It's amazing that those ...

[Liverpooldawg]

who try to portray MSU in a positive light are vilified on a "MSU" board. Not seeing the Forrest for the trees is an OLD tradition. It is so old MSU it hurts. There will be a ton of examples coming here I'm sure.

[Coach007]

Hmmm? I'm gonna need some examples!

[TimberBeast]

who try to portray MSU in a positive light are vilified on a "MSU" board. Not seeing the Forrest for the trees is an OLD tradition. It is so old MSU it hurts. There will be a ton of examples coming here I'm sure.

Please stop with the "old MSU" shit. It's not a real thing.

[Liverpooldawg]

O
Please stop with the "old MSU" shit. It's not a real thing.

Yes it is. Every time we lose its voice is loud. In fact the less we lose the louder it gets. I have never understood it but it's been that way since I have been alive and aware. I'm nearly 52. I'd say I've been aware of MSU athletics for at least 40 years.

[TimberBeast]

O

Yes it is. Every time we lose its voice is loud. In fact the less we lose the louder it gets. I have never understood it but it's been that way since I have been alive and aware. I'm nearly 52. I'd say I've been aware of MSU athletics for at least 40 years.

I'm 39, been watching for 39 years. Please tell me what old MSU means.

[Liverpooldawg]

Old MSU means always looking for a savior. It means never buckling down and doing the long hard work it takes to become a winner. It means turning on a coach quick and hard at the least sign of not winning as many as the year before. It means bashing our own so hard that no coach can overcome the negative attitude. We have only had one coach in my lifetime manage to beat the drumbeat once it started, and he only managed it for 3 years really. That was JWS the first time it started on him. We helped the Rebs and the NCAA along eventually. UM has always played us like a virtuoso violinist on this. I hear that same old song starting again.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Show me a coach at MSU that has been given 4-5 years, and during that time has been building something then all the sudden gets fired before completion when signs of progression and glory days ahead have been seen....

[TimberBeast]

Old MSU means always looking for a savior. It means never buckling down and doing the long hard work it takes to become a winner. It means turning on a coach quick and hard at the least sign of not winning as many as the year before. It means bashing our own so hard that no coach can overcome the negative attitude. We have only had one coach in my lifetime manage to beat the drumbeat once it started, and he only managed it for 3 years really. That was JWS the first time it started on him. We helped the Rebs and the NCAA along eventually. UM has always played us like a virtuoso violinist on this. I hear that same old song starting again.

Yeah that is something completely made up in your head. That's not real, sorry.

[Liverpooldawg]

Old MSU means always looking for a savior. It means never buckling down and doing the long hard work it takes to become a winner. It means turning on a coach quick and hard at the least sign of not winning as many as the year before. It means bashing our own so hard that no coach can overcome the negative attitude. We have only had one coach in my lifetime manage to beat the drumbeat once it started, and he only managed it for 3 years really. That was JWS the first time it started on him. We helped the Rebs and the NCAA along eventually. UM has always played us like a virtuoso violinist on this. I hear that same old song starting again.

I'll make it simpler. Old MSU is about whining and complaining, no matter how good things are, about what's seen as being wrong. It's never about celebrating what is good. I remember New Year's Eve 1999. We had just cemented only the 2nd 10 win season in our history but most of the talk was about why we lost the two we lost, not about winning 10. It's time, for perhaps the first time in our history, we tried a different path.

[Liverpooldawg]

Yeah that is something completely made up in your head. That's not real, sorry.

Is it now? I don't think so.

[Dawg61]

Old MSU means always looking for a savior. It means never buckling down and doing the long hard work it takes to become a winner. It means turning on a coach quick and hard at the least sign of not winning as many as the year before. It means bashing our own so hard that no coach can overcome the negative attitude. We have only had one coach in my lifetime manage to beat the drumbeat once it started, and he only managed it for 3 years really. That was JWS the first time it started on him. We helped the Rebs and the NCAA along eventually. UM has always played us like a virtuoso violinist on this. I hear that same old song starting again.

