SEC Baseball Standings thru Week 2

[Coach34]

SC...6-0
State...4-2
A&M...4-2
Fla...4-2
Bama...4-2
Vandy...4-2
Kentucky...4-2
UPig...3-3

Tenn...2-4
Georgia...2-4
LSU...2-4
Ole Missus...2-4
Auburn...1-5
Mizz...0-6

Typically takes a top 4 finish to host

Next weekend:

Ole Missus @ State- huge series
Kentucky @ Tenn- Kentucky with another chance at 2/3
LSU @ Auburn- LSU needs a sweep
A&M @ Fla- huge series
SC @ Vandy- huge series
Mizzou @ UPig- chance for Pigs to stay in the upper half
Bama @ Georgia- chance for Bama to keep pace in the upper half

[chef dixon]

That's why a chance to sweep yesterday was so big for standings. Our next 4 series are brutal.

[msstate7]

If I were bianco, I'd throw the Sunday guy Friday night vs Hudson, normal Friday guy vs sexton, and normal Saturday guy vs our train wreck on Sunday

[MarketingBully]

Wow, a big log jam for second place overall. We need 2/3 big time against Ole Miss here. The surprise of the week is UK over Florida. Looks like Vandy swept Missouri and I think they scored 17+ runs today. So much for msstate7 saying that Vandy was making us look bad...

[MarketingBully]

If I were bianco, I'd throw the Sunday guy Friday night vs Hudson, normal Friday guy vs sexton, and normal Saturday guy vs our train wreck on Sunday

That guarantees us a win on Friday and Saturday pretty much and concedes the series to us. I'd love for him to do that.

[msstate7]

Wow, a big log jam for second place overall. We need 2/3 big time against Ole Miss here. The surprise of the week is UK over Florida. Looks like Vandy swept Missouri and I think they scored 17+ runs today. So much for msstate7 saying that Vandy was making us look bad...

Yeah, jumped the gun a little... I posted that Friday night when mizzou had a late lead and vandy coming off a terrible midweek loss.

[MarketingBully]

Yeah, jumped the gun a little... I posted that Friday night when mizzou had a late lead and vandy coming off a terrible midweek loss.

Hey, at least you admit it. Gained respect points from me there. :)

[msstate7]

That guarantees us a win on Friday and Saturday pretty much and concedes the series to us. I'd love for him to do that.

I see it differently. They can't match Hudson... He's the trump card. I think their best vs sexton negates our Saturday advantage and a decent pitcher vs us on Sunday is a huge advantage for them

[Mjoelner34]

That guarantees us a win on Friday and Saturday pretty much and concedes the series to us. I'd love for him to do that.

If we want to try to get to 20-10 in the SEC, the way it looks now is to throw Hudson against the other teams #2 and Sexton against their #3 every week.

[msstate7]

Hey, at least you admit it. Gained respect points from me there. :)

I admit to being wrong daily... Admit it and move on

[MarketingBully]

I see it differently. They can't match Hudson... He's the trump card. I think their best vs sexton negates our Saturday advantage and a decent pitcher vs us on Sunday is a huge advantage for them

Next to Vandy and Florida, our Hudson/Sexton combination as a 1-2 punch is the best in the SEC. Sexton could be several team's #1 starter and he pitched very well against UGAs ace who is better then Ole Miss' ace.

[Political Hack]

That's why a chance to sweep yesterday was so big for standings. Our next 4 series are brutal.

That's true, but it's also a chance to take control of the standings. Go win big series. We've done it so far and I don't see Hudson backing down on a Friday night. I think we're better than anyone in the conference right now except for maybe Florida. They're stacked.

[msstate7]

Next to Vandy and Florida, our Hudson/Sexton combination as a 1-2 punch is the best in the SEC. Sexton could be several team's #1 starter and he pitched very well against UGAs ace who is better then Ole Miss' ace.

Yep and as good as sexton is... He ain't Hudson, so om would really burn their best vs a guy they really can't match

[Political Hack]

If we want to try to get to 20-10 in the SEC, the way it looks now is to throw Hudson against the other teams #2 and Sexton against their #3 every week.

Throwing them on Fri and Sat has guaranteed series wins so far, with a chance of the sweep. I think they're going to be difficult matchups all year. I don't know who's going to beat that 1-2 punch with ease on Friday and Saturday.

[Dawg62]

Looking at SEC stats it's very apparent that Butch is as bunted out as we are after dealing with Cohen's shenanigans. Only 3 sac bunts for Auburn on the year haha

[chef dixon]

That's true, but it's also a chance to take control of the standings. Go win big series. We've done it so far and I don't see Hudson backing down on a Friday night. I think we're better than anyone in the conference right now except for maybe Florida. They're stacked.

I agree. Its time to beat Ole Miss. They've had our number mentally in a lot of sports lately and especially baseball. 2/3 is a must, but we should honestly be thinking sweep v. them at home with the way they have been struggling offensively.

[CadaverDawg]

Looking at SEC stats it's very apparent that Butch is as bunted out as we are after dealing with Cohen's shenanigans. Only 3 sac bunts for Auburn on the year haha

Working well for him.**

[Ifyouonlyknew]

OM doesn't have a consistent Sunday guy either. There's talk about moving their closer to Sunday starter.

[msstate7]

Throwing them on Fri and Sat has guaranteed series wins so far, with a chance of the sweep. I think they're going to be difficult matchups all year. I don't know who's going to beat that 1-2 punch with ease on Friday and Saturday.

Florida and lsu can match us Friday and Saturday. Lsu can't hit though, but Florida can. Florida's Saturday guy (aj puk) is potentially the #1 pick in the mlb draft

[Dawg62]

Working well for him.**

They'd be 0-6 if Cohen ran their offense

[Coach34]

Looking at SEC stats it's very apparent that Butch is as bunted out as we are after dealing with Cohen's shenanigans. Only 3 sac bunts for Auburn on the year haha

thats pretty funny actually

[Dawg62]

thats pretty funny actually

Combined with the fact that Auburn has the 2nd most plate appearances he blows away the competition averaging one sac bunt every 349 plate appearances. 349!

[Coach34]

Combined with the fact that Auburn has the 2nd most plate appearances he blows away the competition averaging one sac bunt every 349 plate appearances. 349!

