Hypothetical question re: compliance

[dickiedawg]

Let's say Ole Miss gets busted. Bowl ban, several years of lost scholarships, etc. Would that change your mind about the way our compliance department is run?
Say they tried the way we think it should be done, lawyer up and deny, and it blows up in their face. Does that make our approach more palatable?

[Coach34]

No

If they get busted- it wont be because they lawyered up- it will be because the NCAA found evidence that this really isnt a grass roots campaign by Miss State

[Pollodawg]

You all can tell me if this is true or not, but isn't a former high up at UGA now on the NCAA team in a pretty big capacity? Wasn't Richt furious about Tunsil? Seems to me like someone has OM's number. It could be time to pay up.

[Coach34]

You all can tell me if this is true or not, but isn't a former high up at UGA now on the NCAA team in a pretty big capacity? Wasn't Richt furious about Tunsil? Seems to me like someone has OM's number. It could be time to pay up.

Yes
Yes
And It appears so

[FISHDAWG]

wow - I check out for a few days and come back to this ... kinda like CNN around here - You Miss A Day... You miss a lot

[curmudgeon]

The job of our compliance department is to protect us, not go after other schools. If we are asked to turn over info we will do it, but we aren't active in taking anyone down.

That being said, we need an attorney running our compliance department, not a PE major.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

You all can tell me if this is true or not, but isn't a former high up at UGA now on the NCAA team in a pretty big capacity? Wasn't Richt furious about Tunsil? Seems to me like someone has OM's number. It could be time to pay up.
http://3rdand57.com/is-uga-posturing-at-ole-miss/
" Now add the bombshell that the UGA president, Michael Adams, who was sitting during these alleged transgressions, is transitioning to the NCAA infractions committee “to allow the committee to handle more cases and process more efficiently”. That could mean that UGA could bypass Slive and the SEC rules that prevent member institutions from turning one another in. "

[Pollodawg]

http://3rdand57.com/is-uga-posturing-at-ole-miss/
" Now add the bombshell that the UGA president, Michael Adams, who was sitting during these alleged transgressions, is transitioning to the NCAA infractions committee ?to allow the committee to handle more cases and process more efficiently?. That could mean that UGA could bypass Slive and the SEC rules that prevent member institutions from turning one another in. "

Good stuff. Not to mention, Slive will not protect OM from UGA and Bama. He will not tell the legit national championship contenders to hush on this to protect a team that isn't even a regular on the bowl scene.

[Bo Darville]

Dickie, I think the thinking is more along the lines of having someone in the department who is more a defender of MSU rather than the other way around. Lawyers, legal types are used to defending people. They even defend guilty people. You think OJ or Casey Anthony is guilty? Well there is a lawyer somewhere who will defend those people and make you do the work to prove that they are guilty.

The thinking in the Redmond case is that we were doing the NCAA's work for them. We were out trying to prove our guilt, rather than telling the NCAA that they will have to find it themselves. Now I know that we have to cooperate to a point, but why should we become their best investigator? Do you think Texas A&M is out turning over every stone trying to find the money trail where Manziel got paid? Of course not. Instead, they are telling the NCAA that they will cooperate fully, but believe that they and Manziel should have legal representation to protect their own interests. They are making the NCAA do the investigative work and the digging. Texas A&M is not going to hand the NCAA Manziel's head on a platter.

[codeDawg]

http://3rdand57.com/is-uga-posturing-at-ole-miss/
" Now add the bombshell that the UGA president, Michael Adams, who was sitting during these alleged transgressions, is transitioning to the NCAA infractions committee ?to allow the committee to handle more cases and process more efficiently?. That could mean that UGA could bypass Slive and the SEC rules that prevent member institutions from turning one another in. "

I think that is exactly what you have here. You have Adams with firsthand knowledge of what was going on in Oxford in a position to investigate without Slive able to hold UGA accountable. It's a bit of a perfect storm.

[dickiedawg]

Dickie, I think the thinking is more along the lines of having someone in the department who is more a defender of MSU rather than the other way around. Lawyers, legal types are used to defending people. They even defend guilty people. You think OJ or Casey Anthony is guilty? Well there is a lawyer somewhere who will defend those people and make you do the work to prove that they are guilty.

