For those of you attempting to project how good/bad we will be next season.......

[Taog Redloh]

2015 team loses 14 seniors, many of them impact players, which hurts. But every team in America loses seniors and gains freshmen, and seniors are most often the best players. Goes without saying, but many lose sight of this when projecting returning starters and what not.

The 2016 team, as of this moment, has 34 rising seniors! Yes, you read that right. However, we must take into account Jones and Wilson leaving, and Rankin/Jung redshirted and will remain juniors. That's still 30 rising seniors, more than twice the amount of the 2015 team. For reference, the mighty 2014 team that the media said lose 843 starters, had only 18 seniors.

What does this tell you? Without looking at the actual players, it says at minimum we'll have a deep, senior laden team. Talent? Who knows. But the team breaks down like this:

Seniors: 30
Juniors: 14
Sophomores: 26
Reshirt Freshmen: 19
Freshmen: whatever the crootin class is

We might not be quite as bad as some of you want to think. I know people see that we lose so and so and think it's the end of the world, but it's not just one player replacing them, it's a whole team of depth and seniority. Just straight numbers. No one player really stands out that much in college football, except QB, so yes that is a concern. But if you are like me and thought Dak was a good player but not a once in a decade phenom, the future appears bright.

**** Thread inspired by the '15 redshirt freshmen thread and Coach34's early Mullen agenda ****

[ChevChelios]

Agree. Next years team will be a 8+ win team.

[cheewgumm]

We'll win 7 or 8

[Cowboydawg]

2015 team loses 14 seniors, many of them impact players, which hurts. But every team in America loses seniors and gains freshmen, and seniors are most often the best players. Goes without saying, but many lose sight of this when projecting returning starters and what not.

The 2016 team, as of this moment, has 34 rising seniors! Yes, you read that right. However, we must take into account Jones and Wilson leaving, and Rankin/Jung redshirted and will remain juniors. That's still 30 rising seniors, more than twice the amount of the 2015 team. For reference, the mighty 2014 team that the media said lose 843 starters, had only 18 seniors.

What does this tell you? Without looking at the actual players, it says at minimum we'll have a deep, senior laden team. Talent? Who knows. But the team breaks down like this:

Seniors: 30
Juniors: 14
Sophomores: 26
Reshirt Freshmen: 19
Freshmen: whatever the crootin class is

We might not be quite as bad as some of you want to think. I know people see that we lose so and so and think it's the end of the world, but it's not just one player replacing them, it's a whole team of depth and seniority. Just straight numbers. No one player really stands out that much in college football, except QB, so yes that is a concern. But if you are like me and thought Dak was a good player but not a once in a decade phenom, the future appears bright.

**** Thread inspired by the '15 redshirt freshmen thread and Coach34's early Mullen agenda ****

And for those wondering why Rankin redshirted...this is a big reason why right here. He very well might have been our best tackle by the end of the year especially with the injuries but the coaches made a decision that he's more important to our 2017 team than the 2015 team. We will be very glad we have him in 2017.

[maroonmania]

It's all up to our OL. If there isn't significant improvement there we will do well to make a bowl game. We will have an inexperienced QB, likely without Bear, and no proven RB. Don't believe we will even approach 8 wins next year without a much improved running game. For one thing, we will no longer have 4 automatic OOC wins. BYU on the road will be a tough one to add to our conference slate.

[cujo]

It's all up to our OL. If there isn't significant improvement there we will do well to make a bowl game. We will have an inexperienced QB, likely without Bear, and no proven RB. Don't believe we will even approach 8 wins next year without a much improved running game. For one thing, we will no longer have 4 automatic OOC wins. BYU on the road will be a tough one to add to our conference slate.

nm

[defiantdog]

Agree. Next years team will be a 8+ win team.
8+ is generous to team with a new qb, no stand out rb, horrible ol and a stupid young secondary

[Coach34]

6-6

Seniors like:

RB Ashton Shumpert
OG Devon Desper
S Kivon Coman
DT Torrey Dale
RB Brandon Holloway
CB Tolando Cleveland
CB Cedric Jiles
S Deontay Evans
LB Deandre Ward
DB Brandon Davis
Ath Lawrence Brown
DE Will Coleman
OL Jocquell Johnson
Ath Rodney Lacy
WR Javous Nicks
Ath Brian Houston
Also- drop your number by another one- Cole Carter came out for Sr Day- he is leaving the team after graduation. And we better hope Nick James doesnt get a draft grade or he could bolt

Thats just the cold hard truth right there.