It's very telling when he just got done working side by side with Cohen for 7 years

[msstate7]

Combined with the fact that Auburn has the 2nd most plate appearances he blows away the competition averaging one sac bunt every 349 plate appearances. 349!

Devil's advocate here... Auburn is 1-5 in league play with 2 losses by 2 and 1 by 1. Perhaps more sac bunts in those games could've made a difference.

Fwiw, I'm not a fan of bunting all the time, but I do believe it's a strategy that should be used some late in games

[Coach34]

Devil's advocate here... Auburn is 1-5 in league play with 2 losses by 2 and 1 by 1. Perhaps more sac bunts in those games could've made a difference.

Fwiw, I'm not a fan of bunting all the time, but I do believe it's a strategy that should be used some late in games

Auburn is losing because they are last in the SEC in ERA

Auburn is 2nd in BA
Auburn is 2nd in OBP
Auburn is 5th in slugging
Auburn is 3rd in runs scored
Auburn is 1st in hits
Auburn is 5th in RBI's
Auburn is tied for 7th in HR's

[msstate7]

Auburn is losing because they are last in the SEC in ERA

Auburn is 2nd in BA
Auburn is 2nd in OBP
Auburn is 5th in slugging
Auburn is 3rd in runs scored
Auburn is 1st in hits
Auburn is 5th in RBI's
Auburn is tied for 7th in HR's

They lost Friday 3-2 and today 3-1... Do you blame those losses on pitching?

[Dawg62]

They lost Friday 3-2 and today 3-1... Do you blame those losses on pitching?

Bunting has been well documented to lessen your chances of scoring. Sometimes all you got that day is 1 or 2 runs and bunting wouldn't change that.

[Coach34]

They lost Friday 3-2 and today 3-1... Do you blame those losses on pitching?

nobody is saying an 8th inning or later bunt cant help sometime. Bunting in the 1st 3 innings should get you fired.

[msstate7]

nobody is saying an 8th inning or later bunt cant help sometime. Bunting in the 1st 3 innings should get you fired.

I agree with that... I can stomach a bunt late in the game to move 2 runners in scoring position or the game tying or game winning run to 3rd. Early bunting is dumb when it doesn't involve a national league pitcher at the plate

[Mutt the Hoople]

I admit to being wrong daily... Admit it and move on
I'm married. I'm experienced at admitting I'm wrong.

[Dawg62]

They lost Friday 3-2 and today 3-1... Do you blame those losses on pitching?

The game they lost 3-2 they got the leadoff man on 1st in the 7th inning and sac bunted him to 2nd.... Didn't score.

Hilarious how my argument always seems to prove itself. Bad time for that 3rd bunt on the year Butch, trust your instinct and past 7 years proof.

[CadaverDawg]

They'd be 0-6 if Cohen ran their offense

Wrong again. They'd be way more talented if Cohen was their Coach.

You guys can hate Cohen all you want. I'm not the biggest fan of his either. BUT, I also know things that "are" and "are not" fair criticisms....the problem with you and coach is that you try to turn everything into a Cohen criticism so nobody takes you serious. If you ever take a stance that you hate Cohen's style, but can agree that there are very few "absolutes" in college baseball, you might make better points and be taken more serious. Just my opinion.

For example, you make some very good points about bunting....but then you throw all credibility away when you start throwing out absolutes like "always" and "never" when any person with baseball experience and true knowledge knows there are very few, if any, absolutes in college baseball from game to game, pitch to pitch. It makes you come across as a guy that bases every bit of baseball knowledge on stats, Boyd's World, and Bill James. Let me clarify...you do not know baseball if you only know those books & philosophies.

[I seen it dawg]

The game they lost 3-2 they got the leadoff man on 1st in the 7th inning and sac bunted him to 2nd.... Didn't score.

Hilarious how my argument always seems to prove itself. Bad time for that 3rd bunt on the year Butch, trust your instinct and past 7 years proof.

Look curveball and adjust to fastball

[Noxdog]

Wrong again. They'd be way more talented if Cohen was their Coach.

You guys can hate Cohen all you want. I'm not the biggest fan of his either. BUT, I also know things that "are" and "are not" fair criticisms....the problem with you and coach is that you try to turn everything into a Cohen criticism so nobody takes you serious. If you ever take a stance that you hate Cohen's style, but can agree that there are very few "absolutes" in college baseball, you might make better points and be taken more serious. Just my opinion.

For example, you make some very good points about bunting....but then you throw all credibility away when you start throwing out absolutes like "always" and "never" when any person with baseball experience and true knowledge knows there are very few, if any, absolutes in college baseball from game to game, pitch to pitch. It makes you come across as a guy that bases every bit of baseball knowledge on stats, Boyd's World, and Bill James. Let me clarify...you do not know baseball if you only know those books & philosophies.

this bastid up to now? I guess every MB has to have one.....ya know, that annoying twat.

[Todd4State]

Auburn would be even worse if they didn't play the entire SWAC conference. Right now 5 of their wins are against HBCU's- and they have a loss to Southern. And no- I'm not talking about USM although they have lost to them too. Like Southern University in Baton Rouge. They're really bad this year but I think Butch will turn it around for them in a year or two.

[Todd4State]

Wrong again. They'd be way more talented if Cohen was their Coach.

You guys can hate Cohen all you want. I'm not the biggest fan of his either. BUT, I also know things that "are" and "are not" fair criticisms....the problem with you and coach is that you try to turn everything into a Cohen criticism so nobody takes you serious. If you ever take a stance that you hate Cohen's style, but can agree that there are very few "absolutes" in college baseball, you might make better points and be taken more serious. Just my opinion.

For example, you make some very good points about bunting....but then you throw all credibility away when you start throwing out absolutes like "always" and "never" when any person with baseball experience and true knowledge knows there are very few, if any, absolutes in college baseball from game to game, pitch to pitch. It makes you come across as a guy that bases every bit of baseball knowledge on stats, Boyd's World, and Bill James. Let me clarify...you do not know baseball if you only know those books & philosophies.

That's because HE DOES base all of his baseball knowledge on those things. It's very obvious.

