Chris Jones

[mechdog]

Sorry if I missed this in another thread, but I thought this was interesting. I don't know how much we can read in to this, but given some people's talk about Chris being interviewed regarding HF, I thought it was worth posting. This is the first time that he has retweeted Freeze that I'm aware of. Just thought it was interesting given the timing and rumors swirling.

http://i.imgur.com/qTvXmKY.jpg

[msstate7]

Retweeted freeze and tweeted at Aj... Doesn't look like a guy with a vendetta against om for sure

[starkvegasdawg]

Retweeted freeze and tweeted at Aj... Doesn't look like a guy with a vendetta against om for sure

He's still in deep cover narcing.

[HaggardDawg]

He's posted pics on IG of hanging with Greg Hardy. His agent needs to get in his ear about that. Hardy is radioactive, you don't want to be near him if you want to impress NFL execs.

[RC3]

that whole thing is weird. why would you retweet the coach of your rival? why would you tweet at a kid congratulating him after he spurned MSU?? just stinks to me

[RougeDawg]

Retweeted freeze and tweeted at Aj... Doesn't look like a guy with a vendetta against om for sure

No. If he did Bucky would've gotten the boot in 2013. CJ has enough evidence to stop the investigation this morning but won't roll on the beav. For whatever reason the majority of these gullible ignorant 17-18 year olds can't see through his bullshit. It ks beyond my thought process to understand how these kids can't see that Buckybjustbuses peplum for his own gain. He only signs players to get who generally wants and then cuts the one he didn't care about. The list goes on and on but I'll leave that to another thread.

[msstate7]

that whole thing is weird. why would you retweet the coach of your rival? why would you tweet at a kid congratulating him after he spurned MSU?? just stinks to me

At the expense of reading way too much into tweets, I don't think the NCAA will be getting anything damning from Chris jones.

[RC3]

At the expense of reading way too much into tweets, I don't think the NCAA will be getting anything damning from Chris jones.

i don't either. part of me even thinks the guy wanted to go to school there. might lend some credibility to some stories i heard in the past...anyways. glad he was a dawg and i hope he has a great career in the NFL

[ShotgunDawg]

Chris is a really nice guy that tells people what they want to hear. It's something he's going to have to overcome to have success at the next level. Very few people are able to develop a killer instinct they don't naturally have.

[RougeDawg]

Chris is a really nice guy that tells people what they want to hear. It's something he's going to have to overcome to have success at the next level. Very few people are able to develop a killer instinct they don't naturally have.

It's a lot different than you think and you'd have a very different opinion of CJ if you knew the truth.

[BeardoMSU]

Not a good look.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's a lot different than you think and you'd have a very different opinion of CJ if you knew the truth.

Cool. Enlighten me then

I really like Chris and am proud he was a bulldog, but you say that also call a spade a spade

[msstate7]

Sorry if I missed this in another thread, but I thought this was interesting. I don't know how much we can read in to this, but given some people's talk about Chris being interviewed regarding HF, I thought it was worth posting. This is the first time that he has retweeted Freeze that I'm aware of. Just thought it was interesting given the timing and rumors swirling.

http://i.imgur.com/qTvXmKY.jpg

If "love is patient", why not wait till the girl was of age, Hugh?

[Dawg61]

It's a lot different than you think and you'd have a very different opinion of CJ if you knew the truth.

What's this about? Strange thread. It's also strange that CJ follows Freezus, retweets Freezus and talks to him on the phone still.

[djaymsu5]

Wow what the hell is wrong with these kids.

[Jack Lambert]

I think Freeze has the Jim Jones level of Charisma and he had no choice but to stay close to Chris Jones to keep him quiet. Unfortunately Chris is easy manipulated.

Lets just hope that we don't wake up one morning and half of the Ole Miss faithful hasn't drinking the poison kool-aid.

[Johnson85]

No. If he did Bucky would've gotten the boot in 2013. CJ has enough evidence to stop the investigation this morning but won't roll on the beav. For whatever reason the majority of these gullible ignorant 17-18 year olds can't see through his bullshit. It ks beyond my thought process to understand how these kids can't see that Buckybjustbuses peplum for his own gain. He only signs players to get who generally wants and then cuts the one he didn't care about. The list goes on and on but I'll leave that to another thread.

