Braves Trade Shelby Miller

[Really Clark?]

Get Ender Inciarte, Aaron Blair, and Dansby Swanson

[BrunswickDawg]

Get Ender Inciarte, Aaron Blair, and Dansby Swanson
Boom! Good to see my fellow MHS Blue Devil 2nd baseman - and grandson of my kindergarten teacher - back in the ATL! Rip'em up Dansby!

[Really Clark?]

I hate trading Miller but this was a really good deal I believe. Really like Dansby and surprised they threw him in as well. Looks like we are sending another minor leaguer back but all three guys we got are good to very good.

[msstate7]

We have just destroyed Arizona these last 2 deals...

[shoeless joe]

I'm still in a wait and see mode with these moves...but we have given up the best defensive shortstop in the game and a proven young horse with game 7 type stuff. Hopefully it all works out.

[msstate7]

Atlanta Sports Guy ?@Atlantasportguy
The Braves now have the 10th, 19th, 30th, 61st, 69th, and 88th best prospects in baseball per http://MLB.com

[DawgSaint]

I'm not a Braves fan, but really like this trade for Braves. The club show be on major upswing beginning in 2017.

[BoomBoom]

Get Ender Inciarte, Aaron Blair, and Dansby Swanson

Damn thats a trade rape.

Braves potential 2018 infield: Riley, Swanson, Albies, FF.
OF: Olivera, Mallex, Markakis/FA.

Thats a competitive lineup. If a few of the pitching prospects develop, thats another Braves dynasty.

[Todd4State]

John Hart knows what he is doing.

[smootness]

Damn thats a trade rape.

Braves potential 2018 infield: Riley, Swanson, Albies, FF.
OF: Olivera, Mallex, Markakis/FA.

Thats a competitive lineup. If a few of the pitching prospects develop, thats another Braves dynasty.

Inciarte will almost certainly be the CF going forward, even over Mallex.

[msstate7]

Bethancourt will be moved since we got flowers. What other moves are we looking at?

[BoomBoom]

Bethancourt will be moved since we got flowers. What other moves are we looking at?

Maybe, but he has options so they may just keep him in AAA all year.

We'll be looking to sign pitching bargains we can flip at the deadline, and a short term 3B or utility player.

[BoomBoom]

Bethancourt will be moved since we got flowers. What other moves are we looking at?

We'll see if he can produce offensively enough at the Ted. If he can't, he becomes the 4th OF.

Damn, all of a sudden the entire lineup is set, without even going to FA or trading from pitching prospect depth. Future looks bright.

[msstate7]

Maybe, but he has options so they may just keep him in AAA all year.

We'll be looking to sign pitching bargains we can flip at the deadline, and a short term 3B or utility player.

Almost certain bethancourt is out of options

[NeshobaChuck]

Was a great deal for us Bravos, BUT the moves the Cubs have made thus far they will be back next year they have made pickups were they needed to

[BoomBoom]

Almost certain bethancourt is out of options

According to Fox Sports, you're right. A shame, he could really build his value back in AAA. Well, Bobby used to carry 3 catchers....

[trob115]

Rumblings that the Cubs have already asked about inciarte. We should ask for Baez, underwood, and soler. We could send back inciarte , cb, and Teheran.

[msstate7]

Rumblings that the Cubs have already asked about inciarte. We should ask for Baez, underwood, and soler. We could send back inciarte , cb, and Teheran.

Don't wanna do that. I like inciarte. I like Teheran and think he'll have a great first half... Trade em at break if that's what we wanna do

[biscuit]

I'm super ready for 2017.....next year not so much

[msstate7]

I'm super ready for 2017.....next year not so much

I'll be in pearl every chance I get though... We should have some very nice minor league teams

[BoomBoom]

Don't wanna do that. I like inciarte. I think Teheran and think he'll have a great first half... Trade em at break if that's what we wanna do

With the stableness of the future lineup they now have, and with Teheran's friendly contract thru 2020, I dont think they trade him unless its for a major upgrade, and I dont see that happening right now. He has too much value to the Braves now as the vet ace anchoring the rotation in 2018-2020.

[biscuit]

I'll be in pearl every chance I get though... We should have some very nice minor league teams

No doubt. It'll be awesome watching these guys develop

[War Machine Dawg]

Bethancourt will be moved since we got flowers. What other moves are we looking at?