[Todd4State]

Auburn is losing because they are last in the SEC in ERA

Auburn is 2nd in BA
Auburn is 2nd in OBP
Auburn is 5th in slugging
Auburn is 3rd in runs scored
Auburn is 1st in hits
Auburn is 5th in RBI's
Auburn is tied for 7th in HR's

As far as Auburn's pitching- a bad staff and a small ballpark are a LETHAL combination.

[Coach34]

the problem with you and coach is that you try to turn everything into a Cohen criticism so nobody takes you serious.


I can assure you I'm taken seriously- thats why I have a ******* website. Whether I'm agreed with is a different issue.

The thing you and others dont seem to understand:

You want to say its ok for Cohen to bunt with Kruger on Friday night because it was the 6th inning- to you it makes sense you guys say because of where the game was. But then he comes right back the next day and does it in the 2nd inning- which EVERYONE AGREES IS STUPID. Here is where you miss out- Cohen doesnt care what ****ing inning it is- its his ****ed up philosophy. What inning it is never occurs to him, its a non-issue- by God this is what he is going to do. Thats the problem. We have 8 years now of proof. Inning is of no consequence to Cohen- so why should it matter to you?

[Dawg62]

I can assure you I'm taken seriously- thats why I have a ******* website. Whether I'm agreed with is a different issue.

The thing you and others dont seem to understand:

You want to say its ok for Cohen to bunt with Kruger on Friday night because it was the 6th inning- to you it makes sense you guys say because of where the game was. But then he comes right back the next day and does it in the 2nd inning- which EVERYONE AGREES IS STUPID. Here is where you miss out- Cohen doesnt care what ****ing inning it is- its his ****ed up philosophy. What inning it is never occurs to him, its a non-issue- by God this is what he is going to do. Thats the problem. We have 8 years now of proof. Inning is of no consequence to Cohen- so why should it matter to you?

You must spread reputation points around before giving to Coach34 again

[chef dixon]

It does seem we are bunting less than the last couple years. The Kruger bunts this weekend were tough. He is slumping a little bit right now and I'm sure bunting him doesn't help him get it groove back.

[CadaverDawg]

I can assure you I'm taken seriously- thats why I have a ******* website. Whether I'm agreed with is a different issue.

The thing you and others dont seem to understand:

You want to say its ok for Cohen to bunt with Kruger on Friday night because it was the 6th inning- to you it makes sense you guys say because of where the game was. But then he comes right back the next day and does it in the 2nd inning- which EVERYONE AGREES IS STUPID. Here is where you miss out- Cohen doesnt care what ****ing inning it is- its his ****ed up philosophy. What inning it is never occurs to him, its a non-issue- by God this is what he is going to do. Thats the problem. We have 8 years now of proof. Inning is of no consequence to Cohen- so why should it matter to you?

Ha, you are not taken seriously in regards to baseball. Sorry to burst your bubble. Having a website doesn't make you know more, I know that's a new concept. The only person agreeing with you is Will James aka Dawg62, I should end it there.

Thanks for proving my point that it is all about your hatred of Cohen. You just admitted that you are unable to view each situation as its own situation...instead you made it about Cohen's philosophy, which is EXACTLY what I said was yours and 62's problem.

I can accept that admission.

Ha, carry on.

[Coach34]

Ha, you are not taken seriously in regards to baseball. Sorry to burst your bubble. Having a website doesn't make you know more, I know that's a new concept. The only person agreeing with you is Will James aka Dawg62, I should end it there.

Thanks for proving my point that it is all about your hatred of Cohen. You just admitted that you are unable to view each situation as its own situation...instead you made it about Cohen's philosophy, which is EXACTLY what I said was yours and 62's problem.

I can accept that admission.

Ha, carry on.

lol-ok. Here is where you become a simpleton like the rest- there is no "hatred". I can disagree with people without "hatred".The bunting is simply ridiculous- and most people agree with me- not you- that's why Cohen's ass got ****ing boo'ed Saturday. A baseball coach got boo'ed- how often does that happen in college baseball over a game decision??? Almost never does that happen in college baseball. The only time you hear a boo in college baseball is if the coach comes out to argue or an umpire misses a call. Cohen got boo'ed. Thats why I know I am viewed seriously about baseball and you are simply someone that played T-ball and think you know some shit.

I can accept that admission.

[CadaverDawg]

lol-ok. Here is where you become a simpleton like the rest- there is no "hatred". I can disagree with people without "hatred".The bunting is simply ridiculous- and most people agree with me- not you- that's why Cohen's ass got ****ing boo'ed Saturday. A baseball coach got boo'ed- how often does that happen in college baseball over a game decision??? Almost never does that happen in college baseball. The only time you hear a boo in college baseball is if the coach comes out to argue or an umpire misses a call. Cohen got boo'ed. Thats why I know I am viewed seriously about baseball and you are simply someone that played T-ball and think you know some shit.

I can accept that admission.

And yet again, you make it about Cohen and his philosophy. We were discussing the Friday night bunt, but you're incapable of seeing it as its own situation. Like I said from the beginning. Which is why you cannot be reasoned with, and why nobody takes you serious.

It's pretty humorous.

Oh, and cute T-ball reference. Says a lot. When you have to tell people you're right and how big of a deal you are....you probably aren't.

[mic]

The next 9 games are huge
UMiss Lsu Am
Need to go no worse than 5-4...

[CadaverDawg]

The next 9 games are huge
UMiss Lsu Am
Need to go no worse than 5-4...

Yep. Gotta get 2 of 3 or 3 of 3 vs OM. Otherwise we're behind the 8 ball for a month.

[Coach34]

I don't have to tell anything- the boos said it all. Not to mention that Cohen's job was on the line starting the season and our new ballpark that we announced is on hold because alot of the money people have pulled donations over our coach.

His is support is 50/50 at best

[CadaverDawg]

I don't have to tell anything- the boos said it all. Not to mention that Cohen's job was on the line starting the season and our new ballpark that we announced is on hold because alot of the money people have pulled donations over our coach.

His is support is 50/50 at best

Who was debating Cohen's support? You've spun yourself completely away from the original discussion at this point.

[Todd4State]

The next 9 games are huge
UMiss Lsu Am
Need to go no worse than 5-4...

Actually it's Ole Miss, at Florida, A&M SBW, and then at LSU.