I doubt they're suckered by his bullshit as much as he just looks like another business man to them. These are kids that if they don't have some serious parents running interference, are subjected to pretty shady characters as early as they are identified as a good recruit. Freeze's hypocrisy isn't going to particularly bother most of them. Hell, at worst, they probably see Freeze as somebody that caused them to get more money, either b/c they took it from UM or because other people had to pay more to keep up with UM. The fact that he's looking out for himself just makes him like 99% of the other people involved with recruiting.

[Bothrops]

Yeah this is pretty damn weird.

[OSCAR]

He retweeted a bible verse. You do not have to like the messenger to like the message. I honestly think it's wise as a future pro to be cordial with all coaches and players. You never know who will be a future NFL coach, coordinator, or teammate. Fandom of MSU is the end-all-be-all for us middle aged alumni from an athletics standpoint, but for some of these great young athletes, it is just the beginning. This is a career for him and not a hobby, I see no problem with networking with peers-even rivals.

[Covercorner2]

Fans have much more disdain for rival teams than players. The majority of these guys couldn't care less. Hell a lot of them hang out together. Nothing to see here....

[chef dixon]

Who cares? I'd have a hard time being mean to them too if they treated me so well on a visit.

[msstate7]

Who cares? I'd have a hard time being mean to them too if they treated me so well on a visit.

I dislike the Aj tweet much more than the hugh retweet. Aj called out our coaching staff and dissed his hometown team, yet CJ says good luck or whatever

[GreenheadDawg]

The thing that we forget is that many of the college athletes don't love their university the way we do. It's a means to an end. Gabe jackson's and Fletcher Cox's don't come around everyday. They love MSU and will defend it. Not say Chris doesn't love MSU but he doesn't take it personally when someone shits on it like some of fans and players

[mic]

This will be talked about by the media more than the looming sanctions...

[Tbonewannabe]

People have to realize that AJ was around the players for a while. I am sure they probably just became friends. A lot of them are friends until they step on the field then friends again off it. It is still weird though the way it is phrased.

[lastmajordog]

Sorry but when a "feller" wishes me Happy Valentines Day.....well I thought about Karl Childers.....couldn't help myself!!!

http://imoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/4-Sling-Blade-quotes.jpg

[msstate7]

I'm not a Twitter guy... Did CJ reach out to any of our signees on Twitter or just Aj?

[maroonmania]

The thing that we forget is that many of the college athletes don't love their university the way we do. It's a means to an end. Gabe jackson's and Fletcher Cox's don't come around everyday. They love MSU and will defend it. Not say Chris doesn't love MSU but he doesn't take it personally when someone shits on it like some of fans and players

Plus, just being honest, at least 95% of all recruits are all in on the extra inducements and see nothing wrong with it. No, they don't want to play for a team on probation but the vast majority have no sense of values or ethics to actually follow the rules, even ones that don't exactly come from poverty. That's one of the reasons we aren't "cool" in that sense because our coaches, administration and fans are much more reluctant to go the extra mile breaking rules than the likes of the OM Network and many of the other SEC fanbases. Yes, we are the stick in the mud to a lot of these recruits.

[GreenheadDawg]

Plus, just being honest, at least 95% of all recruits are all in on the extra inducements and see nothing wrong with it. No, they don't want to play for a team on probation but the vast majority have no sense of values or ethics to actually follow the rules, even ones that don't exactly come from poverty. That's one of the reasons we aren't "cool" in that sense because our coaches, administration and fans are much more reluctant to go the extra mile breaking rules than the likes of the OM Network and many of the other SEC fanbases. Yes, we are the stick in the mud to a lot of these recruits.

Very true. We just aren't very flashy and "swag"

[FISHDAWG]

nope - the AJ quote was nothing more than in your face to state fans that have supported him

[MSUDawg99]

Hey guys...I'm not positive, but I don't think this is Chris Jones real twitter. I remember when this acct (if I'm thinking correctly) was started last year & it quickly came out that that wasn't him.

[Johnson85]

Plus, just being honest, at least 95% of all recruits are all in on the extra inducements and see nothing wrong with it. No, they don't want to play for a team on probation but the vast majority have no sense of values or ethics to actually follow the rules, even ones that don't exactly come from poverty. That's one of the reasons we aren't "cool" in that sense because our coaches, administration and fans are much more reluctant to go the extra mile breaking rules than the likes of the OM Network and many of the other SEC fanbases. Yes, we are the stick in the mud to a lot of these recruits.

