So, When Does Ole Miss Get Their Notice of Allegations?

[ShotgunDawg]

So, ULL was wrapped up today & it seems that Ole Miss has a bunch of irons in the fire.

- They have the Tunsil deal that won't go unpunished

- They have at least some amount of academic fraud, however, how much, how many sports, & how many coaches are involved is under investigation.

- They have allegations by most SEC programs that they are paying players

When you start listing out the potential issues, it's pretty easy to see why the NCAA is taking so long to finish up this investigation, but how much longer will it take?

Personally, after listing all of these potential issues, I think Lack of Institutional Control could be at stake here. It's one thing when you have academic fraud, or a player gets caught accepting extra benefits, or you are accused of paying players, however, when you have the golden sombrero of all three & possibly more, that seems like rather systematic & over arching problems.

[starkvegasdawg]

Rose has said he thinks it'll be in 6-8 weeks. I know we all wanted something before signing day but it just isn't going to happen.

[msstate7]

How severe would the infractions have to be to allow new recruits to transfer without sitting out?

[Churchill]

Severe enough to make the network stop making the payroll. Nobody leaves if the money keeps flowing.

[starkvegasdawg]

How severe would the infractions have to be to allow new recruits to transfer without sitting out?
I think...think...that if a player hasn't played and a school gets hit they can request to be released without having to sit a year. Not sure if the coaches have to ok that or not. Or I could be dead wrong about all of it. Hope this helps.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

I wrote this in another thread and nobody has responded, so I'll try again here to see if anyone knows.

Let me ask this....

Now that the NCAA has given Saunders his punishment for his involvement, I am assuming they won't add to it for anything they come out with at OM. Is that right? I can't imagine them giving him a showcause and then adding to it when declaring OM's sins.

If that is correct, what would stop Saunders from now opening up to the NCAA and spilling the beans on OM? And i ask this because what I have read is that he has not been open, even to the point of lying, to the NCAA about his involvement. If I'm wrong on that or all around, let me know.

[Doctor Smug]

I think...think...that if a player hasn't played and a school gets hit they can request to be released without having to sit a year. Not sure if the coaches have to ok that or not. Or I could be dead wrong about all of it. Hope this helps.

it's got to be pretty severe, though. maybe i'm wrong, but weren't only upper-classmen (or something) allowed to transfer from Penn State after the Sandusky stuff?

and that was by far the most severe we've seen in a LONG time.

don't think USC wasn't allowed any special transfer rules after Reggie Bush, and that was probably the next biggest.

[yjnkdawg]

I think...think...that if a player hasn't played and a school gets hit they can request to be released without having to sit a year. Not sure if the coaches have to ok that or not. Or I could be dead wrong about all of it. Hope this helps.


If my understanding is correct, you are right on the players can transfer without sitting out a year, and I don't think the coaches have control on where they transfer to. I'll try to do a little more research, as I may not be right on all of this.

[Coach34]

If that is correct, what would stop Saunders from now opening up to the NCAA and spilling the beans on OM?

Saunders rolled on OM

[ShotgunDawg]

Saunders rolled on OM

Hmmm, so what do you see happening?

[msstate7]

Hmmm, so what do you see happening?

Loss of 20 scholarships over 3 years, must cut down 4 trees in the grove over same period, a strict no chandelier policy must be enforced, and no more than 10 neck sweaters on gameday**

[TXDawg]

I wrote this in another thread and nobody has responded, so I'll try again here to see if anyone knows.

Let me ask this....

Now that the NCAA has given Saunders his punishment for his involvement, I am assuming they won't add to it for anything they come out with at OM. Is that right? I can't imagine them giving him a showcause and then adding to it when declaring OM's sins.

If that is correct, what would stop Saunders from now opening up to the NCAA and spilling the beans on OM? And i ask this because what I have read is that he has not been open, even to the point of lying, to the NCAA about his involvement. If I'm wrong on that or all around, let me know.

Seems more likely that the NCAA would offer to reduce Saunders' show-cause duration in exchange for testimony regarding the "big fish" in this whole ordeal.

