Dudy Noble is the 10th best baseball stadium in the SEC...

[Sandman14]

but 2nd in the nation.

The sky is falling. Someone do something before the baseball program collapses. We are gonna screw around and sign a top 5 class this year if this BS keeps up.

http://www.collegebaseballdaily.com/tag/top-10-college-baseball-stadiums/

[maroonmania]

Wow, how many times will you ever see this quote in a national article:

"Not only is Starkville a wonderful place to be..."

Stick that one in your pipe and smoke it Pat Forde. Anyway, reading the article, it sort of sounds more like they are rating the atmosphere and gameday experience than they are the actual stadium facility itself. For that part, when our team is doing well, we are probably at least a co-number one with LSU.

Late edit: Oh well, upon relooking the author of the article is apparently an MSU graduate.

[Todd4State]

I just don't understand our fans who don't want us to have something as nice as we possibly can have it.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

It is 10th "nicest" in sec. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise. Doesnt mean it isnt the best place in the country to watch a game.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Just reading over the list...Penn State at number 10?

[messageboardsuperhero]

Oh lord, not this again. Most logical people know we need to replace our current structure with a new grandstand (that extends to the foul poles), new pressbox, new skyboxes, etc.

[Sandman14]

What we "need" is lipstick on this pig and the addition of new structures down right and left field line where this "premium seating" can be put in.

Then one day down the road the right and left field structures will be fine and we can replace the grandstand, if ever.

But really we don't "need" anything. It's already one of the all around best, taking everything into account. Certainly much better than the little shit-box Auburn plays in, which some say is a better facility than what we have. They might put in a couple hundred lazy boy recliners for their 25 baseball fans, and that would be super "nice." But it wouldn't mean a damn thing to me.

Most "logical people" can open their eyes and look at what goes on and know that the grief the admin is getting about tearing shit down is ridiculous.

Everyone wants nice stuff. The nicest possible stuff. But the football program isn't ripping down the home side of the stadium because it's old and could be done better. Instead they are building a new structure in the end zone.

[messageboardsuperhero]

We didn't "need" to expand the football stadium. We didn't "need" to build a new football operations facility. It sure as hell is good to have nice stuff though, especially if there is a demand for something nice (as there was for football and there is for baseball).

You said it yourself: adding something else down to the foul poles would be lipstick on a pig. There are sightline issues, and it would probably be cheaper and less messy in the long-run to fix it all at once, rather than to start on the outside and work our way back in.

[CBDaily]

Just reading over the list...Penn State at number 10?

Have you looked at Penn State's facility?

Here is a photo gallery and I believe you will agree

http://www.gopsusports.com/view.gal?id=13818

[engie]

Just reading over the list...Penn State at number 10?

Brand new stadium...

[DiligenceDawg]

Everyone wants nice stuff. The nicest possible stuff. But the football program isn't ripping down the home side of the stadium because it's old and could be done better. Instead they are building a new structure in the end zone.

We would have the nicest stadium on earth if we pumped into it what the football program is pumping into the endzone.

This is absolutely apples and oranges. For a fraction of the cost it would take to rebuild the football stadium like you mention, we can start from scratch and have an absolutely top tier baseball stadium.


Why anyone would argue that I don't know. As far as where the money would come from... If we got it to build a new football locker room and gym facility we can find it to build a dang baseball stadium.

[engie]

What we "need" is lipstick on this pig and the addition of new structures down right and left field line where this "premium seating" can be put in.
Premium seating isn't premium when you can't see and/or get a crick in your neck. It's just a fancy looking pain in the ass.


Then one day down the road the right and left field structures will be fine and we can replace the grandstand, if ever.
Yep -- already gonna have the oldest stadium in the west by about 20 years -- just leave it how it is!!1!1


But really we don't "need" anything.
You must like 6th in the division? That's where we're headed. DO you understand the implications TO OUR baseball program that Alabama getting serious about baseball will have? You don't think them spending $35 mil implies that they care and want to win? Recruiting Alabama(and taking guys those fools want because WE are the baseball school while they "don't care" has been the lifeblood of our program for years). That time is coming to an end. Unless, of course, we can CONTINUE on the path of reminding everyone that when it comes to college baseball, we are the Jones's. Having the worst/2nd worst stadium in the division DOES NOT send that message.


It's already one of the all around best, taking everything into account.
How? Please quantify. What makes it so great?
Concessions? Horrible.
Design? Horrible.
Amenities? Average.

The people? Oh -- you mean the same ones that are going to show up regardless? What about the people that never come to another MSU game because they got stuck out in the left field and right field bleachers?
The left field lounge? Oh -- you mean the thing that no one wants to change anyway?


Certainly much better than the little shit-box Auburn plays in, which some say is a better facility than what we have.
The baseball genius is oozing from you right now** You've obviously been there**

Samford Stadium-Hitchcock Field at Plainsman Park was voted the best collegiate baseball facility in the country by Baseball America prior to the 2003 season.
http://www.auburntigers.com/facilities/aub-facilities-basebl.html


They might put in a couple hundred lazy boy recliners for their 25 baseball fans, and that would be super "nice." But it wouldn't mean a damn thing to me.
All that you've made clear you care about is arguing with peope. Being the best in the sport we've got a legit chance to win a title in? Nope. Fixing the problems with Dudy Noble? Nope. Just do a little bit here and there -- no need to go all out and be the Jones's. Who cares if we have more baseball money than everyone in the conference sans LSU?**


Most "logical people" can open their eyes and look at what goes on and know that the grief the admin is getting about tearing shit down is ridiculous.
Larry Templeton called himself LOGICAL as well. We CERTAINLY miss his leadership at MSU**


But the football program isn't ripping down the home side of the stadium because it's old and could be done better.
Shows you have no semblance of an idea about the master plan in place for football at MSU. The very NEXT thing on the agenda is renovating the east side like we just did the west side.

But hey, why spend that extra $20 million renovating the west side anyway? After all -- you thought it was just fine as is**


Instead they are building a new structure in the end zone.
Exactly right. Building a NEW structure in the end zone. Given your general point of view, I can't believe you support that "waste of unnecessary" money. We could have just extended the bleachers to meet the grandstands and horseshoed it for $10 mil or less and accomplished the same purpose!!1!1 See!1! Saved $65 mil and stayed in the black!!1!1

[engie]

Why anyone would argue that I don't know. As far as where the money would come from... If we got it to build a new football locker room and gym facility we can find it to build a dang baseball stadium.