USM Tuesday won't be easy either.

[mic]

Actually it's Ole Miss, at Florida, A&M SBW, and then at LSU.

USM Tuesday won't be easy either.

My bad next 12 are huge ..
7-5 needs to be the goal ..
Anything north of that is gravy ....

[Dawg61]

Who was debating Cohen's support? You've spun yourself completely away from the original discussion at this point.

The Friday night bunt was terrible too. Not as bad as Saturday's but you don't give away a free out vs a pitcher throwing a no-hitter. Disagree? Find me just one example in the history of SEC baseball where a team sac bunted before the 7th vs a guy throwing a no-no. (Not bunting to try to get a hit. That I can agree is not a bad call.) Sac bunting is a terrible call.

[Coach34]

The Friday night bunt was terrible too. Not as bad as Saturday's but you don't give away a free out vs a pitcher throwing a no-hitter. Disagree? Find me just one example in the history of SEC baseball where a team sac bunted before the 7th vs a guy throwing a no-no. (Not bunting to try to get a hit. That I can agree is not a bad call.) Sac bunting is a terrible call.

with a guy batting in the 4-hole no less.

And thats the problem Cadaver refuses to acknowledge- and tries to play it off as "Cohen hate". We used to bunt with Wes Rea for crying out loud. Wes-freaking-Rea

[Dawg62]

that's why Cohen's ass got ****ing boo'ed Saturday. A baseball coach got boo'ed- how often does that happen in college baseball over a game decision??? Almost never does that happen in college baseball. Cohen got boo'ed.

I'll take some credit here in raising awareness over the last 5 years

[ShotgunDawg]

I think you guys are looking at this issue too black and white

Personally, at the MLB level, I hate bunting before the 8th inning as it absolutely lessens your chances of scoring. However, we must account for the fact that all the bunting statistics are based off MLB games with MLB players being the ones that are bunting and hitting.

The problem with this is that, other than National League pitchers, MLB hitters are all "capable" of hitting doubles and driving in runs, while many college players are not.

So, while objectively I disagree with bunting, my objectivity is based on the assumption that a capable hitter is the one doing the bunting. But this isn't true and this is where college baseball coaches must know their team and how each player is swinging the bat at the time.

So, continue arguing but it's not black and white. Cohen bunts too much for my taste, but he also doesn't have MLB hitters 1-9 in his lineup and therefore should bunt more than an MLB team. You can't keep throwing out MLB statistics and state that they are perfectly transferable to college baseball

[CadaverDawg]

with a guy batting in the 4-hole no less.

And thats the problem Cadaver refuses to acknowledge- and tries to play it off as "Cohen hate". We used to bunt with Wes Rea for crying out loud. Wes-freaking-Rea

Once again, you are debating something totally different now. You spun a debate about whether Friday night's bunt was acceptable (which it clearly was), and are now talking about Cohen getting booed and Wes Rea? I guess you feel so bad about your position on the Friday night bunt, that you've decided to spin until that's not the argument anymore.

Read through the debate and look at how you've changed the subject totally.

I do not agree with Cohen's small ball philosophy. That being said, bunting Lowe over in the 6th on Friday was a totally acceptable call given the situation....and if any other coach not named Cohen had done it, you three wouldn't have even discussed it. Why? Because you are totally Stuck on your hatred of Cohen's small ball, so you cannot see past it. That, and you clearly don't understand that baseball is situational.

There's no point in arguing with you, because you're so close minded, and instead of thinking there might be a chance you're wrong, you'd rather look foolish trying to stand behind a poor argument.

[Coach34]

Once again, you are debating something totally different now. You spun a debate about whether Friday night's bunt was acceptable (which it clearly was), and are now talking about Cohen getting booed and Wes Rea? I guess you feel so bad about your position on the Friday night bunt, that you've decided to spin until that's not the argument anymore.

Read through the debate and look at how you've changed the subject totally.

I do not agree with Cohen's small ball philosophy. That being said, bunting Lowe over in the 6th on Friday was a totally acceptable call given the situation....and if any other coach not named Cohen had done it, you three wouldn't have even discussed it. Why? Because you are totally Stuck on your hatred of Cohen's small ball, so you cannot see past it. That, and you clearly don't understand that baseball is situational.

There's no point in arguing with you, because you're so close minded, and instead of thinking there might be a chance you're wrong, you'd rather look foolish trying to stand behind a poor argument.

I feel the same about the Friday bunt as I did when it happened- shitty call. And its a shitty call by any coach that does it- its just that very few would be that dumb.

[Coach34]

I think you guys are looking at this issue too black and white

Personally, at the MLB level, I hate bunting before the 8th inning as it absolutely lessens your chances of scoring. However, we must account for the fact that all the bunting statistics are based off MLB games with MLB players being the ones that are bunting and hitting.

The problem with this is that, other than National League pitchers, MLB hitters are all "capable" of hitting doubles and driving in runs, while many college players are not.

So, while objectively I disagree with bunting, my objectivity is based on the assumption that a capable hitter is the one doing the bunting. But this isn't true and this is where college baseball coaches must know their team and how each player is swinging the bat at the time.

So, continue arguing but it's not black and white. Cohen bunts too much for my taste, but he also doesn't have MLB hitters 1-9 in his lineup and therefore should bunt more than an MLB team. You can't keep throwing out MLB statistics and state that they are perfectly transferable to college baseball

I agree with this 100%- thats why I get on Dawg62 about his stats. You cant use those hardline for college baseball because its a different game.

And I'll say it again- Cohen got boo'ed on Saturday for an in-game call. I've never seen that happen before. Never. They werent just booing that one call- to get to the point of booing a call in a game- you are seeing people that are fed up with it. Cohen literally made history Saturday as State's coach by getting boo'ed at home over an in-game call.

[CadaverDawg]

I feel the same about the Friday bunt as I did when it happened- shitty call. And its a shitty call by any coach that does it- its just that very few would be that dumb.

Hilarious. If Lowe doesn't make a dumb base running error, we might tie the game up bc of that decision...yet "it's shitty" bc a message board coach says so. That's another thing I find funny, 62 keeps saying "we ask Kruger to do something he CANT do!".....yet, Friday he was asked to sac bunt and he did so successfully, putting a RISP with 1 out for 2 of our best hitters to try and tie it on one hit. So clearly, "he CAN".

