ULL sanctions are out, and they are a damn slap on the wrist for ULL...

[HancockCountyDog]

They lose 3 scholarships for two years and can only have have 80 on scholarship for one year.

Saunders gets an 8 year show cause because he didn't cooperate.

If the bears get that, they will be laughing their ass off.

here is the link:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/former-louisiana-lafayette-coach-arranged-fraudulent-test-scores-acted-unethically-0

[engie]

Vacated wins for ineligible players too...

Like I've said all along -- it's the threat of repeat offenders that's the key. That's in place for 7 years for ULL

[Really Clark?]

They agreed to the self imposed sanctions and it's 11 scholarships total. Plus additional 2 years probation time. This is exactly what most figured since the were very cooperative with the investigation.

[missouridawg]

While I don't expect OM to get much, don't forget that OM has had widespread trouble in their athletic department. It's not just Saunders and academic fraud at OM. It's several other things across multiple sports.

[HancockCountyDog]

The fact that they had a player admit to a cash payment from Saunders was key. That is what got us in the past as well.

[engie]

While I don't expect OM to get much, don't forget that OM has had widespread trouble in their athletic department. It's not just Saunders and academic fraud at OM. It's several other things across multiple sports.

Correct. The NCAA's approach to OM shows almost without a doubt that they are going after institutional control. Think about it -- they didn't give our baseball and basketball programs rectal exams when they were here for Redmond. And the ULL sanctions are only slightly more severe than ours were.

The question is -- can they get institutional control. If they can, their punishments will be alot more severe. But I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[Op4isabitch]

That was a fast investigation and announcement of sanctions.

If I were Ole Miss I'd be concerned, 3 plus years and no announcements yet.
Saunders is tied to their program and the issues with Tunsil and other players in addition to Track and Women's BB team, yeah I'd be getting a bit nervous.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

It seemed like they were in some pretty deep shit with women's basketball and I know they had something fishy going on with their women's track team (seemed like a coach slept with a player). Not sure what is taking so long with the women's basketball sanctions as that happened a while back and I thought they caught them pretty red handed.

[Really Clark?]

Plus Saunders was hammered. One of the longest show causes in history.

[ElitedawgRecruiting]

Fact of the matter is this. I was told by a source very close to ULL that the NCAA agreed to their self imposed penalties and they did. But Saunders was used as the scale goat by OM. And he retaliated. This ain't over for OM by a long shot. Saunders didn't roll over on Hud. But if I am OM. I would be very very worried

[ElitedawgRecruiting]

It went fast cause ULL cooperated and gave them the big fish they wanted

[msstate7]

It seemed like they were in some pretty deep shit with women's basketball and I know they had something fishy going on with their women's track team (seemed like a coach slept with a player). Not sure what is taking so long with the women's basketball sanctions as that happened a while back and I thought they caught them pretty red handed.

Only thing that makes sense is the ncaa is lumping women's basketball with football. Who knows though?

[HancockCountyDog]

That was a fast investigation and announcement of sanctions.

If I were Ole Miss I'd be concerned, 3 plus years and no announcements yet.
Saunders is tied to their program and the issues with Tunsil and other players in addition to Track and Women's BB team, yeah I'd be getting a bit nervous.

I see it differently. ULL had a player admit to receiving cash, I think the bears have their guys on tighter leashes. They basically found 5 cases of academic fraud, and they get hit with 3 scholarship reductions for two years? That is nothing. If Im a ULL fan, Id be thrilled with this penalty.

Also, I was hoping to see reference to the phrase "another member institution" throughout the report. That is code for Ole Miss. In a 33 page report, they are only mentioned 7 times and primarily to discuss where these recruits came from.

Im not through reading the 33 page report, just did a search for that phrase, because that is all I really care about, but I have to admit Im not happy.

[engie]

Ultimately -- this clears Hud though. He's now on the same plane as Dan in that matter...

[HancockCountyDog]

Ultimately -- this clears Hud though. He's now on the same plane as Dan in that matter...

Does it follow him though? I think it would. Then again, these are such minor penalties, that maybe its forgotten by next year.

[msstate7]

Ultimately -- this clears Hud though. He's now on the same plane as Dan in that matter...

Replacement in place... Maybe. Start winning again, hud

[JDog13]

Front page

[Really Clark?]

I see it differently. ULL had a player admit to receiving cash, I think the bears have their guys on tighter leashes. They basically found 5 cases of academic fraud, and they get hit with 3 scholarship reductions for two years? That is nothing. If Im a ULL fan, Id be thrilled with this penalty.

