Why we can't enjoy our success.

[bulldogcountry1]

I'm not and old fart by any means, but I've seen a lot of ups and downs between ours and the UM programs since the 90's. In the last 20 years, both teams have won as many as 10 and have lost as many as 10. There's been some really bad multi-season slumps for both, as well as some good times. Bother teams are experiencing the highest level of sustained success as they have had in recent memory.

Though all of this, though, I have noticed one thing that never seems to go away, not matter the records. Only fan base can be happy at a time. When one side is riding high, the other is panicking because they fear they are getting left behind. It's as if, no matter who we are playing, we are always playing against each other, and each side can never truly enjoy their own success when the other is just a little bit better at the time. Momentum can change sides weekly or even daily, depending on factors ranging from big wins to a commitment to arrest to an individual award. It never stops, and I don't care what any UM fan says. They are just as obsessed as we are. They are just better at pretending like we don't matter to them.

The last two seasons are a perfect example of this. While we were #1 for a month last season, UM fans couldn't even enjoy their own success. Every one of then I would know would fake a smile and say how cool it is for the state. Deep down, you could tell it was eating them up inside. This year, the tables have turned, and none of us seem to even care about the bowl game. We are too busy freaking out about Mullen and recruiting. Why? Because 8-4 and a nice bowl isn't acceptable? No. It's simply because UM is better than us right now and have steeper trajectory going forward. That's all that seems to matter. We can't look at our own teams and decide how we feel without looking at the other first.

[BoomBoom]

I'm not and old fart by any means, but I've seen a lot of ups and downs between ours and the UM programs since the 90's. In the last 20 years, both teams have won as many as 10 and have lost as many as 10. There's been some really bad multi-season slumps for both, as well as some good times. Bother teams are experiencing the highest level of sustained success as they have had in recent memory.

Though all of this, though, I have noticed one thing that never seems to go away, not matter the records. Only fan base can be happy at a time. When one side is riding high, the other is panicking because they fear they are getting left behind. It's as if, no matter who we are playing, we are always playing against each other, and each side can never truly enjoy their own success when the other is just a little bit better at the time. Momentum can change sides weekly or even daily, depending on factors ranging from big wins to a commitment to arrest to an individual award. It never stops, and I don't care what any UM fan says. They are just as obsessed as we are. They are just better at pretending like we don't matter to them.

The last two seasons are a perfect example of this. While we were #1 for a month last season, UM fans couldn't even enjoy their own success. Every one of then I would know would fake a smile and say how cool it is for the state. Deep down, you could tell it was eating them up inside. This year, the tables have turned, and none of us seem to even care about the bowl game. We are too busy freaking out about Mullen and recruiting. Why? Because 8-4 and a nice bowl isn't acceptable? No. It's simply because UM is better than us right now and have steeper trajectory going forward. That's all that seems to matter. We can't look at our own teams and decide how we feel without looking at the other first.

No, because we are on a down slope, and the old farts are intent on keeping us on it until the bottom, because of irrelevant history.

[AROB44]

No, because we are on a down slope, and the old farts are intent on keeping us on it until the bottom, because of irrelevant history.

This is total BS!!

[Jack Lambert]

No, because we are on a down slope, and the old farts are intent on keeping us on it until the bottom, because of irrelevant history.

I'll take a eight win season as a down year any time.

[ShotgunDawg]

This is total BS!!

Agree

Recruiting is actually improving.

We can't enjoy our success because you are either getting better or getting worse in this league. There is no joy until we win the SEC title & then that will only last for a few weeks before we start worrying about other things.

South Carolina had three straight 11 win season between 2011 & 2013 & now they are terrible. The moment you start thinking your good in this league and you slack off a little bitty bit, your done.

[Liverpooldawg]

No, because we are on a down slope, and the old farts are intent on keeping us on it until the bottom, because of irrelevant history.

Here we go again. We never learn from our history therefore we are doomed to repeat it over and over. For clarity booms view is the historical one.

[Leroy Jenkins]

The problem is not the record or perceived lack of success.... The problem is not playing to our potential. If the best we could do is 8-4 that's one thing, having a good team and settling for 8-4 is another, its year 7. The "history" excuse does not play anymore, the guys on this team were 11 or 12 years old when Dan took over; they don't know the old MSU.

Some people will be happy with finishing next to last in the division because, hey, we are not last.

