Sullivan to LSU

[HoopsDawg]

Nm

[msstate7]

Great! Now we get to deal with him blocking our cb's for LF and guice

[GreenheadDawg]

Better than him going to a school where we would actually have the ball thrown to him

[msstate7]

Better than him going to a school where we would actually have the ball thrown to him

We wouldn't face tcu most likely... Rather him go to tcu

[maroonmania]

Probably just a case of the LSU boosters taking care of a situation.

[GreenheadDawg]

We wouldn't face tcu most likely... Rather him go to tcu

True. I forgot they were in the picture

[Todd4State]

Probably just a case of the LSU boosters taking care of a situation.

Yep. Well played LSU and Orgeron.

[Really Clark?]

Yep. Well played LSU and Orgeron.

Cam Cameron is primary but I know what you mean. LSU coming back in at the end.

[Coach34]

His going back to LSU didn't happen because they just happened to convince him that Brandon Harris could get the ball to him. Make sure each and every one of you realize that

[HoopsDawg]

His going back to LSU didn't happen because they just happened to convince him that Brandon Harris could get the ball to him. Make sure each and every one of you realize that

Let me point out that in 7 years at MSU, Mullen has only signed 3 out of state HS prospects rated 4 stars: Beni Brown, Will Redmond, and Fred Ross. All 3 guys were key contributors. Zero 5 star players of course. That's 7 classes, almost 200 signees and only 3 out of state guys rated higher than 3 stars. OM and Freeze have had 16 in 2 classes.

[msstate7]

Let me point out that in 7 years at MSU, Mullen has only signed 3 out of state HS prospects rated 4 stars: Beni Brown, Will Redmond, and Fred Ross. All 3 guys were key contributors. Zero 5 star players of course. That's 7 classes, almost 200 signees and only 3 out of state guys rated higher than 3 stars. OM and Freeze have had 16 in 2 classes.

Definitely need to pick it up, but we've had some good success with out of state 3* guys during that period...

Malcolm Johnson
Jameon Lewis
Dillon day (2*)
Dak
JRob
Preston smith (2*)
Ryan brown
Bear Wilson

Out of state 3* guys that are about to break thru...

Cory Thomas
Elijah Staley/nick Fitzgerald
Deion Calhoun

If we start signing a few more 4* out of state guys, but continue to find quality lower rated players I'll be happy.

[defiantdog]

Let me point out that in 7 years at MSU, Mullen has only signed 3 out of state HS prospects rated 4 stars: Beni Brown, Will Redmond, and Fred Ross. All 3 guys were key contributors. Zero 5 star players of course. That's 7 classes, almost 200 signees and only 3 out of state guys rated higher than 3 stars. OM and Freeze have had 16 in 2 classes.
Zero had to do with Mullen's lack of effort. Cameron didn't even do an inhouse with Sullivan. There's a reason why Sullivan decommitted from LSU before..... He knows he won't get the ball. Good luck to the guy.

[bulldawg28]

Janeon Lewis is from Mississippi

[msstate7]

Janeon Lewis is from Mississippi
Who asked ya? Haha... Oops

[mic]

Let me point out that in 7 years at MSU, Mullen has only signed 3 out of state HS prospects rated 4 stars: Beni Brown, Will Redmond, and Fred Ross. All 3 guys were key contributors. Zero 5 star players of course. That's 7 classes, almost 200 signees and only 3 out of state guys rated higher than 3 stars. OM and Freeze have had 16 in 2 classes.

Its because our staff gets out worked with out of state kids... And our "network" isn't allowed to work like others schools do

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Let me point out that in 7 years at MSU, Mullen has only signed 3 out of state HS prospects rated 4 stars: Beni Brown, Will Redmond, and Fred Ross. All 3 guys were key contributors. Zero 5 star players of course. That's 7 classes, almost 200 signees and only 3 out of state guys rated higher than 3 stars. OM and Freeze have had 16 in 2 classes.