The thinking in the Redmond case is that we were doing the NCAA's work for them. We were out trying to prove our guilt, rather than telling the NCAA that they will have to find it themselves. Now I know that we have to cooperate to a point, but why should we become their best investigator? Do you think Texas A&M is out turning over every stone trying to find the money trail where Manziel got paid? Of course not. Instead, they are telling the NCAA that they will cooperate fully, but believe that they and Manziel should have legal representation to protect their own interests. They are making the NCAA do the investigative work and the digging. Texas A&M is not going to hand the NCAA Manziel's head on a platter.



I get all that. And I'm frustrated as heck that we turn ourselves in for a $100 handshake while other schools seem to be getting away with much worse. But if the second part of that equation were not true, it might sway my stance.

[engie]

Let's say Ole Miss gets busted. Bowl ban, several years of lost scholarships, etc. Would that change your mind about the way our compliance department is run?
Say they tried the way we think it should be done, lawyer up and deny, and it blows up in their face. Does that make our approach more palatable?

Even Johnnie Cochran didn't win every time. He still gave people their best chance of winning, however...

It's not so much about "lawyer up and deny" -- it's about "protect. educate, 'operate in the modern compliance environment' and don't make it easy"...

[Jack Lambert]

I know it will not be popular to say this but I think we went about the Redmond ordeal the right way. We were busted and with us cooperating with the NCAA got us of light as a program. Really they could have hammered us if they wanted and they were at a point that they needed to make a example of someone and we could have the that someone. I am just glad the Redmond investigation is behind us but the the NCAA seems to be on a witch hunt right now with Ole Miss and all I can say is better them then us.

[starkvegasdawg]

Do you think Texas A&M is out turning over every stone trying to find the money trail where Manziel got paid? Of course not.

I agree and disagree. I think they are most definitely doing their own off the record investigation, but I also think they have no intentions of turning it over to the NCAA. I think they want to know the truth so they can form a plan to cover it up and buy off who ever needs buying off.

[camsu]

I agree with Jack L, by the way a great LB what a hitter. They had us on Redmond so take it and move on. NCAA is fighting for its life with the Big Schools and OM is the first one out the gate since the Miami event. They have to make good to show Big 10, Pac12 and ACC they can even look into the mighty SEC. I think its there and NCAA is out to show it has grit to get it done.

[FISHDAWG]

meanwhile U of Miami continues to wait after 3 years now

[maroonmania]

I agree with Jack L, by the way a great LB what a hitter. They had us on Redmond so take it and move on. NCAA is fighting for its life with the Big Schools and OM is the first one out the gate since the Miami event. They have to make good to show Big 10, Pac12 and ACC they can even look into the mighty SEC. I think its there and NCAA is out to show it has grit to get it done.

I need someone to explain to me how they "had us on Redmond"? I'm not convinced that the NCAA cared one way or the other what had happened or hadn't happened with Redmond until we took the bull by the horns and self-reported it and served up Redmond to the NCAA. I mean was DeVinner already working with the NCAA against us on Redmond BEFORE we self-reported it? Not that he is much of a credible source anyway. And we are talking a few hundred dollars and a car discount. Doesn't seem like something the NCAA would have their panties in a wad over.

[Jack Lambert]

You had a third party summer 7 on 7 football coach who had firsthand knowledge about it and he wanted to be a Miss State football coach but Miss State did not want him on staff and that summer seven on seven coach was angry.

[camsu]

I heard that NCAA had it all - laid it on the table for Redmond and us and said you are lying, so he said yes what you have is correct. It was all over. There was nothing to fight. We did not self-report, NCAA came to us with the evidence. I agree I think the Redmond got more than he should have but it is what it is. We can only hope NCAA does not cave to the other schools in the future and is fair.

[maroonmania]

I heard that NCAA had it all - laid it on the table for Redmond and us and said you are lying, so he said yes what you have is correct. It was all over. There was nothing to fight. We did not self-report, NCAA came to us with the evidence. I agree I think the Redmond got more than he should have but it is what it is. We can only hope NCAA does not cave to the other schools in the future and is fair.

Sounds like you are getting a very different version of the story than most everyone else.

