How much of last night do you put on Howland?

[Irondawg]

I was really disappointed last night and I didn't find it to just be "one of those nights" where the opponent hits a ton of crazy shots and we are ice cold. We still should have tied the game at the end and then who knows what would have happened but we played bad.

We played extremely poorly on defense for a half mostly due to exerting no effort. They could entry pass to the post at will.

Our offense gave me flashback to Stans last few years. Lots of standing around with no off the ball movement and then settling for a contested 3. Careless turnovers in transition. Our "slasher" took 11 shots and 8 of them are 3's. Sword should never take 8 3-pt shots and it certainly shouldn't be 2/3 of his shot slection. We got almost nothing in the lane the 2nd half until the very end.

So there are some signs of long-term concern. Maybe merited, maybe not since we are only two games in. But it certainly hasn't been what I was expecting. To be a good team you have to be at least active on defense. That's the secret to Cal's success. He gets those guys to play defense while they figure out offense because honestly most of the freshmen haven't played against a lot of guys that play good defense, much less good team defense so they have to figure out how to adjust to actually seeing help side defense.

These next two games will tell us a lot.

[TXDawg]

The biggest shocker to me was the very end; down 2 with 17 seconds to play and we didn't foul them. Instead, we let them get an easy bucket in the paint to make it a 4-point game with under 10 to play. That's piss-poor situational awareness.

[rabbitthedawg]

Oh come on man...I see your frustration, but Coach Howland will have the team ready. He noted the lack of defense and will work to correct that part of the game. Losing to a SWAC team early like this just might wake em up and that they have to play a complete game. Let's see what happens in Puerto Rico...

[Coach34]

We are worse defensively than we ever were under Ray- that's all on Howland

We will get a lot better and Howland is a great coach- but he has got to tighten up

[preachermatt83]

Cmon guys, it's one game!!

[shannondawg]

He took the some of the blame, and placed it on some of the players not playing defense and standing around.

Not to make excuses for them, but I think they were thinking that the game would just come to them, because of who the opponent was, and i'm sure that they were looking just to get it done and go on their trip.

Coach34 i thought of you, watching them stand around on offense.

I have been smiling all week looking at the posts on how many points Malik was going to make. Not many seemed to realize he is a freshman and hasn't practiced in 3 weeks. The game will come to him, he was just trying too hard. I really like our two freshman guards , they sure don't look like freshman guards we have had in the past, they got really good size to them.

It brought back memory of Sidney's debut in Jackson, those little Bellehaven guys were taking the ball away from him all night long. Needless to say anything else about him though, its been throughly discussed more than enough.

[maroonmania]

Our post defense will be piss poor all year. Gavin Ware is a below average post defender and Zuppardo is a perimeter guy in a post player's body. Ndoye is a decent defender but a liability everywhere else. Losing guys like Roq Johnson and Oliver Black turned an average post defense into a crappy post defense. Not sure what Howland can do to correct that other than bring in guys like Herard and Ado but they won't be here until next year.

[maroonmania]

He took the some of the blame, and placed it on some of the players not playing defense and standing around.

Not to make excuses for them, but I think they were thinking that the game would just come to them, because of who the opponent was, and i'm sure that they were looking just to get it done and go on their trip.

Coach34 i thought of you, watching them stand around on offense.

I have been smiling all week looking at the posts on how many points Malik was going to make. Not many seemed to realize he is a freshman and hasn't practiced in 3 weeks. The game will come to him, he was just trying too hard. I really like our two freshman guards , they sure don't look like freshman guards we have had in the past, they got really good size to them.

It brought back memory of Sidney's debut in Jackson, those little Bellehaven guys were taking the ball away from him all night long. Needless to say anything else about him though, its been throughly discussed more than enough.

Seriously, how many practices does he need to make a few free throws that he has been shooting since he was a kid? That 1-6 performance from the free throw line was a killer with it being a close game.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

nm

[maroonmania]

nm

Primary key would be to score more points than they do.

[HoopsDawg]

We don't have a rim protector on this team. That alone makes you weak on defense.

Ready is a liability on the defensive end right now. If he's not producing on offense like he did not for the first 35 minutes of the game, it's going to be rough. We even had to put Fred Thomas on the PG last Friday b/c Ready couldn't stop him.

Malik never had to play defense in high school. He has a big learning curve there. Getting to the NIT would be a nice accomplishment with this team.

[Political Hack]

This team has no guts and doesn't know how to win. They will learn. We've got the talent to put away these types of teams and some in the SEC too. I think we'll push close to 20 wins. Doubt we get there but I think we'll have a winning record.