You guys would have rather lost that Friday game swinging away, than won it due to a sac bunt. It's astounding how absurd that is. It's as if you put your dislike of a style of play ahead of the wins/losses themselves. It's selfish and does no good, bc Cohen isn't taking our advice no matter how bad we all hate his incessant bunting. Fortunately, 99% of the board is able to see beyond Cohen's style and recognize situational baseball and that there are times to play small ball. Sorry you guys can't. Going to make Cohen's tenure miserable for you even if we win it all apparently.

[Dawg62]

I think you guys are looking at this issue too black and white

Personally, at the MLB level, I hate bunting before the 8th inning as it absolutely lessens your chances of scoring. However, we must account for the fact that all the bunting statistics are based off MLB games with MLB players being the ones that are bunting and hitting.
l

Not Boyd

http://www.boydsworld.com/data/ert.html

[Dawg61]

You guys would have rather lost that Friday game swinging away, than won it due to a sac bunt. It's astounding how absurd that is. It's as if you put your dislike of a style of play ahead of the wins/losses themselves. It's selfish and does no good, bc Cohen isn't taking our advice no matter how bad we all hate his incessant bunting. Fortunately, 99% of the board is able to see beyond Cohen's style and recognize situational baseball and that there are times to play small ball. Sorry you guys can't. Going to make Cohen's tenure miserable for you even if we win it all apparently.

Absolutely not I wouldn't rather lose swinging away than win sac bunting. I can't believe you think that. That's absurd Cadaver. TAKE IT BACK lol. The problem here with this thinking is that COHEN NEVER WINS WITH SAC BUNTING. Not since we had 50 popups vs UCLA can I remember us winning a game because we sac bunted. However I can point to over a HUNDRED examples were we HURT our team's chances to score more runs because we did sac bunt. Cohen gotta gohen. That's the new line. Cohen gotta GOHEN.

[Dawg61]

I think you guys are looking at this issue too black and white

Personally, at the MLB level, I hate bunting before the 8th inning as it absolutely lessens your chances of scoring. However, we must account for the fact that all the bunting statistics are based off MLB games with MLB players being the ones that are bunting and hitting.

The problem with this is that, other than National League pitchers, MLB hitters are all "capable" of hitting doubles and driving in runs, while many college players are not.

So, while objectively I disagree with bunting, my objectivity is based on the assumption that a capable hitter is the one doing the bunting. But this isn't true and this is where college baseball coaches must know their team and how each player is swinging the bat at the time.

So, continue arguing but it's not black and white. Cohen bunts too much for my taste, but he also doesn't have MLB hitters 1-9 in his lineup and therefore should bunt more than an MLB team. You can't keep throwing out MLB statistics and state that they are perfectly transferable to college baseball

Only problem here in my opinion is that MLB hitters are better bunters than college guys and college guys are more comfortable swinging away naturally for singles/doubles than they are at sac bunting so it's more likely they'll be successful at something they are more comfortable doing especially vs someone throwing a no-hitter.

[smootness]

I feel the same about the Friday bunt as I did when it happened- shitty call. And its a shitty call by any coach that does it- its just that very few would be that dumb.

This is where we're going to disagree. There are a crap ton of college coaches who would make that call. It isn't smart, but that doesn't stop a vast majority of them from making a lot of dumb bunt calls.

Cohen likes to bunt, and he does it too much. There are a ton of college coaches who like to bunt and do it too much. We have to simply decide whether or not we're ok with Cohen and the success he has had. Personally, assuming this season goes well and we either host or at least win a regional, I'm totally ok with him, bunting decisions and all. Because most of the coaches we would replace him with also believe in bunting.

I get that it is dumb and fans hate it. But it is also stupid that we keep talking about it. We should judge him on his success or failure, not on when he decides to bunt.

[maroonmania]

Absolutely not I wouldn't rather lose swinging away than win sac bunting. I can't believe you think that. That's absurd Cadaver. TAKE IT BACK lol. The problem here with this thinking is that COHEN NEVER WINS WITH SAC BUNTING. Not since we had 50 popups vs UCLA can I remember us winning a game because we sac bunted. However I can point to over a HUNDRED examples were we HURT our team's chances to score more runs because we did sac bunt. Cohen gotta gohen. That's the new line. Cohen gotta GOHEN.

Bunting to score ONE run in the late innings of a "pitcher's duel" type game is not just a Cohen issue. A high percentage of managers do that and have done it through the history of baseball so maybe there is just a bunch of stupid baseball coaches out there and only the ones who NEVER bunt are the intelligent ones. To try and pull statistics from ALL games in every inning about the percentages of a guy scoring from first with no outs versus a guy scoring from second with one out doesn't give the full picture. I mean that includes a ton of games where both teams are scoring at will through the entirety of the game and so that would seem to skew the numbers. I want to know what the numbers are when I'm scratching just to try to get ONE hit off a guy who is shutting me down pretty good in the final innings of the game. I think we ALL agree that bunting early in a game is bad and that bunting anytime in a game where I'm scoring a lot against the opposition OR I don't trust my pitcher to hold the down the opposition down is also a bad idea. I think we ALL agree that Cohen WAY overdoes the sacrifice bunt. But now it seems we've got a lot of folks taking it to extreme that you should NEVER sacrifice bunt in any situation ever. That, to me, is just the opposite extreme.

[Dawg61]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

[Dawg61]

If we drag bunted or quick bunted for hits I would be ok with it. That is aggressive baseball. Sac bunting is for losers.

[maroonmania]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

See, to me, the no-no makes it more justifiable than it would be without the no-no. If I'm batting against a guy that I'm hitting I definitely don't want to waste an out moving a guy into scoring position. But heck, the guy we got on in the 6th to lead off only got on because of a walk, not because he made solid contact. I can at least see Cohen saying hey, if I push this guy over to second I just need one of the next two guys to at least dribble one through the infield and I've got a run. If you don't move him over you are going to need at least 2 singles or some time of deep extra base hit to get him home off a guy you haven't even made good contact on yet. And I'm not saying I would have bunted him over but I can at least, in that situation, follow Cohen's reasoning. Most of the time I can't.

