Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)

[mstatefan91]

Just got finished seeing it. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Not sure where it ranks among the original trilogy. Better than Return of the Jedi for sure but maybe not quite on par with The Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope (will have to see it again).

Pros
Less usage of CGI
Less choreographed light saber battles
More costume and make up (again less CGI)

Cons
Might have pushed a little too hard for the nostalgia at certain times
Luke doesn't show up until the end. I get that it is part of the overall story but I wanted Luke to play a larger role (he might never play a large role again though)

Interesting setup with the Dark vs Light this time around. Lots of political nuances and religious undertones.

Bottom line: good movie. The best since the original trilogy. Interested to see where it goes.

[archdog]

I will add that I think it may be the best one of the 7. It is either 1 or 2 behind ESB. Considering the number of characters they introduced, the new story line, the expectations, and the tie in to the older movies.... it's hard not to be really impressed with how they handled almost every aspect of the film.

They have expanded the role of the storm trooper, bringing one into the main character arc with his own psychological issues. The entire scene when Rey (Ray?) touches the light saber for the first time was really well done. Han and his family story was interesting in the path to the dark side. Luke hiding out the whole movie, just sets up the story line for the next two movies. Why was he gone for so long? Was he looking for the "light" counterpart to the supreme leader? Why didn't Luke show Leia how to use the force after all these years? She obviously knows how to use it to some extent.

All in all, I give the movie a 10. Well done. Can they go back and remake 1-3 and pretend like the other ones were never made?

[PassInterference]

Best writing yet in a Star Wars movie. Best character development. Best humor.

But the plot. Damn. Why did they have to make it a do-over of the first movie?

Droid carrying important info that the bad guys want.

Bad guys have a massive planet-destroying weapon.

Good guys have to go blow it up, but not before an important character gets killed in a showdown with the super bad guy.

And good guys have to disable the shields first. Can't forget that.

Insert scene with heights and a narrow walkway.

Really, I'm not sure if the plot was serious or a parody.

[mstatefan91]

Best writing yet in a Star Wars movie. Best character development. Best humor.

But the plot. Damn. Why did they have to make it a do-over of the first movie?

Droid carrying important info that the bad guys want.

Bad guys have a massive planet-destroying weapon.

Good guys have to go blow it up, but not before an important character gets killed in a showdown with the super bad guy.

And good guys have to disable the shields first. Can't forget that.

Insert scene with heights and a narrow walkway.

Really, I'm not sure if the plot was serious or a parody.

I think it's the sub plots that set it apart. Remember, A New Hope and Return of the Jedi are basically the same arc as well. Disable shields, take out death star.

I will say that they followed the original recipe to a T. I think that was done on purpose to get people to realize what Star Wars wad intended to be originally. It will diversify and make itself stand out as an original story line as the movies go I think (2 more to do so).

I want to know more about Rey's background. There is obviously more to it. Something tells me she's related to one of the new storm troopers. I'm not sure though.

Again, good movie. Need to see it again. First impression is they were trying to set the foundation.

[archdog]

In the movie, they reference that Rey has her father's and grandfather's light saber. It calls out for her. So... I would venture to say that she is Luke's daughter. She has the natural technical knowledge like Anakin, as she displays her knowledge of complex mechanical systems throughout the movie.

They were definitely trying to set the foundation for the end game. I will probably go back tonight to see it again for good measure.

[Tbonewannabe]

I am thinking that Kylo killed Luke's wife along with the other young jedi similar to Darth Vader's path to the dark side. Luke drops off his daughter somewhere similar to where he grew up so Kylo can't find her. He would want to turn her to the dark side or kill her. If he left her with Leia she wouldn't have been hidden. Kylo can read almost anyone mind so he would find her. The only reason Rey resists is she actually seems stronger in the force.

[mstatefan91]

In the movie, they reference that Rey has her father's and grandfather's light saber. It calls out for her. So... I would venture to say that she is Luke's daughter. She has the natural technical knowledge like Anakin, as she displays her knowledge of complex mechanical systems throughout the movie.

They were definitely trying to set the foundation for the end game. I will probably go back tonight to see it again for good measure.
Very true. That was alluded to. They also showed what appeared to be a flashback scene of her family being taken from her, and I couldn't help but think that was the first order taking one or more of her siblings away as "recruits."

Or what Tbonewannabe says. That would be classic Star Wars and seems very plausible.

Let us know what you think after the 2nd watch.

[BrunswickDawg]

In the movie, they reference that Rey has her father's and grandfather's light saber. It calls out for her. So... I would venture to say that she is Luke's daughter. She has the natural technical knowledge like Anakin, as she displays her knowledge of complex mechanical systems throughout the movie.

They were definitely trying to set the foundation for the end game. I will probably go back tonight to see it again for good measure.
My son and I said the same thing after last night. It makes sense with the whole light/dark running through the same family the way it has. A generational struggle with which path to take.

[archdog]

I believe that flashback could be Luke leaving her there, and her fighting to go with him. Either way, the trailer with Luke saying that the force is strong with his family. His father had it, he has it, his sister has it, and his kids have it. Plus that would make Kylo and Rey 1st cousins about the same age.
As a bonus, I believe the storm trooper Fin also has the force with him. No other way he could hang with a jedi in a light saber fight if he didn't. Reflexes would be too slow.

I am wondering, Han said something about Luke going to find the first Jedi temple. Maybe there is a being like the Dark Supreme Leader, but for good. I am going to make a leap here, but what if the Supreme Leader guy killed the "Light Supreme being" and that disruption in the force is what caused Anakin to be born. Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo being as powerful as a team as the supreme leader guy? No idea, just wondering about he timing of the birth of Anakin versus all of this.

[mstatefan91]

I believe that flashback could be Luke leaving her there, and her fighting to go with him. Either way, the trailer with Luke saying that the force is strong with his family. His father had it, he has it, his sister has it, and his kids have it. Plus that would make Kylo and Rey 1st cousins about the same age.
As a bonus, I believe the storm trooper Fin also has the force with him. No other way he could hang with a jedi in a light saber fight if he didn't. Reflexes would be too slow.