I think you have this opposite. The vast majority have a sense of values, and therefore they recognize that there aren't many moral implications to following or not following rules in a system that allows coaches to get paid $5M per year but limits them to ~$50k per year.

[maroonmania]

I think you have this opposite. The vast majority have a sense of values, and therefore they recognize that there aren't many moral implications to following or not following rules in a system that allows coaches to get paid $5M per year but limits them to ~$50k per year.

Well the world doesn't work that way and that's just a red herring argument. People are sent to jail everyday for breaking laws they don't like or agree with. Coaches have no need to maintain eligibility in an amateur sport and can be paid whatever and I doubt any of them were making $5M during their college years either. I do wish the NFL ran a minor league system for guys that have no interest in being a student and want nothing more than a vehicle to get to the NFL. But I guess that will never happen when college is providing them a minor league for free.

[Reason2succeed]

I think you have this opposite. The vast majority have a sense of values, and therefore they recognize that there aren't many moral implications to following or not following rules in a system that allows coaches to get paid $5M per year but limits them to ~$50k per year.


I for one agree with you. Players put their body in harms way for a "chance" to make some money. Meanwhile coaches makes millions and boosters are the ones who have a betting interest in outcomes.

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

[msstate7]

I for one agree with you. Players put their body in harms way for a "chance" to make some money. Meanwhile coaches makes millions and boosters are the ones who have a betting interest in outcomes.

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

Wow... You're comparing a sport that makes many of these kids gods and let's them get an education in the process to slavery? Might be a stretch there...

[maroonmania]

Wow... You're comparing a sport that makes many of these kids gods and let's them get an education in the process to slavery? Might be a stretch there...

And the best ones are essentially in a 3 year training program leading straight to making millions.

[HaggardDawg]

I for one agree with you. Players put their body in harms way for a "chance" to make some money. Meanwhile coaches makes millions and boosters are the ones who have a betting interest in outcomes.

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

Except for the whole forcing them against their will thing. Football is a choice. College is a choice. We go to college to gain marketable skills to hopefully receive a return on our investment by getting a good job. Collegiate athletes by choice play a sport and other than baseball receive a free education with the opportunity to gain marketable skills in sport AND the real world. Their investment, by choice, is the hard work of college football. That being said, I'm all for raising stipends and making it easier for families to attend games.

[Really Clark?]

I for one agree with you. Players put their body in harms way for a "chance" to make some money. Meanwhile coaches makes millions and boosters are the ones who have a betting interest in outcomes.

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

Disagree. The athlete has the choice to NOT accept a scholarship. If they do, they agree to accept the rules as well that accompanies the scholarship.

And the coaches salary argument doesn't fall in line with life or the real world. Undergraduates should be paid the same as the head of a department just because the student is the best in that field? That is a ridiculous analogy.

[mstatefan91]

I had damn near a 4.0 as an undergraduate. Someone should have been paying me (oh wait... I had a scholarship... hmm)

[PendingTransaction]

I for one agree with you. Players put their body in harms way for a "chance" to make some money. Meanwhile coaches makes millions and boosters are the ones who have a betting interest in outcomes.

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

You make some valid points. But ponder this...college football is the quintessential model of capitalism. When one man can make more than all of his laborers combined... I love this system. 17 Barney!

[Maroonthirteen]

He made the right decision to leave. Good for him.

[Political Hack]

I dislike the Aj tweet much more than the hugh retweet. Aj called out our coaching staff and dissed his hometown team, yet CJ says good luck or whatever

I tend to agree with this but Chris is just being the bigger man. Think of it this way: would you rather have the little prick calling people out on Twitter or the guy that stays above the fray, wishes people well, and moves along?

[Political Hack]

I for one agree with you. Players put their body in harms way for a "chance" to make some money. Meanwhile coaches makes millions and boosters are the ones who have a betting interest in outcomes.

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

That's an outstanding argument. If the scholly was the prize, then the Ivy League would be the SEC. They have to go into some sort of profit sharing arrangements for kids that are playing sports that produce large revenues/profits. If you maintain your scholarship and graduate, you get X% of the profit earned over the last 4-5 years. Put a floor on it. Put a ceiling on it. And play ball.

