Is Mullen... [Archive]

Bucky Dog

01-22-2016, 08:41 AM

We were talking about this last night. Why does no one go after OM coaches they way they do ours?

Our thought is that Mullen and staff have a reputation for developing players and in the end that is what other teams are looking for. Throw in the fact that, yeah he might be difficult to work for, and more money is thrown at them, might make it easier to leave. But, the coaches that are leaving are headed to predominately "better" opportunities.

msstate7

01-22-2016, 08:44 AM

For the most part, our coaches are leaving for better jobs... This has to help us get good, young coaches to keep coming

Reason2succeed

01-22-2016, 09:01 AM

so good at finding assistant coaches that it hurts him because they quickly get hired away?

or

is he an impossible d-bag that no one can get along with?

The answer to this question is pretty simple. Do coaches still want to come and work for Mullen? I say yes. When Mullen is able to hire an up and coming coach away from USC and Oregon to come to the back woods of Mississippi then obviously Mullen doesn't have a bad name in the coaching profession. If Mullen was the d-bag that Rebels claim he is (and it's only rebels and people influenced by them) then he would not be able to get young rising stars to risk their careers working with him.

I think that Mullen runs a fully developmental program that not only develops players but also coaches. Guys go on from here and do well. He benefit for us is that when Mullen's tenure is over we will have a great list of coaches to hire from. Also, we get the benefit of cutting edge coaching and not retreads.

louisvilledawg

01-22-2016, 09:27 AM

The answer to this question is pretty simple. Do coaches still want to come and work for Mullen? I say yes. When Mullen is able to hire an up and coming coach away from USC and Oregon to come to the back woods of Mississippi then obviously Mullen doesn't have a bad name in the coaching profession. If Mullen was the d-bag that Rebels claim he is (and it's only rebels and people influenced by them) then he would not be able to get young rising stars to risk their careers working with him.

I think that Mullen runs a fully developmental program that not only develops players but also coaches. Guys go on from here and do well. He benefit for us is that when Mullen's tenure is over we will have a great list of coaches to hire from. Also, we get the benefit of cutting edge coaching and not retreads.

Agree!

BrunswickDawg

01-22-2016, 09:30 AM

A lot of people have short memories about how they viewed moves in the past. Actually looks at the moves before throwing out the "asshole no one can work with"

2009 -Carl Torbush - Everyone said needed to go
Turner - lateral to coach with close friend (later came back)
2010 -Manny - step up to tx
Hud - step up to HC
2011 - None
2012 -Wilson "Asked" to find other employment
Mirando - Had to go
Melvin Smith - Everyone said needed to go
2013- Koenning - Everyone said needed to go
Brewster - Hired Gun
Ballis - eh
2014 - Collins - Personality clash - but moved to a "better" program
2015? Manny - went home
Deshea - to the NFL (step up)
Hughes - step up to HC
Court - eh

I really don't see any of those moves as anything indicting. Yes, some stability at DC would would be great so that we could really build on a system from year to year. Other than that, I see normal coaching churn for a top 20 program.

mcain31

01-22-2016, 09:33 AM

Balis went to coach with his best friend

HancockCountyDog

01-22-2016, 10:11 AM

For the most part, our coaches are leaving for better jobs... This has to help us get good, young coaches to keep coming

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this.

So far here is what we have lost:

Coach Hughes left to be the head coach at Jackson State. They tried to hire him the last time and he turned it down because it is not a better job. Its a different type of job, but not a better job.

Coach Townsend left to do the same job he had basically with the Cardinals while we were about to give him a coordinator title and probably make more money than he is making with Titans. At best that is a lateral move. He left partly because he was passed over for the DC job for a guy that had slightly less experience than him. People forget that assistant coaches have egos too and Im sure he wanted that gig.

Coach Diaz left for Miami, which is a lesser program than MSU. The only people thank this is a better job are the fans that think we are poor ole MSU and they are the U Well guess what, the 90s are over, Butch Davis is a fraud, and Miami is a shell of a program.

The support staff that left, didn't leave for on the field jobs best I can tell, except for Sleepy, and in all honest, a support staff job at a SEC school is a better gig than a on the field coach at JSU. It just is.

