FedEx getting behind a Memphis-to-Big 12 campaign....

[Taog Redloh]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/15502359/documents-show-big-12-flirting-houston-memphis-ucf-colorado-state-expansion

I for one would rather not enable another competitor in our direct vicinity. I also don't think Memphis offers that much. I think they should go Houston and then West.

Either way, I think eventually, the Big 12 will falter.

[nsvltndog]

If the Big 12 adds teams like Memphis, UConn, Houston, Cincy, UCF, etc, I tend to think they will eventually lose Oklahoma and Texas to either the Pac 12, SEC, or Big 10.

If Memphis does join the Big 12, we should schedule them somewhat regularly to meet the SEC rule of having 1 Power 5 non-conference opponent every year.

[Howboutdemdogs]

I think the Big12 should revert back to the old Southwest Conference. Also, this refers to the ACC and the Big East, with original members. Make some sanity of the conference's geographic locations.

[RocketDawg]

I think the Big12 should revert back to the old Southwest Conference. Also, this refers to the ACC and the Big East, with original members. Make some sanity of the conference's geographic locations.

The ACC actually did have only members from states that touched the Atlantic Ocean until recently. I think the addition of Louisville was the first to break that "rule", and without looking, may still be the only one (Notre Dame is only a semi-member). Only problem is the Atlantic coast runs from south Florida all the way up to northern Maine, so it covers a huge geographic area.

The same argument could be made for the Pac 12 (or whatever it is now) since schools like Colorado, Utah, and both Arizona schools aren't on the west coast. The conference names are sorta meaningless now.

I suppose one could argue that Missouri is sort of a southern state, but it's not southeast. Texas is southern, but not southeastern either. And the Big 12 has 10 schools and the Big 10 has 12 schools (I think). Odd.

[EAVdog]

Houston actually has a good bit going for it. Very nice facilities, brand new football stadium.

[Reason2succeed]

Houston actually has a good bit going for it. Very nice facilities, brand new football stadium.

I liked the old Robertson stadium better. TDECU Stadium looks like a tin can.

On the other hand, Memphis isn't ready for big time yet. Let's see if they can replace Fuente with a decent coach.

No one in any conference including the SEC wants another in conference team in their geographical vicinity to compete with them in recruiting. That's why ATM will block Houston, OM will block Memphis, and every other school will fight to keep any school in their same state or 500 mile radius from being added. That's how we got ATM and Missouri.

If we want to do something force Notre Dame, BYU, and the service academies to join conferences. They're all good schools with "decent" programs. Okay, Army sucks on a regular basis but I would be proud to have them in the SEC because they're the US Army dammit.

[Todd4State]

I think Memphis joining the Big 12 would hurt Ole Miss more than anyone else. I think it would be more positive for us because we could schedule them as our power five opponent and not have to ever schedule BYU again. Plus, I think it would probably help our baseball team because their RPI and program would likely improve some.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think Memphis joining the Big 12 would hurt Ole Miss more than anyone else. I think it would be more positive for us because we could schedule them as our power five opponent and not have to ever schedule BYU again. Plus, I think it would probably help our baseball team because their RPI and program would likely improve some.

Until Memphis agrees to play us in basketball - **** Tiger High. They want all the benefits we offer in football and baseball but refuse to give us the rub in their sport. No more getting to have it both ways. Play us in hoops or not at all.

[BulldogBear]

Houston actually has a good bit going for it. Very nice facilities, brand new football stadium.

Third largest school in Texas also

[HailState39110]

Third largest school in Texas also

Big 12 needs to expand in the Mountain West region . BYU and Boise St would be nice additions

[RocketDawg]

I think Memphis joining the Big 12 would hurt Ole Miss more than anyone else. I think it would be more positive for us because we could schedule them as our power five opponent and not have to ever schedule BYU again. Plus, I think it would probably help our baseball team because their RPI and program would likely improve some.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Memphis is literally in their back yard and OM does a lot of recruiting there. Plus ... Memphis beats them in FB regularly .... ;) The only problem is if we played Memphis, I hate going there for a game. I went several years ago when it was so hot, they put our players in an uncooled dressing room, and our fans (which outnumbered their fans) directly in the hot sun. It was well over 100 degrees that day.

