Isn't Bruce Pearl [Archive]

Coach34

03-09-2016, 10:07 PM

But basketball rebuilds happen more quickly than other sports?

Ray never had a chance- he was never going to get support from the people that mattered. We are lucky there was a successful, veteran coach out there affiliated with a major shoe company that needed a job. We were even luckier our boosters dropped him in Strick's lap.

Dawg61

03-09-2016, 11:45 PM

Pearl's team is a shell of what he thought he had going into the season. Suspensions, injuries etc have decimated Auburn this year.

Coach34

03-09-2016, 11:56 PM

Pearl's team is a shell of what he thought he had going into the season. Suspensions, injuries etc have decimated Auburn this year.

so what? Its year 2 for him. We heard over and over that it only takes a couple of good players to rebuild in basketball. Its easy

Dawg61

03-10-2016, 12:43 AM

so what? Its year 2 for him. We heard over and over that it only takes a couple of good players to rebuild in basketball. Its easy

Pearl had some nasty teams while at UT. I'm fine with him struggling for a couple years.

engie

03-10-2016, 05:22 AM

Pearl had some nasty teams while at UT. I'm fine with him struggling for a couple years.
Aren't you one of the ones that said repeatedly he would be dancing in year 2?

Thick

03-10-2016, 06:31 AM

Barrett Sallee says no way he is on the hot seat

Any chance Mustapha Heron wanta to change his mind?

No chance, his father played pro ball with one of Pearl's assistants...good friends.

mic

03-10-2016, 07:22 AM

Aren't you one of the ones that said repeatedly he would be dancing in year 2?

He might be dancing next year... On beale street...

engie

03-10-2016, 07:50 AM

My point isn't to demean Pearl either -- he is a great coach by my estimation. I'm just pointing out that it's harder than people have pretended for years in the SEC...

Dawg61

03-10-2016, 10:20 AM

Aren't you one of the ones that said repeatedly he would be dancing in year 2?

You're questioning me about basketball? Hahahaha

BayouDawg

03-10-2016, 10:29 AM

My point isn't to demean Pearl either -- he is a great coach by my estimation. I'm just pointing out that it's harder than people have pretended for years in the SEC...

Well you've also got to think when was the last time auburn was relevant in basketball? 99 or 2000? They have a culture of losing and it'll take some time to change it. Similar with Martin and USCe. But it is easier to rebuild from scratch in the SEC in basketball relative to rebuilding in the SEC in football. It still takes some time though

Coach34

03-10-2016, 10:45 AM

Well you've also got to think when was the last time auburn was relevant in basketball? 99 or 2000? They have a culture of losing and it'll take some time to change it. Similar with Martin and USCe. But it is easier to rebuild from scratch in the SEC in basketball relative to rebuilding in the SEC in football. It still takes some time though

Pearl just set a record at Auburn:

1st time in school history Auburn has lost 20 games in back to back seasons

engie

03-10-2016, 10:55 AM

Well you've also got to think when was the last time auburn was relevant in basketball? 99 or 2000? They have a culture of losing and it'll take some time to change it. Similar with Martin and USCe. But it is easier to rebuild from scratch in the SEC in basketball relative to rebuilding in the SEC in football. It still takes some time though

They've made a tournament run more recently than we have.

Dawg61

03-10-2016, 11:02 AM

Pearl just set a record at Auburn:

1st time in school history Auburn has lost 20 games in back to back seasons

Havent they shattered their attendance records too during these losing seasons. They also beat Kentucky.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 11:04 AM

IMO, Pearl will look for the best available job and bail. Same with Martin now that he has them dancing. USC and Auburn are terrible basketball schools which will never win consistantly. Cliff Ellis and Sonny Smith are great coaches and even they couldn't win at Auburn consistently. Eddie Fogler, a great coach, couldn't get it consistently going at USC either. USC will go back to sucking next year. Auburn, if they can avoid injury bug, should do well next year if Pearl doesn't bail. If Pearl does bail, I hope we go all in on getting Mustapha Heron. Pearl is the only reason he went there.

engie

03-10-2016, 11:06 AM

You're questioning me about basketball? Hahahaha

You're the one that said 8892349832 times that he would be dancing in year two. Guaranteed it. I'm just trying to see if you are man enough to own the fact that in year two, he actually had one of the worst Auburn teams in their history.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 11:09 AM

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 11:10 AM

They've made a tournament run more recently than we have.

