Something scary about 1/29 OV date

[coastratdog]

In sales there are two rules of thumb; be the last to pitch and always be closing. My concern is that Freeze getting the last shot at a lot of kids we want and Freeze is an excellent salesman. With the financial inducements aside Freeze can close the deal. Wouldn't surprise me that they get most of the kids in MS this year. Mullen could use a huge dose of Salesmanship training.

[msstate7]

Which kids are you predicting they beat us for?

[Tripp McNeely]

The biggest risk for Freeze...and has rung true in A LOT of cases over the past couple years when they've attempted to have a "last weekend/recrootapalooza" is half the kids not showing up to Oxford

[BossDawg]

I seriously don't think it's so much Freeze as it is their bag men. Freeze knows what's going on, too. He has a golden tongue, no doubt, but they're getting what they're getting mainly because of envelopes stuffed with cash.

[defiantdog]

I'd be more worried with Bama's 1/22 big weekend for a lot of our recruits like AJ and Knott.

[Coach34]

The biggest risk for Freeze...and has rung true in A LOT of cases over the past couple years when they've attempted to have a "last weekend/recrootapalooza" is half the kids not showing up to Oxford

Absolutely. People forget about this. Risk they take going last

[coastratdog]

The biggest risk for Freeze...and has rung true in A LOT of cases over the past couple years when they've attempted to have a "last weekend/recrootapalooza" is half the kids not showing up to Oxford

I understand the risk that's why everyone feels they pay for visits. Also over the past years the word on the street is the visit is very worth their while.

[HancockCountyDog]

I expect the bears will start moving some of these visits to the 22nd.

Also, Im willing to bet anyone on here that if you took the list of visitors of the bears right now from any recruiting service, that at most, 70% of the guys listed today will actually visit the bears that weekend.

Kids almost always have their mind made up before that last weekend.

[Tripp McNeely]

I expect the bears will start moving some of these visits to the 22nd.

Also, Im willing to bet anyone on here that if you took the list of visitors of the bears right now from any recruiting service, that at most, 70% of the guys listed today will actually visit the bears that weekend.

Kids almost always have their mind made up before that last weekend.

Of course...the REAL key is what makes up that 30%. They already have 20 commits. So, I'm sure at least 15ish of those kids show on the 29th. Those 15+ are locked in anyway

[HancockCountyDog]

Of course...the REAL key is what makes up that 30%. They already have 20 commits. So, I'm sure at least 15ish of those kids show on the 29th. Those 15+ are locked in anyway

My guess is that they will start moving some of those kids to the 22nd. They can't have 20 kids visit and it be worth anything.

I really think they have a crash finish. Now, Im not saying they don't have a good class already, they do, but they aren't going to finish strong. I see them missing out on pretty much every big name recruit they are left on. Maybe they get the safety from Texas. Maybe.

[engie]

The biggest risk for Freeze...and has rung true in A LOT of cases over the past couple years when they've attempted to have a "last weekend/recrootapalooza" is half the kids not showing up to Oxford

This.

The vast majority of the head to head battles in MS do not visit both schools, even though almost all of them set up OVs to both early. Our guys get locked up on the 22nd -- theirs don't show up to MSU on the 22nd.

[preachermatt83]

They will have a top 10 class. They will continue to beat us as long as they are doing that. Period.

[SDDawg]

If you test drive 3 cars, do you always buy the 3rd? If you visit 2 or 3 stores to check out a product, do you always buy one at the last stop? Of course you don't. Recruits don't necessarily do that either. The 1/29 date doesn't make me nervous. Freeze is a good recruiter but his best recruiting happens outside of OVs (all allegations aside).

Mullen is not Freeze and Freeze is not Mullen. Different coaches and styles appeal to different kids. If I wanted Freeze as my coach, I'd cheer for the Rebels because it's almost a certainty MSU will never hire a coach like that. Having strong recruiting does not require that our coach have a personality like Freeze.

