For MyBearShark fans on Twitter- re- Ole Missus investigation

[Coach34]

Foxsports reminds us that Ole Missus is still under NCAA Investigation- http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/lineman-tunsil-eligible-ole-miss-still-under-ncaa-scrutiny-102215

"A three-year NCAA investigation - which started with the women's basketball program in 2012 after coaches were fired for recruiting and academic misconduct - remains open. Compliance issues with the football program are also unresolved."

"Ole Miss would obviously like some closure to the lengthy NCAA probe, but has had to deal with a series of incidents that may have helped prolong it"

"In the aftermath, questions were raised on social media how Ole Miss could have signed such a talented class without cheating."


"Later in the summer, Ole Miss acknowledged it was working with the NCAA on accusations made by Miller that Tunsil had illegal contact with agents and received improper benefits."

"NCAA spokeswoman Emily James wrote in an email response that the organization won't comment on current, pending or potential investigations. She did write that, in general, there are a ''number of things that impact the length of an investigation - new information or allegations, complexity of the case, etc.''

[ShotgunDawg]

So, this begs the question: If you keep cheating and new allegations continue to arise, which prolong the NCAA investigation, do you ever go on probation?

[Treemydawg]

Anything negative involving them and the NCAA has become a unicorn to me. Several people belive it could be possible but I don't think it is. They have gotten away with it way to long. They won't be punished one little bit no matter what because they play the game the right way as bad as I hate to say it.

[IMissJack]

Maybe the NCAA is finding some toughness, I read where Hawaii Basketball was hammered last week and Coach got a show cause....

[Coach34]

Anything negative involving them and the NCAA has become a unicorn to me. Several people belive it could be possible but I don't think it is. They have gotten away with it way to long. They won't be punished one little bit no matter what because they play the game the right way as bad as I hate to say it.

Tunsil got suspended 7 games for something- did he not? We went on probation for some things with Redmond- and Big Softie's missteps were as bad or worse

[Really Clark?]

I understand the frustration treemydawg, we all have had doubts dealing with them and seeing nothing done. But there has never been an investigation going this long into a program without penalties. Now which part gets hit hardest, do they get the blanket lack of institutional control because you have multiple programs in violation, does the football program skate with minor penalties, have they already negotiated all of this and we are just waiting the official response to be released, I can't answer that. But they will be hit with something. More than just the Tunsil suspension I suspect.

[msstate7]

Maybe the NCAA is finding some toughness, I read where Hawaii Basketball was hammered last week and Coach got a show cause....

Smu basketball got hit pretty hard also

[Spiderman]

Smu basketball got hit pretty hard also

yeah, cause like Tark said, They are so pissed at Kentucky, they slammed SMU

[Treemydawg]

Tunsil got suspended 7 games for something- did he not? We went on probation for some things with Redmond- and Big Softie's missteps were as bad or worse

I love your enthusiasm(sp?)coach about big softie but that aint nothing compared to Redmonds suspension for so so much less. They throw their middle finger in the air when it comes to the NCAA and we just seem to bend over and take it from the NCAA. I will believe something serious will happen to them when I actually see it. I pray that "IT'S COMING" but I don't think it will.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I love your enthusiasm(sp?)coach about big softie but that aint nothing compared to Redmonds suspension for so so much less. They throw their middle finger in the air when it comes to the NCAA and we just seem to bend over and take it from the NCAA. I will believe something serious will happen to them when I actually see it. I pray that "IT'S COMING" but I don't think it will.

Didn't the university self-impose the suspension for Will and the NCAA accepted it? Probably would have been much less if we just waited on a penalty. Will got 18 a game suspension for $2600 in impermissible benefits, so roughly we figure he is worth $150 a game.


I though we had to make a big suspension in the Redmond case because Mirando was involved.

