Renfroe is being promoted

[SignalToNoise]

From the Mississippi State Baseball Facebook ...


Hunter Renfroe is prepared to be promoted on Sat. to the Ft. Wayne TinCaps of the Midwest League, the same league Chad Girodo and Kendall Graveman play in (Lansing Lugnuts).

I'm guessing this is a good thing. I don't know what "league" this is, though. Hoping one of you guys that understand the system can explain to us what this means.

[Coach34]

Absolutely a good thing. He hit .300 in that league he was in- anything lower would have been disappointing. He is still going to a level that is probably not on par with SEC weekend pitching- but it is a step up.

He was real erratic at his first stop- going on tears and then droughts...he has to work hard to find some consistency at the plate

[smootness]

Absolutely a good thing. He hit .300 in that league he was in- anything lower would have been disappointing. He is still going to a level that is probably not on par with SEC weekend pitching- but it is a step up.

He was real erratic at his first stop- going on tears and then droughts...he has to work hard to find some consistency at the plate

The heck? Geez, he wasn't 'real erratic'. He plays baseball, there are always ups and downs. Here are his game-by-game H/AB totals:

2/4
2/3
3/5
0/4
1/4
2/4
0/4
0/4
1/5
2/5
0/4
1/4
3/4
2/5
1/3
2/4
3/5
1/4
0/4
0/3
0/4
0/5
3/5
2/4

If you think that's 'real erratic', then you don't know baseball much. Yes, he had a bad 4-game stretch near the end of his time there. It happens. Otherwise, he was darn good, and he immediately got himself out of that stretch. Give me any player anywhere who goes a full month without playing a few games in a row where he doesn't kill it.

[Coach34]

The heck? Geez, he wasn't 'real erratic'. He plays baseball, there are always ups and downs. Here are his game-by-game H/AB totals:

2/4
2/3
3/5
0/4
1/4
2/4
0/4
0/4
1/5
2/5
0/4
1/4
3/4
2/5
1/3
2/4
3/5
1/4
0/4
0/3
0/4
0/5
3/5
2/4

If you think that's 'real erratic', then you don't know baseball much. Yes, he had a bad 4-game stretch near the end of his time there. It happens. Otherwise, he was darn good, and he immediately got himself out of that stretch. Give me any player anywhere who goes a full month without playing a few games in a row where he doesn't kill it.


he struck out 25 times in 104 AB's- that is very erratic considering he played in 24 games....He had 11 multi-hit games out of 24- but still only hit .310... .310 is very good, no doubt- but that many multi-hit games in that short of a span usually brings a higher average with it.

He had a 3/20 drought in games 4-8....and had a 1/20 drought in games 18-22....

As I said- he needs to cut down on the droughts and be more consistent as he moves up

He is going to have to cut down on the strikeouts

[smootness]

The strikeouts don't really matter that much. Less than 25% is not atrocious, and the # of K's certainly doesn't make one 'erratic'.

To me, the fact that he had multi-hit games almost half the time and hit .310 simply means that he was new to pro baseball and saw some pitchers he struggled with and others he saw really well. That doesn't make you 'real erratic,' it makes you a guy just starting out in pro baseball.

Sure, you can pick out a few games here and there...as you can do with any hitter. Again, taking a 3-4 game sample here and there tells me nothing. It certainly doesn't qualify as a 'drought'.

Let's take Chris Johnson, who is leading the NL in hitting. I'll look at one month in particular, June. He hit .300 that month with an ops of .824. Well, if you take games 3-5 that month, he had a 1/10 'drought'. If you take games 3-9, he had a 3-24 'drought'. He had 8 games that month without a hit, what a real erratic POS.

[Todd4State]

He is going to the Midwest League, which is A ball. The "next" step up is high A ball- which for San Diego is the California League, and then after that AA, AAA, etc.

[Coach34]

The strikeouts don't really matter that much. Less than 25% is not atrocious, and the # of K's certainly doesn't make one 'erratic'.

To me, the fact that he had multi-hit games almost half the time and hit .310 simply means that he was new to pro baseball and saw some pitchers he struggled with and others he saw really well. That doesn't make you 'real erratic,' it makes you a guy just starting out in pro baseball.

Sure, you can pick out a few games here and there...as you can do with any hitter. Again, taking a 3-4 game sample here and there tells me nothing. It certainly doesn't qualify as a 'drought'.