[CadaverDawg]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

Right, because stringing together 2 hits in order to score a run vs 1 hit scoring a run against a guy throwing a no hitter, makes perfect sense.*

I would have been ok with swinging away there, but to act like bunting was a "stupid" call, is just nonsense. That's my problem with yalls argument. Your unwillingness to admit that certain situations call for a bunt as an option, and Friday's was definitely one of those times where it's acceptable.

[Dawg61]

Right, because stringing together 2 hits in order to score a run vs 1 hit scoring a run against a guy throwing a no hitter, makes perfect sense.*

I would have been ok with swinging away there, but to act like bunting was a "stupid" call, is just nonsense. That's my problem with yalls argument. Your unwillingness to admit that certain situations call for a bunt as an option, and Friday's was definitely one of those times where it's acceptable.

I've watched a lot of baseball and so have you. I could agree with you about the two hits vs one thing if only I could remember just one time a manager sac-bunting during a no-hitter. Just once. That's all I'm asking for. One instance of proof that another manager made that same call. I can't find it. In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt.

[Dawg62]

Right, because stringing together 2 hits in order to score a run vs 1 hit scoring a run against a guy throwing a no hitter, makes perfect sense.*

I would have been ok with swinging away there, but to act like bunting was a "stupid" call, is just nonsense. That's my problem with yalls argument. Your unwillingness to admit that certain situations call for a bunt as an option, and Friday's was definitely one of those times where it's acceptable.

Bunting hurts struggling teams more.. Documented fact. You're facing a stud and willingly giving away an out? Retarded.

1. Bunts aren't automatically successful.
2. Many things can move the runner to 2nd, many do not cost an automatic out.
3. One hit to score vs 2 hits is retarded. Again, many ways runners move without a hit or a bunt. Guy was wild, how about a walk? What if Lon hits a double! Or a HR!!

[Coach34]

Bunting hurts struggling teams more.. Documented fact. You're facing a stud and willingly giving away an out? Retarded.

1. Bunts aren't automatically successful.
2. Many things can move the runner to 2nd, many do not cost an automatic out.
3. One hit to score vs 2 hits is retarded. Again, many ways runners move without a hit or a bunt. Guy was wild, how about a walk? What if Lon hits a double! Or a HR!!

perfect example from the weekend:

We ask Lon to bunt with Lowe on 2nd- Lon fails to get bunt down on 1st two strikes- gets in a hole- K's. Collins up- passed ball gets Lowe to 3rd. Collins drives him in. We tried to bunt and it was absolutely no help- but we scored anyway. All trying to bunt did was give Georgia an out.

[CadaverDawg]

Bunting hurts struggling teams more.. Documented fact. You're facing a stud and willingly giving away an out? Retarded.

1. Bunts aren't automatically successful.
2. Many things can move the runner to 2nd, many do not cost an automatic out.
3. One hit to score vs 2 hits is retarded. Again, many ways runners move without a hit or a bunt. Guy was wild, how about a walk? What if Lon hits a double! Or a HR!!

I can play that game too...

What IF he strikes out
What IF he pops up
What IF he hits into a double play

One difference, we were being no hit, so mine were more likely based on that game & situation. Boyd's World ain't telling you that you have already been through the lineup twice and haven't even sniffed a base hit yet. Some situations cause for you to actually be a coach and make gut decisions....not read a how-to on coaching baseball.

You wanna argue Saturday's bunts, & millions of other Cohen bunt calls, I'm right there with you. But Friday night's bunt was totally fine, and nothing you can say will change that. Kruger sac bunted him over, gave Collins & Hump a chance to tie it, but Lowe screwed up. Otherwise it might have been the perfect call to tie the game up on1 hit. That's fact.

[CadaverDawg]

perfect example from the weekend:

We ask Lon to bunt with Lowe on 2nd- Lon fails to get bunt down on 1st two strikes- gets in a hole- K's. Collins up- passed ball gets Lowe to 3rd. Collins drives him in. We tried to bunt and it was absolutely no help- but we scored anyway. All trying to bunt did was give Georgia an out.

Yep, that was idiotic. Just like most of Cohen's bunt calls. But Friday's wasn't one of the idiotic ones. I would've been fine with letting Kruger hit Friday night, but there was nothing wrong with bunting there. Saturday was one of the worst pieces of coaching I've ever witnessed at the D1 level.

You don't bunt a good hitter with a man already in scoring position. Such a stupid call that was.

[CadaverDawg]

Bunting to score ONE run in the late innings of a "pitcher's duel" type game is not just a Cohen issue. A high percentage of managers do that and have done it through the history of baseball so maybe there is just a bunch of stupid baseball coaches out there and only the ones who NEVER bunt are the intelligent ones. To try and pull statistics from ALL games in every inning about the percentages of a guy scoring from first with no outs versus a guy scoring from second with one out doesn't give the full picture. I mean that includes a ton of games where both teams are scoring at will through the entirety of the game and so that would seem to skew the numbers. I want to know what the numbers are when I'm scratching just to try to get ONE hit off a guy who is shutting me down pretty good in the final innings of the game. I think we ALL agree that bunting early in a game is bad and that bunting anytime in a game where I'm scoring a lot against the opposition OR I don't trust my pitcher to hold the down the opposition down is also a bad idea. I think we ALL agree that Cohen WAY overdoes the sacrifice bunt. But now it seems we've got a lot of folks taking it to extreme that you should NEVER sacrifice bunt in any situation ever. That, to me, is just the opposite extreme.

Spot on.

[RocketCityDawg]

I've watched a lot of baseball and so have you. I could agree with you about the two hits vs one thing if only I could remember just one time a manager sac-bunting during a no-hitter. Just once. That's all I'm asking for. One instance of proof that another manager made that same call. I can't find it. In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt.

Here you go. 2 minutes with Google returned this. Now STFU Dawg61

10 Harvey Haddix
Pittsburgh Pirates (NL)
Tuesday, May 26, 1959
Milwaukee Braves 1, Pittsburgh Pirates 0 (13 innings)
Milwaukee County Stadium (Milwaukee)
Haddix threw a perfect game through 12, retiring the first 36 batters he faced. He lost the perfect game in the top of the 13th when Pirates third-baseman Don Hoak committed an error letting Felix Mantilla reach first. After a sacrifice bunt by Eddie Mathews and an intentional walk to Hank Aaron, Haddix lost the no hitter (and the game) on a Joe Adcock walkoff homer.