I gotcha so SEC overall championships and SEC tournament championships mean nothing. Auburn has been a whipping boy in the SEC for 15 years or so in basketball. Stansbury's biggest issues IMO were the WTF losses we would have which would have us seeded in impossible positions (case in point 2007-2008 as an 8 seed). We should have played Memphis that year in the Sweet Sixteen not the second round. If you are lower then a five or six seed, a big tourney run is already stacked against you.

Johnson85

03-10-2016, 11:11 AM

so what? Its year 2 for him. We heard over and over that it only takes a couple of good players to rebuild in basketball. Its easy

It does only take a couple of good players to do most of the leg work turning around a program, but it also makes the variability swing that much more. What is the difference in Howland's performance if Holman doesn't hurt his knee until the beginning of next year and Malik doesn't come back versus Holman being hurt this year and Malik coming back next year.

No Holman next year and no Malik, and a team full of freshman and Weatherspoon probably still looks pretty bad (even though there will be a lot of promise in the future) and maybe even looks like a regression from the team at the end of this year (with a Holman that was healthy all year). But Malik comes back and a healthy Holman to go along with Weatherspoon and the freshmen probably looks like a solid step forward for the future.

I think what people underestimated is just how damn hard it is to get difference makers at your non-elite schools. It happens, but it's usually dependent on having an elite player with a geographic or other tie to the school (and who isn't set on going to an elite school) coming around at the right time.

We've had a lot of things go right for us. We had Howland available at the same time Malik was trying to decide on a school (I feel certain Howland was necessary to get Malik but am also thinking Malik made it much easier to get Howland), along with what looks to be a special in state player in Weatherspoon. I think Howland would have had us in a good position in year 3 and rolling by year 4 without Malik or Weatherspoon, but I think the first two years would have been a lot more painful, assuming Howland comes at all.

engie

03-10-2016, 11:19 AM

I gotcha so SEC overall championships and SEC tournament championships mean nothing. Auburn has been a whipping boy in the SEC for 15 years or so in basketball. Stansbury's biggest issues IMO were the WTF losses we would have which would have us seeded in impossible positions (case in point 2007-2008 as an 8 seed). We should have played Memphis that year in the Sweet Sixteen not the second round. If you are lower then a five or six seed, a big tourney run is already stacked against you.

My point is that we are no -- or minimially -- more relevant nationally than they are. No one in the country gives a shit about a bunch of 8-8/9-7 SEC west championships. They've had a couple of memorable teams in the same time span we've had a couple of memorable teams. The country couldn't tell you who won the SEC tourney or regular season last year -- on a given season -- unless that team also is chasing history/makes noise in the big dance. We are known for the 96 team, the 04 team and what could have been, Varnado chasing history, and fighting in the stands/being dysfunctional. That's the national viewpoint.

We've been better than we are perceived -- for sure. But that is not the point.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 11:33 AM

My point is that we are no -- or minimially -- more relevant nationally than they are. No one in the country gives a shit about a bunch of 8-8/9-7 SEC west championships. They've had a couple of memorable teams in the same time span we've had a couple of memorable teams. The country couldn't tell you who won the SEC tourney or regular season last year -- on a given season -- unless that team also is chasing history/makes noise in the big dance. We are known for the 96 team, the 04 team and what could have been, Varnado chasing history, and fighting in the stands/being dysfunctional. That's the national viewpoint.

We've been better than we are perceived -- for sure. But that is not the point.

Wow, you are really down playing our program. Since Auburn last went to the NCAA tournament, we have won one overall SEC championship, two SEC tournament championships, and had six NCAA tournament appearances. Engie, I like your posts but the post above is just wrong.

BayouDawg

03-10-2016, 11:40 AM

Pearl just set a record at Auburn:

1st time in school history Auburn has lost 20 games in back to back seasons

Yea that's shitty there's no way around that. I still don't know how they beat Kentucky

engie

03-10-2016, 11:49 AM

Wow, you are really down playing our program. Since Auburn last went to the NCAA tournament, we have won one overall SEC championship, two SEC tournament championships, and had six NCAA tournament appearances. Engie, I like your posts but the post above is just wrong.

All of that is nice for MSU fans. But it doesn't mean much in the national eye. Auburn also built a brand new $100 mil arena during that time period while we are playing in the amphitheatre of Pompey.

Currently, we are one of the longest-absent teams from the Sweet 16 in the power 5(really power 7 in terms of basketball). Unlike some, I'm not changing the measuring stick I used for Stans just because he isn't here anymore. It's a run of impotence that has to end. Soon.