[CadaverDawg]

nm

TrollTooHard

[CadaverDawg]

6-6

Seniors like:

RB Ashton Shumpert
OG Devon Desper
S Kivon Coman
DT Torrey Dale
RB Brandon Holloway
CB Tolando Cleveland
CB Cedric Jiles
S Deontay Evans
LB Deandre Ward
DB Brandon Davis
Ath Lawrence Brown
DE Will Coleman
OL Jocquell Johnson
Ath Rodney Lacy
WR Javous Nicks
Ath Brian Houston
Also- drop your number by another one- Cole Carter came out for Sr Day- he is leaving the team after graduation. And we better hope Nick James doesnt get a draft grade or he could bolt

Thats just the cold hard truth right there.

So coming into this season we were going to be great on the OL because we returned several snaps on the OL plus we develop well....but now you're writing off Seniors on the OL with even more snaps, experience, and development?

Damn, one "down" season of 8 wins has made you abandon all of your usual talking points. Even taking the opposite side of your usual arguments now. You should see if Bleacher Report is hiring, Barrett.*

Desper, Coman, Holloway, Jiles, Cleveland, Coleman and Johnson are all guys on your list that will play a lot next year...and with an extra year, most will be solid, serviceable guys. Hell, Shumpert is a Special Teams monster so I'm glad to have him back if for that alone.

[HoopsDawg]

Yeah, I don't love our roster next year. Our corners look extremely weak. Our front 4 is the weakest it has been in several years, maybe the entire Mullen era and the depth is definitely the worst.

Breaking in a new QB on offense with an average at best O-line. And Bear moving on leaves a big hole at outside WR. He made a lot of plays the past 2 years.

[NCDawg]

6-6

Seniors like:

RB Ashton Shumpert
OG Devon Desper
S Kivon Coman
DT Torrey Dale
RB Brandon Holloway
CB Tolando Cleveland
CB Cedric Jiles
S Deontay Evans
LB Deandre Ward
DB Brandon Davis
Ath Lawrence Brown
DE Will Coleman
OL Jocquell Johnson
Ath Rodney Lacy
WR Javous Nicks
Ath Brian Houston
Also- drop your number by another one- Cole Carter came out for Sr Day- he is leaving the team after graduation. And we better hope Nick James doesnt get a draft grade or he could bolt

Thats just the cold hard truth right there.

But some of us can't handle the truth.

[CadaverDawg]

We won't win 9 games or anything...but we should win 6-7, which isn't bad for a "bad roster" year

[Coach34]

So coming into this season we were going to be great on the OL because we returned several snaps on the OL plus we develop well....but now you're writing off Seniors on the OL with even more snaps, experience, and development?

Damn, one "down" season of 8 wins has made you abandon all of your usual talking points. Even taking the opposite side of your usual arguments now. You should see if Bleacher Report is hiring, Barrett.*

We are seeing that we havent been developing well. Desper was awful- he isnt going to make a huge some leap from Year 4 to Year 5. Like Beckwith- you could see Beckwith playing very well at the end of his 4th season. Desper? Not so much. That was the worst OL of the Hevesy Era- and they have a long damn way to go to even being decent. Let us not forget our green QB's wont be making decisions as quickly next season as Prescott did.

2015 should have in no way been a down season with 6 draft picks on it in the Jr-Sr classes alone. We are about to see down with a new QB, below par OL, no identity at RB, below average CB's, and a below average DL. If ya'll think we struggled with Spread teams this year- just wait

[Coach34]

Yeah, I don't love our roster next year. Our corners look extremely weak. Our front 4 is the weakest it has been in several years, maybe the entire Mullen era and the depth is definitely the worst.

Breaking in a new QB on offense with an average at best O-line. And Bear moving on leaves a big hole at outside WR. He made a lot of plays the past 2 years.

exactly. I dont see how anybody looks at our roster for next year and isnt scared to death

[CadaverDawg]

Let us not forget our green QB's wont be making decisions as quickly next season as Prescott did.

Slower than "Checkdown Charlie"? Dang.

[maroonmania]

So coming into this season we were going to be great on the OL because we returned several snaps on the OL plus we develop well....but now you're writing off Seniors on the OL with even more snaps, experience, and development?

Damn, one "down" season of 8 wins has made you abandon all of your usual talking points. Even taking the opposite side of your usual arguments now. You should see if Bleacher Report is hiring, Barrett.*

Desper, Coman, Holloway, Jiles, Cleveland, Coleman and Johnson are all guys on your list that will play a lot next year...and with an extra year, most will be solid, serviceable guys. Hell, Shumpert is a Special Teams monster so I'm glad to have him back if for that alone.