Bingo... Think I'm giving 2/3 of the same sum of money to put lipstick on a pig that I'd give to build world-class?

Money is NOT an issue for MSU baseball. Fact is, we're COSTING OURSELVES money by keeping Dudy Noble in it's current format.

[TopDog58]

There's a difference between the stadium and the atmosphere. MSU baseball gets praise for the atmosphere of the LFL and filling the place up on Super Bulldog Weekend and in regionals. The rest of the time the grandstand is half full and the bleachers are nearly empty because nobody wants to watch the game from there.

It still doesn't cover up the fact that Dudy Noble is outdated, damn near ancient when compared to the minor league style parks at Arkansas, South Carolina, A&M and LSU.

Dudy Noble is kinda like that ridiculous looking thing they put on the top of Vaught Hemingway. They took the cheap ass route to try and expand something and now they've got an ugly wart on their stadium that prevents them from ever expanding that side of the stadium. You keep putting lipstick on that pig and it just looks more and more ugly.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Bingo... Think I'm giving 2/3 of the same sum of money to put lipstick on a pig that I'd give to build world-class?

Money is NOT an issue for MSU baseball. Fact is, we're COSTING OURSELVES money by keeping Dudy Noble in it's current format.

Exactly. A new grandstand structure (with all the additional premium seating and demand for season tickets) would pay for itself. In fact, a new grandstand would make us a good bit of money in the future.

We are leaving so much money on the table right now with the lack of good premium seating in Dudy Noble right now.

[messageboardsuperhero]

There's a difference between the stadium and the atmosphere. MSU baseball gets praise for the atmosphere of the LFL and filling the place up on Super Bulldog Weekend and in regionals. The rest of the time the grandstand is half full and the bleachers are nearly empty because nobody wants to watch the game from there.

It still doesn't cover up the fact that Dudy Noble is outdated, damn near ancient when compared to the minor league style parks at Arkansas, South Carolina, A&M and LSU.

Dudy Noble is kinda like that ridiculous looking thing they put on the top of Vaught Hemingway. They took the cheap ass route to try and expand something and now they've got an ugly wart on their stadium that prevents them from ever expanding that side of the stadium. You keep putting lipstick on that pig and it just looks more and more ugly.

Amen.

[engie]

Exactly. A new grandstand structure (with all the additional premium seating and demand for season tickets) would pay for itself. In fact, a new grandstand would make us a good bit of money in the future.

We are leaving so much money on the table right now with the lack of good premium seating in Dudy Noble right now.

Exactly.

[Sandman14]

Can we please tear down the damn home side of the football stadium? Shit is the worst in the SEC west. It will pay for itself if we will just tear that bitch down and build a replica of Alabama's football stadium.

We are actually costing ourselves money by building a new structure in the endzone and leaving the pathetic amenities in the home side there. Needs to be demolished immediately.

[engie]

Can we please tear down the damn home side of the football stadium? Shit is the worst in the SEC west. It will pay for itself if we will just tear that bitch down and build a replica of Alabama's football stadium.

We are actually costing ourselves money by building a new structure in the endzone and leaving the pathetic amenities in the home side there. Needs to be demolished immediately.

Good thing you are the logical one**

[TopDog58]

Can we please tear down the damn home side of the football stadium? Shit is the worst in the SEC west. It will pay for itself if we will just tear that bitch down and build a replica of Alabama's football stadium.

We are actually costing ourselves money by building a new structure in the endzone and leaving the pathetic amenities in the home side there. Needs to be demolished immediately.

Besides Baylor and Minnesota moving back to their campuses, who in the last half century has built a brand new football stadium? Damn sure nobody in the SEC. Nice argument there. And way off base, since you ignore the fact that we have already gutted the "home" side of the stadium.

What happens when you gut the grandstand of DNF? Are we going to add a SECOND concession stand. Well hell, we just moved up to 5th nicest in the SEC West!!!!

[messageboardsuperhero]

We basically are completely remaking the inside of the West side right now, but damnit there's a difference between what our needs were in football and what they are in baseball. If there was a way to renovate the Dudy-Noble grandstand/bleachers to make it the best (which is what we can afford in baseball but not football), then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately that's just not the case, as the design of the grandstand will not allow for additional seating with good sightlines. Can't you see that? Don't act like people are just freaking out and screaming "Tear that mother to the ground!!!1!!1" like a bunch of village idiots with pitchforks; there are obvious ****ing reasons that we should just start over. And the benefits of starting over clearly outweigh the costs.

Everyone understands that Dudy-Noble has a great atmosphere, but that atmosphere does not exist in the concrete of some outdated grandstand from the 80s. It's in the people (who will still be there whether or not we put in a new grandstand) and it's in the LFL (which nobody wants to mess with). I know some LSU fans who said the same thing about the great atmosphere in Old Alex Box, but I damn sure don't hear them bitching now. Why? Because the atmosphere is still great in the New Alex Box too, AND they get to have a nice stadium as well. An environment like LSU or State baseball is in the people, not the structure of the grandstand. If anything, the atmosphere in a new stadium would be better, since nobody will have to sit in the God awful bleachers and everyone can enjoy it.

There's nothing structurally wrong with the West side of the football stadium, it just needed to be updated. You can't update Dudy-Noble without there being problems. It's just that simple. And comparatively speaking, starting over wouldn't be that much more expensive, and with the money we have in baseball, it's worth the investment. Nobody wants to touch the LFL or the MSU baseball tradition, so just chill out.

[TopDog58]

We basically are completely remaking the inside of the West side right now, but damnit there's a difference between what our needs were in football and what they are in baseball. If there was a way to renovate the Dudy-Noble grandstand/bleachers to make it the best (which is what we can afford in baseball but not football), then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately that's just not the case, as the design of the grandstand will not allow for additional seating with good sightlines. Can't you see that? Don't act like people are just freaking out and screaming "Tear that mother to the ground!!!1!!1" like a bunch of village idiots with pitchforks; there are obvious ****ing reasons that we should just start over. And the benefits of starting over clearly outweigh the costs.

