The Croom Effect

[Sacrifice]

I've been talking to a lot of my State friends lately and reading this board and I keep hearing this reoccurring theme come up "We don't want to go back to the Croom days" or "I remember what it was like before Mullen" Honestly to me this is a chicken sh*t way of thinking. There's no doubt that hiring Croom blew up in our face but it seems to be having lingering effects. We are 7 years in and we have finish higher than 4th place in the west 1 time!! Let me repeat that, we have finished higher than 4th place in the WEST 1 time in SEVEN YEARS!!!. Mullen is 13-26 against west teams. We routinely come in near the bottom in recruiting every year. Not freaking good enough!. I mean how long does it take to turn a program around? I've watched Larry Fedora turn 2 programs completely around in 8 years. So now I'm supposed to believe we're gonna be in a rebuilding year?
For me, the honeymoon is over with Mullen. 8 years in, we should be seeing some results. Winning our non conference games and beating 2 down West teams every year is not good enough anymore, Especially for what we're paying. I want us to take the next step.

[Really Clark?]

Sorry. We still have a hangover from Todd's post from yesterday and are dealing with the fallout in the media. Maybe yall need to have a team meeting and put all of these in one post. Try again at a later date.***

[Sacrifice]

Nice response*** maybe you should get some sleep and try again at a later date**

[Really Clark?]

Nice response*** maybe you should get some sleep and try again at a later date**

Hold on...talking with legal now about our official statement...yeah sorry we can't comment on these allegations while working on a similar pending situation.***

[Sacrifice]

Hold on...talking with legal now about our official statement...yeah sorry we can't comment on these allegations while working on a similar pending situation.***

Haha that's better, look my point in this thread is that a lot of our fans seem to be worried about moving on because of the years we went through with Croom. I've literally heard this 20 times in 4 days.

[scottycameron]

I've been talking to a lot of my State friends lately and reading this board and I keep hearing this reoccurring theme come up "We don't want to go back to the Croom days" or "I remember what it was like before Mullen" Honestly to me this is a chicken sh*t way of thinking. There's no doubt that hiring Croom blew up in our face but it seems to be having lingering effects. We are 7 years in and we have finish higher than 4th place in the west 1 time!! Let me repeat that, we have finished higher than 4th place in the WEST 1 time in SEVEN YEARS!!!. Mullen is 13-26 against west teams. We routinely come in near the bottom in recruiting every year. Not freaking good enough!. I mean how long does it take to turn a program around? I've watched Larry Fedora turn 2 programs completely around in 8 years. So now I'm supposed to believe we're gonna be in a rebuilding year?
For me, the honeymoon is over with Mullen. 8 years in, we should be seeing some results. Winning our non conference games and beating 2 down West teams every year is not good enough anymore, Especially for what we're paying. I want us to take the next step.

you should have seen the 3 years before crooms.

[maroonmania]

Haha that's better, look my point in this thread is that a lot of our fans seem to be worried about moving on because of the years we went through with Croom. I've literally heard this 20 times in 4 days.

Look, FORGET CROOM! Take him out of the equation. We've averaged 9 wins the last 2 seasons. You want Mullen fired? On what basis, because he keeps his name in other job searches? I mean I don't like the way this season ended and Mullen chaps me with his job searching in the media but we would look like fools if we let him go especially given our weak history. Both he and us are stuck with each other for the moment. We have no real reason to get rid of him and he has pretty much priced himself out of any school that would want him based on accomplishments he has achieved here. He would probably need > 4.5 million to change jobs and only the elite schools pay that. Elite schools would like to see a few more actual wins over Top 20 teams to have real interest in him.

[Maroonthirteen]

What Mania said. It isn't so much about what happened immediately prior to Mullen's arrival. As much as it is about appreciating what you have. 6 straight winning seasons is unprecedented at MSU. We just can't afford to toss that out on what MIGHT happen in the future. Because we have no way of knowing who would take the job after Mullen.

We could be in Memphis' situation. Being told by our 1st target that we are their 2nd or 3rd option and settling for Manny Diaz or Hevsey as the next HC.

[Sacrifice]

Look, FORGET CROOM! Take him out of the equation. We've averaged 9 wins the last 2 seasons. You want Mullen fired? On what basis, because he keeps his name in other job searches? I mean I don't like the way this season ended and Mullen chaps me with his job searching in the media but we would look like fools if we let him go especially given our weak history. Both he and us are stuck with each other for the moment. We have no real reason to get rid of him and he has pretty much priced himself out of any school that would want him based on accomplishments he has achieved here. He would probably need > 4.5 million to change jobs and only the elite schools pay that. Elite schools would like to see a few more actual wins over Top 20 teams to have real interest in him.
What I want from Mullen or any coach we have is to compete for an SEC championship. I want to finish better than 4th in our division more than once in 7 years. I want to beat Bama, I want to beat LSU, I want to beat A&M especially when there having down years. I want these wins to pay off in recruiting. I want Mullen to succeed but I'm not gonna stick my head in the sand and say it's ok to finish fourth in the west every year because we win 8 games.