CD, my issue with the OL is the lack of real improvement through the year. If we had started off the year with the run blocking not so good but improved through the year I would be more optimistic. I know we had some injuries but given the lack of getting much better from the first of the year to the end am I really supposed to believe things will get better next season? And we do lose Warren and Malone for whatever that means.

[CadaverDawg]

exactly. I dont see how anybody looks at our roster for next year and isnt scared to death

I don't see anybody projecting a West Title...but at the same time, most of us also haven't completely lost our minds about Mullen & the 2015 season. We still have a lot of talent...it's just young talent.

[maroonmania]

exactly. I dont see how anybody looks at our roster for next year and isnt scared to death

Yep, I've already thought in the back of my mind that the roster issue could have at least been a factor in Mullen shopping himself more aggressively this year.

[CadaverDawg]

CD, my issue with the OL is the lack of real improvement through the year. If we had started off the year with the run blocking not so good but improved through the year I would be more optimistic. I know we had some injuries but given the lack of getting much better from the first of the year to the end am I really supposed to believe things will get better next season? And we do lose Warren and Malone for whatever that means.

Oh I'm concerned as hell about the state of our OL...but I also know that Mullen and Hevesy know it's a problem too, so I expect tons of work in the offseason and improvement next year. We have several young OL that I think can step up, to go along with Jenkins, Clayborn, Senior. Guys like Calhoun, Cochran, Moon...and Juco guys with years under them like Johnson and Rankin. We'll clearly be better on the OL...can't be worse. Plus, we won't go into the year thinking Shumpert is our RB, so that will help.

[HoopsDawg]

Yep, I've already thought in the back of my mind that the roster issue could have at least been a factor in Mullen shopping himself more aggressively this year.

absolutely. how many pros do we have on next year's roster in the junior/senior class. Maybe Ross. Maybe Nick James if he comes back. That's it. Also, I've read 2 recruit interviews today and both Cam Dantzler and Emmit Gooden asked our coaches about the Mullen rumors. Mullen and the assistant coaches are going to have to fight that issue all the way until signing day.

[the59dawg]

2015 team loses 14 seniors, many of them impact players, which hurts. But every team in America loses seniors and gains freshmen, and seniors are most often the best players. Goes without saying, but many lose sight of this when projecting returning starters and what not.

The 2016 team, as of this moment, has 34 rising seniors! Yes, you read that right. However, we must take into account Jones and Wilson leaving, and Rankin/Jung redshirted and will remain juniors. That's still 30 rising seniors, more than twice the amount of the 2015 team. For reference, the mighty 2014 team that the media said lose 843 starters, had only 18 seniors.

What does this tell you? Without looking at the actual players, it says at minimum we'll have a deep, senior laden team. Talent? Who knows. But the team breaks down like this:

Seniors: 30
Juniors: 14
Sophomores: 26
Reshirt Freshmen: 19
Freshmen: whatever the crootin class is

We might not be quite as bad as some of you want to think. I know people see that we lose so and so and think it's the end of the world, but it's not just one player replacing them, it's a whole team of depth and seniority. Just straight numbers. No one player really stands out that much in college football, except QB, so yes that is a concern. But if you are like me and thought Dak was a good player but not a once in a decade phenom, the future appears bright.

**** Thread inspired by the '15 redshirt freshmen thread and Coach34's early Mullen agenda ****

Your numbers add up to 89 plus the incoming freshman. Way more than the allowed 85 on scholarship. Do we have that many walk-ons that you are counting?

[bulldawg28]

exactly. I dont see how anybody looks at our roster for next year and isnt scared to death

What next year Will do is cause all of that young talent to play. It's forcing Mullen's hand and the team will be better than expected. If the atmosphere and support is there the team could break 8 wins easily

[Coach34]

Desper, Coman, Holloway, Jiles, Cleveland, Coleman and Johnson are all guys on your list that will play a lot next year...

thats the problem

[HoopsDawg]

Oh I'm concerned as hell about the state of our OL...but I also know that Mullen and Hevesy know it's a problem too, so I expect tons of work in the offseason and improvement next year. We have several young OL that I think can step up, to go along with Jenkins, Clayborn, Senior. Guys like Calhoun, Cochran, Moon...and Juco guys with years under them like Johnson and Rankin. We'll clearly be better on the OL...can't be worse. Plus, we won't go into the year thinking Shumpert is our RB, so that will help.