[Coach34]

We had 5 draft picks last year
We will have 7 this year

Our OL recruiting is what is doing us in for the most part. Until that improves- the rest really doesn't matter

[War Machine Dawg]

I seriously don't think it's so much Freeze as it is their bag men. Freeze knows what's going on, too. He has a golden tongue, no doubt, but they're getting what they're getting mainly because of envelopes stuffed with cash.

Don't forget the "benefits" from the crootin "hostesses."

[War Machine Dawg]

We had 5 draft picks last year
We will have 7 this year

Our OL recruiting is what is doing us in for the most part. Until that improves- the rest really doesn't matter

And we all know what's hampering us in that area. Yet there seems to be no movement to fix it on Mullen's end.

[coastratdog]

If you test drive 3 cars, do you always buy the 3rd? If you visit 2 or 3 stores to check out a product, do you always buy one at the last stop? Of course you don't. Recruits don't necessarily do that either. The 1/29 date doesn't make me nervous. Freeze is a good recruiter but his best recruiting happens outside of OVs (all allegations aside).

Mullen is not Freeze and Freeze is not Mullen. Different coaches and styles appeal to different kids. If I wanted Freeze as my coach, I'd cheer for the Rebels because it's almost a certainty MSU will never hire a coach like that. Having strong recruiting does not require that our coach have a personality like Freeze.

SDDawg I doubt your career is in sales. Odds are you buy the last car you see. Why do you think a dealership was will throw everything at you not to leave. You let your prospect out that door you can bet you lost that sale. I never said I wanted Mullen to be like Freeze. Just st maybe up his salesmanship.

[ShotgunDawg]

And we all know what's hampering us in that area. Yet there seems to be no movement to fix it on Mullen's end.

Not supporting Hev here, but how do you actually know that he is the problem?

I think it's a combination of a bunch of circumstances most of which is our state probably produces less SEC caliber OL than any other position, except QB.

[mic]

Not supporting Hev here, but how do you actually know that he is the problem?

I think it's a combination of a bunch of circumstances most of which is our state probably produces less SEC caliber OL than any other position, except QB.

Yes it does.. But when we have an In on a big time out of state OL we don't make much effort to get him.
Lazy ...

[ShotgunDawg]

Yes it does.. But when we have an In on a big time out of state OL we don't make much effort to get him.
Lazy ...

Who are you talking about?

I haven't heard that story

[sandwolf]

Who are you talking about?

I haven't heard that story

I have seen people make reference to this on several occasions, but nobody will say who it was or what happened.....it is apparently some big secret.

[mic]

Who are you talking about?

I haven't heard that story

Pm'ed to you...

[SDDawg]

SDDawg I doubt your career is in sales. Odds are you buy the last car you see. Why do you think a dealership was will throw everything at you not to leave. You let your prospect out that door you can bet you lost that sale. I never said I wanted Mullen to be like Freeze. Just st maybe up his salesmanship.

I have a ton of experience in sales so we can agree to disagree. Yes, there are "buyers" out there that will be swayed by the last pitch but not enough to worry about.

[Coach34]

I have seen people make reference to this on several occasions, but nobody will say who it was or what happened.....it is apparently some big secret.

4-star OL guy out of state works for a State guy that is close to his family
Get kid to camp last Summer- and our coaches dont know wtf he is and treated him like a nobody until they saw how good he was. Staff was pre-warned about him
Guaranteed to be in his top 3- except we dont hardly ever contact him
He is now a Bama-Clemson battle

[SDDawg]

4-star OL guy out of state works for a State guy that is close to his family
Get kid to camp last Summer- and our coaches dont know wtf he is and treated him like a nobody until they saw how good he was. Staff was pre-warned about him
Guaranteed to be in his top 3- except we dont hardly ever contact him
He is now a Bama-Clemson battle

That's horrific honestly. I'd say that's not just lazy and poorly executed, it's pretty stupid too.

[ShotgunDawg]

4-star OL guy out of state works for a State guy that is close to his family
Get kid to camp last Summer- and our coaches dont know wtf he is and treated him like a nobody until they saw how good he was. Staff was pre-warned about him
Guaranteed to be in his top 3- except we dont hardly ever contact him
He is now a Bama-Clemson battle

Extremely frustrating.

Any thoughts on why we didn't pursue him or do you really think it's laziness?

