Yall see where Bucky's trying to make it hard for Conner & Engram to leave?

[CadaverDawg]

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/ole-miss-football/ole-miss-coach-hugh-freeze-expects-juniors-return-next-season/

Wouldn't shock me if they had not even talked to him about it. You can tell he's trying hard to persuade Conner to return. Another sign that Hugh is worried about Hugh, and only Hugh.

They may very well want to return...but to act like he's had these discussions mid season says 1 of 2 things...

A) Why is he talking to them mid year about NFL? Can you say Distraction?

B) He hasn't talked to them about it, but if he plants that seed it makes Conner & Engram question themselves and start thinking maybe Hugh's right.

Either way, Bucky shouldn't be talking about it with 3 games left. Rookie

[msstate7]

Freeze better hope they come back. Om is losing a ton and have fsu, bama, and Georgia in September next season

[Leroy Jenkins]

Conner said he and his parents will talk about it. Still has to have surgery after season, he's bone-on-bone in that knee right now and he had swelling drained after Arky game.

Kieper has Engram very high on the TE board, possibly #1 at the position.

[ShotgunDawg]

Bucky is such an idiot. The NFL hasn't even given their draft feedback to the players yet.

Honestly, Bucky should stay out of this and just advise an help his players. To say "I expect them back" is wrong IMO and undermines the player and what's potentially best for him. Then to say that to the media, is completely undermining the player's ability to make his own decisions and is putting wrongful pressure.

Freeze almost says this stuff in a way that would make you think he believes that the players owe him or someone something.

[Coach34]

Both would be idiots to return- coming back will not raise their draft status

[CadaverDawg]

Bucky is such an idiot. The NFL hasn't even given their draft feedback to the players yet.

Honestly, Bucky should stay out of this and just advise an help his players. To say "I expect them back" is wrong IMO and undermines the player and what's potentially best for him. Then to say that to the media, is completely undermining the player's ability to make his own decisions and is putting wrongful pressure.

Freeze almost says this stuff in a way that would make you think he believes that the players owe him or someone something.

My thoughts exactly

[Todd4State]

Don't be surprised when they try to make a hard run to keep Nkemdiche, Treadwell, and Tunsil as well. They won't all stay but Ole Miss has a history of doing everything they can to keep guys for another year. See Oher and Eli as exhibit A and B.

Basically 2016 for them hinges on how many of those five (Nkemdiche, Treadwell, Tunsil, Conner, and Engram) that they can keep. If they lose them all, they know that they are in for a long year.

If they have any sense they will take the millions from the NFL and not the 7-11 salary from #TheNetwork.

[SDDawg]

Engram is gone, that's been a done deal.

If Bucky had quit lighting up CJ's phone for a minute, he might have built a relationship with Conner which he has failed to do. I'm a little worried about Conner honestly, great player but sounds like they've used and abused him over there and I'd be really surprised if he sticks around for another year of it. I think he'll pull it together, get back to the best health he can, and then go in middle rounds due to the injury issues.

[Todd4State]

Bucky is such an idiot. The NFL hasn't even given their draft feedback to the players yet.

Honestly, Bucky should stay out of this and just advise an help his players. To say "I expect them back" is wrong IMO and undermines the player and what's potentially best for him. Then to say that to the media, is completely undermining the player's ability to make his own decisions and is putting wrongful pressure.

Freeze almost says this stuff in a way that would make you think he believes that the players owe him or someone something.

Exactly. And compare that to Dan who I'm sure would love to have Josh and McKinney right now. Dan could have pressured them to come back and maybe somewhat justifiably so since neither was a sure thing first round pick- but I think Dan also wanted what was best for those players.

[SDDawg]

Both would be idiots to return- coming back will not raise their draft status

Especially with Conner, he only has downside now with the injury issues.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

If either get top 2 rd grades they're both gone.

[Todd4State]

Engram is gone, that's been a done deal.

If Bucky had quit lighting up CJ's phone for a minute, he might have built a relationship with Conner which he has failed to do. I'm a little worried about Conner honestly, great player but sounds like they've used and abused him over there and I'd be really surprised if he sticks around for another year of it. I think he'll pull it together, get back to the best health he can, and then go in middle rounds due to the injury issues.