[Maroon_and_white]

Enjoying success is directly correlated to expectations. MSU fans overall are pretty reasonable. This year, we went 8-4 with the best QB we've ever had with 3 HOME losses to LSU, Bama, and Ole Miss. My expectations were 9-3 this year with a big home win vs 1 of those 3 teams. That did not happen. This results in disappointment and anger in our fanbase. Next year, expectations are lower. Most agree 7-5 is expectation next year.

To add: I will never "expect" a 10 win season from MSU, however, I do expect us to be competitive for and perhaps achieve a 10 win season every 3-4 years. This is correlated to a mixture of recruiting and experience. As mentioned above, I do expect us to win the majority of our SEC home games. At the very least, split SEC home games 2-2. I'm not happy with paying a lot of money to watch our team play at home and lose (and lose embarrassingly) especially to our rival who we rarely have lost to at home over the last 20 years

[ShotgunDawg]

The problem is not the record or perceived lack of success.... The problem is not playing to our potential. If the best we could do is 8-4 that's one thing, having a good team and settling for 8-4 is another, its year 7. The "history" excuse does not play anymore, the guys on this team were 11 or 12 years old when Dan took over; they don't know the old MSU.

Some people will be happy with finishing next to last in the division because, hey, we are not last.

We were picked by Vegas to win 7 games & picked by the SEC media to finish last in the division.

So you don't think we are playing to our potential?

[SDDawg]

The problem is not the record or perceived lack of success.... The problem is not playing to our potential. If the best we could do is 8-4 that's one thing, having a good team and settling for 8-4 is another, its year 7. The "history" excuse does not play anymore, the guys on this team were 11 or 12 years old when Dan took over; they don't know the old MSU.

Some people will be happy with finishing next to last in the division because, hey, we are not last.

This was a 9-3 team and in my mind, we came up short. Problem is if we had beaten LSU and then lost to UMiss, people would still be singing the same tune. This is a tough business and fans have high expectations, which is why Dan makes the money he makes. Just part of the deal... and the fact that were terrible for so long really doesn't change it. Life in the SEC West...

[ShotgunDawg]

Enjoying success is directly correlated to expectations. MSU fans overall are pretty reasonable. This year, we went 8-4 with the best QB we've ever had with 3 HOME losses to LSU, Bama, and Ole Miss. My expectations were 9-3 this year with a big home win vs 1 of those 3 teams. That did not happen. This results in disappointment and anger in our fanbase. Next year, expectations are lower. Most agree 7-5 is expectation next year.

I think much of the frustration this year was tied to the fact that we played like crap at home against good teams. If we would've lost to Alabama & Ole Miss on the road & beaten Arkansas at home, things may be slightly better.

Everyone's gameday experience this season for big home games was crap. It's better to lose in road games on TV.

[SDDawg]

Enjoying success is directly correlated to expectations. MSU fans overall are pretty reasonable. This year, we went 8-4 with the best QB we've ever had with 3 HOME losses to LSU, Bama, and Ole Miss. My expectations were 9-3 this year with a big home win vs 1 of those 3 teams. That did not happen. This results in disappointment and anger in our fanbase. Next year, expectations are lower. Most agree 7-5 is expectation next year.

Only disagreement is that if we had beaten LSU and then lost to Ole Miss, this reaction would be mostly the same. Pretty much everyone expected to beat them, and if they didn't expect it they hoped beyond belief it would happen anyway. Just how it is...

[Maroon_and_white]

Only disagreement is that if we had beaten LSU and then lost to Ole Miss, this reaction would be mostly the same. Pretty much everyone expected to beat them, and if they didn't expect it they hoped beyond belief it would happen anyway. Just how it is...

The reaction to losing at Ole Miss @ home will always be bad, but if we had beaten LSU then perspective would have been more positive of the season overall. We would have had several weeks after LSU of great excitement and probably been a top 10 team again. The losses to Bama and Ole Miss would have stung since it was a repeat of last year, but we would have had at least had 1 big home win for the fans to enjoy. The fact of the matter was Bama and Ole Miss top to bottom were just more talented than us. I can live with that considering this was Ole Miss golden year and they still went 9-3.

[Red Sox Dawg]

No, because we are on a down slope, and the old farts are intent on keeping us on it until the bottom, because of irrelevant history.

Maybe the old farts should let the young sharts take over. You can take up my giving to MSU and I will let it go. Hope you can get us off the bottom.

