What recruiting means for baseball......

[Taog Redloh]

Just a quick little put-together for baseball here. If you assume that the meat of each team is it's 3rd year players, you can reasonably infer that the recruiting class 3 years prior to the season will be the meat of your team. Just looking at our past history here (PG rankings, not sure where else to get them, they only go back to 2011):

2008: likely unranked, lots of JUCOs 2011: regionals
2009: I think maybe it was OK 2012: regionals, cusp of hosting
2010: seems like it was ranked 2013: hosted
2011: #41 2014: regionals, cusp of hosting
2012: unranked 2015: nothing
2013: #16 2016: preseason #11
2014: #44
2015: #4
2016: will be ranked
2017: will be ranked

....that seems to ring true. There are obviously exceptions, such as the fact that the 2011 team was built mainly by JUCOs and not really the 2008 class, which was the Polk class that Cohen largely inherited. You can also look around the classes above and below and see that that, in addition to JUCO signees, can help or hurt an individual team. Mostly it says that it's all about the junior class, and to a smaller degree, the senior class. That rings true for 2013, which had a great junior class and decent senior class and 2014 which had a decent junior class and decent senior class (after MLB defections). 2015 reflects a crappy junior class and decent senior class.

Using this logic, it's obvious to see that the future is bright once we purge out the 2012 class. Unfortunately, to a smaller extent, they will effect the 2016 team, even though the 2013 class is the true meat. We can only hope that the decency of 2014 and eliteness of 2015 can offset this. Good news is, once we get into 2017, we should be in true reload mode, at least to the point of steady regionals and being on the cusp of hosting. 2014 class also got us some valuable JUCO 3-year players which may offset 2012 shit-tastic-ness.

Either way, not an exact science, but you can infer a little bit. It's painfully obvious to me that we had a miss-class in 2012, along with some attrition.

[messageboardsuperhero]

The 2012 and 2014 classes were not very good. The good news is that 2015 and beyond looks elite.

IMO, we are about to start to see a lot more stability and consistency in the program with the way we've been recruiting. You can tell we've put a plan in place the last couple of years- and with recruiting in baseball done so much further in advanced than football and basketball, we won't start to reap those benefits until now... Or to a greater extend 2017 and beyond. There are a lot fewer weak links in the classes ahead than in previous classes.

[Taog Redloh]

A lot of folks talk about the bats/balls and that is valid, but it still boils down to athletes. I think people get too wrapped up in schemes and X/Os, in all sports. People talk about UCLA as the poster-child for the dead bat/high seam ball era from 2011-2014, but the fact of the matter is they had some elite talent on that squad who could execute that system. 2 lights out starting pitchers and a dominant closer will win the CWS in most years regardless of bats and balls. Either way, yes Cohen went all-in with that and had to re-recruit, but still, we had a good many injuries too, and class defections.

I am hoping that 2014 was not nearly as bad as 2012. Numbers alone say it has to be a little better. I mean Jacob Robson and Cody Brown are literally the only HS players we got out of the 2012 class. 2014 has Gridley, Gordon and a couple of 3 year players (Reynolds and Daniel Brown). That class will hurt us worse in 2018 as 4th year players IMO. Hopefully the 2015 hot shots can make up for it.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

What do ya'll think has caused this upswing in recruiting the last 3 years? What are we doing differently now that we weren't doing in 2012-2014?

[Political Hack]

If the "meat" isn't ranked high enough the younger guys will replace them on the field.

[engie]

What do ya'll think has caused this upswing in recruiting the last 3 years? What are we doing differently now that we weren't doing in 2012-2014?

How recruiting in baseball works. Almost everyone signs 1.5 years+ before making it to campus. We didn't get the full benefit of the CWS run until the class of 2015. Having guys sign so far out from being on campus and contributing is what got us caught with our pants down when the ball change came about.

[engie]

If 4th year players are actually hurting us on the field -- we busted on the classes that followed.

[Taog Redloh]

If the "meat" isn't ranked high enough the younger guys will replace them on the field.
You would think, but maturity means a lot in college baseball. You see one-year jumps all over the place. Your junior year is typically your peak. That being said, if your younger guys are replacing them on the field, that means your team is probably getting beat by other teams with more talented upperclassmen. There aren't many freshman-laden teams out there that make a bunch of noise. 2010 Florida is an exception, not a rule.

[Todd4State]

What do ya'll think has caused this upswing in recruiting the last 3 years? What are we doing differently now that we weren't doing in 2012-2014?

Going to the CWS Finals helped us immensely. Also, I think ESPN with the SEC Network and things like the 30 for 30 with Will Clark have helped take MSU baseball to an entirely new audience- basically going from regional to more national. The new baseball field upgrades haven't hurt us either- and before someone says it, no that doesn't guarantee that we'll get a player or win a championship. But it does show that baseball is big time at MSU. Not to mention guys like Hunter Renfroe, Jacob Lindgren, Adam Frazier, Chris Stratton and etc. becoming high draft picks and making MLB or about to make it in MLB very soon. Ultimately almost every baseball player desires to make it to MLB one day- and guys want to go somewhere that they know that they can go play and get there one day.

And I'll say this too- Mingione and Butch deserve a lot of credit for our recruiting as well. Mingione isn't exactly Charley Lau- but he is a very good recruiter who has expanded our recruiting base as soon as he was promoted. They work their tails off and do a great job of finding players that are talented that are tough signs for MLB. And yes, we have lost a few- but we landed Jared Padgett, Parker Ford, Elih Marrero and were darn close to landing Austin Riley and Grey Fenter. And those are guys that either were drafted or ranked by MLB in the top 100 draft prospects list.