Dawg61

03-10-2016, 12:09 PM

You're the one that said 8892349832 times that he would be dancing in year two. Guaranteed it. I'm just trying to see if you are man enough to own the fact that in year two, he actually had one of the worst Auburn teams in their history.

Pearl hasn't lived up to what I thought he would do so far and I'm happy about that. Why would that not make me happy? Auburn is our rival. I'd much rather they suck than prove something I said two years ago correct.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 02:31 PM

All of that is nice for MSU fans. But it doesn't mean much in the national eye. Auburn also built a brand new $100 mil arena during that time period while we are playing in the amphitheatre of Pompey.

Currently, we are one of the longest-absent teams from the Sweet 16 in the power 5(really power 7 in terms of basketball). Unlike some, I'm not changing the measuring stick I used for Stans just because he isn't here anymore. It's a run of impotence that has to end. Soon.

It will. We now have a coach that has a proven track record and wins big. He wins overall and conference tournament championships too. We really hit a grand slam with hiring Howland. There literally is no other coach I would have rather had then him. He is the basketball version of Nick Saban from a coaching and recruiting perspective.

Political Hack

03-10-2016, 02:51 PM

But basketball rebuilds happen more quickly than other sports?

They do. Should be 2-3 years tops. If you can't make it happen by then, it's unlikely IMO. You don't need 24 like football or 16+ like in baseball. You need 5-8 guys. You can replenish the well very quickly in basketball. It's also easier for freshmen to have immediate impacts. Time helps, but it can be done more quickly in basketball than in the other 2.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 02:56 PM

They do. Should be 2-3 years tops. If you can't make it happen by then, it's unlikely IMO. You don't need 24 like football or 16+ like in baseball. You need 5-8 guys. You can replenish the well very quickly in basketball. It's also easier for freshmen to have immediate impacts. Time helps, but it can be done more quickly in basketball than in the other 2.

I agree with this. Of course, this argument is moot now. We were belly aching before because Auburn got Bruce Pearl and we had Rick Ray. We now have Coach Ben Howland. I could give two shits about Auburn now anyway. They won't pass us regardless. Besides with the amount of success we have had in basketball in the last 20 years, you could argue we are a basketball school. The fact that we hired Rick Ray still boggles my mind.

Taog Redloh

03-10-2016, 03:00 PM

Ray never had a chance- he was never going to get support from the people that mattered. We are lucky there was a successful, veteran coach out there affiliated with a major shoe company that needed a job. We were even luckier our boosters dropped him in Strick's lap.
So if Ray's years count toward a rebuild (because he only failed due to lack of support), then technically shouldn't Howland be succeeding this year? At minimum, next year. According to you.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 03:06 PM

So if Ray's years count toward a rebuild (because he only failed due to lack of support), then technically shouldn't Howland be succeeding this year? At minimum, next year. According to you.

Ray would have failed no matter the support he had. He was not head coach material.

Taog Redloh

03-10-2016, 03:16 PM

Ray would have failed no matter the support he had. He was not head coach material.

I was quoting Coach34. Not my opinion. My opinion is that Ray was a terrible hire, after we fired Stansbury at the worst possible time.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:33 PM

So if Ray's years count toward a rebuild (because he only failed due to lack of support), then technically shouldn't Howland be succeeding this year? At minimum, next year. According to you.

I certainly think Howland underachieved this year. No doubt about it

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:34 PM

Ray would have failed no matter the support he had. He was not head coach material.

Had we funded AAU the way we did under Stands and gotten Ray some players- Ray would have been much better than he was

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:36 PM

My opinion is that Ray was a terrible hire, after we fired Stansbury at the worst possible time.

In hindsight- we certainly should have let Stands coach one more year to completely crash and burn- it would have unified the fanbase more. That 2013 team would have been awful no matter who coached it

Political Hack

03-10-2016, 03:40 PM

Had Ray not kicked his feet up and popped a cold beer the first time meeting one of the program's biggest supporters, who is a devout Christian and doesn't drink, he probably would've gotten more support. He made his own bed for the most part. Big time supporters don't want to watch us lose and see the Hump empty. They may be pissed Stans was cut lose, but the support would've been there had Ray played it correctly. He didn't.