Also, I was hoping to see reference to the phrase "another member institution" throughout the report. That is code for Ole Miss. In a 33 page report, they are only mentioned 7 times and primarily to discuss where these recruits came from.

Im not through reading the 33 page report, just did a search for that phrase, because that is all I really care about, but I have to admit Im not happy.

It's 11 scholarships. They already self imposed 5 for this year. And the NCAA have them additional probation besides the self imposed as well.

[HancockCountyDog]

It's 11 scholarships. They already self imposed 5 for this year. And the NCAA have them additional probation besides the self imposed as well.

Yeah, but moving forward they only lose 3 this next year and 3 the following year. We lost 4 scholarships and lost Will Redmond for 18 games. When you look at scope of the allegations against ULL and what was admitted and found out, I just think that the penalties were minor compared to what I thought was going to happen.

[Really Clark?]

Yeah, but moving forward they only lose 3 this next year and 3 the following year. We lost 4 scholarships and lost Will Redmond for 18 games. When you look at scope of the allegations against ULL and what was admitted and found out, I just think that the penalties were minor compared to what I thought was going to happen.

Why? We already knew the bulk of the penalties from the self imposed portion. NCAA usually doesn't hammer a school much harder unless they were uncooperative. That they actually added an additional 2 years probation above the self imposed is still pretty lengthy. And they hammered the heck out of Saunders.

[BrunswickDawg]

Is Saunders' show cause equal to the number of years he was on staff at OM & ULL??

[msudawglb]

Only thing that makes sense is the ncaa is lumping women's basketball with football. Who knows though?

lumping women's basketball with football.....that's right up Freeze's alley.

[HancockCountyDog]

Why? We already knew the bulk of the penalties from the self imposed portion. NCAA usually doesn't hammer a school much harder unless they were uncooperative. That they actually added an additional 2 years probation above the self imposed is still pretty lengthy. And they hammered the heck out of Saunders.

They hammered Saunders because he lied. That is what the NCAA has proven, you lie you die.

We are talking academic fraud basically being proven and yet the school is getting off with 6 scholarship reductions in the future. For academic fraud? Hell, some of those penalties are for paying improper benefits, more than Redmond received.

So, they got 11 scholarships over 3 years, for paying a player, and for committing academic fraud. We got 4 scholarships over 2 years, and lost Will Redmond for 18 games, so that is tantamount for losing 6 scholarhips over 2 years, and with no allegations of academic fraud.

I just see this as things to come. Anyone expecting the bears to get hit with USC level sanctions is fooling themselves. I wanted to see 15-20 scholarships taken away over a 4 year period in the future. Max of 18 guys signed.

[yjnkdawg]

Steve had said that the key to the ULL invesitigation was how hard Saunders got hit. He said if Saunders got less than a 5 year show cause, then OM is looking at minor sanctions, but he said if Saunders got 5 years or more, that OM had better look out. I hope this is case, and not based on what happened to ULL.

[MSUDawg99]

Steve had said that the key to the ULL invesitigation was how hard Saunders got hit. He said if Saunders got less than a 5 year show cause, then OM is looking at minor sanctions, but he said if Saunders got 5 years or more, that OM had better look out. I hope this is case, and not based on what happened to ULL.

That's exactly what I was hoping for too!

[HoopsDawg]

That's exactly what I was hoping for too!

8 year show clause, wow. He is pretty much done. And he also thinks Ole Miss withheld money they owe him. If I'm Ole Miss, I'm worried.

[Thompson92]

Based on the information in pages 1-3 of the report, the NCAA has been investigating OM football for academic violations during the time when Saunders was there. (Obviously) That is what led them to ULL.
Beyond that, it's difficult for me to say. Some of you may be able to read between the lines better than I can.

[Really Clark?]

They hammered Saunders because he lied. That is what the NCAA has proven, you lie you die.

We are talking academic fraud basically being proven and yet the school is getting off with 6 scholarship reductions in the future. For academic fraud? Hell, some of those penalties are for paying improper benefits, more than Redmond received.

So, they got 11 scholarships over 3 years, for paying a player, and for committing academic fraud. We got 4 scholarships over 2 years, and lost Will Redmond for 18 games, so that is tantamount for losing 6 scholarhips over 2 years, and with no allegations of academic fraud.

I just see this as things to come. Anyone expecting the bears to get hit with USC level sanctions is fooling themselves. I wanted to see 15-20 scholarships taken away over a 4 year period in the future. Max of 18 guys signed.

I think you are missing the point that ULL was not a part of the academic fraud and they helped investigate the problem. Big difference in a school committing academic fraud and being duped into accepting fraudulent scores by a rouge member of their staff. And who they broke away from as soon as they had enough evidence that Saunders and his culprit with the ACT testing were behind this fraud. They still was penalized just because he was on staff. But it wasn't like ULL themselves were committing the fraud.

