Tony Hughes vs Hev

[BeastMan]

I have a question for this board and I'd like to see some reasonable answers. I think its safe to say that most MSU fans are not satisfied with the OL recruiting or product on the field and wants a change. It's safe to say that most want Hev gone. When you look at Mullen's tenure the 2 positions groups that have cost us the most are Safety and OL without question. While everyone beats the fire Hev drum you never hear anyone with anything negative to say about Hughes.

The first thing I want to look at is the play on the field. The best MSU has been at safety under Mullen was 2010-11 when the starters were Nickoe Whitley and Charles Mitchell. Neither player was recruited by Hughes.
-2012 it was Nickoe and a mixture of Dee Arrington, Jay Hughes, and Louis Watson.
-2013 it was Nickoe and Jay Hughes almost exclusively.
-2014 it was Kendrick Market and Jay Hughes with Deontay Evans some.
-This year it was Brandon Bryant and Kivon Coman the most.

Looking back on those years, 2010 and 2011 were the best years MSU had at safety and was also the best talent. Pre-achilles Nickoe and Mitchell were borderline NFL guys. Every year since then it's been not even close. Post-injury Nickoe was still good for some huge turnover plays but it was all grit. He was a major liability the rest of the time. Guys like Jay Hughes and Kendrick Market were great team guys but you're not winning anything big in the SEC with them. They weren't SEC talent. Dee Arrington looked like an SEC talent but he never could grasp scheme and got hurt. Evans has always been dreadful. Most MSU fans think Coman is terrible but I think he's more talented than Hughes, Market, and Evans.

I think you could make a strong argument that MSU has had the worst talent and play at the safety position int he SEC West the last 4 years. All Hughes coaching and guys.

The biggest argument for Hughes over Hev is recruiting. Let's go back to each class and see who we signed as a safety and actually played Safety at MSU.
2010- Jay Hughes
2011- Dee Arrington & Kendrick Market
2012- Quadry Antoine & Deontay Evans & Kivon Coman
2013- nobody (resigned Coman and Brandon Wells never played a snap)
2014- Brandon Bryant
2015- Jamal Peters & Mark McLaurin

From 2010 to 20013, Hughes never signed an SEC guy or not a guy you're going to win in the West with. 2015 he finally got his head out of his ass but it was because MS had a loaded safety board and still lost one to UGA. Also need to factor in the Jamal Peters is already playing the Matt Wells role so I'm not sure how much we see of him at safety. In some of those classes there were guys like Zack Jackson, Justin Cox, and JT Gray who were signed as safeties but played other positions. He doesn't get a break on those guys because you need safeties to win and it's obvious we aren't getting safeties to win. That falls on his evals.

Even this year when we finally got the talent needed at safety, I'm still seeing horrible angle after horrible angle. Missed open field tackle after missed open field tackle. That's coaching and I'm starting to wonder how well MSU is coached at safety.

This is what I'm getting at: at the end of the day, Hughes has recruited the safety position terribly. Arguably worse than Hev has recruited OL. The way MSU is recruiting safety will get you beat and it has. On the field I'm not seeing a great coached unit. I see coordinators so terrified with that position group that they put 2 of them 20 yards deep trying to keep everything in front of them (and they still giving up big plays).

I'm not in this thread saying Hughes should be fired. I think he finally has 2 guys in Bryant and McLaurin he can build on. But by god it can't take 4 years to find 2 decent players. At least with Hev he puts out a good OL every couple years. Hughes has yet to put out an even average safety group made up of his guys unless you call this year good. It's time to start looking at all the coaches under a microscope and looking to improve instead of vomiting "fire Hev". Is anyone else satisfied with the job Hughes is doing at safety? I'm not.

[msstate7]

I don't necessarily think Townsend has done a bad job, but I want to replace him with a secondary coach. Got to keep Hughes, but i want his coaching to a minimum

[BeastMan]

I don't necessarily think Townsend has done a bad job, but I want to replace him with a secondary coach. Got to keep Hughes, but i want his coaching to a minimum

There is no question his value for instate recruiting but his job recruiting the safety position and coaching the safety position is worse than Hev's at OL. I feel like I'm the only state fan pissed about safety every single year.

[PendingTransaction]

That's the common denominator for our atrocious defense, Tony Hughes!