Nick Gibson, Cord Sandberg, & Montrell Conner also.

[HoopsDawg]

Nick Gibson, Cord Sandberg, & Montrell Conner also.

I go by Scout. Gibson was a 3 star. I'm not about to give Mullen credit/blame on Conner, and Sandberg never enrolled.

[Really Clark?]

I go by Scout. Gibson was a 3 star. I'm not about to give Mullen credit/blame on Conner, and Sandberg never enrolled.

Why are not giving credit on Conner? Are you going to drop the UNM numbers for the guys who left as well?

[HoopsDawg]

Why are not giving credit on Conner? Are you going to drop the UNM numbers for the guys who left as well?

B/C Mullen had Jack shit to do with Montrell Conner. But sure lets give him credit. 4 in 8 years compared to 16 in 2.

[CadaverDawg]

It's tough to be in our position....

On one hand, you know we need to recruit better in order to keep up in the West and beat teams at the top of this league...

On the other hand, many hate to risk 8-10 wins a year with a #20 class, for 5-6 wins a year with a coach that is SUPPOSED to be a great recruiter but only propels us by a few 4 star guys per season but doesn't develop nor coach as well as Dan & Co.

I'd love to hire a great "Networker", pay him well, & let him do his thing...while keeping Mullen.

ETA: And by "networker" I'm talking about a guy that can help us build our network & get the wheels turning

[Really Clark?]

B/C Mullen had Jack shit to do with Montrell Conner. But sure lets give him credit. 4 in 8 years compared to 16 in 2.

Whatever. He still had to recruit him when he was hired as well. Kids drop schools all the time under coaching changes. How bout we actually count the kids that stick and contribute for the schools.

[HoopsDawg]

It's tough to be in our position....

On one hand, you know we need to recruit better in order to keep up in the West and beat teams at the top of this league...

On the other hand, many hate to risk 8-10 wins a year with a #20 class, for 5-6 wins a year with a coach that is SUPPOSED to be a great recruiter but only propels us by a few 4 star guys per season but doesn't develop nor coach as well as Dan & Co.

I'd love to hire a great "Networker", pay him well, & let him do his thing...while keeping Mullen

Mullen is not signing Top 20 classes every year. If he was, he could stay here forever as far as I'm concerned.

[CadaverDawg]

Mullen is not signing Top 20 classes every year. If he was, he could stay here forever as far as I'm concerned.

Ok, Top 25. He's not recruiting near as poorly as you are trying to make it out. Our class is poor right now, yet we will still likely finish 20-25....and you are saying Top 20 annually deserves a lifetime contract.

[HoopsDawg]

Ok, Top 25. He's not recruiting near as poorly as you are trying to make it out. Our class is poor right now, yet we will still likely finish 20-25....and you are saying Top 20 annually deserves a lifetime contract.

We are 50th right now and no one knows where will we finish, but it won't be Top 20.

In 2014 we were 39. Every year we need to be in the 17-23 range. My only point in this thread was that it's no surprise that we lost a 4 star out of state player under this regime. That's just stating a fact.

[msstate7]

I think Mullen needs to recruit better in 2 areas: oline and speed on defense.

[HSVDawg]

It's tough to be in our position....

On one hand, you know we need to recruit better in order to keep up in the West and beat teams at the top of this league...

On the other hand, many hate to risk 8-10 wins a year with a #20 class, for 5-6 wins a year with a coach that is SUPPOSED to be a great recruiter but only propels us by a few 4 star guys per season but doesn't develop nor coach as well as Dan & Co.

I'd love to hire a great "Networker", pay him well, & let him do his thing...while keeping Mullen.