If Conner gets drafted by a NFL team in April, he will immediately make at least a million dollars. If he stays around, there is a chance he gets hurt again and he loses a year of earning potential. And while they are keeping it quiet for now- I'm pretty sure that Conner was the player that the NCAA was looking at in the Wayne County scandal which has yet to come to a conclusion. Meaning there is a risk that Conner could be ruled ineligible.

[smootness]

If I were Engram, I'd probably leave. If I were Conner, it would depend on where the NFL has him right now. I could definitely see him coming back, being fully healthy, and raising his stock next year. But if he's projected as a 1-2 round pick, I'd go.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Engram has had a really disappointing year. If he gets a good draft grade he should bolt.

[ShotgunDawg]

The more I think about it, what an asshole Bucky is being. Who the 17 does he think he is?

He's playing the guilt card here by laying out his expectations in hopes of making these guys feel bad about leaving. He's only thinking about his selfish ass self, like he always does and is making preimtive attempt to make the kids the bad guys if they leave.

What an asshole. He has no clue what his job is.

[RougeDawg]

The only people who don't know this solid fact about Bucky are either Bearsharts or Braindead.

Him only being worried about him.

He is the Jimmy Swaggart of college football. Can someone fark/gif Bucky as Jimmy or both of them together? That would be amazing. Two snake oil salesman using the cloak of religion to accomplish devious things.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

My question is what will Kelly do? I know the NFL doesn't have a large body of work to look at, etc. But thinking on his end.....he loses his best WR, best OL and best defensive players and all of a sudden his team doesn't look too hot going into next year. What is he thinking? Uncle Jim, make some calls and get me out of here.....could be interesting.

[smootness]

The more I think about it, what an asshole Bucky is being. Who the 17 does he think he is?

He's playing the guilt card here by laying out his expectations in hopes of making these guys feel bad about leaving. He's only thinking about his selfish ass self, like he always does and is making preimtive attempt to make the kids the bad guys if they leave.

What an asshole. He has no clue what his job is.

I'll be honest, I know we like to kill the guy (and perhaps deservedly so), but I don't really see that in this article. It seems like he's basing this off conversations he's had with both guys. I mean, sure, he could just be lying, but it seems like just an observation.

I think at least 1 will end up going pro.

[Todd4State]

My question is what will Kelly do? I know the NFL doesn't have a large body of work to look at, etc. But thinking on his end.....he loses his best WR, best OL and best defensive players and all of a sudden his team doesn't look too hot going into next year. What is he thinking? Uncle Jim, make some calls and get me out of here.....could be interesting.

I wouldn't be surprised if they cut Kelly and ride the Shea Patterson train next year. I'm sure he has had an incident or two that we either do or don't know about that they can release at their convenience to justify cutting ties with him.

[Todd4State]

I'll be honest, I know we like to kill the guy (and perhaps deservedly so), but I don't really see that in this article. It seems like he's basing this off conversations he's had with both guys. I mean, sure, he could just be lying, but it seems like just an observation.

I think at least 1 will end up going pro.

There is no way that Conner coming back and NOT making a million dollars is in his best interest. Same for Engram really.

[smootness]

There is no way that Conner coming back and NOT making a million dollars is in his best interest. Same for Engram really.

That's just not necessarily true.

First, if you're taken in the 3rd round, you'll get a signing bonus of around $800,000. If you're taken at the end of the 1st round, you'll get a signing bonus of around $4 million. That difference alone more than makes up for any money you didn't make in year 1 of the contract.

Second, people always dismiss the readiness of a guy entering the NFL. People always reduce the argument solely to money. Despite the fact that it is not at all a guarantee you'll make more money by leaving earlier, there's also a chance you're not as ready for the NFL, which reduces the length of your career, your success, and ultimately, the prospects for bigger future contracts.

So yes, returning to school can absolutely be in the best interests of a player, even if he's projected as a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

[Jack Lambert]

I Think Freeze is trying to put them on the spot but I think those two guys are going to do what they think is best for their family and not Freeze or Ole Miss. Now fi Freeze knows that the pocket book got opened up again for them then he might have some juice.