[dawgclub99]

Tunsil got suspended 7 games for something- did he not? We went on probation for some things with Redmond- and Big Softie's missteps were as bad or worse

I think we all want them on probation but the difference here is our coach got caught being involved. To my knowledge no one from the university has been proven to have been involved. I don't think it would have mattered because the NCAA has no balls anyway but just my opinion.

[Bucky Dog]

If I was a Greg Little type with no alliance to OM, all the investigating and suspensions and such would surely make me want to go play for a school closer to my home and who is playing for a national championship this year. Just sayin!

[War Machine Dawg]

Didn't the university self-impose the suspension for Will and the NCAA accepted it? Probably would have been much less if we just waited on a penalty. Will got 18 a game suspension for $2600 in impermissible benefits, so roughly we figure he is worth $150 a game.


I though we had to make a big suspension in the Redmond case because Mirando was involved.

Yes. This is one of the many reasons we bitch about Bracky Fife.

[Really Clark?]

Didn't the university self-impose the suspension for Will and the NCAA accepted it? Probably would have been much less if we just waited on a penalty. Will got 18 a game suspension for $2600 in impermissible benefits, so roughly we figure he is worth $150 a game.

The impermissible benefits that we agreed upon was a good bit higher than that amount.

[msstate7]

I think we all want them on probation but the difference here is our coach got caught being involved. To my knowledge no one from the university has been proven to have been involved. I don't think it would have mattered because the NCAA has no balls anyway but just my opinion.

Is David Saunders considered a coach? Not familiar with the women's sport cases

[Coach34]

The impermissible benefits that we agreed upon was a good bit higher than that amount.

Thats our problem- what we agreed to wasnt what happened. Hence- Bracky catching so much shit- when it should be Keenum and Strick...

But anyway- Redmond doesnt matter:

What matters is that OleMissus is still under investigation. And Tunsil is not the only one the NCAA has checked into on them- thats why the investigation has taken so long

[Really Clark?]

Is David Saunders considered a coach? Not familiar with the women's sport cases

The WBB case involved the assistant coaches and cost the head his job as well. Saunders was not a coach during the time we speculate they are investigating but he was a part of the Nutt staff. They would have to go all the way back to find something during Orgeron when he was a coach. Just don't know they are going that far back.

[Coach34]

Is David Saunders considered a coach? Not familiar with the women's sport cases

Saunders was affiliated with their football program so it equates to Mirando being involved at State

[Coach34]

Saunders was not a coach during the time we speculate they are investigating but he was a part of the Nutt staff. They would have to go all the way back to find something during Orgeron when he was a coach. Just don't know they are going that far back.

Saunders was part of Nutt's staff- has nothing to do with Orgeron

[Really Clark?]

Thats our problem- what we agreed to wasnt what happened. Hence- Bracky catching so much shit- when it should be Keenum and Strick...

But anyway- Redmond doesnt matter:

What matters is that OleMissus is still under investigation. And Tunsil is not the only one the NCAA has checked into on them- thats why the investigation has taken so long

Don't disagree at all. People just forget that what we didn't dispute was a much larger amount than what is assumed. People just remember the car discount and a jacket. Those were not the biggest allegation. And we should have fought that part harder.

I agree with you about UNM and what all they are looking into. And it goes much deeper than Tunsil and people forget that Hampton was also suspended for the same thing. He just didn't have as long of a "rental". At the very least we can pin point it going into the Nutt years by the evidence given in the ULL case which was only investigated because of what they and UNM turned up during the plantation investigation.

[Really Clark?]

Saunders was part of Nutt's staff- has nothing to do with Orgeron

Yeah but he wasn't a coach on the staff. I doesn't matter because it still falls under the football program. I just didn't want anyone confused thinking he was an on the field coach. People might confuse it because he was with Orgeron. And yeah I don't believe they are going that far back either. Just clarifying. And part of this mess was because Saunders sued UNM for the broken promise that he would be given an on the field job but Boone didn't really want Saunders anywhere near the program. It's was a pretty big issue to keep Nutt.