I am wondering, Han said something about Luke going to find the first Jedi temple. Maybe there is a being like the Dark Supreme Leader, but for good. I am going to make a leap here, but what if the Supreme Leader guy killed the "Light Supreme being" and that disruption in the force is what caused Anakin to be born. Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo being as powerful as a team as the supreme leader guy? No idea, just wondering about he timing of the birth of Anakin versus all of this.


So much for Anakin restoring balance to the force, huh? lol

[Blackout]

How does the dark side have the economic power to build two Death Stars and now this death planet?

And opposing them is a crew with 30 or so X wing fighters? I mean if they can build a death planet surely they can have 10,000 fighters to take on the 30 X wings.

The whole Star Wars saga doesn't rise to the "awesomeness" that many make it out to be for me for reasons like that. This movie in particular had too much forced nostalgia as was mentioned before. I don't know. It's entertaining but maybe I was expecting a lot more and it felt too "meh". Maybe the similarities to IV added to that.

[Uncle Ruckus]

This isn't Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. It's not an intricately thought plot that keeps your mind at its peak the entire movie. You're not suppose to think about the realism. It's set in space for Christ's sake. It's a story about a group of unlikely kids taking about some super bad asses and one of the bad asses may redeem himself. Give me a break.

[Dawgology]

Just got finished seeing it. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Not sure where it ranks among the original trilogy. Better than Return of the Jedi for sure but maybe not quite on par with The Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope (will have to see it again).

Pros
Less usage of CGI
Less choreographed light saber battles
More costume and make up (again less CGI)

Cons
Might have pushed a little too hard for the nostalgia at certain times
Luke doesn't show up until the end. I get that it is part of the overall story but I wanted Luke to play a larger role (he might never play a large role again though)

Interesting setup with the Dark vs Light this time around. Lots of political nuances and religious undertones.

Bottom line: good movie. The best since the original trilogy. Interested to see where it goes.

I think, after the prequels, they had to reset the series and get it back to normal. That is what this movie did. It reset the series back to what Star Wars is. The same writer that did Empire Strikes Back actually wrote this movie so it is a great script...probably the best since Empire. My tastes is Star Wars movies runs a little different than most as Return of the Jedi is my favorite but, in my defense, it was the first movie I saw at the age of 5 in the theater...so it has an impact. That being said I would rank this one right there with Return of the Jedi and Empire Strikes Back. I'll go back and watch again...at least once or twice.

[Uncivilengineer]

I loved it. Light saber duels weren't over the top and super choreographed. Great plot, even if a little to familiar. It had a lot more happen in the movie than I guessed would. It sure made me feel 10 again.

[BeardoMSU]

I thought it was as good as a it could be, honestly. I absolutely loved it. Yes, some plot aspects were recycled (e.g., deathstar/star-killer), but this movie delivered soooo much emotion, more than any other Star Wars film since Ep. IV and V.

[War Machine Dawg]

Loved it. I'll be honest, I think the prequels catch too much flak sometimes. Yes, they had their really shitty moments. But they had their good points, too, and no one wants to acknowledge them. That said, TFA absolutely nailed it. This is the movie fans have been wanting. JJ & crew delivered.

I think Rey is either a Solo or a Skywalker. There are hints in both directions. I loved the various nods to the past and the EU. The revelation of Kylo actually being Ben Solo was the highlight of the film to me.

Don't know why so many of you disliked the choreographed saber battles from the prequels. For me, they were far and away the best feature of those films, especially the final fight between Anakin/Vader & Obi-wan. It was the height of the Jedi at their peak, trained in the art of combat. It makes total sense that they could do way more than someone untrained like Luke in the original trilogy or Rey in this movie. I think we'll get better, more extended fights as the trilogy progresses.

Granted, I seem to be younger than most of you in this thread, but that's my take. Now the long wait until March '17. I'll definitely be seeing TFA in the theater again at least one more time.

[civildawg]

Watched it for a second time last night and liked it even more than the first time. I thought it was way too close to a new hope but on second viewing I realized it wasn't as much as I thought

[Blackout]

Does it seem weird or forced that the son of Han Solo and Princess Leia turns out to be this monster? I'm sorry but it just doesn't pass the smell test. Yeah I get that Vader is gandad but still.. Obviously growing up better than any kid in the galaxy.

Too much harking back and nostalgia I'm sorry to say. It was awesome and new until Han and Chewie showed up and the forced humor and forced nostalgia meters turned up to 10. I really think it diminishes the movie. It should have been much more new kid focused and forward looking. The plot is fine with Lost Luke and everything but maybe it would have been a lot better if the First Order wasn't THAT strong by this time. I mean come on, they have a death planet and the resistance has 30 X wings.

A more balanced fight between the Resistance and Order would have been much better. Not this crazy powerful death planet. The Ben Solo turned evil plot actually could have worked if he was seeking his own coup takeover of the New Republic. Maybe he got tired of being the Prince and wanted power for himself.. Think feuding Royal families of old Europe. He gathers together a following and tries to overthrow the government. Maybe he leaves to do this or maybe he's on the inside and turns the Saber on his father and mother at the end! Han gets killed Leia severely wounded - we won't know the fate of the New Republic until Episode 8!

That would have been a much better plot and I just came up with it in 10 minutes unlike Abrams who recycled A New Hope.

[Coach007]

1- saw it on a 6 story screen. The Imax! Loved it.

2- I know the talk is about Rey, but let's talk fin...., I'm not so sure he isn't the brother of Rey!

3- some after thoughts.... It's needed, but a star wars film without the empire.... Kinda sad. LOL! The death of solo. Again, needed for the story, but dang.... Couldn't we have waited until the next one..? Build that up more?


Over all.... Great movie

[Political Hack]

So much for Anakin restoring balance to the force, huh? lol

The Jedi were in control of the force. There was no balance between good and evil. Anakin turning to the dark side made it balanced. The prophecy was true. They just misread it.

[Political Hack]

I liked how they played up the first order as an analogy to the first reich/ eventual natzi Germany.

Kylo being a major puss was a turn off for me. That was the only major disappointment though from me. Plus, they are set to "finish his training" now. He should be a supreme bad ass come episode 8. Other than that, I too felt like I was watching episode 4 again. They used damn near the exact same plot line and just introduced new twists to it. It was very simple, but it worked well.