Hey Liverpool we are all meeting in the "Fix the OL" room. I think you've wandered into Mordor looking for Frodo. Hope you can make it back to the Fix The OL room. We have some good discussion going. Maybe once you get here you can contribute some ideas on how to fix our offensive line. Or you can just keep drooling on your shirt.

[TimberBeast]

I'll make it simpler. Old MSU is about whining and complaining, no matter how good things are, about what's seen as being wrong. It's never about celebrating what is good. I remember New Year's Eve 1999. We had just cemented only the 2nd 10 win season in our history but most of the talk was about why we lost the two we lost, not about winning 10. It's time, for perhaps the first time in our history, we tried a different path.

Yeah, no. That is complete nonsense. Not real. If anything at all you can say that is being a fan of any sports team.

[Todd4State]

I'll make it simpler. Old MSU is about whining and complaining, no matter how good things are, about what's seen as being wrong. It's never about celebrating what is good. I remember New Year's Eve 1999. We had just cemented only the 2nd 10 win season in our history but most of the talk was about why we lost the two we lost, not about winning 10. It's time, for perhaps the first time in our history, we tried a different path.

WTF are you talking about? Most of the talk about that team is how good that season was. I think the problem is you think you see the big picture when you really see something you made up in your head.

[SDDawg]

High expectations is actually the opposite of "old MSU" in my mind. No one is cheering on a Liberty Bowl, they want to see something better and so do our coaches. Looking like Nashville, unfortunately... and I think it's good to be a little pissed about that. Shows the program and fan base is moving forward.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

I'll make it simpler. Old MSU is about whining and complaining, no matter how good things are, about what's seen as being wrong. It's never about celebrating what is good. I remember New Year's Eve 1999. We had just cemented only the 2nd 10 win season in our history but most of the talk was about why we lost the two we lost, not about winning 10. It's time, for perhaps the first time in our history, we tried a different path.

I'm still waiting to hear about these coaches MSU had that were building something, progressing, but were then fired or run off before the fruits of the hard work could be seen...

[BrunswickDawg]

Show me a coach at MSU that has been given 4-5 years, and during that time has been building something then all the sudden gets fired before completion when signs of progression and glory days ahead have been seen....
Jackie was damn close in '96. The Bobby Wallace smoke was thick. If it wasn't for the Bama win, he was gone. You could also argue that Bob Tyler and maybe Felker fit that bill.

Eta - not defending, just looking for examples

[Liverpooldawg]

WTF are you talking about? Most of the talk about that team is how good that season was. I think the problem is you think you see the big picture when you really see something you made up in your head.

Memories are short, or nonexistent.

[TimberBeast]

High expectations is actually the opposite of "old MSU" in my mind. No one is cheering on a Liberty Bowl, they want to see something better and so do our coaches. Looking like Nashville, unfortunately... and I think it's good to be a little pissed about that. Shows the program and fan base is moving forward.

That's why I asked because I thought that's what he meant by old MSU. What he's actually saying is absurd.

[Liverpooldawg]

Jackie was damn close in '96. The Bobby Wallace smoke was thick. If it wasn't for the Bama win, he was gone. You could also argue that Bob Tyler and maybe Felker fit that bill.

Exactly.

[smootness]

I'll make it simpler. Old MSU is about whining and complaining, no matter how good things are, about what's seen as being wrong. It's never about celebrating what is good. I remember New Year's Eve 1999. We had just cemented only the 2nd 10 win season in our history but most of the talk was about why we lost the two we lost, not about winning 10. It's time, for perhaps the first time in our history, we tried a different path.

You've pretty much just described human nature.

It's partially why I've always felt more enjoyment from being a State fan than I assume most fans of programs like Bama and Florida ever feel. Because the more success you have, the more the losses sting and the more the wins are nothing but relief.

[Liverpooldawg]

That's why I asked because I thought that's what he meant by old MSU. What he's actually saying is absurd.