BTW. For those who don't know Saunders is now the HC at PRCC.

[Bucky Dog]

Don't forget all the pics of Treadwell with his stack of hundreds and the partying he put on Instagram and then deleted. And the Tunsil trail is deep! From the Touhys taking him to the SB to meet Mr Blinside, to the allegations of grade fixing and test taking,not to mention his parents ending up in Oxford, and all the other shit we know about.

And how exactly again did Treadwell and Kim and Tunsil get to Birmingham after the AA game, and end up on the sideline??

[maroonmania]

I understand the frustration treemydawg, we all have had doubts dealing with them and seeing nothing done. But there has never been an investigation going this long into a program without penalties. Now which part gets hit hardest, do they get the blanket lack of institutional control because you have multiple programs in violation, does the football program skate with minor penalties, have they already negotiated all of this and we are just waiting the official response to be released, I can't answer that. But they will be hit with something. More than just the Tunsil suspension I suspect.

OM has already gotten tremendous benefits off the 2013 recruiting class. Even if they get some type of penalties I want to see if it would be of any consequence that might actually deter the behavior. If they get the benefit of a number of elite players because of their rule breaking and then only get a minor slap on the wrist then it will have been worth it and will in no way deter the behavior for OM or anyone else going forward. Personally though I don't believe the NCAA will give anything severe for actual recruiting violations in football. They haven't done anything like that in many years. They are all over amateurism issues after players are on campus, especially if it involves agents, but its almost like they've accepted that enticements to initially sign a player is just standard operating procedure today.

[cheewgumm]

It pays to cheat. It's not even a question anymore.

Let's say they get 2 yrs probation (1 yr loss of bowls and 10 total scholarships- which I think would be a lot.) , would it be worth it? I say definitely yes, if they end up with 2 top 5 recruiting classes on a span of 4 years.

So it doesn't even matter to me. They may get probation but there is 0 threat of anything approaching te death penalty so nobody fears the NCAA anymore, and they shouldn't

Cheat better.

[Really Clark?]

OM has already gotten tremendous benefits off the 2013 recruiting class. Even if they get some type of penalties I want to see if it would be of any consequence that might actually deter the behavior. If they get the benefit of a number of elite players because of their rule breaking and then only get a minor slap on the wrist then it will have been worth it and will in no way deter the behavior for OM or anyone else going forward. Personally though I don't believe the NCAA will give anything severe for actual recruiting violations in football. They haven't done anything like that in many years. They are all over amateurism issues after players are on campus, especially if it involves agents, but its almost like they've accepted that enticements to initially sign a player is just standard operating procedure today.

I don't think they are just looking at recruiting violations. Falsifying academic records (ACT testing issues that they went after ULL over) is a point of issue with the NCAA. And I firmly believe they were poised to hammer Miami hard on recruiting violations until it was discovered their own compliance had a major issue in that case. We will have to see what happens but they don't spend this long in a case and do nothing. And we still don't know what prompted the track coach to resign abruptly. And Freeze has also outed himself in a violation by speaking to CJ after he signed a LOI. So many little angles and violations and immpermissable benefits, accross multiple sports. If they stack all of this together like they have done with other programs, then you get to lack of institutional control.

[Really Clark?]

OM has already gotten tremendous benefits off the 2013 recruiting class. Even if they get some type of penalties I want to see if it would be of any consequence that might actually deter the behavior. If they get the benefit of a number of elite players because of their rule breaking and then only get a minor slap on the wrist then it will have been worth it and will in no way deter the behavior for OM or anyone else going forward. Personally though I don't believe the NCAA will give anything severe for actual recruiting violations in football. They haven't done anything like that in many years. They are all over amateurism issues after players are on campus, especially if it involves agents, but its almost like they've accepted that enticements to initially sign a player is just standard operating procedure today.