Everyone with value must go. FF, Markakis and Teheran are next. Basically, if you're an MLB player, we're getting rid of your ass right now for prospects.

[smootness]

Everyone with value must go. FF, Markakis and Teheran are next. Basically, if you're an MLB player, we're getting rid of your ass right now for prospects.

We will probably try to shop Markakis, but Freeman isn't going anywhere, and I'd be really surprised if we traded Teheran at this point.

[BoomBoom]

Everyone with value must go. FF, Markakis and Teheran are next. Basically, if you're an MLB player, we're getting rid of your ass right now for prospects.

lay off the bong. the goal is 2018, trading FF or Teheran doens't serve that.

[War Machine Dawg]

lay off the bong. the goal is 2018, trading FF or Teheran doens't serve that.

You clearly haven't paid attention to the offseason. We're moving anyone with value right now. Management has decided to tank the season for draft picks.Otherwise you don't move Simba or Miller. The AJC referenced the Cubs & Astros as the model we were tryng to copy several weeks ago. Losing seasons for high draft picks to gain talent.

And I find it funny that everyone is giving management a pass. They spent a year telling us this wasn't going to be a major rebuild and we'd be competitive by 2017. Now we're being told 2018 and it is clearly a complete rebuild. Either they lied to us for a whole year or they're making it up as they go. Excuse me if I'm not falling for the con job aGAIN. My question to them is how the hell do they expect to fill up the new stadium in just over a year with a bunch of prospects, almost all of whom are pitchers, and very few legit hitters? Guarantee you the fans aren't coming out for a team that might lose 100+ games, and I don't blame them one bit.

[BoomBoom]

You clearly haven't paid attention to the offseason. We're moving anyone with value right now. Management has decided to tank the season for draft picks.Otherwise you don't move Simba or Miller. The AJC referenced the Cubs & Astros as the model we were tryng to copy several weeks ago. Losing seasons for high draft picks to gain talent.

And I find it funny that everyone is giving management a pass. They spent a year telling us this wasn't going to be a major rebuild and we'd be competitive by 2017. Now we're being told 2018 and it is clearly a complete rebuild. Either they lied to us for a whole year or they're making it up as they go. Excuse me if I'm not falling for the con job aGAIN. My question to them is how the hell do they expect to fill up the new stadium in just over a year with a bunch of prospects, almost all of whom are pitchers, and very few legit hitters? Guarantee you the fans aren't coming out for a team that might lose 100+ games, and I don't blame them one bit.

Simba and Miller were only signed thru 2018, I believe. The Braves would have to pay them for 3 years for only 1 year that mattered. Not so with FF and Teheran, who are signed to friendlier contracts for much longer. They are tanking for 2016 though.

That Miller trade is the biggest trade rape since the Texiera deal. Be happy.

Im not sure where you got that this would not be a major rebuild. I thought it pretty clear that was the intention from the beginning. They did say 2017 to compete, but I think they realized at the end of 2015 that the prospects they'd gotten and the development of their own prospects forced it to 2018. They adjusted, thats a good thing.

[Todd4State]

And as far as the Shelby Miller deal- how bad in that looking for the Cardinals if they don't resign Heyward? The Braves get Tyrell Jenkins and then flip Miller for some really good prospects. And the Cardinals got potentially if not likely one year of Heyward. And if they do re-sign Heyward, it's going to be expensive.

I would have loved for the Cardinals to flip Miller to the D-Backs for what the Braves got back in return.

[BoomBoom]

And as far as the Shelby Miller deal- how bad in that looking for the Cardinals if they don't resign Heyward? The Braves get Tyrell Jenkins and then flip Miller for some really good prospects. And the Cardinals got potentially if not likely one year of Heyward. And if they do re-sign Heyward, it's going to be expensive.

I would have loved for the Cardinals to flip Miller to the D-Backs for what the Braves got back in return.

No kidding. 6 years of Swanson, 6 years of Blair, 6 years of Jenkins, and 5 years of Ender Incarte, and 1 year of Miller. All for one year of Heyward and that reliever I already cant remember.

[Todd4State]

No kidding. 6 years of Swanson, 6 years of Blair, 6 years of Jenkins, and 5 years of Ender Incarte, and 1 year of Miller. All for one year of Heyward and that reliever I already cant remember.

