More Hevesy Love

[Coach34]

You want to really sum up our OL recruiting?

LT- the most important offensive line position- the last 5 years:

James Carmen- converted defensive tackle
Blaine Clausell- 2-star nobody from Mobile
Rufus Warren- converted TE

Thats in Years 3-7 of the Mullen ERA

[defiantdog]

That damn Carmen experiment

[Coach34]

That's the LT position since they inherited Sherrod

[t45fixer]

The guy needs to recruit some talent on the O line. It's not hard. Why is it sooooo fxxxing hard for us?

[CadaverDawg]

Welcome to what some of us have been saying since 2012 (the years that led us to our current shittiness on OL), while you were defending his sorry ass.

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?6981-What-needs-to-happen-if-we-win-5-or-less-this-season&highlight=Hevesy+problem

[Coach34]

well- he developed the group and put together a solid OL for 2014. But you cant follow that up with the worst OL our school has had in the last 25 years

You cant preach what awesome feet Warren has and his potential-and then him be ****ing awful

[Really Clark?]

well- he developed the group and put together a solid OL for 2014. But you cant follow that up with the worst OL our school has had in the last 25 years

You cant preach what awesome feet Warren has and his potential-and then him be ****ing awful

This is true. He also had the OL in 2013 playing pass protection maybe the best of any year. Especially against that schedule. But a new voice is probably needed at this point.

[ShotgunDawg]

Our recruiting network needs to assure that MSU, at all times, has a capable LT, difference making WR, 2 5 star caliber DT, 1 elite DE, & a shut down corner.

That's 6 players on the entire 85 man roster that our recruiting network needs to absolutely assure that we always have. I would add QB, but I'm not sure how big of a difference a recruiting network can make in getting you a QB. That has to be developed & evaluated. Before you say Patterson, he hasn't done a damn thing in the SEC yet.

[Coach34]

And what is the most concerning- is that we take pride in being a "developmental program"

An OL made up of 2 5 years guys, 2 4 years guys, and a talented 3rd year guy ending up as the worst OL of the last 25 years is absolutely ridiculous. That's not "developmental" in any shape, form, or fashion

[mic]

We don't have to be 5 or 4 stars across the board... But **** when is the last OL we signed that we knew would be a 3 or 4 year starter...
And I agree go out a find us a bookend or 2.... It's amazing the #1 juco OT has to redshirt for us this past year..

[Liverpooldawg]

You want to really sum up our OL recruiting?

LT- the most important offensive line position- the last 5 years:

James Carmen- converted defensive tackle
Blaine Clausell- 2-star nobody from Mobile
Rufus Warren- converted TE

Thats in Years 3-7 of the Mullen ERA

In fairness Clausell turned out to be a petty decent college LT. The other two........well.

[Coach34]

In fairness Clausell turned out to be a petty decent college LT. The other two........well.

decent yes- but wasnt even drafted.

Not one Hevesy recruit has been drafted

[Alldawg]

Coach, you of all people should know better. He is not fully responsible for recruiting the OL. Coaches recruit territories. The OL recruiting falls in Dan's lap more than Hev. Now, if you want to state for a FACT that offensive linemen do not want to come play under him, you will make a point. Hell, imagine he wasn't here to transform those three into serviceable linemen. Seems like another school close by has been bitching about getting them to campus but not coaching them up. Would you trade OL coaches with them today?

[Sacrifice]

What I couldn't understand was as bad as our OL was, nobody lost there spot. I mean is our OL depth that bad?

[Coach34]

Coach, you of all people should know better. He is not fully responsible for recruiting the OL. Coaches recruit territories.

yes they do- but the position coach has more influence than anybody- even the HC

Hev has helped pull in Dakota and Chris Jones- but he cant get a decent OL recruit for shit. You telling me the rest of our staff is that inept at recruiting for the OL??? Hayyyyyyyle no they arent.

[PassInterference]

We don't have to be 5 or 4 stars across the board... But **** when is the last OL we signed that we knew would be a 3 or 4 year starter...
.