[Leroy Jenkins]

We were picked by Vegas to win 7 games & picked by the SEC media to finish last in the division.

So you don't think we are playing to our potential?

Dude, who cares where the media picked us? If we were going to go off that why even play the games? Did the media pick us to be #1 last year? Cant have it both ways. The team the media picked to win the division finished LAST.
I hope the fans who follow the team closely have a better barometer for the teams actual potential than the media.

[ShotgunDawg]

Delete

[ShotgunDawg]

Dude, who cares where the media picked us? If we were going to go off that why even play the games? Did the media pick us to be #1 last year? Cant have it both ways. The team the media picked to win the division finished LAST.

I'm just giving you a consensus view.

If you are some elite talent evaluator & seriously believe that we are underachieving, then more power to you & I'd love to learn what you know about our players that I don't.

Recruiting will need to continue to improve for me to reasonably believe we should be winning more game.

[Blackout]

We were picked by Vegas to win 7 games & picked by the SEC media to finish last in the division.

So you don't think we are playing to our potential?

The media argument is something I expect from Liverpool or Homedawg

[ShotgunDawg]

The media argument is something I expect from Liverpool or Homedawg

I think we played at least to expectations this year. Particularly with that abortion that we called an offensive line & the injuries we sustained in our secondary.

Don't confuse that with fact that I'm also upset & embarrassed that Mullen shopped himself publicly & that our recruiting & development, especially on the offensive line, MUST improve.

Us meeting expectations this year with the players we have & us knowing what needs to happen for the program to improve, are two separate issues.

[Political Hack]

Nm

[Leroy Jenkins]

I'm just giving you a consensus view.

If you are some elite talent evaluator & seriously believe that we are underachieving, then more power to you & I'd love to learn what you know about our players that I don't.

Recruiting will need to continue to improve for me to reasonably believe we should be winning more game.

This is the only thing I know for a fact about talent...

The players on the roster for the 2nd half vs LSU were the same ones from the 1st half.
The players on the roster for the 2nd half vs NMS were the same ones from the the 1st half.
How much different would the season be if we played 2 more complete halves? That is the frustration some people have, they saw a huge missed opportunity at a place where that opportunity does not come along very often. Dan punted the best opportunity MSU has had in decades and those who are passionate about it are understandably upset with his laissez-faire attitude.

[Johnson85]

The problem is not the record or perceived lack of success.... The problem is not playing to our potential. If the best we could do is 8-4 that's one thing, having a good team and settling for 8-4 is another, its year 7. The "history" excuse does not play anymore, the guys on this team were 11 or 12 years old when Dan took over; they don't know the old MSU.

Some people will be happy with finishing next to last in the division because, hey, we are not last.

There is no "history" excuse. It's a present time excuse. MSU is not presently at a position where we can fire a coach who averaged 9 regular season wins for the past two years and (even assuming he loses the upcoming bowl game) 8.33 wins a year for the past three year and 8.25 wins a season for the past four years.

Yes, the performance this year raised some serious concerns, not so much because of the final record (which was probably only one off of where it should have been), but because of having several no shows by the players and staff in games this year. But other than Saban, what coach hasn't had a year where there were serious concerns? Chip Kelly left after just four good years so I guess that's one. Urban Meyer won 7 regular season games in 2010 at UF. He did have to take time off but he seems to be doing an ok job at Ohio State now. Pete Carroll really didn't have a down year until his last year where he won 8 regular season games. Another person that left but it seems like he does an ok job at Seattle, granted that's the NFL and not college.

Most coaches are going to have ups and downs.

While I was trying to find some good examples, I did come across Mike Bellotti's record. He inherited a team that went 9-4 the year before and then he won 9 games in his first season, and then six games and then seven games. At that point I assume some Oregon fans were calling for him to be fired because the program was clearly on the wrong path.

Then Bellotti won 8, 9, 10, and 11 games over the next four years, and I assume those same Oregon fans were still talking about how they ruined their program by accepting mediocrity and not firing him when he was clearly on a downhill slide?

Then he won 7, 8, and then 5 games, at which point I assume it was really obvious they were on a downward slope and those people were madder than ever.

Then he won 10, 7, 9, and 10 games to finish his career, at which point I assume those fans were pissed at the 11 years they wasted with him after his first three.