[Bully13]

Are you talking about the game when Jackie was still our coach. Cuz I remember being there and reading about no ac.

Also I went to watch us play them in baseball in the early 90's I think. And I'm not exaggerating 1 bit when I say I thought it was a high school stadium. Have they improved that?

[RocketDawg]

Are you talking about the game when Jackie was still our coach. Cuz I remember being there and reading about no ac.

Also I went to watch us play them in baseball in the early 90's I think. And I'm not exaggerating 1 bit when I say I thought it was a high school stadium. Have they improved that?

Yes, it was in Jackie's tenure. Must've been early 2000s because I remember we left Memphis and drove to New Orleans to visit my son who was in grad school at Tulane, and he graduated MSU in 2000. Probably was in 2001.

Never have seen their baseball stadium, but I wouldn't expect much.

[QuadrupleOption]

Yes, it was in Jackie's tenure. Must've been early 2000s because I remember we left Memphis and drove to New Orleans to visit my son who was in grad school at Tulane, and he graduated MSU in 2000. Probably was in 2001.

Never have seen their baseball stadium, but I wouldn't expect much.

It was 2000. I remember because my seats were up in the nosebleeds and I had to climb all the way up there in the 100 degree heat. I thought I was going to die. Without looking it up, I think we won that game 17-10.

Miserable. 2001 we played at MSU - we had to block a punt for a TD and score a couple more times in the 4th quarter to win that one.

[paindonthurt]

0

[Jack Lambert]

I think the Big12 should revert back to the old Southwest Conference. Also, this refers to the ACC and the Big East, with original members. Make some sanity of the conference's geographic locations.

I think Pride will keep Texas from ever joining the SEC.

[OdaMaeBrown]

Houston will be considered, but the Big 12 has Texas covered. They don't need another Texas team that brings nothing to the table. Memphis themselves may not control a market, but they would put the Big 12 in a new market and don't kid yourself, Fred Smith money talks. Memphis may not get in, but they will be one of the last out if not. They see the writing on the wall that if they don't get into a descent conference, they won't be viable much longer.

This will hurt OM much more than us anyway, so we should be rooting for it, not to mention we play them alot, so we can use that as our P5 opponent and get a fairly easy win.

[BB30]

Are you talking about the game when Jackie was still our coach. Cuz I remember being there and reading about no ac.

Also I went to watch us play them in baseball in the early 90's I think. And I'm not exaggerating 1 bit when I say I thought it was a high school stadium. Have they improved that?

You would be surprised at what most college baseball stadiums around the country look like outside of the SEC and maybe your bigger ACC players. Attendance drops extremely quickly once you get out of the top 30 or so programs. We are very fortunate to have the fan support and facilities that we do for baseball along with the rest of the SEC. I wouldn't be surprised if average attendance at most schools is around 1000 people or less.

[Maroonthirteen]

Houston will be considered, but the Big 12 has Texas covered. They don't need another Texas team that brings nothing to the table. Memphis themselves may not control a market, but they would put the Big 12 in a new market and don't kid yourself, Fred Smith money talks. Memphis may not get in, but they will be one of the last out if not. They see the writing on the wall that if they don't get into a descent conference, they won't be viable much longer.

This will hurt OM much more than us anyway, so we should be rooting for it, not to mention we play them alot, so we can use that as our P5 opponent and get a fairly easy win.


Yeah I agree it is about TV markets. But any conference adding Memphis or UCF or Houston is desperate and on the decline. If a conference wants TV VIEWERS NATION WIDE, a conference will add NATIONAL BRAND programs so as to have matchups of NATIONAL INTEREST. Oklahoma v Memphis? Nobody is watching that outside the state of OK and the city of Memphis. Oklahoma vs Bama or USC? That is a national audience. Oklahoma and TX better bounce from the big12.