[Maroonthirteen]

Ok, Mullen just took the Eastern State University Timberwolves job.

Who are you hiring to accomplish all those things you listed?

[Really Clark?]

Ok, Mullen just took the Eastern State University Timberwolves job.

Who are you hiring to accomplish all those things you listed?

I don't know who we get but I'm picking Joe Kane as next years Heisman. Mullen working with that caliber of a QB, with a great young RB in Jefferson, that will be an explosive offense. Maybe a dark horse for the playoffs in the first year. If Mack can stay healthy and keep Lattimer sane. A lot of talent on that team.***

[Sacrifice]

Ok, Mullen just took the Eastern State University Timberwolves job.

Who are you hiring to accomplish all those things you listed?

Ok let me ask you this. If Mullen continues on his current path of winning 8 games and coming in 4th in the west or lower, how long are you gonna give him? Or Is that just gonna be good enough for you?

[Coach34]

Gonna be a great year on the message boards. Fighting for 6 wins in 2016 will equate to a lot of traffic and Mullen won't have to worry about his name being associated with any jobs.

[MadDawg]

I want to beat Bama, I want to beat LSU

Hell who doesn't want to be playing for a national championship?

[Really Clark?]

Heard from a trusted source that Mullen is going to make the back-up QB at ESU transfer. Heard that Bobby Collins, the QB, is a real douche and possible scandal involving him and a staffers daughter. Freeze has already contacted him and offered to help him recover from his sins. I'll pass along what I know but looks like they are about to get another douche transfer.***

[War Machine Dawg]

Look, FORGET CROOM! Take him out of the equation. We've averaged 9 wins the last 2 seasons. You want Mullen fired? On what basis, because he keeps his name in other job searches? I mean I don't like the way this season ended and Mullen chaps me with his job searching in the media but we would look like fools if we let him go especially given our weak history. Both he and us are stuck with each other for the moment. We have no real reason to get rid of him and he has pretty much priced himself out of any school that would want him based on accomplishments he has achieved here. He would probably need > 4.5 million to change jobs and only the elite schools pay that. Elite schools would like to see a few more actual wins over Top 20 teams to have real interest in him.

Once aGAIN, who is suggesting Mullen be fired, outside of the lunatics like Todd? I think most are saying if he wants to go, then he needs to go on his own. But unfortunately, as you point out, there aren't too many places where Mullen thinks 1) the grass is greener and 2) he'll be paid what he thinks he's worth. He can get one or the other right now, but not both. Thus, we'll be right back here having this same discussion in 12 months after Mullen and his agent have once aGAIN leaked his name to every major open job through the media. He needs to suck it up, eat a little humble pie, stop playing the media game, and work his ass off to win some big games. That's the only way he's going to buy back the good will he's squandered.

[Sacrifice]

Hell who doesn't want to be playing for a national championship?

So is it unreasonable to want that? Or are we just poor ole MSU and this is just the best we can do.

[Jack Lambert]

I've been talking to a lot of my State friends lately and reading this board and I keep hearing this reoccurring theme come up "We don't want to go back to the Croom days" or "I remember what it was like before Mullen" Honestly to me this is a chicken sh*t way of thinking. There's no doubt that hiring Croom blew up in our face but it seems to be having lingering effects. We are 7 years in and we have finish higher than 4th place in the west 1 time!! Let me repeat that, we have finished higher than 4th place in the WEST 1 time in SEVEN YEARS!!!. Mullen is 13-26 against west teams. We routinely come in near the bottom in recruiting every year. Not freaking good enough!. I mean how long does it take to turn a program around? I've watched Larry Fedora turn 2 programs completely around in 8 years. So now I'm supposed to believe we're gonna be in a rebuilding year?
For me, the honeymoon is over with Mullen. 8 years in, we should be seeing some results. Winning our non conference games and beating 2 down West teams every year is not good enough anymore, Especially for what we're paying. I want us to take the next step.

I'm sorry did you day something.

[Todd4State]

Once aGAIN, who is suggesting Mullen be fired, outside of the lunatics like Todd? I think most are saying if he wants to go, then he needs to go on his own. But unfortunately, as you point out, there aren't too many places where Mullen thinks 1) the grass is greener and 2) he'll be paid what he thinks he's worth. He can get one or the other right now, but not both. Thus, we'll be right back here having this same discussion in 12 months after Mullen and his agent have once aGAIN leaked his name to every major open job through the media. He needs to suck it up, eat a little humble pie, stop playing the media game, and work his ass off to win some big games. That's the only way he's going to buy back the good will he's squandered.

I never said Dan should be fired now. I said he should leave now on his own accord because if he doesn't he will get fired eventually if he doesn't and we will have to suffer through rebuilding in the process.

[Sacrifice]

No I didn't, go back to sleep.