Everyone understands that Dudy-Noble has a great atmosphere, but that atmosphere does not exist in the concrete of some outdated grandstand from the 80s. It's in the people (those who fill half the grandstand, who will still be there whether or not we put in a new grandstand) and it's in the LFL (which nobody wants to mess with). I know some LSU fans who said the same thing about the great atmosphere in Old Alex Box, but I damn sure don't hear them bitching now. Why? Because the atmosphere is still great in the New Alex Box too, AND they get to have a nice stadium as well. An environment like LSU or State baseball is in the people, not the structure of the grandstand. If anything, the atmosphere in a new stadium would be better, since nobody will have to sit in the God awful bleachers and everyone can enjoy it.

There's nothing structurally wrong with the West side of the football stadium, it just needed to be updated. You can't update Dudy-Noble without there being problems. It's just that simple. And comparatively speaking, starting over wouldn't be that much more expensive, and with the money we have in baseball, it's worth the investment. Nobody wants to touch the LFL or the MSU baseball tradition, so just chill out.

Fixed

[CadaverDawg]

Can we please tear down the damn home side of the football stadium? Shit is the worst in the SEC west. It will pay for itself if we will just tear that bitch down and build a replica of Alabama's football stadium.

We are actually costing ourselves money by building a new structure in the endzone and leaving the pathetic amenities in the home side there. Needs to be demolished immediately.

Are you a real human being? Or are you just hoping to have the EliteDawgs version of DDDY named after you?

I think I could probably just bang my face into my keyboard and make more logical posts than you do.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Does anyone think we'll ever get back to drawing crowds like we did in the 1980's? I don't see it happening under any circumstances.

[War Machine Dawg]

We basically are completely remaking the inside of the West side right now, but damnit there's a difference between what our needs were in football and what they are in baseball. If there was a way to renovate the Dudy-Noble grandstand/bleachers to make it the best (which is what we can afford in baseball but not football), then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately that's just not the case, as the design of the grandstand will not allow for additional seating with good sightlines. Can't you see that? Don't act like people are just freaking out and screaming "Tear that mother to the ground!!!1!!1" like a bunch of village idiots with pitchforks; there are obvious ****ing reasons that we should just start over. And the benefits of starting over clearly outweigh the costs.

Everyone understands that Dudy-Noble has a great atmosphere, but that atmosphere does not exist in the concrete of some outdated grandstand from the 80s. It's in the people (who will still be there whether or not we put in a new grandstand) and it's in the LFL (which nobody wants to mess with). I know some LSU fans who said the same thing about the great atmosphere in Old Alex Box, but I damn sure don't hear them bitching now. Why? Because the atmosphere is still great in the New Alex Box too, AND they get to have a nice stadium as well. An environment like LSU or State baseball is in the people, not the structure of the grandstand. If anything, the atmosphere in a new stadium would be better, since nobody will have to sit in the God awful bleachers and everyone can enjoy it.

There's nothing structurally wrong with the West side of the football stadium, it just needed to be updated. You can't update Dudy-Noble without there being problems. It's just that simple. And comparatively speaking, starting over wouldn't be that much more expensive, and with the money we have in baseball, it's worth the investment. Nobody wants to touch the LFL or the MSU baseball tradition, so just chill out.

This guy gets it. Nail on the head. I also agree with the point from earlier about the current grandstand costing us money, especially with concessions. A new stadium fixes all the problems and makes the statement we ARE (and should be) the Joneses of college baseball. How anyone refuses to get that is beyond me. You have to TRY to be that damn stupid.

[engie]

Does anyone think we'll ever get back to drawing crowds like we did in the 1980's? I don't see it happening under any circumstances.

Absolutely. Highly ranked consistently like I mostly expect to be going forward? No doubt. It's already been conclusively and repeatedly proven that our fanbase shows up like no(well, one) other when we're good -- or when we're playing for something. The ball is JUST starting to roll with the fans...

One reason we don't draw like we did is because we make it a MISERABLE experience for a significant portion of our fanbase and practically all of the walk-up fans and drive-up alumni by making them sit in the ridiculous bleachers.

That -- and we've got lifetime seats that fill up twice/yr for SBW and regional play and remain empty otherwise. So, while these fans are massaging their necks in the bleachers, they've got to be tortured by pretty, empty maroon seats for 5 innings.

Also needs a dedicated student section somewhere in the outfield -- where average non-Greek students can go to fraternize...

Bare minimum in the IMMEDIATE sense, we need to make the grandstand general admission(like the outfield and bleachers) for the whole season other than the really big weekends. "The Dudes" is a step in the right direction. They just need to make it accessible for all the other fans too. Maybe tag the seats of the season ticket holders that show up to > 50% of games or whatever...

[messageboardsuperhero]

Another point I'd like to make is this: Why was the current grandstand even built in the first place?

The answer is so that we could have at least one of, if not the best and nicest baseball stadiums in the SEC and in America. That was and should always be the goal when it comes to our baseball facilities, but that is just simply not where we are at right now. The grandstand has served it's purpose and done well, but for us to more forward, we need to start over. We can't reach that goal ever again with the way the grandstand is currently structured, with the enclosed concourse and bad sightlines. There are simply too many outdated designs. If we want to continue to honor this goal, we have no choice but to start over with a new grandstand.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Another point I'd like to make is this: Why was the current grandstand even built in the first place?

The answer is so that we could have at least one of, if not the best and nicest baseball stadiums in the SEC and in America. That was and should always be the goal when it comes to our baseball facilities, but that is just simply not where we are at right now. The grandstand has served it's purpose and done well, but for us to more forward, we need to start over. We can't reach that goal ever again with the way the grandstand is currently structured, with the enclosed concourse and bad sightlines. There are simply too many outdated designs. If we want to continue to honor this goal, we have no choice but to start over with a new grandstand.

Are they looking at possibly relocating the stadium? All of the shit surrounding the stadium makes it hard to build new or renovate the grandstands. Maybe swap locations with the practice fields and current softball field and build there.