[MSUMatt]

But if Tony Hughes was let go he would be at Ole Miss the next day kicking our ass at recruiting and that is a fact. He is the heartbeat at identifying talent in MS. He is all over the place and is highly HIGHLY thought of by all high school coaches in MS. Letting him go would be slitting your throat giving what MSUs recruiting philosophy is. You lose him you have to change what you do as a staff as far as recruiting is concerned in the state of Mississippi.

[Homedawg]

I have a question for this board and I'd like to see some reasonable answers. I think its safe to say that most MSU fans are not satisfied with the OL recruiting or product on the field and wants a change. It's safe to say that most want Hev gone. When you look at Mullen's tenure the 2 positions groups that have cost us the most are Safety and OL without question. While everyone beats the fire Hev drum you never hear anyone with anything negative to say about Hughes.


The first thing I want to look at is the play on the field. The best MSU has been at safety under Mullen was 2010-11 when the starters were Nickoe Whitley and Charles Mitchell. Neither player was recruited by Hughes.
-2012 it was Nickoe and a mixture of Dee Arrington, Jay Hughes, and Louis Watson.
-2013 it was Nickoe and Jay Hughes almost exclusively.
-2014 it was Kendrick Market and Jay Hughes with Deontay Evans some.
-This year it was Brandon Bryant and Kivon Coman the most.

Looking back on those years, 2010 and 2011 were the best years MSU had at safety and was also the best talent. Pre-achilles Nickoe and Mitchell were borderline NFL guys. Every year since then it's been not even close. Post-injury Nickoe was still good for some huge turnover plays but it was all grit. He was a major liability the rest of the time. Guys like Jay Hughes and Kendrick Market were great team guys but you're not winning anything big in the SEC with them. They weren't SEC talent. Dee Arrington looked like an SEC talent but he never could grasp scheme and got hurt. Evans has always been dreadful. Most MSU fans think Coman is terrible but I think he's more talented than Hughes, Market, and Evans.

I think you could make a strong argument that MSU has had the worst talent and play at the safety position int he SEC West the last 4 years. All Hughes coaching and guys.

The biggest argument for Hughes over Hev is recruiting. Let's go back to each class and see who we signed as a safety and actually played Safety at MSU.
2010- Jay Hughes
2011- Dee Arrington & Kendrick Market
2012- Quadry Antoine & Deontay Evans & Kivon Coman
2013- nobody (resigned Coman and Brandon Wells never played a snap)
2014- Brandon Bryant
2015- Jamal Peters & Mark McLaurin

From 2010 to 20013, Hughes never signed an SEC guy or not a guy you're going to win in the West with. 2015 he finally got his head out of his ass but it was because MS had a loaded safety board and still lost one to UGA. Also need to factor in the Jamal Peters is already playing the Matt Wells role so I'm not sure how much we see of him at safety. In some of those classes there were guys like Zack Jackson, Justin Cox, and JT Gray who were signed as safeties but played other positions. He doesn't get a break on those guys because you need safeties to win and it's obvious we aren't getting safeties to win. That falls on his evals.

Even this year when we finally got the talent needed at safety, I'm still seeing horrible angle after horrible angle. Missed open field tackle after missed open field tackle. That's coaching and I'm starting to wonder how well MSU is coached at safety.

This is what I'm getting at: at the end of the day, Hughes has recruited the safety position terribly. Arguably worse than Hev has recruited OL. The way MSU is recruiting safety will get you beat and it has. On the field I'm not seeing a great coached unit. I see coordinators so terrified with that position group that they put 2 of them 20 yards deep trying to keep everything in front of them (and they still giving up big plays).

I'm not in this thread saying Hughes should be fired. I think he finally has 2 guys in Bryant and McLaurin he can build on. But by god it can't take 4 years to find 2 decent players. At least with Hev he puts out a good OL every couple years. Hughes has yet to put out an even average safety group made up of his guys unless you call this year good. It's time to start looking at all the coaches under a microscope and looking to improve instead of vomiting "fire Hev". Is anyone else satisfied with the job Hughes is doing at safety? I'm not.

Hughes has way more value recruiting THAN just his position. He gets us lots of guys at every position. His value has no dollar!!

[SDDawg]

Hughes should get PROMOTED to recruiting coordinator and get a raise. Give him meeting room access and let him contribute, but 95% of his focus should be on recruiting. This is not a controversial point of view.

BeastMan - your comments are provocative, but on point as usual.