Dillon Day

[Coach34]

What I couldn't understand was as bad as our OL was, nobody lost there spot. I mean is our OL depth that bad?

Thats the other elephant in the room...yes, yes it was. And we only lost 3 of our top 10 linemen from 2014

[Leroy Jenkins]

Dillon Day

I dont know if anyone knew that Day (as a 265lb HS SR) would be a multi year starter.

http://imgix.scout.com/75/755630.jpg?w=240&h=240&fit=crop&crop=faces

[SheltonChoked]

While I agree that our OL has been bad, 2003 Kevin Fant disagrees with the worst OL on 25 years.

[mic]

I dont know if anyone knew that Day (as a 265lb HS SR) would be a multi year starter.

http://imgix.scout.com/75/755630.jpg?w=240&h=240&fit=crop&crop=faces

Exactly... But I agree get kids like this in here.. Hard nose mother ****ers...

[ShotgunDawg]

Talent evaluation is extremely tough, &, unless you are landing the "known" top guys, you will have hits & misses. There's no way around it.

[War Machine Dawg]

While I agree that our OL has been bad, 2003 Kevin Fant disagrees with the worst OL on 25 years.

Amen. That was literally the worst OL I've ever seen at any level of football. Even if we'd had 3-step drop in our offense, it wouldn't have mattered. He would get hit at 2.5 steps on the 5-step drop routinely. Had a buddy say back then that Avery House didn't cast a shadow because he couldn't block daylight.

All that said - Hev sucks and needs to go. Yesterday.

[War Machine Dawg]

Talent evaluation is extremely tough, &, unless you are landing the "known" top guys, you will have hits & misses. There's no way around it.

No one is saying OL crootin is easy. It's probably the hardest position to evaluate. But you can't tell me the rate we're missing on OL is average. It isn't and what we're seeing with our eyes on the field is proof. First thing I'd start looking for is a mean streak on the field. Everything else, except size, can be taught. But we only have about 3 guys with an SEC mean streak on the OL right now. And one is playing out of position.

[Jack Lambert]

The guy needs to recruit some talent on the O line. It's not hard. Why is it sooooo fxxxing hard for us?

I think it's because Dan wants to go fast and he is trying to recruit guys who can do it but the problem is these real good DL are just better and can keep up. They just need to change who they are recruiting.

My seat was above where the O-Line bench was and eveytime we were on Defense The coach was drawing stuff on the board but it didn't look like they were paying any attention to him. Hell one guy always had his helmet halfway off, cup in right hand looking down at the ground. He looked like the fat kid that the coach didn't give him a popcycle and he was upset. Pissed me off every time.

[Liverpooldawg]

decent yes- but wasnt even drafted.

Not one Hevesy recruit has been drafted

In all honesty I could care less about the draft. I wish our guys well in the NFL but if it folded tomorrow I probably wouldn't notice.

[Coach34]

In all honesty I could care less about the draft. I wish our guys well in the NFL but if it folded tomorrow I probably wouldn't notice.

Well, unfortunately Socrates- the NFL draft is a measure of overall talent. Our OL guys Hev is recruiting dont have it

[maroonmania]

I dont know if anyone knew that Day (as a 265lb HS SR) would be a multi year starter.

http://imgix.scout.com/75/755630.jpg?w=240&h=240&fit=crop&crop=faces

Especially given we didn't offer until signing day. Not usually when you offer a guy you expect to be a multi year starter.

[maroonmania]

While I agree that our OL has been bad, 2003 Kevin Fant disagrees with the worst OL on 25 years.

This year's OL was in the running for the worst in the last 25 years for run blocking but not for overall OL. We've definitely had some that couldn't do much in the run game or in pass protection.

[Irondawg]

No one is saying OL crootin is easy. It's probably the hardest position to evaluate. But you can't tell me the rate we're missing on OL is average. It isn't and what we're seeing with our eyes on the field is proof. First thing I'd start looking for is a mean streak on the field. Everything else, except size, can be taught. But we only have about 3 guys with an SEC mean streak on the OL right now. And one is playing out of position.

