Bear spin question

[Gordon Gekko]

Bears have been saying that Tunsil's draft day admission can't be used because it wasn't said directly to an NCAA investigator. First is this accurate? Second, I would argue it was said directly to an NCAA investigator as well as the 10 million people watching live.

I can understand not accepting hearsay, but it was said by Tunsil on live tv. That's not hearsay.

[Dawgbite]

Just roll that beautiful bean footage and its no longer hearsay.

[Coach34]

The NCAA is going to use it to penalize- it just won't be directly mentioned in a document

The NCAA doesn't have line-item penalties for the breaking of a particular rule

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

Bears have been saying that Tunsil's draft day admission can't be used because it wasn't said directly to an NCAA investigator. First is this accurate? Second, I would argue it was said directly to an NCAA investigator as well as the 10 million people watching live.

I can understand not accepting hearsay, but it was said by Tunsil on live tv. That's not hearsay.

This is true. I highly doubt the NCAA will "prove" it as crazy as that sounds. The NCAA will only take comments said directly to them in an investigation, similar to a deposition in court. It matters what you say out of the NCAA's court, but it wont be specifically listed in charges if they cant prove it. Rather, it will be used to give the highest possible punishment for the charges they CAN prove.

[Mjoelner34]

How do you think it'd play in court if you confessed to murder on camera during in an interview and it wasn't a detective interviewing you? I'm pretty sure you'd still be heading to the big house. Especially if evidence corroborated your confession. Now, the NCAA doesn't require as much evidence as a court of law. They are the judge and jury so yes, they can use it and you can bet they're waiting on the paperwork to verify those payments. In the meantime, UNM must be having a hard time getting Tunsil to sign and back-date the paperwork or it would already be all over the place.

First, UNM said they would actively investigate any payments that Tunsil spilled the beans about the other night. Then, their spin doctors say that it's not only old news but its legal and they have the documents. That second sentence couldn't be further from the truth. If it were legal and old news, then they would have the paperwork but they don't. The reason you know this is because it would have been all over the NFL draft 10 minutes after Tunsil made that statement. Instead, Freezus vanishes (or ascends) back to Oxford or somewhere not to be seen nor heard from again and Bdork cancels an appearance on a radio program the next morning and hasn't been seen nor heard from since then either. And, we still haven't seen the first document. Not even a fake, back-dated one.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

How do you think it'd play in court if you confessed to murder on camera during in an interview and it wasn't a detective interviewing you? I'm pretty sure you'd still be heading to the big house. Especially if evidence corroborated your confession. Now, the NCAA doesn't require as much evidence as a court of law. They are the judge and jury so yes, they can use it and you can bet they're waiting on the paperwork to verify those payments. In the meantime, UNM must be having a hard time getting Tunsil to sign and back-date the paperwork or it would already be all over the place.

First, UNM said they would actively investigate any payments that Tunsil spilled the beans about the other night. Then, their spin doctors say that it's not only old news but its legal and they have the documents. That second sentence couldn't be further from the truth. If it were legal and old news, then they would have the paperwork but they don't. The reason you know this is because it would have been all over the NFL draft 10 minutes after Tunsil made that statement. Instead, Freezus vanishes (or ascends) back to Oxford or somewhere not to be seen nor heard from again and Bdork cancels an appearance on a radio program the next morning and hasn't been seen nor heard from since then either. And, we still haven't seen the first document. Not even a fake, back-dated one.

In a court, they would subpoena the person who confessed to murder and grill the ever living piss out of them and pick apart his answers during a deposition. The NCAA cant subpoena Tunsil.

[CadaverDawg]

The NCAA doesn't have to prove anything to hand down punishment. They do not have to follow court rules.

[BSME04]

When has the NCAA ever needed proof?

[Mjoelner34]

The NCAA cant subpoena Tunsil. No they can't but, unlike a court of law, the NCAA can take his statement at face value and draw their own conclusion. Thus, as I said, they are both judge and jury.

[Really Clark?]

What the admission allows the NCAA to do is interview John Miller and the university and require them to produce all documents, messages, etc. concerning this incident and any other athelete that has had similar requests. If they don't produce ALL information and/or lie or cover this up then it is automatic guilt and no matter how small the actual infraction is, the with holding, lying, covering up, etc becomes a Level 1 aggravated violation and carries the stiffest penalties.