Simply put, we need to have less staff turnover year in and year out. IT is simply too hard to recruit at a high level when you have coaches leaving every year unless you are a top 5 school in the country or have built in advantages like LSU.

defiantdog

01-22-2016, 10:17 AM

He's the head coach, he's not their buddy. If coaches leave because Mullen is too mean, then they shouldn't be a coach in the first place.

Coach34

01-22-2016, 10:35 AM

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this.

So far here is what we have lost:

Coach Hughes left to be the head coach at Jackson State. They tried to hire him the last time and he turned it down because it is not a better job. Its a different type of job, but not a better job.

Coach Townsend left to do the same job he had basically with the Cardinals while we were about to give him a coordinator title and probably make more money than he is making with Titans. At best that is a lateral move. He left partly because he was passed over for the DC job for a guy that had slightly less experience than him. People forget that assistant coaches have egos too and Im sure he wanted that gig.

Coach Diaz left for Miami, which is a lesser program than MSU. The only people thank this is a better job are the fans that think we are poor ole MSU and they are the U Well guess what, the 90s are over, Butch Davis is a fraud, and Miami is a shell of a program.

The support staff that left, didn't leave for on the field jobs best I can tell, except for Sleepy, and in all honest, a support staff job at a SEC school is a better gig than a on the field coach at JSU. It just is.

Simply put, we need to have less staff turnover year in and year out. IT is simply too hard to recruit at a high level when you have coaches leaving every year unless you are a top 5 school in the country or have built in advantages like LSU.

totally disagree

Being a HC is a better job than being a Safety's Coach
Being a Pro CB coach is better than being a college CB coach
Miami still has more prestige than MSU. It just does- and it's in Miami. And where he is from
Sleepy wanted to coach- JSU gives him that chance. We couldnt

msstate7

01-22-2016, 10:36 AM

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with this.

So far here is what we have lost:

Coach Hughes left to be the head coach at Jackson State. They tried to hire him the last time and he turned it down because it is not a better job. Its a different type of job, but not a better job.

Coach Townsend left to do the same job he had basically with the Cardinals while we were about to give him a coordinator title and probably make more money than he is making with Titans. At best that is a lateral move. He left partly because he was passed over for the DC job for a guy that had slightly less experience than him. People forget that assistant coaches have egos too and Im sure he wanted that gig.

Coach Diaz left for Miami, which is a lesser program than MSU. The only people thank this is a better job are the fans that think we are poor ole MSU and they are the U Well guess what, the 90s are over, Butch Davis is a fraud, and Miami is a shell of a program.

The support staff that left, didn't leave for on the field jobs best I can tell, except for Sleepy, and in all honest, a support staff job at a SEC school is a better gig than a on the field coach at JSU. It just is.

Simply put, we need to have less staff turnover year in and year out. IT is simply too hard to recruit at a high level when you have coaches leaving every year unless you are a top 5 school in the country or have built in advantages like LSU.

Maybe you're right... Diaz is from Miami though. Maybe on top of Townsend being passed over for DC, he didn't like a new coach taking his position group or maybe he just doesn't like recruiting. While I agree an sec position coach is better than a swac HC, maybe Hughes doesn't agree.

PendingTransaction

01-22-2016, 10:38 AM

This is some funny shit. He's not holding people accountable. He's an ass

Dawg-gone-dawgs

01-22-2016, 10:45 AM

IF Freeze lost assistants, OM would be terrible because Freeze is not a coach AT ALL! He is a charismatic guy who has all the right things to say to get recruits to come and then can't do shit with them after they get there. Hell the only reason he even got hired at OM in the beginning was because of shady tactics in getting Oher to OM and now he is grooming Shea Pattersons brother to take the same path.

Political Hack

01-22-2016, 10:45 AM

1) Miami is not a better program than MSU and isn't even on the same level. It's laughable. Diaz went home.

2) More than 1 coach has left and come back. So the Dan is too tough to work for doesn't hold much water. Also, Saban is hard to work for. I'm ok with it if that is the case but I don't think it is (if you're doing your job).

3) MOST of the position coaches we've "lost" were actually pushed out. This year has been the exception to that. There are multiple reasons for that which I won't get into on a public message board, but this is not a long standing problem. It's a new one that developed this year. We've got a year to fix it.