Loved the new characters. all of them. Also loved the old characters still being involved. I thought it appealed to the old fans and newer generation too. Rea is a bad ass. Wasn't sure a female Jedi could play the role of standing up to Kylo, but she did it and did it well.

The comedic relief through the droids and Fin was also great. I hated the cheesiness of Jar Jar. It was awful and damn near ruined the that whole movie.

Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back???

[mstatefan91]

The Jedi were in control of the force. There was no balance between good and evil. Anakin turning to the dark side made it balanced. The prophecy was true. They just misread it.

Not really. Seeing as he helped track down all of the jedi, murdered them, and the dark side was the only thing going for like 30 years. That's not balance.

[War Machine Dawg]

Not really. Seeing as he helped track down all of the jedi, murdered them, and the dark side was the only thing going for like 30 years. That's not balance.

Lucas himself said the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin killed Palpatine and ultimately died himself. The Sith were no more, for however brief a period of time. Thus, he fulfilled the prophecy. Now we're getting the distinction between Sith and Dark Jedi. I'm excited to see where they take it.

[Todd4State]

I think it's the sub plots that set it apart. Remember, A New Hope and Return of the Jedi are basically the same arc as well. Disable shields, take out death star.

I will say that they followed the original recipe to a T. I think that was done on purpose to get people to realize what Star Wars wad intended to be originally. It will diversify and make itself stand out as an original story line as the movies go I think (2 more to do so).

I want to know more about Rey's background. There is obviously more to it. Something tells me she's related to one of the new storm troopers. I'm not sure though.

Again, good movie. Need to see it again. First impression is they were trying to set the foundation.

I think they stuck to "what works" because of all the fanboys out there that railed on the PT. Not a bad idea- they actually kind of spun off of the EU which I wished that they hadn't done where Han and Leia have a child (Jacean- I HATE that name I think because it sounds like some Ole Miss frat boy) who turns to the Dark Side. Not that I disliked the story-I just would have liked to have seen something new that hadn't been thought of before. At least they named Han and Leia's son Ben instead of Jacean- so I could live with it at least. I'm not a fanboy that gets his underoos in a wad because of silly little things. I really enjoyed the movie overall.

I am about 90% sure that Rey is Luke's daughter, 8% sure it's Han and Leia's daughter, and 2% sure she is something that is neither. The thing that no one is talking about with her is the connection between her and Lor Son Tekka, Max Von Sydow's character who gets murdered at the beginning by Kyle Ren. No is talking about him- but I think he is going to end up being extremely important. He knows who Kyle Ren is, he knows his background and who his parents are, and Luke trusted him enough to safeguard the missing piece of the map to the original Jedi temple. But not a lot is said about him. I don't think it's a coincidence that he and Rey just happen to be on the same planet. My guess is Lor Son Tekka was supposed to kind of watch over Rey sort of like Obi Won Kenobi watched over Luke until "the time came".

My guess is Rey was abandoned after Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's new Jedi order and Luke knew that he had to hide her so that she wouldn't be killed or turned to the Dark Side. I think Rey is going to ultimately end up having to confront Kylo Ren again and Luke is going to confront Supreme Leader Snoke, who I think is probably Darth Plageius in some grand finale in Episode IX.

If Rey is Luke's daughter, that means that Luke has a significant other. And I wonder who that could be? Probably someone we haven't been introduced yet unless it's something way out there. If that theory is true, then Luke might have felt that his new Jedi Order was destroyed in part because of him having a significant other (Jedi no no) which might explain another reason for abandoning his daughter and going into seclusion.

Also, how in the hell did Poe Dameron escape from Jakku? One minute it looks like he abandons Finn and then the next thing you know he shows up with a squad of X-Wing fighters at Maz Kanata's castle.

But yes, GREAT movie and I enjoyed it.

[Todd4State]

I believe that flashback could be Luke leaving her there, and her fighting to go with him. Either way, the trailer with Luke saying that the force is strong with his family. His father had it, he has it, his sister has it, and his kids have it. Plus that would make Kylo and Rey 1st cousins about the same age.
As a bonus, I believe the storm trooper Fin also has the force with him. No other way he could hang with a jedi in a light saber fight if he didn't. Reflexes would be too slow.

I am wondering, Han said something about Luke going to find the first Jedi temple. Maybe there is a being like the Dark Supreme Leader, but for good. I am going to make a leap here, but what if the Supreme Leader guy killed the "Light Supreme being" and that disruption in the force is what caused Anakin to be born. Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo being as powerful as a team as the supreme leader guy? No idea, just wondering about he timing of the birth of Anakin versus all of this.

I think Snoke is Darth Plageius because he allegedly learned how to cheat death, and was probably at least a little pissed off that Palpatine tried to kill him to rule the universe. I think he let Palpatine do his dirty work and if he had killed off all of the Jedi was going to come out of hiding and kill Palpatine himself and take over. And then Luke kind of messed all that up....

So Snoke then went after Ben Solo and seduced him to the Dark Side and Plageius is going to have to do all the work himself for the most part. I think Luke is going to have to learn how to cheat death or find some way to destroy him using the Force or something like that.

[Todd4State]

Loved it. I'll be honest, I think the prequels catch too much flak sometimes. Yes, they had their really shitty moments. But they had their good points, too, and no one wants to acknowledge them. That said, TFA absolutely nailed it. This is the movie fans have been wanting. JJ & crew delivered.

I think Rey is either a Solo or a Skywalker. There are hints in both directions. I loved the various nods to the past and the EU. The revelation of Kylo actually being Ben Solo was the highlight of the film to me.

Don't know why so many of you disliked the choreographed saber battles from the prequels. For me, they were far and away the best feature of those films, especially the final fight between Anakin/Vader & Obi-wan. It was the height of the Jedi at their peak, trained in the art of combat. It makes total sense that they could do way more than someone untrained like Luke in the original trilogy or Rey in this movie. I think we'll get better, more extended fights as the trilogy progresses.

Granted, I seem to be younger than most of you in this thread, but that's my take. Now the long wait until March '17. I'll definitely be seeing TFA in the theater again at least one more time.

