FREDI FIRED!!

[BrunswickDawg]

Braves fire Fredi!! Thank goodness!!

[msstate7]

Yay!

[starkvegasdawg]

Mullen to the Braves.

[shoeless joe]

No surprise. Now what direction do they go?

[starkvegasdawg]

No surprise. Now what direction do they go?

They are on pace for a 39 win season. Anybody would be an improvement.

[War Machine Dawg]

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[War Machine Dawg]

No surprise. Now what direction do they go?

Looking like an interim. Top two names right now are Pendleton and Snitker at AAA. Eddie Perez could be a darkhorse. Long term, the top name is Bud Black.

[Saltydog]

nt

[Political Hack]

Late to my own party!

Merged.

[parabrave]

Only 3 years too late.

[Really Clark?]

Snitker is named interim manager

[Bubb Rubb]

Braves fire Fredi!! Thank goodness!!

I understand the excitement since the Braves suck. But how can anyone hold him accountable with that shitshow of a roster he has? It's Freddie Freeman and a whole bunch of scrubs. No manager can win with that to work with.

[JoseBrown]

Mullen to the Braves.

Ah shit, here we go again****

[preachermatt83]

Ned Yost would be my first call.

[msstate7]

Snitker is named interim manager

I like this

[Brando]

I understand the excitement since the Braves suck. But how can anyone hold him accountable with that shitshow of a roster he has? It's Freddie Freeman and a whole bunch of scrubs. No manager can win with that to work with.

I agree, but he had a decent roster and still couldnt do shit in the past. As some were stating, this was his last yr regardless. I didnt see him staying with them rebuilding like they are.

[Bubb Rubb]

Ned Yost would be my first call.

So Ned Yost would leave his post with the Kansas City Royals to come manage that trainwreck? You sound like Ole Miss fans pining for Tony Dungy when they fired Nutt.

[BrunswickDawg]

I understand the excitement since the Braves suck. But how can anyone hold him accountable with that shitshow of a roster he has? It's Freddie Freeman and a whole bunch of scrubs. No manager can win with that to work with.
It is less about this year than the collective body of work. I would have fired him after the collapse in 2014.

[msstate7]

I understand the excitement since the Braves suck. But how can anyone hold him accountable with that shitshow of a roster he has? It's Freddie Freeman and a whole bunch of scrubs. No manager can win with that to work with.

Watch the games and you'll see...

Last weekend, he started frenchy in RF with perhaps the best defensive OF in mlb (inciarte) in LF. Fredi started Kelly Johnson at 2b with Gordon beckham at 3b.... Now neither are good players at this point in their careers, but they should be just the opposite. Fredi is an idiot and always has been

[Bubb Rubb]

It is less about this year than the collective body of work. I would have fired him after the collapse in 2014.

That's a fairer assessment. I just think when you look at this year in a silo, it's hard to hold him accountable. I mean, I know they are rebuilding ahead of the new ballpark, but they didn't have to trade away EVERYONE. They got rid of some really good, relatively young talent that they could still build around (Simmons, Shelby Miller, Heyward, etc.).

[Really Clark?]

I understand the excitement since the Braves suck. But how can anyone hold him accountable with that shitshow of a roster he has? It's Freddie Freeman and a whole bunch of scrubs. No manager can win with that to work with.

I agree to an extent. But Fredi has probably cost us 5-6 games with just bad bullpen decisions. 15-16 wins and we are still a last place team but not the worse team in the league and on pace to lose over 100 games.

[MetEdDawg]

I agree, but he had a decent roster and still couldnt do shit in the past. As some were stating, this was his last yr regardless. I didnt see him staying with them rebuilding like they are.

I wasn't as hard as some on Fredi, but this year is terrible. Luck should get you to a better record than 9-28. That's just terrible. But we are the epitome of a team trying to rebuild and yes it's difficult to blame it all on Fredi. But I think we needed some new blood and we will finally get a chance to do that.

Whoever said Ned Yost read my mind. He might like to come back to Atlanta and I think he would get us to where we need to be. I really hope it's not Pendleton. I wouldn't mind Eddie Perez. Knows the organization and I think he would be a great fit.

[JoseBrown]

I like Eddie Perez too. He knows the game very well. Players like him. Organization likes him. He prob won't get it, but it wouldn't bother me at all.

[Really Clark?]