Sorry man, but even mentioning a couple of those names that you mentioned shows you don't really know what you are talking about. Appreciate the positivity though it's not based on facts.

[Coach34]

What next year Will do is cause all of that young talent to play. It's forcing Mullen's hand and the team will be better than expected. If the atmosphere and support is there the team could break 8 wins easily

It always takes us half a season or more to make switches. We waited until Game 12 to replace Zach Jackson- that should have happened in Week 2

[CadaverDawg]

Sorry man, but even mentioning a couple of those names that you mentioned shows you don't really know what you are talking about. Appreciate the positivity though it's not based on facts.

They're all we've got, and Dan & Hev both know they have to improve it next year...so they'll have to. I'm not saying we have a great line returning..hell I've bashed Hevesy's recruiting for years. But we can't get worse than this year.

I know nothing about evaluating OL, never have claimed to...but I know they can only get better than 2015. Period.

[Really Clark?]

absolutely. how many pros do we have on next year's roster in the junior/senior class. Maybe Ross. Maybe Nick James if he comes back. That's it. Also, I've read 2 recruit interviews today and both Cam Dantzler and Emmit Gooden asked our coaches about the Mullen rumors. Mullen and the assistant coaches are going to have to fight that issue all the way until signing day.

Brown brothers will be drafted. AJ's size hurts but may get a shot. Donald Gray could definitely emerge but needs a great year. Fred Brown has late round practice squad potential. Rankin, if reports are correct, has that potential.

[NCDawg]

CD, my issue with the OL is the lack of real improvement through the year. If we had started off the year with the run blocking not so good but improved through the year I would be more optimistic. I know we had some injuries but given the lack of getting much better from the first of the year to the end am I really supposed to believe things will get better next season? And we do lose Warren and Malone for whatever that means.

Doesn't mean much.

[Coursesuper]

thats the problem


Agree that's the problem. Our O line was terrible and could be on the way butt ass horrible. Desper can't play dead in a western and not one of those DBs you listed is an SEC player.

[HoopsDawg]

Brown brothers will be drafted. AJ's size hurts but may get a shot. Donald Gray could definitely emerge but needs a great year. Fred Brown has late round practice squad potential. Rankin, if reports are correct, has that potential.

Yeah, pretty much no one you just named will get drafted.

[Really Clark?]

Yeah, pretty much no one you just named will get drafted.

What? At a min both Brown LB get drafted. They could go low round this year. Granted the others are stretches, maybe I wasn't clear on that but they have potential.

[Taog Redloh]

Your numbers add up to 89 plus the incoming freshman. Way more than the allowed 85 on scholarship. Do we have that many walk-ons that you are counting?
I counted the whole team, however they want to break it out.

The point was not to show the talent level, just the numbers. Talent is certainly a big part of it, but let's be truthful - at MSU, if our numbers aren't in line, we aren't going to succeed. Bottom line is that we have the base set in stone, so we won't be terrible like some say.

[defiantdog]

thats the problem

Johnson won't play a lot next year. I think Williams will pass him as center and Clayborne will be moved to guard. Also, Simmons is a big need because he's going to be a DT at the next level (similar to Chris Jones). He would plug a hole immediately. Also, look for Erroll to play some DE next year. He's good enough to jump right in the mix. I also think we move Green to DE some (but he'll mostly play LB). Look for Leo Lewis, Fletcher Adams, Nick Gibson, Timothy Washington (yes, he's put on about 20 lbs of muscle), Traver Jung (he's going to take Dez's place), Darryl Williams, Deddrick Thomas, Keith Mixon, Kendell Jones (he's better than Brown at DE), Anfernee Mullins, and big ass Michael Story to really step up next year. I'm not quite sold Alec Murphy or Jonnas Spivey quite yet. I also expect Lashard Durr and Christian Roberson to play some next year.

[Coach34]

Yeah, pretty much no one you just named will get drafted.

