Bottom line on the coaching changes...

[Coach34]

You arent ever going to have a consistent defense with constant turnover. You just arent. You cant build relationships with HS coaches when you keep sending new coaches to them. It doesnt matter what the reason is that these guys leave- point is- they keep leaving. Good programs will lose coaches- but they usually have guys that stay as DC for 3-4 years or position guys that stay a long time that help continuity.

Miles? on his 4th DC in 12 years
Saban? on his 2nd DC
Sumlin? 2nd DC
Bielema? 2nd DC
Freezus? 1st DC

Mullen? 6th DC coming up for his 8th season.



But one thing I do want to point out- you know who doesnt leave? Mullen's buddies or as Mic calls them the Mullen Country Club. Sallach, Hevesy, Gonzo- all committed to staying and getting a check. But we cant keep a defensive assistant.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I wonder if Sallach was offered a "promotion" at another school if he'd even take it? They do have it made and seem untouchable.

[Really Clark?]

Big Bert has lost 12 or 13 total coaches since 2011. They had to actually write in noncompete clauses to keep his staff from leaving for other SEC schools. And well over half were lateral or even less prestigious jobs.

[BrunswickDawg]

How many OC's have those guys gone through? Saban has gone through at least 3 as has Sumlin.

People have bitched about the lack of DL push, our bad coverage schemes, our DC's who can't call aggressive D, bend but don't break. We overhaul the entire D staff and now it's the end of the world?

Meanwhile, we are stable on O, produce some of the best offenses in SEC history, and we are fools for keeping them around? Got it.

[Coach34]

Big Bert has lost 12 or 13 total coaches since 2011. They had to actually write in noncompete clauses to keep his staff from leaving for other SEC schools. And well over half were lateral or even less prestigious jobs.

But they dont constantly lose their entire defensive staff. Its not a revolving door at DC. We dont lose Sallach, Hevesy, or Knox cause nobody is going to hire them away.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Knox cause nobody is going to hire them away.

It seems like he gets more of a pass than the others, but I don't know why. Are RB's are severely underdeveloped.

[Dawgtini]

How many OC's have those guys gone through? Saban has gone through at least 3 as has Sumlin.

People have bitched about the lack of DL push, our bad coverage schemes, our DC's who can't call aggressive D, bend but don't break. We overhaul the entire D staff and now it's the end of the world?

Meanwhile, we are stable on O, produce some of the best offenses in SEC history, and we are fools for keeping them around? Got it.

Excellent post! I lived in Waycross for a number of years. You are just confirming there are still "good people" in that neck of the woods. There is definitely way too much "agenda" going on in some of these posts for me.

[dawgday166]

How many OC's have those guys gone through? Saban has gone through at least 3 as has Sumlin.

People have bitched about the lack of DL push, our bad coverage schemes, our DC's who can't call aggressive D, bend but don't break. We overhaul the entire D staff and now it's the end of the world?

Meanwhile, we are stable on O, produce some of the best offenses in SEC history, and we are fools for keeping them around? Got it.

The best yardage offenses perhaps ... also inflated by the OOC schedule. The football OOC schedule is like Stansbury's used to be. Can't seem to score more than 20 against the good SEC Ds tho. Sorta tired of hearing how great the O is when we get inside the red zone and can't score against good teams. There's always a good reason for that tho, according to Mullen.

Meanwhile the D coaches are expected to produce 20 or less points against them every game.

[Coach007]

This isn't a huge story! The house isn't folding. We just had our butts handed to us in recruiting. We needed a new defensive scheme. We got that! Turner went a different route.


Why is it people can't grasp being professional with respect for those around us.

[engie]

and Wommack is now the longest-tenured DC in the conference at 4 seasons in...

Everyone but OM has a ton of turnover. I think we know what's going on with them. To me, I don't mind how many guys we lose -- it's that we are losing them to lateral moves -- while the guys I really want to lose stay put. I'd be ok with the amount of turnover if we were forcing out the underperformers just as fast as the overperformers are leaving on their own...

[Liverpooldawg]

How many OC's have those guys gone through? Saban has gone through at least 3 as has Sumlin.

People have bitched about the lack of DL push, our bad coverage schemes, our DC's who can't call aggressive D, bend but don't break. We overhaul the entire D staff and now it's the end of the world?

Meanwhile, we are stable on O, produce some of the best offenses in SEC history, and we are fools for keeping them around? Got it.

