Game of Thrones

[DanDority]

Sorry, I haven't read all the the GoT thread, but am I the only one who has lost interest in the show? It seems to be going in a very strange route killing off all my favorite characters, I haven't read the books so maybe that's why I so confused but I just don't like how the show is going.
p.s. "I was a big Ned Stark fan" so maybe that first season was the down fall for me haha...

[engie]

Keep watching. Yes, it gets worse before it gets better. But IMO thusfar they have always replaced the dead characters with even more interesting characters for the most part.

[War Machine Dawg]

My advice: Watch and catch up, but don't get too attached to characters. Enjoy the overall story. No one is ever safe and can die, so if you're watching for a particular character, you could wind up being disappointed. Dive into the conspiracy theories instead.

[DanDority]

Thanks for the reply's guys, I've been watching from the beginning and tried to get into the story, however, I'm not sure I like how it's going. With that said, I don't like the mother of dragons character and would love to see her get killed but with the nature of the current political climate I'd bet she comes out on top. I guess that's where I'm going. with my thinking.

[engie]

She's a little too obviously on top a little too far ahead of the end game IMO. She has a role to play, but there will be unforeseen hardships almost certainly. She could actually probably conquer Westeros just with the army she now has.

So, you are currently caught all the way up and have seen all episodes then? Season 5 felt like the bleakest point to me. Had they gone further down that rabbit hole, I might have agreed with you. This season is the swing season that I thought last year was going to be(when it was initially supposed to be 7 seasons, 70 hours overall).

Now is the first sure time since early in Robb's campaign that I actually like where it's going and feel like I'm going to finally get some true "victories" which will probably come at great cost, as is the theme of the show.

Keep in mind that the final book in the series(the one the creators of the show are using the cliff notes on to make these final 19 remaining episodes) was initially called A Time For Wolves back when GRRM intended it as a trilogy.

[DanDority]

She's a little too obviously on top a little too far ahead of the end game IMO. She has a role to play, but there will be unforeseen hardships almost certainly. She could actually probably conquer Westeros just with the army she now has.

So, you are currently caught all the way up and have seen all episodes then? Season 5 felt like the bleakest point to me. Had they gone further down that rabbit hole, I might have agreed with you. This season is the swing season that I thought last year was going to be(when it was initially supposed to be 7 seasons, 70 hours overall).

Now is the first sure time since early in Robb's campaign that I actually like where it's going and feel like I'm going to finally get some true "victories" which will probably come at great cost, as is the theme of the show.

Keep in mind that the final book in the series(the one the creators of the show are using the cliff notes on to make these final 19 remaining episodes) was initially called A Time For Wolves back when GRRM intended it as a trilogy.

10-4, engie I'm with you. Yes, I've seen every single episode. I do agree last season was terrible and hard to watch. This season I've begun to hate every time I see the young Stark girl in Bravos. I just don't see where they are going to take her in the show.

[engie]

Pretty sure she will be reuniting with Chekhov's wolf(Nymeria, her direwolf, which was the true alpha of the family) in the Riverlands just in time for Lord Walder to celebrate his latest wedding... Should happen episode 8-9...

I agree. Her story in Braavos has been a drag for a long time now.

[Tbonewannabe]

As the guys from Southpark would say, Arya could have used a montage'. She could have been trained up in one episode and be killing folks by now.

Not sure if anyone wants to look it up but there was a redditor post that outlined most stuff happening this season. I read it but I am not putting it on here just in case it is true and it is major spoilers. It got some traction because part of the post has been right on so far.

I wonder if the Iron bank comes into play at any time. At this point in the book, the Iron bank is making its presence felt of course they were backing Stannis also but in the show that wouldn't go anywhere now.

[BulldogDX55]

Hold the door :(

[SheltonChoked]

Holy shit. That's all I got after tonight.

[Tbonewannabe]

I have to rewatch it since my mother in law talked through the whole episode. Hodor, Summer, and the child of the forest going down was a lot of stuff happening. I think Little finger is manipulating Sansa to go to the Riverlands. I think he knew she would send Brienne and she is going to be in the middle of the siege.

[Dawgology]

Hold the door :(

Just damn. That was good.

[War Machine Dawg]

Hold the door. Ho. Lee. Shit.

Sad to see so many people go down to protect Bran: Hodor, Brynden/Raven, several Children, and Summer. Summer pisses me off the most. Seriously, Bran isn't THAT important. But I'm guessing that's the point. And how the hell are Meera and Bran going to survive alone in the unknown North in the middle of winter? Bran can't do anything for himself and can no longer warg into Summer for hunting food.

I think Littlefinger is genuinely sorry he ****ed up so badly with Sansa and wants to help her. The problem, as always, is he has what's best for Littlefinger in mind. Littlefinger always looks out for Littlefinger first and foremost. He's definitely planted the seeds for a wedge between Sansa and Jon. Hoping she doesn't fall for it, but it certainly seems she's at least considering the possibility Jon won't remain loyal.

I'm guessing the new Stark forces tip the balance of an ongoing siege at River Run in favor of Blackfish.

Arya's about to be a boss. Be patient, it's coming. They just trained her senses, now they're training her in the practicalities: fighting, weapons, stealth, actual assassinations, etc. I have no idea how the Faceless Men play into the endgame.

Going to be really interesting to see what happens at Mereen when Dany & the Dothraki Horde show up. Methinks she isn't going to like this new Peace Accord.

Tormund and Brienne....lol

TOJ II next week?

[mcain31]

"The Door" is probably the best episode of the series so far. I think Benjen comes back next episode to save Bran and Meera. I hope that Meera has Dark Sister with her

[War Machine Dawg]

"The Door" is probably the best episode of the series so far. I think Benjen comes back next episode to save Bran and Meera. I hope that Meera has Dark Sister with her

Not a chance. I thought last week's was better. And season 3 episode 9 with the Red Wedding. Maybe even season 1 episode 9 when Ned loses his head.

[archdog]

Great episode. Now that they are not held back by GRRM, the show is putting the players in position for the end game.

[War Machine Dawg]

Come over to Bovine Scat, we've got a running thread discussing GoT over there.

[Tbonewannabe]

I wonder what Bran will do when he sees a Hodor wight? Especially since Hodor's entire life was screwed specifically because of Bran. Just 2 direwolves left, Ghost and Nymeria. I am going to be pissed if something happens to Ghost. I wonder if they even bring Nymeria back into the picture since Arya isn't linked to her like in the books. I really thought reading the books that the direwolves were going to be more than pets but the show is definitely leaning that way.

[archdog]

Spoilers Spoilers






Cold Hands is going to help Bran back to the wall. Question is, does his new connection to the "Nights King" help the WW get past the wall if Bran goes south of the wall.
I have lost interest in Arya pretty much all together.
Jon, Sansa, and crew will get their army together.
Bran will need to find a weirwood tree to plug back into the network.
King's Landing has pretty much became a footnote in the overall story. The king isn't the king of anything anymore. Zero power. I am surprised someone hasn't challenged him for rule directly yet.
Dany will return to Mareen to get her people and meet up with the Iron Island people to head to westeros after she frees her dragons to wreck havac on folks.
Jorah will find a cure from a Rholor priest giving himself a glowing left arm and will assume the role of Victarion.
Dorne will show up and join the bad poosey gang with Dany.

Upcoming forces
Dany will have the Dathraki, Unsullied, Dorne, the Golden Company, and the Iron Islands. --(Sea Superiority)
Lanisters will have High Garden, the Tarly's, and their own forces. -- (Money)
Bolton has the Karstarks, Frey's, Umbers (maybe)
Sansa/Jon has the wildlings, Dun Dun, the rest of the northern houses including the Manderly's, the Craggonmen, Mormonts, and Mountain Clans, Tully forces, and the Arryns. and the brotherhood without banners and Arya when she comes home. --(Advantage Blackfish)
Bran has Jon's twin sister Meera and either Benjen or Coldhands. Hopefully Bran finds a few living wildlings to help as well. (Can see the past, warg people etc.)

So there is where the chess pieces sit.

[Tbonewannabe]

Spoilers Spoilers






Cold Hands is going to help Bran back to the wall. Question is, does his new connection to the "Nights King" help the WW get past the wall if Bran goes south of the wall.
I have lost interest in Arya pretty much all together.
Jon, Sansa, and crew will get their army together.
Bran will need to find a weirwood tree to plug back into the network.
King's Landing has pretty much became a footnote in the overall story. The king isn't the king of anything anymore. Zero power. I am surprised someone hasn't challenged him for rule directly yet.
Dany will return to Mareen to get her people and meet up with the Iron Island people to head to westeros after she frees her dragons to wreck havac on folks.
Jorah will find a cure from a Rholor priest giving himself a glowing left arm and will assume the role of Victarion.
Dorne will show up and join the bad poosey gang with Dany.

Upcoming forces
Dany will have the Dathraki, Unsullied, Dorne, the Golden Company, and the Iron Islands. --(Sea Superiority)
Lanisters will have High Garden, the Tarly's, and their own forces. -- (Money)
Bolton has the Karstarks, Frey's, Umbers (maybe)
Sansa/Jon has the wildlings, Dun Dun, the rest of the northern houses including the Manderly's, the Craggonmen, Mormonts, and Mountain Clans, Tully forces, and the Arryns. and the brotherhood without banners and Arya when she comes home. --(Advantage Blackfish)
Bran has Jon's twin sister Meera and either Benjen or Coldhands. Hopefully Bran finds a few living wildlings to help as well. (Can see the past, warg people etc.)

So there is where the chess pieces sit.

If Cold Hands does help Bran, I hope we get some kind of explanation on who he is and why he is helping. GRRM seems to have reasons for things like Hodor but there are so many loose ends it will be hard to make them all mean something. Still one Lannister kid to get a golden shroud like the fortune teller told Cersei so that will happen. When Tommen goes down then I guess Margery becomes Queen. It would be interesting if there was a War of the 5 Queens. Sansa Queen of the North, Elaria Queen of Dorne, Margery Queen of Westeros, Asha Queen of the Iron Islands, and Dany Queen of the Dragons.