[Todd4State]

Gonna be a great year on the message boards. Fighting for 6 wins in 2016 will equate to a lot of traffic and Mullen won't have to worry about his name being associated with any jobs.

$$$$$$$

[Jack Lambert]

No I didn't, go back to sleep.

Just joking with you!

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Or are we just poor ole MSU and this is just the best we can do.

Yes

[Sacrifice]

Just joking with you!
I know man, I'm just ribbing you back. It's all in good fun.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's not just Croom. It's our entire history. Mullen is the best coach since Allyn McKeen. That was in the 1940s. Jackie is the only other one that can even be mentioned in the same breath and he wound up at exactly .500. If run Mullen off then it would set the program back at least as much as running McKeen off did. Just for reference that was 70 years ago and we STILL haven't got back to where he had us.

[Really Clark?]

I never said Dan should be fired now. I said he should leave now on his own accord because if he doesn't he will get fired eventually if he doesn't and we will have to suffer through rebuilding in the process.

I'm quoting you here because this is causing me to think of something. Maybe yall can help out. I'm trying to think of the schools who have gone on a pretty long runs without having to fire or force retire a coach at some point. I'm not talking unsuccessful programs that's obvious but successful ones. And not 1 coach who has been at a school a long time. Those results speak for themselves. Successful runs with multiple coaches. Oregon has had a great run plugging in the next guy. LSU Saban to Miles but that seems to be ending sooner rather than later. OK State Miles to Gundy. Staying in the Power 5. But I can't think of many that have kept their previous success with the next guy very often.

You mention having to fire Mullen and start over. I don't think we would have to rebuild like what Mullen had to do when he got here. I don't think anyone can argue that. Just make sure the next hire is right. That's the tricky part. And what I'm trying to think of with the above. It's either you keep a coach a long time if they are being successful above your historic norms or they leave and you transition the next guy in who builds on what the previous guy has done. And in recent times that has been few and far between, that I can recall.

[Sacrifice]

All I want from Mullen is for him to do his damn job. I want him to meet the goals that HE has set for OUR program. All I'm saying is I'm sick of finishing in the middle to bottom of the west in year 7. I don't think this would be acceptable to Bama, LSU, OM, Auburn or A&M. It shouldn't be acceptable to us. I'm just saying, if he was to leave, I'm not concerned one bit about going back to the Croom days like I've been hearing so much. We are a very different program now. We have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into our football program and I wanna see results, that's all.

[Maroonthirteen]

Ok let me ask you this. If Mullen continues on his current path of winning 8 games and coming in 4th in the west or lower, how long are you gonna give him? Or Is that just gonna be good enough for you?

If I was AD at MSU, he would have as long as he wanted if he averaged 8 wins and beat OM half the time. Recalling that, in my 35 years of following MSU, I can tell you off the top of my head we won 8 or more games 11 times and the current coach is responsible for 4 of those. We have never had 6 winnings seasons in a row. Yes, it is good enough for me.

However, I wish we could do more. For one, he better recruit OL. Our RB situation was ridiculous......if he doesn't correct those positions...it takes care of itself. BUt this year, I just don't think we could have replaced Mullen with someone with his experience or better. We would have been picking behind USC and maybe Missouri. Think about the coaches out there now......that we could realistically get (I don't believe Fedora would pick us over UNC and USC...sorry, he turned down UTenn a few years ago)......I rather have Mullen.

[Beaver]

I've been talking to a lot of my State friends lately and reading this board and I keep hearing this reoccurring theme come up "We don't want to go back to the Croom days" or "I remember what it was like before Mullen" Honestly to me this is a chicken sh*t way of thinking. There's no doubt that hiring Croom blew up in our face but it seems to be having lingering effects. We are 7 years in and we have finish higher than 4th place in the west 1 time!! Let me repeat that, we have finished higher than 4th place in the WEST 1 time in SEVEN YEARS!!!. Mullen is 13-26 against west teams. We routinely come in near the bottom in recruiting every year. Not freaking good enough!. I mean how long does it take to turn a program around? I've watched Larry Fedora turn 2 programs completely around in 8 years. So now I'm supposed to believe we're gonna be in a rebuilding year?
For me, the honeymoon is over with Mullen. 8 years in, we should be seeing some results. Winning our non conference games and beating 2 down West teams every year is not good enough anymore, Especially for what we're paying. I want us to take the next step.

We went from getting shut out in the Egg Bowl in 2008, to beating the crap out of Michigan in 2010. That's quite a turnaround IMO. You also say you want to see "some results." Did you miss last year? Or the development of Dak Prescott?

Fedora has had the benefit of being in a crappy ACC division. Go look at their schedule from this year. Impressive, but there's a solid chance MSU is undefeated with that schedule. One of the big reasons people like to ignore around this time of year is that MSU is lacking quite a bit in the financial department. Yes, compared to the other conferences the SEC gets tons of dollars. However, compared to the SEC West, MSU is basically living in the lower middle-class. Money talks. I totally agree we need to take the next step and recruit better. But for me this is more of an MSU issue than a Mullen issue. When has MSU ever (in modern football) consistently finished near the tops in recruiting or in the SEC West standings? You say its not freaking good enough? We have new facilities, a nice renovated stadium, with our athletic department in great shape and high university attendance numbers. Did those things magically happen without help from Mullen?