[Reason2succeed]

So in light of the Tunsil confession do you think the NCAA is still buying the butt dialing croots excuse?***

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

No they can't but, unlike a court of law, the NCAA can take his statement at face value and draw their own conclusion. Thus, as I said, they are both judge and jury.

Im agreeing with this. I doubt it will be listed as a proven charge, but it won't matter at the end of the day. It will be a de facto inclusion.

[AROB44]

The NCAA doesn't have to prove anything to hand down punishment. They do not have to follow court rules.

Why can't people understand this. An NCAA investigation is not bound by the rules of a court of law. They do not have to prove anything.....And taking them to a court is a waste of time. They are a voluntary organization....if you do not like their rules, you can withdraw from the organization. This is not rocket science folks.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

Why can't people understand this. An NCAA investigation is not bound by the rules of a court of law. They do not have to prove anything.....And taking them to a court is a waste of time. They are a voluntary organization....if you do not like their rules, you can withdraw from the organization. This is not rocket science folks.

Who doesnt understand this?

[Coach34]

Who doesnt understand this?

a helluva lot of OM fans

[AlmostPositive]

Who doesnt understand this?

Any number of desperate deflecting delusional Ole Miss fans.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

a helluva lot of OM fans

LOL. That's definitely true.

Pls no one mistake what Im saying. They will be punished just as hard as if it were specifically listed in charges. Since they don't have subpoena power that gives the cheaters an advantage. However this is also the reason the NCAA just won't list a charge if they haven't spoken to all parties, yet STILL hammer the piss out of you. If they believed it happened you're getting nailed.

[BayouDawg]

I bet that when the penalties come down the ole miss fans are gonna cry about how they should should leave the NCAA and cry for a bunch of other schools to follow them. It's gonna be glorious

[Really Clark?]

LOL. That's definitely true.

Pls no one mistake what Im saying. They will be punished just as hard as if it were specifically listed in charges. Since they don't have subpoena power that gives the cheaters an advantage. However this is also the reason the NCAA just won't list a charge if they haven't spoken to all parties, yet STILL hammer the piss out of you. If they believed it happened you're getting nailed.

Why are you assuming this won't be a specifically listed charge at some point? It could end up being added with this NOA since Tunsil is already a part of it but it could be with a completely new investigation

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

Why are you assuming this won't be a specifically listed charge at some point? It could end up being added with this NOA since Tunsil is already a part of it but it could be with a completely new investigation

Because i seriously doubt John Miller or Barney Farrar admit to paying players when questioned by NCAA about Tunsil, and we already know Tunsil isn't talking.

[Really Clark?]

Because i seriously doubt John Miller or Barney Farrar admit to paying players when questioned by NCAA about Tunsil, and we already know Tunsil isn't talking.

The player has already admitted it. It's now up to Miller and the university to prove their innocence through documentation including text messages. If they refuse it's automatic guilt. Saunders stopped cooperating and got an 8 year show cause because of the refusal to cooperate. This little press conference has opened up Pandora box and why we are on day 5 of official statement watch. Remember Bjork came out for an exclusive interview shortly after Forde wrote that the university had received a NOA and was keeping it hidden.

ETA. There is also an assumption being made that Miller and Farrar haven't been interviewed prior and they have already exposed themselves and the university with a lie or cover up of any knowledge of improper benefits.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

The player has already admitted it. It's now up to Miller and the university to prove their innocence through documentation including text messages. If they refuse it's automatic guilt. Saunders stopped cooperating and got an 8 year show cause because of the refusal to cooperate. This little press conference has opened up Pandora box and why we are on day 5 of official statement watch. Remember Bjork came out for an exclusive interview shortly after Forde wrote that the university had received a NOA and was keeping it hidden.

In no way whatsoever have I said the punishment will be mitigated if it cant be "proven" by NCAA standards. NCAA doesnt take public statements as official statements. Yes they will/are questioning them. It's whether or not OM staffers (not a player) makes a misstep in that process. I'd love to be wrong Im just providing my opinion based on history.

[AlmostPositive]

If the NCAA hasn't already asked Miller and Farrar about this they will. If what they say is at variance with other info (it is likely to be) they will ask more questions and seek more documents. Ole Miss staff will have to carefully calibrate the danger of lying versus the danger of telling the truth.