[Really Clark?]

That's an outstanding argument. If the scholly was the prize, then the Ivy League would be the SEC. They have to go into some sort of profit sharing arrangements for kids that are playing sports that produce large revenues/profits. If you maintain your scholarship and graduate, you get X% of the profit earned over the last 4-5 years. Put a floor on it. Put a ceiling on it. And play ball.

The thing is, most schools are not making a profit with football or athletic departments. The avg athlete in D1 (not football) costs the university about $26,000 per year if I remember correctly. The avg D1 football player costs the university about $75,000 per year. If what was reported last fall is correct, about 100 D1 football programs are losing money. And even ones who are making profits, some of those are fairly small. But they already "make" triple what other student athletes do. And the Power 5 schools are granted the option to have a larger stipend which makes the have vs have not's division grow even more.

[Dawgbite]

So if you are going to share the football profits with the players, are you also going to garnish the wages of the soccer players for all the lost revenue incurred by the university during their playing time. I really dont see how you can have one without the other. What if we sold tickets to a Golf team intoduction on a fall saturday and a SEC football game just happened to break out? Pandora's Box!

[Maroonthirteen]

I tend to agree with this but Chris is just being the bigger man. Think of it this way: would you rather have the little prick calling people out on Twitter or the guy that stays above the fray, wishes people well, and moves along?

Looks to me like he is getting in the middle of drama at the risk of alienating his own fans. Which to me.... The fact he reweets Freeze and tweets at OM signees (and not States signees) says to me he couldnt care less about his fans.

[Johnson85]

Disagree. The athlete has the choice to NOT accept a scholarship. If they do, they agree to accept the rules as well that accompanies the scholarship.

And they also have the choice to accept the scholarship and also accept black market compensation for their work. If there is no moral implication to preventing them from negotiating over their compensation, there wouldn't seem to be any moral implication to them not accepting the compensation structure imposed by the NCAA.


And the coaches salary argument doesn't fall in line with life or the real world.

Right, because coaches in the NFL are paid roughly 67 times the annual salary of the start players. Clearly the coaches' salaries are just a reflection of the market and not the fact that the NCAA tries to prevent players from being given anything beyond a scholarship and stipend.


Undergraduates should be paid the same as the head of a department just because the student is the best in that field? That is a ridiculous analogy.

If being the best student in the field created the same amount of value for the university that the head of the department did, then yes. But you're right, your analogy was ridiculous.

[Johnson85]

So if you are going to share the football profits with the players, are you also going to garnish the wages of the soccer players for all the lost revenue incurred by the university during their playing time. I really dont see how you can have one without the other. What if we sold tickets to a Golf team intoduction on a fall saturday and a SEC football game just happened to break out? Pandora's Box!

Allowing athletes that earn the university money to share in the value they create doesn't mean universities can't expend money on activities that enrich campus life. The university provides money to social clubs, builds buildings that are for student enrichment, has non-revenue sports, etc. Now should a university be providing full scholarships to players in non-revenue sports? I think there's a decent argument that if private donors aren't willing to fund it, the school shouldn't give full scholarships. It definitely seems crazy for a school to end up $1M a year in the red on just one sport, which I am guessing happens in some places with football although I don't know.

[MSUDawg99]

Looks to me like he is getting in the middle of drama at the risk of alienating his own fans. Which to me.... The fact he reweets Freeze and tweets at OM signees (and not States signees) says to me he couldnt care less about his fans.

Folks getting all up in arms over a fake Chris Jones acct. Again, I don't think this is his real twitter acct. I saw last year where this acct came out & quickly dismissed as a fake one.

[Really Clark?]

And they also have the choice to accept the scholarship and also accept black market compensation for their work. If there is no moral implication to preventing them from negotiating over their compensation, there wouldn't seem to be any moral implication to them not accepting the compensation structure imposed by the NCAA.



Right, because coaches in the NFL are paid roughly 67 times the annual salary of the start players. Clearly the coaches' salaries are just a reflection of the market and not the fact that the NCAA tries to prevent players from being given anything beyond a scholarship and stipend.



If being the best student in the field created the same amount of value for the university that the head of the department did, then yes. But you're right, your analogy was ridiculous.