Interpolation_Dawg_EX

01-22-2016, 10:50 AM

There's plenty of reasons no one wants anyone from the om staff. Dan Werner is tied to Ponzi schemes at Miami, Wommack is at the end of his career and isn't going to make a move with his salary and responsibilities, Kiffin has a bad history, and Derrick Nix, is well, Derrick Nix. They are good salesmen and good baby sitters, but they can't develop players to reach their full potential.

DancingRabbit

01-22-2016, 10:53 AM

This is some funny shit. He's not holding people accountable. He's an ass

Well, that's certainly the Rebel narrative. But Turner came back. Diaz came back. I would imagine most of Dan's hires have a way of finding out what it's like to work for him before joining up.

Dan himself has said that the first couple of years he was HC he was too hard on himself and his staff and he learned from it.

Lumpy Chucklelips

01-22-2016, 10:59 AM

Some coaches want to be head coaches. Tony Hughes was one of those guys. He has been an asst for a long time and has learned a lot of football from a lot of different people he has worked for and with. He is in his 50's and knows this would probably be his last chance. Most people who have any ambition want to move up in their careers. I certainly don't blame him for that. He simply wanted to be the head guy and put together his own program.

initially I hate it when a guy leaves but I'm not sure I would take any of these guys back if I had the choice, other than Hughes, and that's more for his recruiting than on field coaching and Hud as an asst. I wouldn't want Hud as head coach. The rest are replaceable.

coastratdog

01-22-2016, 11:13 AM

so good at finding assistant coaches that it hurts him because they quickly get hired away?

or

is he an impossible d-bag that no one can get along with?

You don't think Saban is an ass to work for. Although I know the results are a little different most high level coaches want it one their way and correctly.

IMissJack

01-22-2016, 11:36 AM

If we paid the average of SEC assistants would they leave so fast? I doubt it.

preachermatt83

01-22-2016, 11:47 AM

If we paid the average of SEC assistants would they leave so fast? I doubt it.

Agreed!!

DancingRabbit

01-22-2016, 12:22 PM

If we paid the average of SEC assistants would they leave so fast? I doubt it.

In 2015 MSU combined assistant pay was 10th in the SEC and 21st in the country. That seems reasonable based on our revenues.

Which assistants made a lateral move for more money? Manny to Texas is the only one I can think of recently.

Collins didn't get more money. I doubt that Miami is paying Manny more. Hughes is taking a pay cut.

Seems like our staff pay is not the issue it once was.

Johnson85

01-22-2016, 12:48 PM

maroonmania

01-22-2016, 01:18 PM

The only bad loss that is due to a personality clash is Collins.

Dishea got passed over for a job. I'm glad we didn't put him at DC after the Orange bowl last year and I understabd him wanting to move on. I'm sure he viewed that as something of a vote of no confidence by Mullen, whether he should or not.

Manny went home, but I really do not think Dan was sad to see him go. The only reason I would've wanted him to stay would be for the stability, not because he was doing a bang up job.

Other than the timing I'm not sure Deshea leaving is a big deal. Never really recruited at the level I was hoping for and our CB play was OK but nothing to write home about. I also figure Deshea wanted to move up as a coach and Dan has shown he has no issues promoting from within SO obviously Mullen didn't feel he was the answer at DC or he would have given him the job. It appears the only coaching slot to be in that its really tough to work for Dan is DC. I absolutely believe that. Mullen wants a defense that can consistently stop people but in today's college football that is a tough chore unless you have the talent of an Alabama.

Political Hack

01-22-2016, 01:22 PM

In 2015 MSU combined assistant pay was 10th in the SEC and 21st in the country. That seems reasonable based on our revenues.

Which assistants made a lateral move for more money? Manny to Texas is the only one I can think of recently.

Collins didn't get more money. I doubt that Miami is paying Manny more. Hughes is taking a pay cut.

Seems like our staff pay is not the issue it once was.

I would prefer to be in the upper half of the league. Our recruiting budget is lower than most. Our assistant coaches salaries are lower than most. That's not a good combo. They'd better invest in at least one, if not both.