That's a fairer assessment. I just think when you look at this year in a silo, it's hard to hold him accountable. I mean, I know they are rebuilding ahead of the new ballpark, but they didn't have to trade away EVERYONE. They got rid of some really good, relatively young talent that they could still build around (Simmons, Shelby Miller, Heyward, etc.).

I actually thought the Heyward trade was the right move. He wasn't going to sign with the Braves and honestly I think many in the league overvalue his defensive work to overcome his weak bat as a RF.

[Brando]

**NEWS REPORT per CL ** Hugh Freeze has already turned down the Atlanta Braves head coahcing job due to him already having his dream job and too much sin in Atlanta. My sources indicate he was the leading candidate in replacing Fredi***

[Bubb Rubb]

Watch the games and you'll see...

Last weekend, he started frenchy in RF with perhaps the best defensive OF in mlb (inciarte) in LF. Fredi started Kelly Johnson at 2b with Gordon beckham at 3b.... Now neither are good players at this point in their careers, but they should be just the opposite. Fredi is an idiot and always has been

Francouer has a better arm - typically what you want in RF. And calling Inciarte the best defensive outfielder in baseball is a pretty big stretch - but sounds like something a Brave homer would say...you've been listening to Chip Caray too much. Kelly Johnson's natural position is 2B - most of his starts in his 11 years have been there - Beckham is more of a utility infielder.

I think it's fair to question the guy but I think you're nitpicking.

[msstate7]

I actually thought the Heyward trade was the right move. He wasn't going to sign with the Braves and honestly I think many in the league overvalue his defensive work to overcome his weak bat as a RF.

The heyward move has led to Jenkins, Swanson, Blair, and inciarte... It was a great move looking back

[msstate7]

Francouer has a better arm - typically what you want in RF. And calling Inciarte the best defensive outfielder in baseball is a pretty big stretch - but sounds like something a Brave homer would say...you've been listening to Chip Caray too much. Kelly Johnson's natural position is 2B - most of his starts in his 11 years have been there - Beckham is more of a utility infielder.

I think it's fair to question the guy but I think you're nitpicking.

Last year, jhey dWAR was 2.0. Inciarte was 2.6. Andrelton Simmons led mlb with 3.5.

Oops... Kiermaier (tb) led mlb in dWAR at 5.0 (wow). Ender inciarte was the 2nd best outfielder at 2.6. Sorry, he's the 2nd best outfielder defensively

[BrunswickDawg]

I actually thought the Heyward trade was the right move. He wasn't going to sign with the Braves and honestly I think many in the league overvalue his defensive work to overcome his weak bat as a RF.
Go look at what Heyward is doing in Chitown. That was one move I was glad to see.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think the moves are just beginning. Snit will be a great bridge manager and knows the minor league players and how to prep guys for the future. If they are about to start mass call ups, he will be the right guy to have in place for the rest of the season. I do agree that Eddie taking a larger role as 3B coach is a good move too (they just announced that). I'm not sold on Bud Black - but if they make TP manager it will be Fredi part deux.

[Really Clark?]

Go look at what Heyward is doing in Chitown. That was one move I was glad to see.

And for only $182 MIL. I like Markakis at his salary a whole lot more than Heyward at his.

[Really Clark?]

I think the moves are just beginning. Snit will be a great bridge manager and knows the minor league players and how to prep guys for the future. If they are about to start mass call ups, he will be the right guy to have in place for the rest of the season. I do agree that Eddie taking a larger role as 3B coach is a good move too (they just announced that). I'm not sold on Bud Black - but if they make TP manager it will be Fredi part deux.

I thought Eddie is taking over 1st base coach and TP moving to bench coach because they fired Tosca as well? Marty Reed is new bullpen coach.

[BrunswickDawg]

I thought Eddie is taking over 1st base coach and TP moving to bench coach because they fired Tosca as well? Marty Reed is new bullpen coach.
Yeah, your right. Misread it. I thought TP was still 3B, forgot they had moved him previously.

[smootness]

That's a fairer assessment. I just think when you look at this year in a silo, it's hard to hold him accountable. I mean, I know they are rebuilding ahead of the new ballpark, but they didn't have to trade away EVERYONE. They got rid of some really good, relatively young talent that they could still build around (Simmons, Shelby Miller, Heyward, etc.).