Of course in 2009 through 2012, Chip Kelly was the coach, and those fans had to live with the indignity of a Rose Bowl loss, then a loss in the National Championship game, then a Rose bowl win and a Fiesta win, whereas if they hadn't accepted mediocrity with Mike Bellotti, they would have surely been able to cash in on four straight national championships by that point rather than being stuck with four BCS bowls.

[HancockCountyDog]

I thoroughly enjoyed last year.

LSU win and Auburn win were two of the best wins in my lifetime.

This year, I have not enjoyed much of it. Beating Arkansas on a block FG was nice, but that's pretty much it.

Losing at home to LSU, Alabama and Ole Miss just sucks.

[BoomBoom]

Here we go again. We never learn from our history therefore we are doomed to repeat it over and over. For clarity booms view is the historical one.

what history do you speak of? the history i am familiar with is holding on to Jackie too long, holding on to Stans too long, and giving Croom an extension after his fourth year.

[BoomBoom]

I'll take a eight win season as a down year any time.

you missed the point. i said downward slope, not down year. All Mullen has to bring to the table was his system, and that has been figured out. he had a nice stretch last year before the Dak offense was figured out, but you take out those 2-3 games and his value becomes clear. He brings nothing to the table for recruiting, game management, game planning, adjustments, clock management, personnel management, motivation..., geez need i go on?

Again, you will see a ton of zone read next year, and it will be pathetic. you old farts will blame the players, but it's not the players, it's that the zone read is old news that every decent team can now defend, and Mullen doesn't know how to adjust. But you clowns will defend him like you defended Croom, until the bitter end.

[Liverpooldawg]

MSU has lost so much over the years that our fans only really know how to react to losing. We don't know how to handle the ups and downs of a successful program. When there is a downturn, small or large, we automatically assume the wheels have come off. It's all we know. We have to get out of that mindset if we are ever gonna make the next step.

[Todd4State]

what history do you speak of? the history i am familiar with is holding on to Jackie too long, holding on to Stans too long, and giving Croom an extension after his fourth year.

This is the history I know...which is ironic since the MSU history people keep harping on us firing a coach "too soon"- which has literally not happened for us since 1950. If anything MSU history shows that we wait too long to cut the cord- and then the next coach is "bad" in part because of the massive rebuilding project left by the coach that hung around too long. Only to build up the program enough for the next "good" coach to actually do something with it.

[Todd4State]

MSU has lost so much over the years that our fans only really know how to react to losing. We don't know how to handle the ups and downs of a successful program. When there is a downturn, small or large, we automatically assume the wheels have come off. It's all we know. We have to get out of that mindset if we are ever gonna make the next step.

You shouldn't evaluate any program that generally. What are the circumstances? In 2000 we went 8-4 lost the Egg Bowl and no one I can recall wanted Jackie fired. Probably in part because we also beat Florida, Auburn, and Alabama. This year we went 8-4 but the only quality SEC team we beat was Arkansas- a 7-5 Arkansas mind you. With some very concerning trends that even the most casual football fan can identify along the way.

[Liverpooldawg]

Yet here a very vocal want Dan gone after an 8-4 season. Our history says that is totally insane. Pretty much every team's history, with 5-6 exceptions, says that is insane. I hope we make it to that level someday and I think we can. We ain't there yet.

[Liverpooldawg]

Yet here a very vocal want Dan gone after an 8-4 season. Our history says that is totally insane. Pretty much every team's history, with 5-6 exceptions, says that is insane. I hope we make it to that level someday and I think we can. We ain't there yet.

I missed the part where you basically said Jackie should have been fired after a 8 win season. That's insane too. You can't judge by hindsight. Had we done that at the time people would have laughs us out of the NCAA. We would not have hired Dan Mullen either.

[BoomBoom]

I missed the part where you basically said Jackie should have been fired after a 8 win season. That's insane too. You can't judge by hindsight. Had we done that at the time people would have laughs us out of the NCAA. We would not have hired Dan Mullen either.

uh, he had 2 more 3 win seasons after that. and still wasn't fired, which ran the program further into the ground. THAT is the history of MSU.

[BoomBoom]

Yet here a very vocal want Dan gone after an 8-4 season. Our history says that is totally insane. Pretty much every team's history, with 5-6 exceptions, says that is insane. I hope we make it to that level someday and I think we can. We ain't there yet.