Exactly.

[Liverpooldawg]

Poor, poor, pitiful MSU. Enough already. Stop the whining, it's getting really old.

[Coach007]

In the end,the choice was Turner's. Love the guy, but this isn't people running away from Mullen. You have a new defense. New staff.

[Really Clark?]

But they dont constantly lose their entire defensive staff. Its not a revolving door at DC. We dont lose Sallach, Hevesy, or Knox cause nobody is going to hire them away.

We don't constantly lose our entire defensive staff either. The DC position is the only one you point to as being an issue really. You are painting a narrative that's false. It's not uncommon for position coaches to leave every 2-4 years. You damn well know this and we have been right in line or a little better than avg of the defensive side of the ball. The only position you have any argument about is DC turnover and with context half of those at least we're completely out of our control or needed to be done. You wanted Torbush and Wilson gone as well. So eliminate those 2 from your list because you agreed with the decision. And you know it. Diaz the first time to Texas then to Miami and Collins to Florida. For guys looking to get out of here anyway possible they sure fell into nice situations. It's not like they left for Kansas like Torbush.

It sucks. It's not nearly as bad with Mullen as you make it out to be. Hev needs replacing because he has run his course. Sallach is fine as a coach. Does a good job with his group. But a TE coach needs to be a great recruiter as well. Those are legitimate issues. I don't disagree.

[HoopsDawg]

We overhaul the entire D staff and now it's the end of the world?

.

We didn't overhaul anything. They all left. Tony Hughes and David Turner were our 2 best recruiters on a very weak recruiting staff. Any way you want to look at it, it's a blow.

[smootness]

The primary reason we've lost so many DC's is because we keep hiring the young, up-and-coming guy. After a successful stint at an SEC school, they can then turn that into an even better job. It's not that hard to figure out.

[Jack Lambert]

These guys are leaving for open spots on those staffs. So I guess we are not the only ones losing coaches.

[Really Clark?]

The best yardage offenses perhaps ... also inflated by the OOC schedule. The football OOC schedule is like Stansbury's used to be. Can't seem to score more than 20 against the good SEC Ds tho. Sorta tired of hearing how great the O is when we get inside the red zone and can't score against good teams. There's always a good reason for that tho, according to Mullen.

Meanwhile the D coaches are expected to produce 20 or less points against them every game.

Our scoring offense ranks almost the same the last 2 years in all game or conference only games. Very consistant and in the top half of the league. The defense was 9th this year after 6th last year.

[mparkerfd20]

This isn't a huge story! The house isn't folding. We just had our butts handed to us in recruiting. We needed a new defensive scheme. We got that! Turner went a different route.


Why is it people can't grasp being professional with respect for those around us.

Because we literally have some of the dumbest fans in the SEC.

[Johnson85]

We don't constantly lose our entire defensive staff either. The DC position is the only one you point to as being an issue really. You are painting a narrative that's false. It's not uncommon for position coaches to leave every 2-4 years. You damn well know this and we have been right in line or a little better than avg of the defensive side of the ball. The only position you have any argument about is DC turnover and with context half of those at least we're completely out of our control or needed to be done. You wanted Torbush and Wilson gone as well. So eliminate those 2 from your list because you agreed with the decision. And you know it. Diaz the first time to Texas then to Miami and Collins to Florida. For guys looking to get out of here anyway possible they sure fell into nice situations. It's not like they left for Kansas like Torbush.

It sucks. It's not nearly as bad with Mullen as you make it out to be. Hev needs replacing because he has run his course. Sallach is fine as a coach. Does a good job with his group. But a TE coach needs to be a great recruiter as well. Those are legitimate issues. I don't disagree.

We have a problem with staff turnover. It's not a huge problem, but it is a problem. The problem we have now is that we lost our entire defensive staff in one season and also lost three of our best connections to MS high schools in Turner, Hughes, and I guess Sleepy.

[Coach34]

We don't constantly lose our entire defensive staff either. The DC position is the only one you point to as being an issue really. You are painting a narrative that's false. It's not uncommon for position coaches to leave every 2-4 years. You damn well know this and we have been right in line or a little better than avg of the defensive side of the ball. The only position you have any argument about is DC turnover and with context half of those at least we're completely out of our control or needed to be done. You wanted Torbush and Wilson gone as well. So eliminate those 2 from your list because you agreed with the decision. And you know it. Diaz the first time to Texas then to Miami and Collins to Florida. For guys looking to get out of here anyway possible they sure fell into nice situations. It's not like they left for Kansas like Torbush.