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

[Todd4State]

High expectations is actually the opposite of "old MSU" in my mind. No one is cheering on a Liberty Bowl, they want to see something better and so do our coaches. Looking like Nashville, unfortunately... and I think it's good to be a little pissed about that. Shows the program and fan base is moving forward.

This guy gets it. Being satisfied actually usually leads to complacency which then leads to downfall.

[CadaverDawg]

Haha, this thread backfired. Lol

[Todd4State]

Haha, this thread backfired. Lol

That's only because we don't see the big pic...uh hallucination.

[Liverpooldawg]

You've pretty much just described human nature.

It's partially why I've always felt more enjoyment from being a State fan than I assume most fans of programs like Bama and Florida ever feel. Because the more success you have, the more the losses sting and the more the wins are nothing but relief.
Yep. Until my we overcome it we will always be what we have been.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Jackie was damn close in '96. The Bobby Wallace smoke was thick. If it wasn't for the Bama win, he was gone. You could also argue that Bob Tyler and maybe Felker fit that bill.

Eta - not defending, just looking for examples

Felker isn't even close, his ass was given 5 years, and at the end he had a 5-28 conference record. He never won more than 2 conference games in a single season, and that was in his first season, the others he only won one or zero. You have to win conference games, plain and simple...

Bob Tyler was killed by the NCAA...he was tainted after that, so it was probably for the better for MSU to part ways, all other schools had to say was "Don't go play for Tyler, he's a cheater and your wins won't count"

[Liverpooldawg]

Haha, this thread backfired. Lol

Actually it hasn't. It's what I expected but it's what I wanted to get out there. No surprise that YOU though that.

[Todd4State]

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

So, you KNOW how to get us to a top 10 team level? And I presume this includes blindly following a coach that pissed away LSU with horrific clock management and lets his friend but together an o-line that just allowed 9 sacks? Do tell.

[Liverpooldawg]

Felker isn't even close, his ass was given 5 years, and at the end he had a 5-28 conference record. He never won more than 2 conference games in a single season, and that was in his first season, the others he only won one or zero. You have to win conference games, plain and simple...

Bob Tyler was killed by the NCAA...he was tainted after that, so it was probably for the better for MSU to part ways, all other schools had to say was "Don't go play for Tyler, he's a cheater and your wins won't count"

You need to go back and look at Felkers last year and what JWS said about it. The NCAA stuff wasn't what really did Tyker in. That's a common misconception. Typical.

[CadaverDawg]

Actually it hasn't. It's what I expected but it's what I wanted to get out there. No surprise that YOU though that.

Haha, by all means keep going...I'm enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself. Again.

And I'm not surprised that you pick out my comment out of all 50 comments going against your crazy viewpoint, to respond to. Please, continue...

[Dawg61]

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.

Hope your knowing of what it takes to get there includes how to improve an OL that just gave up 9 sacks cause that's what all of us are focusing on. You're focusing on Rocky Felker. We are trying to improve our OL.

[CadaverDawg]

So, you KNOW how to get us to a top 10 team level? And I presume this includes blindly following a coach that pissed away LSU with horrific clock management and lets his friend but together an o-line that just allowed 9 sacks? Do tell.


He's talking about a high school team. The same team that he admitted basically threw in the towel any year they didn't have a great OL. Didn't call different plays...just kept ramming that square peg into the round hole and threw their hands up Bc the OL wasn't great.

-his words, not mine.

What he forgets is that you don't recruit in highschool. You're dealt a hand, and you work with it. And his best high school coach ever couldn't adjust, so no good coach should have to. They just have to hope they have a dominant OL or else they will suck.

That's the cliffs notes version of his "experience". But when they had a great OL, they were unstoppable.