ETA: And by "networker" I'm talking about a guy that can help us build our network & get the wheels turning

You and others are overcomplicating the problem. We have been recruiting well at all except one position, and it's the one position where you have to excel to win big in this league. Until this changes, we will continue to finish in the neighborhood of 6-8 wins and will continue to get our asses kicked every Thanksgiving. Maybe that changes this with this recruiting class, and maybe it doesn't. But for it to change, we must land Lashley and at least one other elite OL that will be here NEXT season. Raekwon Davis would be great but he is not an immediate solution. He's definitely not going to be available next year and it's questionable that he even switches over to OL period. Whether its Hevesy doing a rain dance or our network going to unprecedented levels, something needs to happen.

[Coach34]

We are 50th right now and no one knows where will we finish, but it won't be Top 20.

In 2014 we were 39. Every year we need to be in the 17-23 range. My only point in this thread was that it's no surprise that we lost a 4 star out of state player under this regime. That's just stating a fact.

Mullen has only had 2 top 25 recruiting classes out of 6 I believe...looks like 2 out 7 but this year could be close

[maroonmania]

Mullen is not signing Top 20 classes every year. If he was, he could stay here forever as far as I'm concerned.

Let's be honest, if Mullen was signing Top 20 classes routinely or better and routinely winning 9 to 10 games every year or more, given what we've seen with his wandering eye, he almost certainly wouldn't be our head coach any more. So its a little ironic that Mullen doesn't want to jeopardize his career by doing the things needed to elevate our recruiting yet our limitations in recruiting is the exact thing that will likely prevent him from ever getting an offer that he wants from an "elite" school that would pull him away from us.

[TUSK]

I know "the Kang" still hangs out in Starkville from time to time... Why don't yall ask him for "consultation"?

He did learn from the best....


allegedly...

[HoopsDawg]

Let's be honest, if Mullen was signing Top 20 classes routinely or better and routinely winning 9 to 10 games every year or more, given what we've seen with his wandering eye, he almost certainly wouldn't be our head coach any more. So its a little ironic that Mullen doesn't want to jeopardize his career by doing the things needed to elevate our recruiting yet our limitations in recruiting is the exact thing that will likely prevent him from ever getting an offer that he wants from an "elite" school that would pull him away from us.

Yes, good point. Maybe this offseason proved to Mullen he might be here a while so time to play the game.

[Really Clark?]

We are 50th right now and no one knows where will we finish, but it won't be Top 20.

In 2014 we were 39. Every year we need to be in the 17-23 range. My only point in this thread was that it's no surprise that we lost a 4 star out of state player under this regime. That's just stating a fact.

And we were top 20 in 2012 and 2013. He has averaged about 25.5 over his career and the prior 4 years he has averaged 19.5 in the Scout rankings. You are choosing to ignore the years that don't fit your narrative.

[CadaverDawg]

And we were top 20 in 2012 and 2013. He has averaged about 25.5 over his career and the prior 4 years he has averaged 19.5 in the Scout rankings. You are choosing to ignore the years that don't fit your narrative.

Yep

[Really Clark?]

Mullen has only had 2 top 25 recruiting classes out of 6 I believe...looks like 2 out 7 but this year could be close

Hoops was using Scout. He has 3 Top 20 classes the last 4 years.

[msstate7]

And we were top 20 in 2012 and 2013. He has averaged about 25.5 over his career and the prior 4 years he has averaged 19.5 in the Scout rankings. You are choosing to ignore the years that don't fit your narrative.

Hoops switched to scout in '14. He used rivals before that***

[Coach34]

247 has us 26th in 2012 and 23rd in 2013

Composite has us 22nd and 25th...

fair enough

[Really Clark?]

247 has us 26th in 2012 and 23rd in 2013

Composite has us 22nd and 25th...

fair enough

I like the composite numbers as well. That way it covers everybody. He stated he only uses Scout though. If that's his stance then I'm fine using that.

[Irondawg]

To me it's amazing that other states can take care of their recruits when its against us, but other schools (especially someone our equal in OM) can invade some states and occasionally take not only a good prospect but an elite one. So either Freeze is the best living room guy in the nation or they are paying double what others are to get them to come there.

