Can someone remind me again how Croom came to be an SEC head coaching candidate?

[Taog Redloh]

His resume from Wiki:

Alabama (GA/C, 1976)
Alabama (ILB, 1977?1981)
Alabama (OLB, 1982?1983)
Alabama (ILB, 1984?1986)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (RB, 1987?1990)
Indianapolis Colts (RB, 1991)
San Diego Chargers (RB, 1992?1996)
Detroit Lions (OC, 1997?2000)
Green Bay Packers (RB, 2001?2003)


How exactly does a resume like that, knowing what we know now, lend itself to make one an SEC head coaching candidate?

[starkvegasdawg]

Without getting this thread thrown to the political board I think the SEC office was trying to make a statement and it was our turn to bat. I've heard rumors that we were told that if we played ball that it would be taken into consideration by the NCAA when it came sanction time. Not sure that was true but our sanctions weren't that bad for what they were trying to accuse us of.

[#660000]

I seem to recall that the Alabama AD, Mal Moore, (who also was responsible for the Mike Shula hire) put Croom's name into LTs ear.

[Liverpooldawg]

Croom accomplished the #1 thing he was hired to do. Once he had done that he failed to accomplish mission #2, which was win football games.

[ScoobaDawg]

I seem to recall that the Alabama AD, Mal Moore, (who also was responsible for the Mike Shula hire) put Croom's name into LTs ear.

Sorta... Mal gave him a courtesy interview to appease the black coaches association whatever it is called. LT saw he was good enough for an interview with Bama and thus we got Croom instead of Jimbo.

[smootness]

His resume from Wiki:

Alabama (GA/C, 1976)
Alabama (ILB, 1977?1981)
Alabama (OLB, 1982?1983)
Alabama (ILB, 1984?1986)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (RB, 1987?1990)
Indianapolis Colts (RB, 1991)
San Diego Chargers (RB, 1992?1996)
Detroit Lions (OC, 1997?2000)
Green Bay Packers (RB, 2001?2003)


How exactly does a resume like that, knowing what we know now, lend itself to make one an SEC head coaching candidate?

A resume that includes a decade as an assistant at one of the top programs in college football, followed by 17 years as an NFL coach, including 4 years as an NFL OC?

Seriously?

How did Mike Shula become an SEC HC candidate? How about Phil Fulmer? Ed Orgeron?

Croom coached Barry Sanders to the best year of his career and led Ahman Green to multiple 1,200 yard seasons, including almost 1,900 yards the year before we hired him. I'm not saying he was the most obvious candidate there's been, but he was no less qualified than plenty of coaches who have been hired, especially at a school like State and especially over a decade ago.

Why would what we know now play into it?

[smootness]

Sorta... Mal gave him a courtesy interview to appease the black coaches association whatever it is called. LT saw he was good enough for an interview with Bama and thus we got Croom instead of Jimbo.

This is part of it, too. Once a guy is established as a legitimate candidate for another job, especially a job like Bama, he becomes a legitimate candidate for other jobs by default. That's just how it works.

It's funny, though, that people would question why Croom was qualified (and acknowledge he was just a courtesy candidate for the Bama job) while not questioning why Shula was qualified.

[ScoobaDawg]

This is part of it, too. Once a guy is established as a legitimate candidate for another job, especially a job like Bama, he becomes a legitimate candidate for other jobs by default. That's just how it works.

It's funny, though, that people would question why Croom was qualified (and acknowledge he was just a courtesy candidate for the Bama job) while not questioning why Shula was qualified.

Because Bama hiring a mistake who was the son of a coaching legend after the Roll Bama Roll Price incident didn't effect MSU. Its great they hired an idiot or two. Moore fixed it next time.

[drunkernhelldawg]

He was an OC in the NFL. What is being suggested here?

[smootness]

Because Bama hiring a mistake who was the son of a coaching legend after the Roll Bama Roll Price incident didn't effect MSU. Its great they hired an idiot or two. Moore fixed it next time.

But the question is how Croom came to be an SEC head coaching candidate. My point is that there have been plenty of SEC head coaches who were hired with no better track record than Croom. So why would we single Croom out?

I get this is a State message board, so we're going to talk about State coaches. A question about why we thought he was the best candidate is fine. But a question about how he came to be a candidate for an SEC HC job necessitates a look at other SEC coaching hires. When doing that, it doesn't stand out as particularly bad.