First, people aren't excited because they think the losing this year is due to Fredi. It's because Fredi is and always has been terrible. Simple as that.

Second, we only got Shelby Miller because we traded Heyward, and we were about to lose Heyward for nothing anyway. And Simmons is really good defensively and really terrible offensively.

[smootness]

I think it's fair to question the guy but I think you're nitpicking.

It is not nitpicking to suggest that putting Francoeur in RF when you have Inciarte in LF is really stupid. It just is. And he actually doesn't even have a better arm than Inciarte.

[msstate7]

It is not nitpicking to suggest that putting Francoeur in RF when you have Inciarte in LF is really stupid. It just is. And he actually doesn't even have a better arm than Inciarte.

Inciarte has 3 assists despite missing 3 weeks or so. His arm is good

[Bubb Rubb]

It is not nitpicking to suggest that putting Francoeur in RF when you have Inciarte in LF is really stupid. It just is. And he actually doesn't even have a better arm than Inciarte.

I'm not necessarily defending Gonzalez because I don't really care one way or the other. I think his biggest challenges were with how he used his bullpen, which someone else alluded to already. But stuff like this is worthy of debate. Maybe Inciarte is more comfortable in left or center? He has exactly zero starts in RF this year, and much fewer starts there than the other OF positions over his career. There are usually reasons why guys are playing certain positions, and there are lots of smart baseball guys around the manager that contribute to the decisions being made. As far as the debate over who has the better arm, that's a matter of opinion. As a neutral observer, I don't see Inciarte at the defensive level you guys are making him out to be. His career dWAR is good, but so far this year he is off to a pretty slow start (0.6). He also barely hits enough to stay on the field. Unless Francoeur has had major surgery recently, or is dealing with an arm injury, he has traditionally had one of the better arms in the game for a while (his arm is about the only thing he brings to the table - he otherwise stinks).

[Bubb Rubb]

Inciarte has 3 assists despite missing 3 weeks or so. His arm is good

Curtis Granderson also has 3 assists despite being a pretty bad defensive RF at this point in his career, with a very weak arm. Number of assists don't always tell the story - It could just be that they took advantage of some really stupid baserunning.

[msstate7]

I'm not necessarily defending Gonzalez because I don't really care one way or the other. I think his biggest challenges were with how he used his bullpen, which someone else alluded to already. But stuff like this is worthy of debate. Maybe Inciarte is more comfortable in left or center? He has exactly zero starts in RF this year, and much fewer starts there than the other OF positions over his career. There are usually reasons why guys are playing certain positions, and there are lots of smart baseball guys around the manager that contribute to the decisions being made. As far as the debate over who has the better arm, that's a matter of opinion. As a neutral observer, I don't see Inciarte at the defensive level you guys are making him out to be. His career dWAR is good, but so far this year he is off to a pretty slow start (0.6). He also barely hits enough to stay on the field. Unless Francoeur has had major surgery recently, or is dealing with an arm injury, he has traditionally had one of the better arms in the game for a while (his arm is about the only thing he brings to the table - he otherwise stinks).

What if I told you nick Ahmed leads mlb in dWAR right now with 1.0? 0.6 for inciarte despite missing 3 weeks is very damn impressive

[shoeless joe]

I'm not necessarily defending Gonzalez because I don't really care one way or the other. I think his biggest challenges were with how he used his bullpen, which someone else alluded to already. But stuff like this is worthy of debate. Maybe Inciarte is more comfortable in left or center? He has exactly zero starts in RF this year, and much fewer starts there than the other OF positions over his career. There are usually reasons why guys are playing certain positions, and there are lots of smart baseball guys around the manager that contribute to the decisions being made. As far as the debate over who has the better arm, that's a matter of opinion. As a neutral observer, I don't see Inciarte at the defensive level you guys are making him out to be. His career dWAR is good, but so far this year he is off to a pretty slow start (0.6). He also barely hits enough to stay on the field. Unless Francoeur has had major surgery recently, or is dealing with an arm injury, he has traditionally had one of the better arms in the game for a while (his arm is about the only thing he brings to the table - he otherwise stinks).

I tend to agree.

I respect mstate7's opinion when it comes to the braves because he's as big a fan as I used to be, but there's so much more to managing a group of players other than looking at a stat or even a group of stats. Feel has a lot to do with great managers being great. Now if you want to argue that that is what fredi lacked then I would agree.

