2016 Utah Game + Elk Hunt

[SapperDawg]

With the release of the 2016 football schedule, I wanted to poll the group to see if anyone was interested in a DIY elk hunt in Colorado on one of the weeks surrounding the game in Provo.

Game day is 15 OCT. Looks like the any weapon Utah season is the two weeks prior to the game. While there are OTC tags in Utah, it is a tough place to hunt. Colorado's first rifle season for 2016 starts on 15 OCT and runs though 19 OCT. There are no OTC tags for this hunt, it is draw only, but there are several units you can draw with 0 preference points, and Provo is about 5 hours from Steamboat Springs, CO in northwest part of the state.

Also appears that WY, MT and ID general OTC elk dates are around this time too, but I have not put much effort into looking at those yet.

I am a member of gohunt.com so if there are some folks interested, I can put the research in for units, stats, etc. If there are folks interested, we can start the conversation regarding backpack wilderness hunt, base camp hunt, etc.

[Treemydawg]

Elk hunting has been a dream of mine ever since big Keith Burgess of Primos bought some elk steaks over to the house to grill for a state football game. Some of the best eating I've ever had. Count me in.

[SapperDawg]

My first round of research shows these units are primary draws for hunters with no preference points based on the 2015 draw results, in case anyone wants to check them out.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo192/scumglove/Primary%200%20PP%20Draw%20Units_zpsnpxyafvl.png (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/scumglove/media/Primary%200%20PP%20Draw%20Units_zpsnpxyafvl.png.ht ml)

Second Set of 0 PP Draw Units:

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo192/scumglove/Second%20Set%200%20PP%20Draw%20Units_zpsrd6nthvb.p ng (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/scumglove/media/Second%20Set%200%20PP%20Draw%20Units_zpsrd6nthvb.p ng.html)

My guess is these units creep to around 75-90% draw rate for the 2016 year.

Third set of 0 PP draw units:

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo192/scumglove/Third%20Set%200%20PP%20Draw%20Units_zpsdxx4lubk.pn g (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/scumglove/media/Third%20Set%200%20PP%20Draw%20Units_zpsdxx4lubk.pn g.html)

With point creep, these units will likely be less than 50% for a 0 PP draw in 2016.

Colorado GMU map is here: https://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Maps/BigGameGMUmap.pdf

I have an application strategy in mind for getting one of these units and gaining a preference point, but much more work to do to flesh that out.

EDIT: how to read the chart -
1. The "0 PP 2015" column notes how many non-resident applicants there were in 2015 with 0 preference points, and how many drew a tag. Obvioulsy all of these units were 100% draw. I will post others later that were less than 100%.
2. Private Ownership column - percentage of land in the unit that is owned by a private party. I will include a column later with the size of the unit to give this some addtional persepctive. In narrowing this down, one of the things we want to look at are the number of public access acres per hunter.
3. Wilderness - yes or no if the unit contains designated wilderness areas or not. IF you are not familiar with these, they are no motor vehicle allowed, so that thins out the hunter population but requires significantly more effort to hunt.
4. Second choice draw: This will help identify an application strategy later once the decision is made to move forward.

[SapperDawg]

Montana

Looks like MT will not post their dates until sometime later, but if they are close to the 2015 dates, then the general season, either sex, any weapon will be open for units 150, 151, 280 and 316. HD 316 is closest to Provo, at just over 7 hours away.

GoHunt.com does not have any info several of thes yet, but I understandthey are primarily backcountry units, so the hunt will be either a hard backpack style or drop-camp hunt.

I will post more info on MT as I get into their draw and harvest results. This has the possibility for a combo deer-elk hunt.

[SapperDawg]

Wyoming

It appears the WY general tags, assuming similar to 2015, will start about game weekend and go through the end of October. These are either sex, any weapon tags and are much closer to Provo than the MT general units, at between 3-5 hours away.

GoHunt.com does have significant info on each of these units, and I will post those later this week as I have time to get into them. WY has a really difficult to understand draw system, so general tags are probably the way to go here.

[Treemydawg]

I would think the wilderness units or area would be the best option for success. Less vehichels, less hunters = less disturbance and that = the best chance at success in my mind. A little hard work never hurt anybody.

[SapperDawg]

I would think the wilderness units or area would be the best option for success. Less vehichels, less hunters = less disturbance and that = the best chance at success in my mind. A little hard work never hurt anybody.