Let's take Chris Johnson, who is leading the NL in hitting. I'll look at one month in particular, June. He hit .300 that month with an ops of .824. Well, if you take games 3-5 that month, he had a 1/10 'drought'. If you take games 3-9, he had a 3-24 'drought'. He had 8 games that month without a hit, what a real erratic POS.

Baseball is all about being as consistent as possible. That's the bottom line. I hope Hunter gets more of it.

It's funny how people get so upset though on certain people, but not others. If this thread was about Derrick Armstrong or Matthew Britton, you wouldn't find anybody wanting to defend them so vehemently

[smootness]

It's funny how people get so upset though on certain people, but not others. If this thread was about Derrick Armstrong or Matthew Britton, you wouldn't find anybody wanting to defend them so vehemently

Do you think we're all this dumb?

Yeah, if you said 'Matthew Britton and Derrick Armstrong weren't very good last year' or 'Matthew Britton and Derrick Armstrong have to change the way they approach the game to have success', the reason no one would defend them is because you would be accurate.

Hunter Renfroe put up a line of .345/.431/.620 last year, was drafted 13th overall in the MLB draft, hit over .300 with an OPS of .850 in his pro baseball debut, and has already been promoted by the team who drafted him.
Matthew Britton up up a line of .250/.286/.300 last year.
Derrick Armstrong put up a line of .266/.356/.281 last year.

So you would be right if you said similar things about Britton and Armstrong. The fact that you're trying to equate them with Hunter Renfroe either means you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, or you're just really, really bad at trying to make a point.

[I seen it dawg]

It's pretty common knowledge that Hunter, while supremely gifted, is still raw by pro baseball standards and has to work on some things to become the player we hope he becomes. He has to become much more consistent as he gets higher up because that's the thing that will keep him from making it big time and I would imagine he and the Padres would say the same thing. There are a ton of guys with talent that don't make it because they can't put it together over the course of a full season. He had a good low A against competition that was probably not quite as good as what he played this year. Let's hope he can learn how to be consistent night in and night out at these lower levels - that's where the big jumps come in for high draft picks. It's nothing different than any young player has to learn. Get your ass out of a bunch smoot, you act like somebody was calling Hunter a pedophile or something.

[Coach34]

Do you think we're all this dumb?

So you would be right if you said similar things about Britton and Armstrong. The fact that you're trying to equate them with Hunter Renfroe either means you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, or you're just really, really bad at trying to make a point.

I'm not calling anybody dumb- but as I Seen It said- you need to get your panties out of a wad about Renfroe....he's talented, but raw and needs alot of work at the plate. I hope he becomes a MLB All-Star, I just dont think he will. It doesnt make me hate him, it just means I have an opinion. He batted .260 the last 2 months of the season in college and less than .200 in the CWS. I think as he climbs he will get exposed at the plate and the K's will continue to mount. We'll see.

It's just funny to me how people get so revved up about certain players. Years ago I said we wouldnt miss Dixon and would be fine on offense without him and fans lost their mind over that. I also said Dixon would never do anything in the NFL- so far nobody has called me out on that one. Didnt mean I hated Dixon- just was what I saw when I watched him play.

[Will James]

Renfroe hasn't played enough to have streaks or slumps. Just because its a small sample doesn't mean you imply slumps into that sample size.

As I've said. Take NOTHING away until July next year. And really it's what he does in a full year of AA that will tell what he's made of

[Coach34]

. And really it's what he does in a full year of AA that will tell what he's made of

I agree with that for the most part. His time in AA will indeed tell alot

[Todd4State]

One thing about Hunter that I don't think I have ever seen or heard of from another player:

Goes to the Cal Ripken League and has his number retired and is hailed as a hero.

Has a great season at MSU despite a late season slump and is a very well liked player.

Now his rookie ball team is putting out tweets about the end of the Hunter Renfroe era.


There's a very good pattern there. I think he makes it to MLB in about 2-3 years and becomes a starting outfielder with the potential to be an All-Star.

[Coach34]

his potential is there and by all accounts is a great guy- no denying that

[KennyPowers2]

The heck? Geez, he wasn't 'real erratic'. He plays baseball, there are always ups and downs. Here are his game-by-game H/AB totals:

2/4
2/3
3/5
0/4
1/4
2/4
0/4
0/4
1/5
2/5
0/4
1/4
3/4
2/5
1/3
2/4
3/5
1/4
0/4
0/3
0/4
0/5
3/5
2/4

If you think that's 'real erratic', then you don't know baseball much. Yes, he had a bad 4-game stretch near the end of his time there. It happens. Otherwise, he was darn good, and he immediately got himself out of that stretch. Give me any player anywhere who goes a full month without playing a few games in a row where he doesn't kill it.