[BeastMan]

That's the common denominator for our atrocious defense, Tony Hughes!

I don't think the defense has been atrocious the last few years but it has been the safety position away from being pretty damn good. The DL and LBs have been SEC West good.

[BeastMan]

Hughes has way more value recruiting just his position. He gets us lots of guys at every position. His value has no dollar!!

I'm not denying that at all. Without him we wouldn't be doing what we're doing in MS but my good safety is killing us.

[PendingTransaction]

I don't think the defense has been atrocious the last few years but it has been the safety position away from being pretty damn good. The DL and LBs have been SEC West good.

So you agree...Tony is the common denominator! Damn costed us the SEC and playoffs

[BrunswickDawg]

Keep in mind that you don't recruit your position necessarily. You may ID talent and grade film, but you are assigned a territory and you follow kids at all positions. Hughes is our MS guy. I am pretty sure Hev is our LA guy - they said flat out on ESPN Saturday that Hev spotted Dak and pulled him in (and I've heard that before). I am not defending either, but more knowledge about who they have recruited is needed in this case.

[Dawgfan77]

I will also add that we missed on a few like you said with the kid at UGA and stamps from hinds but a lot of the guys we signed to play safety got moved to cb. Irvin sills transferred cleveland to cb. So it's been some swing and misses. Also some of the staff thought we had a legit shot at Conner in 13.

[gtowndawg]

Hughes should get PROMOTED to recruiting coordinator and get a raise. Give him meeting room access and let him contribute, but 95% of his focus should be on recruiting. This is not a controversial point of view.

This all day...

[Jack Lambert]

I think hughes is a great recruiter but not a very good Safty coach.

[BankerDog]

It was either Mark McLaurin or Jon Abrams. AJ Stamps a few years ago was a big miss. He could play some ball.

[Johnson85]

his job recruiting the safety position

I'm pretty sure that's not his job. He does his job recruiting. Obviously your position coach influences recruits at that position, but I find it hard to believe he is really costing us players at safety while simultaneously helping us lock down all these other recruits. What really good safety prospects did we miss out on that we should have gotten?

The argument against Hughes should be that Cox and Coman had the athleticism to be elite and good at safety, respectively, but Cox was just ok and Coman is not even ok. You could throw Bryant and Peters in that argument, but both are first year players so that's probably not as fair. On the flip side, both Market and Jay were probably subpar SEC athletes that maximized their talent. Even if Hughes were subpar as a position coach, I don't think he is nearly the most pressing problem on our staff.

[lachepas565]

As stated by several, Hughes recruits way more than just safeties. Every staff has some guys that are more geared towards recruiting and are a little less on coaching. I think Hughes is a good coach, but the numbers/results may bear out differently. You still have to keep that guy on your staff - you either need to have a DC or another position coach like Townsend in this case to cover for any deficiency.

[BeastMan]

I'm pretty sure that's not his job. He does his job recruiting. Obviously your position coach influences recruits at that position, but I find it hard to believe he is really costing us players at safety while simultaneously helping us lock down all these other recruits. What really good safety prospects did we miss out on that we should have gotten?

The argument against Hughes should be that Cox and Coman had the athleticism to be elite and good at safety, respectively, but Cox was just ok and Coman is not even ok. You could throw Bryant and Peters in that argument, but both are first year players so that's probably not as fair. On the flip side, both Market and Jay were probably subpar SEC athletes that maximized their talent. Even if Hughes were subpar as a position coach, I don't think he is nearly the most pressing problem on our staff.

So if it's not each coaches individual job recruiting their respective positions, why does Hev get 100% blame for OL recruiting and Hughes gets little to no blame for safety recruiting? Im not even defending Hev as much as I'm asking why Hughes is infallible?

[BeastMan]

As stated by several, Hughes recruits way more than just safeties. Every staff has some guys that are more geared towards recruiting and are a little less on coaching. I think Hughes is a good coach, but the numbers/results may bear out differently. You still have to keep that guy on your staff - you either need to have a DC or another position coach like Townsend in this case to cover for any deficiency.

I agree with all that and I said in op I wasn't a fire Hughes guy. I don't think he should be fired. Who deserves blame for the safety position recruiting and coaching?

[RiverCityDawg]

The "Hev vs Hughes" thing is weird because I don't see how they are related. That's besides the point though...