[messageboardsuperhero]

What do ya'll think has caused this upswing in recruiting the last 3 years? What are we doing differently now that we weren't doing in 2012-2014?

Echoing what others have said about baseball recruiting being done so far in advance, the 2013 and 2014 classes were pretty much already set by the time we went on the CWS run. And 2015 was already in full swing too. That's what makes this so different from football and why you have to be more patient and understanding when it comes to baseball progress. We will just now be starting to see the first signs of benefits of that exposure on the field in this year's freshman class- three whole seasons removed from it actually taking place.

I also think that we have made a total shift in recruiting strategy, now placing a tremendous emphasis on size and power- both on the mound and in the field. Look at the difference in listed physical stature of our signees from 09-14 to 15 and beyond. It is night an day. We were all in on the high-seemed "dead ball" era of college baseball, and now we're going all in on the low seam. Cohen has taken some deserved criticism in the past year, but one thing even the "Fahr Cohenzz" crowd cannot deny is that he is very good at adjusting his program to the current climate of the sport.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

So let me ask this question....I understand we are recruiting out two to three years in advance....did we just mis-evaluate on those bad classes? And next question....say today we offer a guy for 2018 or 2019 and he commits; and a year and a half from now we see this player is not progressing like we thought....do/can we pull his offer? I've seen us pull offers in football and think when we offer in football there is a contingency that the player has to meet certain things throughout his recruitment. Do we do the same in baseball?

Also ran across this article today if anyone is interested. Some good info in there. http://www.d1baseball.com/news/abca-notebook-big-changes-on-horizon/

[Todd4State]

Echoing what others have said about baseball recruiting being done so far in advance, the 2013 and 2014 classes were pretty much already set by the time we went on the CWS run. And 2015 was already in full swing too. That's what makes this so different from football and why you have to be more patient and understanding when it comes to baseball progress. We will just now be starting to see the first signs of benefits of that exposure on the field in this year's freshman class- three whole seasons removed from it actually taking place.

I also think that we have made a total shift in recruiting strategy, now placing a tremendous emphasis on size and power- both on the mound and in the field. Look at the difference in listed physical stature of our signees from 09-14 to 15 and beyond. It is night an day. We were all in on the high-seemed "dead ball" era of college baseball, and now we're going all in on the low seam. Cohen has taken some deserved criticism in the past year, but one thing even the "Fahr Cohenzz" crowd cannot deny is that he is very good at adjusting his program to the current climate of the sport.

There is no doubt in my mind that had we been given a year to adjust to the conditions of the game we wouldn't have missed a beat. I think our bats were garbage too- I saw us strike some balls pretty well last year only to watch them die like someone shot them out of the sky. Yes, Cohen is very good at adjusting to the game.

As far as recruiting the biggest change I see is our JUCO hitters are now mainly power guys- like Barfield, Harrison Bragg, and Chance Goldwater. I'm not sure if Colin Holderman will pitch or play third or both for us either yet. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Todd4State]

So let me ask this question....I understand we are recruiting out two to three years in advance....did we just mis-evaluate on those bad classes? And next question....say today we offer a guy for 2018 or 2019 and he commits; and a year and a half from now we see this player is not progressing like we thought....do/can we pull his offer? I've seen us pull offers in football and think when we offer in football there is a contingency that the player has to meet certain things throughout his recruitment. Do we do the same in baseball?

Also ran across this article today if anyone is interested. Some good info in there. http://www.d1baseball.com/news/abca-notebook-big-changes-on-horizon/

Part of the problem is our scholarship situation has been jacked up for years. We'll have a huge class followed by a small class. That leaves gaps some years- and is a reason why Cohen has had to go with a lot of JUCO's. I think we have straightened that out for the most part finally.

As far as baseball offers go- yes we can pull offers. And have done so in rare instances. I know we asked Jamie McMahon to walk on after we pulled his offer because he had a rough senior year at Oak Grove- and he decided to go to USM. I suspect it's a little more complicated in baseball than the other sports because I'm sure in a lot of instances an "offer" may mean that a player was able to get an academic scholarship or some other aid. An "offer" in some cases may simply mean- "we want you on the team" and sometimes I'm sure it means scholarship money in most cases.

Good stuff in that article- baseball is the most oppressed sport in the NCAA. They not only limit the amount of money spent, but also tell the coaches how to spend it basically. Baseball needs at least 20 full scholarships.

I like the idea about fall/exhibition baseball. Other sports are allowed to have and play exhibition games- like basketball. But baseball- can't have that because it's not fair for schools in Massachusetts or some BS like that.

I like the idea of another paid coach on staff. ESPECIALLY MSU. That would allow us to get another coach to recruit and in our case probably coach catchers or another hitting coach and just allow Mingione to recruit. My question is will they continue to allow "volunteer assistant" coaches in addition to the extra coach? I hope the answer is yes.

[Taog Redloh]

We were all in on the high-seemed "dead ball" era of college baseball, and now we're going all in on the low seam.
Ole Butch got out at the perfect time. I think his peak as an assistant was 2012-2014. I think his strategy would have taken him downhill from there with the new changes. Hopefully for him, he hires a good pitching coach at Auburn. I want him to do well but damn it is hard for me to pull for him while at Auburn.