Practice from this afternoon

[Coach 57]

Let me preface what I say with this: I didn't watch the skill guys. So don't ask.

I am going to break it down by who it was I saw. I made some mental notes per most guys. I will then expound on those notes.


#96 Jones- HUGE & explosive!
Hunter Renfroe is what baseball gurus (not one of them) call a "5 tool player". Chris is that on the DL. Although I don't see him playing much this year (DE depth) he COULD however be bumped inside on certain scenarios. He is every bit 300lbs and anybody that tells you otherwise is misinformed. He is huge. I see this kid being one of the greatest DL we have had in a long time IF he continues to develop, stay out of trouble & stays healthy. An absolute beast!

49 Dale- Good burst but needs more upper body strength to get OTs hands off of him. #71 owned him 4 out of 5 snaps at RT.

#94- lacks explosivenes but uses his hands well. And knows HOW to use his spin as a setup move.

97- not quite as athletic as most others but man is he strong!

88 James- sometimes lacks coachability. Head down, fists clinched. Bad body language. Dan spends ALOT of 1 on 1 with him. Strongest kid of THIS group! Made two amazing plays against the best OG of this group.

76 Thomas- Got beat by every single guys that lined up in front of the LT. Feet are terrible, slow to react to the weaker DEs. Chris Jones obliterated him 3 times in a row.

60- don't know who this kid is...but he us the only one who can block James 1 on 1 from this group. I REALLY like this kid, just took Chris Jones for a ride on that play & then after gave him a little "nasty" after the play. Like his feet. His hands and LOVE his nasty attitude!

#71- looked decent. Has a good kickstep on the RT side. Heavesy likes this kid, I do too.

55 Holley- very disappointed with this kid. Never sign a JUCO & sit him. He is a bust. Getting whipped by a true freshman as a Sr is REALLY bad...even if it is Chris Jones.

So this is what I saw today. I like Turner (always have) and think he has made some noise already with the change of approach with his style. Mullen was over there talking to James alot. Once #60 really got after Nick and he just kind of shut down. Turner tried to talk to him but he just walked away. Mullen immediately stepped in & kind of talked him (James) down. I don't know if it was Wilson or his H.S coach but I know this look he has in his eye. He has been either babied his whole career or beat down. Either way, not good for us. But not impossible to overcome either.

[codeDawg]

I'll help out with names. Of course jersey numbers could be different, but this is off the roster:

96 - Chris Jones - DE - TrFr
49 - Torrey Dale - DE - RsFr
94 - Nelson Adams - DL - RsFr
97 - (Did we sneak Josh Boyd back in?, not on the current roster)
88 - Nick James - DL - So
76 - Jake Thomas - OL - TrFr
60 - Jammal Clayborn - OL - TrFr
71 - Cole Carter - OL - RsFr
55 - Dylan Holley - OL - Sr

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Not shocking on thomas. He will be depth for 4 years.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Let's see if we can put some names with these numbers ....

55 - Dylan Holley
60 - Jamaal Clayborn
71 - Cole Carter
76 - Jake Thomas

49 - Torrey Dale
88 - Nick James
94 - Nelson Adams
96 - Chris Jones
97 - ??? Not on official roster

[AlSwearengen]

sounds like James might have some things that go way back. I'm talking about childhood kind of way back. One minute, you hear about him dominating and having the time of his life and then he is miserable and hates life. Hope he can get it together and things work out for him and us.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Not shocking on thomas. He will be depth for 4 years.

I'm actually surprised by that. I thought I remembered reading that he was the only guy who could block Chris Jones at one of the camps. Shocking for a four-star OL. I'm hoping he just had a bad day.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

He isnt a 4 star. High 2 or low 3 talent. Hope I eat my words but he had never looked good to me. Flowers is the bell cow.

[Coach 57]

#97 was a white kid. Simpson was his name I think.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Trent Simpson.

[AlSwearengen]

I'm actually surprised by that. I thought I remembered reading that he was the only guy who could block Chris Jones at one of the camps. Shocking for a four-star OL. I'm hoping he just had a bad day.


Thomas, I think was coming off of a bad ankle at the camp. The kid that was handling Jones better than anyone else signed somewhere in florida, i think. He wanted an offer from us but didn't get it. Thomas made a name for himself by dominating the five star de that signed with olemiss two years ago, his name is escaping me right now. Ware maybe.

[gravedigger]

Hevesy must see a lot in this kid #71 because he worked with him a great deal in practice # 1 on Thursday. Hopefully the kid matures quickly.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Channing Ward. I knew I remembered him dominating some highly touted high school DE. What happened to Jake between then and now?

[msstate7]

Not shocking on thomas. He will be depth for 4 years.

Pretty quick evaluation considering Thomas hasn't even started his first fall semester

[Pollodawg]

Did Jones practice at both practices? I am confused.