[Irondawg]

Agree - our realistic goal should be NIT and there's plenty of talent here to get that. My biggest gripe was that if we're not going to guard the post anyway let's press some and try to get our tempo back b/c we're a much better transition team. Southern did a really, really good job of getting back quickly to eliminate a lot of our running.

But we just didn't have any energy or effort on defense and that's what can't happen. I did just watch the postgame presser and liked a lot of Howland's comments so let's see what happen in Puerto Rico.

[HoopsDawg]

Agree - our realistic goal should be NIT and there's plenty of talent here to get that. My biggest gripe was that if we're not going to guard the post anyway let's press some and try to get our tempo back b/c we're a much better transition team. Southern did a really, really good job of getting back quickly to eliminate a lot of our running.

But we just didn't have any energy or effort on defense and that's what can't happen. I did just watch the postgame presser and liked a lot of Howland's comments so let's see what happen in Puerto Rico.

We really caused Southern problems with our full court pressure, but we didn't go to it until the last 3 minutes of the game. We have 5 guards that can rotate in and like to run.

[msstate7]

We really caused Southern problems with our full court pressure, but we didn't go to it until the last 3 minutes of the game. We have 5 guards that can rotate in and like to run.

Since most juco teams could score on us in the half court, should we go full court press more? Is front court depth what's stopping us from doing it?

[HoopsDawg]

Since most juco teams could score on us in the half court, should we go full court press more? Is front court depth what's stopping us from doing it?

Probably so. That and the way games are being called.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Well you pretty much have to put most of it on the coach. It was a bad loss. On the other hand he doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to work with. Good teams don't have players like Ndoye and Zuppardo getting the minutes they are getting.

[JayDawg]

I put very little of the loss on Howland and I place most of the blame on Ray. Situational awareness was a big problem. It is understandable with freshmen, but not with the upperclassmen. This is the result of having a piss poor coach for the past several years. You cannot judge Howland based on the second game of the season. If we still look this bad in conference play then, yes, there is a serious problem. People need to calm down, this is basketball. Shiit happens.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I put very little of the loss on Howland and I place most of the blame on Ray. Situational awareness was a big problem. It is understandable with freshmen, but not with the upperclassmen. This is the result of having a piss poor coach for the past several years. You cannot judge Howland based on the second game of the season. If we still look this bad in conference play then, yes, there is a serious problem. People need to calm down, this is basketball. Shiit happens.

I love how you blame the coach who isn't there anymore. I do agree that you can't make a final judgement based on two games. Didn't see the game last night but from the first game saw that the new shot clock and the new foul rules were going to mean less defense and a lot more scoring. I liked what I saw in the first game except for how easily we were scored on. Defense Defense Defense.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I put very little of the loss on Howland and I place most of the blame on Ray. Situational awareness was a big problem. It is understandable with freshmen, but not with the upperclassmen. This is the result of having a piss poor coach for the past several years. You cannot judge Howland based on the second game of the season. If we still look this bad in conference play then, yes, there is a serious problem. People need to calm down, this is basketball. Shiit happens.

This loss is totally on Howland & the players. You can't slurp up Howland & how great a job he done against Eastern Washington & then blame Ray for losing to Southern. Just doesn't work like that. It's 1 game it's a terrible loss but it's 1 game. Howland deserves all the praise he's gotten but he's not above criticism & when you lose to Southern you deserve some. This team will improve & have a good year but the only people responsible for what happens this year are the players & coaches who are here now.

[JayDawg]

This loss is totally on Howland & the players. You can't slurp up Howland & how great a job he done against Eastern Washington & then blame Ray for losing to Southern. Just doesn't work like that.

I am not really sure what "slurp up Howland" means, so I can't really defend myself against the comment; however I definitely have not praised him for the win against Eastern Washington. If you have issue with me placing blame on Ray, fine, but don't put words in my mouth.

I do agree with you regarding Howland not being above criticism, though. If the team does not get better then he will have to answer for it. I think this loss hurts more than it should because people were extra excited about this season.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I am not really sure what "slurp up Howland" means, so I can't really defend myself against the comment; however I definitely have not praised him for the win against Eastern Washington. If you have issue with me placing blame on Ray, fine, but don't put words in my mouth.

I do agree with you regarding Howland not being above criticism, though. If the team does not get better then he will have to answer for it. I think this loss hurts more than it should because people were extra excited about this season.