[djaymsu5]

All I want from Mullen is for him to do his damn job. I want him to meet the goals that HE has set for OUR program. All I'm saying is I'm sick of finishing in the middle to bottom of the west in year 7. I don't think this would be acceptable to Bama, LSU, OM, Auburn or A&M. It shouldn't be acceptable to us. I'm just saying, if he was to leave, I'm not concerned one bit about going back to the Croom days like I've been hearing so much. We are a very different program now. We have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into our football program and I wanna see results, that's all.

This is how I've felt for a while now. Can't speak your mind cause everyone jumps on you about Mullen is the best coach we have ever had. Woopdy damn doo. He still hasn't got us to the sec title game better yet we haven't won the west and we just had the best QB in history that couldn't do it for us. We have the money now to make a great hire for our football program. This is an attractive job and I'd be willing to bet we could get Tom Herman away from Houston if Mullen would leave. Mullen is never going to change people idk why y'all don't understand that. He will always make the same mistakes in the big games and choke. His play calling is so predictable it's not funny and clock management has cost us several games. He's a stubborn ass Yankee that isn't going to look himself in the mirror and say I screwed up its my fault. He won't do that. Y'all can keep waiting around for it to happen but it won't. There are other coaches out there like Fedora or Herman that I truly believe had they had the team we had last year would have won the west if not further. Just leave Mullen! Thanks for all that you have done but it's time to part ways. 8 years is long enough.

[Beaver]

All I want from Mullen is for him to do his damn job. I want him to meet the goals that HE has set for OUR program. All I'm saying is I'm sick of finishing in the middle to bottom of the west in year 7. I don't think this would be acceptable to Bama, LSU, OM, Auburn or A&M. It shouldn't be acceptable to us. I'm just saying, if he was to leave, I'm not concerned one bit about going back to the Croom days like I've been hearing so much. We are a very different program now. We have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into our football program and I wanna see results, that's all.

Bama, LSU, and AU actually have history. They have actually won SEC and National Championships. Of course it wouldn't be acceptable for them. Their budgets are also 2x the size of ours. They pour many more MILLIONS into their football programs than we do.

[djaymsu5]

Bama, LSU, and AU actually have history. They have actually won SEC and National Championships. Of course it wouldn't be acceptable for them. Their budgets are also 2x the size of ours. They pour many more MILLIONS into their football programs than we do.

To me that's a Bs excuse! All of those programs had to start somewhere. Every one of them!

[Sacrifice]

We went from getting shut out in the Egg Bowl in 2008, to beating the crap out of Michigan in 2010. That's quite a turnaround IMO. You also say you want to see "some results." Did you miss last year? Or the development of Dak Prescott?

Fedora has had the benefit of being in a crappy ACC division. Go look at their schedule from this year. Impressive, but there's a solid chance MSU is undefeated with that schedule. One of the big reasons people like to ignore around this time of year is that MSU is lacking quite a bit in the financial department. Yes, compared to the other conferences the SEC gets tons of dollars. However, compared to the SEC West, MSU is basically living in the lower middle-class. Money talks. I totally agree we need to take the next step and recruit better. But for me this is more of an MSU issue than a Mullen issue. When has MSU ever (in modern football) consistently finished near the tops in recruiting or in the SEC West standings? You say its not freaking good enough? We have new facilities, a nice renovated stadium, with our athletic department in great shape and high university attendance numbers. Did those things magically happen without help from Mullen?

Yes, last year was wonderful, I actually thought we were gonna build off that. Did you miss us losing to Bama, OM, LSU and A&M this year? No way we should've lost to LSU and A&M. Hell I guess I'm expecting to much.

[Really Clark?]

This is how I've felt for a while now. Can't speak your mind cause everyone jumps on you about Mullen is the best coach we have ever had. Woopdy damn doo. He still hasn't got us to the sec title game better yet we haven't won the west and we just had the best QB in history that couldn't do it for us. We have the money now to make a great hire for our football program. This is an attractive job and I'd be willing to bet we could get Tom Herman away from Houston if Mullen would leave. Mullen is never going to change people idk why y'all don't understand that. He will always make the same mistakes in the big games and choke. His play calling is so predictable it's not funny and clock management has cost us several games. He's a stubborn ass Yankee that isn't going to look himself in the mirror and say I screwed up its my fault. He won't do that. Y'all can keep waiting around for it to happen but it won't. There are other coaches out there like Fedora or Herman that I truly believe had they had the team we had last year would have won the west if not further. Just leave Mullen! Thanks for all that you have done but it's time to part ways. 8 years is long enough.