It's just frustrating. They go and get hammered by the NCAA and Freeze gets a show cause and all goes back to normal. But that's not going to happen it appears.

So I'm not sure why Mullen is so scared of playing the game, because as others have said, if he really does want to land an elite job he's going to have to up the overall talent level to do it.

[Todd4State]

I like the composite numbers as well. That way it covers everybody. He stated he only uses Scout though. If that's his stance then I'm fine using that.

Other than the fact that scout is way more inaccurate than 247 but like you said, his prerogative.

[Todd4State]

To me it's amazing that other states can take care of their recruits when its against us, but other schools (especially someone our equal in OM) can invade some states and occasionally take not only a good prospect but an elite one. So either Freeze is the best living room guy in the nation or they are paying double what others are to get them to come there.

It's just frustrating. They go and get hammered by the NCAA and Freeze gets a show cause and all goes back to normal. But that's not going to happen it appears.

So I'm not sure why Mullen is so scared of playing the game, because as others have said, if he really does want to land an elite job he's going to have to up the overall talent level to do it.

I don't know if it's arrogance, not wanting to deal with boosters, or head coaching inexperience initially. Probably a combination of all three. We're really good at recruiting in Mississippi. We just have to do better with the o-line and landing the 2-3 out of state guys that can make a major impact for us.

[Dawgface]

To me it's amazing that other states can take care of their recruits when its against us, but other schools (especially someone our equal in OM) can invade some states and occasionally take not only a good prospect but an elite one. So either Freeze is the best living room guy in the nation or they are paying double what others are to get them to come there.

It's just frustrating. They go and get hammered by the NCAA and Freeze gets a show cause and all goes back to normal. But that's not going to happen it appears.

So I'm not sure why Mullen is so scared of playing the game, because as others have said, if he really does want to land an elite job he's going to have to up the overall talent level to do it.

Perhaps Mullen does want to play the game but is not allowed by the higher ups. Maybe that is why he has been looking for other jobs........

[HoopsDawg]

And we were top 20 in 2012 and 2013. He has averaged about 25.5 over his career and the prior 4 years he has averaged 19.5 in the Scout rankings. You are choosing to ignore the years that don't fit your narrative.

I'm not ignoring anything and I don't have a "narrative". It's just a fact that Mullen has not been able to sign and enroll out of state players rated above 3 stars. How can that even be an argument. Mullen does pretty well in state except for 2 years. Our class ranking will always depend on how many stars Paul and Steve can get the in state guys.

[Really Clark?]

I'm not ignoring anything and I don't have a "narrative". It's just a fact that Mullen has not been able to sign and enroll out of state players rated above 3 stars. How can that even be an argument. Mullen does pretty well in state except for 2 years. Our class ranking will always depend on how many stars Paul and Steve can get the in state guys.

You said he needs to be recruiting around 17-23 every year. He has averaged Top 20 over the last 4 years. He is doing what you are asking. Whether it's in state or out, what does that matter. You think Paul and Steve have more pull to get in state guys ranked too high vs the recruiting guys of Texas, LA, Alabama, Georgia, etc? Please. If anything the sites are giving in state players more accurate ratings now compared to the past.

[HoopsDawg]

You said he needs to be recruiting around 17-23 every year. He has averaged Top 20 over the last 4 years..

No he has not. Quit making shit up. 24th is not averaging Top 20. And those rankings could go down if we don't get Simmons and Brown. Though I do give Paul credit for getting Spencer an extra star. And Davis and Gooden will help our rankings even though they won't enroll.

[Really Clark?]

No he has not. Quit making shit up. 24th is not averaging Top 20. And those rankings could go down if we don't get Simmons and Brown. Though I do give Paul credit for getting Spencer an extra star. And Davis and Gooden will help our rankings even though they won't enroll.