Don't forget that the investigation into ULL and Saunders started in Oxford. The NCAA has (supposedly) been up there for 3 years. Seems logical that they'd impose a HUGE sanction against Saunders, then use that to leverage him into giving up the information they really want.

[Political Hack]

The Associate Athletic Director for Recruiting within their Athletic Department was arranging for fraudulent test scores for prospective student-athletes across multiple sports programs?

You think LOIC is possible? It ain't rocket science. They're about to get bushwhacked.

[yjnkdawg]

If my understanding is correct, you are right on the players can transfer without sitting out a year, and I don't think the coaches have control on where they transfer to. I'll try to do a little more research, as I may not be right on all of this.


After reading and trying to interpret the NCAA ByLaws on transferring, the only way I see a player can transfer, without sitting out a year, is to transfer to a lower level Division school. It mentioned nothing about when a school goes on probation, sanctions, etc. It seems there would have to be some type of leniency granted by the NCAA in the transfer process, as they did do concerning the Penn State situation.

[Spiderman]

Seems more likely that the NCAA would offer to reduce Saunders' show-cause duration in exchange for testimony regarding the "big fish" in this whole ordeal.

Don't forget that the investigation into ULL and Saunders started in Oxford. The NCAA has (supposedly) been up there for 3 years. Seems logical that they'd impose a HUGE sanction against Saunders, then use that to leverage him into giving up the information they really want.

Saunders knows he is never coaching D-1 again. There's not much they can do to him or threaten him with.

[alexaton]

Seems more likely that the NCAA would offer to reduce Saunders' show-cause duration in exchange for testimony regarding the "big fish" in this whole ordeal.

Don't forget that the investigation into ULL and Saunders started in Oxford. The NCAA has (supposedly) been up there for 3 years. Seems logical that they'd impose a HUGE sanction against Saunders, then use that to leverage him into giving up the information they really want.

If that's the case, then wouldn't that imply that they haven't really found anything concrete to use against UNM? At the very least, it implies they haven't found very much to hammer them with. So if Saunders doesn't testify against them, they likely will just end up with a slap on the wrist, if that.

[Reason2succeed]

Recruits should steer clear of Ole Miss if they want any hopes of post season play anytime soon. I see a bowl ban definitely being a part of the punishment just by comparing it to Ohio State's ruling for much less. Then again with the reduction in scholarships and the fallout among coaches and recruits Ole Miss will be lucky to find six wins while their on probation.

[PassInterference]

Maybe we can invite Saynders to our home games and have him subtweet Ole Miss from The Junction.

[Really Clark?]

Back to the original question, I have no info if they have or have not received a NOA yet, but they can sit on it until they respond which they have to do within so many days (60 or 90 I think). They could ask for an extension as well. But until they respond they don't have to make the NOA public which would be a part of their response. Just like ULL, until their response was published the actual NOA was not known. Now obviously if reporters would start asking them about it constantly they would with have to lie if they do have it or admit to having received a NOA.

ETA. It is 90 days to respond

[Spiderman]

Saunders rolled on OM

You just hearing that from someone, or would you bet big on it?

That would be the death blow if i happened.

[Coach34]

You just hearing that from someone, or would you bet big on it?

That would be the death blow if i happened.

Hearing it 100% happened because they tried to bury him

[TopWaterDog]

So, ULL was wrapped up today & it seems that Ole Miss has a bunch of irons in the fire.

- They have the Tunsil deal that won't go unpunished

- They have at least some amount of academic fraud, however, how much, how many sports, & how many coaches are involved is under investigation.

- They have allegations by most SEC programs that they are paying players

When you start listing out the potential issues, it's pretty easy to see why the NCAA is taking so long to finish up this investigation, but how much longer will it take?

Personally, after listing all of these potential issues, I think Lack of Institutional Control could be at stake here. It's one thing when you have academic fraud, or a player gets caught accepting extra benefits, or you are accused of paying players, however, when you have the golden sombrero of all three & possibly more, that seems like rather systematic & over arching problems.

