Mike Hueganin on the MSU OL...

[CadaverDawg]

"Their OL has been much better than I actually thought they'd be. They just don't have a Running Back they can depend on. If Robinson was back, MSU is likely 6-1 or 7-0."

If you care what a guy like Huganin thinks...that shoots a major hole in the "it doesn't matter the RB, it's ALL ON THE SHITTY OL!" crowd's theory.

Thoughts?

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's a mix of both.

I think Robinson was absolutely worth 2 points against LSU, but probably not 13 points against A&M.

It's a mix. The OL was better last year, but this year's backs haven't taken full advantage of what the line has done.

[missouridawg]

I think it's somewhere in the middle. Our OL certainly hasn't been as good as it has the past few years. And Shump has definitely underperformed when it comes to running the ball. He does great at protection, however.

[starkvegasdawg]

Mullen just asks if we know what day it is. Because everyday it's Shump Day!

[DownwardDawg]

Mullen just asks if we know what day it is. Because everyday it's Shump Day!

Shump Daaaaaayyyyyy!!!!!! Lol

[Coach34]

There is a reason DLee keeps getting positive yards and averages 7 ypc. Again- the OL is just fine when he runs it. Is it just coincidence each time they block better for him every time than they do the rest? **** no it's not. He hits the ******* holes and is a good RB. And Aeris is getting better too. Play them

[CadaverDawg]

There is a reason DLee keeps getting positive yards and averages 7 ypc. Again- the OL is just fine when he runs it. Is it just coincidence each time they block better for him every time than they do the rest? **** no it's not. He hits the ******* holes and is a good RB. And Aeris is getting better too. Play them

Boom. Agree

[Maroon_and_white]

I think it's a mix of both.

I think Robinson was absolutely worth 2 points against LSU, but probably not 13 points against A&M.

It's a mix. The OL was better last year, but this year's backs haven't taken full advantage of what the line has done.

LSU game: Shumpert misses tieing 2 point conversion

Tex A&M game: Shumpert missed a 1st down catch on 4th down in aggie territory and A williams fumbled in the red zone.

[Johnson85]

I think it's a mix of both.

I think Robinson was absolutely worth 2 points against LSU, but probably not 13 points against A&M.

It's a mix. The OL was better last year, but this year's backs haven't taken full advantage of what the line has done.

I think Robinson was probably worth close to 13 against A&M. That was where they were vulnerable plus I would assume he would have been less likely to have a costly turnover.

I think I and a lot of people underestimated just how many drives we would kill this year by dropping passes out of the backfield and getting 1 yd gains out of plays blocked well enough to be 4 yd gains. Our RB performance has been much worse than anybody expected, but even if it had been average, those differences add up over the course of a game.

[Coach34]

Shump didn't miss shit on those awful ass passes. He did a great job just to turn his body around to get a hand on the ball. He doesn't run the ball very well- but blaming those plays on him is stupid. The passes were AWFUL

[Maroon_and_white]

Shump didn't miss shit on those awful ass passes. He did a great job just to turn his body around to get a hand on the ball. He doesn't run the ball very well- but blaming those plays on him is stupid. The passes were AWFUL

Jrob would have made those plays was what I was insinuating

[Coach34]

Jrob would have made those plays was what I was insinuating

I'll just disagree. Prescott threw missiles at his inside shoulder while he was running to the left. One of the hardest catches in football.

[Liverpooldawg]

The o line blocks well for passing, and is getting better all the time. They as of yet do not block well in the running game. They are getting better at this too, but they had such a long way to go.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'll just disagree. Prescott threw missiles at his inside shoulder while he was running to the left. One of the hardest catches in football.

Y'all know I don't always agree with 34 but he is spot on here.

[starkvegasdawg]

Shump's biggest problem is that this is enough to tackle him.

http://orig02.deviantart.net/d06c/f/2013/124/4/b/a_blade_of_grass_by_oneworldforhim94-d645fbx.jpg

[Taog Redloh]

Shump didn't miss shit on those awful ass passes. He did a great job just to turn his body around to get a hand on the ball. He doesn't run the ball very well- but blaming those plays on him is stupid. The passes were AWFUL

Yes

[CadaverDawg]

Shump didn't miss shit on those awful ass passes. He did a great job just to turn his body around to get a hand on the ball. He doesn't run the ball very well- but blaming those plays on him is stupid. The passes were AWFUL

Every former player that's been asked, has not only said "Shump shoulda caught em, despite the passes not being good", they also said, "Shump would tell you he's gotta make those plays too". - Wyatt & Hagaan

Bottom line, Shump shouldn't be asked to make those plays, bc he isn't an SEC RB. Blame Dak for not throwing good passes, but they were very catchable by an SEC RB. If anything, it may be on Dan for not having us an SEC back on the field in those spots.