[smootness]

He was an OC in the NFL. What is being suggested here?


Exactly.

[scottycameron]

His resume from Wiki:

Alabama (GA/C, 1976)
Alabama (ILB, 1977?1981)
Alabama (OLB, 1982?1983)
Alabama (ILB, 1984?1986)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (RB, 1987?1990)
Indianapolis Colts (RB, 1991)
San Diego Chargers (RB, 1992?1996)
Detroit Lions (OC, 1997?2000)
Green Bay Packers (RB, 2001?2003)


How exactly does a resume like that, knowing what we know now, lend itself to make one an SEC head coaching candidate?


Do you really need to have that explained to you?

BTW, there's a new med out for non twenty four.

On another note, i think Crooms is the RB coach for the worst running team in the NFL. Shocker.

[scottycameron]

If you want to know the truth when Shula was hired (quickly) by Bama the Black coaches assoc went nuts because Bama basically told them to eat a ****. Slive got grilled on espn radio and basically promised the next sec coach would be black. I remember thinking oh **** listening to it, I still remember exactly where I was. We were up next and that was all she wrote. We were in no position to disagree with probation hanging over us, and we were cut a deal/break for "doin' the right thang". A lot of MSU losses and a lot of fired SEC coaches followed in the wake, LOL.
But it's all good now.

[PSYCHO(thesis)DEFENSE]

On another note, i think Crooms is the RB coach for the worst running team in the NFL. Shocker.

can't blame that on Croom. I'd rather have MSU's o-line than the Titans', and the RB our UMiss alum general manager took as the 1st overall RB in the 2014 draft has lost his job to an undrafted free agent we signed out of the same draft class. And the next best RB is don't text & drive McCluster. That said, w/ our HC being fired yesterday, I don't see anybody from the current offensive staff being retained next year. Croom is bound to land on his feet w/ that resume though.

[Jarius]

Croom had the resume to be a head coach. The problem was giving him so long to win football games. I guess we were scared to death of being labeled racists or something if we fired him too quickly, but it was painfully obvious after year 2 that he was never going to work out. We gave ourself the death penalty by hiring him. We just didn't know it yet.

[TrapGame]

Croom had the resume to be a head coach. The problem was giving him so long to win football games. I guess we were scared to death of being labeled racists or something if we fired him too quickly, but it was painfully obvious after year 2 that he was never going to work out. We gave ourself the death penalty by hiring him. We just didn't know it yet.

So, we screwed ourselves worse than anything the NCAA could have handed down as punishment for our violations. I guess the ultimate punishment by the NCAA/SEC was hiring Croom.

[smootness]

Croom had the resume to be a head coach. The problem was giving him so long to win football games. I guess we were scared to death of being labeled racists or something if we fired him too quickly, but it was painfully obvious after year 2 that he was never going to work out. We gave ourself the death penalty by hiring him. We just didn't know it yet.

There was no way we could have fired him after 2 years, especially given what he inherited. That just wasn't going to happen, no matter the race. You can make the argument we should have let him go after 3 years, but that's the only point at which we could have fired him before we did. If I remember correctly, I remember the fan base being restless after year 3, but I don't remember an overwhelming push for him to go.

We beat Alabama that year, we almost beat Georgia, we played a tough schedule that included a great WV team non-conference, and it would have still been difficult to let him go at that point. Things weren't quite as cut-throat in coaching even then as they are now, and 4 of our losses came by a combined 12 points. Everyone seemed to be at least ok with giving him the 4th year, and after we went to a bowl and he won COY that year, obviously he was getting year 5.

[Taog Redloh]

A resume that includes a decade as an assistant at one of the top programs in college football, followed by 17 years as an NFL coach, including 4 years as an NFL OC?

Seriously?
Explain going from the Lions' OC to the Packers' RB coach.

[Jarius]

There was no way we could have fired him after 2 years, especially given what he inherited. That just wasn't going to happen, no matter the race. You can make the argument we should have let him go after 3 years, but that's the only point at which we could have fired him before we did. If I remember correctly, I remember the fan base being restless after year 3, but I don't remember an overwhelming push for him to go.

We beat Alabama that year, we almost beat Georgia, we played a tough schedule that included a great WV team non-conference, and it would have still been difficult to let him go at that point. Things weren't quite as cut-throat in coaching even then as they are now, and 4 of our losses came by a combined 12 points. Everyone seemed to be at least ok with giving him the 4th year, and after we went to a bowl and he won COY that year, obviously he was getting year 5.