[Sandman14]

great now we are talking about relocating the stadium. makes perfect sense. maybe they will put it in west point.

just take comfort knowing that however much sense you think you are making, your view will not carry the day. mine will. they are not going to tear down the grandstand. not any time within the next 5 years anyway. Probably not within the next 10.

so gripe all you want. call me an idiot all you want. just know I'm right and you are wrong about what's going to happen, and it's going to happen that way because that's what makes the most sense, despite our pros on here that travel the globe analyzing amateur baseball stadiums.

I'd love to be wrong and hear that we are going to drop $30MM tearing down the field and rebuilding an alex box-esque stadium. But that's just not going to happen.

[Goat Holder]

Money is NOT an issue for MSU baseball.

Just curious, but where do you get this ridiculous notion? Are you smoking crack? Do you think that money is no object to us simply because we have a bunch of fans who pay $10 a ticket? Over the course of the year, 40 home games at $10 a ticket for 6,000 seats is like 2.4 million. Then subtract out whatever the rest of the country does and you have the difference. It ain't that much. Obviously those are general numbers, without the skyboxes and outfield, etc. The real money is raised with that football expansion being constructed right now.

Money is ALWAYS an issue with MSU sports. We may or may not need a new stadium, but money is a HUGE issue.

Edit: I'll admit if I'm wrong, and I'd like to know if we have some other pot of money to dive into. Dugout Club isn't enough. And yes, we get money from TV deals and all but so does everyone else. It's not exclusive to baseball.

[engie]

great now we are talking about relocating the stadium. makes perfect sense. maybe they will put it in west point.
Straw man into ridiculousness. Might as well be a concession of defeat.


just take comfort knowing that however much sense you think you are making, your view will not carry the day. mine will. they are not going to tear down the grandstand. not any time within the next 5 years anyway. Probably not within the next 10.
Got a regular prophet on our hands here. Alex Box Stadium will never be replaced!!1!1 Yankee Stadium irreplaceable!1! Leave Busch Stadium alone!!1!1 Sarge Frye is the home of the Gamecocks!!1!1


so gripe all you want. call me an idiot all you want. just know I'm right and you are wrong about what's going to happen, and it's going to happen that way because that's what makes the most sense, despite our pros on here that travel the globe analyzing amateur baseball stadiums.

Nice analogy, LT. You're really convincing everyone. How does it make the most sense? Hell, it made the most sense to just add more bleachers in our endzone and horseshoe it that way!!1!1 Why did we NEED to spend $75 million on football?!/1 Why did we spend $25 mil on a football complex when the previous football ops building was less than a year old?!/? Surely, it was fine as is!!1!1


I'd love to be wrong and hear that we are going to drop $30MM tearing down the field and rebuilding an alex box-esque stadium. But that's just not going to happen.
How exactly how do you know it isn't going to happen? Other than being a prophet, of course?

Know what I know? That our fans WILL NOT STAND for being second best in Mississippi -- and we don't much like having Alabama be better than us either. Call it inferiority complex or whatever. This is OUR SPORT -- and we're going to be the Jones's. When Bama builds a f'n PALACE 80 miles up the road for $35 million, we will have NO CHOICE but to retaliate to that. Or risk losing the Alabama pipeline which has become the lifeblood of our baseball program. By all means, continue your Polkish mindset though applying faux limitations to what we are and what we can do...

Here's what else I know. There is NO quicker way to get run out of Starkville than for Stricklin to botch and fail to satisfy on this Dudy Noble situation. That's why he's being so damn cautious about it.

[Sandman14]

I see lots of caps lock issues.

The good thing is that we will know who is right about this before long. They won't wait too long to do something. And if I were a gambling man, I'd drop some heavy coin on the announcement not including the tear down of the grandstand.

Stricklin is already 0 for 1 in major decisions. The handling of the basketball coaching situation was extremely awkward and embarrassing. History may prove that Rick Ray is the right man, but it was a total botch job the way it all went down.

Pretty sure the football expansion was already in the works when Stricklin took over, but if not, I'll give him some cred on that one...

All that to say, Stricklin botching major decisions would not be surprising. But again, I don't think that a renovation plan that does not include tearing down our facilities and starting fresh would necessarily be a botch job. I'd like to see a two-tiered plan that includes upgrades now and then more later. I'm just not sold on tearing down everything.

I tell you what, Auburn is raping us right now with their palace up the road. We can't pry any damn recruits out of there with that plush accommodation. Bama will surely do the same.

When is UGA building their $50MM stadium in preparation for their ascension to the apex of college baseball? I figured, from what you said awhile back, that we'd have an announcement on that. Did I miss that?

[Sandman14]

oh and another thing: weren't you in the camp that said MSU was not a top 10 college baseball coaching job? Sure seems like one to me... But really UGA is a much more appealing place to be about now...

and don't tell me you argued against me when I said John Cohen was a top 5 college baseball coach back before we blew up...or was that just Will James that scoffed at me...

I'm such a damn idiot. Please excuse me for my ignorance.

[engie]

I'm such a damn idiot. Please excuse me for my ignorance.

Beyond all the psychobabble and the clarity that you just like to argue for the sake of arguing, I'm glad we finally agree on something. Bringing up old dead horses = another example desperately grasping at straws.

Now, you should go start another ridiculously hyperbolic thread trolling the board in which zero people agree with you..

[War Machine Dawg]

I see lots of caps lock issues.

The good thing is that we will know who is right about this before long. They won't wait too long to do something. And if I were a gambling man, I'd drop some heavy coin on the announcement not including the tear down of the grandstand.

Stricklin is already 0 for 1 in major decisions. The handling of the basketball coaching situation was extremely awkward and embarrassing. History may prove that Rick Ray is the right man, but it was a total botch job the way it all went down.

Pretty sure the football expansion was already in the works when Stricklin took over, but if not, I'll give him some cred on that one...

All that to say, Stricklin botching major decisions would not be surprising. But again, I don't think that a renovation plan that does not include tearing down our facilities and starting fresh would necessarily be a botch job. I'd like to see a two-tiered plan that includes upgrades now and then more later. I'm just not sold on tearing down everything.

I tell you what, Auburn is raping us right now with their palace up the road. We can't pry any damn recruits out of there with that plush accommodation. Bama will surely do the same.

When is UGA building their $50MM stadium in preparation for their ascension to the apex of college baseball? I figured, from what you said awhile back, that we'd have an announcement on that. Did I miss that?