I've thought Hughes stinks as a coach for a while now. Good recruiter supposedly, and a valuable member of the staff because of that, but our safeties consistently looked poorly coached. I think there is a lack of talent. For example I'm on record stating that I thought Coman would be good this year. Turns out he's average/below-average, but still one of our top two options since the young guys aren't quite ready. I also think Coman has more talent than Jay Hughes, Evans or market, but still isn't that good. Guys like Arrington and Brandon Wells didn't pan out at all. More than talent, I think it's coaching.

My biggest gripe with our safeties is that, outside of Nickoe 2010, they play like they don't watch a lick of film. They never look like they recognize formations and thus know who to cover deep or who they can come up and cover short. Very apparent they are covering an area, as opposed to covering receivers in their area, because they don't know what the offense is going to do. It's puts them way out of position to ever make a play on the ball outside of a really poor pass/decision by the QB. All that is coaching.

As for Hev, I think he's okay/not-great as a coach, and a bad recruiter. But he's Mullen's guy so I'm not going to get worked up over it. Him being the "run game coordinator" makes him look really bad since this was the worst running offense State has had in most of our lifetimes.

[Mjoelner34]

The "Hev vs Hughes" thing is weird because I don't see how they are related. That's besides the point though...

I've thought Hughes stinks as a coach for a while now. Good recruiter supposedly, and a valuable member of the staff because of that, but our safeties consistently looked poorly coached. I think there is a lack of talent. For example I'm on record stating that I thought Coman would be good this year. Turns out he's average/below-average, but still one of our top two options since the young guys aren't quite ready. I also think Coman has more talent than Jay Hughes, Evans or market, but still isn't that good. Guys like Arrington and Brandon Wells didn't pan out at all. More than talent, I think it's coaching.

My biggest gripe with our safeties is that, outside of Nickoe 2010, they play like they don't watch a lick of film. They never look like they recognize formations and thus know who to cover deep or who they can come up and cover short. Very apparent they are covering an area, as opposed to covering receivers in their area, because they don't know what the offense is going to do. It's puts them way out of position to ever make a play on the ball outside of a really poor pass/decision by the QB. All that is coaching.

As for Hev, I think he's okay/not-great as a coach, and a bad recruiter. But he's Mullen's guy so I'm not going to get worked up over it. Him being the "run game coordinator" makes him look really bad since this was the worst running offense State has had in most of our lifetimes.

+1 to everything you said.

[BeastMan]

I think we're on the same page River City. The reason I'm comparing the 2 is because in my opinion they have been the 2 position groups who have been the biggest liability. OL and Safety are costing MSU games. Everyone wants to fire Hev for the OL recruiting and play but no one holds Hughes accountable for Safety recruiting & play.

[Johnson85]

So if it's not each coaches individual job recruiting their respective positions, why does Hev get 100% blame for OL recruiting and Hughes gets little to no blame for safety recruiting? Im not even defending Hev as much as I'm asking why Hughes is infallible?

I think rightly or wrongly, the people that recognize that the staff doesn't recruit by position but still blame Hevesy for OL recruiting believe that Hevesy's personality is such a turn-off that he costs us OL recruits that other recruiters are on b/c recruits don't want to play for him. I consistently hear about Hughes being important for big name recruits and outside of Dak, I never hear Hevesy get any credit in recruiting. No clue if any of those assessments are fair, but I that's why Hev gets blamed and Hughes doesn't.

[SDDawg]

I think rightly or wrongly, the people that recognize that the staff doesn't recruit by position but still blame Hevesy for OL recruiting believe that Hevesy's personality is such a turn-off that he costs us OL recruits that other recruiters are on b/c recruits don't want to play for him. I consistently hear about Hughes being important for big name recruits and outside of Dak, I never hear Hevesy get any credit in recruiting. No clue if any of those assessments are fair, but I that's why Hev gets blamed and Hughes doesn't.

Hevesy helped recruit Dak, JRob, and others. But I hear the same thing you hear.

Personally, I don't want to fire anyone. I just want Dan to *LIGHT A FIRE* under this program the way we had it before we went to #1. I've said this at least 10 times, when we hit #1 it's like he changed. We "settled" down the stretch last year, lost our energy, let Collins leaving F up our bowl game and we've never had the edge since. Need to get that back.

[SDDawg]

People in this thread have complained about Hughes, but he made an NFL practice squad so there's got to be something there in his ability. I don't see how people can say he wasn't SEC-talent. That said, his recruitment was not all that strenuous either so it doesn't add much to the overall discussion.