[archdog]

My entire issue about the RB is this, if you go back and watch the spring game. I know its just a spring game and you cannot really take that much from a game like that, but just watch the running backs attitude in that game. How they accelerate into would be tacklers. Man they looked like punishing backs that would attempt to bulldoze someone for an extra yards. Each running back, AW, DL, and Shump all had multiple plays where they would hit another gear when the tackle was coming and they all fell forward for 2 more yards. That is what I am looking for. The hardnose mentality. I have only seen it twice this entire season, once by DL and once by AW. Time for an attitude adjustment.

[Jack Lambert]

Every former player that's been asked, has not only said "Shump shoulda caught em, despite the passes not being good", they also said, "Shump would tell you he's gotta make those plays too". - Wyatt & Hagaan

Bottom line, Shump shouldn't be asked to make those plays, bc he isn't an SEC RB. Blame Dak for not throwing good passes, but they were very catchable by an SEC RB. If anything, it may be on Dan for not having us an SEC back on the field in those spots.

I have watched that play at lest 4 times and he should have caught the ball. It was in his hand, he tripped but it was in his hands, he hit the ground and the ball came out of his hands, hit his chest, went back up to his hands, then the ball hit the ground.

[confucius say]

I have watched that play at lest 4 times and he should have caught the ball. It was in his hand, he tripped but it was in his hands, he hit the ground and the ball came out of his hands, hit his chest, went back up to his hands, then the ball hit the ground.

The one against Lsu would have been a nice catch. The one against aggie should be routine for a sec rb. The problem is shump has the feet and flexibility of a sec full back.

[HoopsDawg]

Jrob would have made those plays was what I was insinuating

absolutely he would have. I think Aeries would have made them too.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think Robinson was probably worth close to 13 against A&M. That was where they were vulnerable plus I would assume he would have been less likely to have a costly turnover.

There's really no way to know, but I feel like this is kind of like drawing a bulls eye around an arrow that already been shot.

I'm willing to say that we'd probably be 6-1 with Robinson, but to say that we'd be undefeated IMO is to completely ignore that we basically played like crap against A&M & had MAJOR o-line problems in the 1st half against LSU

[BB30]

Maybe my eyes deceive me. Of course I don't know the ins and outs on the OL but if that is truly the case that we have a very talented OL that can run block then I agree with the masses put D Lee back there and see what he can do. I still think our O-line is below average and that our young backs have some problems of their own but the only way to learn is by getting in there and letting them learn from mistakes.

[Coach34]

Every former player that's been asked, has not only said "Shump shoulda caught em, despite the passes not being good", they also said, "Shump would tell you he's gotta make those plays too". - Wyatt & Hagaan

Bottom line, Shump shouldn't be asked to make those plays, bc he isn't an SEC RB. Blame Dak for not throwing good passes, but they were very catchable by an SEC RB. If anything, it may be on Dan for not having us an SEC back on the field in those spots.

of course Shump will tell ya he should catch it- it doesn't make the pass any less shitty. And it's not just location- it's the speed of the pass. The speed of the passes didn't give him ample time to get turned AND balanced. Not every QB throws the same speed

[Johnson85]

There's really no way to know, but I feel like this is kind of like drawing a bulls eye around an arrow that already been shot.

I'm willing to say that we'd probably be 6-1 with Robinson, but to say that we'd be undefeated IMO is to completely ignore that we basically played like crap against A&M & had MAJOR o-line problems in the 1st half against LSU

I wouldn't go so far to say we'd be undefeated. I wouldn't even say he'd have definitely resulted in one more win. If we had shown more ability to move the ball and scored more, LSU would have opened up their offense more. Might have resulted in a turnover in our favor, or it might have resulted in another couple of touchdowns for LSU. Same thing goes for A&M. I think they already had their offense opened up, but if we had moved the ball and scored, they might have stayed more focused and still won if we had put another two touchdowns on the board.