You have got to be a troll. There's no way someone is really this dumb.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Does anyone think we'll ever get back to drawing crowds like we did in the 1980's? I don't see it happening under any circumstances.

Never

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Money is an issue. Trust me. Even for us at baseball.

[Todd4State]

Speaking as a Cardinals fan that actually goes to games- I remember the old Busch Stadium. The atmosphere and the crowds were always good except for maybe 1990-1995 when Auggie Busch's son owned the team and used it as a tax write off and really didn't give a crap. LOTS of big moments at Busch Stadium II- Bob Gibson 18 K World Series game, Ozzie Smith hitting his Go Crazy Folks home run, McGwire, Pujols, etc. The definitely had a great atmosphere- but I don't think very many people would have listed Busch II as one of the nicest in the game. Even the most diehard Cardinals fan. In fact a lot of baseball people hated Busch II because it was the model cookie cutter ballpark which a lot of purists hated at the time.

In fact, when the new owners bought the team, one of the first things that they did was put lipstick on a pig and tried to make it more like a baseball only stadium- tore out the artificial turf and put in grass, put up some historical type things in the outfield with championships- and honestly it still didn't look that great.

When Busch III was being built or they were unveiling plans- a lot of people were like, "why are we doing this?" I actually wondered why they did the massive renovations and then a few years later build a brand new ballpark- THAT was a waste of money and something we want to avoid.

But now that Busch III is open- I don't think you will find very many if any Cardinals fans that miss the old Busch II. The atmosphere to me is actually a LOT better than it ever was to be honest. Probably because people are closer to the action and more comfortable. The magic hasn't left because the players are the ones that make the magic happen- not the brick. See the 2006 and 2011 World Series Championships which had a lot of great moments with those two seasons alone. Big Mac Land is still there, and the Stan Musial statue is still there- just like we would keep the Left Field Lounge.

I think if we rebuilt the grandstand at MSU, we would have a similar response as a fan base. All that stuff that some people think is trivial- it matters when you add it all up.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Speaking as a Cardinals fan that actually goes to games- I remember the old Busch Stadium. The atmosphere and the crowds were always good except for maybe 1990-1995 when Auggie Busch's son owned the team and used it as a tax write off and really didn't give a crap. LOTS of big moments at Busch Stadium II- Bob Gibson 18 K World Series game, Ozzie Smith hitting his Go Crazy Folks home run, McGwire, Pujols, etc. The definitely had a great atmosphere- but I don't think very many people would have listed Busch II as one of the nicest in the game. Even the most diehard Cardinals fan. In fact a lot of baseball people hated Busch II because it was the model cookie cutter ballpark which a lot of purists hated at the time.

In fact, when the new owners bought the team, one of the first things that they did was put lipstick on a pig and tried to make it more like a baseball only stadium- tore out the artificial turf and put in grass, put up some historical type things in the outfield with championships- and honestly it still didn't look that great.

When Busch III was being built or they were unveiling plans- a lot of people were like, "why are we doing this?" I actually wondered why they did the massive renovations and then a few years later build a brand new ballpark- THAT was a waste of money and something we want to avoid.

But now that Busch III is open- I don't think you will find very many if any Cardinals fans that miss the old Busch II. The atmosphere to me is actually a LOT better than it ever was to be honest. Probably because people are closer to the action and more comfortable. The magic hasn't left because the players are the ones that make the magic happen- not the brick. See the 2006 and 2011 World Series Championships which had a lot of great moments with those two seasons alone. Big Mac Land is still there, and the Stan Musial statue is still there- just like we would keep the Left Field Lounge.

I think if we rebuilt the grandstand at MSU, we would have a similar response as a fan base. All that stuff that some people think is trivial- it matters when you add it all up.

This is a great point too. Why spend tons of money on something that has problems and will have to be replaced at some point anyway? Obviously we all want to do this in the most cost conscious way, so wouldn't that just be to start over and do it all at once? Building a new grandstand at once would be cheaper in the long run than a two phase project, like what Sandman is talking about.

I just don't understand Sandman's idea of putting something new down the line before fixing the current grandstand. It makes no sense, and I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not. I've never heard of anyone renovating a stadium by starting on the outside with plans to work back into the inside. You start with a base and expand around it; that's why they call them "stadium expansions". Right now, our base is outdated and there's nothing we can do about that but start over. Hell, with the way the current grandstand is designed, those people in that new structure down the line won't be able to see anyway unless they do some seriously invasive design work... And then, how do you build back into something that was designed around a completely different type of structure? Building around what we have now would be totally pointless in the long run.

[Sandman14]

I'm truly hopeful we can do something similar to what LSU did. It would be incredible. I just don't think it will happen.

I understand MSU is a baseball school and we have the fan support and tradition, but I also understand that in this state, we don't have the resources that LSU has. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a $25MM or more job being announced....and that's what it will take, right?

My take on it, however, is that it's not absolutely necessary. If we were working with Bama's facilities, then it would be necessary.

I'm not a contractor, but it seems to me you could do alot to improve things and leave the door open for further improvements in future without being wasteful.

As an aside, some folks got serious little man syndrome.

[engie]

This is a great point too. Why spend tons of money on something that has problems and will have to be replaced at some point anyway? Obviously we all want to do this in the most cost conscious way, so wouldn't that just be to start over and do it all at once? Building a new grandstand at once would be cheaper in the long run than a two phase project, like what Sandman is talking about.

Exactly. That's what makes it clear he's either totally clueless or just trolling.

The "woe is me" -- let's spend $15-20mil renovating now -- to then turn around and talk about tearing it down in 5-10 years makes it clear that his position is flying by the seat of it's pants without any serious logistical thought. $15-20 mil now + $35-40 5-10 yrs down the road costs FAR more money than $30-35 mil now.

[Sandman14]

I think your opinion on this is respectable and I'm hopeful we drop $30MM on baseball. MSU baseball is my favorite sport in the world.

But you are often not willing open your mind to other realities. When you are right, you are right. But, being a human, you are wrong sometimes. When this happens...like when you were ranting so hard about UGA being the best baseball school in the country, it seems silly.

I'll just say this: if it was as crystal clear as you guys make it, seems to me it would already be announced. I don't think it's as clear as you want to believe. In fact, I think there is a higher chance they won't tear down the grandstand in the next 5 years that that they will.