I wonder how Arya is used to impact the story as a whole. Does Arya assassinate Tommen or Cersei? Several people still left on her list and when she gets back with Jon and Sansa is she damaged beyond repair? She has been getting brainwashed into a girl with No Name for a while now so if she leaves does she remember to pick up needle where she hid it?

So many questions, I don't know if 1 1/2 seasons are enough to rap it all up.

[War Machine Dawg]

I wonder what Bran will do when he sees a Hodor wight? Especially since Hodor's entire life was screwed specifically because of Bran. Just 2 direwolves left, Ghost and Nymeria. I am going to be pissed if something happens to Ghost. I wonder if they even bring Nymeria back into the picture since Arya isn't linked to her like in the books. I really thought reading the books that the direwolves were going to be more than pets but the show is definitely leaning that way.

As engie and I have been saying, you can no longer take anything that happens in the show as an indication of what will happen in the books. They've diverged in completely different directions. It's explicitly clear that the direwolves are avatars of the Stark children in the books. They do seem to be nothing more than pets in the show. Also of note: Euron wins the crown with the Dragon Horn in the books. He won it with nothing more than a speech Sunday night. Theon is nowhere near the kingsmoot in the books. No Victarion at all in the show. Stannis is still alive in the books. Roose is the f'n boss in the books and is always a step ahead of Ramsey. I could go on and on with the differences.

They're going to get to roughly the same endgame, but you just can't compare the books and the show anymore. They're completely different now.

[War Machine Dawg]

And right on cue, here's a link where the producers say the show and the books are significantly different (http://comicbook.com/2016/05/24/game-of-thrones-ending-to-include-big-shocking-moment/).

[BulldogBear]

As engie and I have been saying, you can no longer take anything that happens in the show as an indication of what will happen in the books. They've diverged in completely different directions. It's explicitly clear that the direwolves are avatars of the Stark children in the books. They do seem to be nothing more than pets in the show. Also of note: Euron wins the crown with the Dragon Horn in the books. He won it with nothing more than a speech Sunday night. Theon is nowhere near the kingsmoot in the books. No Victarion at all in the show. Stannis is still alive in the books. Roose is the f'n boss in the books and is always a step ahead of Ramsey. I could go on and on with the differences.

They're going to get to roughly the same endgame, but you just can't compare the books and the show anymore. They're completely different now.

Screw GRRM for letting this happen. I'm still not watching but hard not to see a thought or two here and there. IDK, if there's no announcement of TWOW by the time the DVD comes out I might watch it. Still pissed right now.

Because the show is such an aberration right now, most of my book theories are still intact. Since you mention Theon at the kingsmoot, I still think in the books Theon is going to kill Euron like a boss and rule the Ironborn when all is said and done, probably bringing them to the "right" side of the final battle, which I believe is going to be pretty simple actually. I believe the endgame is going to be those that wish to destroy mankind vs. those who wishes to save it (what I'm calling the "right" side) and not everyone will realize they're really on the wrong side, at least not till it's too late (I think a good example will be Dany and her Dragons, who will melt the wall and let the Others thru).


And right on cue, here's a link where the producers say the show and the books are significantly different (http://comicbook.com/2016/05/24/game-of-thrones-ending-to-include-big-shocking-moment/).

It's been so long since I gave it much thought so off the cuff I don't remember how it fits in, but since we mention Euron, I believe that Daario is more than what he seems and is either Euron or Benjen incognito. The timeline of East/West is sometimes funny and hard to be sure there aren't large gaps. In a book, when characters don't really know what other characters may look like you can get away with this sort of thing. I don't believe there would have been any reason for Jorah or Barriston to recognize Euron, and depending on Jorah, maybe not Benjen either.

[DanDority]

As engie and I have been saying, you can no longer take anything that happens in the show as an indication of what will happen in the books. They've diverged in completely different directions. It's explicitly clear that the direwolves are avatars of the Stark children in the books. They do seem to be nothing more than pets in the show. Also of note: Euron wins the crown with the Dragon Horn in the books. He won it with nothing more than a speech Sunday night. Theon is nowhere near the kingsmoot in the books. No Victarion at all in the show. Stannis is still alive in the books. Roose is the f'n boss in the books and is always a step ahead of Ramsey. I could go on and on with the differences.

They're going to get to roughly the same endgame, but you just can't compare the books and the show anymore. They're completely different now.
And to the point that I was getting at in my op, this is why I see it a political push by the left. Danny will most likely win the Game on the show, with help from former slaves and a true transgender in lord Varas.

[War Machine Dawg]

Screw GRRM for letting this happen. I'm still not watching but hard not to see a thought or two here and there. IDK, if there's no announcement of TWOW by the time the DVD comes out I might watch it. Still pissed right now.

Because the show is such an aberration right now, most of my book theories are still intact. Since you mention Theon at the kingsmoot, I still think in the books Theon is going to kill Euron like a boss and rule the Ironborn when all is said and done, probably bringing them to the "right" side of the final battle, which I believe is going to be pretty simple actually. I believe the endgame is going to be those that wish to destroy mankind vs. those who wishes to save it (what I'm calling the "right" side) and not everyone will realize they're really on the wrong side, at least not till it's too late (I think a good example will be Dany and her Dragons, who will melt the wall and let the Others thru).

It's been so long since I gave it much thought so off the cuff I don't remember how it fits in, but since we mention Euron, I believe that Daario is more than what he seems and is either Euron or Benjen incognito. The timeline of East/West is sometimes funny and hard to be sure there aren't large gaps. In a book, when characters don't really know what other characters may look like you can get away with this sort of thing. I don't believe there would have been any reason for Jorah or Barriston to recognize Euron, and depending on Jorah, maybe not Benjen either.

Man, I feel your frustration. But just go ahead and start watching again. The article I linked mentioned TWOW won't be released in '16, meaning it'll be at least '17. And the way GRRM goes, it could be '18 or '20. The producers have made it really clear there will still be plenty of surprises for people who are reading the books.

I wouldn't be surprised if Daario is Benjen. The most "out there" theory on Daario is that it's actually Ned Stark. I tend to think that's wishful thinking, but how epic would that be? BTW, am I the only one who isn't a fan of the recast Daario?

[Tbonewannabe]

Man, I feel your frustration. But just go ahead and start watching again. The article I linked mentioned TWOW won't be released in '16, meaning it'll be at least '17. And the way GRRM goes, it could be '18 or '20. The producers have made it really clear there will still be plenty of surprises for people who are reading the books.

I wouldn't be surprised if Daario is Benjen. The most "out there" theory on Daario is that it's actually Ned Stark. I tend to think that's wishful thinking, but how epic would that be? BTW, am I the only one who isn't a fan of the recast Daario?

I don't think aario (because he gave the D to Danerys) is Benjen. I think Benjen has been doing recon on the White Walkers and is going to give insight on where they are from. I just don't know how they would do some kind of twist like that and it make sense.

[msstatelp1]

I don't think aario (because he gave the D to Danerys) is Benjen. I think Benjen has been doing recon on the White Walkers and is going to give insight on where they are from. I just don't know how they would do some kind of twist like that and it make sense.

I believe Benjen became Coldhands in the book. You don't see much (if any) of him in the series but he's the one that saved Sam, Gilly, and the baby after they left Craster's. He also guides Bran, Hodor, Meera, and Jojen to the Three-eyed Crow. In the book, it's a Three-eyed Crow, not a Three-eyed Raven.

[BulldogBear]

I believe Benjen became Coldhands in the book. You don't see much (if any) of him in the series but he's the one that saved Sam, Gilly, and the baby after they left Craster's. He also guides Bran, Hodor, Meera, and Jojen to the Three-eyed Crow. In the book, it's a Three-eyed Crow, not a Three-eyed Raven.

I get the impression Coldhands has been around a lot longer than since the time Uncle Benjen went missing. I'm thinking he is the Nights King.

[mcain31]

I believe Benjen became Coldhands in the book. You don't see much (if any) of him in the series but he's the one that saved Sam, Gilly, and the baby after they left Craster's. He also guides Bran, Hodor, Meera, and Jojen to the Three-eyed Crow. In the book, it's a Three-eyed Crow, not a Three-eyed Raven.

GRRM has stated that Benjen is not Coldhands in the books. I think Benjen will be rescuing Bran and Meera this week. I don't believe that there will be a Coldhands in the show. Benjen was mentioned in the first episode of this season.

[mcain31]

If Cold Hands does help Bran, I hope we get some kind of explanation on who he is and why he is helping. GRRM seems to have reasons for things like Hodor but there are so many loose ends it will be hard to make them all mean something. Still one Lannister kid to get a golden shroud like the fortune teller told Cersei so that will happen. When Tommen goes down then I guess Margery becomes Queen. It would be interesting if there was a War of the 5 Queens. Sansa Queen of the North, Elaria Queen of Dorne, Margery Queen of Westeros, Asha Queen of the Iron Islands, and Dany Queen of the Dragons.

I wonder how Arya is used to impact the story as a whole. Does Arya assassinate Tommen or Cersei? Several people still left on her list and when she gets back with Jon and Sansa is she damaged beyond repair? She has been getting brainwashed into a girl with No Name for a while now so if she leaves does she remember to pick up needle where she hid it?

So many questions, I don't know if 1 1/2 seasons are enough to rap it all up.

With Tommen being the recognized King, Jaime is his heir. Jaime is his closest male relative.

[Tbonewannabe]

With Tommen being the recognized King, Jaime is his heir. Jaime is his closest male relative.

As Captain of the Kingsguard, he swore an oath to hold no land or title. He mentioned the fact when Tywin wanted him to go back and rule Casterly Rock. He said that was the only oath he hadn't broken so it was important to him. I don't think Jamie would want it unless Cersie talked him into just being her puppet. What would kick ass is if Gendry rowed down the Blackwater to King's Landing and became king as the last Baratheon living. Of course he is a bastard so he basically has no right to the throne. It wouldn't surprise me if Dorne works with the Tyrells to overthrow the Lannisters and in the middle of this Dany shows up with the Kalesar and 3 Dragons ready to fight. The shit will be going down and news hits that the White Walkers are invading Westeros.