Traits I want to see in the new manager that I feel fredi didn't have:
1) intensity
2) accountability of player behavior (maintaining the professionalism that the braves have held since the 90s)
3) defending the player no matter what (Bobby's greatest strength)

[Really Clark?]

Good points on Incartie. I do think his bat will come around after missing time because of his hamstring. In his 2 previous MLB years he has had worse first half splits and May is his worse month hitting for his career. However, he has hit .312 for the second half of the season over the last 2 seasons. Also, he has hit RHP very well over his career and that is where he is struggling right now. I think that will turn around sooner than later and he will end up around his career avg of .280

[Bubb Rubb]

What if I told you nick Ahmed leads mlb in dWAR right now with 1.0? 0.6 for inciarte despite missing 3 weeks is very damn impressive

Well first of all, dWAR is for games played, so it doesn't matter that he's missed three weeks so far. He's a fine defensive player, and he will improve the number as the season progresses. I just think you're overvaluing his defense. I get it - you're a Braves fan. But let's pump the brakes before we give him the gold glove.

I am reminded of a few years ago, during David Wright's first or second year, I was watching the Braves play and Chip Caray introduced David Wright as "The Mets version of Jeff Francoeur." He meant it as a compliment - he was talking about how special Jeff Francoeur was. Looking back on it, that's a ridiculous statement. And that's what this reminds me of.

[Bubb Rubb]

Good points on Incartie. I do think his bat will come around after missing time because of his hamstring. In his 2 previous MLB years he has had worse first half splits and May is his worse month hitting for his career. However, he has hit .312 for the second half of the season over the last 2 seasons. Also, he has hit RHP very well over his career and that is where he is struggling right now. I think that will turn around sooner than later and he will end up around his career avg of .280

His career OPS is pretty bad for a corner outfielder.

[msstate7]

I tend to agree.

I respect mstate7's opinion when it comes to the braves because he's as big a fan as I used to be, but there's so much more to managing a group of players other than looking at a stat or even a group of stats. Feel has a lot to do with great managers being great. Now if you want to argue that that is what fredi lacked then I would agree.

Traits I want to see in the new manager that I feel fredi didn't have:
1) intensity
2) accountability of player behavior (maintaining the professionalism that the braves have held since the 90s)
3) defending the player no matter what (Bobby's greatest strength)

I think with my emotions way too much when it comes to the braves. Take my opinion with a grain of salt most the time, but I do watch every game and I feel I have an informed opinion anyway. I think the guy to listen to the most on here is smootness. He's much more even keel than me and very informed

[Bubb Rubb]

I think with my emotions way too much when it comes to the braves. Take my opinion with a grain of salt most the time, but I do watch every game and I feel I have an informed opinion anyway. I think the guy to listen to the most on here is smootness. He's much more even keel than me and very informed

I watch the Braves play quite a bit too. I watch a lot of baseball and like to think I can be pretty neutral about it all. I thought Fredi had some serious shortcomings, but starting Inciarte in left is probably the least of them. I still think it's borderline harsh to hold him accountable for the team's record this year, but if it wipes the slate clean and energizes some of the young guys, maybe it will pay off.

[msstate7]

Well first of all, dWAR is for games played, so it doesn't matter that he's missed three weeks so far. He's a fine defensive player, and he will improve the number as the season progresses. I just think you're overvaluing his defense. I get it - you're a Braves fan. But let's pump the brakes before we give him the gold glove.

I am reminded of a few years ago, during David Wright's first or second year, I was watching the Braves play and Chip Caray introduced David Wright as "The Mets version of Jeff Francoeur." He meant it as a compliment - he was talking about how special Jeff Francoeur was. Looking back on it, that's a ridiculous statement. And that's what this reminds me of.

Ok, lets say I am overvaluing inciarte's defense. Let's look at frenchy's dWAR for the year... It's -0.1. Now do you want an elite defender or a negative defender?

[msstate7]

BTW, did you watch Friday's night game with frenchy in RF? Error right off the bat and as poor of an attempt to throw out a runner at home as you'll see... Despite that, Fredi stuck with him all weekend.

[Bubb Rubb]

Ok, lets say I am overvaluing inciarte's defense. Let's look at frenchy's dWAR for the year... It's -0.1. Now do you want an elite defender or a negative defender?