Wow that would be epic. Where'd you hear other schools turned em in? I'm glad someone finally stepped up. Yes everyone cheats but they tried to do too much against the big boys. Should've known their place

[Dawgowar]

They will have a bigger problem if it is shown they lost control of the Academic side of the house. Accreditation- put that at risk and you go from being the supposed ...gag..."Harvard of the Confederacy" to DeVry. Multiple Chancellors over a decade plus...deny you knew, no control. State you knew ...complicity.

[engie]

Hearing it 100% happened because they tried to bury him

It would seem that he actually still got buried, so....

[Coach34]

It would seem that he actually still got buried, so....

All I can say is I was told Saunders told the NCAA about the Tire Man paying a certain person $500 a pop to take the ACT in Waynesboro for some players. We'll see what the NCAA says

[starkvegasdawg]

All I can say is I was told Saunders told the NCAA about the Tire Man paying a certain person $500 a pop to take the ACT in Waynesboro for some players. We'll see what the NCAA says

I'll take the ACT for somebody for $500 a pop. It's been about 24 years since I took it but I bet I remember enough to make some kid a 18 or 19 to get them eligible.

[DawgPoundLazer]

Are there any statute of limitations issues, or was his most recent employment under Nutt enough to drag Freezus into this? Time to bury TSUN.

[Mjoelner34]

Are there any statute of limitations issues, or was his most recent employment under Nutt enough to drag Freezus into this? Time to bury TSUN.

Yesterday I was reading about the academic fraud case at UNC and saw that there is a 4 year statute of limitations based on the time that the Notice of Allegations is given BUT, there are two exceptions to that rule that could apply to both UNC and UM. They are:
(b) Allegations in a case in which information is developed to indicate a pattern of willful violations on the part of the institution or individual involved, which began before but continued into the four-year period; and
(c) Allegations that indicate a blatant disregard for the Association’s fundamental recruiting, extra-benefit, academic or ethical-conduct regulations or that involve an effort to conceal the occurrence of the violation. In such cases, the enforcement staff shall have a one-year period after the date information concerning the matter becomes available to the NCAA to investigate and submit to the institution a notice of allegations concerning the matter.

At UNC, only 3 grade changes in the summer of 2009 fall under the statute of limitations and would probably only warrant a slap on the wrist. But, a pattern was uncovered dating back to 2006 which clearly fits condition (b) of exceeding the statute of limitations. The article goes on to state: In both those cases, the 110 suspected temporary and 14 suspected permanent unauthorized grade changes between Spring 2006 and Summer 2009 would be critical in establishing the exception to the statute of limitations. If most or all those grade changes could not be explained, especially if they helped athletes stay eligible, they would establish a pattern of violations that continues into the statute of limitations period, or would be extensive enough that they might show a blatant disregard for a fundamental academic rule.

So, to quickly answer your question. Yes, there is a statute of limitations of 4 years but, at least when it comes to academic fraud, it looks like all bets are off if the NCAA can establish a pattern of behavior.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

they won't

[615]

I think it's safe to say we shouldn't be holding our breaths. Hopefully we can close out with 5/5 of our targets and keep our program moving forward, but forgive me for thinking this is just grasping at straws. If in "6-8" weeks I am proven wrong then that is great, but we have been led down this road before and come up with nothing. We just had a great season, but the majority of our attention is focused on an assistant coach that hasn't been at OM since 2010. If there was any concrete evidence I would believe it, but all we have heard is "it's coming" and it never does. If it does, great, but let's worry about us and stop doing rain dances in hopes that OM gets the hammer.

[32 Dive]

Until I see evidence from the NCAA, for the contrary:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/09/article-2535709-1A7D371000000578-703_964x531.jpg

[ShotgunDawg]

Are there any statute of limitations issues, or was his most recent employment under Nutt enough to drag Freezus into this? Time to bury TSUN.

The investigation into Ole Miss began before the 4 year SOL was up, so, in this case, it doesn't apply

Remember, this investigation began 3 years ago

[Coach007]

I wrote this in another thread and nobody has responded, so I'll try again here to see if anyone knows.

