John Butler

[ShotgunDawg]

Just got listening to Rosebowl's "Boneyard" & he said there was a lot of smoke around John Butler being our defensive coordinator.

Butler is currently the DB coach for the Houston Texas & was Bill O'Brien's DC at Penn State.

Coached LB at Minnesota & South Carolina

http://image.lehighvalleylive.com/home/lvlive-media/width620/img/sports_impact/photo/14048041-mmmain.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KFv3D08_4w

[bulldawg28]

Would be a great hire!

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I heard him mention that but I'm skeptical. We're pretty set on having our new DC here when OV start next weekend. If the Texans win tomorrow then that would be impossible.

[ShotgunDawg]

He seems like a cross between Manny & Mullen. Like a Yankee Manny.

Just listening to the guy, he sounds extremely intelligent. My guess is that he'd whip Orgeron's ass in a spelling bee


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyniRx2EUBQ

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Who is Rosebowl?

[MSUDawg99]

Who is Rosebowl?

Steve Robertson

[djaymsu5]

I like the fact that when he was at Penn State he said he liked to have his corners play a lot of man and that's what we need to get back to. No more of this giving the WR 10 yards of cushion. But if Tom Allen is the guy and he gets our D like Ole Miss was last year then I'll be ecstatic. We need to get more physical and play faster.

[mparkerfd20]

Only 1 year as a DC and calling the plays? I'm very skeptical and wouldn't be thrilled with the hire. Of course I can say that about every candidate named on here so far including Allen and Ogre. I don't know whether to be happy or not, so I'm just gonna trust Mullen to get whoever he wants to run the Defense he obviously wants to run.

[ShotgunDawg]

Only 1 year as a DC and calling the plays? I'm very skeptical and wouldn't be thrilled with the hire. Of course I can say that about every candidate named on here so far including Allen and Ogre. I don't know whether to be happy or not, so I'm just gonna trust Mullen to get whoever he wants to run the Defense he obviously wants to run.

I disagree. I'd be thrilled with this hire.

Once someone has the best resume, you can forget getting him unless your willing to play an astronimical amount or are a historical power.

The best chance MSU has to hire an elite DC is to do exactly what we do in player evaluation. Scout them, interview them, & figure out who the next great DC is.

Listening to this guy, he checks a ton of boxes for me. 1. Worked under a good head coach. 2. NFL experience 3. He's an intellectual. You can watch 2 minutes of the 2nd video I posted & realize that this guy knows his stuff & is a thinker. 4. Appears composed & a good communicator.

This guys seems very impressive to me. There's always a risk when you hire someone that doesn't have a stellar resume, but this guys appears to be worth the risk to me.

[IMissJack]

Probably a great coach, but would this be another case of a northern coach that cannot recruit in MS? We have Hev hamstringing us on this front already. I have no idea, but recruiting is what we need.

[ShotgunDawg]

May actually expand our recruiting ground.

Plus, this is the DC position, where according to C34, Engie, etc... you hire an Xs & Os guy & someone that can game plan. This guys fits that mold for me.

[Dallas_Dawg]

The texans ain't winning tomorrow. Mark it down

[defiantdog]

May actually expand our recruiting ground.

Plus, this is the DC position, where according to C34, Engie, etc... you hire an Xs & Os guy & someone that can game plan. This guys fits that mold for me.

I think Steve is reaching here

[mic]

Probably a great coach, but would this be another case of a northern coach that cannot recruit in MS? We have Hev hamstringing us on this front already. I have no idea, but recruiting is what we need.

We recruit Miss just fine..

[preachermatt83]

Probably a great coach, but would this be another case of a northern coach that cannot recruit in MS? We have Hev hamstringing us on this front already. I have no idea, but recruiting is what we need.

Agree

[preachermatt83]

Of all the ppl mentioned on this entire site the only ones that would satisfy me would have been Ogre or Mel (who was a no go from the get go) or Paul Rhoads. I don't want Allen and I sure as crap don't want this guy. So I'm pulling for Rhoades at this point if we can't change Ogres mind or someone else doesn't come up.

[Spiderman]

Of all the ppl mentioned on this entire site the only ones that would satisfy me would have been Ogre or Mel (who was a no go from the get go) or Paul Rhoads. I don't want Allen and I sure as crap don't want this guy. So I'm pulling for Rhoades at this point if we can't change Ogres mind or someone else doesn't come up.

If you want Rhodes over Allen, I can't help you....

[War Machine Dawg]

Probably a great coach, but would this be another case of a northern coach that cannot recruit in MS? We have Hev hamstringing us on this front already. I have no idea, but recruiting is what we need.