It sucks. It's not nearly as bad with Mullen as you make it out to be. Hev needs replacing because he has run his course. Sallach is fine as a coach. Does a good job with his group. But a TE coach needs to be a great recruiter as well. Those are legitimate issues. I don't disagree.

You dont get it- the reasons why dont matter at this point. Fired or leaving for a better job- doesnt matter. Irrelevant now. 6th DC entering the 8th season clearly shows there is a problem. You cant develop relationships for recruiting with a new DC every damn year.

[maroonmania]

We have a problem with staff turnover. It's not a huge problem, but it is a problem. The problem we have now is that we lost our entire defensive staff in one season and also lost three of our best connections to MS high schools in Turner, Hughes, and I guess Sleepy.

Its not staff turnover in general, its specifically defensive staff turnover. Like C34 said, the Mullen gang on offense aren't going anywhere.

[Really Clark?]

You dont get it- the reasons why dont matter at this point. Fired or leaving for a better job- doesnt matter. Irrelevant now. 6th DC entering the 8th season clearly shows there is a problem. You cant develop relationships for recruiting with a new DC every damn year.

The why doesn't matter? Yes it does or it doesn't matter at all that Saban lost nearly his entire defensive staff plus others either. He has a major problem then. Miles and Malzhan has a major problems for being on their 3rd DC in 3 years. The Arkansas staff has to wear name tags they have so much turnover Big Bert can't remember their names. Charlie Strong has had to hire how many in 2 years? 11 coaches?

Context does matter. Yes I want continuity at the DC spot as well. We could have kept that with Wilson. It was the right choice to not do so. If you had a choice between Florida (in which after one year Collins was getting HC interviews) or State as DC, do you honestly not see that as making a difference as why he left? Come on. The why makes a big difference.

[Dawgtini]

The why doesn't matter? Yes it does or it doesn't matter at all that Saban lost nearly his entire defensive staff plus others either. He has a major problem then. Miles and Malzhan has a major problems for being on their 3rd DC in 3 years. The Arkansas staff has to wear name tags they have so much turnover Big Bert can't remember their names. Charlie Strong has had to hire how many in 2 years? 11 coaches?

Context does matter. Yes I want continuity at the DC spot as well. We could have kept that with Wilson. It was the right choice to not do so. If you had a choice between Florida (in which after one year Collins was getting HC interviews) or State as DC, do you honestly not see that as making a difference as why he left? Come on. The why makes a big difference.
You can't argue against "The Agenda" with facts.

[Coach007]

You dont get it- the reasons why dont matter at this point. Fired or leaving for a better job- doesnt matter. Irrelevant now. 6th DC entering the 8th season clearly shows there is a problem. You cant develop relationships for recruiting with a new DC every damn year.

It doesn't show there is a problem. This post clearly shows you want it to be a problem to go along with your other "issues" with Mullen.

[Jarius]

Its not staff turnover in general, its specifically defensive staff turnover. Like C34 said, the Mullen gang on offense aren't going anywhere.

The Mullen gang on offense is not going anywhere because no one wants them. Mullen's problem on the defensive side of the ball are that he is hiring good up and coming coaches (and some not good up and coming coaches). They are either doing well and getting hired by a better program or doing bad and getting fired. He could go the Ole Miss route and hire a washed up has been that doesn't have any aspirations (similar to what he has done with Sallach and hevesy) and then we would be mad about the same thing on defense that we are mad about on offense.

[Coach34]

It doesn't show there is a problem. This post clearly shows you want it to be a problem to go along with your other "issues" with Mullen.

Whatever you say. And dont for a second think I'm the only one that has issues with Mullen. There's a damn good reason his Foundation contract wasnt extended by a year even after winning 9 games.

[DudyDawg]

No mora agendas

[SignalToNoise]

Mullen is the Steve Jobs of football coaches.

He's brash and demanding and people continue to leave for bosses that are easier to work for. Some can tolerate it, though, and stick around (similar to Andy Hertzfeld and Steve Wozniak). The #1 ranking of 2014 is his Apple II- the biggest success he's had and is still living off of it. 2015 was his original Macintosh- it was supposed to be so great but it really underachieved.

Maybe -- just maybe -- we'll get his version of the iPod/iPhone/iPad soon, which I guess would be winning the SEC or making the CFP. That one is open to interpretation.