[mcain31]

Jaime may not have wanted Casterly Rock then. Jaime would have lost all 3 of his children. That type of grief changes any person

[greenbean]

I'm pulling for the white walkers!

[Tbonewannabe]

I'm pulling for the white walkers!

That is like being on Team Negan.

[Tbonewannabe]

GRRM has stated that Benjen is not Coldhands in the books. I think Benjen will be rescuing Bran and Meera this week. I don't believe that there will be a Coldhands in the show. Benjen was mentioned in the first episode of this season.

So they made Benjen into Coldhands. GRRM has said he wasn't in the book but you never can tell if that is still true or if they changed it for the show. Mostly boring episode. Arya getting needle back was the best thing this week. Hopefully it is a sign that she is done with Bravos.

[mcain31]

We might get Lady Stoneheart this season. Thoros of Myr is back this season for a hanging scene.

[War Machine Dawg]

We might get Lady Stoneheart this season. Thoros of Myr is back this season for a hanging scene.

Unless they completely lied, the producers said after Season 3 there would be no Stoneheart.

[War Machine Dawg]

I thought the best part of the episode was Dany's speech at the end. And her control over Drogon. Things about to get real now that she has the baddest army in the story following her. She's arguably the most natural leader of everyone in the story, including Jon.

Sam taking Heartsbane was cool. He's finally grown a pair. And they're gonna need all the Valyrian steel they can find when the Walkers arrive.

Benjen returning was predictable but satisfying. Now he's gotta help Bran learn to control his powers. Aren't we due one more TOJ flashback?

Is it wrong I was hoping for a walk of atonement from Margaery? I have no idea what the High Sparrow and Tommen are up to.

[Tbonewannabe]

I thought the best part of the episode was Dany's speech at the end. And her control over Drogon. Things about to get real now that she has the baddest army in the story following her. She's arguably the most natural leader of everyone in the story, including Jon.

Sam taking Heartsbane was cool. He's finally grown a pair. And they're gonna need all the Valyrian steel they can find when the Walkers arrive.

Benjen returning was predictable but satisfying. Now he's gotta help Bran learn to control his powers. Aren't we due one more TOJ flashback?

Is it wrong I was hoping for a walk of atonement from Margaery? I have no idea what the High Sparrow and Tommen are up to.

Pretty much everyone would have appreciated it. I am interested to see if Benjen hangs around after getting Bran to the Wall. I loved that Sam said screw it, we need this sword but I am interested what the ramifications will be. I think he can talk to his little brother into letting him get away but if his dad finds them they are screwed.

I wonder what Margarey's angle is? She is playing the game just like the High Sparrow.

[BeardoMSU]

Is it wrong I was hoping for a walk of atonement from Margaery?

http://i0.wp.com/geekshizzle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Sexy-Natalie-Dormer-Picture-Gallery-GIF-4.gif
http://i0.wp.com/geekshizzle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Sexy-Natalie-Dormer-Picture-Gallery-GIF-10.gif?resize=610%2C341
http://img.pandawhale.com/116457-Natalie-Dormer-hot-poke-gif-sc-hBdl.gif
http://guyspeed.com/files/2014/04/Natalie-Dormer-5.gif
http://i.imgur.com/9131fa6.gif

[mcain31]

I thought the best part of the episode was Dany's speech at the end. And her control over Drogon. Things about to get real now that she has the baddest army in the story following her. She's arguably the most natural leader of everyone in the story, including Jon.

Sam taking Heartsbane was cool. He's finally grown a pair. And they're gonna need all the Valyrian steel they can find when the Walkers arrive.

Benjen returning was predictable but satisfying. Now he's gotta help Bran learn to control his powers. Aren't we due one more TOJ flashback?

Is it wrong I was hoping for a walk of atonement from Margaery? I have no idea what the High Sparrow and Tommen are up to.

Dany's speech seemed manufactured to me. I don't think that she is a natural leader. There is something missing from her eyes. I'm probably being too tough on her though.

We will get the rest of the TOJ I believe.

We were all hoping to watch Natalie walk

[BoomBoom]

So they made Benjen into Coldhands. GRRM has said he wasn't in the book but you never can tell if that is still true or if they changed it for the show. Mostly boring episode. Arya getting needle back was the best thing this week. Hopefully it is a sign that she is done with Bravos.

I wonder if this was what GRRM was referring to when he spoke of a character dead on the show but not in the books.

[Dallas_Dawg]

Pretty weak episode tonight except for seeing the Hound again.
Arya got what she knew was coming. Something tells me she survives though.

[tcdog70]

Pretty weak episode tonight except for seeing the Hound again.
Arya got what she knew was coming. Something tells me she survives though.

Don't think that was Arya. we will see.

[Dallas_Dawg]

Don't think that was Arya. we will see.

What are you saying? Please elaborate

[War Machine Dawg]

I enjoyed last night's episode. But it was definitely mostly a plot episode to set up what should be an action packed final 3 episodes. Jon, Sansa, and Davos go crootin'. Jaime takes control of the Blackwater seige in time for the Stark forces to show up, which will make it harder for the Starks. Hints that Margaery is indeed playing a larger game with the High Sparrow.

Best Moments:
Lady Mormont - She's awesome and hilarious. Which means she'll die next week.
Return of The Hound - He's back and he's gonna be pissed. Kinda sad they killed off Ian McShane's character so soon. He was the coolest priest ever.
Arya - Holy shit! Or was it a Faceless Man? Was the assassination sanctioned or did the bitch go rogue?
Bronn - Funniest line of the night in his first episode back: "Don't say it! Don't ****ing say it."

[Tbonewannabe]

I look forward to Arya winding up her time in Bravos. Lady Mormot was badass. So was Sansa writing to Littlefinger for the Knights of the Vale? Manderlays have to come at some point. I am also ready for Kingslanding to wrap up. They announced 7 episodes for next year so will there be a season 8?

[BeardoMSU]

Lady Mormont - She's awesome and hilarious. Which means she'll die next week. Damn, you're probably right. She kicked ass though.
Return of The Hound - He's back and he's gonna be pissed. Kinda sad they killed off Ian McShane's character so soon. He was the coolest priest ever.
Since I heard he was cast, I've been waiting on him to show up all season. His character was short-lived, but very good. Sucks he only lasted that one episode.
Arya - Holy shit! Or was it a Faceless Man? Was the assassination sanctioned or did the bitch go rogue?
Bronn - Funniest line of the night in his first episode back: "Don't say it! Don't ****ing say it. I thought his funniest line was "if we were an enemy, we'd be ****in' you in the ass right now", lol. Classic Bronn.

[War Machine Dawg]

Lady Mormont - She's awesome and hilarious. Which means she'll die next week. Damn, you're probably right. She kicked ass though.
Return of The Hound - He's back and he's gonna be pissed. Kinda sad they killed off Ian McShane's character so soon. He was the coolest priest ever.
Since I heard he was cast, I've been waiting on him to show up all season. His character was short-lived, but very good. Sucks he only lasted that one episode.
Arya - Holy shit! Or was it a Faceless Man? Was the assassination sanctioned or did the bitch go rogue?
Bronn - Funniest line of the night in his first episode back: "Don't say it! Don't ****ing say it. I thought his funniest line was "if we were an enemy, we'd be ****in' you in the ass right now", lol. Classic Bronn.

LOL, that one was good too. He had a bunch of good lines. I just thought "Don't say it" was funnier because of Bronn's extensive history with Tyrion and how often Tyrion used the phrase. It was a nice callback moment.

[BeardoMSU]

LOL, that one was good too. He had a bunch of good lines. I just thought "Don't say it" was funnier because of Bronn's extensive history with Tyrion and how often Tyrion used the phrase. It was a nice callback moment.

Yeah, good point.

[mcain31]

Arya - Holy shit! Or was it a Faceless Man? Was the assassination sanctioned or did the bitch go rogue?
I'd say the waif went rogue. Stomach wounds are agonizing and slow ways to die

[War Machine Dawg]

I'd say the waif went rogue. Stomach wounds are agonizing and slow ways to die

This is my guess, too. Who even knows Arya is alive to put out a hit on her?

[msstate7]

Glad that girl without a name is dead

[Tbonewannabe]

Finally Arya is going to do something. I can't wait to see the bastard brawl. Anyone have a clue what Cersi is up to?

[mcain31]

Is Tommen the "valanquar"?

[War Machine Dawg]

Is Tommen the "valanquar"?

No, that's The Hound.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Why do you think that? I'm starting to think its Tommen myself. He also just signed his own death wish. Cersei is going to be found guilty of incest, Tommen will be a bastard and not the king, Sparrow will overthrow him

[Tbonewannabe]

Why do you think that? I'm starting to think its Tommen myself. He also just signed his own death wish. Cersei is going to be found guilty of incest, Tommen will be a bastard and not the king, Sparrow will overthrow him

I actually never thought of the Sparrow overthrowing Tommen to become king. I don't think it would work because the Lannisters would go to war and the Faith don't have the ability to fight a real army. I think the High Sparrow will find a way to get rid of Cersi without losing his Tommen puppet on the throne. It is obvious that right now Tommen will do whatever the Sparrow tells him to do.

I think Cersi found out something about the Sparrow that she is going to use at the trial.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Before the Lannisters can go to war Tommen is going to die somehow. When he dies Cersei is going to burn down Kings Landing. I think when she asked Qyburn about those rumors that it was about all the wildfire the Mad King hid underneath Kings Landing. Tommen dies, Cersei burns everything to the ground.

[Tbonewannabe]

Before the Lannisters can go to war Tommen is going to die somehow. When he dies Cersei is going to burn down Kings Landing. I think when she asked Qyburn about those rumors that it was about all the wildfire the Mad King hid underneath Kings Landing. Tommen dies, Cersei burns everything to the ground.