[BrunswickDawg]

High expectations with no real idea how to get there is what I'm talking about. I probably have higher expectations than most of you right now. I also know what it will take to actually get there. Maybe because I've been involved in doing it on another level I have a different perspective. That level isn't the same in many ways, but it IS the same in some.
I worked in historic preservation for 20 years and managed a 35 building national landmark for 10. To manage it, we worked off a 20 year master plan. We established a long term goal and vision, and broke groups of accomplishments into plateaus. To get to the goal, we had to move up to each plateau - and knew we would have setbacks along the way. It was kind of like building a pyramid. Establish foundation, lay the first course, and work your way up. Building a real football program - which have never been able to do - means understanding you will have plateaus. The key is recognizing it and doing what it takes to get to the next level.

[Liverpooldawg]

So, you KNOW how to get us to a top 10 team level? And I presume this includes blindly following a coach that pissed away LSU with horrific clock management and lets his friend but together an o-line that just allowed 9 sacks? Do tell.

No, I'm telling you I watched a program (from the inside) go from absolute total historical crap (I played for it on that level) to winning it all on its level, more than once. I've watched it remain near the top. It takes a good coach/coaches and it takes consistency and continuity over time. It takes consistent and mostly unquestioning support. That's something MSU football has never enjoyed.!

[CadaverDawg]

Hope your knowing of what it takes to get there includes how to improve an OL that just gave up 9 sacks cause that's what all of us are focusing on. You're focusing on Rocky Felker. We are trying to improve our OL.


C'mon Mane. Dont be "Old MSU". ***

[Liverpooldawg]

Haha, by all means keep going...I'm enjoying watching you make a fool of yourself. Again.

And I'm not surprised that you pick out my comment out of all 50 comments going against your crazy viewpoint, to respond to. Please, continue...
It shouldn't be a surprise. You embody what I think is wrong with our support. You should have that figured out by now.

[CadaverDawg]

It shouldn't be a surprise. You embody what I think is wrong with our support.

Haha don't get mad at me...you're the one that revealed your ignorance by starting this thread. I'm just enjoying the show.

Oh, and I'll accept a "thank you" on behalf of the "New MSU" crowd, for Ben Howland and Dan Mullen and John Cohen.

"You're welcome"

Sincerely,

NEW MSU

[Charlie_Sheen420]

You need to go back and look at Felkers last year and what JWS said about it. The NCAA stuff wasn't what really did Tyker in. That's a common misconception. Typical.

There was nothing about his last year that pointed to them progressing the next year. You are judged based on your wins and losses as a coach, and in the SEC you better start winning your conference games especially in year 5, guess how many Felker won that year? One! One out of six....yeah he is really worth keeping around for another year, maybe he would have gotten 2 in 1991! Tie his record he had his first year! Instead he was let go, and here comes ole Jackie...that seemed to work out pretty well. When you know a turd is a turd, you have to flush it, plain and simple, move on and see if you have better luck with another coach...

Pretty much every coach at MSU has been given a fair amount of time and games to be judged on before any decision was made to let them go....

[CadaverDawg]

There was nothing about his last year that pointed to them progressing the next year. You are judged based on your wins and losses as a coach, and in the SEC you better start winning your conference games especially in year 5, guess how many Felker won that year? One! One out of six....yeah he is really worth keeping around for another year, maybe he would have gotten 2 in 1991! Tie his record he had his first year! Instead he was let go, and here comes ole Jackie...that seemed to work out pretty well. When you know a turd is a turd, you have to flush it, plain and simple, move on and see if you have better luck with another coach...

Pretty much every coach at MSU has been given a fair amount of time and games to be judged on before any decision was made to let them go....

Boom

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/e/e7/Boom!.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140701025621

[Liverpooldawg]

I worked in historic preservation for 20 years and managed a 35 building national landmark for 10. To manage it, we worked off a 20 year master plan. We established a long term goal and vision, and broke groups of accomplishments into plateaus. To get to the goal, we had to move up to each plateau - and knew we would have setbacks along the way. It was kind of like building a pyramid. Establish foundation, lay the first course, and work your way up. Building a real football program - which have never been able to do - means understanding you will have plateaus. The key is recognizing it and doing what it takes to get to the next level.