[bocfarm]

Thomas was a army all American nominee and dandy dozen guy.... Need those guys to pan out.

Personally I wish Mullen would give Hev the boot...not impressed recruiting or development. Wishful thinking, I know

[ShotgunDawg]

Fellas....

Coach 57 obviously knows what he is talking about, but evaluations are still opinions and we are two days into practice. Lets not assume that Jake Thomas is a bust or that Chris Jones is Mean Joe Green after 3 practices in shorts. We all realize that O-lineman take longer to develop than any other position. I'm not disagreeing with what Coach 57 said, just realize that there are a lot of factors in play that Coach 57 may not have known about, maybe he was hurt, maybe he was thinking to much, maybe he was under coached in high school, etc...

During the NFL and MLB drafts, people would be blown away at how much draft boards differ from team to team. People always assume that all 32 NFL or all 30 MLB teams have the same draft board as Todd McShay, however they are very very different.

Case in point, in 2008 the San Francisco Giants drafted 8 big leaguers in their draft. The norm for a team is 3. The night before the draft, GM Brian Sabean walked into the draft room, looked at the board, and then looked at his scouting director and said, "This board is really 17ed up, or we are going to have an unbelievable draft."

The point is that talent evaluation is a very very very subjective business, and we as football fans lose sight of that due to the star system, expert opinions, etc., however, you never know.

Cardinals reliever Kevin Seigrist was drafted in the 41st round in 2008. He never hit 90mph in the year that the Cardinals were scouting him. However, he now pitches at 95-97 mph in the big leagues.

Not saying the Coach 57 is wrong, however, it is way to early to call guys busts, and also remember, that no matter how good a talent evaluator a person is, it is still only 1 mans opinion.

[archdog]

Fellas....

Coach 57 obviously knows what he is talking about, but evaluations are still opinions and we are two days into practice. Lets not assume that Jake Thomas is a bust or that Chris Jones is Mean Joe Green after 3 practices in shorts. We all realize that O-lineman take longer to develop than any other position. I'm not disagreeing with what Coach 57 said, just realize that there are a lot of factors in play that Coach 57 may not have known about, maybe he was hurt, maybe he was thinking to much, maybe he was under coached in high school, etc...

During the NFL and MLB drafts, people would be blown away at how much draft boards differ from team to team. People always assume that all 32 NFL or all 30 MLB teams have the same draft board as Todd McShay, however they are very very different.

Case in point, in 2008 the San Francisco Giants drafted 8 big leaguers in their draft. The norm for a team is 3. The night before the draft, GM Brian Sabean walked into the draft room, looked at the board, and then looked at his scouting director and said, "This board is really 17ed up, or we are going to have an unbelievable draft."

The point is that talent evaluation is a very very very subjective business, and we as football fans lose sight of that due to the star system, expert opinions, etc., however, you never know.

Cardinals reliever Kevin Seigrist was drafted in the 41st round in 2008. He never hit 90mph in the year that the Cardinals were scouting him. However, he now pitches at 95-97 mph in the big leagues.

Not saying the Coach 57 is wrong, however, it is way to early to call guys busts, and also remember, that no matter how good a talent evaluator a person is, it is still only 1 mans opinion.

I am going to second this. If we had a like button I would have used it instead. Thomas is in his 3rd practice as a college SEC lineman. Way too early to write someone off. Thomas was scouted very close by our coaching staff due to his proximity. Maybe he just had a bad day. Maybe he ate mexican food prior to going out to practice. I have no idea of the reason, but fact of the matter is that he got pushed around today. Tomorrow is another day to improve. I love the mentality of the team. Get better everyday.

[AlSwearengen]

I agree that it is way to early to decide about anyone. Thomas did pretty good in the army all star game and I remember the announcers giving him props. It may be that he is trying to learn new footwork and is doing better than the others at trying to implement it and it is slowing him down quite a bit.

[Coach 57]

Look I have seen Thomas on film. I know this is a different board but I bragged about him on SPS all the time. I also was the one who reported Thomas looked amazing in the big Dawg camp against EVERYBODY! I never said he was a "bust". He is a TrFr. But he and Jones will forever be linked to the hip because they came from the same class & both will grind in each other till one is no longer there (draft, injured..etc). It is my opinion though as Shotgun said. I ain't nobody special. Just thought I owed it to the board to give a honest report from practice.

[MSUDawg4Life]

We appreciate the report, Coach. Others who were there said basically the same thing so don't sweat it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Look I have seen Thomas on film. I know this is a different board but I bragged about him on SPS all the time. I also was the one who reported Thomas looked amazing in the big Dawg camp against EVERYBODY! I never said he was a "bust". He is a TrFr. But he and Jones will forever be linked to the hip because they came from the same class & both will grind in each other till one is no longer there (draft, injured..etc). It is my opinion though as Shotgun said. I ain't nobody special. Just thought I owed it to the board to give a honest report from practice.


