MSU thrives without scoring big in recruiting...

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Michigan State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14464640/michigan-state-spartans-find-success-radar-recruits)

Four of the Spartans' 22 starters were ranked in the ESPN 300 as high school prospects. The Crimson Tide will have five ESPN 300 prospects just in their front seven on defense. Overall,16 of their 22 starters were ESPN 300 recruits

"People develop. You come here as teenager and leave here as a man," Dantonio said. "Between 18 and 22, there is a vast change in ability. If you work with people and they have the right attitude, they can grow as people and football players."

The Spartans have made a living of finding two- and three-star prospects and turning them into five-star players by the time they're done in East Lansing. The list goes on and on: Le'Veon Bell, Darqueze Dennard, Trae Waynes, Connor Cook, Jack Conklin and Shilique Calhoun, to name a few.

"We pride ourselves on that here at Michigan State," said Conklin, who has gone from being a walk-on to a first-team All-American and potential first-round NFL draft pick. "We're the rag-tag crew, the overlooked guys who are somehow winning. But, really, we believe we're just as good as everybody else, player-wise and talent-wise, and it's fun showing everybody what they missed out on. The most fun is winning."..........


There's also an apprenticeship of sorts within the program that has been equally valuable.

"We invest in people," Dantonio said. "It's your program that matters. It's not the people who come in. It's how you run your program, how you invest in them and how they develop. Our seniors have always led the way. It's one of the reasons we've had success. Our seniors play their best football their senior year."

Conklin remembers being mentored by fellow offensive linemen Blake Treadwell and Fou Fonoti when he was younger, and he has made sure to pay it forward.

"The biggest thing I've seen at Michigan State is the older guys and how much they help in bringing the younger guys along," Conklin said. "I remember being a freshman and Blake and Fou would take me aside after practice and go over things, even if I didn't want to, and make me work on things, footwork and understanding the playbook. That's what helped me become the player I am. That's the legacy that's been built at Michigan State."

[Bully13]

MSU is for us only on this board. You deserve a warning

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

If we were in the Big 10 this would be us and they would be us in the SEC. They might can beat an SEC team in one game that they have a month to prepare for but going through a whole season in the SEC they would be the equivalent of us.

[sleepy dawg]

I agree. It's a good system, and it works. It's just really hard to do it against the elite teams consistently when you're facing more talented teams week in week out.

[msstate7]

If we were in the Big 10 this would be us and they would be us in the SEC. They might can beat an SEC team in one game that they have a month to prepare for but going through a whole season in the SEC they would be the equivalent of us.

Michigan state is 36-4 the last 3 years. They've won the big 10 twice, rose bowl, cotton bowl, and now in playoffs... We aren't in their class. We just aren't

[louisvilledawg]

^^^^^^ this.

[ShotgunDawg]

Michigan state is 36-4 the last 3 years. They've won the big 10 twice, rose bowl, cotton bowl, and now in playoffs... We aren't in their class. We just aren't

Everything you just mentioned has to do with their record in games in which they played the Big 10. Your right in that their resume is much better than ours, but, if they were in the SEC, they would be what we are.

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. When you are playing teams that are more talented than you week in & week out, that takes a toll & the chances of you losing increase

[msstate7]

Everything you just mentioned has to do with their record in games in which they played the Big 10. Your right in that their resume is much better than ours, but, if they were in the SEC, they would be what we are.

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. When you are playing teams that are more talented than you week in & week out, that takes a toll & the chances of you losing increase
You've got to kidding... Or trolling

[DudyDawg]

Everything you just mentioned has to do with their record in games in which they played the Big 10. Your right in that their resume is much better than ours, but, if they were in the SEC, they would be what we are.

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. When you are playing teams that are more talented than you week in & week out, that takes a toll & the chances of you losing increase

You mean talent like Leveon bell, Brian Hoyer, kirk cousins to name a few? Yeah, they're in another class from us and it's not close.

[msstate7]

You mean talent like Leveon bell, Brian Hoyer, kirk cousins to name a few? Yeah, they're in another class from us and it's not close.

Add cook and Scott to that list

[ShotgunDawg]

You mean talent like Leveon bell, Brian Hoyer, kirk cousins to name a few? Yeah, they're in another class from us and it's not close.

Oh my bad, I thought we also had Fletcher Cox, KJ Wright, & Darius Slay, all of which are better than Brian Hoyer or Kirk Cousins at their position. Perhaps they aren't in our class.

The main difference between us & Michigan State is that they've sustained their winning since Saban was their and they naturally have more players in the NFL and a better resume because of that.

However, when comparing the current teams & programs, if we switched places with them, they would be what we are in the SEC and we'd be what they are in the Big 10

[confucius say]

I think the truth is in the middle. In the sec, they would be a step of ahead us probably, like a Lsu or Georgia, but not dominant like 36-4 the last three years, more like 30-10, whereas we are 26-13.