Black market compensation? This is a college scholarship. Not a minor league football program. The education that increases their earning potential 10 fold is the compensation that they are entitled to. Not to mention they are being gifted $75,000 per year in benefits that no other student can get. If you want fair, do the other athletes not work as hard as the football players? Do they not have as much if not more missed time during the year?

Not to mention the majority of the football programs are NOT making a profit. But yet we sit here and yell for our athletic department to spend more on assistants, add staff, HC salary is just the cost of doing business in the SEC. So decide which side of the fence y'all want to be on because you can't be on both. And when you compare to the acedemic endowments received, football does not keep the university in the black. In most cases, the football budgets have about come to a breaking point and full saturation. Teams are choosing to not go to bowl games so they won't take a loss for their budget. So the value that people keep throwing out there is a fallacy in actual profit for a football program. But let's keep trying to push an agenda that would eventually destroy 90% of college football, including schools in the Power 5 conferences. We will have the elite 20 or so programs and that's it.

Now if you want to look at compensation from the NCAA and programming outside of the university, ok. I can see that to a degree. But they have a choice to be just a regular student for many of the athletes and not play the sport. It's a red herring argument. And I think coaching salaries are out line as well. But that doesn't have a bearing on the athlete and what their scholarship and degree is worth.

[HancockCountyDog]

Fans have much more disdain for rival teams than players. The majority of these guys couldn't care less. Hell a lot of them hang out together. Nothing to see here....

I know of several players that play for the bears and USM that still talk to several of our coaches, and several talked to Coach Hughes throughout his tenure.

The majority of players don't hate each rival school. 80% of the time the kids played with these guys on 7 on 7 teams, hung out at all star games, and were friends.

Hell, we have had players on our team tweet out how much they love partying in Oxford, while on the damn team.

It is not worth getting worked up over at all.

[maroonmania]

So if you are going to share the football profits with the players, are you also going to garnish the wages of the soccer players for all the lost revenue incurred by the university during their playing time. I really dont see how you can have one without the other. What if we sold tickets to a Golf team intoduction on a fall saturday and a SEC football game just happened to break out? Pandora's Box!

Yep, this whole thing opens a very large can of worms. Football revenue is used to subsidize all of the sports that give scholarships that LOSE money. If this is the route we are going then we may end up having to shut down all sports that don't create their own revenue streams. Basically, at most schools, you would have men's football and men's basketball and that's it.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

If a free education was the only payment that mattered in collegiate sports then Harvard and Yale would be national champions in every sport. It's a system that makes millions because it doesn't pay the labor. Sounds vaguely familiar to another bygone institution.

The priorities at Ivy League schools is education and sports is a privilege of attending the university. Priorities at sports driven universities are different.

[JoseBrown]

Yep, this whole thing opens a very large can of worms. Football revenue is used to subsidize all of the sports that give scholarships that LOSE money. If this is the route we are going then we may end up having to shut down all sports that don't create their own revenue streams. Basically, at most schools, you would have men's football and men's basketball and that's it.

Title IX won't allow it. Don't you have to give as many women schollies as men? And the football team with so many schollies means lots of women sports would have to remain.

[HancockCountyDog]

He made the right decision to leave. Good for him.

We wonder why we can't have nice things.

[maroonmania]

Title IX won't allow it. Don't you have to give as many women schollies as men? And the football team with so many schollies means lots of women sports would have to remain.

Yes, the courts may force enough women's sports to at least compensate the schollies for men's football and basketball but there could be a good chance of kissing a sport like men's college baseball goodbye. What people have to realize is that at some point colleges may decide its not worth keeping the sports going that don't make money. I'm not sure the college athletes that sued EA Sports for money intended to kill the college video games but that's what they did.

As I've stated the best solution to a LOT of things would be if all major sports ran their own minor league systems like baseball does. Then the guys playing college sports would actually be interested in a college education.

[whosyourdawgy]

I for one am glad Chris Jones decided to become a Bulldog and play 3 solid years for is and I wish him nothing but success and riches. So freaking what he tweeted AJ Brown. Who gives a ****? AJ has been around our guys forever and probably had more than just Chris wish him well. And he retweeted Freeze. Again, who gives a ****? He was a Bulldog and always will be a Bulldog. All you ****ers trying to make mountains out of mole hills need to take a Xanax and chill. For goodness sakes there are some folks wound too damn tight in this world

[Political Hack]

If you play a sport that doesn't make the university money, you don't get paid.