That phrase really wasn't directed at you so I shouldn't have used it. Ray wasn't on the sideline coaching last night against a SWAC team so I don't see how we can blame him for that loss. Does this team have some bad habits & ways? Yes but that's why we pay Howland $2.05million for. I heard consistently over the past 3yrs Ray is getting paid $1million so there's no excuse. Well that's how it should be with Howland last night.

[JayDawg]

Fair enough.

[mic]

This was a bad loss... No way to sugar coat that..
But let's pump the breaks a little.
Yes it's a SWAC team. Same team that lost by less than 10 points last year to both Iowa St and Baylor .
It's game #2.. If this happened later in the season we could worry more.
The 1996 final 4 team lost a home game to Arkansas Little Rock early in the season that year.

We played bad last night. Lots of turnovers. Malik was very rusty. I thought the officiating was very poor.. We still do very dumb things on both side of the ball.. Dumb fouls, bad shots, stupid turnovers, missed free throws..
But we have one of the better coaches in college basketball , so take some of the bad this year with the greatness that will follow the years to come..

Give CBH some time to get his rotation down .. The one big thing that will hurt us this year is post defense.. It's going to be below average at best..
This team will be fine.. And will win a good number of basketball games... Enough for the NCAA ? Maybe.. NIT for sure..

[Johnson85]

That phrase really wasn't directed at you so I shouldn't have used it. Ray wasn't on the sideline coaching last night against a SWAC team so I don't see how we can blame him for that loss. Does this team have some bad habits & ways? Yes but that's why we pay Howland $2.05million for. I heard consistently over the past 3yrs Ray is getting paid $1million so there's no excuse. Well that's how it should be with Howland last night.

Ray left us with a team with talent and bad habits that could lose to a SWAC team. It's not exactly Howland's fault he hasn't corrected that two games in even if it wasn't a showing that reflected well on Howland. If Howland loses to a SWAC team next year, even with basically one year to recruit, that's on him.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Ray left us with a team with talent and bad habits that could lose to a SWAC team. It's not exactly Howland's fault he hasn't corrected that two games in even if it wasn't a showing that reflected well on Howland. If Howland loses to a SWAC team next year, even with basically one year to recruit, that's on him.

He's the coach it's on him. It's ok.

[drunkernhelldawg]

He's the coach it's on him. It's ok.

Exactly.

[smootness]

There will be ups and downs these first two years. Some coaches have success immediately, but evidence suggests that perhaps it takes Howland a while to implement his system and get his players to buy into it. We should be set up better than his 1st years elsewhere, but we'll see. And next year we will be very, very young, although talented.

We just need to be patient and see how it plays out. The players need to realize that just because Howland is now the coach doesn't mean they're suddenly way better and don't need to show up every night to win. And Howland needs to realize this team is not good enough to go any less than 100% at everybody from the opening tip.

I still think we can be a Tourney team. However, a couple more losses like this will kill that. I expect us to look a lot better come SEC play, but it won't matter if we don't win just about all the rest of our OOC games.

[Bothrops]

Be patient. Howland will bring them around, especially when he gets his own players. Remember, he hasn't coached in a couple of years, he needs time to get the feel back. Now, if we don't show marked improvement between now and say..January, it will be time for some concern. Still, until he gets his own players, I'm not sure what to expect.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

There will be ups and downs these first two years. Some coaches have success immediately, but evidence suggests that perhaps it takes Howland a while to implement his system and get his players to buy into it. We should be set up better than his 1st years elsewhere, but we'll see. And next year we will be very, very young, although talented.

We just need to be patient and see how it plays out. The players need to realize that just because Howland is now the coach doesn't mean they're suddenly way better and don't need to show up every night to win. And Howland needs to realize this team is not good enough to go any less than 100% at everybody from the opening tip.

I still think we can be a Tourney team. However, a couple more losses like this will kill that. I expect us to look a lot better come SEC play, but it won't matter if we don't win just about all the rest of our OOC games.

Howland has not taken over any schools where the coach bolted due to success. He has always taken over rebuilds.

School's the year before he took over:
Northern Arizona - 13-13
Pittsburgh - 14-16
UCLA - 10-19
MSU - 13-19

[Johnson85]

He's the coach it's on him. It's ok.