That the things - when they all talk about guys and watch the films and debate who gets an offer and who doesn't i'm guessing the position coaches opinion gets weighted a little more heavily. And whatever they are looking for in OL is not turning is no producing results so they need to go back to the drawing board there. OL, S and RB evlauations have not been very good lately.

[grinnindawg]

We have done a poor job recruiting the OL the last few years.
However, the last 2 years on offense have been the best in school history.

How did our awful OL manage to participate in the 2nd most prolific offense in school history?
If they get all the blame, they have to be given some of the credit

They were bad run blocking, although I think a lot of that was (32+10)>(27+33+22) in the math our staff used.
Wish Josh had stayed another year.
Pass blocking against everyone but Bama and OM was stellar.

To me, our losses were as much or more on Dan and Dak than the OL and Hevesy.

The entire staff recruits OL, not just Hevesy.
I'm sure he has to close some deals, but it's not all on him.
If he's that big of a liability, send him to a Dale Carnegie course or something.

[War Machine Dawg]

That the things - when they all talk about guys and watch the films and debate who gets an offer and who doesn't i'm guessing the position coaches opinion gets weighted a little more heavily. And whatever they are looking for in OL is not turning is no producing results so they need to go back to the drawing board there. OL, S and RB evlauations have not been very good lately.

S and RB are fine. Bryant, Peters and McLaurin are all badass. RB has way more to do with Mullen's annual personnel mismanagement cluster**** and the OL. Ray Charles could have seen Williams & Lee needed to be the guys primarily toting the rock this season with Holloway as the change of pace back. But Knox & Mullen thought Shump & Holloway were every down backs, just like they thought LDP was 2 seasons ago while J-Rob sat on the bench.

[Todd4State]

We have done a poor job recruiting the OL the last few years.
However, the last 2 years on offense have been the best in school history.

How did our awful OL manage to participate in the 2nd most prolific offense in school history?
If they get all the blame, they have to be given some of the credit

They were bad run blocking, although I think a lot of that was (32+10)>(27+33+22) in the math our staff used.
Wish Josh had stayed another year.
Pass blocking against everyone but Bama and OM was stellar.

To me, our losses were as much or more on Dan and Dak than the OL and Hevesy.

The entire staff recruits OL, not just Hevesy.
I'm sure he has to close some deals, but it's not all on him.
If he's that big of a liability, send him to a Dale Carnegie course or something.

In each of our four losses, we lost the battle in the trenches badly. Heck- between Alabama and Ole Miss alone- we were SACKED 16 times!

[Sacrifice]

You would think since Dans offense is so predicated around running the football, we'd never be in this position. He's gonna have to get some Linemen or go spend the summer with Mike Leach.

[Todd4State]

S and RB are fine. Bryant, Peters and McLaurin are all badass. RB has way more to do with Mullen's annual personnel mismanagement cluster**** and the OL. Ray Charles could have seen Williams & Lee needed to be the guys primarily toting the rock this season with Holloway as the change of pace back. But Knox & Mullen thought Shump & Holloway were every down backs, just like they thought LDP was 2 seasons ago while J-Rob sat on the bench.

Exactly! Aeris and Shumpert were 4 star guys and then Nick Gibson who redshirted is also a 4 star guy. Peters was a 4 star Army AA and McLaurin was a 4 star guy. And Bryant played at Rosa Fort where players are notoriously under the radar.

It's interesting how the position coaches ALWAYS agree that the upper classmen are the ALWAYS the ones that should be playing the most. That leads me to believe that is coming from somewhere else- like a head coach that thinks that he can just plug anyone into his offense and it will work.

[Todd4State]

You would think since Dans offense is so predicated around running the football, we'd never be in this position. He's gonna have to get some Linemen or go spend the summer with Mike Leach.

You would BUT it makes sense if you have an o-line coach that can't evaluate or develop talent. I'm pretty sure that if Dan was honest he would say that what we were last year was not what he would want us to be ideally.

[cheewgumm]

Yes our OL is garbage. I've never heard of a team giving up 10 sacks in one game.... Ever.