Simple fair market economy ideas might seem like insanity, but it tends to work in most scenarios.

[Really Clark?]

If you play a sport that doesn't make the university money, you don't get paid.

Simple fair market economy ideas might seem like insanity, but it tends to work in most scenarios.

Ok. So what about the 85% of football programs that lose money? Do we want to allow the elites to widen the gap even more? They can pay the athlete because they turned a profit. Do you make it so they have to subsidize the other 100 D1 football programs?

Just so everybody knows, my questions and being against the idea that $75,000 per year is not enough compensation to an athlete who chooses to accept the scholarship, we are one of the few who actually turn a profit in football. So it could help us at this point in time. But the overall health of the sport for the vast majority of schools would put many, including half of Power 5 schools, out of competitive football.

[Johnson85]

Black market compensation? This is a college scholarship. Not a minor league football program. The education that increases their earning potential 10 fold is the compensation that they are entitled to. Not to mention they are being gifted $75,000 per year in benefits that no other student can get. Didn't realize you were the compensation god that gets to determine what compensation people are entitled to. And scholarship athletes at profit producing programs aren't being gifted anything.


If you want fair, do the other athletes not work as hard as the football players? Do they not have as much if not more missed time during the year? What kind of sissy are you. You don't get paid for working hard, you get paid for creating value.


Not to mention the majority of the football programs are NOT making a profit. This is irrelevant for SEC schools.


But yet we sit here and yell for our athletic department to spend more on assistants, add staff, HC salary is just the cost of doing business in the SEC. So decide which side of the fence y'all want to be on because you can't be on both. And when you compare to the acedemic endowments received, football does not keep the university in the black. No, football keeps the athletic program in the black and carries pretty much every sport other than men's basketball, and maybe baseball and women's basketball.


In most cases, the football budgets have about come to a breaking point and full saturation. Teams are choosing to not go to bowl games so they won't take a loss for their budget. So the value that people keep throwing out there is a fallacy in actual profit for a football program. But let's keep trying to push an agenda that would eventually destroy 90% of college football, including schools in the Power 5 conferences. We will have the elite 20 or so programs and that's it. We spend almost no time on this board talking about "most cases", unless we are randomly discussing USM or are talking about an OOC opponent in football. The arms race probably won't destroy 90% of college football. It very likely will end up drawing a sharp line of distinction between money making and money losing programs. But it seems pretty clear that there is enough of a market for the power five teams to make a profit, even while paying coaches multimillion dollar salaries.

[Johnson85]

Ok. So what about the 85% of football programs that lose money? Do we want to allow the elites to widen the gap even more? They can pay the athlete because they turned a profit. Do you make it so they have to subsidize the other 100 D1 football programs?

Just so everybody knows, my questions and being against the idea that $75,000 per year is not enough compensation to an athlete who chooses to accept the scholarship, we are one of the few who actually turn a profit in football. So it could help us at this point in time. But the overall health of the sport for the vast majority of schools would put many, including half of Power 5 schools, out of competitive football.

What would be wrong with that? I enjoy getting to watch college football on TV, but if it wasn't for tv access, I'd actually prefer for football to go back to being amateur athletics. If your football program doesn't make money, you probably shouldn't be spending $1M on a coaching staff, much less an individual coach.

[maroonmania]

If you play a sport that doesn't make the university money, you don't get paid.

Simple fair market economy ideas might seem like insanity, but it tends to work in most scenarios.

Yea, but college sports is socialism not a market economy. In a market economy, businesses that don't make money are eliminated. Is that what we want to do with all sports that don't make money? Because right now the bulk of college sports are all being carried by 1 or 2 sports that make money (pure socialism which includes subsidizing ALL women's sports). If that money is used up to pay "labor" so to speak, then the other sports will cease to exist.

[Really Clark?]

Didn't realize you were the compensation god that gets to determine what compensation people are entitled to. And scholarship athletes at profit producing programs aren't being gifted anything.

What kind of sissy are you. You don't get paid for working hard, you get paid for creating value.

This is irrelevant for SEC schools.

No, football keeps the athletic program in the black and carries pretty much every sport other than men's basketball, and maybe baseball and women's basketball.