I didn't say Francoeur was better than Inciarte. I said he had a better arm. Inciarte may be faster, may get a better jump, may have a better glove.

We are splitting hairs anyway. Markakis is your RF. Inciarte usually gets time ahead of Francoeur in left, and that's how it should be. My point is that I don't have a problem with Francoeur in right if they spell Markakis because he has a better arm.

[msstate7]

I watch the Braves play quite a bit too. I watch a lot of baseball and like to think I can be pretty neutral about it all. I thought Fredi had some serious shortcomings, but starting Inciarte in left is probably the least of them. I still think it's borderline harsh to hold him accountable for the team's record this year, but if it wipes the slate clean and energizes some of the young guys, maybe it will pay off.

And that was just an example of fredi's incompetence. I would've fired him after he completely run our bullpen in the ground enroute to the biggest September collapse maybe ever a few years back. Not going to Kimbrel vs Dodgers in playoffs was another example of Fredi being Fredi

[msstate7]

I didn't say Francoeur was better than Inciarte. I said he had a better arm. Inciarte may be faster, may get a better jump, may have a better glove.

We are splitting hairs anyway. Markakis is your RF. Inciarte usually gets time ahead of Francoeur in left, and that's how it should be. My point is that I don't have a problem with Francoeur in right if they spell Markakis because he has a better arm.

I would go inciarte in cf, mallex in LF, and Markakis in RF or inciarte in RF, mallex in cf, and Markakis is LF if I were in charge

[Really Clark?]

His career OPS is pretty bad for a corner outfielder.

But I don't think he is a true corner OF. He is a CF/LF with good speed and is a contact hitter. If I fault him it's going to be getting walks. I think with age and plate discipline that can get better. I was not talking about his hitting as a corner OF as much as disagreeing that where he is right now is the type of hitter he truly is. Regardless of defensive position.

[Bubb Rubb]

But I don't think he is a true corner OF. He is a CF/LF with good speed and is a contact hitter. If I fault him it's going to be getting walks. I think with age and plate discipline that can get better. I was not talking about his hitting as a corner OF as much as disagreeing that where he is right now is the type of hitter he truly is. Regardless of defensive position.

Well, if his season OPS was at his career average right now, it would put him at 15th in baseball among center fielders today. Edited to add: he would also be around 15th among leftfielders, too.

I agree that lack of walks is his biggest issue. His OBP isn't very good.

[msstate7]

Well, if his season OPS was at his career average right now, it would put him at 15th in baseball among center fielders today. Edited to add: he would also be around 15th among leftfielders, too.

I agree that lack of walks is his biggest issue. His OBP isn't very good.

He was a 5.3 WAR player last year and he's 25 years old. I think you're severely undervaluing him

[BrunswickDawg]

I watch the Braves play quite a bit too. I watch a lot of baseball and like to think I can be pretty neutral about it all. I thought Fredi had some serious shortcomings, but starting Inciarte in left is probably the least of them. I still think it's borderline harsh to hold him accountable for the team's record this year, but if it wipes the slate clean and energizes some of the young guys, maybe it will pay off.
I really think this was a dead man walking situation. I think the only reason Fredi wasn't fired after last season is they knew this year would be rough, so why change when you knew you would after this season? The problem is that Fredi's shortcomings were magnified by the overall lack of talent on the roster. That's why I think this will be the first move of many. Fredi was not going to be able to nurture young talent, Snitker will. I think you'll see a bunch of call ups soon - too much good talent knocking on the door already, and it can't get any worse.

[smootness]

Well first of all, dWAR is for games played, so it doesn't matter that he's missed three weeks so far. He's a fine defensive player, and he will improve the number as the season progresses. I just think you're overvaluing his defense. I get it - you're a Braves fan. But let's pump the brakes before we give him the gold glove.

I am reminded of a few years ago, during David Wright's first or second year, I was watching the Braves play and Chip Caray introduced David Wright as "The Mets version of Jeff Francoeur." He meant it as a compliment - he was talking about how special Jeff Francoeur was. Looking back on it, that's a ridiculous statement. And that's what this reminds me of.

You don't undersand dWAR. It is a cumulative stat. 0.6 dWAR in 12 games is absolutely insane...it projects to 8 dWAR over an entire season. You're using a stat that shows that Inciarte has been unbelievable defensively and trying to use it to say that he hasn't been that great.