We wouldn't get Herman. He didn't talk to Georgia and got a pay raise to stay and wait to try for Texas. Our offense was the 5th best in the SEC's history last year. In the history. RB needs to be fixed and we still were 6th in the league this year vs conference teams. 8 point difference from the #1 team. And at least know he has been here 7 years. Jackie went to Atlanta with an 8-3 team (finished 8-5) after 8 years. We should have fired him before then as well by your standards.

[NCDawg]

All I want from Mullen is for him to do his damn job. I want him to meet the goals that HE has set for OUR program. All I'm saying is I'm sick of finishing in the middle to bottom of the west in year 7. I don't think this would be acceptable to Bama, LSU, OM, Auburn or A&M. It shouldn't be acceptable to us. I'm just saying, if he was to leave, I'm not concerned one bit about going back to the Croom days like I've been hearing so much. We are a very different program now. We have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into our football program and I wanna see results, that's all.

I don't think that is an unreasonable request. Problem is he won't do what's necessary to win and that is:
1. Recruit better athletes, especially on the OL and DB's
2. Get a better OL coach

[Todd4State]

I'm quoting you here because this is causing me to think of something. Maybe yall can help out. I'm trying to think of the schools who have gone on a pretty long runs without having to fire or force retire a coach at some point. I'm not talking unsuccessful programs that's obvious but successful ones. And not 1 coach who has been at a school a long time. Those results speak for themselves. Successful runs with multiple coaches. Oregon has had a great run plugging in the next guy. LSU Saban to Miles but that seems to be ending sooner rather than later. OK State Miles to Gundy. Staying in the Power 5. But I can't think of many that have kept their previous success with the next guy very often.

You mention having to fire Mullen and start over. I don't think we would have to rebuild like what Mullen had to do when he got here. I don't think anyone can argue that. Just make sure the next hire is right. That's the tricky part. And what I'm trying to think of with the above. It's either you keep a coach a long time if they are being successful above your historic norms or they leave and you transition the next guy in who builds on what the previous guy has done. And in recent times that has been few and far between, that I can recall.

It depends on the state of our program when that time comes. Historically, MSU waits too long in most sports. If we go 5-7 next year, do we give Dan another year? I say it depends on how things go. You always have to look at the entire body of work.

All of those situations you mentioned- the scenario was the same. The previous coach was HIRED away- and the transition was a lot easier simply because those programs didn't have an opportunity to decline. Thus, there was no rebuilding or very little. THAT was the point of my other post- and why I said Dan leaving now ON HIS OWN ACCORD would be the best thing for all of us. Because from my point of view I don't see him getting better. Others apparently disagree- and that's fine.

Hiring coaches is not fool proof. The good news about that is we aren't married to a coach either- we can always fire coaches as we need to. And honestly, that's not always the worst thing in the world. Every successful program in America has had unsuccessful coaches during their history at some point in time. Alabama is still Alabama despite having Mike Price as a coach. Notre Dame is still Notre Dame despite having Gerry Faust as a coach. And no it's certainly not ideal to have a bad coach either. You always want to make a good hire. But it's not the end of the world if you don't.

To me, it's much more productive to be proactive and try to make move ahead of the curve rather than be overly cautious and hope it just all somehow works out or that something will change somewhere along the line. And with what we have now as a program- fan base, facilities, and what we can offer in salary- I think there is a VERY good chance that we can make a very good hire.

[Really Clark?]

To me that's a Bs excuse! All of those programs had to start somewhere. Every one of them!

What? Yeah they were starting and building during our 70 years in the wilderness. You don't overcome that inside of a decade while they are on historic runs at the same time.

ETA. If you disagree, name one who has overcome power schools inside of a decade.

[Beaver]

Alabama, Florida, Florida, Florida, Florida, Tennessee, Tennessee, Florida, Florida, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Alabama, (Soon-to-be Alabama). Those are the teams that have WON the SEC title since 1992. All big $$$ programs. Yes, I'm making excuses, but clearly its a legitimate one.

[Really Clark?]

It depends on the state of our program when that time comes. Historically, MSU waits too long in most sports. If we go 5-7 next year, do we give Dan another year? I say it depends on how things go. You always have to look at the entire body of work.

All of those situations you mentioned- the scenario was the same. The previous coach was HIRED away- and the transition was a lot easier simply because those programs didn't have an opportunity to decline. Thus, there was no rebuilding or very little. THAT was the point of my other post- and why I said Dan leaving now ON HIS OWN ACCORD would be the best thing for all of us. Because from my point of view I don't see him getting better. Others apparently disagree- and that's fine.

Hiring coaches is not fool proof. The good news about that is we aren't married to a coach either- we can always fire coaches as we need to. And honestly, that's not always the worst thing in the world. Every successful program in America has had unsuccessful coaches during their history at some point in time. Alabama is still Alabama despite having Mike Price as a coach. Notre Dame is still Notre Dame despite having Gerry Faust as a coach. And no it's certainly not ideal to have a bad coach either. You always want to make a good hire. But it's not the end of the world if you don't.