[mic]

Extremely frustrating.

Any thoughts on why we didn't pursue him or do you really think it's laziness?

That's the $1,000,000 question.
Plus there is a QB/ athlete there at the school where this kid played that already has a Bama offer... Was just a 10th grader this past football season..

[War Machine Dawg]

Not supporting Hev here, but how do you actually know that he is the problem?

I think it's a combination of a bunch of circumstances most of which is our state probably produces less SEC caliber OL than any other position, except QB.


Yes it does.. But when we have an In on a big time out of state OL we don't make much effort to get him.
Lazy ...

Exactly. Hev isn't just lazy, though. He's freaking psychotic and can't turn it off for recruits. It's one thing to be a raging asshole at practice and during games. It's entirely another to be that way when you're trying to convince a 16-17 year old and his parent(s) and/or grandparent(s) he should come to play for the school you represent.

And Hev does a decent job developing prospects, but I wouldn't consider him great at that, either. Hell, most of our fans hate JB Grimes because he's associated with the Croom Error, but that guy is kicking ass over at Auburn developing their OL. I'd trade Hev for Grimes in a heartbeat.

I'll agree we need to change our crootin strategy when it comes to OL and broaden the geographic area where we're looking for them. MS produces OL, but they tend to be extremely raw, which requires an elite talent developer. Are we convinced Hev is that elite developer? Emphasis on elite - not good, not even great. Elite.

[ShotgunDawg]

Exactly. Hev isn't just lazy, though. He's freaking psychotic and can't turn it off for recruits. It's one thing to be a raging asshole at practice and during games. It's entirely another to be that way when you're trying to convince a 16-17 year old and his parent(s) and/or grandparent(s) he should come to play for the school you represent.

And Hev does a decent job developing prospects, but I wouldn't consider him great at that, either. Hell, most of our fans hate JB Grimes because he's associated with the Croom Error, but that guy is kicking ass over at Auburn developing their OL. I'd trade Hev for Grimes in a heartbeat.

I'll agree we need to change our crootin strategy when it comes to OL and broaden the geographic area where we're looking for them. MS produces OL, but they tend to be extremely raw, which requires an elite talent developer. Are we convinced Hev is that elite developer? Emphasis on elite - not good, not even great. Elite.

Has Grimes at Auburn really done a better job than Hev?

Outside of this past season, our O-line has been fairly consistent.

[state66]

Hevesy is a very good O line coach, is he not? Only knock on him is his recruitment of the offensive line? Am I correct on this front? If hes neither a great offensive line coach nor a good recruiter we got problems and I understand the frustration. I remember talking with an offensive lineman a couple years ago and he said hevesy will not play you unless you master the footwork. Leads me to believe hes a very good coach but shit offensive line recruiter/ evaulater.

[War Machine Dawg]

Not supporting Hev here, but how do you actually know that he is the problem?

I think it's a combination of a bunch of circumstances most of which is our state probably produces less SEC caliber OL than any other position, except QB.


Yes it does.. But when we have an In on a big time out of state OL we don't make much effort to get him.
Lazy ...


Hevesy is a very good O line coach, is he not? Only knock on him is his recruitment of the offensive line? Am I correct on this front? If hes neither a great offensive line coach nor a good recruiter we got problems and I understand the frustration. I remember talking with an offensive lineman a couple years ago and he said hevesy will not play you unless you master the footwork. Leads me to believe hes a very good coach but shit offensive line recruiter/ evaulater.

I would say Hev is a "good" OL coach, but not great or elite. And he seems to struggle getting guys into the right positions - Warren at LT instead of RT or on the bench, Desper at RG instead of LG or C, Malone at G instead of LT, Clayborne at C instead of G and that's just this season. We seem to have constantly shuffled guys on the OL and never really found a home for some of them. Now if you want to argue that's a talent issue, that's a fair point and I might be incluned to agree. But with some guys, it's really damn obvious. One look at Malone should tell you he's an OT. And one look at Clayborne should tell you he's a G. Hell, Clayborne was being compared to Gabe Jackson as a freshman for his body shape and the way he played. But now he's supposed to be a C? Put guys where they're supposed to be and let the rest work itself out instead of always trying to plug guys wherever you "need" them.