[Really Clark?]

Well, if his season OPS was at his career average right now, it would put him at 15th in baseball among center fielders today. Edited to add: he would also be around 15th among leftfielders, too.

I agree that lack of walks is his biggest issue. His OBP isn't very good.

And that goes back to where his numbers should look much different by seasons end and looking closer to his avg. Right now he is struggling and against RHP mainly. Just think that changes significantly over the coming months.

And btw, I really didn't have a problem with Francoer in RF, at least for a game or so. He spent 2 1/2 years playing at KC and it's definitely a pitchers park as far as HR and a pretty big OF. KC also had 2 LHB and a switch hitter in the lineup against a RHP. Match up wise, familiarity of the OF, etc. I was ok with Fri night at least

[Bubb Rubb]

He was a 5.3 WAR player last year and he's 25 years old. I think you're severely undervaluing him

which lands him in 27th place. He's a fine player.

You're jumping to conclusions. I didn't say he was bad. I said you were overvaluing his defense. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

[msstate7]

And that goes back to where his numbers should look much different by seasons end and looking closer to his avg. Right now he is struggling and against RHP mainly. Just think that changes significantly over the coming months.

And btw, I really didn't have a problem with Francoer in RF, at least for a game or so. He spent 2 1/2 years playing at KC and it's definitely a pitchers park as far as HR and a pretty big OF. KC also had 2 LHB and a switch hitter in the lineup against a RHP. Match up wise, familiarity of the OF, etc. I was ok with Fri night at least

That's a fair point, but inciarte is better in any outfield anytime

[msstate7]

which lands him in 27th place. He's a fine player.

You're jumping to conclusions. I didn't say he was bad. I said you were overvaluing his defense. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

27th place regardless of position, which put him ahead of Chris Davis, Miguel Cabrera, Nelson Cruz, Dee Gordon, deGrom, etc

[smootness]

which lands him in 27th place. He's a fine player.

You're jumping to conclusions. I didn't say he was bad. I said you were overvaluing his defense. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over it.

27th best player in all of baseball? So yes, you are undervaluing him.

[Really Clark?]

That's a fair point, but inciarte is better in any outfield anytime

Don't disagree. Just if you are going to DH Markakis at KC, Francoeur in RF against a predominate RH lineup against Terehan, and where Francoeur had some of his better years and is familiar with a big OF, I just don't have that big of a problem with it. At least for a game.

[smootness]

Don't disagree. Just if you are going to DH Markakis at KC, Francoeur in RF against a predominate RH lineup against Terehan, and where Francoeur had some of his better years and is familiar with a big OF, I just don't have that big of a problem with it. At least for a game.

I do.

[msstate7]

Speaking of dWAR... I knew mallex has been good so far, but he's 0.9. Ahmed is leading the nl with 1.0. I watched mallex at Mississippi and he wasn't this good. Really interested to see if mallex can keep this up.

[Really Clark?]

I do.

Fair enough but putting Francoeur in LF does what? There were more balls hit to Incartie LF and Smith in CF than RF although KC did scatter the hits to the OF in that game pretty evenly. Anyway, like I said earlier Fredi lost a lot more games this year because of bullpen decisions than starting OF's in a particular game. At least 5 games we should have won from just those decisions alone.

[preachermatt83]

So Ned Yost would leave his post with the Kansas City Royals to come manage that trainwreck? You sound like Ole Miss fans pining for Tony Dungy when they fired Nutt.

He LOVES Atlanta and the Braves.

[preachermatt83]

He LOVES Atlanta and the Braves.

He has said that his time in Atlanta as 3B coach was some of the most enjoyable baseball he's ever been a part of.

[Bubb Rubb]

Don't disagree. Just if you are going to DH Markakis at KC, Francoeur in RF against a predominate RH lineup against Terehan, and where Francoeur had some of his better years and is familiar with a big OF, I just don't have that big of a problem with it. At least for a game.

I'm saying basically the same thing - because most of the time this is moot - Markakis is usually the RF. This whole thing started because playing Francoeur in RF and Inciarte in LF was cited as a valid excuse for firing Gonzalez. Inciarte is a good player - somehow my words are being twisted into me saying he sucks. He doesn't suck. I didn't agree with the comment that he was "among the best defensive OF in the game" because that's absurd to say. That statement is overvaluing him defensively. Anyone who argues that point is just being a homer. Objectivity is not a bad thing.