I agree. It takes a consistent guiding leadership to do that wouldn't you agree? I think Mullen is the best chance we have had for that in my lifetime and that includes Jackie. I've never felt that way about any MSU coach in any sport. That includes Williams, Polk, Sherril, Cohen, and Stansbury. It also includes Howland. He is killing it in recruiting and he is going to win big soon. He is also 60. Mullen has a chance to establish a true dynasty if we can keep him. What he has done here is remarkable. Don't believe me ( and why should you)? Listen to fans of other programs and the talking heads. We see it through maroon glasses and typical fan over expectations. If we ruin this chance with a good, young coach we will deserve what we will get.

[sleepy dawg]

WTF are you talking about? Most of the talk about that team is how good that season was. I think the problem is you think you see the big picture when you really see something you made up in your head.

Says the guy who complains about uniforms before anybody's even seen them... yeah, you don't whine and complain... never have. especially not with every post for the past 2 years, regardless of sport.

[wasabaka]

You need to go back and look at Felkers last year and what JWS said about it. The NCAA stuff wasn't what really did Tyker in. That's a common misconception. Typical.

Do tell, for those of us who were born during the tail end/slightly after the Tyler era.

Serious inquiry.

[Liverpooldawg]

There was nothing about his last year that pointed to them progressing the next year. You are judged based on your wins and losses as a coach, and in the SEC you better start winning your conference games especially in year 5, guess how many Felker won that year? One! One out of six....yeah he is really worth keeping around for another year, maybe he would have gotten 2 in 1991! Tie his record he had his first year! Instead he was let go, and here comes ole Jackie...that seemed to work out pretty well. When you know a turd is a turd, you have to flush it, plain and simple, move on and see if you have better luck with another coach...

Pretty much every coach at MSU has been given a fair amount of time and games to be judged on before any decision was made to let them go....

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree. Felker was about three plays away from 7 wins and a bowl his last year. Jackie always said we were very close and Rocky left him a good team. I agree they were all given a fair amount of time before we let them go. Have you not figured out yet that that ain't what I'm talking about? Good lord.

[Todd4State]

No, I'm telling you I watched a program (from the inside) go from absolute total historical crap (I played for it on that level) to winning it all on its level, more than once. I've watched it remain near the top. It takes a good coach/coaches and it takes consistency and continuity over time. It takes consistent and mostly unquestioning support. That's something MSU football has never enjoyed.!

We've also never enjoyed the cash flow from the SEC Nework until a couple of years ago which totally changed our program along with the emergence of the Power 5 conferences which basically took out USM as a compeitior for in state talent once and for all.

What you are talking about is sunshine and unicorns. There is NO coach that we have had in the past 40 years that even comes close to fitting the description of what you are saying is our "historical problem". The closest is Felker- and we replaced him with Sherrill who was a BIG name at that time and would be about like us hiring someone like Bobby Petrino today. Too bad we didn't give Rockey that extra year to maybe go 6-5 at best.**

We're telling you that what is in your head doesn't exist. Still waiting on YOU to provide a coaching example of what you are talking about.

[Liverpooldawg]

Haha don't get mad at me...you're the one that revealed your ignorance by starting this thread. I'm just enjoying the show.

Oh, and I'll accept a "thank you" on behalf of the "New MSU" crowd, for Ben Howland and Dan Mullen and John Cohen.

"You're welcome"

Sincerely,

NEW MSU
Why would I be mad at you? I love everything you post. Haven't you figured that out yet? Everybody who lobbies for progress needs a foil to help get their message out. You are mine. Keep up the good work! By all means follow up every post I make.

[Todd4State]

Says the guy who complains about uniforms before anybody's even seen them... yeah, you don't whine and complain... never have. especially not with every post for the past 2 years, regardless of sport.

Well, that was a random.

I never side I don't complain. And I thought the white helmets sucked. Glad you liked them though.