I think you are right. I read somewhere that you one of Bran's visions was the Sept burning so that makes sense. If Tommen dies then who is king? I think the High Sparrow is worried that Tommen will die without a heir so he would lose his influence hence him telling Margery to get busy.

[Uncle Ruckus]

I have no idea who would be king. I think the Sparrow's plan is for Tommen to be stripped of his kingship since he's not really Roberts child and with the church and kingdom being combined it would give power to him. He's playing the long con here. Acts like he doesn't want anything except to worship the gods, but he's actually playing everyone and is about to be at the top of the damn food chain. None of it will matter though because Cersei is going to burn him alive before she dies. The Mountain may do it. He's going to turn someone into a puddle of goo, it's just a matter of time

[War Machine Dawg]

Why do you think that? I'm starting to think its Tommen myself. He also just signed his own death wish. Cersei is going to be found guilty of incest, Tommen will be a bastard and not the king, Sparrow will overthrow him

Here is a list of candidates. (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Valonqar/Theories) I think it's The Hound because whoever kills Cersei is going to have to take out The Mountain/Robert Strong. No one on that list is bad enough to do that except The Hound. And they've pretty much hinted from the start that Hound & Mountain are going to fight at some point. He's also The Mountain's "little brother," which fits the prophecy.

[BulldogBear]

Here is a list of candidates. (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Valonqar/Theories) I think it's The Hound because whoever kills Cersei is going to have to take out The Mountain/Robert Strong. No one on that list is bad enough to do that except The Hound. And they've pretty much hinted from the start that Hound & Mountain are going to fight at some point. He's also The Mountain's "little brother," which fits the prophecy.

You know of course that I've been sold on the Hound for some time.

Oh, and don't forget...screw GRRM

[Uncle Ruckus]

Yeah, but the whole valonqar prophecy is book only. I'm 99% sure Maggy never said anything about the Volanqar in the show. With it being left out I don't think they are going to incorporate it into the tv series, but let her kill herself or die in some other fashion. I do think that there's a good chance that a trial by combat between the two will happen in the books, but the Hound is headed north with the BWB to help Jon against the WW's in the show. He's not going anywhere near KL and the Mountain isn't leaving KL.

[Tbonewannabe]

So maybe Cersi sets Kings Landing on fire and Jamie is there to kill her before she burns to death.

[rolodawg]

Does anyone not think we are about to see Lady Stoneheart (Catelyn Stark)? With Dondarrion and his red priest making a re-appearance, she is with them in the book....The Hound, Lady Stoneheart, Men Without Banners, and somehow Ayra fixing to meet up and head north.

[War Machine Dawg]

Does anyone not think we are about to see Lady Stoneheart (Catelyn Stark)? With Dondarrion and his red priest making a re-appearance, she is with them in the book....The Hound, Lady Stoneheart, Men Without Banners, and somehow Ayra fixing to meet up and head north.

How many times do we have to answer this? The producers have said repeatedly that Catelyn is completely dead in the show and will not be reappearing as Stoneheart. My head might explode if I have to answer this question again.

My guess is Dondarrion is likely filling her role on the tv show, since he's deader than a hammer in the books. As I've been saying for a few seasons now, the books and the show have significantly diverged. We're still going to get to roughly the same ending, but how we're getting there is very different. I linked an article in this very thread where the producers addressed the differences and said it was intentional.

[Tbonewannabe]

I am interested to see where Arya shows up. I wonder if she goes to Kings Landing or to Winterfell.

[rolodawg]

How many times do we have to answer this? The producers have said repeatedly that Catelyn is completely dead in the show and will not be reappearing as Stoneheart. My head might explode if I have to answer this question again.

My guess is Dondarrion is likely filling her role on the tv show, since he's deader than a hammer in the books. As I've been saying for a few seasons now, the books and the show have significantly diverged. We're still going to get to roughly the same ending, but how we're getting there is very different. I linked an article in this very thread where the producers addressed the differences and said it was intentional.

Are you just an angry person that sits at a computer all day long playing video games, blessed with a little dick, acne filled face, and never goes out? When I read your post/s, I imagine Cartman in the South Park episode where he sits and plays games all night and day long and has his mom come with a bowl and catch his poop.

I do, however, want to apologize to you personally though......Sorry for making you post again on something you have already covered. Sorry for putting something in this thread of my own opinion that you do not agree, I obviously do not have the knowledge on this subject that you have. Also and early apology for making you type up this long rebuttal to this post, I may be away form the computer and wanted to go ahead and get it out of the way.

By the way, you think Lady Stoneheart is coming back.?.?.?.

Last thing.....I am typing this, smiling and laughing out loud that I am actually arguing with someone on the internet. Damn that Al Gore for inventing this tool of the devil!

[Uncle Ruckus]

Even though they've said she isn't coming back dozens of times, they also said Jon was dead and the actor even had I tell other cast mates he wasn't coming back. The girl who plays Sansa wrote him a big letter and everyone truly believed he was dead. So, you can't rule anything out. Do I think she's coming back? No. I think it's too late in the story and we've already had two people come back this season. Plus, they really seem to hate spending money on cgi (we never see dragons, direwolves of WW's).

[Tbonewannabe]

I am not sure how much she would add to the story now. I think the Brotherhood is going north to help in the real war, I don't think it will matter who is in charge.

[War Machine Dawg]

Are you just an angry person that sits at a computer all day long playing video games, blessed with a little dick, acne filled face, and never goes out? When I read your post/s, I imagine Cartman in the South Park episode where he sits and plays games all night and day long and has his mom come with a bowl and catch his poop.

I do, however, want to apologize to you personally though......Sorry for making you post again on something you have already covered. Sorry for putting something in this thread of my own opinion that you do not agree, I obviously do not have the knowledge on this subject that you have. Also and early apology for making you type up this long rebuttal to this post, I may be away form the computer and wanted to go ahead and get it out of the way.

By the way, you think Lady Stoneheart is coming back.?.?.?.

Last thing.....I am typing this, smiling and laughing out loud that I am actually arguing with someone on the internet. Damn that Al Gore for inventing this tool of the devil!

I'm not angry at all. Just frustrated that people don't take the time to actually read the thread(s) where we've covered some of these topics at length. Opinions are more than welcome. Everyone has their theories when it comes to GoT. I actually enjoy hearing and debating them.

Glad you can determine my mental state from text on a computer screen, though. If I ever need an ace shrink, I'll be sure to look you up. Anyone who can make such on point diagnoses from text on a screen has to be sure enough badass face-to-face.

[War Machine Dawg]

Even though they've said she isn't coming back dozens of times, they also said Jon was dead and the actor even had I tell other cast mates he wasn't coming back. The girl who plays Sansa wrote him a big letter and everyone truly believed he was dead. So, you can't rule anything out. Do I think she's coming back? No. I think it's too late in the story and we've already had two people come back this season. Plus, they really seem to hate spending money on cgi (we never see dragons, direwolves of WW's).

But did anyone who isn't a very casual fan actually believe that? I certainly didn't. As for the actors, they don't know any more than you or I. They find out when they do script readings. Very little is told to them too far ahead of time. If the theory almost all of us subscribe to is indeed proven to be correct, Jon is 1 of the 3 heads of the dragon and TPTWP. If he were to be completely killed, then the entire world of Men is screwed. Same if Rhaegar was TPTWP and he's truly dead, depending on which theory you believe.

[rolodawg]

Can you help me out with the TPTWP acronym? It may be in the thread, too lazy to go back.

[Tbonewannabe]

Can you help me out with the TPTWP acronym? It may be in the thread, too lazy to go back.

The prince that was promised. I get them confused myself because there is several that could be the same person or different such as the stallion who mounts the world.

[War Machine Dawg]

The prince that was promised. I get them confused myself because there is several that could be the same person or different such as the stallion who mounts the world.

Fairly certain The Stallion Who Mounts the World was different altogether. TPTWP is specifically related to the defeat of The Others/White Walkers. The Stallion was just supposed to be the ultimate Dothraki conqueror, if memory serves. And it was supposedly going to be Dany's baby with Drogo, but we all know how that turned out.

ETA: You're probably thinking about Azor Ahai as being another possible TPTWP. Those prophecies seem to have a whole lot in common. Wouldn't be surprised if they do wind up being the same, but wouldn't be surprised if they're totally different. GRRM has thrown so much shit against the wall, good luck figuring out what matters and what's a red herring outside of a few key elements like Jon and Dany. But that's what makes it so much fun!

[Tbonewannabe]

Fairly certain The Stallion Who Mounts the World was different altogether. TPTWP is specifically related to the defeat of The Others/White Walkers. The Stallion was just supposed to be the ultimate Dothraki conqueror, if memory serves. And it was supposedly going to be Dany's baby with Drogo, but we all know how that turned out.

ETA: You're probably thinking about Azor Ahai as being another possible TPTWP. Those prophecies seem to have a whole lot in common. Wouldn't be surprised if they do wind up being the same, but wouldn't be surprised if they're totally different. GRRM has thrown so much shit against the wall, good luck figuring out what matters and what's a red herring outside of a few key elements like Jon and Dany. But that's what makes it so much fun!

Didn't Dany say she was the Stallion who mounts the world in her Naked speech with the hut on fire? What is the actual difference in the prophecy of TPTWP and Azor Ahai? It has been awhile but I think I read where it sounded like maybe one was Dany and the other Jon Snow.

I am sure some people are going to be pissed because there is no way GRRM actually wraps up all the loose ends. It is going to be like the show Lost where you get a half ass explanation for 3/4 of it. At least we got the answer to Hodor even though it is horrific.

[BoomBoom]

Didn't Dany say she was the Stallion who mounts the world in her Naked speech with the hut on fire? What is the actual difference in the prophecy of TPTWP and Azor Ahai? It has been awhile but I think I read where it sounded like maybe one was Dany and the other Jon Snow.

I am sure some people are going to be pissed because there is no way GRRM actually wraps up all the loose ends. It is going to be like the show Lost where you get a half ass explanation for 3/4 of it. At least we got the answer to Hodor even though it is horrific.