All these snips and being dumb and making no sense and blah blah blah...you should hope you are right because if we don't build a $30MM stadium, which would mean it's not nearly as clear as you contend, then I'm going to remind you about it for a long time...just like the UGA deal that you got so personal on.

It's fair to agree to disagree. The point of this thread was to show a recent article noting that what we currently have in place constitutes the second best in the country, all in all. So when you are making decisions on dropping $30MM that you don't have, that is a factor. Bama is not on that list. So the analysis is different for them. Plus they have more money.

[engie]

I'm truly hopeful we can do something similar to what LSU did. It would be incredible. I just don't think it will happen.
You've made that clear -- and if you would say it like you did here with the "I just don't think it will happen", no one would argue with you. Instead you start a troll thread and say "it won't happen -- see I'm right -- and the rest of you are Idiots!!!" and call in the wolves on your self.


I understand MSU is a baseball school and we have the fan support and tradition, but I also understand that in this state, we don't have the resources that LSU has.
This is what I don't understand. What does "this state" have to do with it? Just a "poor ole MSU" thing? You keep saying that. Do you think LSU built Alex Box as a charity case? Just for fun because they had the money? If that was the case, why aren't teams spending $20mil+ on their softball complexes?

The real reason LSU built that park is because they did a longterm logistics study that said that'd make MORE money longterm by spending the $$ up front on a new facility given the great increase in premium opportunities, the increase in vending opportunities, and the overall increase in a couple thousand seats allowing for higher season ticket sales by a few thousand. So, NEW Alex Box is paying for itself the exact same way Carolina Stadium and Baum are paying for themselves.


I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a $25MM or more job being announced....and that's what it will take, right?
Why do you think an announcement is imminent right now? Stricklin has talked about DNF improvements like it was just over the horizon for 2 years now -- but he hasn't said a WORD since the regionals and CWS. The reason for that is because the goalposts have moved among our big money people with what they want to do there. Instead of being an afterthought, DNF is back in the very front of everyone's minds now after the regionals there -- and Stricklin's having to change his plans for better or worse. That's why there hasn't been a peep out of our athletics department about it since the run.

Fact is, to "renovate" Dudy Noble in an appreciative way, we're spending over half of what it would cost to build new. The Swayze renovation was $20 mil. The Blue Bell renovation was more expensive than that. End of the day, they both have beautiful, but outdated ballparks with closed concourses.
Would you spend $50k fixing a worn out 85 corvette when you could get a new one for $80k? That's the analogy in play here...


My take on it, however, is that it's not absolutely necessary. If we were working with Bama's facilities, then it would be necessary.
Why is it necessary that Bama tears down, but not us? They've actually got a better "base" to expand of than we do.
http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20130809-lzwn-48kb.jpg
http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20130809-r8mk-38kb.jpg


I'm not a contractor, but it seems to me you could do alot to improve things and leave the door open for further improvements in future without being wasteful.
The most fiscally responsible thing for us to do is tear down and build new right now while interest rates are at an all time low. You can spend $20 mil at Dudy Noble so fast it would blow your mind and still not have anything of note -- and still be 5th best in the division if not worse when sitting down the foul lines.


As an aside, some folks got serious little man syndrome.
Hope you are wearing rubber soled shoes because lightning is headed your way**

[HereComesTheSpiral]

This is a great point too. Why spend tons of money on something that has problems and will have to be replaced at some point anyway? Obviously we all want to do this in the most cost conscious way, so wouldn't that just be to start over and do it all at once? Building a new grandstand at once would be cheaper in the long run than a two phase project, like what Sandman is talking about.

I just don't understand Sandman's idea of putting something new down the line before fixing the current grandstand. It makes no sense, and I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not. I've never heard of anyone renovating a stadium by starting on the outside with plans to work back into the inside. You start with a base and expand around it; that's why they call them "stadium expansions". Right now, our base is outdated and there's nothing we can do about that but start over. Hell, with the way the current grandstand is designed, those people in that new structure down the line won't be able to see anyway unless they do some seriously invasive design work... And then, how do you build back into something that was designed around a completely different type of structure? Building around what we have now would be totally pointless in the long run.

This guy gets it. In my opinion, it would be cheaper and quicker to demo everything out and build new. The grandstands that are in place are so ****ed up that correcting the sight line issues would be unbelievably expensive. Expanding the grand stands down the line will only compound the problem. Next point, why make any improvements to the exterior of the stadium when The Hump covers it up. Like others are saying, why spend $20MM renovating a 30 year old structure when you can spend 30 and solve all the issues at the beginning.

[Sandman14]

What I would like to do is spend $100MM and have the grandstand coated in platinum.

I think that the decision makers are definitely trying to be fiscally responsible. But I think the fact that they are doing so is weighing in favor of not spending $25MM.

I never called anyone an idiot.

Blue Bell and Swayze are two of the nicer parks in the nation, right? Top 5 or so?

[engie]

I think your opinion on this is respectable and I'm hopeful we drop $30MM on baseball. MSU baseball is my favorite sport in the world.
Ok -- so why are you wasting your time arguing this and basically being counterproductive to the GOAL at hand? Have you seen where any of us have come out and stated that "we are building a brand new baseball facility"? No. You haven't. What you are seeing here is a continued attempt to unify the fanbase behind the problems that Dudy Noble has that can't be easily addressed by spending a few dollars on a facade and taking seats down the lines. There is MOTIVE to what we're doing -- that you are either purposefully trying to bog down -- or not smart enough to realize you are doing it.


But you are often not willing open your mind to other realities. When you are right, you are right. But, being a human, you are wrong sometimes.
What other realities man? The rest of us have spent 100 TIMES the amount of time thinking about the logistics of Dudy Noble that you have. That's clear. That's why we have no patience for your continued bs on this. It's like you are still in the denial stage of grief...

Do you seriously think ANY of us started with the idea that we wanted to tear down Dudy Noble? ANY of us? The answer is NO. We've come to that conclusion over time with a great deal of thought, observation, and cold, logical comparison to other places over time. If there was ANY good way to save it and still be among the best in college baseball, for cheap, do you really think we wouldn't be trumpeting that instead?