[Dawg Facts]

I always enjoy reading elitedawgs. I enjoy your facts Coach34. I do not like to post, just enjoy reading. I will add what I do know for a fact. I have a good friend that coached with Hudspeth at UNA. He knew Hud was a huge State fan and always wanted to coach at MSU, "his dream job". After Hud joined the staff at State he asked him at a clinic how he was liking it and Hud said he did not like it. My friend asked him why and he told this story. Hud said that State was in a game and coach Hud said he noticed something the defense was doing and Hud called a play in for our offence. We scored on that play. Hud said that Mullen likes to script the majority of the plays and does not like to deviate from the game plan. After we scored Mullen got on the head set and chewed Hud out through the extra point, through kickoff, and half way into the first play of defense for deviating from the game plan even though we scored. Hud was co-oc and he was looking to get out at that point. Just what I know.

[Liverpooldawg]

It doesn't show there is a problem. This post clearly shows you want it to be a problem to go along with your other "issues" with Mullen.

YEP.

[Political Hack]

Brewer, Manny, Hud, Mirando, Turner, Melvin (the yesteryear Melvin not Melvin of late), Hughes, and a few more were very good recruiters. We've lost all of them for a variety of reasons, but the bottom line remains we keep losing our best recruiting coaches.

Our defense has underachieved year in and year out. I expect us to get better with a new staff actually, so I'm not concerned about that. We need guys who can recruit though. The new hires look promising. We'll see how it works out.

[Dawgtini]

It doesn't show there is a problem. This post clearly shows you want it to be a problem to go along with your other "issues" with Mullen.

Exactly. Foundation contract or no.

[smootness]

Brewer, Manny, Hud, Mirando, Turner, Melvin (the yesteryear Melvin not Melvin of late), Hughes, and a few more were very good recruiters. We've lost all of them for a variety of reasons, but the bottom line remains we keep losing our best recruiting coaches.

Our defense has underachieved year in and year out. I expect us to get better with a new staff actually, so I'm not concerned about that. We need guys who can recruit though. The new hires look promising. We'll see how it works out.

But we also added several of those guys into Mullen's tenure. And people keep complaining about our recruiting, so they obviously weren't that phenomenal. Brewer was a big loss, but he was never going to stick around. Hughes was the only one of those guys that is a really big loss in recruiting ability, IMO.

[HaggardDawg]

In the end,the choice was Turner's. Love the guy, but this isn't people running away from Mullen. You have a new defense. New staff.

It absolutely is people running away from Mullen. He has a terrible reputation amongst the coaching profession as being an ass and extremely difficult to work for. Turner took the high road and waited until after signing day but make no mistake about it, he did not like working for Mullen. The defensive staff has never had internal problems with one another. They're problem has always been with Mullen. Turner, Melvin, Hughes didn't all leave because of the DCs, they left because Mullen sucks to work for.

[Big4Dawg]

It absolutely is people running away from Mullen. He has a terrible reputation amongst the coaching profession as being an ass and extremely difficult to work for. Turner took the high road and waited until after signing day but make no mistake about it, he did not like working for Mullen. The defensive staff has never had internal problems with one another. They're problem has always been with Mullen. Turner, Melvin, Hughes didn't all leave because of the DCs, they left because Mullen sucks to work for.

He hated working for Mullen so much that he did twice? hmm

[Really Clark?]

It absolutely is people running away from Mullen. He has a terrible reputation amongst the coaching profession as being an ass and extremely difficult to work for. Turner took the high road and waited until after signing day but make no mistake about it, he did not like working for Mullen. The defensive staff has never had internal problems with one another. They're problem has always been with Mullen. Turner, Melvin, Hughes didn't all leave because of the DCs, they left because Mullen sucks to work for.

Yeah you are full of crap. Go to the coaches convention and comeback with that spiel. And there is not a poster with inside knowledge on this page that would not have helped Melvin pack when that went down.

[Coach34]

He hated working for Mullen so much that he did twice? hmm

sometimes you take jobs for good money you wouldnt ordinarily take

[Really Clark?]

sometimes you take jobs for good money you wouldnt ordinarily take

Didn't Hughes turn down more money from UNM? I know Jay was here and that was a big difference but Big Sal left Bama for Tenn when his son was still at Bama. It's not like it doesn't happen. Although, Hughes is not the type to have done so.