[Todd4State]

That's just not necessarily true.

First, if you're taken in the 3rd round, you'll get a signing bonus of around $800,000. If you're taken at the end of the 1st round, you'll get a signing bonus of around $4 million. That difference alone more than makes up for any money you didn't make in year 1 of the contract.

Second, people always dismiss the readiness of a guy entering the NFL. People always reduce the argument solely to money. Despite the fact that it is not at all a guarantee you'll make more money by leaving earlier, there's also a chance you're not as ready for the NFL, which reduces the length of your career, your success, and ultimately, the prospects for bigger future contracts.

So yes, returning to school can absolutely be in the best interests of a player, even if he's projected as a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

OK- excuse me. There is no way Conner and Engram coming back and NOT making 800K is in his best interests either. I'm assuming that 7-11 workers don't make 800K either- and if they do my application will be put in tomorrow and I'm taking the rest of this year off.

Not to mention that most teams are going to let a guy that they draft at worst hang around for a few seasons- thus making even more money- before they cut him. See Derek Sherrod who the Packers kept around after a horrific fracture- and then after he got released I believe he was picked up by the Chiefs. Now, I may be way off on this but I'm assuming that those NFL teams paid him. If he is on a practice squad, he makes 107K in the NFL. If he gets some NFL experience his minimum salary is going to be 435K.

Conner has had to deal with injuries this year. If he is smart, he will cash it in now rather than wait and potentially get left out next year.

[smootness]

OK- excuse me. There is no way Conner and Engram coming back and NOT making 800K is in his best interests either. I'm assuming that 7-11 workers don't make 800K either- and if they do my application will be put in tomorrow and I'm taking the rest of this year off.

Not to mention that most teams are going to let a guy that they draft at worst hang around for a few seasons- thus making even more money- before they cut him. See Derek Sherrod who the Packers kept around after a horrific fracture- and then after he got released I believe he was picked up by the Chiefs. Now, I may be way off on this but I'm assuming that those NFL teams paid him. If he is on a practice squad, he makes 107K in the NFL. If he gets some NFL experience his minimum salary is going to be 435K.

Conner has had to deal with injuries this year. If he is smart, he will cash it in now rather than wait and potentially get left out next year.

Huh? I honestly don't really understand what you're arguing unless your entire argument is that Conner could get hurt and end his career next year before ever getting to the NFL.

While that is certainly a possibility, it's not very likely at all, and it still misses my point. You said there is no way that staying for their senior year is in their best interest. That just isn't true.

There is absolutely a scenario in which either one of them comes back for his senior year and improves his draft stock. In my example, I gave you signing bonuses for 3rd round picks and 1st round picks. Yes, $800,000 is a lot of money and more than 7/11 workers make (I have no idea what you're suggesting here, unless it's that the best career hopes for Tony Conner or Evan Engram outside of football is 7/11, which is kind of absurd; and coming back and graduating would certainly help them avoid that). But you know what is a lot more than $800,000? $4 million. Which is the signing bonus for a late 1st round pick.

So, yes, they would have one additional year in the NFL. But if they get drafted in the 3rd round and could have come back and improved their stock to a late 1st round pick, it would have been a very bad decision monetarily. Because in year 1 as a late 1st round pick, they would have already made more than after 2 years as a 3rd round pick. Does that make sense?

So yes, there is absolutely some way where returning for a senior year makes sense for one or both of them. Part of it depends on where they're projected, and part of it depends on whether or not they feel like they're ready.

[Todd4State]

Huh? I honestly don't really understand what you're arguing unless your entire argument is that Conner could get hurt and end his career next year before ever getting to the NFL.
While that is certainly a possibility, it's not very likely at all, and it still misses my point. You said there is no way that staying for their senior year is in their best interest. That just isn't true.