That's somewhat ridiculous. You know how to tell that this loss isn't on him? Exactly nobody is wondering whether we should keep him after this year. That's the appropriate response when an SEC team loses to a SWAC team in football or basketball, to look and see whether this was some kind of fluke, or a sign of a major problem that can be and is being addrsesed quickly, or whether it's a sign of a fatal flaw. But everybody knows that a lot of a teams performance is already baked in the cake in a coach's first year. This was just a bad showing by Howland's team. Nobody is talking about him needing to be gone because everybody recognizes it's not on him.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

That's somewhat ridiculous. You know how to tell that this loss isn't on him? Exactly nobody is wondering whether we should keep him after this year. That's the appropriate response when an SEC team loses to a SWAC team in football or basketball, to look and see whether this was some kind of fluke, or a sign of a major problem that can be and is being addrsesed quickly, or whether it's a sign of a fatal flaw. But everybody knows that a lot of a teams performance is already baked in the cake in a coach's first year. This was just a bad showing by Howland's team. Nobody is talking about him needing to be gone because everybody recognizes it's not on him.

That makes no sense. Saban lost to ULM was there supposed to be talk of him being fired? How is it ridiculous to not blame the current coach for losing a game he is supposed to win? I'm not understanding your logic. Nobody is saying Howland cant coach or we've made a mistake but damn he didn't have his team prepared to play a team they should clearly beat. That's on the current coach I'm sorry.

[drunkernhelldawg]

That's somewhat ridiculous. You know how to tell that this loss isn't on him? Exactly nobody is wondering whether we should keep him after this year. That's the appropriate response when an SEC team loses to a SWAC team in football or basketball, to look and see whether this was some kind of fluke, or a sign of a major problem that can be and is being addrsesed quickly, or whether it's a sign of a fatal flaw. But everybody knows that a lot of a teams performance is already baked in the cake in a coach's first year. This was just a bad showing by Howland's team. Nobody is talking about him needing to be gone because everybody recognizes it's not on him.

Nobody's gonna call for his head two games into his first season. I personally don't think it's healthy to keep an absent scapegoat handy.

[Dawg61]

My thoughts on last night.

We are struggling with the newly emphasized fouls rule. The players don't seem to understand it.

We are not a very bright team. Last night we had 1 second on the shot clock on a out of bounds play and Howland held up 1 for 1 second and screamed it about 50 times and Ware still had no clue. Really Ware? What you thinking about bro?

Daniels, Chicken, Fred and Ware all disappeared in the 2nd half. Seniors MUST step up and lead this team. All four of them seemed completely fine with disappearing in the background and letting the rookies lead. Can't happen. The seniors need to sack up and be leaders.

Malik was clearly trying to show how much of a bad ass he is and ended up embarrassing himself instead. He got his pocket picked multiple times, he jacked up 2-3 awful threes at NBA range (one was a turnaround fade away, who does that?) and he was so cool he didn't even need to bother with having a follow through on his free throws. 1-6 says you gotta have correct shooting mechanics even if you're trying to be the coolest dude on the court Malik. Malik showed a lot of immaturity last night and I'm being hard on him cause he obviously needs someone to do it instead of filling his head with how amazing he is.

Once we fouled out Allen with ten minutes left I thought we were about to open the floodgates on Southern. Nope. We went totally braindead instead and didn't feed the post or drive and feed the post the entire rest of the game. I am not sure if this was the players not listening to Howland or Howland not emphasizing it loud enough which leads me to the next point.

Howland seems to be holding back some with the players. Maybe they can't take criticism well or Howland is still in the honeymoon stage with the players and the University but that needs to end now. Get on their ass Howland when they deserve it. Last night they deserved a lot of ass chewings.

Southern completely shut down our transition offense. We must of scored 50 points on transition vs Eastern and (without looking it up) we scored less than 10 vs Southern. I give credit to Soithern to be good enough to do that but with our guards and our coach that's just unacceptable for us. We MUST MUST MUST score almost 50% of our total points on transition. Almost the entire game we settled for attempting to run a set offense but the players did nothing but stand. We do not understand half-court offense AT ALL right now. (Players aren't bright guys)

Southern is a good team. They will win 20 this year.

[mstatefan91]

I think you are seeing Howland crack down already.

Houston suspended. Good defensive play will decide playing time, not offense.

[dickiedawg]

Just going to answer the OP question, and nothing more:

This loss is 100% on Howland. There is a vast talent gulf between the two teams.

That's not to say he's a bad coach or I've written off the season or anything, but this was a bad loss and the coach is to blame. But he doesn't need a mulligan year like Ray did.

[mstatefan91]

Just going to answer the OP question, and nothing more:

This loss is 100% on Howland. There is a vast talent gulf between the two teams.

That's not to say he's a bad coach or I've written off the season or anything, but this was a bad loss and the coach is to blame. But he doesn't need a mulligan year like Ray did.