He should have been fired immediately after losing to Maine. That's when it was pretty obvious that he would never be a long term solution. He wasn't fired after 2 years because, like you said, coaching wasn't near as cut-throat back then. If Mullen got us on probation, got fired, and then his replacement had 2 years like Croom did in his first 2, I would hope that he would get fired. We didn't fire him because it "wasn't acceptable" to fire someone that quickly when in reality it should have been very acceptable to fire someone that clueless. Also, he inherited a lot more than what he ended up starting with. He kicked everyone off the team that was worth a damn in the name of "doing it the right way". I mean the guy had a ten year plan. Any AD that allows a coach to have a ten year plan to get a program turned around is just absolutely crazy.

[Taog Redloh]

If you want to know the truth when Shula was hired (quickly) by Bama the Black coaches assoc went nuts because Bama basically told them to eat a ****. Slive got grilled on espn radio and basically promised the next sec coach would be black. I remember thinking oh **** listening to it, I still remember exactly where I was. We were up next and that was all she wrote. We were in no position to disagree with probation hanging over us, and we were cut a deal/break for "doin' the right thang". A lot of MSU losses and a lot of fired SEC coaches followed in the wake, LOL.
But it's all good now.
I know why we hired him. My question is why he became a head coaching candidate.

Even if LT/Slive internally decided that we wanted a black coach, we could have done much better. Why was Croom the BCA's/SEC's pet? Why not Charlie Strong? Or countless others. Guys who had AT LEAST been successful college coordinators. How does Croom go from NFL demotion to college darling?

[Taog Redloh]

Croom had the resume to be a head coach.
He really didn't. Never made it higher than a specific LB coach in college. Was a RB coach in NFL, then OC, then demoted to RB coach again. What leadership roles did he ever have?

[Taog Redloh]

He was an OC in the NFL. What is being suggested here?
I am suggesting that a guy who failed as an OC shouldn't be a candidate for a major college head coaching position. A few steps are being skipped.

[Taog Redloh]

It's funny, though, that people would question why Croom was qualified (and acknowledge he was just a courtesy candidate for the Bama job) while not questioning why Shula was qualified.
Shula was the same as Croom. Went from NFL OC to QB coach. He failed at Alabama. Next question please. Or, perhaps the question is why are these scrubs the best that were available at that time, knowing the hiring the process as we do now?

Now, continue your passive moral justice indictment of me.

[Coach34]

Crooms was an unsuccessful OC- he couldn't even move the ball with Barry Sanders.

He was hired because of his skin color. We turned Jimbo Fisher away to hire Crooms- a waste of 5 years for the most part. The guy fell the **** asleep on a recruit's couch. Hoooooo-leeeeee-shit

[Jarius]

He really didn't. Never made it higher than a specific LB coach in college. Was a RB coach in NFL, then OC, then demoted to RB coach again. What leadership roles did he ever have?

I mean his resume didn't stand out as unqualified. He didn't have the greatest resume ever, but like others have said, SEC teams have hired much less qualified people than Croom.

[Taog Redloh]

He was hired because of his skin color.
That is the second part of what has turned into a 2-part question:

1 - How did Croom become an SEC head coaching candidate with his terrible resume?

2 - Once he did, why was he (the guy with a terrible resume) the answer to the BCA's woes?

[scottycameron]

I know why we hired him. My question is why he became a head coaching candidate.

Even if LT/Slive internally decided that we wanted a black coach, we could have done much better. Why was Croom the BCA's/SEC's pet? Why not Charlie Strong? Or countless others. Guys who had AT LEAST been successful college coordinators. How does Croom go from NFL demotion to college darling?

I'm sure he was a very popular candidate with the BCA. he had put in his time and paid his dues and there was a feeling he had been passed over by Bama when he should not have been. And I'm sure he was thought to be a good representative for the black coaches assoc. As far as being a good candidate in MSU's eyes, i really don't think our side had much say so in it. The deal was cut with us on the outside. We were taking whatever they agreed on and got off lightly with probation for being cooperative. Our job was a political compromise between two entities bigger than us, we were just a third party host.
I thought everybody knew about this?