[sandwolf]

4-star OL guy out of state works for a State guy that is close to his family
Get kid to camp last Summer- and our coaches dont know wtf he is and treated him like a nobody until they saw how good he was. Staff was pre-warned about him
Guaranteed to be in his top 3- except we dont hardly ever contact him
He is now a Bama-Clemson battle

If everything played out like you described it, then that is ****ing inexcusable.

[DownwardDawg]

We had 5 draft picks last year
We will have 7 this year

Our OL recruiting is what is doing us in for the most part. Until that improves- the rest really doesn't matter

I agree.

[Brando]

Let me ask yall this, if you were a 17 or 18 yr old kid and heard rumors of what they did on the OV parties, wouldnt you want to go just to either get the hand out? Hell even if i was sit in stone to somewhere, Id take 10 grand from that Buck tooth bastard Bucky. I believe alot of recruits are hearing the rumors and will commit to just get the money for there families, then say bye! when the time comes to really lock in.

[BossDawg]

Exactly. Hev isn't just lazy, though. He's freaking psychotic and can't turn it off for recruits. It's one thing to be a raging asshole at practice and during games. It's entirely another to be that way when you're trying to convince a 16-17 year old and his parent(s) and/or grandparent(s) he should come to play for the school you represent.

Why in the hell is it always us that has to deal with a coach that won't do something about his shitbag tag along? Can Strick not get on Mullen's case and make him do something about Hev?

[mic]

Why in the hell is it always us that has to deal with a coach that won't do something about his shitbag tag along? Can Strick not get on Mullen's case and make him do something about Hev?

Bingo....
When someone has the power to step in and try to improve things and yet does not...
The Country Club....

[mic]

If everything played out like you described it, then that is ****ing inexcusable.

You have no idea.. And everyone wonders why our OL talent is what it is...

[Todd4State]

I would say Hev is a "good" OL coach, but not great or elite. And he seems to struggle getting guys into the right positions - Warren at LT instead of RT or on the bench, Desper at RG instead of LG or C, Malone at G instead of LT, Clayborne at C instead of G and that's just this season. We seem to have constantly shuffled guys on the OL and never really found a home for some of them. Now if you want to argue that's a talent issue, that's a fair point and I might be incluned to agree. But with some guys, it's really damn obvious. One look at Malone should tell you he's an OT. And one look at Clayborne should tell you he's a G. Hell, Clayborne was being compared to Gabe Jackson as a freshman for his body shape and the way he played. But now he's supposed to be a C? Put guys where they're supposed to be and let the rest work itself out instead of always trying to plug guys wherever you "need" them.

I don't think Hevesy is all that good. It's possible that Sherrod and Gabe Jackson were too elite to screw up.

What you are talking about is a major problem I have with Hevesy. It was very obvious any time someone got hurt that our o-line was all out of position. And yet, nothing changed. As a position coach that is all on him obviously.

I could probably tolerate the recruiting laziness if he actually was developing our guys at a high level, but that just isn't happening with that position group. And even worse, his position group is killing us in big games.

[Todd4State]

Why in the hell is it always us that has to deal with a coach that won't do something about his shitbag tag along? Can Strick not get on Mullen's case and make him do something about Hev?

From what I have heard the rumor is if Hevesy was forced out then Dan leaves too. THAT'S the problem if true. And would explain why nothing gets done on that front.

Everyone at MSU is terrified of a Cutcliffe situation.

Hevesy is Dan's Woody McCorvey.

[OSCAR]

That's horrific honestly. I'd say that's not just lazy and poorly executed, it's pretty stupid too.

We need to cast a wider net. Lazy is right. Thats a frustrating story to hear.

[Big4Dawg]

And the sad thing is, we don't have SOMEONE in a high enough position to see this shit and make Mullen do something about it. Mullen is not willingly going to do anything about Hev. So this will always be the worst area of our team, so it seems like we've reached our ceiling. If you're not improving in the SECW, you're getting left behind. And we're about to be left behind. Hev will be the downfall of what Mullen has built.