Taog Redloh

03-10-2016, 03:41 PM

In hindsight- we certainly should have let Stands coach one more year to completely crash and burn- it would have unified the fanbase more. That 2013 team would have been awful no matter who coached it
Agreed on all. Should have fired him in 2011 or 2013 if we were going to do it. Best case scenario would have been him going to Clemson after 2009. No Sidney, and a new coach gets a decent program.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 03:41 PM

Had we funded AAU the way we did under Stands and gotten Ray some players- Ray would have been much better than he was

Really? He still would have sucked. He was not a head coach. He will crash and burn at SEMSU and then be out of coaching unless someone gives him an assistant position. A head coach he is not.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:42 PM

Had Ray not kicked his feet up and popped a cold beer the first time meeting one of the program's biggest supporters, who is a devout Christian and doesn't drink, he probably would've gotten more support.

Considering they were in Ray's office- that tells me more about what a sanctimonious tightass the booster is than anything about Ray

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:43 PM

Really? He still would have sucked. He was not a head coach. He will crash and burn at SEMSU and then be out of coaching unless someone gives him an assistant position. A head coach he is not.

Ray would have won just as many games if not more this season than Howland did. Ray didnt recruit well- that is obvious. But a big problem with that was the State network turning their back on him and the program.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 03:46 PM

Political Hack

03-10-2016, 03:50 PM

Considering they were in Ray's office- that tells me more about what a sanctimonious tightass the booster is than anything about Ray

It told me that Ray had beer in his office when he should've had a 12-pack of monster energy drinks.

Political Hack

03-10-2016, 03:51 PM

Ray would have won just as many games if not more this season than Howland did. Ray didnt recruit well- that is obvious. But a big problem with that was the State network turning their back on him and the program.

We disagree sometimes, but I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you've said more than I do this. Lol. No way man. That guy couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. I could've taken decent high school teams and ran Ricky Ray out of his own building.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 03:54 PM

Look, he sucked at recruiting, coaching offense, and was not the X's and O's guy you guys who backed him said he was. Gavin is not nearly effective this year under Ray, Sword wouldn't have gotten better whatsoever under Ray, no one really would have improved and Ray would have gotten fired anyway. Not to mention we would have been forced to continue to play zone because he couldn't teach man to man. In a lot of ways you could say, he would have done a lot worse this year then Howland.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:55 PM

LOL, that's priceless.

Priceless how? Howland only won 14 games- Ray won 13 last year. Add Q not to mention there would have been less turmoil this year with no coaching change and this team would have gelled much quicker. For this season- Ray would have done better most likely.

For the overall betterment of the program moving forward? Howland is the easy choice hands down

Coach34

03-10-2016, 03:59 PM

Sword wouldn't have gotten better whatsoever under Ray, no one really would have improved and Ray would have gotten fired anyway. .

You realize Sword was 2nd team All-SEC last year right?

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 04:18 PM

You realize Sword was 2nd team All-SEC last year right?

Not for anything Ray taught him. If Howland had our seniors as feshmen to seniors, this team would have made the NCAA and made some noise. Shit, if Howland would have had the seniors for one more year, he could have molded them into a tourney team. We had a good core of talent that was wasted for three years under shitty coaching.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 04:21 PM

Not for anything Ray taught him. If Howland had our seniors as feshmen to seniors, this team would have made the NCAA and made some noise. Shit, if Howland would have had the seniors for one more year, he could have molded them into a tourney team. We had a good core of talent that was wasted for three years under shitty coaching.

ohhhhh I knowwwww- Sword just made 2nd team All-SEC by showing up. I gotcha. Howland's 14 wins this season were magical this year and Ray's 13 wins last year were due to complete ineptness. You have made me see the light

Johnson85

03-10-2016, 04:27 PM

We disagree sometimes, but I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you've said more than I do this. Lol. No way man. That guy couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. I could've taken decent high school teams and ran Ricky Ray out of his own building.

I can actually believe that Ray would have won as many games this year as Howland or near about (if you assume we still get Malik and Holman). The difference is that Ray's team would have won more games early and at the end of the year, would have basically been as good as they were at the beginning.

I think Howland actually cost us some games early but the tradeoff is that we're a much better team now than we were at the beginning of the season and than we would be if Ray were still here.

I'm not sure it's the case that Ray would have won as many games but I can believe it's possible. I am sure that we are a better team now than we would be if Ray were still here.

MarketingBully

03-10-2016, 04:30 PM

ohhhhh I knowwwww- Sword just made 2nd team All-SEC by showing up. I gotcha. Howland's 14 wins this season were magical this year and Ray's 13 wins last year were due to complete ineptness. You have made me see the light

Ray was such a great coach he went 5-24 this year. Just awesome. And those 13 wins were in year three for Ray on a year he should have made some progress. But he didn't. Our year also isn't over yet so you can say at least 14 wins this year and Howland already has more SEC wins in his first year then Ray had in any of his three years.

