Hitting Coach

[Blackout]

We all agree that we hit a home run with a top notch hire in Wes Johnson

With that said, our recent issues have been on the offensive side of things. Who are the Wes Johnson type hitting coaches and are we pursuing any of them. I feel that we can financially compete with anyone as far as assistants go so with our coming rise we should go after the best on this side of the ball as well

[Perpetual Underachiever]

Excellent point. I'm very excited about the Johnson hire, and expect him to do great things with our pitchers. I realize the Dude is not an offensively friendly ballpark, but damn it sure would be nice to have a lineup other pitchers feared. What is our bat sponsor status? I assume Adidas unfortunately, which will not change anytime soon. Personally think DeMarini has the hottest bats almost every year.

[TStationDawg]

Excellent point. I'm very excited about the Johnson hire, and expect him to do great things with our pitchers. I realize the Dude is not an offensively friendly ballpark, but damn it sure would be nice to have a lineup other pitchers feared. What is our bat sponsor status? I assume Adidas unfortunately, which will not change anytime soon. Personally think DeMarini has the hottest bats almost every year.

Players can choose their own bats this year I believe I saw somewhere. I'm fine with any of these: Easton, DeMarini, LS, Rawlings... I REALLY like the new VELO from Rawlings! Anything other than the Adidas bats. I know it has a sweet spot- but nobody I saw use it across many levels of play last year just couldn't seem to find it. They should call it G-Spot technology.

[Really Clark?]

Discussed on here:

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?35164-Fall-Ball-Bats&highlight=bats

[starkvegasdawg]

We all agree that we hit a home run with a top notch hire in Wes Johnson

With that said, our recent issues have been on the offensive side of things. Who are the Wes Johnson type hitting coaches and are we pursuing any of them. I feel that we can financially compete with anyone as far as assistants go so with our coming rise we should go after the best on this side of the ball as well

We're going with this guy:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/download/images/season-9/905/905_kck-up-to-bat.jpg

[ScottH]

Your point is valid but.....

Hitting Coach in MSU baseball = Offensive Coordinator in MSU football

For the most part impotent positions as long as current head coaches in place.

[missouridawg]

Your point is valid but.....

Hitting Coach in MSU baseball = Offensive Coordinator in MSU football

For the most part impotent positions as long as current head coaches in place.

We've had excellent offenses in football for 7 years running.

[engie]

We've had excellent offenses in football for 7 years running.

Weve actually had one excellent offense in 7 years in football -- last year

[Percho]

Players can choose their own bats this year I believe I saw somewhere. I'm fine with any of these: Easton, DeMarini, LS, Rawlings... I REALLY like the new VELO from Rawlings! Anything other than the Adidas bats. I know it has a sweet spot- but nobody I saw use it across many levels of play last year just couldn't seem to find it. They should call it G-Spot technology.

Well, at least the best joke that has been posted. I did, laugh out loud.

[defiantdog]

Weve actually had one excellent offense in 7 years in football -- last year

Agreed..... I honestly think we're a running back away from having an excellent offense this season.

[smootness]

Weve actually had one excellent offense in 7 years in football -- last year

Regardless, anyone who can produce what we've done offensively over the last 7 years, and build us into the offensive team we are now, is an excellent offensive coach.

They may not all have been excellent relative to the SEC, but they've all been phenomenal relative to Mississippi State history.

[Coach34]

We all agree that we hit a home run with a top notch hire in Wes Johnson

With that said, our recent issues have been on the offensive side of things. Who are the Wes Johnson type hitting coaches and are we pursuing any of them. I feel that we can financially compete with anyone as far as assistants go so with our coming rise we should go after the best on this side of the ball as well

Our hitting coach is and shall remain John Cohen

[engie]

Regardless, anyone who can produce what we've done offensively over the last 7 years, and build us into the offensive team we are now, is an excellent offensive coach.

They may not all have been excellent relative to the SEC, but they've all been phenomenal relative to Mississippi State history.

We aren't competing with history of a game that no longer exists in the same discussion... Our offense has been behind the defense in at least 5 of 7 years here in football which I've shown statistically before even in neutralizing SOS.

But you did hit on my actual point -- the skew in MSU fan viewpoints in certain aspects instead of the realities.

[Todd4State]

1. Remember during the season when I said changes were going to be made? Will Coggin is going to be an upgrade over Dillon as far as coaching the hitters and assisting Cohen.