I don't think they are just looking at recruiting violations. Falsifying academic records (ACT testing issues that they went after ULL over) is a point of issue with the NCAA. And I firmly believe they were poised to hammer Miami hard on recruiting violations until it was discovered their own compliance had a major issue in that case. We will have to see what happens but they don't spend this long in a case and do nothing. And we still don't know what prompted the track coach to resign abruptly. And Freeze has also outed himself in a violation by speaking to CJ after he signed a LOI. So many little angles and violations and immpermissable benefits, accross multiple sports. If they stack all of this together like they have done with other programs, then you get to lack of institutional control.

ETA. Although it wasn't much of a penalty for the school, Oregon recently got on probation for recruiting violations. The big point was Chip Kelly's 18 month show cause. So they are still penalizing on recruiting but depending on the circumstance they are hammering the coaches harder than the university.

[cheewgumm]

I don't think they are just looking at recruiting violations. Falsifying academic records (ACT testing issues that they went after ULL over) is a point of issue with the NCAA. And I firmly believe they were poised to hammer Miami hard on recruiting violations until it was discovered their own compliance had a major issue in that case. We will have to see what happens but they don't spend this long in a case and do nothing. And we still don't know what prompted the track coach to resign abruptly. And Freeze has also outed himself in a violation by speaking to CJ after he signed a LOI. So many little angles and violations and immpermissable benefits, accross multiple sports. If they stack all of this together like they have done with other programs, then you get to lack of institutional control.


Then what?

Not to be a smartass to you but what does it matter if they get LOIC?

I think the NCAA knows what goes on and doesn't care anymore. If it's just blatant they will do something though not enough anymore.

In truth I think the SEC is worse now than the old Southwest Conference ever was. There is just so much $ that nobody will do anything to end it.

[maroonmania]

I don't think they are just looking at recruiting violations. Falsifying academic records (ACT testing issues that they went after ULL over) is a point of issue with the NCAA. And I firmly believe they were poised to hammer Miami hard on recruiting violations until it was discovered their own compliance had a major issue in that case. We will have to see what happens but they don't spend this long in a case and do nothing. And we still don't know what prompted the track coach to resign abruptly. And Freeze has also outed himself in a violation by speaking to CJ after he signed a LOI. So many little angles and violations and immpermissable benefits, accross multiple sports. If they stack all of this together like they have done with other programs, then you get to lack of institutional control.

What exactly was the Freeze violation with regards to Chris Jones (assuming that's who you meant)?

[Really Clark?]

Then what?

Not to be a smartass to you but what does it matter if they get LOIC?

I think the NCAA knows what goes on and doesn't care anymore. If it's just blatant they will do something though not enough anymore.

In truth I think the SEC is worse now than the old Southwest Conference ever was. There is just so much $ that nobody will do anything to end it.

And I think the NCAA is trying to find its teeth again. Since Miami they have hit schools harder than before that point. And I can only think of one school that only got 2 years with the lack of institutional control. The norm was 3-5 years with scholarship reductions and postseason bans. Just a few years ago Texas Southern was close to getting the death penalty but they were repeat violators. 2012 UCF got 5 years, postseason ban, scholarship reductions, etc. and recruiting violations were a part of that investigation. UNC and OSU multi year probation, scholarship reductions, postseason ban, show causes, etc. They do not want the LOIC to be a part of this.

[Really Clark?]

What exactly was the Freeze violation with regards to Chris Jones (assuming that's who you meant)?

Remember when he came out in an interview this summer talking about relationships and wanting to be a mentor to kids even ones he didn't sign and specifically mentioned Chris Jones. Many were upset with CJ about still talking with Freeze, although they don't know the reasoning and CJ and Mullen would only say no comment. Well it is a violation for a coach to talk with a player at another school like that. Improper contact. Now this is my speculation, he knows that when things finally come out it will be listed as a violation because it was discovered he made some sort of contact to CJ. Maybe before CJ was to talk to the NCAA about their recruiting of him, may be after, may be its innocent. I don't know. But he sure wanted to make sure to put his holler than thou spin on it. I'm so concerned about these kids I keep in contact with all of my recruits. That's fine but CJ was the only one he named, if I remember correctly, and it's is a violation that he wants to rewrite the narrative on.