Using scout 3 of the last 4 years inside the Top 20. How did I make that up? I used the site you wanted to use. 18, 20, and 19th in 3 of the last 4 years.

ETA. Scout had us low in 2013 (small class effects rankings as well) while we were 25th by 247. You are picking and choosing which sites to make your case and you are taking their rankings at face value without looking at the players to determine if they were ranked correctly. Bear was ranked low because he was so raw with limited playing time in HS. Can't fault the sites for that but by coming in and getting significant playing time as a true freshman we know that the ranking was too low. Jake Thomas was too high. It's all just opinion but anything from 15-40 it's not a nickel worth of difference in these rankings. It's about evaluations and development by these schools. Maybe that's why a 30-40 avg rated TCU beats the brakes off of UNM and why all those Top 15 Texas classes doesn't have a drafted player in it. Plus the percentage of overrated and ranked Texas players is a pretty percentage. Have be careful who you get over there.

[RealHastings]

Not to hijack the thread, but why can't we all just agree to go by the 247 Composite and be done with it? It takes all major recruiting services into consideration and averages them for one composite score (as I'm sure everyone is aware of this). Just seems most logical that we'd use it to go by.

[Really Clark?]

Not to hijack the thread, but why can't we all just agree to go by the 247 Composite and be done with it? It takes all major recruiting services into consideration and averages them for one composite score (as I'm sure everyone is aware of this). Just seems most logical that we'd use it to go by.

I agree and it's what most go by. I will say I can understand people not wanting the ESPN and to some degree the Rivals rankings because they don't evaluate players from here and other rural spots in the south very well. Rivals still is good in the north and mid-west. And I think players that Luginbill and some others really evaluate from ESPN are fine but they just miss being able to look at a lot of the players. That being said, the composite at least gives you a cross section of evaluations and with higher rated players it's probably pretty close. But we have seen guys that 247 and even Scout rate pretty well down here and the other two pull down their possible composite. Some really prefer to just look at offer lists. Like the big tight end we got this year. Mid 3 star for the most part but he had a very good offer list with many committable offers.

The other part of these rankings is that people get so caught up in 4 star vs 3 star. 90% of these players if we had no ranking number beside their name and just posted videos of their games you couldn't tell hardly any difference between a lot of these guys. Sometimes guys who are really good in smaller schools stand out a bit more. The projection of them against strong competition is the key. Then you have the Chris Jones types. If this was just 7-8 years ago we would have signed him and he would have still been a 2 star maybe 3 star player with the sites. He wasn't any better of a player with the 5 star at the end of his senior year than when we took his commentment as a 2 star the summer before his senior year. Just with the technology out there now, it's easier to send multiple clips to the national guys and get reevaluated. The staff already knew where he was talent wise on our board.

[FISHDAWG]

Who asked ya? Haha... Oops

as was Quay Evans

[Joe Schmedlap]

TCU has done extremely well the last 7 or 8 years and I don't think the Horned Frogs have been consistently signing top 20 classes. Talent evaluation (Stars be damned) and development do make a difference.

Having said that, it is disappointing to me that our program has not been able to cash in last year's magic (#1 for over a month) on an impressive list of early commitments. From an outside perspective, it seems as if we have managed to screw things up internally somehow.

[J Paul Ronvonski III]

TCU has done extremely well the last 7 or 8 years and I don't think the Horned Frogs have been consistently signing top 20 classes. Talent evaluation (Stars be damned) and development do make a difference.

Having said that, it is disappointing to me that our program has not been able to cash in last year's magic (#1 for over a month) on an impressive list of early commitments. From an outside perspective, it seems as if we have managed to screw things up internally somehow.

Even rosebowl has always said after a good year, we would cash in.

[Coach34]

Even rosebowl has always said after a good year, we would cash in.