[Political Hack]

The decision to split the CB's and S's has always bothered me. I want a secondary coachyhat does it all. Teach our CB's to tackle like S's and our S's to cover like CB's

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

The decision to split the CB's and S's has always bothered me. I want a secondary coachyhat does it all. Teach our CB's to tackle like S's and our S's to cover like CB's

Couldn't agree more.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think we're on the same page River City. The reason I'm comparing the 2 is because in my opinion they have been the 2 position groups who have been the biggest liability. OL and Safety are costing MSU games. Everyone wants to fire Hev for the OL recruiting and play but no one holds Hughes accountable for Safety recruiting & play.

I think you bring up some good points & it's certainly something to ponder, however, I think the answer is simple.

1. Hughes is our ins-state recruiting closer & he's been wanted by Ole Miss.

2. Being liked & nice to people goes a long way. A good example of this is how Jeremy Giambi & Andy Pettite have been perceived after PED use compared to Barry Bonds & Roger Clemens. The truth is that you can be as big of jerk as you want in life, so long as you are successful, but the moment you aren't successful, no one will take your back & help you. Les Miles & Richt seem to be really good guys & thus, when they were on the chopping block, people stood up for them. When Lane Kiffin was on the chopping block, who stood up for him?

[SDDawg]

The decision to split the CB's and S's has always bothered me. I want a secondary coachyhat does it all. Teach our CB's to tackle like S's and our S's to cover like CB's

Is it possible that we're doing that with Townsend now and we're just not doing if effectively? Honest question, no idea how he's coaching and how those groups are working together, if at all, presently.

[SDDawg]

When Lane Kiffin was on the chopping block, who stood up for him?

Chris. **

[HSVDawg]

Someone who is weak as an on-field coach for two players at a time, but is at the same time excellent as a recruiter for all positions is far more valuable than someone who is below average as an on field coach for 5 players and downright terrible at recruiting those positions as well as a few others.

You also state that Hev churns out a solid O-line every couple of years, but is that really true? The only year the O-line hasn't been a relative weakness in the Mullen era was 2010, and that was with all Croom recruits in our starting 5 as well as a 1st round pick at LT. Last year our OL was middle of the pack in the SEC at best, and it was our undoing as the only 2 elite DL's we played all year completely destroyed us. You stick the 2010 OL on the 2014 team, and you have a national championship at MSU most likely. That 2014 mediocre OL was probably also the best OL Hev has fielded since that 2010 team too.

[CadaverDawg]

I haven't read the whole thread, just the OP...

I questioned Hughes in a thread the other day as well. I wish we could get rid of Sallach & move Hughes to "Recruiting Coordinator"...fire Hevesy, and get new OL & Safeties coaches. I know that will never happen, but that would be nice.

[Irondawg]

I agree with your post Beastman and I've been as hard in the safeties as anyone on this board. They have been downright putrid the past few years and you can't play good defense against all these spread teams with bad safeties. While Hughes doesn't own full responsibility I have to think he helps rate the guys so eval errors are still on him. Safeties used to be hard to eval because no hs in the area ever threw the ball but that is changing.

You are looking for instincts and tackling ability and it should jump out on film. Next is making sure they have enough speed.

I will see I was fired up about mclaurin after practice reports but honestly he was pretty bad in real games so the jury is still out on him to me. Peters showed some growth and I thought Bryant showed some good improvement

[Jarius]

Position coaches are not much more than hired guns for recruiting purposes. People that think Hughes is the reason our safeties aren't good don't know what they are talking about. He recruits the state of Mississippi. He doesn't recruit the safety position. Dan Mullen and the defensive coordinator are the ones who decide who to offer a scholarship. Anyone who wants to take away any responsibility from Hughes is unknowingly wishing harm on our program.

[Homedawg]

I agree with your post Beastman and I've been as hard in the safeties as anyone on this board. They have been downright putrid the past few years and you can't play good defense against all these spread teams with bad safeties. While Hughes doesn't own full responsibility I have to think he helps rate the guys so eval errors are still on him. Safeties used to be hard to eval because no hs in the area ever threw the ball but that is changing.

You are looking for instincts and tackling ability and it should jump out on film. Next is making sure they have enough speed.