[Homedawg]

The problem with the NCAA and ole miss stuff is this- the probabtion isn't what hurts a program,(unless it usc variety, and that ain't happening) it's the fear of the unknown. And, at this point, there has been no "formal" announcement of allegations. Until there is, ole miss won't be hurt. My biggest fear is they get a letter, they argree and basically don't get hurt in a recruiting cycle. Hope I'm wrong....

[Coach34]

I think the NCAA knows what goes on and doesn't care anymore. If it's just blatant they will do something though not enough anymore.


So why are basketball teams getting sanctions???

[Really Clark?]

The problem with the NCAA and ole miss stuff is this- the probabtion isn't what hurts a program,(unless it usc variety, and that ain't happening) it's the fear of the unknown. And, at this point, there has been no "formal" announcement of allegations. Until there is, ole miss won't be hurt. My biggest fear is they get a letter, they argree and basically don't get hurt in a recruiting cycle. Hope I'm wrong....

You are wrong about the formal announcement of allegations. It's different now than it use to be. All they have to do is give a verbal or written to the president, which they have already done because the NCAA cannot conduct investigations on their campus until they do. They have had the notice of allegations for probably close to 3 1/2 - 4 years now. The university does NOT have to make that public anymore. In fact until the university responds in writing to the final allegations which they put forth their recommendations for punishment, nothing has to be given to the public. But they have already received the formal notice of allegations. The investigation could not have taken place with out it. And we know the NCAA and UNM are investigating together because they initiated the ULL investigation and both were present at the initial interview at ULL. Remember it wasn't until that first interview did information turn up that got ULL in trouble. They were originally only looking into issues that related to UNM.

[Todd4State]

The problem with the NCAA and ole miss stuff is this- the probabtion isn't what hurts a program,(unless it usc variety, and that ain't happening) it's the fear of the unknown. And, at this point, there has been no "formal" announcement of allegations. Until there is, ole miss won't be hurt. My biggest fear is they get a letter, they argree and basically don't get hurt in a recruiting cycle. Hope I'm wrong....

I would be shocked if Ole Miss doesn't appeal.

[cheewgumm]

I don't think they are just looking at recruiting violations. Falsifying academic records (ACT testing issues that they went after ULL over) is a point of issue with the NCAA. And I firmly believe they were poised to hammer Miami hard on recruiting violations until it was discovered their own compliance had a major issue in that case. We will have to see what happens but they don't spend this long in a case and do nothing. And we still don't know what prompted the track coach to resign abruptly. And Freeze has also outed himself in a violation by speaking to CJ after he signed a LOI. So many little angles and violations and immpermissable benefits, accross multiple sports. If they stack all of this together like they have done with other programs, then you get to lack of institutional control.


So why are basketball teams getting sanctions???

Possibly because there is not as much $$ involved. Do you think football teams get probation or are under as much scrutiny as in the past? I don't. I'd have to take time to prove it, but i think I can remember several SEC teams being on probation at once.

When was the last SEC team on probation?

[Jack Lambert]

What exactly was the Freeze violation with regards to Chris Jones (assuming that's who you meant)?

They talked to Chris Jones for a reason and it wasn't because he was a five star like ole MIss said. I think Ole Miss is giving the middle figure but sooner or later the NCAA is going get tired of it and break that figure off. If not they will lose all control and they know it. If they are ever going to make another example it isn't going to Bama.

[Really Clark?]

I would be shocked if Ole Miss doesn't appeal.

There would only be a possible appeal if the NCAA doesn't accept their self imposing penalties and the NCAA's is harsher. I would be shocked if they agree to all of the allegations and don't go to the committee for resolution on what or how much they agree to accept. That may be what you were talking about though.