[Todd4State]

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree. Felker was about three plays away from 7 wins and a bowl his last year. Jackie always said we were very close and Rocky left him a good team. I agree they were all given a fair amount of time before we let them go. Have you not figured out yet that that ain't what I'm talking about? Good lord.

Like when he went for the tie against Auburn instead of the win and got the extra point blocked? THAT was why he got fired. He couldn't coach and would have no doubt underachieved in 1991. Keeping him around wouldn't have fixed that.

[Liverpooldawg]

We've also never enjoyed the cash flow from the SEC Nework until a couple of years ago which totally changed our program along with the emergence of the Power 5 conferences which basically took out USM as a compeitior for in state talent once and for all.

What you are talking about is sunshine and unicorns. There is NO coach that we have had in the past 40 years that even comes close to fitting the description of what you are saying is our "historical problem". The closest is Felker- and we replaced him with Sherrill who was a BIG name at that time and would be about like us hiring someone like Bobby Petrino today. Too bad we didn't give Rockey that extra year to maybe go 6-5 at best.**

We're telling you that what is in your head doesn't exist. Still waiting on YOU to provide a coaching example of what you are talking about.

Oh it exists. I provided examples. You are another perfect example of it. As such I would expect you to deny it.

[Liverpooldawg]

Like when he went for the tie against Auburn instead of the win and got the extra point blocked? THAT was why he got fired. He couldn't coach and would have no doubt underachieved in 1991. Keeping him around wouldn't have fixed that.

Go argue with JWS.

[CadaverDawg]

Why would I be mad at you? I love everything you post. Haven't you figured that out yet? Everybody who lobbies for progress needs a foil to help get their message out. You are mine. Keep up the good work! By all means follow up every post I make.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/michael-jordan-laugh.gif

[Liverpooldawg]

Well, that was a random.

I never side I don't complain. And I thought the white helmets sucked. Glad you liked them though.

Your arguments, and this goes for a lot of folks here, would carry more weight if you ever did something besides complain.

[wasabaka]

Do tell, for those of us who were born during the tail end/slightly after the Tyler era.

Serious inquiry.

Pls respond

[Liverpooldawg]

Do tell, for those of us who were born during the tail end/slightly after the Tyler era.

Serious inquiry.

Tyler could have kept the head coaches job. It was his to keep. What wasn't his was continuing to be the athletic director as well as the football coach. He wouldn't accept the split. He was urged to take that stand by several of his "brother coaches". He was the only one that lost his job over it. They all accepted it, after what happend to him. That is what I have always understood to be what happened. Perhaps others have better info.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree. Felker was about three plays away from 7 wins and a bowl his last year. Jackie always said we were very close and Rocky left him a good team. I agree they were all given a fair amount of time before we let them go. Have you not figured out yet that that ain't what I'm talking about? Good lord.

No one on here is saying we need to start looking around or that Dan Mullen isn't the answer and we need another coach, what we are all saying is that Dan Mullen has some things in his coaching that have been present for some time now that he needs to fix and improve on if we are going to continue to get better and get to the next level. It is maddening to see Mullen do the same things or make the same mistakes in games for a few years now, it's literally insane to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. We do need to be critical of Mullen, plain and simple. If we aren't and we are just supposed to be happy with him having a winning record and being mid-pack then guess what is going to happen? He's just going to sit back and collect 4 mil a year knowing he can just "win some, lose some" and just do the same ole same ole. That will eventually turn into losing seasons, and all the progress that was made will have been lost. Criticism is needed to drive people to try and correct their mistakes and get better, because if you are not adapting and evolving to get better at what you do, everyone else will be and you will be left in the dust, and it will be hard to catch up. If we all sunshine pump Dan, then he will not work hard to shut us all up. When he is pretty much able to tell us all to STFU, that means he's doing a damn good coaching job. He is a damn good coach, and I love him at State, but he needs to improve and quit making some of the same mistakes he has made in the past, or we will forever be a plateau and forever be a mid-packer or worse.