There is absolutely a scenario in which either one of them comes back for his senior year and improves his draft stock. In my example, I gave you signing bonuses for 3rd round picks and 1st round picks. Yes, $800,000 is a lot of money and more than 7/11 workers make (I have no idea what you're suggesting here, unless it's that the best career hopes for Tony Conner or Evan Engram outside of football is 7/11, which is kind of absurd; and coming back and graduating would certainly help them avoid that). But you know what is a lot more than $800,000? $4 million. Which is the signing bonus for a late 1st round pick.

So, yes, they would have one additional year in the NFL. But if they get drafted in the 3rd round and could have come back and improved their stock to a late 1st round pick, it would have been a very bad decision monetarily. Because in year 1 as a late 1st round pick, they would have already made more than after 2 years as a 3rd round pick. Does that make sense?

So yes, there is absolutely some way where returning for a senior year makes sense for one or both of them. Part of it depends on where they're projected, and part of it depends on whether or not they feel like they're ready.

No- you got it. And as we all know Conner has been injured this year and is right now as I type this. Not to mention that Ole Miss's turf is basically the SEC equivalent of the old Philadelphia Eagles turf- I'd say that there is a better chance than normal that he gets hurt again. I also have some insight into his family situation as well from people that know the family. That adds into the risk/reward as well. See Josh Robinson even though, no Conner isn't homeless- but he certainly could and would put himself and his family in a better situation by going pro after this year.

What I am referring to when I talk about the 7/11 salary is what the Ole Miss #Network offers these players families to play for them. 30K to come back to play for Ole Miss vs. 800K in the NFL- the math is pretty simple there.

The problem with your scenario is it isn't very likely that Conner and Engram are going to increase their stock by coming back. It's simply not worth the risk because the odds are better that their stock will either stay the same or get worse since even if they do come back Ole Miss is going to be in rebuilding mode and possibly on probation.

I mean- do you REALLY believe that they are going to become first round picks next year if they came back? Conner has been consistently listed on mock drafts for years now and Engram is one of Kiper's top TE prospects. What would you do if you were them?

[smootness]

The problem with your scenario is it isn't very likely that Conner and Engram are going to increase their stock by coming back. It's simply not worth the risk because the odds are better that their stock will either stay the same or get worse since even if they do come back Ole Miss is going to be in rebuilding mode and possibly on probation.

This is a reasonable argument. Saying, 'There is no way coming back is in their best interest' is not because of course there is a way.

If I were them, I honestly don't know what I would do. There are several factors at play. One, how close am I to graduating and how much does that mean to me? Two, how much do I enjoy college? Three, how much money can I make now, and how likely is it that I can increase that by coming back? Four, do I feel like I'm ready, and could coming back help me become even more ready? Five, am I mature enough yet to handle everything that comes with being a pro athlete?

I just hate when these discussions are reduced simply to, 'Getting paid one year earlier is always the best option.' Especially when we see guy after guy become broke even after making a few million. There should be far more that goes into that decision.

[sbcmortgageman]

Don't be surprised when they try to make a hard run to keep Nkemdiche, Treadwell, and Tunsil as well. They won't all stay but Ole Miss has a history of doing everything they can to keep guys for another year. See Oher and Eli as exhibit A and B.

Basically 2016 for them hinges on how many of those five (Nkemdiche, Treadwell, Tunsil, Conner, and Engram) that they can keep. If they lose them all, they know that they are in for a long year.

If they have any sense they will take the millions from the NFL and not the 7-11 salary from #TheNetwork.

Folks in Oxford are ready for knemdiche to be gone. 0% chance he, tunsil or tread come back.

[mic]

CHF = Bud Kilmer

Conner should have that knee repaired now and get ready for the combine ..

[somebodyshotmypaw]

U

People always reduce the argument solely to money. Despite the fact that it is not at all a guarantee you'll make more money by leaving earlier, there's also a chance you're not as ready for the NFL.

Agreed. Everybody reduces it to money. Maybe the guy just likes college or has different goals. Maybe money isn't the sole driver. I remember people bashing Peyton Manning on the radio for passing up the money to come back for his senior year. But Peyton was happy. Of course I'm the poster who quit a job two years ago in order to take a different job for far less money because the new gig would offer more stability and quality of life. So far it has been a great decision. My family has really benefited in ways that money can't buy.