[Todd4State]

If anything, I think we need to shore up our compliance more than ever. Ole Miss is going to try to take this out on us and blame all of this on MSU despite the fact it's coming from a bunch of other schools and we have probably the least to do with it of anyone out there.

The truth is, Ole Miss can not handle us being better than them in football. Football is their equivalent to MSU baseball, except much less relevant on the respective national stage. They went completely apeshit after we beat Eli in 2001. That was the last straw for them at that time and they did everything that they could do to bring us down.

That is also why again, they went all out in 2011 with the Army AA guys. We were better than them and they had lost to Jacksonville State. Recruiting serves as their means to perpetuate their fantasy that they are relevant or will be back on the top again very soon. It doesn't even register in their little heads that they always out recruit people, but they still end up with a 3-6 win team every single year. How is that even possible if they really recruit all that well?

And then they happened to get a foot in the door of the top recruit in the country last year and they decided again to go all out. And now they've stepped on the toes of people like Geogia, Auburn, Alabama, Florida State, and etc. and now they are probably about to get fried.

And when that happens, they are not going to want to spend the whole time watching us recruit better- by default if they get what I think is coming to them- and beating their ass on the field year after year. They're going to want to take us down with them, and to combat that, we need to have a competent compliance director and staff that can handle it and not dig for dirt on us.

[Pollodawg]

If anything, I think we need to shore up our compliance more than ever. Ole Miss is going to try to take this out on us and blame all of this on MSU despite the fact it's coming from a bunch of other schools and we have probably the least to do with it of anyone out there.

The truth is, Ole Miss can not handle us being better than them in football. Football is their equivalent to MSU baseball, except much less relevant on the respective national stage. They went completely apeshit after we beat Eli in 2001. That was the last straw for them at that time and they did everything that they could do to bring us down.

That is also why again, they went all out in 2011 with the Army AA guys. We were better than them and they had lost to Jacksonville State. Recruiting serves as their means to perpetuate their fantasy that they are relevant or will be back on the top again very soon. It doesn't even register in their little heads that they always out recruit people, but they still end up with a 3-6 win team every single year. How is that even possible if they really recruit all that well?

And then they happened to get a foot in the door of the top recruit in the country last year and they decided again to go all out. And now they've stepped on the toes of people like Geogia, Auburn, Alabama, Florida State, and etc. and now they are probably about to get fried.

And when that happens, they are not going to want to spend the whole time watching us recruit better- by default if they get what I think is coming to them- and beating their ass on the field year after year. They're going to want to take us down with them, and to combat that, we need to have a competent compliance director and staff that can handle it and not dig for dirt on us.

This. Every word of it.

[Jack Lambert]

Sounds like you are getting a very different version of the story than most everyone else.

I'm just glad the investigation is behind us. We came out looking pretty good considering what they could have happen. Redmond got screwed pretty hard.

[maroonmania]

If anything, I think we need to shore up our compliance more than ever. Ole Miss is going to try to take this out on us and blame all of this on MSU despite the fact it's coming from a bunch of other schools and we have probably the least to do with it of anyone out there.

The truth is, Ole Miss can not handle us being better than them in football. Football is their equivalent to MSU baseball, except much less relevant on the respective national stage. They went completely apeshit after we beat Eli in 2001. That was the last straw for them at that time and they did everything that they could do to bring us down.

That is also why again, they went all out in 2011 with the Army AA guys. We were better than them and they had lost to Jacksonville State. Recruiting serves as their means to perpetuate their fantasy that they are relevant or will be back on the top again very soon. It doesn't even register in their little heads that they always out recruit people, but they still end up with a 3-6 win team every single year. How is that even possible if they really recruit all that well?

And then they happened to get a foot in the door of the top recruit in the country last year and they decided again to go all out. And now they've stepped on the toes of people like Geogia, Auburn, Alabama, Florida State, and etc. and now they are probably about to get fried.

And when that happens, they are not going to want to spend the whole time watching us recruit better- by default if they get what I think is coming to them- and beating their ass on the field year after year. They're going to want to take us down with them, and to combat that, we need to have a competent compliance director and staff that can handle it and not dig for dirt on us.