Let me ask this....

Now that the NCAA has given Saunders his punishment for his involvement, I am assuming they won't add to it for anything they come out with at OM. Is that right? I can't imagine them giving him a showcause and then adding to it when declaring OM's sins.

If that is correct, what would stop Saunders from now opening up to the NCAA and spilling the beans on OM? And i ask this because what I have read is that he has not been open, even to the point of lying, to the NCAA about his involvement. If I'm wrong on that or all around, let me know.

No. In the call, that question was asked. This was just dealing with ULL. Saunders could get more. Orthey may reduce it if he gives information.... Pure speculation on that though

[scottycameron]

All I can say is I was told Saunders told the NCAA about the Tire Man paying a certain person $500 a pop to take the ACT in Waynesboro for some players. We'll see what the NCAA says

I want to buy in but some of it doesn't add up. This is one of the things. Why would anybody be taking the ACT for these kids? What's the point? The scheme was to change the test answers from what I read. Why would you bring in a normal kid to take the ACT if the folks giving it are changing answers?
This part just reminds me of that JFK movie. There was too much going on. I wish we would just stick with the changing scores, THAT IS MORE THAN ENOUGH. Adding this other stuff in seems to just kind of taint the good dirt they have on them, IMO.

[Coach34]

Because your Batesville kids would make a 5 on the test- and changing too many answers raises red flags

[Boodawg]

If they do get LOIC, what's the punishment in that senario?

[maroonmania]

You have to hand it to them though, even with all this hanging over their head all I hear on every radio show and from the talking heads on TV is how great a job Hugh Freeze is doing at OM and how they are a favorite to win the West next year and set up for another Top 10 recruiting class this Feb. I mean its full on positive PR all the time. Back when we were under investigation with Sherrill one of the biggest consequences of the whole ordeal was the difficulty of recruiting under that cloud. OM is thriving in the same situation. Seems nobody really even acknowledges that they may get hit pretty hard by the NCAA. Its all just sunshine and rainbows for Hugh Freeze and the Rebel Black Bear program to listen to it.

[engie]

Because your Batesville kids would make a 5 on the test- and changing too many answers raises red flags

My understanding of what I read is that mass erasures did in fact raise red flags in the case...

Batesville kids could be a whole different scenario though.

[Coach007]

Not exactly. They found the mass erasures due to the investigation. It's but one of the reason that ULL has filed a lawsuit against the ACT.

[scottycameron]

Because your Batesville kids would make a 5 on the test- and changing too many answers raises red flags

See this is what I'm talking about. We have it set up perfect, they were changing answers(erasure marks gave them away- the answers that were changed were always changed to correct answers. Duh, how big of a giveaway is that? You been around theses kids, if they start thinking on something the least likely outcome is a correct answer). But then we add to it. Now we have a regular kid getting paid to take the test AND the administrator changing answers to correct ones. We go from something solid to people doing the eye roll thing. This is not helping my skepticism at all. Then again I don't like pushy sales jobs either. Tell me you would rather I not buy something and that it'd be in my best interest not to buy it, and you got me sold, lol. Skeptical by nature I guess.

[ShotgunDawg]

You have to hand it to them though, even with all this hanging over their head all I hear on every radio show and from the talking heads on TV is how great a job Hugh Freeze is doing at OM and how they are a favorite to win the West next year and set up for another Top 10 recruiting class this Feb. I mean its full on positive PR all the time. Back when we were under investigation with Sherrill one of the biggest consequences of the whole ordeal was the difficulty of recruiting under that cloud. OM is thriving in the same situation. Seems nobody really even acknowledges that they may get hit pretty hard by the NCAA. Its all just sunshine and rainbows for Hugh Freeze and the Rebel Black Bear program to listen to it.

If there is one thing Ole Miss has done better than most any program in the country, other than Bama, it's infiltrating the media with fans & alumni.

