So what's the deal with Quay Evans and Nick James?

[Goat Holder]

I watched the video interview with Turner and all the other guys, and predictably Evans/James aren't in the interview. They talk about how they bring effort on some days and not on others. What gives here? Is this just the inevitable maturity process where these guys are second year players and they aren't ready, or is something else at work here?

[Coach34]

Quay is supposedly coming along...James is much more spotty

Both are kind of head cases

[bgdog]

I have no idea but just reading between the lines it seems like there where some discipline and conditioning issues? I guess that could have slowed down the maturity process which could be why they aren't necessarily where you want them to be right now?

Again I have no idea if that's true or not that's just a possible explanation. I really wanted to be hearing more about them at this point too though.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

The light hasnt come on for quay yet. He isnt a head case though. Far from it. He will get there

[CadaverDawg]

The fact that both have shown signs of playing strong in spurts, whether it be in practice or games....tells me that they will eventually get it together. If not, they probably wouldn't still be here. Big guys like that aren't going to keep putting themselves through hell in practice and two a days if their heart isn't in the game. I think we see Quay step up and play a lot this year, and then I feel like Nick will follow suit once he sees that his buddy has picked it up a notch. Maybe by next year they will both decide to get conditioned and form a kick ass duo on the middle of that DLine for their Junior years.

[dawg21]

You want a little crazy on the DL and LB, hopefully on gameday that channel everything into killing QBs and RBs.

[Goat Holder]

No 5 star comes free, I suppose. I guess I just don't get it. You have the ability, just work hard, boom, you succeed. At least in some capacity.

[Goat Holder]

I think they are both a year away, unfortunately. Which is OK as far as they go, but I think many people were expecting them to be dominate THIS year. Ain't happening. If we are dominate on the DL this year, it'll be because of P. Jones, Autry and Eulls.

[Political Hack]

I think Quay still has a chance to dominate this year.

[bulldawg28]

These guys played last year when they should have redshirted. A year of redshirting would have gotten a lot of these problems out of their systems. They were too immature to play and now they're playing catch up.

[maroonmania]

These guys played last year when they should have redshirted. A year of redshirting would have gotten a lot of these problems out of their systems. They were too immature to play and now they're playing catch up.

I think the main reason we DID play them last year was because it was questionable how long we can keep these guys in good standing in the program because of their immaturity. If we had taken football away from these 2 guys for a year last year who knows what trouble they would have gotten themselves into.

[bulldawg28]

Redshirting doesnt take it away it's a year of preparation.

[Coach34]

. If we had taken football away from these 2 guys for a year last year who knows what trouble they would have gotten themselves into.

They would have had to practice everyday- football would have still been there- just not on Saturday

[M.Fillmore]

I think the main reason we DID play them last year was because it was questionable how long we can keep these guys in good standing in the program because of their immaturity. If we had taken football away from these 2 guys for a year last year who knows what trouble they would have gotten themselves into.

/\ This /\

I really hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am wrong. Quay's development has always scared me. Million dollar body, I just hope his head can catch up.

[Political Hack]

they played because the staff fully expects both to go pro after 3 years. That's the only reason they played last year because they did not want to reward them for their effort coming into week 1.

[maroonmania]

They would have had to practice everyday- football would have still been there- just not on Saturday

Understood, but I think our coaches may have felt that these 2 guys would not have had the same focus without preparing for a game on Saturday. That is the only thing that makes sense because they obviously weren't ready as true freshmen to contribute significantly.

[Political Hack]

what I posted is not an opinion. it is a fact. they played because they only have them for 3 years.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Maroon post fact on this. Sorry.

[biggun]

what I posted is not an opinion. it is a fact. they played because they only have them for 3 years.

What kind of year do you think they will have this year?? I thought Nick would move past Quay and perhaps be a starter this year but not sure now. Thoughts?

[Political Hack]

What kind of year do you think they will have this year?? I thought Nick would move past Quay and perhaps be a starter this year but not sure now. Thoughts?