To me, it's much more productive to be proactive and try to make move ahead of the curve rather than be overly cautious and hope it just all somehow works out or that something will change somewhere along the line. And with what we have now as a program- fan base, facilities, and what we can offer in salary- I think there is a VERY good chance that we can make a very good hire.

I understand all of that. My point was whether hired away or fired very very few teams have kept their previous coaches success when they have been above that schools norm. That's why I asked of other examples. I can't think of any.

[MadDawg]

We went from getting shut out in the Egg Bowl in 2008, to beating the crap out of Michigan in 2010. That's quite a turnaround IMO. You also say you want to see "some results." Did you miss last year? Or the development of Dak Prescott?

Fedora has had the benefit of being in a crappy ACC division. Go look at their schedule from this year. Impressive, but there's a solid chance MSU is undefeated with that schedule. One of the big reasons people like to ignore around this time of year is that MSU is lacking quite a bit in the financial department. Yes, compared to the other conferences the SEC gets tons of dollars. However, compared to the SEC West, MSU is basically living in the lower middle-class. Money talks. I totally agree we need to take the next step and recruit better. But for me this is more of an MSU issue than a Mullen issue. When has MSU ever (in modern football) consistently finished near the tops in recruiting or in the SEC West standings? You say its not freaking good enough? We have new facilities, a nice renovated stadium, with our athletic department in great shape and high university attendance numbers. Did those things magically happen without help from Mullen?

Good post.

[MadDawg]

Did you miss us losing to Bama, OM, LSU and A&M this year? No way we should've lost to LSU and A&M. Hell I guess I'm expecting to much.

Maybe.

All the "experts" had us finishing in last place in the West. Apparently you thought we should have finished in first place. Is it really that inconceivable to lose the LSU? Really? I'll give you the A&M loss was bad, and we shouldn't have lost. But teams do lose games they have no business losing, even teams with better coaches and better players - even at home. Did you happen to see the Bama/om game this year?

[Johnson85]

All I want from Mullen is for him to do his damn job. I want him to meet the goals that HE has set for OUR program. All I'm saying is I'm sick of finishing in the middle to bottom of the west in year 7. I don't think this would be acceptable to Bama, LSU, OM, Auburn or A&M. It shouldn't be acceptable to us. I'm just saying, if he was to leave, I'm not concerned one bit about going back to the Croom days like I've been hearing so much. We are a very different program now. We have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into our football program and I wanna see results, that's all.

We have seen results. IN seven years, the teams we have lost to that haven't also dumped millions of dollars into their football programs are Houston (Mullen's first year), Northwestern (2012), and Ga Tech (Mullen's first year and last year, although I'm not sure they haven't also dumped millions into football also). We are only struggling against teams that have more money than us and more tradition, and if you ignore the first three years of Mullen's tenure we have struggled some with UM.

[Johnson85]

So is it unreasonable to want that? Or are we just poor ole MSU and this is just the best we can do.

It is not unreasonable to want that, it is unreasonable to think that not winning a west championship or national championship (which have practically been the same thing during Mullen's tenure) in seven years means a coach should be fired so you can try another option. Mullen is probably not going to win a national championship, but consistently having winning records is a good way to start building the program.

[Todd4State]

I understand all of that. My point was whether hired away or fired very very few teams have kept their previous coaches success when they have been above that schools norm. That's why I asked of other examples. I can't think of any.

I think more than likely that's a product of the cycle of life in football programs. Coach A has success- but then tails off after awhile and then gets fired or leaves. Coach B replaces him- but the school may have a hard time finding a replacement because Coach A hasn't left the program in the best shape and Coach B is expected to win at a similar or better rate. So, because Coach B has to rebuild, fans get impatient and then bring in Coach C who reaps the benefits of the rebuild and takes the team to success as good or better than Coach A.

[BB30]

There is not a coach in America that would beat Bama and LSU consistently. Outside of OM having a fluke year this year and beating bama two years in a row, tell me another team that has beaten either of those teams two years in a row or fairly consistently. And if anyone thinks Fedora is the answer that is insane. He would get eaten alive in the SEC. There is not a coach out there that will take the State job right now that would do much better if any better than Mullen. We just need to keep winning and start to build a winning tradition. Programs aren't built in 5-6 years it takes time. Yes, an upset here and there would be nice and it will happen at some point. Bama will not be on top forever and LSU is starting to lose some of there dominance as well. Auburn looks to be down and A and M hasn't done much outside of the JFF years. You don't see the aggies calling for Sumlin's head like some of our fans are doing and there is no reason A and M shouldn't be competing with bama every year and taking LSU's spot as number 2 with the resources they have. Patience would be a very good thing for some of yall. Since 1950 we have had ten 8+ win seasons. 4 of those have come in the Mullen era.