[basedog]

34 you make some good points, but as for as Turner, I'm ok with his departure. Since he left once before it's no surprise he decided to leave again, maybe it was Mullen, maybe he got more money, maybe he though he should be DC, maybe he doesn't fit in with the new defensive coaches we have.

I think much has to do with "stirring the pot", when we start losing I will be all in for Mullen going, but as long as he wins I could care less what is happening.

Agenda versus Ratings = Elitedawg

[TXDawg]

sometimes you take jobs for good money you wouldnt ordinarily take

But I thought we were cheap with assistant's salaries. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

[dawgday166]

Our scoring offense ranks almost the same the last 2 years in all game or conference only games. Very consistant and in the top half of the league. The defense was 9th this year after 6th last year.

2015 2014 2015 Sec Rank 2014 Sec Rank
All games 34.4 36.9 5 2
Non-C 47.4 42.0 2 4
Conf 26.3 33.8 6 (5th in West) 5 (3rd in West)
AP Ranked 17.3 27.3 9th (6th in West & Behind Aub ... REALLY??) 5 (2nd in West)

In 2014 our Eastern div opponents were KY & Vandy ... so that will skew the numbers some. What killed me was 20, 17, 17 against Bama, Ark, and OM to end the year. And what's really killing me is in 7 years, only 1 with greater than 10 against Bama. I kinda thought Mullen was the next Bill Walsh ... as C34 has said.

Edited to add: I have it in a more tabular form until I submit it. Not sure how to correct that right now.

[AROB44]

34 you make some good points, but as for as Turner, I'm ok with his departure. Since he left once before it's no surprise he decided to leave again, maybe it was Mullen, maybe he got more money, maybe he though he should be DC, maybe he doesn't fit in with the new defensive coaches we have.

I think much has to do with "stirring the pot", when we start losing I will be all in for Mullen going, but as long as he wins I could care less what is happening.

Agenda versus Ratings = Elitedawg

+1000 ----- You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to basedog again.

[HaggardDawg]

Yeah you are full of crap. Go to the coaches convention and comeback with that spiel. And there is not a poster with inside knowledge on this page that would not have helped Melvin pack when that went down.

I'm not saying it wasn't time for Melvin to move on. What I'm saying is that he treated Melvin like crap from Day 1. You don't constantly belittle a man in front of his players and peers and expect him not to harness animosity. You didn't have to be an insider to witness that. Just go to an open practice. I have no agenda against Mullen but this turnover and his management reputation will rear its ugly head eventually. Coaches want to draw a paycheck but like all of us want to work for someone that is good to them. Turners departure is a result of the latter.

[Taog Redloh]

You arent ever going to have a consistent defense with constant turnover. You just arent. You cant build relationships with HS coaches when you keep sending new coaches to them. It doesnt matter what the reason is that these guys leave- point is- they keep leaving. Good programs will lose coaches- but they usually have guys that stay as DC for 3-4 years or position guys that stay a long time that help continuity.

Miles? on his 4th DC in 12 years
Saban? on his 2nd DC
Sumlin? 2nd DC
Bielema? 2nd DC
Freezus? 1st DC

Mullen? 6th DC coming up for his 8th season.



But one thing I do want to point out- you know who doesnt leave? Mullen's buddies or as Mic calls them the Mullen Country Club. Sallach, Hevesy, Gonzo- all committed to staying and getting a check. But we cant keep a defensive assistant.

Brunswick Dawg already proved you wrong. I'll just leave it at that.

[Dawgtini]

34 you make some good points, but as for as Turner, I'm ok with his departure. Since he left once before it's no surprise he decided to leave again, maybe it was Mullen, maybe he got more money, maybe he though he should be DC, maybe he doesn't fit in with the new defensive coaches we have.

I think much has to do with "stirring the pot", when we start losing I will be all in for Mullen going, but as long as he wins I could care less what is happening.

Agenda versus Ratings = Elitedawg
+1

[smootness]

It absolutely is people running away from Mullen. He has a terrible reputation amongst the coaching profession as being an ass and extremely difficult to work for. Turner took the high road and waited until after signing day but make no mistake about it, he did not like working for Mullen. The defensive staff has never had internal problems with one another. They're problem has always been with Mullen. Turner, Melvin, Hughes didn't all leave because of the DCs, they left because Mullen sucks to work for.