I will see I was fired up about mclaurin after practice reports but honestly he was pretty bad in real games so the jury is still out on him to me. Peters showed some growth and I thought Bryant showed some good improvement

Well in reality, peters didn't play safety, he played like an outside linebacker. Or you could call him a old time strong safety near the Los. But he was rarely in the 2 high shell.

[PendingTransaction]

I settle this...fire Tony and give Hev a raise.

[Coursesuper]

There is no question his value for instate recruiting but his job recruiting the safety position and coaching the safety position is worse than Hev's at OL. I feel like I'm the only state fan pissed about safety every single year.

This might be the single stupidest thing I've ever read on this board. You know dick about how things work. To even suggest that Tony Hughes should be replaced before Hevesy is boarder line retardation. Hevesy is the main reason we are regressing on the oline and are getting worse every year. If we were even decent on the line last year we win it all. But we sucked, and we're worse this year. As for recruiting Hughes and Turner have to come in behind Hevesy to fix his fvck ups.

[BeastMan]

This might be the single stupidest thing I've ever read on this board. You know dick about how things work. To even suggest that Tony Hughes should be replaced before Hevesy is boarder line retardation. Hevesy is the main reason we are regressing on the oline and are getting worse every year. If we were even decent on the line last year we win it all. But we sucked, and we're worse this year. As for recruiting Hughes and Turner have to come in behind Hevesy to fix his fvck ups.

Literally nowhere did I say Hughes should go before Hev. I don't think Hugges should go. Read more slowly

[BeastMan]

Position coaches are not much more than hired guns for recruiting purposes. People that think Hughes is the reason our safeties aren't good don't know what they are talking about. He recruits the state of Mississippi. He doesn't recruit the safety position. Dan Mullen and the defensive coordinator are the ones who decide who to offer a scholarship. Anyone who wants to take away any responsibility from Hughes is unknowingly wishing harm on our program.

I'm fine with everything you just said about the recruiting process. So if that's the case, why does Hev get 100% of the blame for OL recruiting. I haven't suggested Hughes be fired or responsibilities be changed anywhere in this thread. All I've said is that safety recruiting and play has been horrendous. What I'm gathering is that it's consensus that it isn't Hughes fault. On the other hand, it is 100% Hev's fault that OL recruiting and play is horrendous. I'm examining why that perception exists.

[Dawg61]

This might be the single stupidest thing I've ever read on this board. You know dick about how things work. To even suggest that Tony Hughes should be replaced before Hevesy is boarder line retardation. Hevesy is the main reason we are regressing on the oline and are getting worse every year. If we were even decent on the line last year we win it all. But we sucked, and we're worse this year. As for recruiting Hughes and Turner have to come in behind Hevesy to fix his fvck ups.

What the hell? Our secondary has been atrocious for several years now. You just gonna continue ignoring The Great Wide Open that our secondary has become? It has to get fixed before next season. Who is instructing the secondary? Who is studying film with the secondary? That person needs to no longer do that job anymore. Can they have a different job for MSU? Yes

[Jarius]

I'm fine with everything you just said about the recruiting process. So if that's the case, why does Hev get 100% of the blame for OL recruiting. I haven't suggested Hughes be fired or responsibilities be changed anywhere in this thread. All I've said is that safety recruiting and play has been horrendous. What I'm gathering is that it's consensus that it isn't Hughes fault. On the other hand, it is 100% Hev's fault that OL recruiting and play is horrendous. I'm examining why that perception exists.

Hevesy is a terrible recruiter in general. Not only does he turn off the high school coaches and players in his designated recruiting area, but when we are recruiting offensive linemen from outside of his designated area we have to overcome his dumbassery when they meet his arrogant ass. It took me meeting him one time at the CWS to know that he was a major liability in a living room. He is a very angry human being. Even when he isn't the primary recruiter for an offensive lineman, we still have to overcome him because everyone wants to at least meet the coach that they are going to play for. The offensive line recruiting isn't all on him though. We have signed some very highly rated guys that were complete busts.

[JoseBrown]

Position coaches are not much more than hired guns for recruiting purposes. People that think Hughes is the reason our safeties aren't good don't know what they are talking about. He recruits the state of Mississippi. He doesn't recruit the safety position. Dan Mullen and the defensive coordinator are the ones who decide who to offer a scholarship. Anyone who wants to take away any responsibility from Hughes is unknowingly wishing harm on our program.

This is one of the more correct posts in this thread.