We actually don't know much about the actual TPTWP prophecy. i think there was a bit where Maester Aemon thought it was Dany, as the translation could be Prince or Princess due to the Valyrian word being genderless. Does this mean the prophesy was Valyrian? perhaps from the same Targaryan princess that foresaw the Doom and convinced her family to move to Dragonstone? I think it's Jon though. "Promise me, Ned".

"the dragon shall have three heads" appears to have come from Rhaegar. there's still a lot there we don't know. he loved books as a child, and seems to have read something that caused him to believe he needed to be a knight.

Azor Ahai is a belief of the followers of R'holler, that a hero ended the Long Night by forging Lightbringer (via sacrifice) and defeating the Others. They believe he will be reborn to repeat history.

I woudln't be so sure about Lady Stoneheart. I can see the showrunners intending to leave her out, but her being more open to coming back (career-wise) now, and now that they have just said screw it and left GRRM behind then they may have come up with a plan to actually use her. I can understand them not using her when there was nothing for her to do, but now there could be in Season 7. The hard part though is the timing, as either she was risen long ago, or gets risen after a loooooooooooooong time decomposing. you know there will be a huge Oh Shit moment to end this season, and i don't see what else it could be. the Wall falling maybe? wait, we STILL haven't seen the end of the TOJ scene. the only reason to delay it this long would be.......twins.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Just thought of something, wtf is up with Dorne? They were in one episode. I really want the 'bad poosy' and the other ****s to die. I'd be fine with that being the last we ever see of them though.

[War Machine Dawg]

We actually don't know much about the actual TPTWP prophecy. i think there was a bit where Maester Aemon thought it was Dany, as the translation could be Prince or Princess due to the Valyrian word being genderless. Does this mean the prophesy was Valyrian? perhaps from the same Targaryan princess that foresaw the Doom and convinced her family to move to Dragonstone? I think it's Jon though. "Promise me, Ned".

"the dragon shall have three heads" appears to have come from Rhaegar. there's still a lot there we don't know. he loved books as a child, and seems to have read something that caused him to believe he needed to be a knight.

Azor Ahai is a belief of the followers of R'holler, that a hero ended the Long Night by forging Lightbringer (via sacrifice) and defeating the Others. They believe he will be reborn to repeat history.

I woudln't be so sure about Lady Stoneheart. I can see the showrunners intending to leave her out, but her being more open to coming back (career-wise) now, and now that they have just said screw it and left GRRM behind then they may have come up with a plan to actually use her. I can understand them not using her when there was nothing for her to do, but now there could be in Season 7. The hard part though is the timing, as either she was risen long ago, or gets risen after a loooooooooooooong time decomposing. you know there will be a huge Oh Shit moment to end this season, and i don't see what else it could be. the Wall falling maybe? wait, we STILL haven't seen the end of the TOJ scene. the only reason to delay it this long would be.......twins.

Ho. Lee. Shit. I've never thought of that angle. We all assume that Jon was an only child and Lyanna forced Ned to raise Jon as his own, because she knew Robert would kill any child of Rhaegar's, even if it was her child as well. But who the hell would a twin be? Certainly not Dany. It's very much established she's Rhaegar's sister. And there's no one floating around with any of the classic Stark physical features that seems to be important. You also would have to assume Howland Reed took the other kid and dropped it off with a different noble family. But there's no hint of an unexplained adoption or bastard for the important houses, other than Jon. We need Bear to weigh in on this theory. It's making my mind hurt.

[War Machine Dawg]

Just thought of something, wtf is up with Dorne? They were in one episode. I really want the 'bad poosy' and the other ****s to die. I'd be fine with that being the last we ever see of them though.

I'm starting to think Dorne's importance has been drastically reduced for the TV show. One of those book/tv divergences we've talked about at length. Kinda had to figure it when they announced they weren't casting Ariane and Quentyn, plus killing Myrcella. Elaria got at least part of her revenge and now rules Dorne with the Sand Snakes. Relatively tidy place to leave them. Or they'll show up out of the blue and tip the scales of a crucial battle to help unite Westeros in time to fight The Others/White Walkers.

[Tbonewannabe]

Ho. Lee. Shit. I've never thought of that angle. We all assume that Jon was an only child and Lyanna forced Ned to raise Jon as his own, because she knew Robert would kill any child of Rhaegar's, even if it was her child as well. But who the hell would a twin be? Certainly not Dany. It's very much established she's Rhaegar's sister. And there's no one floating around with any of the classic Stark physical features that seems to be important. You also would have to assume Howland Reed took the other kid and dropped it off with a different noble family. But there's no hint of an unexplained adoption or bastard for the important houses, other than Jon. We need Bear to weigh in on this theory. It's making my mind hurt.

The popular twin theory is that it is Meera. Ned takes one kid and Howland Reed the other.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'm starting to think Dorne's importance has been drastically reduced for the TV show. One of those book/tv divergences we've talked about at length. Kinda had to figure it when they announced they weren't casting Ariane and Quentyn, plus killing Myrcella. Elaria got at least part of her revenge and now rules Dorne with the Sand Snakes. Relatively tidy place to leave them. Or they'll show up out of the blue and tip the scales of a crucial battle to help unite Westeros in time to fight The Others/White Walkers.

Is it possible that is where Dany lands in Westeros and Dorne embrace her as their queen? Elaria made it a point to say that women would rule Dorne now. Other than Bronne interacting with the Sand Snake that place was a time waste. The show butchered that story line and made it unbearable to watch.

[msstate7]

Probably the best episode of the show. Just wish Ramsey died a little slower

[vv83]

Probably the best episode of the show. Just wish Ramsey died a little slower

I wanted Sansa to flay him alive but I'll take it

[Tbonewannabe]

I think it was fitting especially since he thought his dogs obeyed him no matter what. Sansa flipped his dog Reek and his other hounds.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Amazing episode. Next week is going to be intents as well. There's going to be a handful of regular's that meet their makers. Hopefully we'll get to see Nymeria again in the Twins.

[BSME04]

What happened to Ghost?

[War Machine Dawg]

What happened to Ghost?

CGI budget for the episode was used up. Only partial ******

[War Machine Dawg]

Damn what an episode! It was even better than I'd anticipated. So much happened, even though it only focused on 2 of the major house players:

1. Dany is finally able to control her dragons. Possibly the biggest development of the episode, imo, but the least noticed. Gotta figure dragon fire is gonna be crucial when it's time to fight The Others.

2. Dany has her fleet and Asha/Yara a badass ally in retaking the Iron Islands. But am I the only one who thinks the Ironborn are gonna have trouble adjusting to a new way of life? Don't see the Reaving and Raiding stopping just because Asha/Yara says so. Nice to see Theon getting himself back in the game. Also, how badass are the Dothraki and sellsword forces?

3. The Starks have reclaimed Winterfell!!!!! It's what we've all been waiting for and it's finally happened.

4. Rickon bites the dust. I thought Ramsey was going to turn the dogs loose and have them chase him down. But doing the deed personally with arrows? Holy. Shit.

5. Even after Sansa warns Jon about Ramsey, the dummy does EXACTLY what Ramsey wants. And the last giant paid the price for his stupidity. Whole lotta Wildllings died, too. They were already a pretty damn small force.

6. Loved Jon beating the hell out of Ramsey.

7. Sansa has learned well. She's going to be a legit player going forward. Turning Ramsey's dogs on him was a fitting, and may I say epic, end for him. Hungry dogs are not loyal dogs. That's even more sadistic than I'd imagined for her.

8. You had to figure Littlefinger and the Vale would be a factor at some point. Perfectly timed arrival to save Jon's ass after he played right into Ramsey's hands.

Questions after tonight:

1. How long until Dany comes to Westeros? She's got her fleet, the Unsullied, the Dothraki, the sellsword forces, and her dragons. Don't know what's left for her in Essos now that she's firmly taken control from the Masters. Does she dare go to Valyria and see if there's anything left worth recovering after the Doom?

2. What deal did Sansa make with Littlefinger? As I've said before, I have no doubt that Littlefinger truly wants to help Sansa and do right by her. But the problem is that Littlefinger will always look after Littlefinger first and foremost. Therefore, I can't imagine him not wanting SOMETHING from Sansa after she rejected his alliance earlier in the season.

3. What shape are the Wildlings going to be in for the real fight? They lost their giant, which is a big blow - literally and figuratively. And they lost a whole lot of fighters outside Winterfell.

4. What role will Tyrion have for Dany moving forward? Does she leave him behind to rule over Meereen? I can't see that. I believe their deal is he helps her and she lets him kill Cersei. Therefore, he must go to Westeros with her.

5. Who rules in Winterfell - Sansa or Jon? Both know the real war is still coming and further north. Does Jon take the Wildlings back to the Wall? Will he rejoin the Watch and let Sansa, the trueborn Stark, rule the North? Or will Jon choose to claim the Stark name and rule himself?

6. What's Davos going to do after discovering the place where Stannis burned his daughter? They didn't put that scene in there for no reason.

7. When is the wildfire in King's Landing going to play a part? They teased us with the story again. Much like the Davos scene, that wasn't mentioned idly.

WMD's comments:

My favorite moment of the night was the scene on the beach between Dany, Tyrion, and her group and The Masters and their group. Tyrion says "We've come to discuss terms of surrender." The Masters laugh and lay out ridiculous terms you knew Dany & Co were never gonna accept. Dany says "We're here to discuss your surrender, not mine." Then Drogon circles overhead and lands behind Dany. The "OH SHIT" look on the face of the three Masters was priceless. They knew they were screwed.

Losing Rickon sucks, but I think we all assumed it was happening. And dammit, it pisses me off that Shaggy really is dead and the Umbers really were traitors. At least I have the real Umbers in the books.

Not Jon's best night. He lets Ramsay play and almost gets trampled to death. At least he got to beat the hell out of Ramsay and recaptured Winterfell. Who's going to replace the gate? Some protective castle with an open entrance for anyone to waltz through unimpeded.