[HancockCountyDog]

8 year show clause, wow. He is pretty much done. And he also thinks Ole Miss withheld money they owe him. If I'm Ole Miss, I'm worried.

I wonder what Adam is going to do with him. If Im the bears and this is the penalty that ULL got, Im not too worried.

[ElitedawgRecruiting]

Could it possibly just mean Saunders didn't roll over on Hud because he knows ole miss was trying to make him ghe scape goat. And are ole miss fans so damn dumb that they thought the NCAA would punish them in ULL report?

[HancockCountyDog]

I think you are missing the point that ULL was not a part of the academic fraud and they helped investigate the problem. Big difference in a school committing academic fraud and being duped into accepting fraudulent scores by a rouge member of their staff. And who they broke away from as soon as they had enough evidence that Saunders and his culprit with the ACT testing were behind this fraud. They still was penalized just because he was on staff. But it wasn't like ULL themselves were committing the fraud.

Yeah, but one of the first things the NCAA says is that the employer is responsible for the actions of their employees.

The last time Saunders was at Ole Miss was 2010, before then I think he worked there from 2006-2008, I can't find a bio anywhere since every school linked to this crook has deleted his bio.

I guess my point is that the bears could make the same argument that ULL made, which is once we thought he was doing something shady, we fired him, hell he only worked for us less than a year.

The point remains that ULL committed academic fraud and was caught paying players, and combined only got 11 scholarships over 3 years. Compared that to us for allegedly paying a player and we got hit with basically 6 scholarships over 2 years.

I think I may just be frustrated with the Redmond punishment still, because compared to what ULL was involved with, Redmond seems like we got a prison sentence for taking a penny out of the give a penny/take a penny tray.

[yjnkdawg]

Could it possibly just mean Saunders didn't roll over on Hud because he knows ole miss was trying to make him ghe scape goat. And are ole miss fans so damn dumb that they thought the NCAA would punish them in ULL report?

Some of them think that OM is above all and basically their sports' programs, especially football, can walk on water (SPLASH!!!).

[HancockCountyDog]

Could it possibly just mean Saunders didn't roll over on Hud because he knows ole miss was trying to make him ghe scape goat. And are ole miss fans so damn dumb that they thought the NCAA would punish them in ULL report?

Why wouldn't Saunders roll over on Hud? Hud clearly made him the scapegoat, probably because he was in fact guilty. It seems like in reading the report, Saunders admitted his guilt after getting caught and then just stopped talking.

Hell, one of the three main allegations was a cash payment made by Saunders to a player and that still didn't get more than this?

[Really Clark?]

Yeah, but one of the first things the NCAA says is that the employer is responsible for the actions of their employees.

The last time Saunders was at Ole Miss was 2010, before then I think he worked there from 2006-2008, I can't find a bio anywhere since every school linked to this crook has deleted his bio.

I guess my point is that the bears could make the same argument that ULL made, which is once we thought he was doing something shady, we fired him, hell he only worked for us less than a year.

The point remains that ULL committed academic fraud and was caught paying players, and combined only got 11 scholarships over 3 years. Compared that to us for allegedly paying a player and we got hit with basically 6 scholarships over 2 years.

I think I may just be frustrated with the Redmond punishment still, because compared to what ULL was involved with, Redmond seems like we got a prison sentence for taking a penny out of the give a penny/take a penny tray.

I understand what you are saying. And part of the Redmond that people seem to forget was the alleged payment for him not to go on any other OV. That was a significant sum that we agreed to the violation of. What we agreed on, was a good bit more than just a jacket and discount on a car. In total ran up toward $9,000??? I think.

[SunCoastDog]

I can see the sanctions for UM coming. No probation, no scholarships. The only penalty is they have to vacate all wins for the 2011 season. Both of them (Southern Illinois and Fresno State).

[Thompson92]

Yeah, but one of the first things the NCAA says is that the employer is responsible for the actions of their employees.

The last time Saunders was at Ole Miss was 2010, before then I think he worked there from 2006-2008, I can't find a bio anywhere since every school linked to this crook has deleted his bio.

I guess my point is that the bears could make the same argument that ULL made, which is once we thought he was doing something shady, we fired him, hell he only worked for us less than a year.

Definitely possible. Or it could be that they're in the middle of a more extensive (in terms of severity and length of time) investigation at OM, and this was something they uncovered along the way. Wishful thinking, maybe. But the fact that they've fully completed one ancillary investigation while working on the OM investigation is telling.