[ClawjoDawg]

I've been talking to a lot of my State friends lately and reading this board and I keep hearing this reoccurring theme come up "We don't want to go back to the Croom days" or "I remember what it was like before Mullen" Honestly to me this is a chicken sh*t way of thinking. There's no doubt that hiring Croom blew up in our face but it seems to be having lingering effects. We are 7 years in and we have finish higher than 4th place in the west 1 time!! Let me repeat that, we have finished higher than 4th place in the WEST 1 time in SEVEN YEARS!!!. Mullen is 13-26 against west teams. We routinely come in near the bottom in recruiting every year. Not freaking good enough!. I mean how long does it take to turn a program around? I've watched Larry Fedora turn 2 programs completely around in 8 years. So now I'm supposed to believe we're gonna be in a rebuilding year?
For me, the honeymoon is over with Mullen. 8 years in, we should be seeing some results. Winning our non conference games and beating 2 down West teams every year is not good enough anymore, Especially for what we're paying. I want us to take the next step.

Dan is the best coach we've ever had. Cut your State friends some slack.

[tcdog70]

My first game at State was 1961. I have suffered through many shitty years, with many shitty Coaches. I can remember hoping would could win one ****ing SEC game. We had a couple good years with Tyler, Emory and Jackie. But Dan has created a Monster, 6 straight years to a Bowl in the baddest ass Division in NCAA football History. He took Us to the #1 ranked team in the Nation.But we have fans that think we should just Beat Bama, LSU, and Auburn every other Year. I went from 1961 till 1980 attending every Bama game just hoping and Praying one day I would see us whip the Big Red Elephants ass, I did and it tasted great. i think Dan could do lot's of things better, his play calling drives me up the wall. But 98% of the teams playing football can't beat LSU-Bama or Auburn. Most teams Can't beat Ole Miss, Arkansas, A&m or Us. If a SEC west loses chances are another SEC west team did the whipping. I would say i can live with 8-10 wins every year.

Fedora, come on he beats teams that any SEC West team would chew up and spit out. Any football team that can have a 4-4 record and reside the SEc WEST is a bad M'fer.

[Todd4State]

My first game at State was 1961. I have suffered through many shitty years, with many shitty Coaches. I can remember hoping would could win one ****ing SEC game. We had a couple good years with Tyler, Emory and Jackie. But Dan has created a Monster, 6 straight years to a Bowl in the baddest ass Division in NCAA football History. He took Us to the #1 ranked team in the Nation.But we have fans that think we should just Beat Bama, LSU, and Auburn every other Year. I went from 1961 till 1980 attending every Bama game just hoping and Praying one day I would see us whip the Big Red Elephants ass, I did and it tasted great. i think Dan could do lot's of things better, his play calling drives me up the wall. But 98% of the teams playing football can't beat LSU-Bama or Auburn. Most teams Can't beat Ole Miss, Arkansas, A&m or Us. If a SEC west loses chances are another SEC west team did the whipping. I would say i can live with 8-10 wins every year.

Fedora, come on he beats teams that any SEC West team would chew up and spit out. Any football team that can have a 4-4 record and reside the SEc WEST is a bad M'fer.

This isn't 1961 though. The expectations should be and are different now. I don't think anyone has ever said that we should beat Alabama, Auburn, LSU, every other year- but I do think it's very reasonable to expect that we can beat a 9-10 win team at least once every other year regardless of who that is. We're talking about history and Jackie showed that we could indeed do that.

[Beaver]

It is not unreasonable to want that, it is unreasonable to think that not winning a west championship or national championship (which have practically been the same thing during Mullen's tenure) in seven years means a coach should be fired so you can try another option. Mullen is probably not going to win a national championship, but consistently having winning records is a good way to start building the program.

My thoughts exactly. I don't mean to say that since we are lacking in $$$ we might as well give up our goals and dreams.. It's happened before (Colorado, Ga Tech etc..) But in order to ever have a shot at competing with the big boys we have to make sure this is a place other coaches will want to come when Mullen eventually leaves for whatever reason. A coach at Mississippi State shouldn't have to worry about fans wanting him to leave after going 10-2 and 8-4.

[Really Clark?]

I think more than likely that's a product of the cycle of life in football programs. Coach A has success- but then tails off after awhile and then gets fired or leaves. Coach B replaces him- but the school may have a hard time finding a replacement because Coach A hasn't left the program in the best shape and Coach B is expected to win at a similar or better rate. So, because Coach B has to rebuild, fans get impatient and then bring in Coach C who reaps the benefits of the rebuild and takes the team to success as good or better than Coach A.

I don't think so. That's why I was asking for specific examples. I just can't think of hardly any that didn't slip back down. No matter who they are or the circumstance of their coach leaving. And teams that were traditional weak or middle tier have it even worse. Elite schools have built in advantages to bounce back quicker. Oregon has been the best about maintaining and actually increasing their levels from Brooks to Bellotti to Kelly and now Helfrich.