Turner came back and stayed for 3 years, Diaz came back, Hughes stayed for 7 years, Knox has stayed for 7 years, Gonzalez eventually followed him, Brian Johnson has stuck around, he keeps attracting talented coaches...yeah, clear evidence that nobody wants to work for him.**

[FISHDAWG]

Excellent post! I lived in Waycross for a number of years. You are just confirming there are still "good people" in that neck of the woods. There is definitely way too much "agenda" going on in some of these posts for me.

ever played the Okefenokee Country Club there ?

[BrunswickDawg]

Excellent post! I lived in Waycross for a number of years. You are just confirming there are still "good people" in that neck of the woods. There is definitely way too much "agenda" going on in some of these posts for me.
POGO for President! Still some good folks in South GA. You in timber or chemicals? Alot of both in those swamps.

[chef dixon]

This agenda against Mullen is a really dangerous game to play and every time an opportunity presents itself to make it worse this board does just that.

[War Machine Dawg]

and Wommack is now the longest-tenured DC in the conference at 4 seasons in...

Everyone but OM has a ton of turnover. I think we know what's going on with them. To me, I don't mind how many guys we lose -- it's that we are losing them to lateral moves -- while the guys I really want to lose stay put. I'd be ok with the amount of turnover if we were forcing out the underperformers just as fast as the overperformers are leaving on their own...

THIS. We can't GIVE away Hev, Sallach, and Knox. But it's not a problem to be on our 6th DC in 8 years or lose our entire defensive staff.****

[Dawgtini]

POGO for President! Still some good folks in South GA. You in timber or chemicals? Alot of both in those swamps.

"ever played the Okefenokee Country Club there ?"

No on the Okefenokee Country Club. And back then I was in timber.

[Taog Redloh]

This agenda against Mullen is a really dangerous game to play and every time an opportunity presents itself to make it worse this board does just that.
He's doing the same thing with Cohen. Can we see a pattern here? Is that Stans I see?

Coach34 and his cronies themselves are powerless. They are just the ring-leaders of the emotional blow-hards. I just see no reason to spread the agendas on public message boards.

[CadaverDawg]

To me, I don't mind how many guys we lose -- it's that we are losing them to lateral moves -- while the guys I really want to lose stay put. I'd be ok with the amount of turnover if we were forcing out the underperformers just as fast as the overperformers are leaving on their own...

Great post, I agree. To anyone not understanding some of the worry....read this^.

[chef dixon]

He's doing the same thing with Cohen. Can we see a pattern here? Is that Stans I see?

Coach34 and his cronies themselves are powerless. They are just the ring-leaders of the emotional blow-hards. I just see no reason to spread the agendas on public message boards.

I agree. This is going to continue to happen with every coach we have at MSU because of unrealistic expectations.

[dawgday166]

I agree. This is going to continue to happen with every coach we have at MSU because of unrealistic expectations.

Unrealistic?? Mullen set the expectations when he said he came here to compete for championships. We did that very briefly in 2014 and that looks to be the last time it will be accomplished. And he'll probably keep reminding us that we were #1 for 5 weeks from now until he leaves for some reason.

[DawgNamedScuba]

How about we just do this!

http://coachch.weebly.com/uploads/5/7/9/6/57963593/3824278_orig.jpg

[chef dixon]

Unrealistic?? Mullen set the expectations when he said he came here to compete for championships. We did that very briefly in 2014 and that looks to be the last time it will be accomplished. And he'll probably keep reminding us that we were #1 for 5 weeks from now until he leaves for some reason.

It must be hard on yourself as a fan to keep expected our coach to win the SEC every year at MSU when we've NEVER done it before is what I'm getting at. Look objectively at who we are and who our competition is, Jesus as our head coach would struggle. And wow, you've given him exactly 1 more season before you've declared that he could never compete for one again.

[BrunswickDawg]

It must be hard on yourself as a fan to keep expected our coach to win the SEC every year at MSU when we've NEVER done it before is what I'm getting at. Look objectively at who we are and who our competition is, Jesus as our head coach would struggle. And wow, you've given him exactly 1 more season before you've declared that he could never compete for one again.
Well, everyone knows Jesus would coach at Ole Miss, so your argument is moot.**

[dawgday166]

It must be hard on yourself as a fan to keep expected our coach to win the SEC every year at MSU when we've NEVER done it before is what I'm getting at. Look objectively at who we are and who our competition is, Jesus as our head coach would struggle. And wow, you've given him exactly 1 more season before you've declared that he could never compete for one again.