Jordan Walden- who you don't remember because he was hurt most of the season.

[smootness]

You clearly haven't paid attention to the offseason. We're moving anyone with value right now. Management has decided to tank the season for draft picks.Otherwise you don't move Simba or Miller. The AJC referenced the Cubs & Astros as the model we were tryng to copy several weeks ago. Losing seasons for high draft picks to gain talent.

And I find it funny that everyone is giving management a pass. They spent a year telling us this wasn't going to be a major rebuild and we'd be competitive by 2017. Now we're being told 2018 and it is clearly a complete rebuild. Either they lied to us for a whole year or they're making it up as they go. Excuse me if I'm not falling for the con job aGAIN. My question to them is how the hell do they expect to fill up the new stadium in just over a year with a bunch of prospects, almost all of whom are pitchers, and very few legit hitters? Guarantee you the fans aren't coming out for a team that might lose 100+ games, and I don't blame them one bit.

No, they are not tanking for draft picks.

Most fans actually understand the plan here. Being competitive by 2017 was always going to be too much. But guess what? That would have been too much to ask had we not sold off everyone as well. Except then, there wouldn't be any chance of competing by 2018 or 2019 or 2020, either.

[War Machine Dawg]

And as far as the Shelby Miller deal- how bad in that looking for the Cardinals if they don't resign Heyward? The Braves get Tyrell Jenkins and then flip Miller for some really good prospects. And the Cardinals got potentially if not likely one year of Heyward. And if they do re-sign Heyward, it's going to be expensive.

I would have loved for the Cardinals to flip Miller to the D-Backs for what the Braves got back in return.

I'm not talking about this trade specifically. It was absolutely a huge raping for the Braves. I'm just saying the overall "strategy" we've employed to date is questionable. This team may lose 100+ games each of the next two seasons as configured. If we don't start flipping some pitchers for hitters soon, I'm going to lose my mind. I think this also clearly signals two more years of Fredi in the duguout, which is unacceptable. He has to go.

[Really Clark?]

Padres and Braves are discussing a trade sending Christian Bethencourt out west

[RocketCityDawg]

Padres and Braves are discussing a trade sending Christian Bethencourt out west

Please, let this happen. Beth is terrible.

[msstate7]

Please, let this happen. Beth is terrible.

He's gone whether it's Padres or someone else.

[Really Clark?]

He's gone whether it's Padres or someone else.

Yep. The signing of Flowers made it obvious. I actually hope we can package him and get something in return. Box of balls, new hitting tee, something useful.

[smootness]

I'm not talking about this trade specifically. It was absolutely a huge raping for the Braves. I'm just saying the overall "strategy" we've employed to date is questionable. This team may lose 100+ games each of the next two seasons as configured. If we don't start flipping some pitchers for hitters soon, I'm going to lose my mind. I think this also clearly signals two more years of Fredi in the duguout, which is unacceptable. He has to go.

This is bizarre. 'Yes, we just pulled off a phenomenal deal where we flipped pitching for hitting (and even still more pitching), but if we don't start flipping pitching for hitting soon...' That trade was a clear signal that we do intend to add hitting and that it is indeed very possible to flip pitching for quality hitting talent.

The team will not be good in 2016, though I doubt we lose 100. Either way, though, sure, we'll lose a lot. The team in 2017 has a chance to be quite a bit better...it still likely won't be a contending team, but it could absolutely tread water and finish .500ish. You'll have a bunch of these pitchers ready to go, Swanson will likely be ready, and Albies won't be far behind. Ruiz could also bounce back and be a piece.

I would say as of now, the goal is to be around .500 in 2017 with some new faces the fan base can get excited about, then to really start making a push for the playoffs in 2018. We absolutely are not tanking in order to add draft picks. We're selling off short-term pieces for a higher quantity of long-term pieces so that we can eventually compete. If a side effect of that is that we also get a couple years of high draft picks, so be it.

I would love to hear what your strategy would have been to remain competitive in 2015-2017 while also setting us up to be competitive beyond that as well.