I don't hate the PT either. I think the problem was George Lucas thought that fans liked the special effects aspect and the goofy kid stuff like the Ewoks more than the story and the characters itself. The same movies with less CGI, and maybe about half as much senate stuff, and half as much Anakain/Padame romance stuff- which sounded like an awkward teenage boy or someone into renaissance fairs wrote it- and everything probably would have been pretty well received.

[Todd4State]

I liked how they played up the first order as an analogy to the first reich/ eventual natzi Germany.

Kylo being a major puss was a turn off for me. That was the only major disappointment though from me. Plus, they are set to "finish his training" now. He should be a supreme bad ass come episode 8. Other than that, I too felt like I was watching episode 4 again. They used damn near the exact same plot line and just introduced new twists to it. It was very simple, but it worked well.

Loved the new characters. all of them. Also loved the old characters still being involved. I thought it appealed to the old fans and newer generation too. Rea is a bad ass. Wasn't sure a female Jedi could play the role of standing up to Kylo, but she did it and did it well.

The comedic relief through the droids and Fin was also great. I hated the cheesiness of Jar Jar. It was awful and damn near ruined the that whole movie.

Episode 8: The First Order Strikes Back???

I don't think Kylo was a major puss. He took a shot from Chewy and still was able to respectably fight Finn and Rey. He's just untrained and conflicted more than anything. Rey knew how to fight because that was how she survived on Jakku- plus she had enough raw knowledge of the Force to get by against an untrained Dark Side user. I think he just got more than he bargained for when he went up against Rey- because again, she knew how to fight.

[Todd4State]

Lucas himself said the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin killed Palpatine and ultimately died himself. The Sith were no more, for however brief a period of time. Thus, he fulfilled the prophecy. Now we're getting the distinction between Sith and Dark Jedi. I'm excited to see where they take it.

I think that is going to be re-written and it's going to end up being either Luke or Rey who is the "Chosen One".

[PassInterference]

The Jedi were in control of the force. There was no balance between good and evil. Anakin turning to the dark side made it balanced. The prophecy was true. They just misread it.

Wow. That's a deep thought.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think they stuck to "what works" because of all the fanboys out there that railed on the PT. Not a bad idea- they actually kind of spun off of the EU which I wished that they hadn't done where Han and Leia have a child (Jacean- I HATE that name I think because it sounds like some Ole Miss frat boy) who turns to the Dark Side. Not that I disliked the story-I just would have liked to have seen something new that hadn't been thought of before. At least they named Han and Leia's son Ben instead of Jacean- so I could live with it at least. I'm not a fanboy that gets his underoos in a wad because of silly little things. I really enjoyed the movie overall.

I am about 90% sure that Rey is Luke's daughter, 8% sure it's Han and Leia's daughter, and 2% sure she is something that is neither. The thing that no one is talking about with her is the connection between her and Lor Son Tekka, Max Von Sydow's character who gets murdered at the beginning by Kyle Ren. No is talking about him- but I think he is going to end up being extremely important. He knows who Kyle Ren is, he knows his background and who his parents are, and Luke trusted him enough to safeguard the missing piece of the map to the original Jedi temple. But not a lot is said about him. I don't think it's a coincidence that he and Rey just happen to be on the same planet. My guess is Lor Son Tekka was supposed to kind of watch over Rey sort of like Obi Won Kenobi watched over Luke until "the time came".

My guess is Rey was abandoned after Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's new Jedi order and Luke knew that he had to hide her so that she wouldn't be killed or turned to the Dark Side. I think Rey is going to ultimately end up having to confront Kylo Ren again and Luke is going to confront Supreme Leader Snoke, who I think is probably Darth Plageius in some grand finale in Episode IX.

If Rey is Luke's daughter, that means that Luke has a significant other. And I wonder who that could be? Probably someone we haven't been introduced yet unless it's something way out there. If that theory is true, then Luke might have felt that his new Jedi Order was destroyed in part because of him having a significant other (Jedi no no) which might explain another reason for abandoning his daughter and going into seclusion.

Also, how in the hell did Poe Dameron escape from Jakku? One minute it looks like he abandons Finn and then the next thing you know he shows up with a squad of X-Wing fighters at Maz Kanata's castle.

But yes, GREAT movie and I enjoyed it.

I'm hoping like hell that IF Rey is Luke's daughter, they'll canonize Mara Jade as her mother. She was easily the most popular EU character and the only EU character to ever be listed in the Top 10 for favorite Star Wars characters. I also liked the suggestion that Rey's mother is killed when The Seven attack Luke's Jedi Academy. I could definitely see them taking it that direction to make everyone hate Kylo/Ben that much more.

Btw, since you mentioned it, I loved all the nods to the EU. Luke & Mara had a son named Ben, so they essentially used his name for Han & Leia's son in TFA.

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't hate the PT either. I think the problem was George Lucas thought that fans liked the special effects aspect and the goofy kid stuff like the Ewoks more than the story and the characters itself. The same movies with less CGI, and maybe about half as much senate stuff, and half as much Anakain/Padame romance stuff- which sounded like an awkward teenage boy or someone into renaissance fairs wrote it- and everything probably would have been pretty well received.

My take on the PT is pretty simple: The story ideas themselves were epic. The Sith, through thousands of years of plotting and the implementation of the Rule of Two, worked to take control of the galaxy politically and eliminate the Jedi. They would be opposed by the Chosen One. The political machinations of Palpatine and the way he manipulated everyone was amazing.

It went wrong when Lucas refused to employ a script writer. The dialogue needed to be completely rewritten. No one talks that way, and Harrison Ford told Lucas as much back when they were filming the OT. They also needed to re-cast the role of Anakin. But let's be fair to Hayden Christensen - he was much, much better in Episode III, in part because the script was better with less awful dialogue.

I also get why Lucas created Jar Jar - he wanted a character that was kid friendly. It was a gigantic mistake, but I see the reasoning. Note this isn't a defense of Jar Jar - he needed to die in the slowest, most painful way imaginable. His presence made the PT so toxic that no one was going to admit to enjoying the good elements of the PT. It was a total failure in understanding your fan base.