We spend almost no time on this board talking about "most cases", unless we are randomly discussing USM or are talking about an OOC opponent in football. The arms race probably won't destroy 90% of college football. It very likely will end up drawing a sharp line of distinction between money making and money losing programs. But it seems pretty clear that there is enough of a market for the power five teams to make a profit, even while paying coaches multimillion dollar salaries.

First off, debate the topic is fine, you want to start name calling we can take it out of the thread. And no not all of the SEC schools are turning a profit. And more schools each year in the Power 5 conferences are losing money. If I remember correctly the ACC didn't have a school that made money in football in 2014. The numbers for TV revenue is down. We have hit a saturation point that the vast majority of schools, including Power 5 schools, that the escalating costs will cut into the profit margins even more.

I was given you the numbers of what football players are being compensated, on avg in D1 football. Where did you get I was being the compensation God? That's what they get now on avg.

Certain small percentage of football programs are keeping the other sports in the black. The remaining universities are having to subsidize the athletic departments from the general funds.

Now is there a major problem with athletic department expenditures? Yes. Salaries are ridiculous. Cutting the budgets is the answer not creating a much higher expense for the football program. How much do you think the athletes should be compensated? What's the number you think is appropriate?

[Really Clark?]

What would be wrong with that? I enjoy getting to watch college football on TV, but if it wasn't for tv access, I'd actually prefer for football to go back to being amateur athletics. If your football program doesn't make money, you probably shouldn't be spending $1M on a coaching staff, much less an individual coach.

I guess that's where people have to decide what they want. The problem is the thought that as long it's some other school and not mine is where the bulk will fall. No doubt it's an emotional and very complex issue.

[RougeDawg]

What's this about? Strange thread. It's also strange that CJ follows Freezus, retweets Freezus and talks to him on the phone still.

What's even more strange is that a person who has donned the maroon and white could take down Bucky and the OM machine by simply complying, but refuses to roll on the beaver. That's all that needs to be said about the topic.

[Johnson85]

First off, debate the topic is fine, you want to start name calling we can take it out of the thread. The sissy reference was tongue in cheek although I guess the tone wasn't clear there.


And no not all of the SEC schools are turning a profit. If the SEC schools aren't turning a profit on football, it's because they're idiots. You'll probably never get a straight number because I'm not sure the SEC network money is allocated per sport, but all of them get enough revenue that there is profit to be made.


And more schools each year in the Power 5 conferences are losing money. If I remember correctly the ACC didn't have a school that made money in football in 2014. The numbers for TV revenue is down. We have hit a saturation point that the vast majority of schools, including Power 5 schools, that the escalating costs will cut into the profit margins even more. The TV revenue may be at a peak, but the reason schools are losing money is that the tournament nature of major college football results in costs escalating quickly.


I was given you the numbers of what football players are being compensated, on avg in D1 football. Where did you get I was being the compensation God? That's what they get now on avg. You said the education is the compensation that they are "entitled to", which I took in context as being all they are entitled to.


Certain small percentage of football programs are keeping the other sports in the black. The remaining universities are having to subsidize the athletic departments from the general funds. Which I think is absurd. Money being spent on college sports that don't pay for themselves should look like intramural and club sport budgets, not multimillion dollar operations.


Now is there a major problem with athletic department expenditures? Yes. Salaries are ridiculous. Cutting the budgets is the answer not creating a much higher expense for the football program.

Allowing athletes to be paid wouldn't necessarily result in higher expenses. You'd see money that is currently flowing into coaches salaries and facilities go to players. There'd probably be some upward pressure initially at those places that have already committed to large debt service, but mostly it would just be money getting shifted around. The insane athletic department expenditures are driven by the fact that college football is sort of a tournament set up. There's a lot of money to be made by the top programs, so a lot of programs spend a crap ton of money trying to get to the top of the pile, but there can only be so many winners so the amount lost by the losers will exceed what is won by the few winners.


How much do you think the athletes should be compensated? What's the number you think is appropriate? How the hell should I know. What kind of arrogant ass would claim that they can come up with a number that college athletes should be paid when the normal pricing mechanisms are prevented from working.

The only thing that is clear is that good players can clearly earn more than the values of the legal benefits they receive.

[Really Clark?]

The sissy reference was tongue in cheek although I guess the tone wasn't clear there.