2. Our hitting is not as bad as it has been perceived. The problem has been hitting for power. In fact if we were completely neutral and looked at the stats objectively, we would have said that Butch was the problem.

3. At the same time, when you have singles hitters they are going to hit singles. If a singles hitter becomes a power hitter it is normally because of steroids. If you try to make a singles hitter into a power hitter, you usually are going to end up with a guy that hits a lot of lazy fly balls and decrease his average and thus actually make them a worse hitter.

4. We are going to be using different bats next year. There were several times our guys struck a ball really well and it just died like it was shot. That's on the bat not the player. Watch the World Series tonight and tell me how many Adidas bats you see. Or go back and watch the CWS and tell me how many you see. Adidas is simply not a reputable bat company. And if our guys are going to do something where I know they are going to fail 65% of the time, I want them to be swinging something that makes them as comfortable and confident as possible. That's why MLB let's the hitter choose what they want to hit with and not have a blind contract with one manufacturer.

5. We are bringing the fences in and we are recruiting more power hitters to go with our table setter guys. Our offensive numbers this fall were drastically better than last year in part because of how we are recruiting and using better bats.

6. We got caught in a change with the ball changing. We were built for the old baseball and that's why we continually defied Sabermetrics and won big. Had they given teams a year to adjust we would have been fine.

7. Losing Collins and Britton hurt us really bad last year.

[Backspin]

Will Coggin is NOT the hitting coach. John Cohen is the hitting coach. Coggin works with hitters on drills as directed by Cohen as did Dillon. Cohen has put out numerous hitting videos.

[engie]

Will Coggin is NOT the hitting coach. John Cohen is the hitting coach. Coggin works with hitters on drills as directed by Cohen as did Dillon. Cohen has put out numerous hitting videos.

Putting out hitting videos doesn't actually make one the "hitting" coach. Whoever connects with the player and helps them connect the dots is the hitting coach for that particular player

[smootness]

We aren't competing with history of a game that no longer exists in the same discussion... Our offense has been behind the defense in at least 5 of 7 years here in football which I've shown statistically before even in neutralizing SOS.

But you did hit on my actual point -- the skew in MSU fan viewpoints in certain aspects instead of the realities.

The game has changed, but we're still fighting against our history. Our offense, relative to the SEC, has been better over the last 7 years than ever before.

[Todd4State]

Will Coggin is NOT the hitting coach. John Cohen is the hitting coach. Coggin works with hitters on drills as directed by Cohen as did Dillon. Cohen has put out numerous hitting videos.

Correct. And hopefully he will be better at it than Dillon.

[engie]

The game has changed, but we're still fighting against our history. Our offense, relative to the SEC, has been better over the last 7 years than ever before.

And it's still been worse than our defense. Define for me why that is?

I'm really not trying to argue this -- but we've had one actual good offense and arguing otherwise just gives people the Polk treatment.

In the national perspective, our baseball offense had been better than our football offense more often than not... Go ahead and argue it if you must. But I don't define a broke history in a rich future -- and if you do -- chances are we will never be on the same page.

[Coach34]

Our offense was a huge problem from 2011-2013. Not Crooms bad- because that is rockbottom- but the D was much better than the O those 3 seasons

[smootness]

And it's still been worse than our defense. Define for me why that is?

I'm really not trying to argue this -- but we've had one actual good offense and arguing otherwise just gives people the Polk treatment.

In the national perspective, our baseball offense had been better than our football offense more often than not... Go ahead and argue it if you must. But I don't define a broke history in a rich future -- and if you do -- chances are we will never be on the same page.

Because we haven't had the talent on offense that we have on defense? Especially at QB? Why does the comparison to our defense matter?

Historically, we have had good defenses. The state of MS produces good defensive talent. Historically, we have had horrific offenses. The state of MS produces good RBs and raw OL but virtually nothing at QB and WR.

Considering the skill talent we had on offense for the first 4-5 years, our offenses were actually pretty good. And it is hard to convince QBs and WRs to come to a place that hasn't really produced either one.

We now have QBs and WRs, and our offense has taken the predictable jump.

I'm not someone who is trying to make excuses or who thinks we'll never be good because we haven't been. But everything is relative. Dealing in absolutes without context only leads to bad decisions.

[engie]

Because we haven't had the talent on offense that we have on defense? Especially at QB? Why does the comparison to our defense matter?