But at the same time, if you take possibly our weakest position on offense (unless it's OT) and give us an NFL caliber player to plug in, that's going to make a huge difference. I would expect us to look like a team that would be solidly favored in every remaining game other than Bama rather than a team with a bunch of toss-up games left.

[maroonmania]

The one against Lsu would have been a nice catch. The one against aggie should be routine for a sec rb. The problem is shump has the feet and flexibility of a sec full back.

Flexibility, balance, change of direction, VISION for where space is are all qualities where Shump is lacking as an SEC starting tailback. Doesn't mean Shump isn't a great athlete, just means he is lacking in some areas to be a valuable tailback at this level. I saw all this last year and pointed it out and was shouted down for it. But I just saw WAY too many times last year where there was space for Shumpert to run and he just didn't go there, instead looking for a defender to make contact with. Unless you are Earl Campbell the job of a RB is to avoid defenders, not run at them.

[RougeDawg]

There is a reason DLee keeps getting positive yards and averages 7 ypc. Again- the OL is just fine when he runs it. Is it just coincidence each time they block better for him every time than they do the rest? **** no it's not. He hits the ******* holes and is a good RB. And Aeris is getting better too. Play them

Maybe it's because Shump is hitting the designed hole on the play come hell or high water. He's hitting the 2 hole if that's where the play is designed to go, even if there are 3 o linemen , 2 DLineman and a linebacker in his way.

On the flip side our other RB's have vision, with Dear and Lee being the best. They can tell when the hole isn't there and quickly find another gap or seam in the line and make the cut. Hell, even "arm tackle" Holloway can make the cuts and tell when something isn't there. He's just too petite to break an arm tackle or stay on his feet after first contact. To Shumps defense, maybe his God awful hair is limiting his peripheral vision and that's why he runs it up the back of his lineman the majority of his runs.

[Maroonthirteen]

of course Shump will tell ya he should catch it- it doesn't make the pass any less shitty. And it's not just location- it's the speed of the pass. The speed of the passes didn't give him ample time to get turned AND balanced. Not every QB throws the same speed

I thought on both plays (2pt attempt and ATM failed 4th down) that the route was poorly ran. Shump was on a straight line into the sideline and had his back to Dak. The route should have more arc so his body was turned up field.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Both passes were poorly thrown. Shump was headed toward the sideline on both passes. Dak was supposed to lead him toward the sideline. Could they have been caught probably so but it's ok to criticize Dak for making 2 poor throws. You depend on your best player & Heisman candidate to make those game changing plays.

[Jack Lambert]

Both passes were poorly thrown. Shump was headed toward the sideline on both passes. Dak was supposed to lead him toward the sideline. Could they have been caught probably so but it's ok to criticize Dak for making 2 poor throws. You depend on your best player & Heisman candidate to make those game changing plays.

I agree.

[basedog]

Every former player that's been asked, has not only said "Shump shoulda caught em, despite the passes not being good", they also said, "Shump would tell you he's gotta make those plays too". - Wyatt & Hagaan

Bottom line, Shump shouldn't be asked to make those plays, bc he isn't an SEC RB. Blame Dak for not throwing good passes, but they were very catchable by an SEC RB. If anything, it may be on Dan for not having us an SEC back on the field in those spots.

I pretty much agree. Not good throws but they could have been caught by someone who is more flexible or athletic.

Those games are behind us, nothing is gonna change those results and the constant bitching over and over has gotten as bad as GP with sunshine. Let's move on, we still can have a good season.

[BeastMan]

Shump didn't miss shit on those awful ass passes. He did a great job just to turn his body around to get a hand on the ball. He doesn't run the ball very well- but blaming those plays on him is stupid. The passes were AWFUL

No way no how. An SEC player is supposed to help out his QB and make the catch he gets both hands on. Announcers in both games said the same. Could the ball been placed better? Yes. Are receivers only expected to catch passes that are placed perfectly? Hell no.

[dawgs]

"Their OL has been much better than I actually thought they'd be. They just don't have a Running Back they can depend on. If Robinson was back, MSU is likely 6-1 or 7-0."

If you care what a guy like Huganin thinks...that shoots a major hole in the "it doesn't matter the RB, it's ALL ON THE SHITTY OL!" crowd's theory.

Thoughts?