[Taog Redloh]

I mean his resume didn't stand out as unqualified. He didn't have the greatest resume ever, but like others have said, SEC teams have hired much less qualified people than Croom.
Name an SEC coach in the modern era who was hired that had never been a successful college coordinator before. Mike Shula is the only one I can think of.

It was painfully obvious Croominator knew nothing about the college game when he stayed at Green Bay during the playoffs instead of coming to MSU to recroot (in the most crucial part of the crootin calendar).

[Taog Redloh]

I'm sure he was a very popular candidate with the BCA. he had put in his time and paid his dues and there was a feeling he had been passed over by Bama when he should not have been. And I'm sure he was thought to be a good representative for the black coaches assoc. As far as being a good candidate in MSU's eyes, i really don't think our side had much say so in it. The deal was cut with us on the outside. We were taking whatever they agreed on and got off lightly with probation for being cooperative. Our job was a political compromise between two entities bigger than us, we were just a third party host.
I thought everybody knew about this?
Does 'paid ones dues' make one think they'll be a winner?

This isn't a government job.

[drunkernhelldawg]

How does this fire after 2 seasons idea have any credibility? Remember the previous three years? No coach of any hue would have been fired after two seasons given what he stepped into here.

I do think the athletic department made a big mistake in highlighting the racial aspect. The "Maroon is the Only Color that Matters" campaign forced people to look at it from the racial aspect. That's the source of a lot of the problems, imo.

People know but refuse to acknowledge that Croom led our only winning season of that decade. His second year was way too much in the center of that travesty to think about firing coaches..

[scottycameron]

Name an SEC coach in the modern era who was hired that had never been a successful college coordinator before. Mike Shula is the only one I can think of.

It was painfully obvious Croominator knew nothing about the college game when he stayed at Green Bay during the playoffs instead of coming to MSU to recroot (in the most crucial part of the crootin calendar).

Orgeron.

[Taog Redloh]

Orgeron.
Nice, that'll make your point.

Sorry, I didn't realize that I'd have to spell out that the coach needs to be somewhat qualified and halfway competent. At least Orgeron was trending upward and had the title of Assistant Head Coach.

[Jarius]

Name an SEC coach in the modern era who was hired that had never been a successful college coordinator before. Mike Shula is the only one I can think of.

It was painfully obvious Croominator knew nothing about the college game when he stayed at Green Bay during the playoffs instead of coming to MSU to recroot (in the most crucial part of the crootin calendar).

Derek Dooley was a pretty questionable hire. He was an average coach at La Tech. Also, we were considered to be pretty damn low on the destination list for anyone who was an up and comer. Hell, even someone who you think wasn't qualified almost turned us down. The worst program in the conference that is staring probation in the face? Um....no thanks.

[scottycameron]

I was just listing one off the top of my head. Wasn't making any point. I don't think it was that important to be qualified in a traditional way, this was about something different that other hires. I'd compare it to condoleeza rice being qualified to decide on the NC playoff teams. She's not at all but it looks good to give her the position. And everybody is ok with it. It's not like she can cause too much damage anyway. i think that is how they viewed the MSU job.

[Jarius]

His nuking of the entire program is why he was in the middle of a travesty. There was a little talent on the team that he inherited. Instead of trying to do what every other coach in the world does (not kick them off the team) he decided to give us the death penalty. If you didn't know that he wasn't the answer after Maine, I don't guess we will be able to see eye to eye on this.


How does this fire after 2 seasons idea have any credibility? Remember the previous three years? No coach of any hue would have been fired after two seasons given what he stepped into here.

I do think the athletic department made a big mistake in highlighting the racial aspect. The "Maroon is the Only Color that Matters" campaign forced people to look at it from the racial aspect. That's the source of a lot of the problems, imo.

People know but refuse to acknowledge that Croom led our only winning season of that decade. His second year was way too much in the center of that travesty to think about firing coaches..

[Taog Redloh]

I was just listing one off the top of my head. Wasn't making any point. I don't think it was that important to be qualified in a traditional way, this was about something different that other hires. I'd compare it to condoleeza rice being qualified to decide on the NC playoff teams. She's not at all but it looks good to give her the position. And everybody is ok with it. It's not like she can cause too much damage anyway. i think that is how they viewed the MSU job.
I would agree with all of that, but I would have thought they wanted the first black coach to succeed. It was pretty much guaranteed that he would not succeed, if you looked at his resume.