Historically, we have had good defenses. The state of MS produces good defensive talent. Historically, we have had horrific offenses. The state of MS produces good RBs and raw OL but virtually nothing at QB and WR.

Considering the skill talent we had on offense for the first 4-5 years, our offenses were actually pretty good. And it is hard to convince QBs and WRs to come to a place that hasn't really produced either one.

We now have QBs and WRs, and our offense has taken the predictable jump.

I'm not someone who is trying to make excuses or who thinks we'll never be good because we haven't been. But everything is relative. Dealing in absolutes without context only leads to bad decisions.

Like the fact that Baylor can never have a good offense? Watch that freshman light it up...

Ole Miss hasn't had trouble with having good offenses. It's a horse shit cop out. "Oh we produce defensive but not offensive talent" Why do we have arguably the best nfl player at every offensive skill position from MS? The past isn't an excuse. We aren't controlled by the same parameters any more.

It's funny how Mullen gets a pass for worse performances than Cohen's... But MSU goggles somehow excuse everything

[smootness]

Like the fact that Baylor can never have a good offense? Watch that freshman light it up...

Ole Miss hasn't had trouble with having good offenses. It's a horse shit cop out. "Oh we produce defensive but not offensive talent" Why do we have arguably the best nfl player at every offensive skill position from MS? The past isn't an excuse. We aren't controlled by the same parameters any more.

It's funny how Mullen gets a pass for worse performances than Cohen's... But MSU goggles somehow excuse everything

If we go out and average under 400 ypg like we did Mullen's first few years at this point, of course that's not good enough. No one is getting a pass. What the heck.

Go look at Briles' tenure. It took him time to get them where they are now, too, and that's in the Big 12 where an average offense puts up about 500 ypg. And he got a bit of a kick-start by convincing RGIII to come. Sure, he gets credit for that, but you act like Baylor was a juggernaut the minute he showed up.

It takes time, that's all I'm saying. There are no excuses going forward for our offense to revert to past times. But there is no quick fix.

Ole Miss has always recruited better than us out of state. And where are these huge Ole Miss offenses you seem to be talking about? Their numbers this year are inflated severely by torching a couple of scrubs. Are you honestly telling me you'd take their offense over ours right now?

Stop with this 'MSU goggles' crap. No, the past isn't an excuse. But yes, it absolutely does have an impact on the present, especially before a coach has time to build anything.

[smootness]

I'm not sure what you mean by the best NFL talent out of MS at every skill position, either. We have 0 QBs on the roster from MS. Our top 2 WRs are not from MS. Our top TE is a freshman who is not from MS.

Yes, our RBs are from MS...and they're actually not as good as MS RBs in the past have been.

And then we have Dear, a freshman.

Not a great showing for MS skill position talent.

[engie]

Briles' 2nd Baylor offense was better than Mullen's best here and not just barely. #12 year 2 to #2 year 3. In all of fbs. But I guess that's "time to build". You damn right it was a juggernaut. And people are still knighting that top 50 offense Mullen fielded in year two. OM offenses have been better than ours more often than not in this tenure as well. Would I take theirs over ours right now? Ask me again next Saturday when the cards are actually on the table. Coach has had more time than anyone in the country to build something. This was supposed to be one of the best offenses in the history of the SEC. While I haven't raised any hell yet, calling this season a disappointment to this point offensively is an understatement. But I'm sure you'll disagree. z

[engie]

I'm not sure what you mean by the best NFL talent out of MS at every skill position, either. We have 0 QBs on the roster from MS. Our top 2 WRs are not from MS. Our top TE is a freshman who is not from MS.

Yes, our RBs are from MS...and they're actually not as good as MS RBs in the past have been.

And then we have Dear, a freshman.

Not a great showing for MS skill position talent.

Favre, Peyton, Rice. Pretty big hole in the "just don't produce the talent" line of crap

[dawgoneyall]

You kid?

[smootness]

Favre, Peyton, Rice. Pretty big hole in the "just don't produce the talent" line of crap

Oh geez

[smootness]

Baylor averaged 343 ypg in year 2 under Briles. So not sure what you're talking about there.

[engie]

Oh geez

Don't blame you for skipping it after arguing that Mississippi doesn't produce offensive talent. Kinda like you are skipping the Baylor argument you made that crashed and burned spectacularly.

[smootness]

Don't blame you for skipping it after arguing that Mississippi doesn't produce offensive talent. Kinda like you are skipping the Baylor argument you made that crashed and burned spectacularly.