Another big gripe is how Lucas completely wasted one of the coolest villains we've seen in Maul. He had this epic look and wielded that awesome dual-bladed saber. Killing him off so quickly and cheaply just flat sucked. They should've had a power struggle between he & Dooku over who became Palpatine's true apprentice.

That's my thoughts on the subject, at least. Fixing the dialoge alone would eliminate probably 90% of the non-Jar Jar bitching.

[Blackout]

Still should have been a more balanced fight, aka better story.

Ben grows up the black sheep. Hates his parents having all the glory. Hates being "equal" to the others Luke is training. Hell this is Han Solo's kid why should be be equal to these other twerps. Wants too much too soon. Seduced by the power of the dark side. Offers other trainees the option of converting with him or be killed. Thus the Knights of Ren are born. Luke walks in on the carnage and has an epic battle with all of the Knights. Its a draw, the Knights leave vowing they will eventually kill Luke and take power in the galaxy.

The Knights then spread out conquering lands one by one until they have amassed a Republic sized opposition. Luke knows a war now would leave the good guys in serious jeopardy so he goes into hiding throwing off the plans for domination and instead focusing Ren on the wild goose chase of finding and killing Luke because he knows as long as he's out there he could be training new recruits to eventually take away his power.

There is a secret map to Luke just in case they begin the epic Knights vs Republic battle and he's needed but it must be kept secret. And this is where you begin with Finn, Rey, BB8 and the gang.

Like the Empire represented the Cold War of the 70's, this is a perfect analogy to the war with radical Islam today. Start small, convert or be killed, amass a following until large enough to strike. Would have been a stroke of genius that would cement JJ Abrams in history.

[sleepy dawg]

I loved it, but then again, I love all 7 episodes, unlike most. I think the reason they didn't do anything new is because they did that with 1-3 and everyone was pissed it wasn't exactly what they were expecting. Most people don't like change, and the changes in 1-3 were large. All I want is a good movie, and I don't care how they achieve it. All 7 star wars rank in my top 50 of favorite movies, and I am very much looking forward to 8.

[mstatefan91]

The problem with the PT is Jar Jar, dialogue, CGI, and complete character break downs. I mean... Padme is a freaking pacifist but she still marries Anakin after he murders all of the sand people (and he tells her point blank)??? Yeah... OK.

So, Anakin does that but then he's ok for another few years before he ultimately snaps? lol wut?

[War Machine Dawg]

Still should have been a more balanced fight, aka better story.

Ben grows up the black sheep. Hates his parents having all the glory. Hates being "equal" to the others Luke is training. Hell this is Han Solo's kid why should be be equal to these other twerps. Wants too much too soon. Seduced by the power of the dark side. Offers other trainees the option of converting with him or be killed. Thus the Knights of Ren are born. Luke walks in on the carnage and has an epic battle with all of the Knights. Its a draw, the Knights leave vowing they will eventually kill Luke and take power in the galaxy.

The Knights then spread out conquering lands one by one until they have amassed a Republic sized opposition. Luke knows a war now would leave the good guys in serious jeopardy so he goes into hiding throwing off the plans for domination and instead focusing Ren on the wild goose chase of finding and killing Luke because he knows as long as he's out there he could be training new recruits to eventually take away his power.

There is a secret map to Luke just in case they begin the epic Knights vs Republic battle and he's needed but it must be kept secret. And this is where you begin with Finn, Rey, BB8 and the gang.

Like the Empire represented the Cold War of the 70's, this is a perfect analogy to the war with radical Islam today. Start small, convert or be killed, amass a following until large enough to strike. Would have been a stroke of genius that would cement JJ Abrams in history.

Dude, calm the f down. That's probably exactly how they'll develop it over the course of VIII & IX. This movie was just an introduction of the new group and a farewell to some of the old group. There are 3 movies to develop these characters. Revealing Kylo is actually Ben Solo was so huge they didn't really need to do much else. You're wanting too much too soon. Just let it play out.

Also, noticed JJ says the script for VIII is so good he's pissed he isn't directing it. That makes me all giddy.

[Blackout]

Dude, calm the f down. That's probably exactly how they'll develop it over the course of VIII & IX. This movie was just an introduction of the new group and a farewell to some of the old group. There are 3 movies to develop these characters. Revealing Kylo is actually Ben Solo was so huge they didn't really need to do much else. You're wanting too much too soon. Just let it play out.

Also, noticed JJ says the script for VIII is so good he's pissed he isn't directing it. That makes me all giddy.

Yes but my way is more compelling with an even matchup and Kylo is the boss hog revolutionary. Not a pawn for an already dominant force with a death planet going up against 30 X wings..

Could have started with Kylo and the boys taking over places, looking for Luke, without the reveal of WHY he became bad. That could have still waited till Episode VIII. Just saying the Death Planet and Supreme Leader isn't my cup of tea. Let's go more of the Civil War, radical Islam spread convert or die theme. Resistance could pop up on these new places too leading to the battle scenes that are necessary.

[mstatefan91]

Dude, calm the f down. That's probably exactly how they'll develop it over the course of VIII & IX. This movie was just an introduction of the new group and a farewell to some of the old group. There are 3 movies to develop these characters. Revealing Kylo is actually Ben Solo was so huge they didn't really need to do much else. You're wanting too much too soon. Just let it play out.

Also, noticed JJ says the script for VIII is so good he's pissed he isn't directing it. That makes me all giddy.
It makes me mad that JJ isn't directing all of them.

[Todd4State]

I'm hoping like hell that IF Rey is Luke's daughter, they'll canonize Mara Jade as her mother. She was easily the most popular EU character and the only EU character to ever be listed in the Top 10 for favorite Star Wars characters. I also liked the suggestion that Rey's mother is killed when The Seven attack Luke's Jedi Academy. I could definitely see them taking it that direction to make everyone hate Kylo/Ben that much more.

Btw, since you mentioned it, I loved all the nods to the EU. Luke & Mara had a son named Ben, so they essentially used his name for Han & Leia's son in TFA.

I think if she is Luke's daughter they will have a Mara Jade character just by a different name. Like they did with Ben Solo instead of Jacean. They pretty much have to since Disney denounced the old EU as canon. It's not too surprising that they took aspects that a lot of fans liked about it and used it but changed it up some.