But on the topic of Memphis.....Ill give the city of Memphis this. It is an SEC football town in the fall. HOWEVER, if Memphis had a current Big12 football schedule....this town would be a Memphis football town! Every bar in town would be tuned into Memphis rather the SEC during Memphis game times. It would absolutely change the direction of Memphis football program. I agree also this would effect OM more than other SEC member. The Memphis media (which spans across most of North MS) covers OM football as much or more than Memphis....this would push Memphis above OM on TV sets in Memphis AND N. Mississippi. Also recruiting......it would be a blow to OM's recruiting in Memphis. HOWEVER, there would be some effect on us and USM too.....I believe Memphis (in some years) would make in roads in MS recruiting and would take anyone they wanted from USM and maybe a few from us.

With all that said........I see Big12 football going the way of Big East basketball if IF the Big12 is so desperate to start adding commuter and directional schools. Therefore the effect on Memphis football remains to be seen.

[Tbonewannabe]

I think Pride will keep Texas from ever joining the SEC.

I think A&M will prevent UT from joining the SEC. That wasn't a clean break up. UT basically dared A&M to leave then got pissed that it happened. If the Big 12 goes down, I think UT joins the Pac 12.

[Tbonewannabe]

You would be surprised at what most college baseball stadiums around the country look like outside of the SEC and maybe your bigger ACC players. Attendance drops extremely quickly once you get out of the top 30 or so programs. We are very fortunate to have the fan support and facilities that we do for baseball along with the rest of the SEC. I wouldn't be surprised if average attendance at most schools is around 1000 people or less.

When Ron Polk went to UGA, they had around 750 season ticket holders. That is insane since not only were they in the SEC's most populated state but had also won a National Title in 1990. MSU fans not only love our team but the fans know baseball and appreciate the sport. You just look at the Missouri pitcher that came off the field to a standing ovation for his great performance.

[Taog Redloh]

Wishful thinking. It would hurt Ole Miss, but hurt us too. We recruit a lot, players AND students, in Memphis. We don't need more competition.

[Tbonewannabe]

If the Big 12 adds Houston, I would be surprised. Houston adds nothing but a decent program to the conference. It almost has zero affect on TV. Memphis actually would be better for the conference itself. The Big 12 doesn't need another team from Texas. BYU and maybe Boise St might be the overall best choices.

I would prefer Memphis not get in because it would negatively affect MSU but it would be a great thing for the city of Memphis.

[AusTexDawg]

I think Pride will keep Texas from ever joining the SEC.

You are correct. Texas considers itself too academically high-minded to join the SEC (but continues to live in the Big XII after two of the better academic programs left). The other reply to your post is correct about A&M not wanting to go back to being little brother within their own conference.

[ckDOG]

Memphis to the Big 12 would just mean the Big 12 is one step closer to folding and having their name programs flock to better conferences. Memphis is not part of a legitimate long-term conference expansion. I've been hearing that FedEx is going to get Memphis into the Big East or Big 12 for over a decade now. Maybe it happens now, but that's pretty much a clear sign the Big 12 has no intention of being a major conference for much longer into the future.

[AusTexDawg]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/15502359/documents-show-big-12-flirting-houston-memphis-ucf-colorado-state-expansion

I for one would rather not enable another competitor in our direct vicinity. I also don't think Memphis offers that much. I think they should go Houston and then West.

Either way, I think eventually, the Big 12 will falter.

Houston's program and facilities are on the rise, but no one in the Big XII wants Cougar High. Unless the UH gets some push from their state legislature or the Longhorns leave for another conference and UH fills their spot, Houston will not join the Big XII. They bring neither new TV viewers nor new recruiting territory.

Going west makes some sense for football, less so for the other sports.

The Big XII whiffed when they picked West Virginia instead of going with OU President Boren's choice of Louisville, which has turned out to be a pretty strong athletics program in the big sports. If they had added Louisville, coming back and adding Cincinnati and either BYU or Memphis to get back to 12 would've made more sense than trying to have a league that stretches from Morgantown, West Virginia to Provo, UT.