I agree, wilderness is the way to go. One drawback with WY is that the wilderness areas are not open to non-resident hunters, unless they have a guide or WY resident companion. Any Outdoor Dawgs WY residents? An outfitter drop-camp could be an option here, should WY end up as the choice. Those are much less expensive than a guided hunt, and all hunting is still DIY - they just drop you off on horseback 7-8 miles in.

[SapperDawg]

I waded into the WY drawing and point system, and have basically come to the following:

1. WY will allow party applications, and they use the average of the combined point total for the party in the draw without rounding. I have one point, so we will go in at greater than zero.
2. Based on 2014 and 2015, we have a 100% chance of drawing a general tag by using the special draw. Going in for the special draw increases the price of the tag from $577 to $1057. In 2015 less than 1 PP for the general tag drawing was 0.00%.
3. Of the 21 limited entry units considered above average, none were reachable in the general draw and only unit 118 could be had in the special draw.
4. Antlerless tags for any premium unit can be drawn in the general drawing with 0 or 1 PP.
5. There are 46 units you can hunt with the general tag that are not coded as having difficult public access. We can further reduce the units with large wilderness areas by another 10, so that leaves 36 units in WY to hunt on a general tag.

So for me, a Wyoming hunt revolves around the following decision points: are we OK with an antlerless only tag and get to hunt in a premium unit? Would you rather spend and extra $500 and get an any elk tag and have lots of places to hunt?

My vote would be the any elk general tag, because if we just have a cow tag, a 380" bull will be broadside at 30 yards.

[SapperDawg]

I have been working on my gear list for western hunting for some time. I think I have my pack worked out to between 43 and 47 LBS total. Here is where I am thus far:

Pack: EXO 3500 only weighs 4 lbs 14 oz and is expandable to 7000 ci
Tent: Cabelas XPG 2P Ultralight - 3 lb 12 oz
Sleeping Bag: Cabelas Evader 30 - 2 lb 13 oz (really concerned about carrying only a 30 degree bag, so interested to hear any thoughts about this)
Sleeping Pad: Themalite XLite - 12 oz
Stove: Jetboil Flash 13.2 oz
Water Filtration: Platypus 4L system - 12 oz
Clothing: First Lite series of merino wool along with First Lite weatherproof outer layers.
Optics: Vortex Binos. Also looking at lightweight tripod (just over 1 lb) and a Vortex spotting scope.
Figure 1.5 lbs of food per day and 8 lbs of water carrying in.
First aid kit - 1 lb
Kill kit and game bags - 1 lb

Working on finding and getting fitted for a good set of mountain boots, but due to the limited options around here I am thinking of going the Lathrop and Sons route as they have a custom fitting service: https://lathropandsons.com/

[Treemydawg]

I have been working on my gear list for western hunting for some time. I think I have my pack worked out to between 43 and 47 LBS total. Here is where I am thus far:

Pack: EXO 3500 only weighs 4 lbs 14 oz and is expandable to 7000 ci
Tent: Cabelas XPG 2P Ultralight - 3 lb 12 oz
Sleeping Bag: Cabelas Evader 30 - 2 lb 13 oz (really concerned about carrying only a 30 degree bag, so interested to hear any thoughts about this)
Sleeping Pad: Themalite XLite - 12 oz
Stove: Jetboil Flash 13.2 oz
Water Filtration: Platypus 4L system - 12 oz
Clothing: First Lite series of merino wool along with First Lite weatherproof outer layers.
Optics: Vortex Binos. Also looking at lightweight tripod (just over 1 lb) and a Vortex spotting scope.
Figure 1.5 lbs of food per day and 8 lbs of water carrying in.
First aid kit - 1 lb
Kill kit and game bags - 1 lb

Working on finding and getting fitted for a good set of mountain boots, but due to the limited options around here I am thinking of going the Lathrop and Sons route as they have a custom fitting service: https://lathropandsons.com/

Great list. I have no idea where to start when preparing for a pack hunt. Thanks for the info.

[SapperDawg]

Utah

I spent some time this weekend looking a bit further into the Utah OTC elk hunting. It is much less expensive than WY at less than $500 for license and tag, and they are over the counter. The better OTC units appear to be within a 2.5 hour drive of Provo, along the border of WY. Large wilderness area and lots of public land. One issue: the general season ends on OCT 15...so if we went the week prior to gameday, we could technically kill early and then have some time on our hands. Not that it would be a terrible thing to tag out in the first day, but if we wack one on the evening of the 14th - it could get tight for game day.