SDDawg

01-22-2016, 01:46 PM

I would prefer to be in the upper half of the league. Our recruiting budget is lower than most. Our assistant coaches salaries are lower than most. That's not a good combo. They'd better invest in at least one, if not both.

This is the thing to fix and this is the year to do it. Not only to address it with incoming guys, but to have a plan for raises and growth for these guys to build retention. With the SEC Network money and success over the past 2 years, there is simply no excuse.

Political Hack

01-22-2016, 01:57 PM

This is the thing to fix and this is the year to do it. Not only to address it with incoming guys, but to have a plan for raises and growth for these guys to build retention. With the SEC Network money and success over the past 2 years, there is simply no excuse.

I'd say raises and growth for assistants starting next year. I don't see any real reason to throw money at them after this year. Many of the primary contributors on the staff are gone and I'm not sure our defensive staff deserves a raise based on the play we saw... And I'm not sure the offensive staff deserves a raise based on the recruiting results to date.

People don't realize how good we had it when we had guys like Les, Hud, Melvin, Hughes, Collins, Brewster, etc... On the recruiting trail. These young pups better learn the tricks of the trade quickly or we're going to see a decline in talent level. The great thing though is that there's a ton of talent already on campus and we will be a deeper team come next season. Better take advantage of it because we sure as shit didn't reap the benefits of a 10-win season and a NY6 bowl birth from last year.

SDDawg

01-22-2016, 02:18 PM

Better take advantage of it because we sure as shit didn't reap the benefits of a 10-win season and a NY6 bowl birth from last year.

I expected a bit more "pop" with a couple of top prospects, but top to bottom I think that 2017 will be very strong and part of that foundation was laid last year with the rising Juniors at that time. Agree with you on raises, the money needs to be in place for the next few years more so than anything immediate and I'm not sure much was deserved (although you have to be generally competitive in your league/division/etc.).

Regarding the staff, I think we've had a solid staff for recruiting but I don't think that's positioned to fall off with Simon and Tbuck necessarily. The next hire for Safeties will be an important one but I'm hopefully we'll actually re-energize recruiting with these changes over what we saw in '13 with that group. (edited reference to '14, which was awesome except for OL)

dparker

01-22-2016, 03:02 PM

JoseBrown

01-22-2016, 03:06 PM

totally disagree

Being a HC is a better job than being a Safety's Coach
Being a Pro CB coach is better than being a college CB coach
Miami still has more prestige than MSU. It just does- and it's in Miami. And where he is from
Sleepy wanted to coach- JSU gives him that chance. We couldnt

I agree with everything you just posted!

If there weren't turnover in the assistant ranks in football our coaches wouldn't have found better jobs for themselves either. I think we've had relatively good stability for a college program, except at the DC position. Can't blame Manny this time, he bettered his family while getting a better job.

maroonmania

01-22-2016, 03:33 PM

totally disagree

Sleepy wanted to coach- JSU gives him that chance. We couldnt

Well, can he coach safeties?

IMissJack

01-22-2016, 05:03 PM

It is a double edged sword to hire up and coming coordinators and coaches. Younger guys are probably a little more in tune with current recruits. However, usually a little older coordinator would bring a bit more stability, assuming he is good and gets normal raises. The young coaches are looking to move up always, as everyone is.

War Machine Dawg

01-22-2016, 05:48 PM

so good at finding assistant coaches that it hurts him because they quickly get hired away?

or

is he an impossible d-bag that no one can get along with?

The answer is "Yes." It's a combination of both. He can find good assistants, but he's a micromanager who makes life a living hell for them. So they bust their ass to get a promotion to get away. At least that's my read of the situation, particularly when it comes to defense. And unless you're one of his Yankee buddies or a longtime coaching partner a la Sallach, Hev, and Gonzalez.

smootness

01-22-2016, 06:59 PM

PendingTransaction

01-22-2016, 07:19 PM

The answer is "Yes." It's a combination of both. He can find good assistants, but he's a micromanager who makes life a living hell for them. So they bust their ass to get a promotion to get away. At least that's my read of the situation, particularly when it comes to defense. And unless you're one of his Yankee buddies or a longtime coaching partner a la Sallach, Hev, and Gonzalez.

I have the same read.