If we don't get Lashley then Hevessy should go.

[Todd4State]

In all honesty I could care less about the draft. I wish our guys well in the NFL but if it folded tomorrow I probably wouldn't notice.

That doesn't mean you don't want them on your team.

[Todd4State]

Yes our OL is garbage. I've never heard of a team giving up 10 sacks in one game.... Ever.


If we don't get Lashley then Hevessy should go.

If it were me I would consider starting Lashley or at the very least give him a loooonngg look. And I'm one of those people that thinks you should always RS o-linemen.

But yes, losing a relative of Johnie Cooks living in West Point and us NOT getting him should be grounds for dismissal.

[Coach34]

Lashley is not ready to start in the SEC- he needs to RS. But he will be a really good R-Fr

[Todd4State]

Lashley is not ready to start in the SEC- he needs to RS. But he will be a really good R-Fr

I totally agree. I just wonder if he is as good or better than Senior next year- because let's be honest Senior isn't ready to start in the SEC either. I would be surprised if we don't redshirt him.

[Gatordog]

I think it's because Dan wants to go fast and he is trying to recruit guys who can do it but the problem is these real good DL are just better and can keep up. They just need to change who they are recruiting.

My seat was above where the O-Line bench was and eveytime we were on Defense The coach was drawing stuff on the board but it didn't look like they were paying any attention to him. Hell one guy always had his helmet halfway off, cup in right hand looking down at the ground. He looked like the fat kid that the coach didn't give him a popcycle and he was upset. Pissed me off every time.

I saw the same thing. Desper never looked at Hevesy. He could have cared less what he was saying. He either completely despises Hevesy or he is a participation trophy winner. There is a problem with both of those scenarios.

[starkvegasdawg]

I saw the same thing. Desper never looked at Hevesy. He could have cared less what he was saying. He either completely despises Hevesy or he is a participation trophy winner. There is a problem with both of those scenarios.

You'd think the number of times he got blown up this year he'd try to pay attention and learn something.

[Bucky Dog]

Not defending but we have landed our 4-5* in Robinson, Thomas and Rankin, who just did not, or have not proven that ranking. I agree on both that line recruiting is not exclusively on Hev, but also believe the development of them is all on him.

[NCDawg]

Yes our OL is garbage. I've never heard of a team giving up 10 sacks in one game.... Ever.


If we don't get Lashley then Hevessy should go.

He should go anyway, regardless of whether or not we get Lashley. Bottom line is that he is a poor OL coach. Ironic that we have had Croom-McCorvey, and now Mullen-Hevesy. Two head coaches that will not get rid of their buddy who is incapable of getting the job done.

[Political Hack]

The position coaches get a "yes" or "no"'decision on their targets regardless of who their area recruiting lead is. also, two coaches are responsible for each recruit. One based on area. The other based on position.

Hev hasn't recruited a single guy that's been drafted yet for his position group. Being in the SEC, that's pretty amazing.

[I seen it dawg]

**** that guy

[HoopsDawg]

Not defending but we have landed our 4-5* in Robinson, Thomas and Rankin, who just did not, or have not proven that ranking. I agree on both that line recruiting is not exclusively on Hev, but also believe the development of them is all on him.

Rankin yes. No one thought Robinson or Thomas were 4 stars. They had no other offers come signing day.

[HancockCountyDog]

Rankin yes. No one thought Robinson or Thomas were 4 stars. They had no other offers come signing day.

Whoa, that's not a narrative we are allowed to discuss.

[engie]

Hev could still get the ULM job. He's been open about wanting to be a head coach -- that's one spot he could conceivably land and has been mentioned.

[maroonmania]

Not defending but we have landed our 4-5* in Robinson, Thomas and Rankin, who just did not, or have not proven that ranking. I agree on both that line recruiting is not exclusively on Hev, but also believe the development of them is all on him.