And a more reasonable sector of the fanbase says, just don't give him an extension right now. Then evaluate again next year. While another unreasonable sector of the fanbase contends that Mullen gets the right to run the program into the ground because of 1 good 3 game streak.

[Liverpooldawg]

And a more reasonable sector of the fanbase says, just don't give him an extension right now. Then evaluate again next year. While another unreasonable sector of the fanbase contends that Mullen gets the right to run the program into the ground because of 1 good 3 game streak.

You extend his contract for an 8 win season. You people have lost it. Totally lost it. One good three game streak? Listen to yourself dude. SIX STRAIGHT WINNING SEASONS at MSU is a heck of a lot more than one three game streak. What the REAL problem is here is that we DID have a really good three game streak and all of a sudden we have the expectations of an Alabama. Get a grip people.

[Coach34]

You extend his contract for an 8 win season. You people have lost it. Totally lost it. One good three game streak? Listen to yourself dude. SIX STRAIGHT WINNING SEASONS at MSU is a heck of a lot more than one three game streak. What the REAL problem is here is that we DID have a really good three game streak and all of a sudden we have the expectations of an Alabama. Get a grip people.

No...just no

What people are pissed about is that Mullen is 2-16 vs Bama, LSU, and A&M. That we have lost 3 of 4 to OM. That we have only won 13 SEC West games in 7 years. Thats what bothers people.

We are feasting on OOC and the SEC East

[nicks_hammer]

Coach said it right with 13 SEC West wins in 7 years. Even UNM has managed to beat Buma and LSWho more than we have. It is a contest to see who finishes ahead of whom and right now we are getting our asses handed to us by all but ARK and AUB here lately. That won't last for long. Are we gonna pony up or crawfish back?

[lastmajordog]

Maybe the old farts should let the young sharts take over. You can take up my giving to MSU and I will let it go. Hope you can get us off the bottom.

The total lack of respect for older alum on this site floors me. As bad as I hate to admit it, UNM seems to appreciate and respect older alums instead of scapegoating them, on their boards anyway. Where did this lack of respect originate?

[Coach34]

The total lack of respect for older alum on this site floors me. As bad as I hate to admit it, UNM seems to appreciate and respect older alums instead of scapegoating them, on their boards anyway. Where did this lack of respect originate?

Older Ole Missus alums seem to think they should be able to compete for the SEC title- their younger alums feed off that

Older State alums tell us to be happy we won 8 games and to stfu- it will only get worse.


Big difference

[lastmajordog]

Older Ole Missus alums seem to think they should be able to compete for the SEC title- their younger alums feed off that

Older State alums tell us to be happy we won 8 games and to stfu- it will only get worse.


Big difference

This one never has......

[Maroon_and_white]

This one never has......

Congratulations you are in the minority

[smootness]

No, because we are on a down slope, and the old farts are intent on keeping us on it until the bottom, because of irrelevant history.

El oh freaking el.

[Todd4State]

And a more reasonable sector of the fanbase says, just don't give him an extension right now. Then evaluate again next year. While another unreasonable sector of the fanbase contends that Mullen gets the right to run the program into the ground because of 1 good 3 game streak.

This and what Coach said about Dan not winning enough games in the SEC West. Dan needs to know that the bar has been raised- and what is expected of him. And on top of that Hevesy MUST be fired as well.

[Todd4State]

Older Ole Missus alums seem to think they should be able to compete for the SEC title- their younger alums feed off that

Older State alums tell us to be happy we won 8 games and to stfu- it will only get worse.


Big difference

NAILED IT. And all the while preaching the gospel about letting coaches go too soon- despite the fact that there is not one coach that MSU has ever fired since 1950 that would fall into that category.

[FISHDAWG]

you missed the point. i said downward slope, not down year. All Mullen has to bring to the table was his system, and that has been figured out. he had a nice stretch last year before the Dak offense was figured out, but you take out those 2-3 games and his value becomes clear. He brings nothing to the table for recruiting, game management, game planning, adjustments, clock management, personnel management, motivation..., geez need i go on?

Again, you will see a ton of zone read next year, and it will be pathetic. you old farts will blame the players, but it's not the players, it's that the zone read is old news that every decent team can now defend, and Mullen doesn't know how to adjust. But you clowns will defend him like you defended Croom, until the bitter end.

when you are #1 for 5 weeks the only way is downward