Richie is listed as a 1st rounder for 2017. He will certainly get drafted. Bennie is a maybe due to size

[Coach34]

Johnson won't play a lot next year. I think Williams will pass him as center and Clayborne will be moved to guard. Also, Simmons is a big need because he's going to be a DT at the next level (similar to Chris Jones). He would plug a hole immediately. Also, look for Erroll to play some DE next year. He's good enough to jump right in the mix. I also think we move Green to DE some (but he'll mostly play LB). Look for Leo Lewis, Fletcher Adams, Nick Gibson, Timothy Washington (yes, he's put on about 20 lbs of muscle), Traver Jung (he's going to take Dez's place), Darryl Williams, Deddrick Thomas, Keith Mixon, Kendell Jones (he's better than Brown at DE), Anfernee Mullins, and big ass Michael Story to really step up next year. I'm not quite sold Alec Murphy or Jonnas Spivey quite yet. I also expect Lashard Durr and Christian Roberson to play some next year.

Thats a big stretch. I'm expecting Desper and Calhoun at OG until I see different. I dont see Hev playing Clayborn at Center this year just to move him his Sr year.

[PendingTransaction]

We will win the SEC if Shump can average 132 yds per game; Fitz can average 307 yds passing and 77 rushing, and hold Bama, LSU and UM to no more than 88 yds rushing,respectively.

[CadaverDawg]

Johnson won't play a lot next year. I think Williams will pass him as center and Clayborne will be moved to guard. Also, Simmons is a big need because he's going to be a DT at the next level (similar to Chris Jones). He would plug a hole immediately. Also, look for Erroll to play some DE next year. He's good enough to jump right in the mix. I also think we move Green to DE some (but he'll mostly play LB). Look for Leo Lewis, Fletcher Adams, Nick Gibson, Timothy Washington (yes, he's put on about 20 lbs of muscle), Traver Jung (he's going to take Dez's place), Darryl Williams, Deddrick Thomas, Keith Mixon, Kendell Jones (he's better than Brown at DE), Anfernee Mullins, and big ass Michael Story to really step up next year. I'm not quite sold Alec Murphy or Jonnas Spivey quite yet. I also expect Lashard Durr and Christian Roberson to play some next year.

Forgot about Michael Story, and I keep forgetting Durr. Durr may very well have a chance to play a lot or even start early at CB you would think. Depending on how he adjusts to the SEC speed. I fully expect Cleveland, Jiles, and Graham to be our top 3 CB's in the rotation, until the youngsters get a chance at some point.

[NCDawg]

Richie is listed as a 1st rounder for 2017. He will certainly get drafted. Bennie is a maybe due to size

Bennie's play is sporadic. He misses lots of tackles and is out of position a lot of times.

[defiantdog]

Thats a big stretch. I'm expecting Desper and Calhoun at OG until I see different. I dont see Hev playing Clayborn at Center this year just to move him his Sr year.
Clayborn played center because he had too. Johnson did not develop like the staff hoped. But you're right, when have we made radical changes for the better? Carmen to LT still haunts me.


Forgot about Michael Story, and I keep forgetting Durr. Durr may very well have a chance to play a lot or even start early at CB you would think. Depending on how he adjusts to the SEC speed. I fully expect Cleveland, Jiles, and Graham to be our top 3 CB's in the rotation, until the youngsters get a chance at some point.
I don't see Durr starting because Mullen rarely starts new comers. He'll be in the rotation though..... kind of like Peters was this year at safety.

[defiantdog]

Bennie's play is sporadic. He misses lots of tackles and is out of position a lot of times.

Give B Brown a little slack, he plays nearly every defensive play.

[Coach34]

Give B Brown a little slack, he plays nearly every defensive play.

exactly- we rarely took the Browns off the field. Green didnt play much because he was lost alot- which is very concerning for a 2nd year player.

[SDDawg]

exactly- we rarely took the Browns off the field. Green didnt play much because he was lost alot- which is very concerning for a 2nd year player.

Why don't we move him to DE? He's big enough and athletic enough, seems like he'd fill a need there for us and would limit the reads he has to make.

[I seen it dawg]

Slower than "Checkdown Charlie"? Dang.

Can't get to the check down without making quick decisions.

[defiantdog]

Why don't we move him to DE? He's big enough and athletic enough, seems like he'd fill a need there for us and would limit the reads he has to make.
He lined up as a stand up DE a few times this season

[HoopsDawg]

Why don't we move him to DE? He's big enough and athletic enough, seems like he'd fill a need there for us and would limit the reads he has to make.

Green should absolutely be at DE. He can play LB but he's a natural at WDE.

[I seen it dawg]

We can't get guys on the field until after 2 years in the system. Means juco guys, of which hardly pan out, are non existent and our big recruits we don't see until they are Rsoph. I promise you without injuries we would have never seen Bryant or Peters play. Our "development" program needs to develop so we can develop players a helluva lot faster.