[msstate7]

Oh my bad, I thought we also had Fletcher Cox, KJ Wright, & Darius Slay, all of which are better than Brian Hoyer or Kirk Cousins at their position. Perhaps they aren't in our class.

The main difference between us & Michigan State is that they've sustained their winning since Saban was their and they naturally have more players in the NFL and a better resume because of that.

However, when comparing the current teams & programs, if we switched places with them, they would be what we are in the SEC and we'd be what they are in the Big 10

Michigan state has stepped out of the big 10 and won big games... Name a big school OOC we've beaten. Georgia tech throttled us

[ShotgunDawg]

I think the truth is in the middle. In the sec, they would be a step of ahead us probably, like a Lsu or Georgia, but not dominant like 36-4 the last three years, more like 30-10, whereas we are 26-13.

Like a Georgia or LSU?

Are you 17ing kidding me?

Compare the rosters between Georgia & LSU & Michigan State.

Michigan State is a composite 20-30 recruiter & LSU & Georgia are normally in the Top 5-10.

LSU has 57 players on NFL rosters, Georgia has 53, Michigan State has 33.

Put Michigan State in the SEC West and they immediately behind Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, & Ole Miss in talent level.

How exactly do you think they will beat all those teams on a consistent basis?

[ShotgunDawg]

Michigan state has stepped out of the big 10 and won big games... Name a big school OOC we've beaten. Georgia tech throttled us

Michigan

Also, there is a big difference in playing 3 or 4 tough games a year & playing 6 or 7 tough games a year. When you play in the Big 10, you can take weeks off. You can get sky high 3 times a year when you play the good teams. In the SEC, it catches up with you, because no one can get up like that 6 times a year.

[msstate7]

Ohio state with URBAN has gone 37-4 also the last 3 years... Only difference is urban has a title. Osu has recruited as well as any sec team and has lost 2 of 3 to Michigan state. Dantonio and Michigan state are for real... It's a stretch from Philadelphia, ms, to Canada to say we're in Michigan state's class imo

[ShotgunDawg]

Ohio state with URBAN has gone 37-4 also the last 3 years... Only difference is urban has a title. Osu has recruited as well as any sec team and has lost 2 of 3 to Michigan state. Dantonio and Michigan state are for real... It's a stretch from Philadelphia, ms, to Canada to say we're in Michigan state's class imo

We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

If an average team from the last 5 years of MSU played an average team from the last 5 years of Michigan State, it would be a really good game.

I've made my point, & I hear yours. They've sustained winning for longer than we have, &, for that, they have a better resume. However, when you go player for player, recruiting class for recruiting class, & then compare schedules, you would see that, if they were in the SEC West, they'd be a lot like us.

[Really Clark?]

Oh my bad, I thought we also had Fletcher Cox, KJ Wright, & Darius Slay, all of which are better than Brian Hoyer or Kirk Cousins at their position. Perhaps they aren't in our class.

The main difference between us & Michigan State is that they've sustained their winning since Saban was their and they naturally have more players in the NFL and a better resume because of that.

However, when comparing the current teams & programs, if we switched places with them, they would be what we are in the SEC and we'd be what they are in the Big 10

Just to correct you on the sustained success. They actually fell back pretty hard under Bobby Williams. He won only 5 games the year after Saban. John Smith then came in and had one winning season. 8 wins. In the 7 years after Saban they had a 7 and a 8 win season. They had the same number of 4 win seasons than winning seasons. People forget how bad they dropped after Saban and assume they maintained that level. Which was honestly pretty avg until his last year. Nothing over 7 wins until then under Saban.

[msstate7]

We finished 6th in the west and 9th in the sec... You think there's 8 better teams than Michigan state in the sec?

We've had 1 year with 10 wins in how long? We were a 7 win team 2 years ago.

[maroonmania]

I agree. It's a good system, and it works. It's just really hard to do it against the elite teams consistently when you're facring more talented teams week in week out.

Hard to compare because outside of Ohio State and maybe Michigan, Mich St. doesn't really play any other teams that have elite talent across the board.

[ShotgunDawg]

We finished 6th in the west and 9th in the sec... You think there's 8 better teams than Michigan state in the sec?

We've had 1 year with 10 wins in how long? We were a 7 win team 2 years ago.

If we were they 9th best team in the SEC, i'd agree with you. An 8 game schedule with teams playing drastically different schedules, is way too small of a sample size to actually determine if the order of teams in the final standings is actually the order of how good they are.

If we don't turn the ball over twice in the 1st quarter against Ole Miss, win that game, & go to the Sugar Bowl, aren't we the 2nd best team?
If our kicker makes a FG against LSU, are we the 3rd best team?

The Sample size is entirely too small. It's not an intelligent argument

IMO, the SEC pecking order is futhermore out of whack due to how bad the East is.