I don't expect that ... but I don't expect to lose to Bama, LSU, TAM, and OM every year either. I kinda expect to finish better than 4th in SEC W most years too. It's really getting old getting absolutely obliterated by Bama every year. I hope we don't wait long enough for Mullen to go another 3-19 against those 4 teams.

Ok ... having said that ... clean slate on D now. Let's see what happens over course of next 2 years. That will put the really good recruiting class of 2015 as true Jrs or RSophs.

BTW ... The competition in SEC W (other than Bama) the last 2 years ain't been earth shattering IMO.

[Coach34]

But I thought we were cheap with assistant's salaries. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

We are cheap for the SEC- Turner did want to end up making along less coaching Conf USA ball or something like that

[Coach34]

He's doing the same thing with Cohen. Can we see a pattern here? Is that Stans I see?

Coach34 and his cronies themselves are powerless. They are just the ring-leaders of the emotional blow-hards. I just see no reason to spread the agendas on public message boards.

Doing what with Cohen? I just said no more excuses- NCAA Tourney or adios.

What magical "power" am I supposed to have Goat??? As usual- your post is ��

[chef dixon]

I don't expect that ... but I don't expect to lose to Bama, LSU, TAM, and OM every year either. I kinda expect to finish better than 4th in SEC W most years too. It's really getting old getting absolutely obliterated by Bama every year. I hope we don't wait long enough for Mullen to go another 3-19 against those 4 teams.

Ok ... having said that ... clean slate on D now. Let's see what happens over course of next 2 years. That will put the really good recruiting class of 2015 as true Jrs or RSophs.

BTW ... The competition in SEC W (other than Bama) the last 2 years ain't been earth shattering IMO.

I can agree with that. We do need to improve against those teams. We have come a long way though and I'm not sure the correct route from the position we are in now to take the next step. It has got to be the perfect move if we make one because an error could be disastrous.

Yes the competition on the field hasn't seemed earth shattering, but almost all the schools in the SECW have bigger, more all-in fan bases and are recruiting at a significantly higher level than we are. That's why I would argue that Mullen is doing a decent job with his results on the field despite that disadvantage. We are fighting against a really bad historic reputation here at MSU and not doing a terrible job. Our fans see it everyday when they post articles that give us no respect etc but then can't understand why we don't keep coaches or recruit as well as other schools.

[basedog]

I can agree with that. We do need to improve against those teams. We have come a long way though and I'm not sure the correct route from the position we are in now to take the next step. It has got to be the perfect move if we make one because an error could be disastrous.

Yes the competition on the field hasn't seemed earth shattering, but almost all the schools in the SECW have bigger, more all-in fan bases and are recruiting at a significantly higher level than we are. That's why I would argue that Mullen is doing a decent job with his results on the field despite that disadvantage. We are fighting against a really bad historic reputation here at MSU and not doing a terrible job. Our fans see it everyday when they post articles that give us no respect etc but then can't understand why we don't keep coaches or recruit as well as other schools.

I agree, we have two famous sayings at Msu:

1) Graveyard for Coaches
2) We eat our own

I do think many have no idea of our history and really don't know or realize how far we have come so quickly! Just because we have more money and it does make it easier but the rich get richer such as Bama, and we will never in my lifetime get to that level!

[Percho]

You arent ever going to have a consistent defense with constant turnover. You just arent. You cant build relationships with HS coaches when you keep sending new coaches to them. It doesnt matter what the reason is that these guys leave- point is- they keep leaving. Good programs will lose coaches- but they usually have guys that stay as DC for 3-4 years or position guys that stay a long time that help continuity.

Miles? on his 4th DC in 12 years
Saban? on his 2nd DC
Sumlin? 2nd DC
Bielema? 2nd DC
Freezus? 1st DC

Mullen? 6th DC coming up for his 8th season.



But one thing I do want to point out- you know who doesnt leave? Mullen's buddies or as Mic calls them the Mullen Country Club. Sallach, Hevesy, Gonzo- all committed to staying and getting a check. But we cant keep a defensive assistant.

How happy have you been with the defense over those years. Maybe when DM finds someone who likes him on the defense side of the ball we will be much happier.

[Percho]

It must be hard on yourself as a fan to keep expected our coach to win the SEC every year at MSU when we've NEVER done it before is what I'm getting at. Look objectively at who we are and who our competition is, Jesus as our head coach would struggle. And wow, you've given him exactly 1 more season before you've declared that he could never compete for one again.