If the SEC schools aren't turning a profit on football, it's because they're idiots. You'll probably never get a straight number because I'm not sure the SEC network money is allocated per sport, but all of them get enough revenue that there is profit to be made.

The TV revenue may be at a peak, but the reason schools are losing money is that the tournament nature of major college football results in costs escalating quickly.

You said the education is the compensation that they are "entitled to", which I took in context as being all they are entitled to.

Which I think is absurd. Money being spent on college sports that don't pay for themselves should look like intramural and club sport budgets, not multimillion dollar operations.



Allowing athletes to be paid wouldn't necessarily result in higher expenses. You'd see money that is currently flowing into coaches salaries and facilities go to players. There'd probably be some upward pressure initially at those places that have already committed to large debt service, but mostly it would just be money getting shifted around. The insane athletic department expenditures are driven by the fact that college football is sort of a tournament set up. There's a lot of money to be made by the top programs, so a lot of programs spend a crap ton of money trying to get to the top of the pile, but there can only be so many winners so the amount lost by the losers will exceed what is won by the few winners.

How the hell should I know. What kind of arrogant ass would claim that they can come up with a number that college athletes should be paid when the normal pricing mechanisms are prevented from working.

The only thing that is clear is that good players can clearly earn more than the values of the legal benefits they receive.

And to take this further, the Federal courts ruled today that athletes are not entitled to make a wage even on par with work study programs. Because they are not employees of the university and are not subject to wage and hour practices. If they can't get past that hurdle then payment because football makes money won't fly either. And again if they football players are compensated on avg of $75,000 per year, that is a significant amount that no other student athlete much less regular students receive.

As far as State while the amount is much smaller than many want, we are already one of the highest per player stipend in the country. So the Power 5 do recognize the money being generated and are trying to offset it a small degree.

I think Title IX makes a some of your arguments moot. You will never get the ones in charge, school presidents and legislature, to agree to club level expenditures for low or no revenue producing sports. Until that's removed, you have to take that argument off the table.

If you give every football player an additional $25,000 per year then it increases the budget by $2,125,000 per year. Too many schools that is not a small amount and just increased their deficit. So a small Power 5 school you just created either a football staff salary problem or athletic department budget problem. The overall numbers are absurd but not every school have those kind of budgets. Again, creating a larger gap between the elites and rest. How do you regulated the revenue differences between schools? A player at an elite school can make triple what a player can here? Complex issue

[Johnson85]

And to take this further, the Federal courts ruled today that athletes are not entitled to make a wage even on par with work study programs. Because they are not employees of the university and are not subject to wage and hour practices. If they can't get past that hurdle then payment because football makes money won't fly either.
I have never intended to imply (and don't think I have) that the players have a viable legal claim.



And again if they football players are compensated on avg of $75,000 per year, that is a significant amount that no other student athlete much less regular students receive. I don't see how that's relevant. It doesn't seem too much better than the arguments that professional athletes are overpaid because they make multiples of what teachers make, although it is better.




As far as State while the amount is much smaller than many want, we are already one of the highest per player stipend in the country. So the Power 5 do recognize the money being generated and are trying to offset it a small degree.

I think Title IX makes a some of your arguments moot. You will never get the ones in charge, school presidents and legislature, to agree to club level expenditures for low or no revenue producing sports. Until that's removed, you have to take that argument off the table.

Title IX would be a problem. I wasn't trying to lay out a feasible approach. Kind of wandered off into the weeds, but my entire initial point was that it's not immoral for athletes to to take under the table benefits. If there are any moral implications of the current NCAA football set-up, they cut against the current system and in favor of paying the players.

You're right that all of the talk of implications from paying athletes is more or less fantasy land as of now. I think a lot of the barriers are ready to be broken down, but since Title IX would be pretty much insurmountable and I don't think there's any political will to fix it, I think that will prevent the NCAA from taking more than very small baby steps (such as increasing the stipend available to power 5 schools) to a more sensible system.

[Maroonthirteen]

What's even more strange is that a person who has donned the maroon and white could take down Bucky and the OM machine by simply complying, but refuses to roll on the beaver. That's all that needs to be said about the topic.

Anyone that has played for State is a favorite player of mine but if I had to rank them....I'll start at the bottom and work my way up;

Chris Jones
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