Here is my order of the teams if they played tomorrow:

Alabama
Ole Miss
MSU - Tie
Arkansas - Tie
Tennessee - Tie
LSU
A&M
Florida
Georgia
Auburn
South Carolina
Kentucky
Missouri
Vandy

[DudyDawg]

Didn't we lose to two of those teams you have listed as worse than us......

[ShotgunDawg]

Didn't we lose to two of those teams you have listed as worse than us......

If you read, I said, "If the teams played tomorrow"

We also beat Arkansas, who finished above in the SEC West.

Singular games don't always indicate who the better team is.

For example, if I were ranking Big 10 teams in order of who I think is better, I'd rank Ohio State over Michigan State.

[DudyDawg]

If you read, I said, "If the teams played tomorrow"


Singular games don't always indicate who the better team is.



1. They don't play tomorrow, they played a few months back, and we lost.

2. How else do you figure out who's better? Maybe if college football was 7 game series we would know huh.

[missouridawg]

We finished 6th in the west and 9th in the sec... You think there's 8 better teams than Michigan state in the sec?

We've had 1 year with 10 wins in how long? We were a 7 win team 2 years ago.

I'm not full on agreeing with Shotguns stance, but this is where your logic is flawed. The level of competition at the middle and bottom of the SEC is way better than the big10. So the grind of going through those games is significantly tougher and will result in more losses.

Just look at our game at Arky. They were playing light years better than us at the time we played them. And we dropped 50+ on them at their place. Is Penn State doing that? Is Minnesota doing that? Is Indiana doing that? Nope. The 4 through 12 teams in the SEC are so much better than their equivalents in the Big10.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. They don't play tomorrow, they played a few months back, and we lost.

2. How else do you figure out who's better? Maybe if college football was 7 game series we would know huh.

Recruiting rankings & eye test.

If you don't understand this, there's not much I can say or tell you that would change your opinion

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

because we're.......not in the Big 10. If we aren't like them we are on track to be just like them. We have the same recruiting strategy. Unfortunately that don't get it done in the SEC.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

As I said originally...Yes they can win one every now and then but consistently winning in the SEC is MUUUUUCCCHHHH different.

[DudyDawg]

Recruiting rankings & eye test.

If you don't understand this, there's not much I can say or tell you that would change your opinion


Okay, what are our recruiting rankings compared to lsu and TAMU. List them and our record vs them this year please and now explain why we are better.

[ShotgunDawg]

Okay, what are our recruiting rankings compared to lsu and TAMU. List them and our record vs them this year please and now explain why we are better.

Eye test was the other half of the equation.

[DudyDawg]

Eye test was the other half of the equation.

So the on the field doesn't matter bc we lost, the recruiting ranking doesn't matter (you said it did) bc we lost, all that matters is the eye test (my eyes said that two touchdown loss to A&M was great!!!). You're not just moving the goal posts you're straight up adding extra uprights

[ShotgunDawg]

Just used a SimMatchup site to simulate 2015 Mississippi State & 2015 Michigan State playing each other.

I simulated the game 10 times on neutral field, with 70 degrees & clear skies, & Mississippi State won 5 times & Michigan State won 5 times.

Believe what you want. Here is the link:

https://www.whatifsports.com/ncaafb/default.asp#top

[ShotgunDawg]

So the on the field doesn't matter bc we lost, the recruiting ranking doesn't matter (you said it did) bc we lost, all that matters is the eye test (my eyes said that two touchdown loss to A&M was great!!!). You're not just moving the goal posts you're straight up adding extra uprights

and my eyes watched A&M play the 2nd half of their schedule & I realized that A&M played their best game of the year against MSU.

[DudyDawg]

and my eyes watched A&M play the 2nd half of their schedule & I realized that A&M played their best game of the year against MSU.

If only we won on the field, and recruiting. Cause as it stands, even if what you said is true, we still lose 2/3rds of the equation you created. But yeah, we are better

[msstate7]

Just used a SimMatchup site to simulate 2015 Mississippi State & 2015 Michigan State playing each other.

I simulated the game 10 times on neutral field, with 70 degrees & clear skies, & Mississippi State won 5 times & Michigan State won 5 times.

Believe what you want. Here is the link:

https://www.whatifsports.com/ncaafb/default.asp#top

Do it with us and nc state at game conditions to see how accurate... If they nail it, I'll believe you haha

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

The top 4 teams in the Big 10 are much better than the top 4 in the SEC and Michigan State beat the other 3.

[ShotgunDawg]

The top 4 teams in the Big 10 are much better than the top 4 in the SEC and Michigan State beat the other 3.

Disagree.