Dude, you just made possibly the worst argument I've seen on here. First, you used 3 players from a span of about 40 years. Second, you used 3 players that have nothing to do with Mullen's tenure. Third, you failed to highlight any MS talent Mullen could have made use of during his tenure. I really need to produce a real response to that?

You were wrong on the Baylor numbers. Briles is an offensive genius, you won't get an argument from me on that. I'm not saying Mullen is on that level. But yes, it did take time, even for Briles, and even in the garbage Big 12, to build it to where it is now. Mullen is a darn good offensive coach.

[engie]

Baylor averaged 343 ypg in year 2 under Briles. So not sure what you're talking about there.

Excuse me, #12 year 3, #2 year 4, with no notable dropoff since. And on the line he "lucked" into RG3 -- explain the 3 ahem 4... Since then.

But by all means -- fahrrr Butch -- me missed the top 15 once in the past 4 years. And Cohen is the best ever for fielding one top 50 offense in the last 5. Because that's what MSU fans think**
.

[engie]

I'm not sure what you mean by the best NFL talent out of MS at every skill position, either. We have 0 QBs on the roster from MS. Our top 2 WRs are not from MS. Our top TE is a freshman who is not from MS.

Yes, our RBs are from MS...and they're actually not as good as MS RBs in the past have been.

And then we have Dear, a freshman.

Not a great showing for MS skill position talent.


Dude, you just made possibly the worst argument I've seen on here. First, you used 3 players from a span of about 40 years. Second, you used 3 players that have nothing to do with Mullen's tenure. Third, you failed to highlight any MS talent Mullen could have made use of during his tenure. I really need to produce a real response to that?

You were wrong on the Baylor numbers. Briles is an offensive genius, you won't get an argument from me on that. I'm not saying Mullen is on that level. But yes, it did take time, even for Briles, and even in the garbage Big 12, to build it to where it is now. Mullen is a darn good offensive coach.

3 best offensive players there has been. What about moncrief? He's hardly the only example. Mullen ain't don't shit on the offensive Side outside the one year he had a "heisman" QB. Brought him back and can't do shit without an nfl RB. Mullen hasn't done shit. But, I know, he's perfect to you -- since he's better than croom -- and constantly runs defensive coaches for being better than his offense is.

[smootness]

3 best offensive players there has been. What about moncrief? He's hardly the only example. Mullen ain't don't shit on the offensive Side outside the one year he had a "heisman" QB. Brought him back and can't do shit without an nfl RB. Mullen hasn't done shit. But, I know, he's perfect to you -- since he's better than croom -- and constantly runs defensive coaches for being better than his offense is.

Holy crap, this is not worth it. Let's just agree to disagree.

Mullen is terrible because Favre, Payton, and Rice. Good gosh.

No, he sucks. You're spot on.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

We'll see where we end up but we're 2nd in the SEC in scoring & 3rd in yards/game. I wouldn't call that not shit but I'll let you guys get back to it.

[smootness]

We'll see where we end up but we're 2nd in the SEC in scoring & 3rd in yards/game. I wouldn't call that not shit but I'll let you guys get back to it.

Thank you.

[HSVDawg]

Briles' 2nd Baylor offense was better than Mullen's best here and not just barely. #12 year 2 to #2 year 3. In all of fbs. But I guess that's "time to build". You damn right it was a juggernaut. And people are still knighting that top 50 offense Mullen fielded in year two. OM offenses have been better than ours more often than not in this tenure as well. Would I take theirs over ours right now? Ask me again next Saturday when the cards are actually on the table. Coach has had more time than anyone in the country to build something. This was supposed to be one of the best offenses in the history of the SEC. While I haven't raised any hell yet, calling this season a disappointment to this point offensively is an understatement. But I'm sure you'll disagree. z

Comparing Briles' offenses to Mullen's is laughable in any capacity. Briles' numbers will always be inflated due to the flat out awful defenses in the Big 12. Stick Briles in the SEC and he's not putting up near those types of numbers.

[engie]

Comparing Briles' offenses to Mullen's is laughable in any capacity. Briles' numbers will always be inflated due to the flat out awful defenses in the Big 12. Stick Briles in the SEC and he's not putting up near those types of numbers.

Oh this again? Yeah those defenses looked like Swiss cheese last time we saw one. Oh, wait...