Whoever made the decision to hide Comans helmet at halftime cared about winning that game. His first half consisted of missing about three tackles that ended up costing us dearly. Maybe that was Hevesy's call, idk.*** but someone was paying attention. And for the Jiles bashers for next year, the kid played great Saturday..

And I think someone posted the list of recruits Hughes has been responsible for earlier. That list consisted of most of our better players. He needs to keep recruiting, no matter what else he does. He's a beast in every way Hevesy isn't at recruiting. People like him immediately, and trust him.. He builds great relationships quickly. Hevesy has a hard time getting past the high school coach.

[NCDawg]

But if Tony Hughes was let go he would be at Ole Miss the next day kicking our ass at recruiting and that is a fact. He is the heartbeat at identifying talent in MS. He is all over the place and is highly HIGHLY thought of by all high school coaches in MS. Letting him go would be slitting your throat giving what MSUs recruiting philosophy is. You lose him you have to change what you do as a staff as far as recruiting is concerned in the state of Mississippi.


Um, it appears Ole Miss is kicking our ass in recruiting anyway, as it is.

[MSUMatt]

Um, it appears Ole Miss is kicking our ass in recruiting anyway, as it is.

100% agree which is why it's a compliment to Hughes that they want or would take him.

[Dawg61]

This is one of the more correct posts in this thread.

Whoever made the decision to hide Comans helmet at halftime cared about winning that game. His first half consisted of missing about three tackles that ended up costing us dearly. Maybe that was Hevesy's call, idk.*** but someone was paying attention. And for the Jiles bashers for next year, the kid played great Saturday..

And I think someone posted the list of recruits Hughes has been responsible for earlier. That list consisted of most of our better players. He needs to keep recruiting, no matter what else he does. He's a beast in every way Hevesy isn't at recruiting. People like him immediately, and trust him.. He builds great relationships quickly. Hevesy has a hard time getting past the high school coach.

Great so whose coaching the safeties on how to play safety once they get here? That person needs to not do that anymore.

[Jarius]

Great so whose coaching the safeties on how to play safety once they get here? That person needs to not do that anymore.

The problem isn't who is coaching the safeties. The problem is the talent that we are putting on the field at the safety position, and that doesn't fall on the Safety coach. He recruits an area, not a postion. He can't help that there weren't a bunch of good safety prospects within his recruiting area until last year. Maybe if we got rid of the dead recruiting weight, he would have more to work with at his position. Coman, Market, Wade Bonner, Whitley (post injury), Hughes (post injury), Deonta Evans, Quadry Antoine, etc. are not SEC players. It doesn't matter who is coaching them. They are going to suck. If you want better results at the safety position, we need to hire better recruiters on staff that get us better players. It looks like we are going to have 3 good ones in the future in Peters, Bryant, and McLaurin, but you can't expect them to play that well as Freshman.

[Dawg61]

The problem isn't who is coaching the safeties. The problem is the talent that we are putting on the field at the safety position, and that doesn't fall on the Safety coach. He recruits an area, not a postion. He can't help that there weren't a bunch of good safety prospects within his recruiting area until last year. Maybe if we got rid of the dead recruiting weight, he would have more to work with at his position. Coman, Market, Wade Bonner, Whitley (post injury), Hughes (post injury), Deonta Evans, Quadry Antoine, etc. are not SEC players. It doesn't matter who is coaching them. They are going to suck. If you want better results at the safety position, we need to hire better recruiters on staff that get us better players. It looks like we are going to have 3 good ones in the future in Peters, Bryant, and McLaurin, but you can't expect them to play that well as Freshman.

Why even have a safeties coach if it's all about talent then? Can we blame Diaz and Mullen for forcing the secondary to play The Great Wide Open scheme?

[Jarius]

To be quite honest we don't need a safeties coach. A lot of people just have a defensive back coach for corners and safeties. The 2010 defense had both Manny and Hughes on it and was our best defense under Mullen by a long shot. That's because we had about 9 NFL players on that defense. If we would recruit better players we wouldn't be having this conversation

[BeastMan]

To be quite honest we don't need a safeties coach. A lot of people just have a defensive back coach for corners and safeties. The 2010 defense had both Manny and Hughes on it and was our best defense under Mullen by a long shot. That's because we had about 9 NFL players on that defense. If we would recruit better players we wouldn't be having this conversation

State has SEC caliber players at DL & LB and has over the last 4 years. They do not at Safety. Who is to blame for that?