Finally seeing Dany's dragons in action was awesome.

What's left for next week? Do we finally go back to the Tower of Joy? Supposedly there's one more major battle, but I have no idea what it would be. Gotta figure Cersei will be PISSED when she hears the Starks have recaptured the North. Will we finally see what game Margaery is playing with the High Sparrow? What about The Hound and the BWB? Will Arya arrive in Westeros and make an impact? What about Sam and Gilly? Haven't seen them in ages. Ditto the group at the Wall. Brienne and Pod? Do they go to Winterfell? Will we get anymore on the Bran, Benjen, and Meera story?

Hard to believe we're getting so close to the end now. Only two seasons left. And really it's technically one season they're splitting in half, or so I've heard. Episode 9 continues to be the biggest episode of each season so far. If next season is only 8 episodes as is rumored, does that mean Episode 7 will be the big one? Or will they just go all in for a finale?

[louisvilledawg]

Probably the best episode of the show. Just wish Ramsey died a little slower

Agree.

As much as I hate Ramsey, i definitely appreciate the character. Dude was sick and twisted. Go back and watch the part where he's shooting arrows at Rickon. One of the shots where he misses he just kinda shrugs his shoulders and smirks like it's a game. like he knew all along he would kill Rickon right in front of Jon and make him come charging since he had just seen his brother be murdered after he was so close to being rescued. Ramsey was just playing with Jon. His plan would've worked too, had Sansa, littlefinger, and crew not shown up to save the day.

Someone asked where the wildfire will come into play.

Read a theory the other day that says Cersei will be the one to use the wildfire to burn down King's landing.. said something how she's mentioned on multiple occasions that she would burn the city to the ground to protect Tommen, her last remaining son.

Also read that Jaime may end up killing Cersei to protect King's Landing.

[Tbonewannabe]

Agree.

As much as I hate Ramsey, i definitely appreciate the character. Dude was sick and twisted. Go back and watch the part where he's shooting arrows at Rickon. One of the shots where he misses he just kinda shrugs his shoulders and smirks like it's a game. like he knew all along he would kill Rickon right in front of Jon and make him come charging since he had just seen his brother be murdered after he was so close to being rescued. Ramsey was just playing with Jon. His plan would've worked too, had Sansa, littlefinger, and crew not shown up to save the day.

Someone asked where the wildfire will come into play.

Read a theory the other day that says Cersei will be the one to use the wildfire to burn down King's landing.. said something how she's mentioned on multiple occasions that she would burn the city to the ground to protect Tommen, her last remaining son.

Also read that Jaime may end up killing Cersei to protect King's Landing.

This would make sense because Jaime already killed the king he was sworn to protect for the exact same thing. It would also complete the fortune told to Cersi by Maggie the frog. I definitely thought Ramsay was missing on purpose to get Jon worked up. I think Sansa had this plan all along and was willing to sacrifice Jon to get Winterfell back and defeat Ramsay. I think she learned a lot from Littlefinger and knows how to scheme.

It is going to be interesting that where there was the war of the 5 kings, there may be Queens in there place when everything shakes out. Tommen will die at some point so Margery will be Queen, Elaria has already taken over Dorne, Sansa will now have the North, the Iron Islands will have a Queen, and then Dany coming back to Westeros.

[mcain31]

Sansa pissed me off. Just like Ramsay, she needlessly sacrificed a lot of good men. When she criticized Jon for not knowing Ramsay, she couldn't offer any suggestions and didn't tell him about the possibility of being reinforced by the Knights of the Vale. Jon should have executed Ramsay in public like Ned would've done.

Ramsay's cavalry commander was an idiot also. He should've told his men on Ramsay's plan and turned on Ramsay.

[mcain31]

Bran is headed to Winterfell in the show. He is Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

So if it is somehow proven that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, who has more of a claim to the iron throne? Jon or Dany ?

[msstatelp1]

So if it is somehow proven that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, who has more of a claim to the iron throne? Jon or Dany ?

Assuming Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, then Jon would.

[msstatelp1]

Sansa pissed me off. Just like Ramsay, she needlessly sacrificed a lot of good men. When she criticized Jon for not knowing Ramsay, she couldn't offer any suggestions and didn't tell him about the possibility of being reinforced by the Knights of the Vale. Jon should have executed Ramsay in public like Ned would've done.

Ramsay's cavalry commander was an idiot also. He should've told his men on Ramsay's plan and turned on Ramsay.

I think Sansa was the more realistic one in this scenario. She may not have known the military tactics, but she knew the adversary. She told Jon that Ramsey would kill Rickon and that Ramsey wouldn't fall for Jon's trap. She also warned Jon that Ramsey would do whatever he could to manipulate Jon into doing what he (Ramsey) wanted him (Jon) to do. Jon did not listen.

As for Sansa not saying anything about the Knights of the Vale, she has grown up. She understands the "Game of Thrones" better than Jon. For her plan to work, she needed Jon to react as he did and fall into Ramsey's trap so all of Ramsey's army could be surrounded at one time. Her ultimate goal was to take back Winterfell and she was willing to do whatever it took to get it back. She has learned well from Littlefinger.

[War Machine Dawg]

Assuming Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, then Jon would.

Money is on them being unmarried, though. That would still make Jon a bastard, but he'd be a Blackfyre instead of a Snow. Either way, Jon has the worst claim and worst position to reclaim the Iron Throne. Plus, that story isn't the real story or the real fight. It's all about The Others. Jon is the only one who's been preparing for what really matters. If he survives and The Others are defeated, he may be asked to rule, but he isn't going to do it by playing the "Game of Thrones." And even *if* he's asked to rule, I'd assume it will be with Dany as his sister-wife, according to the Targaryen tradition.

Personally, I'd love to see Jon become the ultimate winner of the Iron Throne. But it just doesn't make any sense. You gotta think of the bigger picture.

[War Machine Dawg]

Bran is headed to Winterfell in the show. He is Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

Except everyone thinks he's dead and Benjen is taking he & Meera further north. He has to become the new Three Eyed Crow. Like Jon, he's not really in position to claim any real Weserosi power.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Not sister-wife, auntie-wife.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Except everyone thinks he's dead and Benjen is taking he & Meera further north. He has to become the new Three Eyed Crow. Like Jon, he's not really in position to claim any real Weserosi power.
I don't think it's been said, or even implied, that they're going farther north. There's really not indication where they're going. I think everyone is assuming they are going south to escape the WW's and get Bran to the wall.

[mcain31]

Except everyone thinks he's dead and Benjen is taking he & Meera further north. He has to become the new Three Eyed Crow. Like Jon, he's not really in position to claim any real Weserosi power.

The White Walkers attacked from the North. They had to have headed south. It's where relative safety is

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't think it's been said, or even implied, that they're going farther north. There's really not indication where they're going. I think everyone is assuming they are going south to escape the WW's and get Bran to the wall.

GRRM has said several times we'd go farther North this season. Bran needs a place to hide out and explore his greenseer powers. He needs the power of the weirwoods for that. That isn't Winterfell. If he goes back there, he'll be too busy with the mundane, distracting stuff to focus on learning how to harness his powers. They'll find another cave or something to hide in.

Again, you have to think big picture. Who wins the Iron Throne or rules Winterfell is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of the story. It's fun to talk about, but it won't matter if when the Others/WWs show up they can't be defeated and wipe Men from existence.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just had a crazy thought. What if Tommen is the cause of Cersi's death? If he orders her death then dies himself. He is the younger brother so the fortune would still hold.

[Uncle Ruckus]

I think if they go the Volanqar rout in the show that that is very possibly, and probably most likely. However, I don't think that they will go that route since they did not have the Volanqar prophecy in the show.

[Uncle Ruckus]

GRRM has said several times we'd go farther North this season. Bran needs a place to hide out and explore his greenseer powers. He needs the power of the weirwoods for that. That isn't Winterfell. If he goes back there, he'll be too busy with the mundane, distracting stuff to focus on learning how to harness his powers. They'll find another cave or something to hide in.

Again, you have to think big picture. Who wins the Iron Throne or rules Winterfell is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of the story. It's fun to talk about, but it won't matter if when the Others/WWs show up they can't be defeated and wipe Men from existence.
:cool:

[Tbonewannabe]

Absolutely great episode. I wonder if Bran will tell Jon who his parents are. Jaime definitely looked at Cersi like she was crazy. I really hope Winds of Winter come out soon.

[mcain31]

It was a fantastic episode. The last 13 episodes will be crazy

[louisvilledawg]

Jaime gonna kill Cersei

[mcain31]

Apparently, Jon Snow's true name is Jaehaerys Targaryen

[Tbonewannabe]

Apparently, Jon Snow's true name is Jaehaerys Targaryen

I saw that woman supposedly watched it 50 times to get it right. It was more difficult to read her lips because you could only see from the side. HBO after show also released a graphic that showed his dad was Rhaegar so it is pretty official. The only thing not known is if they were married which would make him a Targeryan rather than a bastard. He would be a Blackfyre if that was the case. Rumor is the Night King was a Blackfyre who became Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.

[War Machine Dawg]

Sorry it's taken me so long to chime in this week, fellas. Been on vaca with the fam in DC. Just got back last night.

What a damn episode. Ho. Lee. Shit. So much happened to talk about:

Cersei takes out The Faith and all the Tyrells except the Queen of Thorns. Inadvertently causes Tommen's death. Ascends to the Iron Throne as queen. Jaime is gonna kill the bitch at some point. I'm convinced now. I think it'll be The Hound in the books, but it's Jaime in the show. Also, I think this whole plot plays out differently in the books. Honestly, I'm just surprised Cersei didn't burn down the whole city.

Dany and Tyrion were on point. Tyrion's speech about being a cynic but believing in Dany has to hit you in the feels. Interesting to see the Targaryen forces aligning - Dothraki, Unsullied, Dorne, Tyrell. And were Yara & Theon part of the massive fleet? I had a little trouble with that, should probably re-watch that segment. Regardless, Dany is going to steamroll Westeros when she shows up.