Coach, I wasn't questioning your evaluation ability, as I think you are aware of because you understand how this stuff works. I wrote what I wrote so that people who don't understand the evaluation process could better understand it and understand that you weren't calling anyone a bust. I wouldn't care if Bill Parcells himself wrote about the evaluations of our players, Parcells would've won the Super Bowl every year if he was right about every player. The truth is that the evaluation process is very subjective, and you don't have to be right all the time or even half the time, you just have to be right more than your competition.

[hacker]

Not shocking on thomas. He will be depth for 4 years.

Is this a troll? It was the third day of his freshman camp. Jesus Christ.

[Coach 57]

@Shotgun- no pun taken at all. I hear ya. It's all good.

[CadaverDawg]

Is this a troll? It was the third day of his freshman camp. Jesus Christ.

Exactly. I think Ennis is right that Jake was a little over rated as a 4 star, but in NO way does that mean he can't develop into a great OLineman for us. WAY too early to be saying a guy will "be depth for 4 years" in my opinion. Not to mention he is an overrated 4 star going up against one of, if not THE, best D Ends in his class. No reason to jump the gun on Jake. Hopefully he will compete with Jones for the next few years in practice and it will make him better and he will end up starting by the time he's a Junior. You never know.

[Bully13]

Exactly. I think Ennis is right that Jake was a little over rated as a 4 star, but in NO way does that mean he can't develop into a great OLineman for us. WAY too early to be saying a guy will "be depth for 4 years" in my opinion. Not to mention he is an overrated 4 star going up against one of, if not THE, best D Ends in his class. No reason to jump the gun on Jake. Hopefully he will compete with Jones for the next few years in practice and it will make him better and he will end up starting by the time he's a Junior. You never know.

Ennis found out that Jake goes to Church every Sunday and didn't go to the premier of broke back mountain therefore he will never pan out.

[Political Hack]

1) we badly need a political board.

2) Cole Carter is a stud, has been a stud, and will be a stud. I've said this since his recruitment and still think so.

3) Jake Thomas will be a good college player, but his upside is limited.

4) Torrey Dale can be a lottery pick if Balis heya a hold of him.

5) Chris Jones will be a lottery pick unless our coaches somehow screw him up.

[msstate7]

1) we badly need a political board.

2) Cole Carter is a stud, has been a stud, and will be a stud. I've said this since his recruitment and still think so.

3) Jake Thomas will be a good college player, but his upside is limited.

4) Torrey Dale can be a lottery pick if Balis heya a hold of him.

5) Chris Jones will be a lottery pick unless our coaches somehow screw him up.

1. !!!!!!

[Political Hack]

poo

[Bully13]

Why say that when our current staff has no history of screwing up players ? Development and putting 2 and 3 star players in the
1st round has been the norm of late. The croom era is over

[Political Hack]

Why say that when our current staff has no history of screwing up players ? Development and putting 2 and 3 star players in the
1st round has been the norm of late. The croom era is over

then, in your mind, he's a lock. be happy.

In my mind, Michael Carr, Broomfield, Hardy Templeton, James Carmon and a few others could've been managed better. Can't save them all and our staff does a great job, but they're also not scared to cut bait if someone is a problem. That's a good thing generally.

[Pollodawg]

then, in your mind, he's a lock. be happy.

In my mind, Michael Carr, Broomfield, Hardy Templeton, James Carmon and a few others could've been managed better. Can't save them all and our staff does a great job, but they're also not scared to cut bait if someone is a problem. That's a good thing generally.

Did it feel to anyone else like Broomfield kind of just seemed to fade away as his career wore on?

[Irondawg]

If I recall I think they have Thomas playing LT right now, but i think he projected as more of a RT from several folks I heard from and some thought he might be a better G. Paul said flowers was a G today and i really thought we'd have him more at T. Maybe it a sign of where they think the JUCO guys will play next year

[msstate7]

If I recall I think they have Thomas playing LT right now, but i think he projected as more of a RT from several folks I heard from and some thought he might be a better G. Paul said flowers was a G today and i really thought we'd have him more at T. Maybe it a sign of where they think the JUCO guys will play next year

I hope Avery gennesy is one of our tackles next season

[thedawg]

Broomfields fade was in that we wasn't as good as slay or banks. He also wasnt as good at nickle as Love. He had some skills but he wasn't an NFL guy. They tried to get him on the field at safety and he just wasn't a safety. Then his small frame started getting banged up and the he faded away. With the logjam we have at corner with great young talent you will see one or two more good players "fade" away.

And thomas will be a fine college player. Hes addison lawrence caliber talent and will start for us for twoish years at guard or right tackle.