Hev doesn't hamstring us because he's a Yankee. He hamstrings us because he's a psychotic asshole.

[TrapGame]

Of all the ppl mentioned on this entire site the only ones that would satisfy me would have been Ogre or Mel (who was a no go from the get go) or Paul Rhoads. I don't want Allen and I sure as crap don't want this guy. So I'm pulling for Rhoades at this point if we can't change Ogres mind or someone else doesn't come up.

Preach you might wanna see Bennie Hinn for an exorcism.

[War Machine Dawg]

Of all the ppl mentioned on this entire site the only ones that would satisfy me would have been Ogre or Mel (who was a no go from the get go) or Paul Rhoads. I don't want Allen and I sure as crap don't want this guy. So I'm pulling for Rhoades at this point if we can't change Ogres mind or someone else doesn't come up.

http://i.imgur.com/oHfd32H.gif
http://i.imgur.com/D4piMcS.gif

[preachermatt83]

Why is everyone so keen on Allen?? He's nothing special.

[BrunswickDawg]

Preach you might wanna see Bennie Hinn for an exorcism.

https://media.giphy.com/media/RZIyewKkGbE4w/giphy.gif

[Really Clark?]

USF national rank stats 2014, 2015:

Scoring: 66, 35. Total Defense: 71, 52. Passing Defense: 52, 85. Rushing Defense: 85, 31. Sacks: 97, 24. Interceptions: 112, 14. Tackles for Loss: 87, 17. Passes Defended: 126, 55. 3rd Down Conversions: 93, 88. Red Zone Conversions: 120, 39.

Overall I think that is a good change from last year to this year. I am bias in the sense at the beginning of the year I posted on here that I thought UNM defense was going to drop this year and a big part of that was because of what I stayed then, Allen leaving. It has been spoken about that he did a lot more game planning or adjustments or both than people realized and he was a sharp defensive mind coming up.

[preachermatt83]

Look at Mannys DStats at LaTech and the look at LaTech stats year before he came.

[Doctor Smug]

there aren't many coaches left that Rosebowl hasn't already connecting to our search. pretty sure he's just pulling names out of thin air at this point.

don't get me wrong, he would be a great hire. but at this point, there are two options:
1) either we really are behind the 8 ball in this hire
2) our guy is currently on staff at either Clemson or Bama

i realize we are in the dead period now, but you have to have this in place before it ends. you can't be wasting valuable recruiting time on searching for a coaching position you've had open for weeks.

[Really Clark?]

Look at Mannys DStats at LaTech and the look at LaTech stats year before he came.

Scoring 61, 39. Total 70,35. Rush 92, 17. Passing 31, 91. Sacks 73, 16. Interceptions 13, 1. Tackles for Loss 69, 2. 3rd Down Conversions 91, 70. Red Zone 91, 22.

It looks like Manny had a little more to work with and the number jumps in several categories are very very similar. Allen with some better increases and Manny with some.

[Prediction? Pain.]

USF national rank stats 2014, 2015:

Scoring: 66, 35. Total Defense: 71, 52. Passing Defense: 52, 85. Rushing Defense: 85, 31. Sacks: 97, 24. Interceptions: 112, 14. Tackles for Loss: 87, 17. Passes Defended: 126, 55. 3rd Down Conversions: 93, 88. Red Zone Conversions: 120, 39.

Overall I think that is a good change from last year to this year. I am bias in the sense at the beginning of the year I posted on here that I thought UNM defense was going to drop this year and a big part of that was because of what I stayed then, Allen leaving. It has been spoken about that he did a lot more game planning or adjustments or both than people realized and he was a sharp defensive mind coming up.

That's pretty dramatic improvement across the board. Even the passing defense, which appears to have declined based on total yards given up, actually improved. In 2014, USF's D faced the fewest pass attempts in the AAC, so it didn't give up tons of passing yards. But the yards-per-attempt stat tells a different story -- in conference games, they were 9th in the AAC in opponents' yards-per-attempt in 2014, but improved to 3rd in 2015 under Allen. (Nationally, they were 84th in 2014 and 64th in 2015.)


Look at Mannys DStats at LaTech and the look at LaTech stats year before he came.

What Diaz did in one year at La Tech was remarkable. But it wasn't just La Tech. He did the same thing at MSU in 2010 and at Texas in 2011. I actually dedicated one of my rambling FWtCT pieces to that very subject at the end of the season. Here (http://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/2015/12/7/9859756/what-happened-to-the-diaz-effect?_ga=1.121945224.2036832986.1412649161) it is, if you're interested. (I wrote it before the bowl game and before he jumped ship to Miami.)