[Political Hack]

You clearly haven't paid attention to the offseason. We're moving anyone with value right now. Management has decided to tank the season for draft picks.Otherwise you don't move Simba or Miller. The AJC referenced the Cubs & Astros as the model we were tryng to copy several weeks ago. Losing seasons for high draft picks to gain talent.

And I find it funny that everyone is giving management a pass. They spent a year telling us this wasn't going to be a major rebuild and we'd be competitive by 2017. Now we're being told 2018 and it is clearly a complete rebuild. Either they lied to us for a whole year or they're making it up as they go. Excuse me if I'm not falling for the con job aGAIN. My question to them is how the hell do they expect to fill up the new stadium in just over a year with a bunch of prospects, almost all of whom are pitchers, and very few legit hitters? Guarantee you the fans aren't coming out for a team that might lose 100+ games, and I don't blame them one bit.

Have to agree somewhat. With the opening of the new stadium and reduce seats, they can afford to miss some ticket sales the next couple of years. They're trying to build a championship and that takes time, but the mortgaging of 2-3 years is hard to stomach.

[Really Clark?]

Bethancourt to Padres for RHP Casey Kelly, once a good prospect but injuries have really hurt him the last few years and Ricardo Rodriguez, a 17 year catcher with nice projectable defensive skills and hit pretty good in rookie league. He was the #21 international prospect signed in 2014 at 16.

[BoomBoom]

Bethancourt to Padres for RHP Casey Kelly, once a good prospect but injuries have really hurt him the last few years and Ricardo Rodriguez, a 17 year catcher with nice projectable defensive skills and hit pretty good in rookie league. He was the #21 international prospect signed in 2014 at 16.

dang, they stood firm on Hunter Renfroe.

[smootness]

dang, they stood firm on Hunter Renfroe.

We were never getting Renfroe for Bethancourt.

[Really Clark?]

Ha. Yeah couldn't quite get them to budge on Renfroe. Honestly surprised we got two players. The catcher will be some time before we know if we really got something but defensively they really think he can stick at the MLB level behind the plate and supposedly has above average arm already. If he can hit a lick we may have a little something.

[BoomBoom]

We were never getting Renfroe for Bethancourt.

i forgot the sarcasterisks.

[War Machine Dawg]

Ha. Yeah couldn't quite get them to budge on Renfroe. Honestly surprised we got two players. The catcher will be some time before we know if we really got something but defensively they really think he can stick at the MLB level behind the plate and supposedly has above average arm already. If he can hit a lick we may have a little something.

So basically he's Bethancourt 2.0. That's pretty much exactly what we heard about Bethancourt for years before he was called up - "Great D, but can he hit?"

[msstate7]

So basically he's Bethancourt 2.0. That's pretty much exactly what we heard about Bethancourt for years before he was called up - "Great D, but can he hit?"

I think having a great arm got mistaken for being a great defensive catcher. I was very disappointed with bethancourt defensively

[Really Clark?]

So basically he's Bethancourt 2.0. That's pretty much exactly what we heard about Bethancourt for years before he was called up - "Great D, but can he hit?"

No. Actually with Bethencourt was incredible arm with the capability of having good to great defense because of his athleticism. Lack of focus was known but wrote off as a young player. He hasn't ever been able to overcome that. Pitch framing and working the staff was thought he would never be more than average unless he worked more at it. Don't know yet about this young player on that part. His hitting was thought to have problems with contact but did have some projectable raw power that may or may not ever develop. This guy probably won't have much power. Smaller sized catcher that is 5'10" and 180. Of course at 17 he might grow some more. I think it was time to go ahead and part ways. A change might be really good for him but it wasn't going to work out in ATL.

[smootness]

So basically he's Bethancourt 2.0. That's pretty much exactly what we heard about Bethancourt for years before he was called up - "Great D, but can he hit?"

So Bethancourt didn't pan out, and now we get another chance with a similar high-upside young C? Sounds good to me. Eventually one will hit.

[Really Clark?]

It was 2 levels of rookie ball but the 17 year hit .266 with a .712 OPS. So there is promise just have to some years to see how he trends going up the levels.

[War Machine Dawg]

It was 2 levels of rookie ball but the 17 year hit .266 with a .712 OPS. So there is promise just have to some years to see how he trends going up the levels.

Definitely not the worst trade we've made. Decent young catching prospect and a pitcher who's the epitome of no risk, huge upside.