I think Quay is obviously ahead of Nick right now. I think Quay could have a year a lot like Autry did last year. I think Nick is going to have trouble with being in playing condition and until that happens he won't be getting as many snaps as he should. I think if they keep him fresh and use him in goal line situations he could really help out.

[Political Hack]

Maroon post fact on this. Sorry.

that's incorrect.

[starkvegasdawg]

I have no idea but just reading between the lines it seems like there where some discipline and conditioning

Inexcusable if conditioning is still an issue. They've been in the program long enough that they should be in playing shape. Now, if they attitude problems, that is one thing. Make them ride the pine until they put forth the effort. But if their attitude is so poor that the staff has been unable to get them in shape then perhaps they need to be asked how much they want to be on the team. I know it would be very hard to do that with that much elite talent potential, though. I would think and hope that the staff has told them the nfl doesn't put up with halfassed effort.

[Political Hack]

Nick's problems are mental. Conditioning is just a byproduct of him learning to buy in to the program.

Quay is smart as shit, he had just never had to work for anything ever in his life. He'll be fine.

[War Machine Dawg]

I'm not too worried about Quay. From all accounts, he's starting to get it. And he showed more flashes than James last year. I think he'll flourish in our new scheme and be a starter the 2nd half of the season.

James, who the hell knows? He looked like he'd turned the corner in terms of attitude in the spring, but now we're hearing it's the same ol' shit this fall from him. I met a guy down at the Gator Bowl who thinks James will be a huge bust because he's lazy and can't be motivated. Hope like hell he's wrong, but the continued bad attitude is saying otherwise.

[maroonmania]

that's incorrect.

Well whatever our coaches were thinking last year, at this point, given neither Evans nor James are getting first team reps starting their Soph year I don't see a great chance that one of them would leave after 3 years much less both unless its for something OTHER than the NFL. Not many guys are 3 year college players that aren't starting or at least making a big impact by the 2nd year.

[HancockCountyDog]

what I posted is not an opinion. it is a fact. they played because they only have them for 3 years.

Nick James has a long ways to go, to even consider the NFL. Hell he has a long way to go before he can start in the SEC.

[Goat Holder]

I think PHack and maroonmania are both right, from what I've seen in this thread and what I saw last year.

Let's face it, at this point, these guys are nowhere near Fletcher Cox's development as a true freshman. And that's what it takes to be an NFL 1st rounder. Unless things just suddenly click, like say a Nick Fairley. I think what's more important is that the coaching staff knows they were getting 3-4 years out of them max, so it was a waste of time to redshirt either one of them - you know they ain't staying 5 years. They'll either sign a free agent contract or quit before then.

Plus, I think the coaches knew they needed some more depth at DT last season.

[TrueMaroon]

this year, there is no way they are going to the NFL in year 3. Imagine how that conversation goes between Mullen and Nick/Quay-

Coach, Im declaring.

Coach Mullen- For what?

The draft.

Coach Mullen- Military?

No, the NFL.

Coach Mullen-LULZ.



What NFL scout will go into a war room and tell his boss to draft someone who isnt a starter?

[TrueMaroon]

If it were baseball, I could probably buy it due to guys getting drafted based on talent all the time.

Most NFL scouts buy into this motto- Fat guys stay fat, hurt guys stay hurt. There are plenty of guys who can handle moving around at ~340- Kyle Love positioned himself into a starting DT doing just that, but Nick hasnt shown he can play consistently at this weight.

[Coach34]

What NFL scout will go into a war room and tell his boss to draft someone who isnt a starter?

Nick Fairly went from a nobody to a top 5 pick in one season.

These guys have incredible talent- they just have to mature and work. The maturing process has been slower than anticipated.

[maroonmania]

Nick Fairly went from a nobody to a top 5 pick in one season.

These guys have incredible talent- they just have to mature and work. The maturing process has been slower than anticipated.