I really don't understand why you even defend Ray's hire at all. He sucked and had no business as a P5 head coach. He was at the helm of the worst three year stretch in over 30 years of MSU basketball. You would have to go back to Bob Boyd to find a more inept stretch in our history.

Johnson85

03-10-2016, 04:45 PM

In hindsight- we certainly should have let Stands coach one more year to completely crash and burn- it would have unified the fanbase more. That 2013 team would have been awful no matter who coached it

The problem with this is he wouldn't have completely crashed and burned. He would have probably pulled a rabbit transfer out of his ass and had a borderline NIT team, and people would have been saying he'd get us back to the tourney when Sword, Ware, and Thomas weren't true freshmen.

Tbonewannabe

03-10-2016, 04:53 PM

ohhhhh I knowwwww- Sword just made 2nd team All-SEC by showing up. I gotcha. Howland's 14 wins this season were magical this year and Ray's 13 wins last year were due to complete ineptness. You have made me see the light

I liked the effort Rick Ray got the team to play with but you are saying Rick Ray is as good of a coach as Howland? Wasn't the rumor that not a single person on our team could set a proper screen? I will say Rick Ray would probably have won a couple of the early games but at the end of the year we would not be playing like we are. The SEC is considerably better this year than it has been in a while. UK isn't top 3 but almost the whole league is a lot better than last year.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 04:55 PM

Ray was such a great coach he went 5-24 this year. Just awesome. And those 13 wins were in year three for Ray on a year he should have made some progress. But he didn't. Our year also isn't over yet so you can say at least 14 wins this year and Howland already has more SEC wins in his first year then Ray had in any of his three years.

I really don't understand why you even defend Ray's hire at all. He sucked and had no business as a P5 head coach. He was at the helm of the worst three year stretch in over 30 years of MSU basketball. You would have to go back to Bob Boyd to find a more inept stretch in our history.

Ray got hired at SE MO to do the same thing he did at State- clean house and start over.

Dawg61

03-10-2016, 05:12 PM

Priceless how? Howland only won 14 games- Ray won 13 last year. Add Q not to mention there would have been less turmoil this year with no coaching change and this team would have gelled much quicker. For this season- Ray would have done better most likely.

For the overall betterment of the program moving forward? Howland is the easy choice hands down

No Malik or Holman and Q isn't as good without Howland and Newman. You still have Black, Dunlap, Ndoye and Tookie though so maybe.

Coach34

03-10-2016, 06:22 PM

I liked the effort Rick Ray got the team to play with but you are saying Rick Ray is as good of a coach as Howland?.

I'm not saying Ray is as good of a coach as Howland. Nowhere have I said that.

I'm saying that with this Sr led team-plus Q- that Ray would have won more games this year than Howland. There would not have been the turmoil of a new coach, there would not have been the team divide this year because of Newman. This team would have been led by Sword and Ware- with Q, IJ, Fred, Houston, and Daniels playing their role. Plus Tookie-Monster would have been here. Ware scored more points this year than last because he matured another year plus didnt have to share the paint with Roq anymore. It would have been the same with Ray as coach- this team had no choice but to play a Stretch-4 because there is no true power forward.

Howland is the better coach and better for the program moving forward- but strictly wins and losses- Ray most likely wins more this year

Raytoraid83

03-10-2016, 06:36 PM

I'm not saying Ray is as good of a coach as Howland. Nowhere have I said that.

I'm saying that with this Sr led team-plus Q- that Ray would have won more games this year than Howland. There would not have been the turmoil of a new coach, there would not have been the team divide this year because of Newman. This team would have been led by Sword and Ware- with Q, IJ, Fred, Houston, and Daniels playing their role. Plus Tookie-Monster would have been here. Ware scored more points this year than last because he matured another year plus didnt have to share the paint with Roq anymore. It would have been the same with Ray as coach- this team had no choice but to play a Stretch-4 because there is no true power forward.

Howland is the better coach and better for the program moving forward- but strictly wins and losses- Ray most likely wins more this year

http://www.gosoutheast.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball

Dawg61

03-10-2016, 06:41 PM

http://www.gosoutheast.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball

Lol Ray went 5-24 in the shittiest conference and kicked half his team off for no reason whatsoever.

archdog

03-11-2016, 12:14 AM