One more set of data points to consider.

[SapperDawg]

Great list. I have no idea where to start when preparing for a pack hunt. Thanks for the info.

This is year two of elk prep for me. Kentucky was a warm up for the real thing last year. I built a pretty good budget layering system with Minus 33 merino wool base layers off Amazon, and Gander Mountain Guide Series outer shells. Combined with a heavy weight layer of miliary poly pros, this was super warm, flexible and budget friendly.

If I had to buy packable rain wear today, it would be the Cabelas Space Rain pants and jacket. Really impressed with these.

Here is the Guide Series outer shell:

Jacket: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Guide-Series-Ultra-Form-Base-Softshell-Jacket&i=781737

Pants: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Guide-Series-Ultra-Form-Base-Softshell-Pant&i=781738

Had my eye on this puffy layer last year, but thought it was too high. On clearance now, could be a good buy: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Guide-Series-Mens-Ultra-Form-Base-Puffy-Jacket&i=781739

Another good puffy option and less than $40 - I have this one with a hood and it is very packable: http://www.cabelas.com/product/cabela-s-men-s-grand-teton-jacket-with-primaloft-174-ndash-regular/1621734.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D1000002949 %26Ne%3D1000002949%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3DPri maloft%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_l%3D Header%253BSearch-All%252BProducts%26WTz_st%3DSearchRefinements%26fo rm_state%3DsearchForm%26recordsPerPage%3D80%26sear ch%3DPrimaloft%26searchTypeByFilter%3DTopRated%26x %3D10%26y%3D6&Ntt=Primaloft

[Treemydawg]

What kind of temps do you think one would need to be prepared for out west that time of year ?

[SapperDawg]

Just happended to be looking at Utah and it is 50's to low 30's. Chance of snow in the higher elevations.

[Treemydawg]

Going by your list I'm pretty sure the only thing I would need to buy is a sleeping bag and a water filtration system. I'm set on everything else besides the elk tag.

[SapperDawg]

Going together we can cut some stuff....rather than the full water filtration system, one of us carries an extra bladder. Same for optics, no need for two spotters, one will work.

Seems like a long way off, but application periods start in January.

[SapperDawg]

Got a sweet deal on a new pack for this trip yesterday: http://www.kuiu.com/hunting-backpacks-packs/icon-pro-5200/62007.html

[SapperDawg]

I have been stressing over sleeping bags most recently, with the decision between down, coated down, or synthetic. I want to plan on the worst case scenario being that it will rain and be wet, or the tent will have condensation problems, or we will have a really cold front roll through.

In the normal sense, we will each have a tent plus a sleeping bag weighing between 7-10 lbs each (14-20 lbs per crew). There is an option to use a tipi style shelter like this:

http://store.seekoutside.com/6-person-tipi/

With an ultralight stove:

http://store.seekoutside.com/titanium-wood-stove-large/

We would still have to carry sleeping bags, but they could be reduced to 30 degree down bags at about 1.5 lbs each, or synthetic at about 3 lbs each. If we went the tipi stove route, we would carry 5 lbs of tipi (including poles) and just under 3 lbs of stove and pipe (total of 8 lbs per crew). If we used synthetic 30 degree bags @ 2#13oz, then we are at less than 15 lbs per crew for total living weight for bag, tent, and stove. Saving about 5 lbs per crew, and having much, much more flexibility.

Downside is the cost associated with this upgrade, although I am sure there are cheaper ultralight stoves out there.

[Treemydawg]

I don't think saving 5 # per person would justify the extra cost of the tipi setup. I've been talking to some friends who have hunted out west ( some former military) and their suggestion on a sleeping bag was a military issue bag from the army navy pawn shop in Starkville. They are very inexpensive and they all swear by them. They claim they are rated for -20 %. What one of these weighs I have no clue, but I plan on going by there this week one evening when I have time and buy one.

[SapperDawg]

I have two of those and have slept all over the world in them. Only issue I have is they are 11 ish lbs for the whole rig, and very bulky.

[SapperDawg]

OK - time for a bump as the Wyoming deadline for drawing ends on the 31st of January. For those interested, I have a strategy that I think will ensure we can draw in a decent unit - during the rut. The catch - unless we want to go for two weeks, I think we miss the football game.

So far it is just Tree and I, so last shot to join the hunt.