Manziel just representing the problem with the 'state' schools.....

[Goat Holder]

....or technically, the schools that aren't traditional winners ie year in year out. Yeah, Texas A&M/Auburn may not be on the MSU level of 'woe-is-us', but you get where I'm going with this. I watched the video that FlabLoser posted, did you notice at the end it said Saban-Manziel-McCarron-Sumlin? There's the issue.....Manziel is bigger than Sumlin and Texas A&M. That shit doesn't happen at Alabama under Saban. It's Saban's team. No player is bigger than the program, and they've been able to maintain it. Texas A&M is imploding from within, just like Auburn did when Chizik was technically not in charge the program. Newton was.

Always been a problem with the star players going to the second rate schools. For whatever reason, the stars think the school is lucky to have them. They don't feel that way at Alabama. It's a valid point, and that's why you see teams like MSU and Ole Miss not dealing with success very well.

I don't know, just something I've noticed.

[ShotgunDawg]

I fail to see how MSU isn't dealing with success well... We have had very little attrition, suspensions, or arrests under Mullen.

The real problem isn't the school, what your trying to say is that coaches with massive amounts of depth can more afford to be hard on their players and some coaches, without a ton of depth, don't have enough backbone to discipline their players.

My favorite quote on this subject is by Steelers coach Mike Tomlin, "I tolerate you till I can replace you."

This is why Saban and Calipari succeed. They have enough depth and good players that they can afford to treat the top tier players like everyone else. In turn the top tier players turn out to be better.

However, I think Mullen has done a very good job of this, without always having players to replace the ones he disciplined. Fletcher Cox was suspended for the opening game against Memphis two years ago. Don't forget that.

[The Croom Diaries]

Does FSU have this problem? Clemson? LSU? or even MSU? Virginia Tech? Oklahoma State? I think you've drawn a conclusion from two schools who were mired in 7-8 wins seasons but they got a superstar QB that made them cycle up to a national contender and so that is the guy they point to for the success rather than the coach. I don't think it has anything to do with being the engineering/ag school in the state.

[SignalToNoise]

I don't think I can buy into your theory 100%, but I agree on what you're saying about Saban and Alabama. He has total control of that program. If someone is acting a fool is going to deal with promptly. You are right when you say that no one is bigger than the program there.

[Goat Holder]

I'm looking general, BIG PICTURE. You can shoot 100 holes in my argument if you take it on a case by case basis. And LSU doesn't count, they are the big thing in their state. Nor does FSU, who is in a state big enough to support 10 schools.

But Shotgun you are correct that leadership is the main thing. But it just so happens that the 'have' schools get the leaders more often.

And yes, Mullen is doing it better than any other coach we've ever had, including King Jackie.

And regarding Calipari and Saban, it's not that they just have the better players. They had to get that reputation somewhere. Those guys are great coaches and know what they are doing.

[The Croom Diaries]

Well you said 'state' schools. That would mean Georgia Tech, FSU, Auburn, MSU, A&M etc. And if FSU is in a state big enough to support 10 schools I'd have to imagine A&M is too. Not only are they in the massively talent-rich state of Texas, but they have the 3rd or 4th biggest school in the country and money coming out of their ears.

[TopDog58]

From reading the article, I just think the Manziel family is comprised of idiots. Seriously, what kind of parent brings "carloads" of memorabilia for their kid to sign when you know he's having a problem. Just say no. Have some balls and tell people to **** off. Sounds like the parents don't want to be part of the solution in helping poor little Johnathan through his crises.

[Goat Holder]

OK I give you Florida State. But they are far enough away from Florida (plus in another conference) that they don't have to operate in the 'flagship' shadow. Back to the point at hand. Texas A&M and the rest that you name have to constantly deal with the 'big brother' trying to keep them down.

Really the only example I can think of where the state school has more history than the flagship is Clemson and South Carolina. But now that Carolina has decided to do something about it, they are quickly eclipsing them. Plus, they do a little of that meddling too, in trying to keep Clemson out of the SEC for long.