I know Ole Miss fans make fun of us for saying, "Bear controlled media", but it's true that they have a disproportionate number of fans that are in the media. I also think they benefit from a politically correct society in which it's wrong to call out a school for cheating without substantial proof or the NCAA already handing down sanctions.

From Aschoff, to Footballscoop, Wright Thompson, Yancy, the CL, Daily Journal, Brando, Jimmy Sexton's daughter goes to OM, etc... they've got a disproportionate number of people that can influence opinions. They have more than LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, & other far more successful programs. It's uncanny & certainly helps them spread the message

[DownwardDawg]

If there is one thing Ole Miss has done better than most any program in the country, other than Bama, it's infiltrating the media with fans & alumni.

I know Ole Miss fans make fun of us for saying, "Bear controlled media", but it's true that they have a disproportionate number of fans that are in the media. I also think they benefit from a politically correct society in which it's wrong to call out a school for cheating without substantial proof or the NCAA already handing down sanctions.

From Aschoff, to Footballscoop, Wright Thompson, Yancy, the CL, Daily Journal, Brando, Jimmy Sexton's daughter goes to OM, etc... they've got a disproportionate number of people that can influence opinions. They have more than LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee, & other far more successful programs. It's uncanny & certainly helps them spread the message

Don't forget about Shep Smith. I have to change the channel when he's on. (Please don't turn this into a Fox news thread)

[blacklistedbully]

See this is what I'm talking about. We have it set up perfect, they were changing answers(erasure marks gave them away- the answers that were changed were always changed to correct answers. Duh, how big of a giveaway is that? You been around theses kids, if they start thinking on something the least likely outcome is a correct answer). But then we add to it. Now we have a regular kid getting paid to take the test AND the administrator changing answers to correct ones. We go from something solid to people doing the eye roll thing. This is not helping my skepticism at all. Then again I don't like pushy sales jobs either. Tell me you would rather I not buy something and that it'd be in my best interest not to buy it, and you got me sold, lol. Skeptical by nature I guess.

Actually, the report I read said the vast majority of the changed answers were correct, not 100%. But that would be what one would expect from someone cheating. All changed to 100% raises too big of a flag right away.

[JDog13]

In Conner's and Powe's cases, how would you erase crayon?

[Coach34]

I'm just relaying what is coming from ULL people and others that would know

[Political Hack]

See this is what I'm talking about. We have it set up perfect, they were changing answers(erasure marks gave them away- the answers that were changed were always changed to correct answers. Duh, how big of a giveaway is that? You been around theses kids, if they start thinking on something the least likely outcome is a correct answer). But then we add to it. Now we have a regular kid getting paid to take the test AND the administrator changing answers to correct ones. We go from something solid to people doing the eye roll thing. This is not helping my skepticism at all. Then again I don't like pushy sales jobs either. Tell me you would rather I not buy something and that it'd be in my best interest not to buy it, and you got me sold, lol. Skeptical by nature I guess.

I can understand why that would give you pause, but it doesn't change the fact that the NCAA is investigating academic fraud that was perpetrated by an OM Ath Dept official as part of a 3-year investigation. They're hosed. The NCAA WILL NOT invest that much time and resources and walk away with nothing. I can personally promise you that. They interviewed up to 100 people in our last round with them and came away with a "loosey-goosey Kevin Bacon 6-degrees of separation someone knew someone who got a car so there must be something there" finding. The report they released was wildly inaccurate from the truth, but they still put us on probation because they had invested too much time and resources.


What you have here is a lawsuit filed by ULaLa, which Saunders WAS NOT NAMED IN, placing blame on someone else. You know who's cooperating? The guy they're not suing.

[Coach34]

What you have here is a lawsuit filed by ULaLa, which Saunders WAS NOT NAMED IN, placing blame on someone else. You know who's cooperating? The guy they're not suing.


And just because taking tests for someone wasn't mentioned in the ULL report- doesn't mean that didn't happen for Ole Missus

[starkvegasdawg]

Thought I had. If this person was being paid to take or change tests I'm betting it was never listed on a W2. I think somebody could be threatened with tax evasion if they don't start singing.