[Todd4State]

My take on the PT is pretty simple: The story ideas themselves were epic. The Sith, through thousands of years of plotting and the implementation of the Rule of Two, worked to take control of the galaxy politically and eliminate the Jedi. They would be opposed by the Chosen One. The political machinations of Palpatine and the way he manipulated everyone was amazing.

It went wrong when Lucas refused to employ a script writer. The dialogue needed to be completely rewritten. No one talks that way, and Harrison Ford told Lucas as much back when they were filming the OT. They also needed to re-cast the role of Anakin. But let's be fair to Hayden Christensen - he was much, much better in Episode III, in part because the script was better with less awful dialogue.

I also get why Lucas created Jar Jar - he wanted a character that was kid friendly. It was a gigantic mistake, but I see the reasoning. Note this isn't a defense of Jar Jar - he needed to die in the slowest, most painful way imaginable. His presence made the PT so toxic that no one was going to admit to enjoying the good elements of the PT. It was a total failure in understanding your fan base.

Another big gripe is how Lucas completely wasted one of the coolest villains we've seen in Maul. He had this epic look and wielded that awesome dual-bladed saber. Killing him off so quickly and cheaply just flat sucked. They should've had a power struggle between he & Dooku over who became Palpatine's true apprentice.

That's my thoughts on the subject, at least. Fixing the dialoge alone would eliminate probably 90% of the non-Jar Jar bitching.

Plus it has to be hard to act in front of a green screen all the time where you have no idea as an actor what the heck is going on. It's a shame JJ didn't do the PT.

Agree about Darth Maul. I like the Maul vs. Dooku angle too.

[Todd4State]

Yes but my way is more compelling with an even matchup and Kylo is the boss hog revolutionary. Not a pawn for an already dominant force with a death planet going up against 30 X wings..

Could have started with Kylo and the boys taking over places, looking for Luke, without the reveal of WHY he became bad. That could have still waited till Episode VIII. Just saying the Death Planet and Supreme Leader isn't my cup of tea. Let's go more of the Civil War, radical Islam spread convert or die theme. Resistance could pop up on these new places too leading to the battle scenes that are necessary.

I wouldn't be surprised if the StarKiller base is the last Death Star we see. Simply because the main complaint I have heard about the TFA is about "oh- another Death Star. Great." I wouldn't be surprised if there is another one either- but I'm leaning towards them going in a different direction most likely.

[Todd4State]

The problem with the PT is Jar Jar, dialogue, CGI, and complete character break downs. I mean... Padme is a freaking pacifist but she still marries Anakin after he murders all of the sand people (and he tells her point blank)??? Yeah... OK.

So, Anakin does that but then he's ok for another few years before he ultimately snaps? lol wut?

Anakin killing the sand people was justifiable on many levels though. They tortured and killed his Mom- whom he had to helplessly watch die in his arms. And I'm guessing that Sand People aren't very highly thought of in general when it comes to the Star Wars universe too- they're basically savages and thieves based on how they are presented.

It certainly wasn't the "Jedi Way" but it wasn't like he just woke up and decided to murder a bunch of sand people either.

[mstatefan91]

Anakin killing the sand people was justifiable on many levels though. They tortured and killed his Mom- whom he had to helplessly watch die in his arms. And I'm guessing that Sand People aren't very highly thought of in general when it comes to the Star Wars universe too- they're basically savages and thieves based on how they are presented.

It certainly wasn't the "Jedi Way" but it wasn't like he just woke up and decided to murder a bunch of sand people either.

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."

Sorry. Don't buy it. Padme, as a character, valued all life. She wouldn't be cool with Anakin killing every single sand person of that particular tribe just because they had his mom. She wouldn't buy that the children were guilty anyway.

And no, he didn't wake up and decide to murder the sand people, but HE DID MURDER THE SAND PEOPLE.

You don't just shrug that off and decide that you are gonna be a good guy for a few more years. Not in the Star Wars universe anyway.


Keep in mind that Jedi were not supposed to grow attached to anyone or anything. Anakin did that with his mom and Padme. Jedi were not supposed to kill out of hate or revenge. Anakin did that. In short, I guess it could be argued that Anakin was never anything close to a Jedi. So, did the council really f*ck up the prophecy that bad or was the story that bad? I think the story was just that bad. Could the council not sense that Anakin was overly attached to Padme or that he had just murdered dozens (or more) "innocent" lives? The story of the PT was f*cked from the word Jar. That's just the case.

[Intramural All-American]

Rewatched episode 7 tonight. Two things that I noticed that I didn't notice the first time through that make me think Rey is much more known in the Jedi community than just a random foreigner.
1) when the first order crewman comes to tell Kylo Ren that the Droid and Fin escaped, he then tells him that a girl was with them. At this point, Kylo draws him in and chokes him and yells "What Girl?" As if he is aware of Rey's existence.

2) At the end after destroying the Death Star and the resistance returning to Leia, Leia is waiting for Rey and they share a huge embrace. However, to that point in the movie they had never met as Rey had been taken hostage by the time Leia entered the picture.

Both of these may be completely insignificant, but it is two things I noticed.

[War Machine Dawg]

Rewatched episode 7 tonight. Two things that I noticed that I didn't notice the first time through that make me think Rey is much more known in the Jedi community than just a random foreigner.
1) when the first order crewman comes to tell Kylo Ren that the Droid and Fin escaped, he then tells him that a girl was with them. At this point, Kylo draws him in and chokes him and yells "What Girl?" As if he is aware of Rey's existence.

2) At the end after destroying the Death Star and the resistance returning to Leia, Leia is waiting for Rey and they share a huge embrace. However, to that point in the movie they had never met as Rey had been taken hostage by the time Leia entered the picture.

Both of these may be completely insignificant, but it is two things I noticed.

I've only seen it once, but I noticed that immediately. I don't think Ben "knows," but I think he definitely suspects. Also worth noting, there's apparently about a 10-year age difference between Ben & Rey. So he's old enough to have at the very least been aware that he had a sister or cousin.