Sansa and Jon in the North is intriguing. Lady Mormont continues to be badass. I think Sansa is fine with Jon being Lord of Winterfell, but I'm not sure how long that'll last. Littlefinger was definitely pissed at the end of the episode. At least Sansa saw it and knows he can't be trusted. Gonna be real interested to see what happens with this particular story.

Arya is a beast. Making Walder Frey eat his own sons? Epic! About time she starts making her moves. I could see her taking out Cersei, too. But my money is still on Jaime, for now.

Davos confronts Melisandre. Not sure how I feel about this. What she did was completely awful and she deserves to die. If Jon or Davos had killed her, it would be justice and I'd be ok with it. But she's also the reason Jon is still alive. Part of me is glad she's still alive for the real fight, because she's going to be useful.

Sam and Gilly finally arrived at Old Town. Sam's gonna be real damn disappointed to find out Jon is no longer Lord Commander of the Watch. Wonder if we'll be going back to the Wall next season? That particular part of the story needs some fleshing out.

And finally, the biggest moment of the night: TOJ! We have confirmation that Jon is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Is he a trueborn Targaryen or a Blackfyre? And is his name even Jon? Jon Snow is essentially the Westerosi equivalent of Jon Smith. I'm guessing he has a different name we don't know just yet. And how will he discover who he really is? Will he find Bran and learn it from him? Or will he discover it another way? Here's a pretty cool fan theory of how it could happen differently. (http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Game-Thrones-Jon-Snow-Winterfell-Crypt-Theory-41389937) Honestly, I would prefer this and would bet this is more likely to happen in the books than TV. Let's talk GoT!

[Tbonewannabe]

I might be incorrect but didn't Sam go to not only become a Maester but also really to find out whatever he can on the White Walkers? Seems like that was one of the reasons Jon sent him there. That theory on how he will find out makes sense. The only other way I could see it is if we finally meet Howland Reed. If he comes to Winterfell and tells Jon but maybe Littlefinger has a spy that overheard the conversation. That would give him another way to twist things to maybe get on the iron throne.

[mcain31]

I saw that woman supposedly watched it 50 times to get it right. It was more difficult to read her lips because you could only see from the side. HBO after show also released a graphic that showed his dad was Rhaegar so it is pretty official. The only thing not known is if they were married which would make him a Targeryan rather than a bastard. He would be a Blackfyre if that was the case. Rumor is the Night King was a Blackfyre who became Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.

Blackfyre was the surname that Daemon after he was legitimized by Aegon IV Targaryen on his deathbed. Before then, he was Daemon Waters. All Blackfyres are Daemon's descendants. Jon is called Snow because bast arts raised in the North use the surname Snow.

[War Machine Dawg]

I might be incorrect but didn't Sam go to not only become a Maester but also really to find out whatever he can on the White Walkers? Seems like that was one of the reasons Jon sent him there. That theory on how he will find out makes sense. The only other way I could see it is if we finally meet Howland Reed. If he comes to Winterfell and tells Jon but maybe Littlefinger has a spy that overheard the conversation. That would give him another way to twist things to maybe get on the iron throne.

I believe you're correct. That was part of the reason Jon sent Sam to become Maester. He knew they needed all the info they could get on the White Walkers and the best place to find whatever info that's left was the Maesters' Guild in Old Town. But they also desperately need a new Maester to replace Aemon and Sam was the most qualified candidate.

[War Machine Dawg]

On the fan theory of how Jon discovers his true ancestry, what if the tales of Vermax laying eggs in the Winterfell crypts is true? We know that dragons are asexual/gender fluid, i.e. they are neither male nor female and can be both. Thus why Aemon, shortly before his death, believes the prophecy of TPTWP refers to Dany. Even though Vermax was "male", he still was capable of laying eggs. That being the case, let's make a couple of assumptions:

1. Vermax did, in fact, lay eggs in the Winterfell crypts.

2. The fan theory involving Jon discovering his ancestry in the crypts happens.

Does Jon then also discover Vermax's eggs? Will one or more of the eggs hatch for him? As a Targaryen, we know by birth he is a dragon master. Yes, he has Ghost. But should he not also have at least one dragon? And would you even like for him to have a dragon?

Just some questions I had that I think make for interesting discussion.

[mcain31]

On the fan theory of how Jon discovers his true ancestry, what if the tales of Vermax laying eggs in the Winterfell crypts is true? We know that dragons are asexual/gender fluid, i.e. they are neither male nor female and can be both. Thus why Aemon, shortly before his death, believes the prophecy of TPTWP refers to Dany. Even though Vermax was "male", he still was capable of laying eggs. That being the case, let's make a couple of assumptions:

1. Vermax did, in fact, lay eggs in the Winterfell crypts.

2. The fan theory involving Jon discovering his ancestry in the crypts happens.

Does Jon then also discover Vermax's eggs? Will one or more of the eggs hatch for him? As a Targaryen, we know by birth he is a dragon master. Yes, he has Ghost. But should he not also have at least one dragon? And would you even like for him to have a dragon?

Just some questions I had that I think make for interesting discussion.

I believe it takes "fire and blood" to hatch dragon eggs. A life must be sacrificed via fire with the egg for a dragon to hatch.

[msstatelp1]

I believe it takes "fire and blood" to hatch dragon eggs. A life must be sacrificed via fire with the egg for a dragon to hatch.

Maybe Melisandre provides both.

[War Machine Dawg]

I believe it takes "fire and blood" to hatch dragon eggs. A life must be sacrificed via fire with the egg for a dragon to hatch.

Not necessarily. I think it depends on the state of the egg(s). We aren't told anything about how dragons hatch or why they hatch. Dany's eggs were supposedly fossilized, thus requiring the extraordinary circumstances of "fire and blood" to activate them. If Vermax's eggs are still viable, then perhaps they'd hatch for a Targaryen naturally. We just don't have enough information to go on to make that sort of guess.

Damn good point, though. Certainly worth discussing. And dammit, we need Bear to get in on this discussion. He's the real theorist of our discussions.

[War Machine Dawg]

Maybe Melisandre provides both.

Interesting idea. She might be willing to make that sacrifice to help atone for Shireen, especially if it increases "Jon's" odds of defeating the White Walkers.

[Tbonewannabe]

I still think Howland Reed ends up at Winterfell. He would be the only person other than Bran that would know Jon's actual parents except maybe the nurse maids. Any chance the show held something back for GRRM to release in the books if they could get released before next April? They already unveiled the meaning of Hodor and the Tower of Joy but could they have purposefully left out something for GRRM to have a big moment in the books? I know GRRM has said that Hodor doesn't go down exactly the same but the meaning is the same, just unveiled differently. I imagine as a writer to have these things "spoiled" for you does suck. Even though the Tower of Joy was the worst secret ever, he did spend over a decade developing his books to get that reveal. I hope the Winds of Winter at least goes into more depth and maybe we get Lyanna's whole conversation.

[War Machine Dawg]

I still think Howland Reed ends up at Winterfell. He would be the only person other than Bran that would know Jon's actual parents except maybe the nurse maids. Any chance the show held something back for GRRM to release in the books if they could get released before next April? They already unveiled the meaning of Hodor and the Tower of Joy but could they have purposefully left out something for GRRM to have a big moment in the books? I know GRRM has said that Hodor doesn't go down exactly the same but the meaning is the same, just unveiled differently. I imagine as a writer to have these things "spoiled" for you does suck. Even though the Tower of Joy was the worst secret ever, he did spend over a decade developing his books to get that reveal. I hope the Winds of Winter at least goes into more depth and maybe we get Lyanna's whole conversation.

Fat Bastard doesn't give a damn. He's too busy raking in the cash from the TV show and doing everything except writing the books. And it's his own f'n fault he hasn't stayed ahead of the show. When you take a 10-15 year hiatus between books, the obsessed fans will analyze every damn word and bit of punctuation. That's why R + L = J was an awful secret. Fat Bastard started something he wasn't that interested in finishing.

As for the book/tv thing, we've discussed this 100 times. It's been made abundantly clear by both Fat Bastard and the producers that the books and tv have diverged significantly. They're getting to the same endgame, but "how" they get their is fairly different. I linked an article discussing that in this thread a few pages back. I think the grave theory is more likely to happen in the books than on TV, and I'm good with that. Howland could pop up in the TV show to tell "Jon" or he could find out from Bran.

Here's a great article about GRRM asking Stephen King how he writes so fast (http://nerdist.com/george-r-r-martin-asked-stephen-king-how-he-writes-so-quickly/). King tells Fat Bastard: Just write. Make yourself do it. Fat Bastard is too lazy to comprehend the idea you have to force yourself to write.

[Tbonewannabe]

Fat Bastard doesn't give a damn. He's too busy raking in the cash from the TV show and doing everything except writing the books. And it's his own f'n fault he hasn't stayed ahead of the show. When you take a 10-15 year hiatus between books, the obsessed fans will analyze every damn word and bit of punctuation. That's why R + L = J was an awful secret. Fat Bastard started something he wasn't that interested in finishing.

As for the book/tv thing, we've discussed this 100 times. It's been made abundantly clear by both Fat Bastard and the producers that the books and tv have diverged significantly. They're getting to the same endgame, but "how" they get their is fairly different. I linked an article discussing that in this thread a few pages back. I think the grave theory is more likely to happen in the books than on TV, and I'm good with that. Howland could pop up in the TV show to tell "Jon" or he could find out from Bran.

Here's a great article about GRRM asking Stephen King how he writes so fast (http://nerdist.com/george-r-r-martin-asked-stephen-king-how-he-writes-so-quickly/). King tells Fat Bastard: Just write. Make yourself do it. Fat Bastard is too lazy to comprehend the idea you have to force yourself to write.

I think GRRM has so many things he likes to do that the books weren't "the most important thing" for him. I think this season was the first one he didn't write an episode. He usually wrote 1 or 2 episodes a season and it was usually one of the most important episodes. It seems like I read once that Stephen King sits down and writes something pretty much every day whether it is good or just shit to be thrown away. It is like a muscle that the more you use it, the faster it is.