Having said that, I can't imagine the rest of the Big XII wants to deal with both Texas and BYU, two programs that appear to consider themselves to be more special than everyone else, at the same time.

West Virginia should've gone to the ACC. They could realign divisions so that almost the entire original Big East could be in one division and the traditional ACC+Florida State could be in the other.

[Reason2succeed]

It was 2000. I remember because my seats were up in the nosebleeds and I had to climb all the way up there in the 100 degree heat. I thought I was going to die. Without looking it up, I think we won that game 17-10.

Miserable. 2001 we played at MSU - we had to block a punt for a TD and score a couple more times in the 4th quarter to win that one.

I was wearing a thick cotton Famous Maroon Band uniform that day. Thanks for reminding me.***

[Taog Redloh]

Memphis to the Big 12 would just mean the Big 12 is one step closer to folding and having their name programs flock to better conferences. Memphis is not part of a legitimate long-term conference expansion. I've been hearing that FedEx is going to get Memphis into the Big East or Big 12 for over a decade now. Maybe it happens now, but that's pretty much a clear sign the Big 12 has no intention of being a major conference for much longer into the future.
I tend to agree. People love to think that the conference makes the teams....but it's the exact opposite. Teams make the conference. The conference doesn't have power without the teams in it AND....a good revenue sharing model. At the end of the day, a program is no better than it's individual support from its own fanbase. Fedex worries me a little though, can't lie. But I still don't think they have the sheer numbers needed.

[Taog Redloh]

Houston's program and facilities are on the rise, but no one in the Big XII wants Cougar High. Unless the UH gets some push from their state legislature or the Longhorns leave for another conference and UH fills their spot, Houston will not join the Big XII. They bring neither new TV viewers nor new recruiting territory.
I know you TX folks like to feel some superiority, but Houston is the best program available for expansion. I know TV eyes is the determining factor, but that doesn't mean the determining factor is correct. Ask the B1G if Rutgers and Maryland were really worth it. You need quantity AND quality. I'd value quality over quantity too, honestly. Houston has more tradition and a bigger fanbase than the others except maybe BYU. Fitting in with the conference also matters, which brings me to this:


Going west makes some sense for football, less so for the other sports.
It absolutely makes the most sense.


The Big XII whiffed when they picked West Virginia instead of going with OU President Boren's choice of Louisville, which has turned out to be a pretty strong athletics program in the big sports. If they had added Louisville, coming back and adding Cincinnati and either BYU or Memphis to get back to 12 would've made more sense than trying to have a league that stretches from Morgantown, West Virginia to Provo, UT.

Having said that, I can't imagine the rest of the Big XII wants to deal with both Texas and BYU, two programs that appear to consider themselves to be more special than everyone else, at the same time.

West Virginia should've gone to the ACC. They could realign divisions so that almost the entire original Big East could be in one division and the traditional ACC+Florida State could be in the other.
I agree with most of this, except I would not have added Louisville either. Neither they nor West Virginia fit. The Big 12 had a great conference when it had Nebraska, Missouri and Texas A&M. Arkansas fits in better out there too. Unfortunately for them they couldn't get the revenue right. Now, picking up the pieces, the solution is to only go west and tap into the next frontier of fans. The population is booming out there. I would look for BYU and Boise State after Houston. Colorado State and/or New Mexico isn't a bad option either. You add whole states AND up/coming schools.

[AusTexDawg]

I know you TX folks like to feel some superiority, but Houston is the best program available for expansion.

First of all, I'm from Mississippi, I just live in Texas. I do appreciate you not referring to me as a Texan, though. :cool:

I agree that Houston is the best program available, but since Texas is leading Tech and TCU around by the nose in this process, I don't think this trio sees elevating Houston as being in their best interest (even if that's a false assumption on their part).

Louisville doesn't fit culturally or geographically in the Big XII, but at the time of the last expansion, they were the best overall program left on the board that didn't require the special arrangements made for Notre Dame.