We would have already fired, Jesus!

[Blackout]

I always enjoy reading elitedawgs. I enjoy your facts Coach34. I do not like to post, just enjoy reading. I will add what I do know for a fact. I have a good friend that coached with Hudspeth at UNA. He knew Hud was a huge State fan and always wanted to coach at MSU, "his dream job". After Hud joined the staff at State he asked him at a clinic how he was liking it and Hud said he did not like it. My friend asked him why and he told this story. Hud said that State was in a game and coach Hud said he noticed something the defense was doing and Hud called a play in for our offence. We scored on that play. Hud said that Mullen likes to script the majority of the plays and does not like to deviate from the game plan. After we scored Mullen got on the head set and chewed Hud out through the extra point, through kickoff, and half way into the first play of defense for deviating from the game plan even though we scored. Hud was co-oc and he was looking to get out at that point. Just what I know.

I believe it.

Say it together: I-MAG-IN-A-TION

Imagination. Mullen has none.

[Todd4State]

I believe it.

Say it together: I-MAG-IN-A-TION

Imagination. Mullen has none.

No question that our play calling and personnel usage has gotten a lot more vanilla since Hud left.

[Coach34]

oh I know 100% Hud didnt like working for Mullen.

[t45fixer]

I'll put it out there. Mullen is a f---ing jerk. Period end of story. It will continue until he's gone. Not that I don't mind being bowl eligible every year. I don't, but this is his ceiling.

[IMissJack]

It's the money!!!

[Coast Dawg]

Mullen is the Steve Jobs of football coaches.

He's brash and demanding and people continue to leave for bosses that are easier to work for. Some can tolerate it, though, and stick around (similar to Andy Hertzfeld and Steve Wozniak). The #1 ranking of 2014 is his Apple II- the biggest success he's had and is still living off of it. 2015 was his original Macintosh- it was supposed to be so great but it really underachieved.

Maybe -- just maybe -- we'll get his version of the iPod/iPhone/iPad soon, which I guess would be winning the SEC or making the CFP. That one is open to interpretation.

Let's just hope we don't get his version of the Sony Walkman!

[bulldawg28]

Turner came back and stayed for 3 years, Diaz came back, Hughes stayed for 7 years, Knox has stayed for 7 years, Gonzalez eventually followed him, Brian Johnson has stuck around, he keeps attracting talented coaches...yeah, clear evidence that nobody wants to work for him.**

Yes sir 100% truth.

[bulldawg28]

oh I know 100% Hud didnt like working for Mullen.



Who cares? If my understudy wanted my job that I wasn't prepared to leave I'd make it uneasy on him too. Hud was about Hud

[Schultzy]

Who cares? If my understudy wanted my job that I wasn't prepared to leave I'd make it uneasy on him too. Hud was about Hud

Didn't Byrne hire Hud as an assistant before hiring Mullen? Not a good move by Byrne at all and a bad situation for both coaches.

[JoseBrown]

Didn't Byrne hire Hud as an assistant before hiring Mullen? Not a good move by Byrne at all and a bad situation for both coaches.

Yes he did. At least that's my crappy memory... I didn't think that would work out too well either, but the product on the field sure got better quickly.

[Political Hack]

Who cares? If my understudy wanted my job that I wasn't prepared to leave I'd make it uneasy on him too. Hud was about Hud

I don't think that's it. I think Hud wants to be a head coach and wasn't prepared to be just a position coach. Given how his hiring worked out, it's understandable that the two weren't ever going to mesh as well as the otherwise could have. I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that.

[GTHOM]

You arent ever going to have a consistent defense with constant turnover. You just arent. You cant build relationships with HS coaches when you keep sending new coaches to them. It doesnt matter what the reason is that these guys leave- point is- they keep leaving. Good programs will lose coaches- but they usually have guys that stay as DC for 3-4 years or position guys that stay a long time that help continuity.

Miles? on his 4th DC in 12 years
Saban? on his 2nd DC
Sumlin? 2nd DC
Bielema? 2nd DC
Freezus? 1st DC

Mullen? 6th DC coming up for his 8th season.



But one thing I do want to point out- you know who doesnt leave? Mullen's buddies or as Mic calls them the Mullen Country Club. Sallach, Hevesy, Gonzo- all committed to staying and getting a check. But we cant keep a defensive assistant.

BOOOOMMMMMM