[Really Clark?]

Possibly because there is not as much $$ involved. Do you think football teams get probation or are under as much scrutiny as in the past? I don't. I'd have to take time to prove it, but i think I can remember several SEC teams being on probation at once.

When was the last SEC team on probation?

Um...us, USC in 2012, Tenn 2011, Bama in 2009 I think all of these overlapped maybe Bama rolled off when we got probation. I think theirs was for 3 years. Tenn actually had to extend their 2 probation an additional 2 years because of Willie Mack Garza while on Kiffin's staff. That was an interesting deal because the COI actually stated that while this had never been done before they were making this a new precedent going forward with all cases. Stronger COI willing to add stiffer penalties with a previously thought of resolved case.

[Todd4State]

There would only be a possible appeal if the NCAA doesn't accept their self imposing penalties and the NCAA's is harsher. I would be shocked if they agree to all of the allegations and don't go to the committee for resolution on what or how much they agree to accept. That may be what you were talking about though.

Yes. You just explained what I was talking about in more formal terms.

[OurState]

Then what?

Not to be a smartass to you but what does it matter if they get LOIC?

I think the NCAA knows what goes on and doesn't care anymore. If it's just blatant they will do something though not enough anymore.

In truth I think the SEC is worse now than the old Southwest Conference ever was. There is just so much $ that nobody will do anything to end it.

You are right. It's the golden age of cheating.

We need to focus on cheating better, cheating smarter, cheating more.

The crazy belief that TSUN will get caught, and be punished is hurting us.

Even if they do we still have 1 win over LSU and 0 over Bama.

Let's focus on winning, not hoping our rival gets a time out.

[JoseBrown]

They talked to Chris Jones for a reason and it wasn't because he was a five star like ole MIss said. I think Ole Miss is giving the middle figure but sooner or later the NCAA is going get tired of it and break that figure off. If not they will lose all control and they know it. If they are ever going to make another example it isn't going to Bama.

If he kept talking to CJ after he signed with us it was for a reason. The only one I will think of, until shown otherwise, is to stay tight with him so he don't roll over on the Rev.

[JoseBrown]

Um...us, USC in 2012, Tenn 2011, Bama in 2009 I think all of these overlapped maybe Bama rolled off when we got probation. I think theirs was for 3 years. Tenn actually had to extend their 2 probation an additional 2 years because of Willie Mack Garza while on Kiffin's staff. That was an interesting deal because the COI actually stated that while this had never been done before they were making this a new precedent going forward with all cases. Stronger COI willing to add stiffer penalties with a previously thought of resolved case.

So, what I keep thinking about is 2 teams with losing records playing in bowl games this year. If the NCAA puts bowl bans on many teams going forward, who the hell's gonna play in all these freaking bowl games?

We have enough bowl games now a days for more than half of FCS to play in if not more. If UM football gets nothing more than a few player games here n there, then I'm convinced the NCAA is looking a blind eye on impermissible benefits in order to ensure bowl games have teams.

[Coach34]

I'm sorry- but this thread is about OM being under investigation and has nothing to do with us

[JoseBrown]

I'm sorry- but this thread is about OM being under investigation and has nothing to do with us

Only thing I said about us could be applied to any player Freezus kept talking to after said player signs with another school. If the Rev keeps calling a kid in that situation it is my firm belief he ain't doing for the kid. So, why commit an NCAA rules violation knowingly? I think it's to keep tight with the kid in hopes to 1.gather any info about anyone spilling the beans. Or 2. In an effort to persuade the kid for not telling all wrong doings by the UM recruiting team (the network) to the NCAA.

[BossDawg]

If he kept talking to CJ after he signed with us it was for a reason. The only one I will think of, until shown otherwise, is to stay tight with him so he don't roll over on the Rev.

Interesting angle. Didn't think about that. Makes Freezy look kind of like he's trying to keep something squashed.