It's also absurd to say he should just be thrown out into RF. He hasn't played as much RF. This isn't little league where these guys play all positions. He's a LF/CF (probably should be the everyday CF), and Francoeur is a natural RF. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Bubb Rubb]

He LOVES Atlanta and the Braves.

I'm sure he loves Kansas City and his world series ring, too.

[msstate7]

I'm saying basically the same thing - because most of the time this is moot - Markakis is usually the RF. This whole thing started because playing Francoeur in RF and Inciarte in LF was cited as a valid excuse for firing Gonzalez. Inciarte is a good player - somehow my words are being twisted into me saying he sucks. He doesn't suck. I didn't agree with the comment that he was "among the best defensive OF in the game" because that's absurd to say. That statement is overvaluing him defensively. Anyone who argues that point is just being a homer. Objectivity is not a bad thing.

It's also absurd to say he should just be thrown out into RF. He hasn't played as much RF. This isn't little league where these guys play all positions. He's a LF/CF (probably should be the everyday CF), and Francoeur is a natural RF. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

dWAR says inciarte was the 2nd best defensive outfielder in mlb last year. What are you basing that he isn't among the best defensive outfielders in the game on?

[msstate7]

I'm saying basically the same thing - because most of the time this is moot - Markakis is usually the RF. This whole thing started because playing Francoeur in RF and Inciarte in LF was cited as a valid excuse for firing Gonzalez. Inciarte is a good player - somehow my words are being twisted into me saying he sucks. He doesn't suck. I didn't agree with the comment that he was "among the best defensive OF in the game" because that's absurd to say. That statement is overvaluing him defensively. Anyone who argues that point is just being a homer. Objectivity is not a bad thing.

It's also absurd to say he should just be thrown out into RF. He hasn't played as much RF. This isn't little league where these guys play all positions. He's a LF/CF (probably should be the everyday CF), and Francoeur is a natural RF. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Inciarte played RF last year for the dbacks

[Bubb Rubb]

dWAR says inciarte was the 2nd best defensive outfielder in mlb last year. What are you basing that he isn't among the best defensive outfielders in the game on?

Watching him with my eyes. He's good. If I'm drafting an all-defense team, he's not on it.

[Bubb Rubb]

Inciarte played RF last year for the dbacks

I acknowledged that earlier. He played more CF and LF.

[msstate7]

I acknowledged that earlier. He played more CF and LF.

You also said "this isn't little league". I think playing RF for the dbacks says he can do it.

BTW, if your eyes say frenchy is a better option in RF, I wouldn't trust them.

Our RF defense is terrible. Markakis is -0.1 dWAR

[Bubb Rubb]

You also said "this isn't little league". I think playing RF for the dbacks says he can do it.

BTW, if your eyes say frenchy is a better option in RF, I wouldn't trust them.

Our RF defense is terrible. Markakis is -0.1 dWAR

It is rare for every day players to flip flop positions. 4th and 5th outfielders will do it in utility roles, but that doesn't mean they are consistently good at all positions. There is a reason he has played less RF than the other positions. I don't know the reason and neither do you, but that mystery is something you should take into account when you bitch about him not playing RF.

If your coaches thought he was a better option in RF than others, he would be playing there. Maybe your new manager will put him out there and that will make you happy.

I didn't say Francoeur was a better option. I said he had a better arm. Maybe that's the reason he was out there. You are again putting words in my mouth.

[msstate7]

It is rare for every day players to flip flop positions. 4th and 5th outfielders will do it in utility roles, but that doesn't mean they are consistently good at all positions. There is a reason he has played less RF than the other positions. I don't know the reason and neither do you, but that mystery is something you should take into account when you bitch about him not playing RF.

If your coaches thought he was a better option in RF than others, he would be playing there. Maybe your new manager will put him out there and that will make you happy.

I didn't say Francoeur was a better option. I said he had a better arm. Maybe that's the reason he was out there. You are again putting words in my mouth.

I'm certainly interested in how the braves handle the outfield going forward. I would love to get someone to trade for Markakis. I would love to get an extended look at mallex in cf and inciarte in RF. If both can keep their defense at the level they've played so far, we could go get a big bat for LF with no concern over defense.