I think what C34 was meaning to say was he would get hot and then cold and then hot and then cold. Don't be so argumentative especially when your own stats show that C34 was, for the most part, right. Renfroe is going to be fine, he is still young.

[MsStateBaseball]

TinCaps are in playoffs so he gets more reps. Progression.

[BoomBoom]

Baseball is all about being as consistent as possible. That's the bottom line. I hope Hunter gets more of it.

It's funny how people get so upset though on certain people, but not others. If this thread was about Derrick Armstrong or Matthew Britton, you wouldn't find anybody wanting to defend them so vehemently

i have never heard that said about baseball. and that hit distribution is entirely normal, there's nothing streaky in there at all.

[Will James]

i have never heard that said about baseball. and that hit distribution is entirely normal, there's nothing streaky in there at all.

I agree 100%

[Coach34]

I agree 100%

Who the **** has never heard about being consistent in baseball? Seriously?

Do ya not think that's pretty ****ing important in a muscle memory sport?

[Will James]

Who the **** has never heard about being consistent in baseball? Seriously?

Do ya not think that's pretty ****ing important in a muscle memory sport?

As a hitter it's really not something you can control. You try to be successful in every plate appearance and your production follows. Consistency comes in preparation, drills, etc. Not in results. How many of those hitless games were the result of a hard hit line out to an IF or a great diving catch by an OF. Averages fluctuate ALL THE TIME for EVERY hitter. Nobody sits at .300 all year long. I showed that Adam Frazier went through a worse slump than Renfroe just this past season dealing with short term "slumps" and long term slumps. It's natural. That's baseball.

[smootness]

I think what C34 was meaning to say was he would get hot and then cold and then hot and then cold. Don't be so argumentative especially when your own stats show that C34 was, for the most part, right. Renfroe is going to be fine, he is still young.

If my tone comes across as argumentative, it's probably because I've seen Coach spew this stuff elsewhere and have an obvious personal vendetta against Renfroe. I don't think the guy is a god, I just think it's strange a State fan would try to overly underrate what the kid has done everywhere. He's the definition of a guy who would rather be able to come back here in 2 years and say 'I was right, Renfroe can't hack it' than 'I was wrong, he's awesome'.

See above on Dixon. Who thought Dixon would tear up the league? But I guess Coach is Nostradamus.

I know he was saying he was hot and cold. My point is, he wasn't. 2-3 games is not a streak either way in baseball. Using a 20 AB sample where a guy hit .150 as proof he is 'real erratic' is absurd.

[hacker]

If my tone comes across as argumentative, it's probably because I've seen Coach spew this stuff elsewhere and have an obvious personal vendetta against Renfroe. I don't think the guy is a god, I just think it's strange a State fan would try to overly underrate what the kid has done everywhere. He's the definition of a guy who would rather be able to come back here in 2 years and say 'I was right, Renfroe can't hack it' than 'I was wrong, he's awesome'.

See above on Dixon. Who thought Dixon would tear up the league? But I guess Coach is Nostradamus.

I know he was saying he was hot and cold. My point is, he wasn't. 2-3 games is not a streak either way in baseball. Using a 20 AB sample where a guy hit .150 as proof he is 'real erratic' is absurd.

I have nothing to say to this, but welcome smoot. You were one of my favorite posters on SPS.

[smootness]

I have nothing to say to this, but welcome smoot. You were one of my favorite posters on SPS.

Thanks!

[engie]

Renfroe was cut from Hillcrest in the 9th grade. Let that sink in. (Note: This was well after the end of the Paul Wyczawski era -- his player development program and ideals were practically completely gone from that program by this point. Don't want that legacy being associated with what came after him.)

Kid didn't play competitive baseball growing up prior to that beyond youth leagues and allstar teams. Not on a select/well-coached level. He didn't get much coaching and didn't get challenged at Copiah Academy. In reality, he's been playing "competitive well-coached baseball" for 3 years now. He came further in 3 years at MSU than any player I ever remember -- and still has a ton of room to improve and grow.