[PassInterference]

CHF = Bud Kilmer

Conner should have that knee repaired now and get ready for the combine ..

Yep. Conner is hurting his future by staying on the team.

[WinningIsRelentless]

That's just not necessarily true.

First, if you're taken in the 3rd round, you'll get a signing bonus of around $800,000. If you're taken at the end of the 1st round, you'll get a signing bonus of around $4 million. That difference alone more than makes up for any money you didn't make in year 1 of the contract.

Second, people always dismiss the readiness of a guy entering the NFL. People always reduce the argument solely to money. Despite the fact that it is not at all a guarantee you'll make more money by leaving earlier, there's also a chance you're not as ready for the NFL, which reduces the length of your career, your success, and ultimately, the prospects for bigger future contracts.

So yes, returning to school can absolutely be in the best interests of a player, even if he's projected as a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
With the cba you are better off getting to that second contract as quick as possible with as little amount of damage done. So really no it isn't smart to come back.

[Coach34]

Conner has the injury side of it to consider also. Another knee injury jeapordizes his NFL career before it even gets started

[Todd4State]

This is a reasonable argument. Saying, 'There is no way coming back is in their best interest' is not because of course there is a way.

If I were them, I honestly don't know what I would do. There are several factors at play. One, how close am I to graduating and how much does that mean to me? Two, how much do I enjoy college? Three, how much money can I make now, and how likely is it that I can increase that by coming back? Four, do I feel like I'm ready, and could coming back help me become even more ready? Five, am I mature enough yet to handle everything that comes with being a pro athlete?

I just hate when these discussions are reduced simply to, 'Getting paid one year earlier is always the best option.' Especially when we see guy after guy become broke even after making a few million. There should be far more that goes into that decision.

I'm saying given their situation there is no way it's in their best interest. None of the factors you listed are applicable in this situation.

[Todd4State]

Conner has the injury side of it to consider also. Another knee injury jeapordizes his NFL career before it even gets started

Not reasonable enough for smootness.

[RougeDawg]

Not reasonable enough for smootness.

How much does looking at a 4-8,5-7 2016 season play into their decisions? They are barely winning against the lower SEC teams this season ( Vandy Auburn) so who's to think they will be at or above 500 in SEC next year? Plus their OOC has a los or two mixed in. Looking at their schedule a 2-6 start is realistic, 3-5 at best. The real question is at what point do the rented mules give up because they onkynchose PM for one reason? They could very well fall apart by mid October and 2-4.

[Bubb Rubb]

cut Kelly? What makes you think they would do that? He may leave, but if he returns, he will be their QB while Patterson gets acclimated. The only risks for Kelly not being their QB next year is if he decides to leave early, or if he has more off-the-field drama.

[mic]

My question is what will Kelly do? I know the NFL doesn't have a large body of work to look at, etc. But thinking on his end.....he loses his best WR, best OL and best defensive players and all of a sudden his team doesn't look too hot going into next year. What is he thinking? Uncle Jim, make some calls and get me out of here.....could be interesting.

If Kelly isn't on the team next year it won't be because he chose to leave...
The bigger question is if Buchannan or Kincaid come back...

[deltadawg99]

Eli and Oher were different situations because of their family lives.

I would be willing to bet that Pegues is telling Tony that he needs to go this year while his draft stock is high.

[Jarius]

Who cares if they come back. They are and always will be Ole Miss. They are going to win 7 games with 5 first round draft picks. Please come back for more punishment.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

cut Kelly? What makes you think they would do that? He may leave, but if he returns, he will be their QB while Patterson gets acclimated. The only risks for Kelly not being their QB next year is if he decides to leave early, or if he has more off-the-field drama.

Or if Uncle Jim doesn't like the coaching he is getting at ole miss...

[DawgHouseUnited]

One thing that comes to my mind is development- UNM isn't known to develop players. So how much more development will they receive by staying in for another year as opposed to getting under some serious coaches that will actually help develop their talent?

[chef dixon]

Who the hell would draft Engram after this shitastic season?

Conner playing with bone on bone in that knee is pretty bold.