That begs that question of whether or not LT/Slive every truly wanted football success in the first place.

[Taog Redloh]

Derek Dooley was a pretty questionable hire. He was an average coach at La Tech. Also, we were considered to be pretty damn low on the destination list for anyone who was an up and comer. Hell, even someone who you think wasn't qualified almost turned us down. The worst program in the conference that is staring probation in the face? Um....no thanks.
You can wonder why Dooley got the La Tech job, but not a big stretch for him to go from WAC to SEC. Tennessee was a little behind the 8-ball too, I think that was on into January/February when Kiffin left.

[Barking 13]

He was our first Rick Ray... I applaud both for being the scapegoat after a dumpster fire, and allowing us to be able to get to where we are now... end of story....

[Coach34]

That is the second part of what has turned into a 2-part question:

1 - How did Croom become an SEC head coaching candidate with his terrible resume?

2 - Once he did, why was he (the guy with a terrible resume) the answer to the BCA's woes?

Charley Strong and one other guy turned us down

[Taog Redloh]

He was our first Rick Ray... I applaud both for being the scapegoat after a dumpster fire, and allowing us to be able to get to where we are now... end of story....
Fair enough. Probably the most accurate of any.

[Barking 13]

Fair enough. Probably the most accurate of any.

I mean actually both are good men.. just not SEC coaches... and you have to remember where we were in the pecking order at the time... nobody would touch us with a ten foot pole...

[Really Clark?]

Name an SEC coach in the modern era who was hired that had never been a successful college coordinator before. Mike Shula is the only one I can think of.

It was painfully obvious Croominator knew nothing about the college game when he stayed at Green Bay during the playoffs instead of coming to MSU to recroot (in the most crucial part of the crootin calendar).

There are 3 or 4 Vandy coaches (Watson Brown, Dowhower, Woodenhofer sp?) that were very weak and had questionable resume. Morriss at Kentucky as well.

ETA. Caldwell at Vandy as well

[Really Clark?]

I mean actually both are good men.. just not SEC coaches... and you have to remember where we were in the pecking order at the time... nobody would touch us with a ten foot pole...

Jumbo Fisher was willing with a much shorter pole.

[Todd4State]

I think a big reason why LT focused on Croom was because LT seemed infatuated with coaches with a connection to Alabama and the Bear plus his skin color. Not to mention that LT was cheap and lazy. I'm sure we probably could have gotten Strong or someone like that had we pushed some.

Croom didn't even really want our job if I remember- I think his wife and one of his friends talked him into it. I think in reality he looked down on us and I think that hurt him and consequently us as well.

[starkvegasdawg]

Jumbo Fisher was willing with a much shorter pole.

I'll be honest...after watching the nonstop episodes of Cops that is the FSU football program I'm glad we didn't get Fisher.

[mparkerfd20]

I mean actually both are good men.. just not SEC coaches... and you have to remember where we were in the pecking order at the time... nobody would touch us with a ten foot pole...

I don't necessarily agree. I don't think Croom was half as good of a man as he got credit for.

[Really Clark?]

I'll be honest...after watching the nonstop episodes of Cops that is the FSU football program I'm glad we didn't get Fisher.

Well I probably agree but that's hindsight. And also the FSU culture and pressure for him to win might have attributed to that program. His program here might have been a good bit different. But if not, I agree with you.

[Churchill]

He was a necessary pawn in a publicity stunt put together by LT and the league. It cost us dearly and made him a shit load of money. I am also curious as to what specific things he did for so many to label him a "great man". I.E. charities , civic etc ? Are there many former player testimonials that would attest to his greatness ?

[Jarius]

He didn't do anything while here that made me think he was any better of a man than any other decent human being that makes millions of dollars. If he was that great he wouldn't have trashed us after we fired him as if he didn't deserve it.

[PassInterference]

Find the Templeton interviews from back then. He said his priority was to find someone to represent the school. Character, pride, etc. Templeton never said a word about football.