That has been our normal pattern- until this year

[ShotgunDawg]

That has been our normal pattern- until this year

Rosebowl and Paul would tell you it's because the in-state crop is shallow this year. However, in essence that's our problem. In order to compete in this league, we've got to have top 20 classes every single year and hopefully better. We can't depend on the instate crop to determine our recruiting success. We've got to be able to leave the state and acquire quality players.

Our program is in a real damned if you do, damned if you don't pickle right now.

On one hand, we have an administration that wants to run a squeaky clean program that never flirts with probation, and, on the other hand, we have boosters that clearly understand that this program is about to lose 3-5 straight games to Ole Miss, is falling behind in talent level compared to our competitors, and is stuck, much like Ole Miss was under Cutcliff.

What I don't know is, where Mullen and the staff stands on this issue. I don't know if Mullen wants to be more aggressive in recruiting but is getting shot down by the administration or if Mullen is so arrogant that he believes his 3 stars can beat Ole Miss, Alabama, and LSU's 1st rounders.

What is clear though is that we've either got to get more aggressive in the recruiting trail and risk getting caught or the same people that want to run a squeaky clean program get fired because they lost to Ole Miss 5 years in a row. It's a damned it you do, damned if you don't situation.

We've got to get better players to have any shot at beating Alabama, Ole Miss, or LSU and having a chance to win a championship. So, unless someone can find a solution of how we are going to do that, you may as well prepare yourself to be a 7-9 win program that never has a chance to win a championship.

Our program is at a cross roads right now. We've got a great coach but unless we get more aggressive on the recruiting trail and get our boosters organized, the best coach we've had in my lifetime will get fired because he lost to his rival 5 years in a row. At this current rate, we have zero chance of competing with them.

Nice guys finish last in college football. As long as everyone is ok getting their ass kicked by Ole Miss, Alabama, and LSU, we can continue to operate at status quo, but, if you want to win a championship, there has to be philosophical changes at different levels of the university.

[Todd4State]

Rosebowl and Paul would tell you it's because the in-state crop is shallow this year. However, in essence that's our problem. In order to compete in this league, we've got to have top 20 classes every single year and hopefully better. We can't depend on the instate crop to determine our recruiting success. We've got to be able to leave the state and acquire quality players.

Our program is in a real damned if you do, damned if you don't pickle right now.

On one hand, we have an administration that wants to run a squeaky clean program that never flirts with probation, and, on the other hand, we have boosters that clearly understand that this program is about to lose 3-5 straight games to Ole Miss, is falling behind in talent level compared to our competitors, and is stuck, much like Ole Miss was under Cutcliff.

What I don't know is, where Mullen and the staff stands on this issue. I don't know if Mullen wants to be more aggressive in recruiting but is getting shot down by the administration or if Mullen is so arrogant that he believes his 3 stars can beat Ole Miss, Alabama, and LSU's 1st rounders.

What is clear though is that we've either got to get more aggressive in the recruiting trail and risk getting caught or the same people that want to run a squeaky clean program get fired because they lost to Ole Miss 5 years in a row. It's a damned it you do, damned if you don't situation.

We've got to get better players to have any shot at beating Alabama, Ole Miss, or LSU and having a chance to win a championship. So, unless someone can find a solution of how we are going to do that, you may as well prepare yourself to be a 7-9 win program that never has a chance to win a championship.

Our program is at a cross roads right now. We've got a great coach but unless we get more aggressive on the recruiting trail and get our boosters organized, the best coach we've had in my lifetime will get fired because he lost to his rival 5 years in a row. At this current rate, we have zero chance of competing with them.

Nice guys finish last in college football. As long as everyone is ok getting their ass kicked by Ole Miss, Alabama, and LSU, we can continue to operate at status quo, but, if you want to win a championship, there has to be philosophical changes at different levels of the university.

Grand slam post.

And since we are talking about our "program history"- the last two coaches that lost to Ole Miss three times in a row were asked to leave. That was in the 80's.