Truer words have never been spoken on this board. The real diehard OM fans can handle a lot of things, but they will NOT tolerate MSU having the better football program. That has been something that I've seen consistently over the past 30 years I've kept up with things. They will swing into action and fire a coach, buy recruits, pimp out their daughters, hire private investigators to initiate an NCAA investigation on MSU, smear MSU coaches and players, etc, etc. Basically do whatever is necessary to "make things right in the world". They truly can handle the SEC 'power' teams beating them regularly but not MSU. MSU fans definitely want us to be better than them as well but I just don't see MSU fans try and take things into their own hands to correct the situation if we aren't. That is sort of the difference as I see it.

[War Machine Dawg]

If anything, I think we need to shore up our compliance more than ever. Ole Miss is going to try to take this out on us and blame all of this on MSU despite the fact it's coming from a bunch of other schools and we have probably the least to do with it of anyone out there.

The truth is, Ole Miss can not handle us being better than them in football. Football is their equivalent to MSU baseball, except much less relevant on the respective national stage. They went completely apeshit after we beat Eli in 2001. That was the last straw for them at that time and they did everything that they could do to bring us down.

That is also why again, they went all out in 2011 with the Army AA guys. We were better than them and they had lost to Jacksonville State. Recruiting serves as their means to perpetuate their fantasy that they are relevant or will be back on the top again very soon. It doesn't even register in their little heads that they always out recruit people, but they still end up with a 3-6 win team every single year. How is that even possible if they really recruit all that well?

And then they happened to get a foot in the door of the top recruit in the country last year and they decided again to go all out. And now they've stepped on the toes of people like Geogia, Auburn, Alabama, Florida State, and etc. and now they are probably about to get fried.

And when that happens, they are not going to want to spend the whole time watching us recruit better- by default if they get what I think is coming to them- and beating their ass on the field year after year. They're going to want to take us down with them, and to combat that, we need to have a competent compliance director and staff that can handle it and not dig for dirt on us.

Nailed it. This is why I've been saying Mullen better watch his ass ever since we beat them in '09 and Mullen repeatedly jabbed them in the eye at every opportunity. I loved it and I'm glad he does it. But we can also never forget who we're dealing with: The fanbase that hired PIs to follow our coaches, had PIs dig dirt, had a booster sleep with an NCAA investigator, and have their media cronies bash us at every conceivable opportunity just to keep us on perpetual probation. We've GOT to shore up our own compliance, because they will stoop to any low and will NEVER stop trying to break us down. Honestly, I've never seen a fanbase that would rather drag down their rival program than work to elevate their program to a competitive level. But that's EXACTLY how the Rebears operate.

And let me make this point: Our "cheating" that we get caught for is the run of the mill, acceptable, in-bounds "cheating" that every school does. We just suck at hiding it, because Bloodhound Bracky is doing all of the investigatory work for the NCAA and sniffing out every time we fart in the wrong place. But what the Rebears have been doing the last few years is wayyyy out of bounds from what is deemed the acceptable levels of cheating. And in so doing, they've essentially pissed off the Dream Team of elite football programs in CFB history. They may skate for a while, but the clock has started ticking for them. The big boys have all aligned against them, so it's just a matter of time until they get ripped.

[maroonmania]

I'm just glad the investigation is behind us. We came out looking pretty good considering what they could have happen. Redmond got screwed pretty hard.

Agreed, what MSU got was just a very mild slap on the wrist. Redmond, on the other hand, is losing roughly 35% of his entire college career which is a total travesty.

[Johnson85]

And let me make this point: Our "cheating" that we get caught for is the run of the mill, acceptable, in-bounds "cheating" that every school does. We just suck at hiding it, because Bloodhound Bracky is doing all of the investigatory work for the NCAA and sniffing out every time we fart in the wrong place.

I'm not an insider, but my impression was that what went on with Redmond was out of the ordinary, in that you don't want to deal with a freaking wannabe street agent. I think if you've got boosters out giving impermissible benefits in front of some fat ass slimeball that's willing to try to blackmail the school, you might as well self report. Once you try to buy him off, he has you forever. I'd like to think that any boosters actually connected to the program would know better than to give benefits in front of somebody like that.

It just sucks that nobody was looking out for Redmond, and that fat piece of shit cost him a 1/3 of his college career, for taking less in benefits than probably 90% of the players on his level.