[engie]

We'll see where we end up but we're 2nd in the SEC in scoring & 3rd in yards/game. I wouldn't call that not shit but I'll let you guys get back to it.

Nice 4 game noncon skew...at least we did break 25 in a sec game in the last game for the first real time on over half a conference season. Those bama, OM, LSU, and aTm games looked pretty awesome:..

[engie]

Holy crap, this is not worth it. Let's just agree to disagree.

Mullen is terrible because Favre, Payton, and Rice. Good gosh.

No, he sucks. You're spot on.

You don't even know what or why you are arguing... Surprised that I'm not surprised. You're right -- stats bear out that he's one of the best offensive coaches in the country. So is Cohen. Butch and Collins are idiots though. By all means -- keep missing the forest for the trees.

[HSVDawg]

Oh this again? Yeah those defenses looked like Swiss cheese last time we saw one. Oh, wait...

Nice use on a one game sample size in which we lost our starting QB and one starting OG in the first quarter. Anyway, name me one Big 12 team that is comparable to Alabama, LSU, or Ole Miss defensively, all of which we have to play every year? Or in fact, don't answer that. This thread has already been hijacked far enough.

[Joe Schmedlap]

Oh this again? Yeah those defenses looked like Swiss cheese last time we saw one. Oh, wait...

No desire to argue, but yes, our game against Okie State in Houston 3 years ago was f'n AWFUL from an offensive standpoint.

[engie]

Nice use on a one game sample size in which we lost our starting QB and one starting OG in the first quarter. Anyway, name me one Big 12 team that is comparable to Alabama, LSU, or Ole Miss defensively, all of which we have to play every year? Or in fact, don't answer that. This thread has already been hijacked far enough.

Name one SEC school that equal to any of the top half of the Big12 offensively. That sword cuts both ways. So, yes, I'm saying their defenses are better than numbers imply. That Ole Miss defense you just called elite got lit up ridiculously by Boykin and TCU. How many points did they score on that Swiss cheese defense again? The "SEC dominance" approach is well past it's usefulness because it no longer exists currently.

And as I already said that was conveniently ignored -- I can statistically neutralize SOS and show our defense has been better than our offense in all of Mullen's first 5 years and this year as well I'm sure. But everyone gets their panties in a wad when someone calls a spade a spade on what our offense has been -- and it's usually the same people that were ready to go pitching coach shopping off one bad season last year in spite of back-to-back-to-back ACTUALLY elite pitching staffs.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Nice 4 game noncon skew...at least we did break 25 in a sec game in the last game for the first real time on over half a conference season. Those bama, OM, LSU, and aTm games looked pretty awesome:..

I could say the same about the vaunted OM offense who lead the SEC in scoring & yards/game. In SEC play OM avg 25.75 MSU 23.75. Both have feasted on non conference to boost their stats.

[engie]

I could say the same about the vaunted OM offense who lead the SEC in scoring & yards/game. In SEC play OM avg 25.75 MSU 23.75. Both have feasted on non conference to boost their stats.

Someone actively knighted their offense?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Someone actively knighted their offense?

This was your statement

"Ole Miss hasn't had trouble with having good offenses. It's a horse shit cop out. "Oh we produce defensive but not offensive talent".

I just used OM because you brought them up.

[engie]

This was your statement

"Ole Miss hasn't had trouble with having good offenses. It's a horse shit cop out. "Oh we produce defensive but not offensive talent".

I just used OM because you brought them up.


How many top 30 offenses have they had in the last 20 years? "Hasn't" implies the past. "Isn't" would imply the present.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

How many top 30 offenses have they had in the last 20 years? "Hasn't" implies the past. "Isn't" would imply the present.

I'm sorry I didn't bring my interpreter. I just assumed (silly me) you guys were talking about the present or recent history. I don't care enough to go back & forth but it look from the outside you were talking about the present. My bad since you weren't.

[smootness]

You don't even know what or why you are arguing... Surprised that I'm not surprised. You're right -- stats bear out that he's one of the best offensive coaches in the country. So is Cohen. Butch and Collins are idiots though. By all means -- keep missing the forest for the trees.

I literally haven't brought up Butch or Collins once. I think both are very, very good coaches and better than most State fans acknowledge.

So why on earth are you bringing them up? I'm arguing that because of our history and the kind of skill position talent MS generally produces, Mullen has done a good job in bringing our offense along. You brought up 3 guys who played HS/college football in MS more than 25 years ago.