This post has been brought to you by Carrie Underwood's legs. #CMAS

[HSVDawg]

Looking back at the situation at the time Croom's initial rise to recognition does add some clarity. Flash back to 2003. Bama had just been forced to fire Mike Price in the early summer due to his multiple indiscretions. That is an awful time to be looking for a football coach, especially at a powerhouse like Bama. Also, Bama then was not the Bama of now in Saban's era of domination. Dennis Franchione had just fled the coup for Texas A&M 6 months prior, his replacement had already been shitcanned, and they were recovering from pretty severe NCAA sanctions that resulted from the DuBose era. Long story short, Bama was at that time just a middle of the road SEC West program that was wrapping up a 6 year long stretch of mediocrity that followed Gene Stallings retirement, and they were looking for a football coach in June.

Given all of the above information, it's not hard to see that Alabama was going to be short on viable candidates to fill the spot after Price was canned. Coaching carousel season had long since passed. Nobody wanted to leave their current program at that time of the year unless it was a one in a million opportunity, which Alabama certainly was not at that time. So, a couple of alumni in Croom and Shula surfaced as the lead names, both of which were NFL assistants and therefore in the only class of candidates that could afford to leave their current roles. Both were interviewed, Shula got the nod, the BCA complained, etc. The one thing that gets lost in all this is that every reasonable Bama fan knew that based on the circumstances this was going to be a placeholder hire that would be dealt with accordingly. Sure enough, Shula lasted just 4 years and was fired despite not significantly deviating in the W-L column from the 6 years prior.

Nevertheless, through media magic Croom got some pub from being a finalist for this "premier" job, despite the fact that several unlikely events had to occur for him to even be considered (someone actually deciding to leave Bama, a six month stint for a replacement that coached 0 games, etc). LT of course ate it up like the fool that he was, and flash forward 1 year later and Croom is our coach. The reality is that neither Croom nor Shula were remotely qualified to be considered for head coaching positions at the BCS conference level, but both fell ass backwards into head gigs in the SEC. This was all primarily due to their history at Bama and a confluence of odd circumstances. It's a small miracle how it all worked out and there should probably be a 30-for-30 on it someday.

[TUSK]

I seem to recall that the Alabama AD, Mal Moore, (who also was responsible for the Mike Shula hire) put Croom's name into LTs ear.

.... and ya'll thought all Bammer did was payoff refs & recruits...

[tcdog70]

A resume that includes a decade as an assistant at one of the top programs in college football, followed by 17 years as an NFL coach, including 4 years as an NFL OC?

Seriously?

How did Mike Shula become an SEC HC candidate? How about Phil Fulmer? Ed Orgeron?

Croom coached Barry Sanders to the best year of his career and led Ahman Green to multiple 1,200 yard seasons, including almost 1,900 yards the year before we hired him. I'm not saying he was the most obvious candidate there's been, but he was no less qualified than plenty of coaches who have been hired, especially at a school like State and especially over a decade ago.

Why would what we know now play into it?

You can't help it. Are you kin to the Slytantic. You were a Sly apoligist to the very end. He was a bad hire and a terrible Coach. Any one that wasn't blinded by the Maroon is all that matters mantra could tell after 1 game that Croom was a pretender. He had more players thrown under the Bus or arrested that any Coach in our history. But Here you are still with the Croom love.

[smootness]

You can't help it. Are you kin to the Slytantic. You were a Sly apoligist to the very end. He was a bad hire and a terrible Coach. Any one that wasn't blinded by the Maroon is all that matters mantra could tell after 1 game that Croom was a pretender. He had more players thrown under the Bus or arrested that any Coach in our history. But Here you are still with the Croom love.

Please show me where I gave him 'love' in that post. I simply said that Croom is not the least qualified candidate for an SEC HC job, and he's probably not one of the 10-15 least qualified candidates. That is a fact.

So if the question is, how was Croom an SEC HC candidate, it seems you're really just saying, I think there have been a lot of SEC HC candidates and HCs who shouldn't have been considered.

That's fine as an opinion, but singling out Croom as somehow less qualified than pretty much everyone else is weird.

Part of it is that it was a different time. It's unlikely a guy with that resume would get a look now. But go back and look at the 90s; it wasn't overly unusual then. I've admitted multiple times that I was wrong on Croom and that with clearer eyes in hindsight, it's unlikely he ever would have produced a consistent winner. But it wasn't crazy that he was a candidate at the time.

[shoeless joe]

He was a necessary pawn in a publicity stunt put together by LT and the league. It cost us dearly and made him a shit load of money. I am also curious as to what specific things he did for so many to label him a "great man". I.E. charities , civic etc ? Are there many former player testimonials that would attest to his greatness ?