It will be interesting to read the books and see if GRRM tries to come up with something just to make it different. I know he has said he is doing something in the books that the show can't do since the person is dead in the show. I am just ready for the books since I am tired of just talking in circles about the show. I do wish BulldogBear would watch the show since he has great theories. I started to read the books again but I just can't seem to stick with it. Those first books seem to drag on forever.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think GRRM has so many things he likes to do that the books weren't "the most important thing" for him. I think this season was the first one he didn't write an episode. He usually wrote 1 or 2 episodes a season and it was usually one of the most important episodes. It seems like I read once that Stephen King sits down and writes something pretty much every day whether it is good or just shit to be thrown away. It is like a muscle that the more you use it, the faster it is.

It will be interesting to read the books and see if GRRM tries to come up with something just to make it different. I know he has said he is doing something in the books that the show can't do since the person is dead in the show. I am just ready for the books since I am tired of just talking in circles about the show. I do wish BulldogBear would watch the show since he has great theories. I started to read the books again but I just can't seem to stick with it. Those first books seem to drag on forever.

If you'll read the article I linked, that's exactly what King tells GRRM. He says he writes 3-4 hours every single day and hopes to produce 5-6 "fairly clean" pages. Then GRRM asks him some stupid question about if he ever writes a sentence or two, thinks it's complete trash, questions his talent, checks his email, and wonders if he ever should be writing. King tells GRRM nope, you just gotta write.

Basically, GRRM won't let the editing process be his friend and can't write through the terrible stuff. He gets frustrated and quits too easily instead of forcing his way through. And that's why it takes him 5+ years between books instead 1-2 like it should take. Plus he supposedly doesn't get much done during football season because he's a huge fan. Seems like I've read that somewhere before, at least. So that's 3-4 months out of the year where little gets done. Then factor in trips to tv production, various comic cons, etc. - he just doesn't know how to get stuff done. And at this point, it's probably not changing. I'll be shocked if we get TWOW before 2018. And A Dream of Summer might be 2025 or later.

Bear, if you're reading, come back and talk to us! You can't get pissy and wait a decade on Fat Bastard to finish the books he apparently isn't that interested in anymore. We need some quality discussion instead of talking in circles about the same stuff!

[Tbonewannabe]

If you'll read the article I linked, that's exactly what King tells GRRM. He says he writes 3-4 hours every single day and hopes to produce 5-6 "fairly clean" pages. Then GRRM asks him some stupid question about if he ever writes a sentence or two, thinks it's complete trash, questions his talent, checks his email, and wonders if he ever should be writing. King tells GRRM nope, you just gotta write.

Basically, GRRM won't let the editing process be his friend and can't write through the terrible stuff. He gets frustrated and quits too easily instead of forcing his way through. And that's why it takes him 5+ years between books instead 1-2 like it should take. Plus he supposedly doesn't get much done during football season because he's a huge fan. Seems like I've read that somewhere before, at least. So that's 3-4 months out of the year where little gets done. Then factor in trips to tv production, various comic cons, etc. - he just doesn't know how to get stuff done. And at this point, it's probably not changing. I'll be shocked if we get TWOW before 2018. And A Dream of Summer might be 2025 or later.

Bear, if you're reading, come back and talk to us! You can't get pissy and wait a decade on Fat Bastard to finish the books he apparently isn't that interested in anymore. We need some quality discussion instead of talking in circles about the same stuff!

I never thought about this but do you think because the show is going to finish his story first that he is just losing interest? It has been said that the ending is the same so we will know the end of the books before he even starts writing the last book.

[BulldogBear]

Ho. Lee. Shit. I've never thought of that angle. We all assume that Jon was an only child and Lyanna forced Ned to raise Jon as his own, because she knew Robert would kill any child of Rhaegar's, even if it was her child as well. But who the hell would a twin be? Certainly not Dany. It's very much established she's Rhaegar's sister. And there's no one floating around with any of the classic Stark physical features that seems to be important. You also would have to assume Howland Reed took the other kid and dropped it off with a different noble family. But there's no hint of an unexplained adoption or bastard for the important houses, other than Jon. We need Bear to weigh in on this theory. It's making my mind hurt.


The popular twin theory is that it is Meera. Ned takes one kid and Howland Reed the other.

If this is true, then Meera was raised as Howland Reed's daughter. I don't think he dropped the twin off anywhere else. Like Leia she remains "completely anonymous." In ADWD, Melissandre has a vision in which Jon's sister is riding a horse to the wall. Was it Meera? At the end of ADWD, I believe of course that Jojen, aka Howland Reed is about to die and spills the truth to Meera about her true parentage and her brother Jon. Could be why Meera was absent at the end of ADWD along with Jojen?

Remember, I'm going off the books and the assumption that the show is not necessarily to be believed as far as storyline goes. Like others have said maybe just the endgame. It would be like somebody telling you after Vicksburg and Gettysburg that the North would win the Civil War and that Lee would surrender at Appomattox but telling you nothing else. Then asking you to fill in the gap with your own storyline. So, "the show is dead to me!" Screw you GRRM.

[BoomBoom]

If you'll read the article I linked, that's exactly what King tells GRRM. He says he writes 3-4 hours every single day and hopes to produce 5-6 "fairly clean" pages. Then GRRM asks him some stupid question about if he ever writes a sentence or two, thinks it's complete trash, questions his talent, checks his email, and wonders if he ever should be writing. King tells GRRM nope, you just gotta write.

Basically, GRRM won't let the editing process be his friend and can't write through the terrible stuff. He gets frustrated and quits too easily instead of forcing his way through. And that's why it takes him 5+ years between books instead 1-2 like it should take. Plus he supposedly doesn't get much done during football season because he's a huge fan. Seems like I've read that somewhere before, at least. So that's 3-4 months out of the year where little gets done. Then factor in trips to tv production, various comic cons, etc. - he just doesn't know how to get stuff done. And at this point, it's probably not changing. I'll be shocked if we get TWOW before 2018. And A Dream of Summer might be 2025 or later.

Bear, if you're reading, come back and talk to us! You can't get pissy and wait a decade on Fat Bastard to finish the books he apparently isn't that interested in anymore. We need some quality discussion instead of talking in circles about the same stuff!

King wrote a book a while back that was basically about himself. he would "bank" entire books, so that if something happened he could just dip into the "bank" and send his editor a book on schedule. he's a writing freak, it's not fair to compare him to GRRM.

i think he just doesn't have to truly work anymore, and ASOIAF has turned into work. he just doesn't want to do it anymore. but he's in denial about the change, he keeps thinking his productivity will match the past, that's why he keeps missing deadlines. he keeps telling himself he won't have to buckle down, the writing will come. but it won't, for him to finish he's going to have to work hard at it. and at this point i don't think he ever will. we'll get WoW, because it has to be near done now, but i doubt we'll ever see aDoS.

[BulldogBear]

I still think Howland Reed ends up at Winterfell. He would be the only person other than Bran that would know Jon's actual parents except maybe the nurse maids. Any chance the show held something back for GRRM to release in the books if they could get released before next April? They already unveiled the meaning of Hodor and the Tower of Joy but could they have purposefully left out something for GRRM to have a big moment in the books? I know GRRM has said that Hodor doesn't go down exactly the same but the meaning is the same, just unveiled differently. I imagine as a writer to have these things "spoiled" for you does suck. Even though the Tower of Joy was the worst secret ever, he did spend over a decade developing his books to get that reveal. I hope the Winds of Winter at least goes into more depth and maybe we get Lyanna's whole conversation.

Where does that information come from. I ask because I hope you misunderstood whatever the source meant. Frankly, although I haven't watched the scene of course, I hope that all this mystery and build up hasn't led up to something as anti-climactic as 17ing "Hold the Door!" One old Norse diety of Winter was called "Hod" and sometimes spelled as "Hodr." And it is pronounce with a long "O," like Hode or Hoder. That being a source for GRRM's inspiration is something I've always assumed. If you speak in an old English accent (think middle ages after Anglo-Saxon invasion of England but before coming of Normans) saying the word "Other" could sound a lot like saying "Hodor" especially if you drop the "H." This is much better and creepier, like "Other" is a misinterpretation or bastardization of the word Hodor. In this theory they aren't actually called the "Others." They are the "Hodors," as in that maybe that's the name of R'hollor's opposite number...as in they are "Hodor's." And after centuries of getting it wrong they have come to be called "Others." That makes a much better source. Now, it would need to be something traumatic in Walder's past that involving the Others that caused his disorder. Well, then being accosted by a bunch of them might work!!!!

[Tbonewannabe]

Where does that information come from. I ask because I hope you misunderstood whatever the source meant. Frankly, although I haven't watched the scene of course, I hope that all this mystery and build up hasn't led up to something as anti-climactic as 17ing "Hold the Door!" One old Norse diety of Winter was called "Hod" and sometimes spelled as "Hodr." And it is pronounce with a long "O," like Hode or Hoder. That being a source for GRRM's inspiration is something I've always assumed. If you speak in an old English accent (think middle ages after Anglo-Saxon invasion of England but before coming of Normans) saying the word "Other" could sound a lot like saying "Hodor" especially if you drop the "H." This is much better and creepier, like "Other" is a misinterpretation or bastardization of the word Hodor. In this theory they aren't actually called the "Others." They are the "Hodors," as in that maybe that's the name of R'hollor's opposite number...as in they are "Hodor's." And after centuries of getting it wrong they have come to be called "Others." That makes a much better source. Now, it would need to be something traumatic in Walder's past that involving the Others that caused his disorder. Well, then being accosted by a bunch of them might work!!!!

At this point I think you would be better suited to finish the books than GRRM. You have better ideas than what we are probably getting in the books.

[greenbean]

Just watched Blackhawk Down, Jamie Lanister won the MOH in that battle, unfortunately post humorously, but I guess GOT occurred several millennia prior.