True, but wasn't he a JUCO player? He really didn't have a chance to show out against good competition until the one year he played at a D1 school.

[Todd4State]

Both of these players are sophomores. They have time to figure it out, and from all accounts it appears as if they are both making progress even if they aren't quite finished products yet. Everyone wants them to be Warren Sapp 2.0 on day one, but that doesn't happen very often even at Alabama.

[Todd4State]

True, but wasn't he a JUCO player? He really didn't have a chance to show out against good competition until the one year he played at a D1 school.

Well, Quay and Nick haven't really had a chance either since they were forced to sit behind Cherry for a year. And don't give me the maturity didn't know the plays BS either. Barrett Jones had trouble blocking Nick James (I think it might have been Quay). Quay performed when we actually let him play. They should have played more last year for all intents and purposes.

[Coach34]

True, but wasn't he a JUCO player? He really didn't have a chance to show out against good competition until the one year he played at a D1 school.

Fairley played 2 seasons at Auburn- only made 2 starts his Jr year in 2009
2010? He won the Lombardi Award

Alot can change for these guys in just 1 season

[engie]

True, but wasn't he a JUCO player? He really didn't have a chance to show out against good competition until the one year he played at a D1 school.

He played 2 years at Auburn and you never heard of him in the first one...Just further makes the same point...

At some point a light bulb either comes on or it doesn't. For Fletcher Cox, even, it didn't really happen until his JR year(well, it actually became clear in his soph spring how good he would be)... He showed flashes in year 1 and year 2 sure(and played ALOT more snaps -- which speaks to the depth that we've accumulated) -- but he didn't put it all together. And he wasn't faced with some of the issues that James and Quay are...

People need to be patient with their development -- as long as we're getting good production from the position, which I expect with Eulls and PJ...

[biggun]

Well, Quay and Nick haven't really had a chance either since they were forced to sit behind Cherry for a year. And don't give me the maturity didn't know the plays BS either. Barrett Jones had trouble blocking Nick James (I think it might have been Quay). Quay performed when we actually let him play. They should have played more last year for all intents and purposes.

Quay and Nick struggled off the field at times last year - the classroom being one of them, which led to their lack of playing time. Let's hope we don't have a repeat this year.

[HIGHDOG]

the one guy NOT IN this conversation is turner...i've been told that he's sick to death of both...tom

[Rick Danko]

So based off of all this conversation, what are we doing recruiting wise to remedy this situation. I have heard they could leave next year because they are that good and if a light turns on, they are gone. If they stay til year 4, no way in hell they are playing a 5th year, be it free agent signing or whatever. Hear they have issues and may never make the switch. Now, Turner is sick of them both. With any of these items being the case, why are we not focusing on 2-3 defensive tackles in this class? (eta: maybe we are and I just have not heard, but what little I have kept up, seems our main focus has been OL)

[Political Hack]

the one guy NOT IN this conversation is turner...i've been told that he's sick to death of both...tom

welcome High! that's not good. everything I've heard has been fairly positive on Quay, but if Turner is getting aggrevated with him that's a pretty good indicator.

[maroonmania]

He played 2 years at Auburn and you never heard of him in the first one...Just further makes the same point...

At some point a light bulb either comes on or it doesn't. For Fletcher Cox, even, it didn't really happen until his JR year(well, it actually became clear in his soph spring how good he would be)... He showed flashes in year 1 and year 2 sure(and played ALOT more snaps -- which speaks to the depth that we've accumulated) -- but he didn't put it all together. And he wasn't faced with some of the issues that James and Quay are...

People need to be patient with their development -- as long as we're getting good production from the position, which I expect with Eulls and PJ...

Yes, biggest thing that Cox had that apparently Quay and Nick don't have is a tremendous work ethic and desire to be great. Guess that is really the light that needs to click on.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Was Templeton Hardy just lazy for the 5 years he held a scholarship and wasn't he highly recruited out of high school? Seems to me that Dan will not play someone that won't put any effort in no matter how highly you were rated coming in. Hopefully the message is getting through.