[TopWaterDog]

We have 19 wins the last two seasons. Only Alabama has more... We need to improve for sure but that's my wife's level of overreaction haha

[Todd4State]

And to pile on- but I don't know if anyone here read a story that Paul did where he interviewed Hevesy at the end of the season. Basically Hevesy did acknowledge that there was an issue this past year (that's good I guess) but the thing that stood out to me was it sounded like he kind of blamed the S&C guys or the players themselves for not working out hard enough in the offseason. And my thought was- if you knew that they weren't doing what they were supposed to do in the offseason why didn't you personally do something about it? I know there is limited contact in the offseason but I would imagine that a position coach can have a conversation with the players such as "hey- get your ass in gear in the weight room."

It just sounded to me like the whole article was "yeah, I know there is a problem but it wasn't my fault".

He blamed Clayborn for not being as much of a leader as he should have been- I mean, if that's the case, why not go with Malone at C?

[Todd4State]

We have 19 wins the last two seasons. Only Alabama has more... We need to improve for sure but that's my wife's level of overreaction haha

OK- we have 19 wins. Great. No one is complaining about that and no one is overreacting to anything. We could have even more and taken our program to the next level with a couple of more big wins and all we have to do to get there is fix this one position group. That's what everyone is complaining about. Why be happy with 9 wins when we can have 10 and go to an even better bowl? Especially if it's a simple fix?

Not critically analyzing problems and being satisfied with the current state of affairs is what leads to downfalls.

[TopWaterDog]

I agree. But to say we are about to be left behind, the post I was responding to, just seemed outlandish. As long as Dan is our head coach from here on out we will never win less than 7 games and will always be 1-2 plays from 9-10 depending on the bounces. That's called competing in a gauntlet

[Todd4State]

I agree. But to say we are about to be left behind, the post I was responding to, just seemed outlandish. As long as Dan is our head coach from here on out we will never win less than 7 games and will always be 1-2 plays from 9-10 depending on the bounces. That's called competing in a gauntlet

In the SEC you're either moving forward or you're moving backwards. We can't afford to have a coach that is lazy on the staff or it will catch up to us after awhile. And eventually we will get left behind. It likely wouldn't be an immediate thing but gradually over time.

[ScoobaDawg]

We have 19 wins the last two seasons. Only Alabama has more... We need to improve for sure but that's my wife's level of overreaction haha

We have 19 wins, with no wins over Bama. TSUN has beat them twice in a row..and beaten us twice in a row.
This is what knock those 19 wins down some. Yes it's a high point in the program, but it's not all sunshine

[Spiderman]

Let me ask yall this, if you were a 17 or 18 yr old kid and heard rumors of what they did on the OV parties, wouldnt you want to go just to either get the hand out? Hell even if i was sit in stone to somewhere, Id take 10 grand from that Buck tooth bastard Bucky. I believe alot of recruits are hearing the rumors and will commit to just get the money for there families, then say bye! when the time comes to really lock in.\

They don't go all out for every single player. Believe it or not, some just like or just want to go to Ole Miss.

Now the Treadwell's, Tunsil's and Littles of the world are a whole other story.........

[War Machine Dawg]

And the sad thing is, we don't have SOMEONE in a high enough position to see this shit and make Mullen do something about it. Mullen is not willingly going to do anything about Hev. So this will always be the worst area of our team, so it seems like we've reached our ceiling. If you're not improving in the SECW, you're getting left behind. And we're about to be left behind. Hev will be the downfall of what Mullen has built.


In the SEC you're either moving forward or you're moving backwards. We can't afford to have a coach that is lazy on the staff or it will catch up to us after awhile. And eventually we will get left behind. It likely wouldn't be an immediate thing but gradually over time.

Exactly. The SEC, especially the West, is a damn gauntlet. There is no such thing as treading water anymore. If you aren't getting better, you're by definition moving backwards. That's just the reality of our conference now. You *might* be able to stand still in the East, and even then I wouldn't think it's possible for more than 1-2 seasons, but it's not an option in the West. It's time for our fans to wake up to that reality.