As for 2, I saw a great discussion elsewhere about that exact scene. Random chicks comforting each other after tragedy is just something they do. I wouldn't read too much into that scene based solely on that. However, I think Leia definitely knows who Rey is. I'm thinking a significant conversation occurred between she and Han off-screen that we aren't privy to, at least not yet. I think Han, and probably Leia too, have known who Rey is the whole time. But they appear to be following the formula for the OT, so the big reveal on the protagonist's bloodline won't happen until VIII.

[Dawg61]

Loved the movie. Didn't love the forced Finn Rey romance angle.

[Tbonewannabe]

Loved the movie. Didn't love the forced Finn Rey romance angle.

They definitely didn't have the chemistry on film. I liked both characters but Fin definitely seemed friend zoned.

[Political Hack]

Not really. Seeing as he helped track down all of the jedi, murdered them, and the dark side was the only thing going for like 30 years. That's not balance.

It was Luke vs. Vader with very few other Jedi/Sith alive. It was completely balanced. Prior to Vader it was 300 good guys and 1 bad guy. That's not balanced.

[Political Hack]

Rea is Luke's daughter. They basically spell it out for you.

1) Skywalker light saber calls to her. She dreams about the water and the island where Luke is n

2) C3PO says R2D2 hasn't come back on-line since Luke left. That he has very little power left. As soon as Rea hits the ground returning from Death Star II, R2D2 wakes up and shows them the map.

[Bass Chaser]

Are the plots folllowing the books?

[Blackout]

It was Luke vs. Vader with very few other Jedi/Sith alive. It was completely balanced. Prior to Vader it was 300 good guys and 1 bad guy. That's not balanced.

Is balance measured in numbers or power? The dark side was weighing the scales in terms of power/control in the galaxy.

[mstatefan91]

It was Luke vs. Vader with very few other Jedi/Sith alive. It was completely balanced. Prior to Vader it was 300 good guys and 1 bad guy. That's not balanced.

What Blackout said. Greater numbers does not equal more power. Ruling the galaxy equals more power.

[Political Hack]

Wow. That's a deep thought.

I think Yoda said in one of the episodes something like "the prophecy misread it may be" or some chit.

[Political Hack]

What Blackout said. Greater numbers does not equal more power. Ruling the galaxy equals more power.

The senate was in control. The dark side created two sides and a power struggle between themselves and the Senate. There was peace. "Balance" or the struggle between good and evil rose with the emergency of Palpatine as the emperor and Anakin becoming Vader.

[BeardoMSU]

Welp....Andy Serkis say's no to the Darth Plagueis idea.

http://geektyrant.com/news/andy-serkis-talks-supreme-leader-snoke-and-confirm-hes-not-darth-plagueis

[BulldogBear]

I'm hoping like hell that IF Rey is Luke's daughter, they'll canonize Mara Jade as her mother. She was easily the most popular EU character and the only EU character to ever be listed in the Top 10 for favorite Star Wars characters. I also liked the suggestion that Rey's mother is killed when The Seven attack Luke's Jedi Academy. I could definitely see them taking it that direction to make everyone hate Kylo/Ben that much more.

Btw, since you mentioned it, I loved all the nods to the EU. Luke & Mara had a son named Ben, so they essentially used his name for Han & Leia's son in TFA.

I only recently saw the movie and haven't read the whole thread yet, but I gotta stop and comment here. I agree completely about Mara Jade and I hope that she has not been deep-sixed with the rest of the now so called "star wars legends." One thing that made her so intriguing was that iirc she started working for the Empire (Was it Admiral Thrawn?). If she's already dead for the new trilogy (7-9) I wonder if her backstory will be as interesting. Idk what they're gonna do but I hate to see that character erased. I also wonder if they're gonna leave Boba Fett in the Sarlac pit or get him out like the former EU did. There was some pretty interesting interaction between him and Han Solo about 20 years after ROTJ. But it could be that as that has already happened, there is room for it still be in the canon.

[War Machine Dawg]

I only recently saw the movie and haven't read the whole thread yet, but I gotta stop and comment here. I agree completely about Mara Jade and I hope that she has not been deep-sixed with the rest of the now so called "star wars legends." One thing that made her so intriguing was that iirc she started working for the Empire (Was it Admiral Thrawn?). If she's already dead for the new trilogy (7-9) I wonder if her backstory will be as interesting. Idk what they're gonna do but I hate to see that character erased. I also wonder if they're gonna leave Boba Fett in the Sarlac pit or get him out like the former EU did. There was some pretty interesting interaction between him and Han Solo about 20 years after ROTJ. But it could be that as that has already happened, there is room for it still be in the canon.

No, she was the Emperor's Hand. They were a group of Force sensitive secret agents, each of whom thought they were the only Hand. They performed all sorts of tasks for Palpatine, including assassinations. According to the Legends Universe, she was at Jabba's Palace trying to assassinate Luke, but wasn't able to convince Jabba to take her on the sail barge. Her last command from Palpatine was to kill Luke, sent mentally through the Force as Palpatine died. She wound up fulfilling the command by killing a clone of Luke during the Thrawn Campaign.

[mstatefan91]

The senate was in control. The dark side created two sides and a power struggle between themselves and the Senate. There was peace. "Balance" or the struggle between good and evil rose with the emergency of Palpatine as the emperor and Anakin becoming Vader.

After reading some fan theory (some of which was completely asinine), I have come to a conclusion. The prophecy indicated that Anakin would bring balance to the force. He did it two times. The first time was when he killed Mace Windu before he could kill Palpatine (killing Palpatine would destroy the last sith and the last danger to the Jedi, no more balance). The second time is when he kills Palpatine to save Luke (Luke being the last Jedi, no more balance if Luke dies).

Makes sense to me besides the fact that killing the Emperor kinda screwed up the balance for a short time until Kylo Ren is seduced by Snoke.

[Jack Lambert]

I believe that flashback could be Luke leaving her there, and her fighting to go with him. Either way, the trailer with Luke saying that the force is strong with his family. His father had it, he has it, his sister has it, and his kids have it. Plus that would make Kylo and Rey 1st cousins about the same age.
As a bonus, I believe the storm trooper Fin also has the force with him. No other way he could hang with a jedi in a light saber fight if he didn't. Reflexes would be too slow.