[Dawg61]

Here you go. 2 minutes with Google returned this. Now STFU Dawg61

10 Harvey Haddix
Pittsburgh Pirates (NL)
Tuesday, May 26, 1959
Milwaukee Braves 1, Pittsburgh Pirates 0 (13 innings)
Milwaukee County Stadium (Milwaukee)
Haddix threw a perfect game through 12, retiring the first 36 batters he faced. He lost the perfect game in the top of the 13th when Pirates third-baseman Don Hoak committed an error letting Felix Mantilla reach first. After a sacrifice bunt by Eddie Mathews and an intentional walk to Hank Aaron, Haddix lost the no hitter (and the game) on a Joe Adcock walkoff homer.

That's in 1959 and in the 13th inning and the guy hit a homerun. Try again. That doesn't qualify.

[RocketCityDawg]

That's in 1959 and in the 13th inning and the guy hit a homerun. Try again. That doesn't qualify.

How did I know you wouldn't follow up on your promise? Why doesn't it qualify?

"In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt."

STFU!!!

[smootness]

That's in 1959 and in the 13th inning and the guy hit a homerun. Try again. That doesn't qualify.

You asked for one instance in the history of baseball in which a manager called for a sac bunt during a no-hitter. So yes, that would qualify.

That's a pretty bizarre request to begin with. How are people supposed to look through every game ever played and see if a sac bunt was called for before the team's first hit? Because that's what you're asking for. RocketCity actually did come up with one such instance, and you dismiss it?

If you didn't mean one instance in the history of baseball, you should have said so. That's on you.

[Dawg61]

How did I know you wouldn't follow up on your promise? Why doesn't it qualify?

"In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt."

STFU!!!

Haha cause it's 56 years ago and in the 13th inning!! I admire your effort though. Will not STFU.

[I seen it dawg]

I'll take some credit here in raising awareness over the last 5 years

Look curveball and adjust to fastball

[I seen it dawg]

There's not a situation where Kruger should be bunting. He absolutely sucks at it. Therefore he should never bunt. If it's a situation where a bunt just has to be done then take his ass out and put someone in that can bunt. It's absolutely useless asking Kruger to bunt. It's made worse that he is a top of the order hitter. Totally ****ing stupid.

[Dawg62]

Look curveball and adjust to fastball

Liar

[Jack Lambert]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

I kind of wonder when the batter is the first up to bat, no body on base and he bunts, was it his idea? Maybe Cohen told him do what he wants to get on base. If you are fast and can bunt your way on do. Getting a base runner is all that counts in my book.

Just my opinion on it.

[Dawg61]

I kind of wonder when the batter is the first up to bat, no body on base and he bunts, was it his idea? Maybe Cohen told him do what he wants to get on base. If you are fast and can bunt your way on do. Getting a base runner is all that counts in my book.

Just my opinion on it.

I have no problems with attempting to get a hit by bunting every once in awhile. It keeps the defense honest. It's sacrifice bunting I'm not a fan of.

[bulldogcountry1]

I don't know why anyone is even talking about the Friday bunt when the Jack Kruger Mellencamp bunt call on Saturday was the worst coaching decision I have ever seen. I mean, several hundred (including myself) people actually verbalized their disbelief. It sucked all the energy out of the stadium.

- It was the 3rd inning
- Our best hitter was at the plate
- We were already on our third pitcher. Did he really think 1 or 2 more runs would be enough?
- They didn't have a good pitching situation either, so why give away outs?

[I seen it dawg]

Liar

One of your usernames argued for 3 days on hitters should look curveball and adjust to fastball. Serf

[Coach34]

Haha cause it's 56 years ago and in the 13th inning!! I admire your effort though. Will not STFU.

Yes- they got ya 61- but good grief, the fact that hardly anybody on this board was old enough to watch when it happened says a lot. Dawggeezer may have been over at Shannondawg's house watching that day- but most of the rest of us were cosmic souls waiting our turn to be called to Earth

[smootness]

I don't know why anyone is even talking about the Friday bunt when the Jack Kruger Mellencamp bunt call on Saturday was the worst coaching decision I have ever seen. I mean, several hundred (including myself) people actually verbalized their disbelief. It sucked all the energy out of the stadium.

- It was the 3rd inning
- Our best hitter was at the plate
- We were already on our third pitcher. Did he really think 1 or 2 more runs would be enough?
- They didn't have a good pitching situation either, so why give away outs?

Because everyone agrees that was stupid.

[Dawg62]

One of your usernames argued for 3 days on hitters should look curveball and adjust to fastball. Serf

Liar. Said more likely to get offspeed so adjust approach. Later on fastball and go oppo. You ran with a lie to earn Internet cred. Expect offspeed does not equal "sit" offspeed. You failed reading comprehension so it was a useless ordeal to try to further explain.

You are the one who thinks everything is measured on a level of being more or less of a ***** as evidenced by every game thread. "**** get balls *** just stop being a ***** ***** you're a *****".

Also you want your best hitter to hit with nobody on base and 2 outs more than any other hitter. Genius that is.

[I seen it dawg]

Liar. Said more likely to get offspeed so adjust approach. Later on fastball and go oppo. You ran with a lie to earn Internet cred. Expect offspeed does not equal "sit" offspeed. You failed reading comprehension so it was a useless ordeal to try to further explain.

You are the one who thinks everything is measured on a level of being more or less of a ***** as evidenced by every game thread. "**** get balls *** just stop being a ***** ***** you're a *****".

Also you want your best hitter to hit with nobody on base and 2 outs more than any other hitter. Genius that is.

As I've said earlier I've smoked your no baseball playing dungeons and dragons punk ass so many times it isn't even fun anymore to argue with you. You just keep pounding your sizzle chest with your encyclopedia brown baseball stuff and in a couple of weeks have your new username teed up for when you break your keyboard and get banned again. Serfs adjust, sit, wait on offspeed or breaking balls and adjust to fastballs.