Tonight we faced the gold standard of college football, a way to measure our football team and coach, and we were beaten 31-6 at home. Last year we lost in Tuscaloosa 25-20. It's aggravating to see that we didn't even make it a competitive game after last year, and it means Mullen has some things to fix and improve on, or else we could be in some serious trouble...

[Todd4State]

Your arguments, and this goes for a lot of folks here, would carry more weight if you ever did something besides complain.

Right. And your would carry weight if you could actually back up your sunshine pumping. Which you have yet to do despite proclaiming that "IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!"

Then again, maybe you should pay more attention to what I "complain" about since I have been spot on for the most part this year.

[Todd4State]

No one on here is saying we need to start looking around or that Dan Mullen isn't the answer and we need another coach, what we are all saying is that Dan Mullen has some things in his coaching that have been present for some time now that he needs to fix and improve on if we are going to continue to get better and get to the next level. It is maddening to see Mullen do the same things or make the same mistakes in games for a few years now, it's literally insane to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. We do need to be critical of Mullen, plain and simple. If we aren't and we are just supposed to be happy with him having a winning record and being mid-pack then guess what is going to happen? He's just going to sit back and collect 4 mil a year knowing he can just "win some, lose some" and just do the same ole same ole. That will eventually turn into losing seasons, and all the progress that was made will have been lost. Criticism is needed to drive people to try and correct their mistakes and get better, because if you are not adapting and evolving to get better at what you do, everyone else will be and you will be left in the dust, and it will be hard to catch up. If we all sunshine pump Dan, then he will not work hard to shut us all up. When he is pretty much able to tell us all to STFU, that means he's doing a damn good coaching job. He is a damn good coach, and I love him at State, but he needs to improve and quit making some of the same mistakes he has made in the past, or we will forever be a plateau and forever be a mid-packer or worse.

Tonight we faced the gold standard of college football, a way to measure our football team and coach, and we were beaten 31-6 at home. Last year we lost in Tuscaloosa 25-20. It's aggravating to see that we didn't even make it a competitive game after last year, and it means Mullen has some things to fix and improve on, or else we could be in some serious trouble...

BOOM! SPOT ON!

No one is asking for Dan to be fired. All we want is his o-line coach to be fired and for Dan to learn how to not screw up the end of games like LSU.

[NCDawg]

BOOM! SPOT ON!

No one is asking for Dan to be fired. All we want is his o-line coach to be fired and for Dan to learn how to not screw up the end of games like LSU.

I agree, although I doubt he will fire his friend and fellow Yankee.

[Todd4State]

Go argue with JWS.

Jackie was being nice.

[Todd4State]

I agree, although I doubt he will fire his friend and fellow Yankee.

And I agree with you. I think we're stuck with Hevesey for now. The only possible way out I can see- and it's a stretch- would be to move Sallach to the office and then Hevesey to TE which he coached at Florida I believe. And then bring in a new o-line coach. Talk about awkward.

[Liverpooldawg]

Right. And your would carry weight if you could actually back up your sunshine pumping. Which you have yet to do despite proclaiming that "IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!"

Then again, maybe you should pay more attention to what I "complain" about since I have been spot on for the most part this year.
Ok, how about we went 10-3 last year and are sitting at 7-3 right now. That is epic for us. You seem to think it's a disaster.

[wasabaka]

Tyler could have kept the head coaches job. It was his to keep. What wasn't his was continuing to be the athletic director as well as the football coach. He wouldn't accept the split. He was urged to take that stand by several of his "brother coaches". He was the only one that lost his job over it. They all accepted it, after what happend to him. That is what I have always understood to be what happened. Perhaps others have better info.

So, for my understanding, he wanted to be both AD and HBC, and somebody didn't want that so he was ousted? Just curious. Dad always talked about how he thought Tyler was a good coach, but didn't elaborate. There was also some NCAA trouble as well, right?

For the record, I know I don't post much, but I am genuinely curious about this period in MSU history. I've never talked much to my dad about it (he graduated from State in 74).