[Coach34]

In Conner's and Powe's cases, how would you erase crayon?

i think they used the big fat pencils

[Jack Lambert]

I think...think...that if a player hasn't played and a school gets hit they can request to be released without having to sit a year. Not sure if the coaches have to ok that or not. Or I could be dead wrong about all of it. Hope this helps.

Seniors will also be able to leave.

[Political Hack]

Thought I had. If this person was being paid to take or change tests I'm betting it was never listed on a W2. I think somebody could be threatened with tax evasion if they don't start singing.

Unemployed kids don't have to file W-2's. The person doing this was close to the same age as the students.

[chainedup_Dawg]

In Conner's and Powe's cases, how would you erase crayon?

Magic Erasers will knock that right out

[RougeDawg]

If that's the case, then wouldn't that imply that they haven't really found anything concrete to use against UNM? At the very least, it implies they haven't found very much to hammer them with. So if Saunders doesn't testify against them, they likely will just end up with a slap on the wrist, if that.

4th post and this is your best ability to hide your true colors? Either that or you need work in the area of reading comprehension and reasoning.

[yjnkdawg]

If that's the case, then wouldn't that imply that they haven't really found anything concrete to use against us? At the very least, it implies they haven't found very much to hammer us with. So if Saunders doesn't testify against us, we likely will just end up with a slap on the wrist, if that.

I think he had an OM word association deficit disorder in his post. I think this wording above better reflects what his intent actually was, although his thinking was not very intellectual or accurate at all. Another one bites the dust.

[MedDawg]

.

[GoDawgGo]

Can't wait for them to get popped. Wipe that shit eating grin off of my brother since the egg bowl.

[Jack Lambert]

Hmmm, so what do you see happening?

I'm not in the know but I suspect the NCAA investigator told him if you ever want a chance to coach division I football again you better come clean.

[GoDawgGo]

LMAO

[BossDawg]

Can't wait for them to get popped. Wipe that shit eating grin off of my brother since the egg bowl.

Yeah I can imagine it's pretty bad, considering how obsessed UMiss fans are with MSU and how they consider the EB their Super Bowl and all. They FINALLY win a couple of Egg Bowls and blow a gasket. If it's one thing we have learned, they don't win enough to actually know how to handle winning. UMiss is that blind squirrel that finds a few nuts then tries to convince everyone that it isn't blind. Knowwut I mean?

[Really Clark?]

I'm not in the know but I suspect the NCAA investigator told him if you ever want a chance to coach division I football again you better come clean.

I think he can pretty much write off ever coaching in Div 1 again. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the only guy who got 8 years like him was Bozeman the Cal basketball coach. He returned to Morgan St who is a low Div 1. Anderson never got another coaching job and Bliss is in NAIA.

[GoDawgGo]

It's gonna be glorious.

[Really Clark?]

LMAO

We have twitchy ban fingers today. You've been posting on the edge of the Yancy slurp meter.

[Coach34]

We have twitchy ban fingers THIS MONTH. You've been posting on the edge of the Yancy slurp meter.

FIFY

[GoDawgGo]

We have twitchy ban fingers today. You've been posting on the edge of the Yancy slurp meter.

Why?

[Really Clark?]

FIFY

Thanks for correcting that error. They are coming out of the wood work.

[Dawgface]

I was at a pub last night and there were 3 OM fans near me talking about the good recruits they had coming in. They didn't seem to have one worry about anything other than if they were closing on a couple of 4* recruits. There may be a few worried that are in the know, but I doubt the average fan is worried one bit.

[bonesknowstig]

I'm a bit worried... I've known this was coming for a while. Rosebowl would tell you as much as we converse a lot on the smack page. What it stems from, as far as the current staff is concerned, will be whether or not Nix or Mo Harris were involved with Saunders. If so... we get hammered. If not, it's a smack with the ruler and all you fellas will be complaining. Either way... we go on probation. The matter of how severe is still to be resolved. No, they couldn't track the cash.