I am wondering, Han said something about Luke going to find the first Jedi temple. Maybe there is a being like the Dark Supreme Leader, but for good. I am going to make a leap here, but what if the Supreme Leader guy killed the "Light Supreme being" and that disruption in the force is what caused Anakin to be born. Luke, Leia, Rey, and Kylo being as powerful as a team as the supreme leader guy? No idea, just wondering about he timing of the birth of Anakin versus all of this.

I predict in the next movie the Jedi will be reestablished and the Jedi school rocking at the temple. I don't think Kylo is Lukes Daughter. I think she is Han Solos and Leia Daughter and she was taken away at birth to keep her safe. Leia knows but it was kept from Han. Seems like Han and Kylo were way alike and thought alike in the movie. The same wave link. The reason was they were worried about her and her brother growing up together. They would be way too powerful. I don't know who the old guy was at the start of the movie but it was him that Kylo was taken from. He took the baby from Leia. He was there to watch over her like Oby One was there to watch over Luke. As far as Rey goes he could have the force. I don't think all the Jedi were destroyed. They scattered and went into hiding. They now have children.

Hell it's a movie and they can do what they want. Really they got a big foot flying a space ship. If they want they can bring Han back.

[mstatefan91]

I predict in the next movie the Jedi will be reestablished and the Jedi school rocking at the temple. I don't think Kylo is Lukes Daughter. I think she is Han Solos and Leia Daughter and she was taken away at birth to keep her safe. Leia knows but it was kept from Han. Seems like Han and Kylo were way alike and thought alike in the movie. The same wave link. The reason was they were worried about her and her brother growing up together. They would be way too powerful. I don't know who the old guy was at the start of the movie but it was him that Kylo was taken from. He took the baby from Leia. He was there to watch over her like Oby One was there to watch over Luke. As far as Rey goes he could have the force. I don't think all the Jedi were destroyed. They scattered and went into hiding. They now have children.

Hell it's a movie and they can do what they want. Really they got a big foot flying a space ship. If they want they can bring Han back.

You are all kinds of mixed up on the names lol

[Political Hack]

Bigfoots are excellent pilots. The only reason you don't find their skeletons is because porkepines love to eat them. I learned that on "finding Bigfoot."

Rea is Luke's daughter. Light saber called to her. R2D2 turned on when she arrived after C3PO explained that he hasn't powered up since Master Luke left. R2D2 wouldn't power up for Lea but would for her daughter? I don't buy it.

[War Machine Dawg]

Finally got around to watching TFA a second time earlier this week. It pains me to say it, but I'm now part of the "Rey Skywalker" camp. As Hack pointed out, the saber calls to her and R2D2 turns on to complete the map when she shows up. But the clincher to me is Luke's reaction when he sees Rey. If you look closely, you can see tears in his eyes and some shock on his face. That's an awfully strong emotional reaction for someone meeting either 1) a complete stranger or 2) his long lost niece. No, that's the reaction of a parent reuniting with a missing child. Finally, I leave you with this...

http://i.imgur.com/5nKVFVn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cNepU0m.jpg

[Political Hack]

That's solid. I actually wondered during the movie how the hell they recovered that and Vader's mask.

[War Machine Dawg]

That's solid. I actually wondered during the movie how the hell they recovered that and Vader's mask.

When in doubt, the most simple explanation is usually the correct one. Since Ben is Han & Leia's son, Vader's grandson, I'm assuming Luke divulged the location of Vader's funeral pyre on Endor to Leia. Leia then passes it on to Ben. Or Ben could have felt it calling to him through the Force. The burning of Vader's body & armor could've created a dark side Force nexus on Endor similar to the one we see at the cave on Dagobah. But I'd go with theory 1 where Luke told Leia then Leia tells Ben.

As for Luke's saber, I'm guessing they'll explain it's recovery in a manner similar to that of the now defunct Legends continuity. It falls to the bottom of Cloud City and is recovered from there by the Imperials. Luke's hand provides genetic material for cloning. And literally as I typed that it made me think...could Snoke be a cloned Luke that got disfigured somehow?

[Political Hack]

Freaking clone of Skywalkers would be a hell of a way to end the series.

[Tbonewannabe]

There is some books out and that are coming out that is supposed to fill in the blanks. Supposedly the book of the Force Awakens has some thoughts by Luke. I personally think after killing the padawan and other Jedi, Ben couldn't kill his cousin. He just decides to drop her off on Jakku. That is why she was dropped off with the junk dealer. It is pretty obvious the junk dealer wasn't very good to Rey. Being young she might not have realized Ben killed everyone so she would have wanted to leave with him. It would fit in with him being conflicted between the Light and Dark side. The book mentions that after killing Han he actually feels weaker in the force where he thought he would be more powerful.

If only Ben knew Rey survived it would make sense that no one came to get her. Everyone probably thought she was dead along with every other padawan.

[Bama_Dawg]

I like this article:
http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/this-new-star-wars-fan-theory-might-hold-the-key-to-reys-parentage

"Help us Obi Rey Kenobi, you're our only hope..."

[BulldogBear]

There is some books out and that are coming out that is supposed to fill in the blanks. Supposedly the book of the Force Awakens has some thoughts by Luke. I personally think after killing the padawan and other Jedi, Ben couldn't kill his cousin. He just decides to drop her off on Jakku. That is why she was dropped off with the junk dealer. It is pretty obvious the junk dealer wasn't very good to Rey. Being young she might not have realized Ben killed everyone so she would have wanted to leave with him. It would fit in with him being conflicted between the Light and Dark side. The book mentions that after killing Han he actually feels weaker in the force where he thought he would be more powerful.

If only Ben knew Rey survived it would make sense that no one came to get her. Everyone probably thought she was dead along with every other padawan.
In the script it says that Luke knows who Rey is.

[War Machine Dawg]

Disney Infinity Games may have spoiled it. I'll try to find it later, but the game has a line where you can hear Kylo Ren yell at Rey: "Fight me, cousin!"

[War Machine Dawg]

Here it is. Should be cued up. I'm now seeing perhaps he's saying "Face me....curses!" I'll leave it up to your ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXRZd5vkdo