[Really Clark?]

Why wouldn't Saunders roll over on Hud? Hud clearly made him the scapegoat, probably because he was in fact guilty. It seems like in reading the report, Saunders admitted his guilt after getting caught and then just stopped talking.

Hell, one of the three main allegations was a cash payment made by Saunders to a player and that still didn't get more than this?

But ULL contested that allegation that there was nothing to show that money ever being given.

[Big4Dawg]

The part that I find telling is this:


During those interviews, the enforcement staff believed the former assistant football coach may have known of or may have been involved in NCAA rules violations concerning academic issues while at another member institution.

So the NCAA belives the coach was involved in violations concerning academic issues while at Ole Miss.

[Political Hack]

1) this investigation started from an investigation at another member institution (Ole Miss), which isn't concluded. So this investigation started later and ended faster. Conclusion? It's a much more straight forward and simple investigation with ULaLa. There's more to look into and determine with Ole Miss. That investment of time and resources alone will result in stiff penalties.

2) based on #1, you can bet your bottom dollar that OM will see more harsh penalties than ULaLa.

3) the fraud happened while he was at OM as an athletic department administrator for RECRUITING!!!! It happened across multiple sports programs. Can you say "loss of institutional control?" Quote from the report "institutions act through their institutional staff." That's a HUGE quite refer encountered Saunders actions while at OM. The writing is on the wall.

4) "During his employment at a previous member institution, the former assistant football coach developed a relationship with a test administrator for a national college entrance exam provider at a rural Mississippi high school (high school)." SANCTIONS COMING!!!

5) Who is student athlete 2? Looks to be a transfer from OM. He was in jail during the interview. They were ineligible at OM too, if they were ineligible at ULaLa. Conclusion: Wins will be vacated.

All in all, this is bad, bad news for OM. ULaLa took a hit for something that occurred while an employee of theirs was at another institution. I can guaran-damn-tee you that the development of this fraudulent scheme at the university of Mississippi won't go unpunished, and that the sanctions ULaLa received will be far less than what OM will receive.

IT'S COMING!!! And this "IT" is only the academic fraud side of things...

[Political Hack]

The part that I find telling is this:



So the NCAA belives the coach was involved in violations concerning academic issues while at Ole Miss.

Keep reading. It goes further than that. It says he arranged the scheme while at OM.

[AlSwearengen]

I would think that if the ncaa showed up at ULL b/c of what they found while being camped out in oxford, along with the fact that ULL's investigation began after olemiss' and their sanctions have been announced before olemiss', would be cause for concern in oxford.

That is just my simpleton logic kicking in. Olemiss' investigation seems to be much broader than ULL's, so I would think sanctions would correlate to some degree.

That said, the days of the ncaa absolutely hammering programs are in the past.

[Political Hack]

Al, that's why you own the best brothel in town brother. You know how to use your noodle.

Pun intended.

[Coach34]

Could it possibly just mean Saunders didn't roll over on Hud because he knows ole miss was trying to make him ghe scape goat.

Yeahhhhhh- OM is getting worse than ULL. What people arent getting is that this stuff didnt stop when Freeze took over. OM people are just trying to blame Nutt- deflect, deny...but this system was in place- it wasnt a Nutt thing. And Saunders rolled them

[Coach34]

The NCAA is having to go back and search all OM signees for the last 6-7 years places they took the ACT. All kinds of stuff. It's alot to gather

[jumbo]

Don't know if it has been mentioned yet or not. But Freeze was recruiting coordinator in 2006 when Saunders was on staff at OM. That could be a pretty big piece of the puzzle.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Don't know if it has been mentioned yet or not. But Freeze was recruiting coordinator in 2006 when Saunders was on staff at OM. That could be a pretty big piece of the puzzle.

"The other violations reported by Ole Miss included tight ends coach Hugh Freeze, who at the time was director of football operations and did not have recruiting responsibilities. Freeze participated in telephone calls with four Memphis-area prospects between Oct. 30 and Nov. 13."

2006 Violations (http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2324493)

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

"The other violations reported by Ole Miss included tight ends coach Hugh Freeze, who at the time was director of football operations and did not have recruiting responsibilities. Freeze participated in telephone calls with four Memphis-area prospects between Oct. 30 and Nov. 13."

2006 Violations (http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2324493)


So Freeze, who had no recruiting responsibility's, participated in recruiting activities by calling four recruits.

I could see where he misunderstood his job duties, was confused and unwittingly violated NCAA rules. The NCAA rule book is tremendously large I have heard. This would also go against his Christian values as well. No way he willingly violated any rules here. Wink, wink.