I know two guys pretty well that played for croom...they love the man and defend him feverishly whenever this type discussion comes up. Both these guys were there at Sherrill's end and always speak to how bad things were when he took over.

I also was friends with another player while I was in college and his account of croom was quite different. If the stories he told were true then croom was no different or better of a man than any other coach

[drunkernhelldawg]

He was our first Rick Ray... I applaud both for being the scapegoat after a dumpster fire, and allowing us to be able to get to where we are now... end of story....

Winner.

[tcdog70]

Please show me where I gave him 'love' in that post. I simply said that Croom is not the least qualified candidate for an SEC HC job, and he's probably not one of the 10-15 least qualified candidates. That is a fact.

So if the question is, how was Croom an SEC HC candidate, it seems you're really just saying, I think there have been a lot of SEC HC candidates and HCs who shouldn't have been considered.

That's fine as an opinion, but singling out Croom as somehow less qualified than pretty much everyone else is weird.

Part of it is that it was a different time. It's unlikely a guy with that resume would get a look now. But go back and look at the 90s; it wasn't overly unusual then. I've admitted multiple times that I was wrong on Croom and that with clearer eyes in hindsight, it's unlikely he ever would have produced a consistent winner. But it wasn't crazy that he was a candidate at the time.

He coach 17 years in the NFL and got a chance as a OC and failed big time. Barry Sanders didn't need Sly to be great. He really didn't want to be at MSU. he had absolutely no clue what recruiting was about. He tried to cram a West Coast offense down our throats but he failed to recruit the Players to make it work. the stupidest shit to ever come out of His mouth(and there were plenty to chose from) was he knew we were going to lose to Maine they were the better team. He should have fired the minute that came out of his mouth.

[smootness]

He coach 17 years in the NFL and got a chance as a OC and failed big time. Barry Sanders didn't need Sly to be great. He really didn't want to be at MSU. he had absolutely no clue what recruiting was about. He tried to cram a West Coast offense down our throats but he failed to recruit the Players to make it work. the stupidest shit to ever come out of His mouth(and there were plenty to chose from) was he knew we were going to lose to Maine they were the better team. He should have fired the minute that came out of his mouth.

Hardly any of that addresses his initial candidacy.

Check out this link:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/. Croom had one above-average year in Detroit, one slightly below-average year, and two average years offensively during his time at OC. It took 7 years after he left before they had an offense as good as his worst. They had a record of at least .500 3 out of his 4 years as OC there and made the playoffs twice. The next time they won as many as 8 or made the playoffs after Bobby Ross' staff left? 2011, 11 years later.

Barry Sanders had the best year of his career under Croom in 1997, and Sanders didn't play in 1999 or 2000. The team went 17-15 in those years, with Gus Frerotte and Charlie Batch at QB and James Stewart and Greg Hill as leading rushers. Bobby Ross resigned midway through the 2000 season, not due to performance. The new coach then cleaned house after that year. Croom then went to Green Bay, where Ahman Green had tons of success under him; GB was 23rd in the NFL in rushing in 2000, before Croom, then jumped to 21 in 2001, 12 in 2002, and finally 3rd in the NFL in 2003, with Ahman Green finishing 2nd in the league with almost 1,900 yards.

His offenses ranked 4th, 20th, 15th, and 22nd in points and 2nd, 14th, 21st, and 27 in yards in Detroit. Is that great? Of course not. I'm not about to argue that Croom is a great offensive mind or that he was phenomenal in Detroit. But pretending he was awful is crazy. This was his resume at the time we hired him. It's not a great resume, but it's certainly not terrible or crazy that he might be considered for a college HC job.

[Bocephus]

[QUOTE=starkvegasdawg;441494]Without getting this thread thrown to the political board I think the SEC office was trying to make a statement and it was our turn to bat. I've heard rumors that we were told that if we played ball that it would be taken into consideration by the NCAA when it came sanction time. Not sure that was true but our sanctions weren't that bad for what they were trying to accuse us of.[/QU

[thunderclap]

His resume from Wiki:

Alabama (GA/C, 1976)
Alabama (ILB, 1977?1981)
Alabama (OLB, 1982?1983)
Alabama (ILB, 1984?1986)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (RB, 1987?1990)
Indianapolis Colts (RB, 1991)
San Diego Chargers (RB, 1992?1996)
Detroit Lions (OC, 1997?2000)
Green Bay Packers (RB, 2001?2003)


How exactly does a resume like that, knowing what we know now, lend itself to make one an SEC head coaching candidate?