[BeastMan]

I stated earlier that I like what we have in Bryant and McLaurin going forward. Jamal Paters has been playing the Matt Wells role this year so I'm not really counting him as a safety going forward. Right now MSU has ZERO safeties committed unless ATH Nero Nelson is a safety. So I ask yet again, who is to blame for safety recruiting?

[Jarius]

State has SEC caliber players at DL & LB and has over the last 4 years. They do not at Safety. Who is to blame for that?

Dan Mullen is to blame for that because he only has 1 or two heavy hitter recruiters on his entire staff. Tony can't recruit everyone. There happened to not be a lot
Of high end safety prospects in Tony's area (until this past year). When there was a few big time prospects, he got them (Peters and McLaurin). They just happen to be young. We have to recruit more nationally. We do it in basketball right now so I don't want to hear that it can't be done. Spend the money to hire really good recruiters and we will at least have an opportunity to win big.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Here are class years with offers and who we signed:
2011: Offered 6...Cox (HS), Arrington, Market, and Slay
2012: Offered 6...Antoine and Coman as an athlete
2013: Offered 14...Shumpert, Cox, and Coman
2014: Offered 16...Bryant (Same year the Moore twins)
2015: Offered 21...Peters and McLaurin

We're steadily increasing our offers.

[BeastMan]

Dan Mullen is to blame for that because he only has 1 or two heavy hitter recruiters on his entire staff. Tony can't recruit everyone. There happened to not be a lot
Of high end safety prospects in Tony's area (until this past year). When there was a few big time prospects, he got them (Peters and McLaurin). They just happen to be young. We have to recruit more nationally. We do it in basketball right now so I don't want to hear that it can't be done. Spend the money to hire really good recruiters and we will at least have an opportunity to win big.

So the OL should be Mullen's fault too then. Right?

[Jarius]

So the OL should be Mullen's fault too then. Right?

Very much so. Hevesy isn't a terrible oline coach. He's just a terrible recruiter. We can find someone that coaches the oline as good as he does but recruits much better. Same with Sallach.

[CarolinaDawgs]

Hevesy helped recruit Dak, JRob, and others. But I hear the same thing you hear.

Personally, I don't want to fire anyone. I just want Dan to *LIGHT A FIRE* under this program the way we had it before we went to #1. I've said this at least 10 times, when we hit #1 it's like he changed. We "settled" down the stretch last year, lost our energy, let Collins leaving F up our bowl game and we've never had the edge since. Need to get that back.

THIS.. Since when did we earn the right NOT to play with a chip on our shoulder.. That is what makes us so ****ing threatening IMO... Complacency kills.

[CarolinaDawgs]

We won't ever recruit nationally... I think its a direct correlation to how we can't recruit actual students nationally...

I just graduated and moved to Chicago/Charlotte... this is how every conversation goes..

OTHER GUY: Where'd you go to school?

ME: I graduated from Mississippi State

OTHER GUY: Oh shit, you went to Ole Miss?!!

ME: *inserts gun in mouth and pulls trigger*

I am not joking you this happens to every single person I meet. Its like we don't exist on a national scale... I can't put my finger on it but we just don't.

[Jarius]

We won't ever recruit nationally... I think its a direct correlation to how we can't recruit actual students nationally...

I just graduated and moved to Chicago/Charlotte... this is how every conversation goes..

OTHER GUY: Where'd you go to school?

ME: I graduated from Mississippi State

OTHER GUY: Oh shit, you went to Ole Miss?!!

ME: *inserts gun in mouth and pulls trigger*

I am not joking you this happens to every single person I meet. Its like we don't exist on a national scale... I can't put my finger on it but we just don't.

We currently have a top 10 recruiting class with national basketball prospects. We can recruit nationally if we have coaches in place that know what they are doing.

[CarolinaDawgs]

We currently have a top 10 recruiting class with national basketball prospects. We can recruit nationally if we have coaches in place that know what they are doing.

BASKETBALL is EONS different than football because of AAU.. Please don't lean on that as your argument.

[Jarius]

I can't wait to hear how we can recruit nationally in basketball, ole miss can recruit nationally in football, and we can't recruit nationally in football. They are a national brand in football recruiting because they choose to recruit that way. We have taken a different approach. To say that we can't recruit like them is just accepting status quo.