On 2 of those 3 I'm not surprised at all they were busts. Even a so-so fan of recruiting knew that interest for both Robinson and Thomas fell WAY off toward the end of their recruitments from SEC and other P5 schools. That's a HUGE red flag that the players weren't developing and performing at the levels expected during their HS senior year. Now with Rankin I'm not sure what the deal is there. He was wanted by a number of good schools out of JUCO but wasn't good enough to avoid a RS after going through a full Spring with us. That's not a promising development.

[maroonmania]

I saw the same thing. Desper never looked at Hevesy. He could have cared less what he was saying. He either completely despises Hevesy or he is a participation trophy winner. There is a problem with both of those scenarios.

That sort of sounds like Stansbury during the last part of his tenure with his basketball teams at MSU. Stans would call a timeout and be telling his team all kinds of stuff while the players acted like they were more interested with what was happening with the fans in the stands than anything Stans had to say.

[maroonmania]

He should go anyway, regardless of whether or not we get Lashley. Bottom line is that he is a poor OL coach. Ironic that we have had Croom-McCorvey, and now Mullen-Hevesy. Two head coaches that will not get rid of their buddy who is incapable of getting the job done.

I personally think its more of a talent and recruiting problem than a coaching problem with Hev. NOBODY in the SEC recruits more projects at the OL position than we do. Not even Vandy and Kentucky. Hev is a recruiting problem and apparently only so so on evaluating guys that he thinks he can coach up. I believe, like last year and with the improvement we saw immediately in 2009, if Hev has decent material he gets pretty good results.

[Todd4State]

Hev could still get the ULM job. He's been open about wanting to be a head coach -- that's one spot he could conceivably land and has been mentioned.

Why would they want him?

[engie]

Why would they want him?

He's viewed more highly in the cfb world than he is by our fanbase. Much like Dan, actually

[Todd4State]

He's viewed more highly in the cfb world than he is by our fanbase. Much like Dan, actually

Well OK. I'm glad I'm not a ULM fan though.

[Bubb Rubb]

You guys are kinda missing the point here. Yes, our offensive line was bad. I was on here cursing about Warren after the USM game and was getting killed for it, but unfortunately, it was a sign of things to come.

That said, you can scheme around your shortcomings on the line. All those sacks we gave up against Bama and OM had as much to do with the playcalling as it did with the offensive line woes. Mullen did not make adjustments to the playcalling and the offensive scheme to minimize the risk created by the offensive line.

When you take a five step drop and go through three or four progressions behind our offensive line against a defensive front like Bama, you're gonna get sacked, period.

[Todd4State]

You guys are kinda missing the point here. Yes, our offensive line was bad. I was on here cursing about Warren after the USM game and was getting killed for it, but unfortunately, it was a sign of things to come.

That said, you can scheme around your shortcomings on the line. All those sacks we gave up against Bama and OM had as much to do with the playcalling as it did with the offensive line woes. Mullen did not make adjustments to the playcalling and the offensive scheme to minimize the risk created by the offensive line.

When you take a five step drop and go through three or four progressions behind our offensive line against a defensive front like Bama, you're gonna get sacked, period.

This is a good point. And it didn't help that we rarely used a TE or a FB to help the line out.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Yes our OL is garbage. I've never heard of a team giving up 10 sacks in one game.... Ever.

Hevessy should go.

FIFY.

[ScottH]

I read earlier on 247 that we there is no connection to the 4 star lineman in Hawaii we recently offered.

A quick review of the 247 recruiting data (I'm sure not all inclusive but a good snapshot) showed 45 or so OL offers. These were made in about 11 states. West of Louisiana there were 4 in Texas. 2 in Hawaii.

A thought occurred to me. Why would you skip all of the midwestern and western US and offer 1 or 2 Hawaii players that have zero connection to MSU, Mississippi or a coach on the staff?

Cynically, I can only figure Hevesy wanted a paid trip to Hawaii. Am I missing something?

[mic]

You would think Hev and CDM would have built a few relationships with coaches and schools or at least be familiar with some high schools in the mid west with the time they spent at BG and Utah with urban..
And we could tap that area for a few players or a least have a shot at some...
But I'm sure they didn't ...
One is too arrogant and one is just too lazy...