Yes. Larry Templeton.

[tcdog70]

Hardly any of that addresses his initial candidacy.

Check out this link:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/. Croom had one above-average year in Detroit, one slightly below-average year, and two average years offensively during his time at OC. It took 7 years after he left before they had an offense as good as his worst. They had a record of at least .500 3 out of his 4 years as OC there and made the playoffs twice. The next time they won as many as 8 or made the playoffs after Bobby Ross' staff left? 2011, 11 years later.

Barry Sanders had the best year of his career under Croom in 1997, and Sanders didn't play in 1999 or 2000. The team went 17-15 in those years, with Gus Frerotte and Charlie Batch at QB and James Stewart and Greg Hill as leading rushers. Bobby Ross resigned midway through the 2000 season, not due to performance. The new coach then cleaned house after that year. Croom then went to Green Bay, where Ahman Green had tons of success under him; GB was 23rd in the NFL in rushing in 2000, before Croom, then jumped to 21 in 2001, 12 in 2002, and finally 3rd in the NFL in 2003, with Ahman Green finishing 2nd in the league with almost 1,900 yards.

His offenses ranked 4th, 20th, 15th, and 22nd in points and 2nd, 14th, 21st, and 27 in yards in Detroit. Is that great? Of course not. I'm not about to argue that Croom is a great offensive mind or that he was phenomenal in Detroit. But pretending he was awful is crazy. This was his resume at the time we hired him. It's not a great resume, but it's certainly not terrible or crazy that he might be considered for a college HC job.

being a running Back Coach in the NFL is shitty credentials for being a head Coach in the SEC. It says nothing about your ability to recruit. Being able to recruit is way more important than Your ability to Coach an all-NFL running back
who was great before Croom came along. I guess being average and not knowing $hit about recruiting is an OK resume to be a HC in the SEC. They loved Him T-Town but they thought he wasn't as good as Shula . Not good for the Tide but just Jim ****ing Dandy for the Bulldogs.

[Really Clark?]

being a running Back Coach in the NFL is shitty credentials for being a head Coach in the SEC. It says nothing about your ability to recruit. Being able to recruit is way more important than Your ability to Coach an all-NFL running back
who was great before Croom came along. I guess being average and not knowing $hit about recruiting is an OK resume to be a HC in the SEC. They loved Him T-Town but they thought he wasn't as good as Shula . Not good for the Tide but just Jim ****ing Dandy for the Bulldogs.

The recruiting argument goes for NFL coordinators and head coaches who have never or been away from the college game a long time as well. So that would go for any NFL coach. To me that is a weak argument in this debate. Not that Croom had good enough of a resume but it's a crap shoot on if any of them will be good recruiters. Many are terrible but some are good. The biggest knock from many insiders when Carroll landed USC was they didn't think he would be able to recruit. It worked out and he hired some "effective" recruiters but it's a crap shoot with pro guys.

[smootness]

being a running Back Coach in the NFL is shitty credentials for being a head Coach in the SEC. It says nothing about your ability to recruit. Being able to recruit is way more important than Your ability to Coach an all-NFL running back
who was great before Croom came along. I guess being average and not knowing $hit about recruiting is an OK resume to be a HC in the SEC. They loved Him T-Town but they thought he wasn't as good as Shula . Not good for the Tide but just Jim ****ing Dandy for the Bulldogs.

Huh? The argument you're trying to make is that if a coach isn't good enough for Alabama, then he clearly isn't good enough for State? That's strange. Tons of people said at the time Bama hired the less qualified guy in Shula, and I think we all know why.

Again, I'm not saying Croom had impeccable credentials or that he was a great hire. I'm saying that his resume wasn't ridiculously sparse for an SEC HC candidate at the time. All this talk of him lacking any credentials is with the benefit of hindsight. He was an NFL OC. That was definitely credentials for being a head coach in the SEC at the time. Not even a question. Coaches coming from the NFL without recruiting experience (and Croom did have a decade of prior recruiting experience) was much more common back then.

Pete Carroll had been away from college for the same amount of time as Croom when USC hired him.

[tcdog70]

he was a RB coach for the Packers he was fired as OC for the LIONs. Pete Carroll and Croom--are you serious.