I don't see any purpose in trying to define his ceiling right now. He's still learning to play the game. Is he a big league hitter right now? No. But can he be? Why speak on it one way or another until we see where he is at this point next year? LITERALLY this time last year, he was made look foolish by your average college curve ball. My how that changed in a short period of time...

And Renfroe did slump at the end of the season(I can't even begin to think about the mental pressure that was on him) -- but that's not an indictment of "him not being able to hit good pitching". He hit elite staffs early in the season just fine against Arky, LSU, Kentucky, etc...

[Coach34]

If my tone comes across as argumentative, it's probably because I've seen Coach spew this stuff elsewhere and have an obvious personal vendetta against Renfroe.
.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXmAPgpeYqI

[MsStateBaseball]

Renfroe will be in San Diego soon. His tools speak for themselves. He will get even better teaching during winter and spring. Maybe he'll play in a winter league to get more reps. He will be a major leaguer.

[I seen it dawg]

As a hitter it's really not something you can control. You try to be successful in every plate appearance and your production follows. Consistency comes in preparation, drills, etc. Not in results. How many of those hitless games were the result of a hard hit line out to an IF or a great diving catch by an OF. Averages fluctuate ALL THE TIME for EVERY hitter. Nobody sits at .300 all year long. I showed that Adam Frazier went through a worse slump than Renfroe just this past season dealing with short term "slumps" and long term slumps. It's natural. That's baseball.

Huh? Consistency of your results comes from all the shit you work on...drills, prep, scouting, etc. The results are what matter when you are getting paid. And you have to be consistent in those results.

[I seen it dawg]

If my tone comes across as argumentative, it's probably because I've seen Coach spew this stuff elsewhere and have an obvious personal vendetta against Renfroe. I don't think the guy is a god, I just think it's strange a State fan would try to overly underrate what the kid has done everywhere. He's the definition of a guy who would rather be able to come back here in 2 years and say 'I was right, Renfroe can't hack it' than 'I was wrong, he's awesome'.

See above on Dixon. Who thought Dixon would tear up the league? But I guess Coach is Nostradamus.

I know he was saying he was hot and cold. My point is, he wasn't. 2-3 games is not a streak either way in baseball. Using a 20 AB sample where a guy hit .150 as proof he is 'real erratic' is absurd.

You are angry.

[Will James]

And you have to be consistent in those results.

From year to year..... Not week to week

[Todd4State]

Renfroe was cut from Hillcrest in the 9th grade. Let that sink in. (Note: This was well after the end of the Paul Wyczawski era -- his player development program and ideals were practically completely gone from that program by this point. Don't want that legacy being associated with what came after him.)

Kid didn't play competitive baseball growing up prior to that beyond youth leagues and allstar teams. Not on a select/well-coached level. He didn't get much coaching and didn't get challenged at Copiah Academy. In reality, he's been playing "competitive well-coached baseball" for 3 years now. He came further in 3 years at MSU than any player I ever remember -- and still has a ton of room to improve and grow.

I don't see any purpose in trying to define his ceiling right now. He's still learning to play the game. Is he a big league hitter right now? No. But can he be? Why speak on it one way or another until we see where he is at this point next year? LITERALLY this time last year, he was made look foolish by your average college curve ball. My how that changed in a short period of time...

And Renfroe did slump at the end of the season(I can't even begin to think about the mental pressure that was on him) -- but that's not an indictment of "him not being able to hit good pitching". He hit elite staffs early in the season just fine against Arky, LSU, Kentucky, etc...

Anthony Cupps who was a very good pitcher at Ole Miss and was drafted out of both high school and college was cut from Madison Central's team.

I think the issue there a lot of times is it comes down to politics and which travel team your kid plays on. I've heard that Madison Central pretty much takes players from the same two travel teams and if your kid isn't on one of those teams, you don't stand much of a chance. I do understand from the coaches standpoint maybe trusting certain youth coaches more than others and there is some comfort in that, but the coaches still need to evaluate the talent that is trying out.

I'm not privy enough to know what or why Hunter was cut- but I do know that Hillcrest is still a pretty highly thought of baseball program in the metro area even though they have gone down since Coach Wy was there. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if he just didn't play on the right select team.

Who knows how many Hunter Renfroe's and Anthony Cupp's are out there that have been cut for the exact same reason?

So, I guess the lesson here is if you think your kid might want to play high school baseball, find out which select teams to try to get in with and if that doesn't work, consider going to a smaller school like Renfroe and Cupps.

It shouldn't be that way though.