round 1 beyond 18-20 would be off the chart.

Assuming Round II happens that could really leave a mark.

[Jack Lambert]

I think the UNC guys could actually get into school. The fake classes set up was only to help with GPA. Ole Miss cheated to get dumb asses in.

[RocketDawg]

One thing that makes the UNC debacle seem worse is that UNC has a reputation as one of the outstanding academic institutions in the country. Is that real? I don't know. I thought it was, but their version of academic fraud for athletes certainly gives one pause. A person can lose a lot of respect for an institution when something like that happens. It's not exactly a parallel to UMiss because they have no such reputation.

But I can't help but wondering ... the entrance criteria at UMiss (And MSU too, I guess because of the court ruling that's been mentioned) include an ACT score of only 16 (or the SAT equivalent). Now realistically .... if an incoming student can't make a 16 composite or better on the ACT, do you really want him? As a football player, they might not even have the capability of learning the plays, let alone having any desire or even the capability to attend and pass college level classes. Crap, you can probably make a 16 just by guessing or filling in the circles in random order.

I guess the answer to my question is yes, schools do want those "students" because of braun and athletic capability, particularly in football and basketball (as a counter, I saw a list of athletes a few days ago that listed high achievers among MSU athletes ... some even had a 4.0 ... but they were members of the golf team tennis, and other minor sports). If I was in charge of a school, I wouldn't want them though. I suppose it's a matter of priorities.

When I was at MSU in the '60s, all students had to take something called the English Proficiency Exam, I think at the beginning of their junior year. It involved being given a broad subject, and having to write (in longhand ... no computers then) a 500 word essay on the subject. Really pretty simple for a college student. It was graded by a committee from the English Department, and if you failed, you had to take something irreverently referred to as "Bonehead English". Not sure if they do such a "dastardly" thing now ... I'd guess not.

Semi-rant over. :)