But yeah, fair enough point. Dramatically improving another school's defense in a single year isn't necessarily a guarantee of success. Still, other than the results on the field, there's only so much we can go on to build expectations. Even if recent success elsewhere doesn't make someone a sure thing, it's definitely relevant to the discussion.

[dawgoneyall]

I hear bearsharks everywhere asking "What is this dead period thing?"

[TrapGame]

Why is everyone so keen on Allen?? He's nothing special.

Tom Allen was the architect of OM's defense. You think Wommack's old ass came up with that.

[Reason2succeed]

The texans ain't winning tomorrow. Mark it down

The Cowgirls DEFINITELY aren't winning tomorrow. Yes, I'm sensitive about my Texans.

[engie]

CUSA is < the American as well. The better judge is in adjustedstats IMO...

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

We recruit Miss just fine..

Hughes is gone though

[maroonmania]

Well, looks like Butler will be available in about an hour.

[War Machine Dawg]

Well, looks like Butler will be available in about an hour.

Unfortunately. I was hoping Houston would make us wait a while.

[bulldawg28]

Tom Allen was the architect of OM's defense. You think Wommack's old ass came up with that.

Joe Lee Dunn came up with the 4-2-5 Defense

[Really Clark?]

Joe Lee Dunn came up with the 4-2-5 Defense

No he didn't. Joe Lee was known for the 3-3-5 sets he ran. The 4-2-5 is just the nickle defense invented in the 60's by Jerry Williams to combat the Bears TE, Ditka. George Allen at Chicago then began using it and first coined it the nickel I believe. Shula and Arnsparger used it a bunch. Gary Patterson really took it to another level as a base defense when he was at New Mexico, I believe. And he wasn't saying Allen invented the 4-2-5, he was saying that he developed UNM scheme. Not the actual 4-2-5 defense.

[Coach34]

Lol- the 4-2-5 is a high school defense called the Split-4. It's been run for 50 years

[Really Clark?]

Lol- the 4-2-5 is a high school defense called the Split-4. It's been run for 50 years

I thought the split 4 was with 4 LB and 4 down lineman back then?

[bulldawg28]

No he didn't. Joe Lee was known for the 3-3-5 sets he ran. The 4-2-5 is just the nickle defense invented in the 60's by Jerry Williams to combat the Bears TE, Ditka. George Allen at Chicago then began using it and first coined it the nickel I believe. Shula and Arnsparger used it a bunch. Gary Patterson really took it to another level as a base defense when he was at New Mexico, I believe. And he wasn't saying Allen invented the 4-2-5, he was saying that he developed UNM scheme. Not the actual 4-2-5 defense.

Lol...it wasn't a 3-3-5. When did the 3 LB's ever drop into coverage?

[bulldawg28]

I thought the split 4 was with 4 LB and 4 down lineman back then?

True

[preachermatt83]

I thought the split 4 was with 4 LB and 4 down lineman back then?

It is but the 2 OLB have to cover. In HS it's a 4-4. In College it's 4-2-5.

[bulldawg28]

It is but the 2 OLB have to cover. In HS it's a 4-4. In College it's 4-2-5.

It's different because the college personal generally is different with a better cover guy than a true LB. The highschool defense is built to stop the run, the college is more versatile.

[maroonmania]

Just got listening to Rosebowl's "Boneyard" & he said there was a lot of smoke around John Butler being our defensive coordinator.

Butler is currently the DB coach for the Houston Texas & was Bill O'Brien's DC at Penn State.

Coached LB at Minnesota & South Carolina

http://image.lehighvalleylive.com/home/lvlive-media/width620/img/sports_impact/photo/14048041-mmmain.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KFv3D08_4w

Speaking of Rosebowl, I listened to his show from yesterday and was surprised that he scoffed that we would offer any DC 900k/yr. When nearly half the SEC are paying their top coordinators 7 figures I certainly don't see how its anything to laugh off that we would pay (or at least SHOULD pay) 900k/yr IF that is what it takes to get the right guy. Our DC is the second most important coach on our staff behind Mullen relative to on field coaching so if we can pay our HC over 4 mil I don't see why we couldn't swing 900k if we had to. What's a few hundred extra thousand dollars if it can mean 2 or 3 extra wins in a season that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

[Really Clark?]

Lol...it wasn't a 3-3-5. When did the 3 LB's ever drop into coverage?

His base was a 3-3-5. Rich Rod even came down to learn about it to install it and I think his defenses still uses it. Now Dunn was a mad scientist with it his defenses, some worked, some didn't. But he base was the 3-3-5 for a lot of years. And he didn't develop the 4-2-5.

[bulldawg28]

His base was a 3-3-5. Rich Rod even came down to learn about it to install it and I think his defenses still uses it. Now Dunn was a mad scientist with it his defenses, some worked, some didn't. But he base was the 3-3-5 for a lot of years. And he didn't develop the 4-2-5.