[Dawg62]

As I've said earlier I've smoked your no baseball playing dungeons and dragons punk ass so many times it isn't even fun anymore to argue with you. You just keep pounding your sizzle chest with your encyclopedia brown baseball stuff and in a couple of weeks have your new username teed up for when you break your keyboard and get banned again. Serfs adjust, sit, wait on offspeed or breaking balls and adjust to fastballs.

Lol best hitter in the worst situation most often.

[CadaverDawg]

This thread turned straight 2013 in a hurry. Ha, I love it.

[RocketCityDawg]

Yes- they got ya 61- but good grief, the fact that hardly anybody on this board was old enough to watch when it happened says a lot. Dawggeezer may have been over at Shannondawg's house watching that day- but most of the rest of us were cosmic souls waiting our turn to be called to Earth

Yeah, it's a long time ago. It's really hard to find a boxscore or anything pertaining to a certain situation that happens when another certain situation is also happening. The reason I could find that one is that it's a famous 12 innings of no hit ball. It would be damn near impossible to research games where the no hitter was broken up before the 9th. Also, when the no hitter is completed, there are probably not a lot of late game situations where the leadoff hitter reaches.

The fact is that Dawg61 said he would STFU, but he didn't. That tells me a lot about everything he says.

Here's one a little more recent where the leadoff hitter reached in the 6th.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1972/B04160CHN1972.htm

I'm still betting that this doesn't make him STFU tho.

[Dawg62]

That was also before smart people began looking at advanced math to determine probability, etc. Earl Weaver (one of the most underrated managers and influential baseball men of all-time) was still a decade away

[RocketCityDawg]

That was also before smart people began looking at advanced math to determine probability, etc. Earl Weaver (one of the most underrated managers and influential baseball men of all-time) was still a decade away

I get it that you think that sac bunting is evil and should never be done. But I reject the idea that in a low scoring game (1-0) when your team doesn't have a hit makes it a worse time to bunt than normal. To me, that's a lot better time to bunt then most any other situation.

[smootness]

That was also before smart people began looking at advanced math to determine probability, etc. Earl Weaver (one of the most underrated managers and influential baseball men of all-time) was still a decade away

So how many disclaimers do we want to retroactively put on that statement.

Good gosh, the guy said to name one time in the history of baseball where it happened. Was it a dumb statement? Sure, but he made it.

[Dawg61]

Lmao the fact you've got to search so hard doesn't tell you something? It should.

[Dawg61]

So how many disclaimers do we want to retroactively put on that statement.

Good gosh, the guy said to name one time in the history of baseball where it happened. Was it a dumb statement? Sure, but he made it.

Am I still talking about the Friday bunt or are you being a petulant child trying to get me to stfu?

[smootness]

Am I still talking about the Friday bunt or are you being a petulant child trying to get me to stfu?

The latter. You started this.

[Dawg61]

The latter. You started this.

Lol well glad you admitted it. Rep given

[RocketCityDawg]

Lmao the fact you've got to search so hard doesn't tell you something? It should.

Huh? You think I've spent a lot of time on this? Negative.

It's a weird thing to search for, but it didn't take that long. Now, if I had to search for games that didn't wind up no hitters, that would take some time. It's much easier to sit there and say, "By God, this NEVER happened in history!" Then, "Well, that doesn't count, it was the wrong inning." Then, "Doesn't matter, I'm not going to STFU." Then, "Haha, you actually took the time to find something on the internet."

Geez, dude. I thought it was females that mostly didn't care about facts as long as they get the last word and think to themselves that they're right even after being proven wrong.

[Dawg61]

Huh? You think I've spent a lot of time on this? Negative.

It's a weird thing to search for, but it didn't take that long. Now, if I had to search for games that didn't wind up no hitters, that would take some time. It's much easier to sit there and say, "By God, this NEVER happened in history!" Then, "Well, that doesn't count, it was the wrong inning." Then, "Doesn't matter, I'm not going to STFU." Then, "Haha, you actually took the time to find something on the internet."

Geez, dude. I thought it was females that mostly didn't care about facts as long as they get the last word and think to themselves that they're right even after being proven wrong.

Hahaha you still don't see that I proved my point. I said the Friday bunt was a terrible call. Wether it's zero times, one time 56 years ago, twice etc... it's still giganticly dwarfed by the other side of calls by managers that chose NOT TO SAC BUNT. Last time I checked

4 billion or whatever it is that didn't sac bunt is enormously larger than 3.

4,000,000,000 > 3

Cohen gotta GOhen

[RocketCityDawg]

Hahaha you still don't see that I proved my point. I said the Friday bunt was a terrible call. Wether it's zero times, one time 56 years ago, twice etc... it's still giganticly dwarfed by the other side of calls by managers that chose NOT TO SAC BUNT. Last time I checked

4 billion or whatever it is that didn't sac bunt is enormously larger than 3.

4,000,000,000 > 3

Cohen gotta GOhen

What's sad is that you really believe what you say. Wow!
OK. Go find me 2 instances where during a no hitter, 6th inning or later, in a 1-0 game, where the leadoff guy gets on base and there is no sac bunt. Not asking for 4,000,000,000. Just give me 2.

You won't. You'll say you don't have to prove it because the all knowing Dawg61 said it, then it must be true. But the real reason is that you can't. Oh, you'll make different excuses, but you can't is the reason.

And don't get me wrong. I know it's happened some, but I bet the instances of a sac bunt in that situation are more than not. I just don't think you can find any.

[Dawg61]

What's sad is that you really believe what you say. Wow!
OK. Go find me 2 instances where during a no hitter, 6th inning or later, in a 1-0 game, where the leadoff guy gets on base and there is no sac bunt. Not asking for 4,000,000,000. Just give me 2.

You won't. You'll say you don't have to prove it because the all knowing Dawg61 said it, then it must be true. But the real reason is that you can't. Oh, you'll make different excuses, but you can't is the reason.

And don't get me wrong. I know it's happened some, but I bet the instances of a sac bunt in that situation are more than not. I just don't think you can find any.

Sure just link me the box score for every no-hitter thrown in the last 60 years and I'll gladly look through them for you.

[smootness]

Sure just link me the box score for every no-hitter thrown in the last 60 years and I'll gladly look through them for you.

Nah. If you can't produce them on your own, then he's right. That's the standard we've been going with.