I think Dan has elevated this program far beyond anything I've ever dreamed, but there is still a ton of work to do. We have to, at some point, beat someone who is truly better than us, i.e. Dan needs to grow a pair.

[Liverpooldawg]

Jackie was being nice.

Lol. Maybe so. I always thought Jackie called it like he saw it. He might not have been correct (2001) but he was never afraid to let his opinion be known. For the record I wanted to fire Felker too. He was the guy that cemented me as a MSU guy so it wasn't easy to be on that side. In hindsight I will always wonder what would have happened had we given him that next year. My argument has never been about when we actually fired a coach ( other than Stans (timing there,not the actual firing)). It's been when we have turned on them. That and the actual firing have never been at the same time.

[Liverpooldawg]

So, for my understanding, he wanted to be both AD and HBC, and somebody didn't want that so he was ousted? Just curious. Dad always talked about how he thought Tyler was a good coach, but didn't elaborate. There was also some NCAA trouble as well, right?

For the record, I know I don't post much, but I am genuinely curious about this period in MSU history. I've never talked much to my dad about it (he graduated from State in 74).

I think Dan has elevated this program far beyond anything I've ever dreamed, but there is still a ton of work to do. We have to, at some point, beat someone who is truly better than us, i.e. Dan needs to grow a pair.

That's always been my understanding. I think there was some pressure from the NCAA for that. They were pushing that for everyone and obviously they got their way because I don't think there is anywhere where a program coach is the AD now. In the SEC at the time that was the usual though. The NCAA used our trouble to force it on us.


As for Dan, "growing a pair" in this context is easier said than done. Finding better offensive linemen on a consistent basis would probably do more to help there than anything.

[War Machine Dawg]

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree. Felker was about three plays away from 7 wins and a bowl his last year. Jackie always said we were very close and Rocky left him a good team. I agree they were all given a fair amount of time before we let them go. Have you not figured out yet that that ain't what I'm talking about? Good lord.

So The Kang not throwing one of the most beloved figures in MSU sports under the bus is proof Felker was actually a good coach? You're a damn idiot, because Felker's career coaching record says he sucked ass as a HC.

[wasabaka]

That's always been my understanding. I think there was some pressure from the NCAA for that. They were pushing that for everyone and obviously they got their way because I don't think there is anywhere where a program coach is the AD now. In the SEC at the time that was the usual though. The NCAA used our trouble to force it on us.

As for Dan, "growing a pair" in this context is easier said than done. Finding better offensive linemen on a consistent basis would probably do more to help there than anything.

Elaborate on the NCAA trouble that they used to force MSU's hand on Tyler, please.

Agreed. We've got to get better on the OL and RB. Yesterday. QB and WR are obviously solid this year. DL is above average, LB is solid, and DBs are average after being ravaged by injuries. OL and RB are our most glaring weaknesses right now, with the spotlight on the OL.

[wasabaka]

So The Kang not throwing one of the most beloved figures in MSU sports under the bus is proof Felker was actually a good coach? You're a damn idiot, because Felker's career coaching record says he sucked ass as a HC.

I agree with this. I love Rocky because he is a Dawg, but my earliest full season memory as a State fan is Tech and Ten.

[Liverpooldawg]

Elaborate on the NCAA trouble that they used to force MSU's hand on Tyler, please.

Agreed. We've got to get better on the OL and RB. Yesterday. QB and WR are obviously solid this year. DL is above average, LB is solid, and DBs are average after being ravaged by injuries. OL and RB are our most glaring weaknesses right now, with the spotlight on the OL.

Oh come on man. I think you know this story as well as I do. Google it if not.

[Liverpooldawg]

So The Kang not throwing one of the most beloved figures in MSU sports under the bus is proof Felker was actually a good coach? You're a damn idiot, because Felker's career coaching record says he sucked ass as a HC.

I never argued otherwise about his record. I was 100% behind the firing at the time. I just have always wondered what would have happened if he had had one more year. He was close to turning the corner that last year.