[tcdog70]

This isn't 1961 though. The expectations should be and are different now. I don't think anyone has ever said that we should beat Alabama, Auburn, LSU, every other year- but I do think it's very reasonable to expect that we can beat a 9-10 win team at least once every other year regardless of who that is. We're talking about history and Jackie showed that we could indeed do that.

I guess I sorta figured you would miss my point. I know it is not 1961 anymore. But guess what Bama, LSU and Auburn were bad M'fer in 1961 . Some shit stays the same. What I'm saying is -sure the KANG beat some ten win teams but he lost to Troy, Northeast La, and memphis States of the football World. he never sniffed #1 in the nation. he never took us to 6 straight bowls. We have never had the talent that we have today at QB and WRs. If Dan will just "CLEAN UP" our OL situation we will win 8-10 next year. Please you ****ers take a breath.

[Todd4State]

I don't think so. That's why I was asking for specific examples. I just can't think of hardly any that didn't slip back down. No matter who they are or the circumstance of their coach leaving. And teams that were traditional weak or middle tier have it even worse. Elite schools have built in advantages to bounce back quicker. Oregon has been the best about maintaining and actually increasing their levels from Brooks to Bellotti to Kelly and now Helfrich.

Spurrier when he went to South Carolina, Dabo Swinney at Clemson.

I guess it depends on whether you think MSU is an elite school or not. We certainly pay like we are at the very least. Historically, we haven't been elite. But neither was Oregon in 1990 either. I've always thought that MSU has a lot of potential in terms of resources- more than we maybe realize or want to believe. In 1988 we set some attendance records at the time during a season where we won one game- and now we sell out regularly. You look at what has been built here in terms of facilities and what we are willing to pay a top 20 salary- close to top 15. I go watch the team on the road a good bit- and we almost always have a great crowd on the road. No matter where it is. Our facilities are top notch. We are in a great area as far as recruiting. There is a LOT here that any competent coach could work with and have a good degree of success.

[Todd4State]

I guess I sorta figured you would miss my point. I know it is not 1961 anymore. But guess what Bama, LSU and Auburn were bad M'fer in 1961 . Some shit stays the same. What I'm saying is -sure the KANG beat some ten win teams but he lost to Troy, Northeast La, and memphis States of the football World. he never sniffed #1 in the nation. he never took us to 6 straight bowls. We have never had the talent that we have today at QB and WRs. If Dan will just "CLEAN UP" our OL situation we will win 8-10 next year. Please you ****ers take a breath.

And yet we have changed since 1961, so why even bring it up? Yes- Jackie lost some head scratchers and that was not excusable. But by winning against really good teams he also showed our potential to do so. And did so with lesser talent than we have now.

[Really Clark?]

Yes. Dabo. That's good. He was a good transition and upgraded over Bowden after firing him. However Bowden was just barely over their historic avg at Clemson and was there 10 years. Holtz to Spurrier wasn't a great transition. Holtz had 3 winning seasons out of 6 and his win percentage was below their historic avg. He did get them to their first 9 win season in 17 years. But two losing and one 6-5 season after that. And Spurrier won 55 games his first 7 years at So Car. Dan sits at 54 right now. Their historic win totals was close to ours so that is a great comparison between Spurrier's first 7 years and Dan's. Obviously Spurrier's success was also in an easier division as well.

[maroonmania]

Once aGAIN, who is suggesting Mullen be fired, outside of the lunatics like Todd? I think most are saying if he wants to go, then he needs to go on his own. But unfortunately, as you point out, there aren't too many places where Mullen thinks 1) the grass is greener and 2) he'll be paid what he thinks he's worth. He can get one or the other right now, but not both. Thus, we'll be right back here having this same discussion in 12 months after Mullen and his agent have once aGAIN leaked his name to every major open job through the media. He needs to suck it up, eat a little humble pie, stop playing the media game, and work his ass off to win some big games. That's the only way he's going to buy back the good will he's squandered.

I wasn't responding to "most posters", I was responding to the OP. The only way we move another direction from Mullen, which the OP wants, is to can Dan because he's not going anywhere else for right now. There really is no justification for getting rid of Mullen right now even if he does flirt with too many other job openings.

[maroonmania]

All I want from Mullen is for him to do his damn job. I want him to meet the goals that HE has set for OUR program. All I'm saying is I'm sick of finishing in the middle to bottom of the west in year 7. I don't think this would be acceptable to Bama, LSU, OM, Auburn or A&M. It shouldn't be acceptable to us. I'm just saying, if he was to leave, I'm not concerned one bit about going back to the Croom days like I've been hearing so much. We are a very different program now. We have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into our football program and I wanna see results, that's all.

Well hell's bells, we ALL want Mullen to do a better job. We ALL want to win championships. Heck, I want to win the lottery but can't figure out how to make sure that happens.

[Percho]

I have a question for all. Hypothetical.

Let's say the man says, "I want the challenge as the coach at Mississippi State University." Nick Saban.

How long would it take us to get to Atlanta? And of course a trip to Atlanta is almost a given to play for a NC.