Dude I played under Joe Lee. What your calling 3 lbs isn't true. They were ends that moved around. Joe Lee's defense was so basic it was ridiculous. Team's were confused with movement. It was more like a 5-1-5 defense with responsibilities

[msstate7]

Dude I played under Joe Lee. What your calling 3 lbs isn't true. They were ends that moved around. Joe Lee's defense was so basic it was ridiculous. Team's were confused with movement

Ashley cooper?** He's my favorite defensive dawg ever btw

[bulldawg28]

Ashley cooper?** He's my favorite defensive dawg ever btw

Cooper was indeed the man.

[Really Clark?]

Dude I played under Joe Lee. What your calling 3 lbs isn't true. They were ends that moved around. Joe Lee's defense was so basic it was ridiculous. Team's were confused with movement. It was more like a 5-1-5 defense with responsibilities

I'm not talking about different packages with different personel. I'm talking his base and he is historically credited with the formation of the 3-3-5 pressure that he created at Memphis. He was old school 5-3 back then and had to devise a away to combat them playing USCw in the seasoning opening game. He removed the 2 DE's replaced them with DB's and that is what most consider the birth of the 3-3-5. They won the game btw. He did not develop the 4-2-5 like you originally stated. If you disagree then there are many coaches and historians that disagree with you. Charlie Strong even credits his elements to devise the 33 stack he used at So Car. Yeah he used ends, Dawg backers, etc and blitz and dropped into all kinds of packages. But he was not the inventor of the 4-2-5

[Really Clark?]

Cooper was indeed the man.

Yes he was.

[bulldawg28]

I'm not talking about different packages with different personel. I'm talking his base and he is historically credited with the formation of the 3-3-5 pressure that he created at Memphis. He was old school 5-3 back then and had to devise a away to combat them playing USCw in the seasoning opening game. He removed the 2 DE's replaced them with DB's and that is what most consider the birth of the 3-3-5. They won the game btw. He did not develop the 4-2-5 like you originally stated. If you disagree then there are many coaches and historians that disagree with you. Charlie Strong even credits his elements to devise the 33 stack he used at So Car. Yeah he used ends, Dawg backers, etc and blitz and dropped into all kinds of packages. But he was not the inventor of the 4-2-5

Ok, he didn't invent the defense. However,we didn't run a 3-3-5 .

[HancockCountyDog]

Based on how much money we are making on the TV deal, I see no reason we couldn't pay a great DC 900k.

Why people think this is 1984 is beyond me. We have plenty of money, and one of the great things about firing coaches is that we aren't paying 10 million dollar buyouts every 4 years. Hi Florida.

[Really Clark?]

Ok, he didn't invent the defense. However,we didn't run a 3-3-5 .

Look I know he ran so many different variants of his defenses that there were no true labels you can put on it to the naked eye. Guys coming from all places with odd personnel groupings, etc. But the original design is based off the 3-3-5. The man himself has published and taught much of this. Maybe a bunch of this looks familiar.

http://www.footballxos.com/download/defense/college-defense/2001-Mississippi-State-33-Stack-Defense.pdf

[bulldawg28]

Look I know he ran so many different variants of his defenses that there were no true labels you can put on it to the naked eye. Guys coming from all places with odd personnel groupings, etc. But the original design is based off the 3-3-5. The man himself has published and taught much of this. Maybe a bunch of this looks familiar.

http://www.footballxos.com/download/defense/college-defense/2001-Mississippi-State-33-Stack-Defense.pdf

I know what we ran and the responsibilities of the positions. It was a simple defense with a lot of movement. We ran 3 coverages....man...man free..and cover 0. We lined up crazy and the majority of the time the players had the freedom to move around as long as you got to your destination.

[Really Clark?]

I know what we ran and the responsibilities of the positions. It was a simple defense with a lot of movement. We ran 3 coverages....man...man free..and cover 0. We lined up crazy and the majority of the time the players had the freedom to move around as long as you got to your destination.

No doubt. Bet it is one of the most fun defenses to play in. And with him calling all kinds of blitz's made it even more so. Loved watching him walk all 11 standing up on the line to blow a QB's mind. But this is the State defensive playbook from 2000-2001. On the first page it's labeled as the 3-3-5/33 Stack defense. Now obviously you had all kinds of fronts including 4-3, 5-2, 4-2, etc. Like all do. And like you said he allowed for so much movement, gave y'all the freedom to do much pre-snap.

[engie]

Was responsible for the worst defense at Penn St in his one season that they've had in the last 4. Not really high on him...