As a matter of fact, when this first came up, I probably spent 10-20 total hours in CAD in my free time trying to figure out ways to logistically make an expansion work within the existing structure. I'm a freelance cad designer in my spare time. I love that stuff. I tried everything from building open concourses down the lines -- to putting the chairbacks on ratcheting swivels so they could face the plate -- to building very high(that's the only way you can angle them in at ALL down the lines and still have a reasonable number of seats). NOTHING "fits". It's all forced and awkward and ends up looking/functioning half ass.


When this happens...like when you were ranting so hard about UGA being the best baseball school in the country, it seems silly.
And here you go straw man AGAIN. I said Georgia was top 5. I'm sticking by that. Let's give Stricklin 3-4 years and see where they are at. It's "silly" to you because it hasn't happened yet -- and this is just another example of you having ZERO foresight. You are a prisoner of the moment. I bet you also don't think Texas A&M is an elite football school either, do you? Actually, you probably do -- because Johnny Football already happened. I have NO doubts that you would have argued exactly like you are doing about UGA now -- on aTm when I said they would be a football giant in the SEC and that the Big6 would become a Big7 practically day 1.

Hilarious that you keep bringing this up -- trying to say we're a superior baseball school to them -- when they've won a title, played for another one in the past 5 years, and been to 4 CWS since 2000 with coaches that they fire -- to our one championship series in 2 CWS appearances with coaches that we immortalize. Can we be as good as them? Maybe. From a locally available talent standpoint -- not even close.


I'll just say this: if it was as crystal clear as you guys make it, seems to me it would already be announced. Why? Do you understand how this stuff works? It took well over 2 years from the point that Greg Byrne started talking about the football expansion to the time it was officially announced last July or August. How is baseball any different? Actually, the longer they wait to announce it, the worse it sits for your agenda -- since lipstick on the pig would be easy to design and logistically work out well enough to introduce to the fans.


I don't think it's as clear as you want to believe. In fact, I think there is a higher chance they won't tear down the grandstand in the next 5 years that that they will.
As clear as who wants to believe? Again -- you are falling in the water outside of seeing distance of the boat. No one has "claimed" that we are building a brand new stadium. NO ONE. We are drumming up support for that approach by pointing out shortcomings. BIG DIFFERENCE.


All these snips and being dumb and making no sense and blah blah blah...you should hope you are right because if we don't build a $30MM stadium, which would mean it's not nearly as clear as you contend, then I'm going to remind you about it for a long time...
What are you even talking about? AGAIN when did I contend that "this is what we are going to do"? You go ridiculous-level straw man in your arguments JUST to try to keep an argument going.

I NEVER said it's what we were going to do. What I said was that IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO FIX DUDY NOBLE. PERIOD. Only way it'll every be "great" again. Seems the VAST majority of the fanbase is starting to agree with me -- as I continue to fight the fight of STRIVING TO MAKE MSU THE BEST at something. Meanwhile, you are just arguing with me for the sake of maintaining status quo. Let that sink in.


just like the UGA deal that you got so personal on.
That I got personal on? YOU made that personal. Exactly how you've made this thread personal. Glad you are going to keep reminding me on the UGA prediction -- for only the 4th or 5th time since the last game was played** Hell, the argument was made after the last game was played. Especially when EVERYONE realizes that they are facing a 2-3 year rebuild that Polk's protege' left them -- not unlike the one Polk himself left us. Fact of the matter is -- at this rate, by the time they prove me to be visionary, you will have brought it up 2-3000 times -- and be long gone when it's time to take your medicine.

Notice how no one is willing to agree with you? Find it strange how everyone piles on and agrees with me? Why do you think that is?


It's fair to agree to disagree. The point of this thread was to show a recent article noting that what we currently have in place constitutes the second best in the country, all in all.
An article written by an MSU grad and fan that is fresh out of college and just a contributor to cbbdaily? You really think she knows more about the SEC stadiums than the rest of us? Well, ok then**

Our stadium, itself, that we have is NOT second in the country in any way. It's closer to 3rd in THIS STATE than it is to 1st. Again -- since you like to twist things up -- I'm talking strictly the design and implementation of the stadium itself.


So when you are making decisions on dropping $30MM that you don't have, that is a factor. Bama is not on that list. So the analysis is different for them. Plus they have more money.
I'm not even sure you are landing in water you are missing the boat so badly on this.

It's clear that in your opinion, baseball is a charity case -- and it makes everything else you attempt to say a total joke.

[engie]

What I would like to do is spend $100MM and have the grandstand coated in platinum.

I never called anyone an idiot.
This is the very definition of talking out of both sides of your mouth. You don't have to say "you're an idiot" to actually call everyone else here idiots. And you definitely hit land on that one...


I think that the decision makers are definitely trying to be fiscally responsible.
Ok, LT.


But I think the fact that they are doing so is weighing in favor of not spending $25MM.

And we'll be 6th in the division. Period. There is NO spending less than $20 mill and actually surpassing ANYONE(and Bama is going to pass us).


Blue Bell and Swayze are two of the nicer parks in the nation, right? Top 5 or so?
Sure. For now. They just spent top 5 money on their parks. It's to be expected. And they made what will, in 15-20 years, prove to be monumental mistakes.

They spent reasonably close to the same money that LSU and South Carolina spent -- and they aren't even on the same PLANET as those stadiums. Baum was built right in the first place CHEAPLY as the first of it's kind. It was 10 years ahead of the curve from a design aspect. Those 3 stadiums are night and day better than Swayze and Blue Bell -- and will be for the eternities of those parks.

I know -- for 100% fact -- that you are NOT going to get this -- but we've got a unique opportunity. We can build a beautiful open concourse park -- to be the 4th of the kind in the SEC. Just build it equal to the others -- and it's the best place to watch college baseball in the nation bar none. Why? Because NONE of the other parks have left field lounge.

[messageboardsuperhero]

We've made it clear that we aren't trying to say that we definitively know what will happen; building a new grandstand is what we know should happen though. There is just no way that we can simply expand off of what we already have and make it among the nicest college parks in America, which is what we all (fans, coaches, players, etc.) want and ultimately deserve. Everyone I know that has put serious thought into this sees it to be this way.