[Todd4State]

Quay and Nick struggled off the field at times last year - the classroom being one of them, which led to their lack of playing time. Let's hope we don't have a repeat this year.

Which again was stupid. You don't hurt the team by putting a guy out there that can't get the job done because he did "everything right in practice". I would have been OK with rewarding Cherry by giving him the starting nod- which would have reinforced his good work ethic and given him the spotlight- but we should have played Quay,Nick, and PJ WAY more than we did.

Chris was also extremely over the top strict at times as well- this is something that doesn't get discussed a lot as well.

[Todd4State]

Was Templeton Hardy just lazy for the 5 years he held a scholarship and wasn't he highly recruited out of high school? Seems to me that Dan will not play someone that won't put any effort in no matter how highly you were rated coming in. Hopefully the message is getting through.

I don't think he was that highly recruited at all. He was rated five stars for some unexplainable reason. It was questioned when he was being recruited. My guess is since he is from North Panola Yancy probably figured that they were going to get him and over rated him and then he commits to MSU and thus began the spin cycle.

And why wouldn't we keep him around? We needed o-linemen even if they were warm bodies to practice against.

[maroonmania]

Which again was stupid. You don't hurt the team by putting a guy out there that can't get the job done because he did "everything right in practice". I would have been OK with rewarding Cherry by giving him the starting nod- which would have reinforced his good work ethic and given him the spotlight- but we should have played Quay,Nick, and PJ WAY more than we did.

Chris was also extremely over the top strict at times as well- this is something that doesn't get discussed a lot as well.

That classroom thing has kind of puzzled me in that I thought it was reported here or somewhere that Quay, at least, was doing very well academically.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Templeton Hardy was rated highly as a DT. If I'm not mistaken, he was a four-star DT. I thought he should have remained at DT.

As far as Chris Wilson being "extremely over the top strict" goes, I don't believe there is a such thing. No such thing as being too strict when we're talking about athletic competition. People may say Saban is "too strict", but that's what sets him apart - demanding excellence.

Just my opinion ....

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

I think templeton had an offer from oklahoma

[engie]

Templeton Hardy was rated highly as a DT. If I'm not mistaken, he was a four-star DT. I thought he should have remained at DT.

As far as Chris Wilson being "extremely over the top strict" goes, I don't believe there is a such thing. No such thing as being too strict when we're talking about athletic competition. People may say Saban is "too strict", but that's what sets him apart - demanding excellence.

Just my opinion ....

So, him taking away cell phones of DL players on game weekends -- when the rest of the team got to keep theirs including the rest of the defense that he was in charge of -- wouldn't be considered "over the top strict"?

That's noncongruent -- and basically guarantees that players don't respect you. Top it off by getting into PUBLIC shouting matches with the physical and emotional leaders on our defense because they see your shitty scheme isn't working after trying, repeatedly, to get you to change things to help the team as well as them personally -- and what you've got is certainly "too strict"... AND it "lost him" the defense last year...It's so obvious in hindsight that the team quit on him.

[Coach34]

That classroom thing has kind of puzzled me in that I thought it was reported here or somewhere that Quay, at least, was doing very well academically.


Quay is a very good student. Hell, he graduated early

[SheltonChoked]

Even if they don't go pro after 3 years, How many people think they will stay 5 years? I don't. Then it is better to have them play 4 rather than 3. That's why they didn't redshirt.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

James played ok last yeAr but every time quay was in he was in the backfield shortly aftee. He caused several fumbles and recoveries. He is a beast

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

The problem was wilson. The team followed banks lead and banks was against wilsons calls. There was a lot of internal shit going down on defense last year. Or so I hear.....

[Todd4State]

Templeton Hardy was rated highly as a DT. If I'm not mistaken, he was a four-star DT. I thought he should have remained at DT.