I think that from a common sense standpoint, Colorado State makes sense since they've actually been a better football program than CU was for most its last decade in the Big XII and the location is right. New Mexico would be interesting as it is actually closer to Tech than Austin and half of the other Big XII schools. I have no idea what the TV market looks like, but I've never really seen any sportswriter or university president put UNMw in the expansion discussion.

Since we're at the point where schools such as Cincinnati or Boise State are being discussed for the Big XII, I almost wish the SEC had traded Arkansas and a player to be named later for A&M and called it a day.

[Taog Redloh]

First of all, I'm from Mississippi, I just live in Texas. I do appreciate you not referring to me as a Texan, though. :cool:

I agree that Houston is the best program available, but since Texas is leading Tech and TCU around by the nose in this process, I don't think this trio sees elevating Houston as being in their best interest (even if that's a false assumption on their part).

Louisville doesn't fit culturally or geographically in the Big XII, but at the time of the last expansion, they were the best overall program left on the board that didn't require the special arrangements made for Notre Dame.

I think that from a common sense standpoint, Colorado State makes sense since they've actually been a better football program than CU was for most its last decade in the Big XII and the location is right. New Mexico would be interesting as it is actually closer to Tech than Austin and half of the other Big XII schools. I have no idea what the TV market looks like, but I've never really seen any sportswriter or university president put UNMw in the expansion discussion.

Since we're at the point where schools such as Cincinnati or Boise State are being discussed for the Big XII, I almost wish the SEC had traded Arkansas and a player to be named later for A&M and called it a day.

Yes, I know my opinions aren't popular but I like to pretend that my outside-the-box ideas are valid. I don't like to go along with the sheep trend because simply put, once it becomes a trend.....it's too late. The time to establish TV viewers was BEFORE conference realignment, not after. And I'm willing to bet that the next round of alignment will be based on QUALITY matchups ie entertainment, not TV eyes. Thus, the route I would take as a commissioner would be going after the highest quality available that ALL eyes within the conference would rather see. I personally think more people would watch Texas vs. Houston than Texas vs. West Virginia. JMHO.

Ultimately owning the state of Texas could do wonders for the Big 12. And as the population increases out west, I would not be surprised to see more sustained programs from the likes of Boise State, Nevada, and New Mexico among others. BYU is already big enough.

[AusTexDawg]

Ultimately owning the state of Texas could do wonders for the Big 12. And as the population increases out west, I would not be surprised to see more sustained programs from the likes of Boise State, Nevada, and New Mexico among others. BYU is already big enough.

^Good series of posts.

To your point, I've been surprised that Nevada and/or UNLV haven't come up much in previous expansion discussions in the media simply because of the size and recently historic growth rate of Las Vegas/Clark County, NV. Maybe it's the association with <gasp> gambling, but it doesn't make sense with the expansion of casinos and lotteries across nationwide. Nevada had a very entertaining football program a few years ago.

[Taog Redloh]

^Good series of posts.

To your point, I've been surprised that Nevada and/or UNLV haven't come up much in previous expansion discussions in the media simply because of the size and recently historic growth rate of Las Vegas/Clark County, NV. Maybe it's the association with <gasp> gambling, but it doesn't make sense with the expansion of casinos and lotteries across nationwide. Nevada had a very entertaining football program a few years ago.

I think a big point of emphasis is not just who is good NOW, but who WILL be good (or have the potential to be good) 10 years from now. I may be overestimating some of those western schools, but I bet in about 20 years some of them will have risen. Just my off-the-wall prediction. I mean, people saw Utah as a mid-major until they got good and the Pac-12 gave them a shot. Boise is in the same mold but I think they've been passed over since they aren't Big State U.

[Bothrops]

I think the Big12 should revert back to the old Southwest Conference. Also, this refers to the ACC and the Big East, with original members. Make some sanity of the conference's geographic locations.

Conference realignment has done away with some geographical commonality. They ought to think about renaming some of the big conferences, instead of trying to rebrand them. Which is futile for the Big 12.