Alabama vs Ohio State - Alabama wins

Ole Miss vs Michigan State - Ole Miss wins

Michigan vs Mississippi State, LSU, A&M, Arkansas. Great games

Iowa vs Mississippi State, LSU, A&M, Arkansas. SEC probably goes 3-1 here & no worse than 2-2. Not sure who would lose or who would win.

[DudyDawg]

Disagree.

Alabama vs Ohio State - Alabama wins



I seem to remember that ending differently last time we tried

[ShotgunDawg]

I seem to remember that ending differently last time we tried

So, I guess you also think Memphis is better than Ole Miss

[msstate7]

So, I guess you also think Memphis is better than Ole Miss
Memphis caught om slipping. Ohio state beat bama in a playoff game with a month to prepare

[msstate7]

I did the simulator for our bowl game. Nc state won 3 of 5

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Here is Michigan St. playing our schedule this year by using Whatifsports.

USM: 55
MSU: 27

MSU:38
LSU: 24

MSU: 49
NWS: 24 (Substituted Old Dominion since they didn't have NWS)

MSU: 52
AUB: 40

TEX A&M: 34
MSU: 17

MSU: 55
TROY: 21

MSU: 38
La Tech: 33

MSU: 39
UK 35

MSU: 26
Missou: 14

MSU: 21
Alabama: 20

Ark: 48
MSU: 24

MSU: 38
OM: 36 (They didn't have 2015 OM for some reason so I used 2014 for both)


That is good for 9-3..with losses to lesser opponents and wins over Bama and LSU, they look more like OM than us.

[DudyDawg]

So, I guess you also think Memphis is better than Ole Miss

They were that day. And we have a term for that, it's called an upset. Kinda like what VA tech did to OSU. When one team is severely less talented and wins, it's an upset. When both teams have a month, are one loss conference champs, and constantly the best recruiters, it means they are better. Unless you think Bama should claim that title too

[msstate7]

They were that day. And we have a term for that, it's called an upset. Kinda like what VA tech did to OSU. When one team is severely less talented and wins, it's an upset. When both teams have a month, are one loss conference champs, and constantly the best recruiters, it means they are better. Unless you think Bama should claim that title too
Ohio state did what no sec team could do last year... Run it down their throat and make em like it. Ohio state was better

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

21-13 State

[DudyDawg]

Still curious how we are better than tamu and LSU when we lost 2/3rds of your made up equation. And we lose the eye test compared to lsu

[DudyDawg]

Ohio state did what no sec team could do last year... Run it down their throat and make em like it. Ohio state was better
You must not be reading. What happens on the field doesn't matter**

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Disagree.

Alabama vs Ohio State - Alabama wins

Ole Miss vs Michigan State - Ole Miss wins

Michigan vs Mississippi State, LSU, A&M, Arkansas. Great games

Iowa vs Mississippi State, LSU, A&M, Arkansas. SEC probably goes 3-1 here & no worse than 2-2. Not sure who would lose or who would win.

Why isn't Florida included in your top 4 ? They have had consistent top 10 recruiting classes for years. That's all that matters right ?

Oh I forgot the "Eye Test". Which basically means "Who you think is good" in your incredibly biased opinion. Most people live in a world where things are judged by metrics. Wins/ Losses etc.

By your logic your grades in college should determine how good of an employee you are.

Boss: "(Name), you aren't performing like I need you to"

Employee: "But I had a 4.0 in college!"

Crickets....

[HSVDawg]

Also, there is a big difference in playing 3 or 4 tough games a year & playing 6 or 7 tough games a year.

What were the 6 or 7 tough games we played this year? Just curious, because I can only name 3 or 4 at most.

[whatever]

I think the truth is in the middle. In the sec, they would be a step of ahead us probably, like a Lsu or Georgia, but not dominant like 36-4 the last three years, more like 30-10, whereas we are 26-13.

Agree with this, I think the SEC being a little better and deeper overall takes Mich St from being a 36-4 type team to more of a 30-10 type team, or better if they were in the East. I think they're definitely a step ahead of us, and are just as good as anyone in the SEC over the last 5 years except for Bama.

Recruiting rankings are overrated and coaching is underrated IMO, Michigan on average has recruited 15-20 spots ahead of Mich St but has lost 7 of 8 to them. They're 4-0 in their last 4 bowls with wins over Georgia, TCU, Stanford, and Baylor as well (beat Oregon this yr too).

USC, Auburn, Michigan, Texas, Texas A&M, and Florida have 6 of the top 12 rosters according to the recruiting rankings classes composite, and each one of those teams has had at least a 5 loss season in the last 2 years, USC is number 2 in roster talent according to recruiting rankings, and they lose 4 a year and might lose their 6th game of the yr tonight w a senior QB.

[ShotgunDawg]

Just bumping this, so we can figure out which posters don't know football

[msstate7]

Just bumping this, so we can figure out which posters don't know football

This game doesn't prove we'd be 36-4 had we had Michigan state's schedule the last 3 years.