As far as Chris Wilson being "extremely over the top strict" goes, I don't believe there is a such thing. No such thing as being too strict when we're talking about athletic competition. People may say Saban is "too strict", but that's what sets him apart - demanding excellence.

Just my opinion ....

What engie said. Saban is tough on everyone on the team. And he sure as hell won't penalize the entire team by playing a walk-on or someone that shouldn't play every down just because that player does everything he is asked to do.

[engie]

The problem was wilson. The team followed banks lead and banks was against wilsons calls. There was a lot of internal shit going down on defense last year. Or so I hear.....

Exactly...

Could you imagine being a "leader" on a team trying to play in that scheme last year knowing how it was hurting the team and basically everyone as individuals? There was a disconnect there that wasn't going to be fixed as long as Wilson was calling plays and maybe never...

I didn't see it at the time and actually took up for Wilson prior to the Egg Bowl loss -- but I see it clearly in hindsight, especially as more and more leaks out about the players' relationships with him...

You can listen to PJ Jones in a recent interview talking about the differences in the coaching styles between the two -- and basically tell that he hated Wilson without ever actually saying it...

[TrueMaroon]

Its not fair to compare either player to Fletcher. Fletcher was the definition of FREAK. Quay and Nick dont arent the same type dlineman.

Fletcher added 50 pounds of full grown man to his frame to make him what he was, and he still ran a 4.7.

Quay and Nick are having to take it off and arent nearly on his level after year one. Chris Wilson told several people Fletcher was a 3 year player 1st round pick after his first spring. Ive yet to see or hear anything close to that on Quay and Nick.

[MSUDawg4Life]

What engie said. Saban is tough on everyone on the team. And he sure as hell won't penalize the entire team by playing a walk-on or someone that shouldn't play every down just because that player does everything he is asked to do.

Saban's a head coach. Wilson was a defensive coordinator. Not surprising that Saban is tough on everyone on the team while Wilson couldn't be. I still don't have a problem with being tough on a team.

We can and have debated Wilson's personnel decisions or strategy decisions, but that doesn't have anything to do with being tough. Those are separate issues.

[engie]

Saban's a head coach. Wilson was a defensive coordinator. Not surprising that Saban is tough on everyone on the team while Wilson couldn't be. I still don't have a problem with being tough on a team.

We can and have debated Wilson's personnel decisions or strategy decisions, but that doesn't have anything to do with being tough. Those are separate issues.

Where has anyone said "they didn't like wilson because he was tough?" You are off on a tangent here.

Saban over a team = Saban tough on the team. Wilson over a defense = Wilson being tough on the DL in matters OUTSIDE of football while not enforcing the same rules on everyone else he's in charge of. Saban = congruent. Wilson = double-standard.

No one is complaining about Wilson "being tough" on the team. We're complaining about him treating his position group BADLY/differently than the rest of the defense -- being an idiot -- and then totally losing control of the defense.

"Tough" only works if you execute it correctly -- and treat everyone fairly. Do it wrong, and it'll lose you a team in about 5 seconds. Wilson did it wrong.

[Todd4State]

Saban's a head coach. Wilson was a defensive coordinator. Not surprising that Saban is tough on everyone on the team while Wilson couldn't be. I still don't have a problem with being tough on a team.

We can and have debated Wilson's personnel decisions or strategy decisions, but that doesn't have anything to do with being tough. Those are separate issues.

I'm all for being tough. I think Dan is tough on our team as well. Same with Hevesey if you want a non-head coach example. But I'm not for crossing the line to the point where guys don't perform for you or it causes a coach to make poor personnel decisions in the name of "discipline". That was part of what was going on with Chris.

Even Vince Lombardi had to relent at times so that he wouldn't lose his team. He had Paul Hornung on his teams and he was about as big a party animal as there ever was in the NFL. Yet he still started despite the fact that I'm sure he broke a few team rules here and there.

But with Chris it all goes back to being hard headed and the sad thing is I think Quay and Nick kind of get caught in the crossfire unfairly.