I will add that MSU baseball is at a crossroads to where we have a shot to be a top 5 national program, and this window won't be open forever. How we handle this stadium issue will have a huge impact on whether or not we do step up and become that type of program. That's why I don't want to half-ass this thing; don't spend $20 Mil. putting lipstick on a pig when we could be spending $30 Mil. or so to have a great stadium. Where will the other $10 Mil. come from? Anywhere it can be found. I don't care if Stricklin has to get on his hands and knees to beg for it. Sell bonds, borrow money (because it will pay for itself back anyway). This is a damn investment in the future of our program, and it would provide some great returns.

I see MSU baseball in a similar way that I see Tennessee football: we have really good tradition and history, but our recruiting base isn't that great, so both schools rely a lot on out of state recruiting. That's why it is imperative that we have the best facilities that we possibly can to attract those guys away from their home state schools. When you have a chance to reach the "greatness" level for a Big 3 program at Mississippi State, you don't half-ass something; you jump all over that opportunity and do the best you can to give yourself a shot at it. I realize this will take some planning and time, but the sooner that we do this, the better. Let's do this shit the best we can, while we can, and strike while the iron is hot.

[Goat Holder]

That's why we have no patience for your continued bs on this.

Again, I don't agree nor disagree with you or Sandman, but shit son, who do you think you are? You need to tone down the self-righteousness. Just my advice for you. Carry on.

[Todd4State]

I think your opinion on this is respectable and I'm hopeful we drop $30MM on baseball. MSU baseball is my favorite sport in the world.

But you are often not willing open your mind to other realities. When you are right, you are right. But, being a human, you are wrong sometimes. When this happens...like when you were ranting so hard about UGA being the best baseball school in the country, it seems silly.

I'll just say this: if it was as crystal clear as you guys make it, seems to me it would already be announced. I don't think it's as clear as you want to believe. In fact, I think there is a higher chance they won't tear down the grandstand in the next 5 years that that they will.

All these snips and being dumb and making no sense and blah blah blah...you should hope you are right because if we don't build a $30MM stadium, which would mean it's not nearly as clear as you contend, then I'm going to remind you about it for a long time...just like the UGA deal that you got so personal on.

It's fair to agree to disagree. The point of this thread was to show a recent article noting that what we currently have in place constitutes the second best in the country, all in all. So when you are making decisions on dropping $30MM that you don't have, that is a factor. Bama is not on that list. So the analysis is different for them. Plus they have more money.

Why don't you think we could get the money? Alabama cares much less about baseball than us and they are about to drop 25 million I believe on renovations. We are spending a lot of money on football facilties all the time.

A school like MSU that actually cares- and has ties to one of the top baseball stadium architects in the country who likely would give us a major discount for her services- can get the money. We have alumni that are in the Big Leagues as well that can and will help promote this. Much like Rafael Palmeiro helping build the Palmeiro Center.

We might not even have to hit up anyone because of ESPN.

[engie]

Again, I don't agree nor disagree with you or Sandman, but shit son, who do you think you are? You need to tone down the self-righteousness. Just my advice for you. Carry on.

You know a thing or two about self-righteousness and self-awareness don't you, Goat** Glad you could sniff out one sentence among multiple replies of mine to half-ass bitch about while adding zero to the thread.

Here's an idea -- When you are the the worst poster in MSU history given the number of times you've been banned from a website that is virtually impossible to get banned from -- don't try to give anyone else advice.

Like I've already said -- ANYONE is free to disagree with me. Many of us here have healthy and productive disagreements all the time. You and Sandman are literally the only two that can't seem to do this on any kind of semi-regular basis. When you start basically calling me an idiot or telling me "you're wrong" on something, you better bring yo guns cuz im finna bring the army.

[Goat Holder]

Why don't you think we could get the money? Alabama cares much less about baseball than us and they are about to drop 25 million I believe on renovations. We are spending a lot of money on football facilties all the time.

A school like MSU that actually cares- and has ties to one of the top baseball stadium architects in the country who likely would give us a major discount for her services- can get the money. We have alumni that are in the Big Leagues as well that can and will help promote this. Much like Rafael Palmeiro helping build the Palmeiro Center.

We might not even have to hit up anyone because of ESPN.

Every other SEC team could do this too. Exactly how again are we getting a leg up by doing this?

[engie]

Every other SEC team could do this too. Exactly how again are we getting a leg up by doing this?

Every other SEC team has the support structure in place to actually make money off the stadium? They've got the same passionate baseball fanbases that we do? It doesn't make sense for them to do it, because they would just be throwing money at a black hole with no ROI and might as well spend the $30 mil on softball or gymnastics.

All of the schools that have even close to the support that we do have already done it. 5 of 6 within the past 5 years -- and Arky/Baum is in a constant state of renovation due to having a tremendous initial design.

We're one of the 5, maybe 6, programs in the conference where baseball actually has a ROI and is already profitable. Why would we skimp on the opportunity to make it 2-3x as profitable as it currently is? Or does our athletics department not like investing extra money to make extra money?

[engie]

I think the only way to settle it is to look back at LSU's number pre/post New Alex Box if I can find them and see how much it added to their revenue stream...

Look at our current ticket prices/numbers -- and make a guess of what a new stadium with triple the premium opportunities would bring in...

[Goat Holder]

you better bring yo guns cuz im finna bring the army.

The French Army, maybe.

[Goat Holder]

Every other SEC team has the support structure in place to actually make money off the stadium? They've got the same passionate baseball fanbases that we do? It doesn't make sense for them to do it, because they would just be throwing money at a black hole with no ROI and might as well spend the $30 mil on softball or gymnastics.

All of the schools that have even close to the support that we do have already done it. 5 of 6 within the past 5 years -- and Arky/Baum is in a constant state of renovation due to having a tremendous initial design.

We're one of the 5, maybe 6, programs in the conference where baseball actually has a ROI and is already profitable. Why would we skimp on the opportunity to make it 2-3x as profitable as it currently is? Or does our athletics department not like investing extra money to make extra money?

Because it's not nearly as cut and dried as you're making it out to be.

Good thing is, Stricklin and his people get paid to make these decisions. Either way it'll work out just fine. We don't have all this money that you speak of. Are you even in the Bulldog Club? You seem to think you know everything about the cash flow of the athletic department.