On the coach? Yes

Doesn't need a mulligan year? Not so fast

We will know more after this weekend.

[Maroon_and_white]

My thoughts on last night.


Malik was clearly trying to show how much of a bad ass he is and ended up embarrassing himself instead. He got his pocket picked multiple times, he jacked up 2-3 awful threes at NBA range (one was a turnaround fade away, who does that?) and he was so cool he didn't even need to bother with having a follow through on his free throws. 1-6 says you gotta have correct shooting mechanics even if you're trying to be the coolest dude on the court Malik. Malik showed a lot of immaturity last night and I'm being hard on him cause he obviously needs someone to do it instead of filling his head with how amazing he is.



This is about par for the course for how Malik plays. He is a do everything combo guard that puts up ridiculous shots. He made a lot of them vs high school talent but this is the college game now. He's probably going to have games where he scores 25 and games where he scores 5. He's basically a D Rose type player and he is going to have to adjust to game situation PG play since that is what he wants to be and where is size/talent best projects him at the NBA level. He's got the rest of 2015 to figure it out and he's going to have the learn to flow with the team by SEC play.

[mstatefan91]

This is about par for the course for how Malik plays. He is a do everything combo guard that puts up ridiculous shots. He made a lot of them vs high school talent but this is the college game now. He's probably going to have games where he scores 25 and games where he scores 5. He's basically a D Rose type player and he is going to have to adjust to game situation PG play since that is what he wants to be and where is size/talent best projects him at the NBA level. He's got the rest of 2015 to figure it out and he's going to have the learn to flow with the team by SEC play.

I honestly didn't see him try to do anything over the top ridiculous after the first few series.

He took some open 3's that were about 1 inch from being in and would have changed the outcome of the game, but I didn't see him forcing it from 3. He was trying to force it inside and lost it multiple times.

[tcdog70]

We are worse defensively than we ever were under Ray- that's all on Howland

We will get a lot better and Howland is a great coach- but he has got to tighten up

You can't defend the same way Ray defended. He has to figure out what is a foul and what you can get away with. There we some shitty calls last night. Plus our Point Guard play has to improve. Howland can't help that our 5 star one and doner can't make a free throw. "Just Play Offense the Defense will take care of itself'*****

[mstatefan91]

I don't think I've ever seen a player take free throws like Malik was last night. It was lackadaisical. No rhythm. Just put it up with no thought.

[tcdog70]

This was a bad loss... No way to sugar coat that..
But let's pump the breaks a little.
Yes it's a SWAC team. Same team that lost by less than 10 points last year to both Iowa St and Baylor .
It's game #2.. If this happened later in the season we could worry more.
The 1996 final 4 team lost a home game to Arkansas Little Rock early in the season that year.

We played bad last night. Lots of turnovers. Malik was very rusty. I thought the officiating was very poor.. We still do very dumb things on both side of the ball.. Dumb fouls, bad shots, stupid turnovers, missed free throws..
But we have one of the better coaches in college basketball , so take some of the bad this year with the greatness that will follow the years to come..

Give CBH some time to get his rotation down .. The one big thing that will hurt us this year is post defense.. It's going to be below average at best..
This team will be fine.. And will win a good number of basketball games... Enough for the NCAA ? Maybe.. NIT for sure..

that A-LR team was Coached by Wimp and their guard (who lit our ass up) was Derek Fisher.

[BossDawg]

I don't feel like Howland needs to be blamed much at all, if any. I'm no basketball guru so I could very well be wrong, but he's still learning things about his players. Is he not? Everything is completely new to him and I would think he's still ironing out things like the rotation, who has more stamina, strengths, weaknesses, etc..etc..

I was expecting to drop some ugly games in the beginning.

[mic]

that A-LR team was Coached by Wimp and their guard (who lit our ass up) was Derek Fisher.

I'm aware who was on that team...
Just making a point that a final four team lost an early game to a much inferior team..

[dickiedawg]

His first game he started 4 seniors and a junior. This team has 2 all-sec players on it.
This team is so far ahead of what Ray fielded his first season, replacing 9 players including all 5 starters, it's not even in the same universe.
Obviously I don't expect a final four year one or anything but it's not a complete write off.

[dickiedawg]

His first game he started 4 seniors and a junior. This team has 2 all-sec players on it.
This team is so far ahead of what Ray fielded his first season, replacing 9 players including all 5 starters, it's not even in the same universe.
Obviously I don't expect a final four year one or anything but it's not a complete write off.