RB doesn't matter too much so long as the RB has a baseline skill set necessary to effectively run the ball (burst/acceleration, vision, enough power, enough wiggle, etc). The problem is shump is deficient in pretty much all those areas. Our running game would be much better if lee and Williams got a vast majority of the carries. Maybe they aren't as strong in pass protection, but that's a learnable skill that they should have been taught in the last 1.5 years.

[Really Clark?]

RB doesn't matter too much so long as the RB has a baseline skill set necessary to effectively run the ball (burst/acceleration, vision, enough power, enough wiggle, etc). The problem is shump is deficient in pretty much all those areas. Our running game would be much better if lee and Williams got a vast majority of the carries. Maybe they aren't as strong in pass protection, but that's a learnable skill that they should have been taught in the last 1.5 years.

I agree, pass blocking is a learnable skill but the player has to be willing to learn and read defenses. But our RB last year was below average in that regard and he had been here even longer.

[Todd4State]

Maybe my eyes deceive me. Of course I don't know the ins and outs on the OL but if that is truly the case that we have a very talented OL that can run block then I agree with the masses put D Lee back there and see what he can do. I still think our O-line is below average and that our young backs have some problems of their own but the only way to learn is by getting in there and letting them learn from mistakes.

Our o-line is not all world. That said, they are not awful either. I guess the most fair assessment would be to say that they are average. Dak helps them because he can scramble and make plays and is accurate. Our RB's aside from the freshmen make them look bad.

That's what it all boils down to.

[dawgs]

I agree, pass blocking is a learnable skill but the player has to be willing to learn and read defenses. But our RB last year was below average in that regard and he had been here even longer.

And yet our offense last year set records because having a good playmaker at RB outweighs the deficiencies in pass blocking. A guy that is primarily a good pass blocker and decent receiver out of the backfield should be relegated to 3rd down duties.

[DistrictDawg92]

If you are going to school for free to play football, and the game is on the line and a pass hits both of your hands, you should catch it. Pretty simple to me. Yes it's a hard catch, but this isn't high school this is the SEC.

[Really Clark?]

And yet our offense last year set records because having a good playmaker at RB outweighs the deficiencies in pass blocking. A guy that is primarily a good pass blocker and decent receiver out of the backfield should be relegated to 3rd down duties.

And I didn't say anything about any of that. You mentioned in 1 1/2 years they should have been TAUGHT to pass block. They have been taught and so was JRob, doesn't mean anything if they don't learn and use what thy have been taught. And I actually think they both have gotten better and will fine blocking eventually. JRob didn't give a rip. Especially early in his career. If the ball wasn't coming to him, he was really bad about being uninterested in the play if he wasn't involved. He got better but still didn't give is all blocking or just lost focus about that task.

[louisvilledawg]

LSU game: Shumpert misses tieing 2 point conversion

Tex A&M game: Shumpert missed a 1st down catch on 4th down in aggie territory and A williams fumbled in the red zone.

Bingo with shump. He's so frustrating to watch. Field Vision of Helen Keller and hands made out of bricks.

Hell my mom could've caught that A&M pass. 'Course, she's 6'3" 250, runs a 4.5 in the 40

[basedog]

Our o-line is not all world. That said, they are not awful either. I guess the most fair assessment would be to say that they are average. Dak helps them because he can scramble and make plays and is accurate. Our RB's aside from the freshmen make them look bad.

That's what it all boils down to.

Yes in what you are saying, but we lost 4 good offensive lineman, I don't think the guys we replaced them have the experience that they had as a unit. If you want to compare the players we lost versus who replaced them, the ones now would be backups. Also our running backs are not where Josh Robinson was last year. I really thought he was gonna be replaced without a beat but that hasn't happened even if one o the freshmen played most of the snaps.
I do see the offensive lineman getting better and I'm hopeful the freshmen get most of the snaps from here on in. Our o line will be much better next year for sure with more depth.

[Coach34]

Yes in what you are saying, but we lost 4 good offensive lineman.

Who was the 4th?

[DistrictDawg92]

we are atleast 6-1 with Robinson instead of Shump. I'll just leave this here.


http://s19.postimg.org/z0mbz7cxf/image_1.jpghttp://s19.postimg.org/9yjsmd6ib/image_4.jpg


No excuse for Shumpert to not even catch one of the two passes.

[Todd4State]

Yes in what you are saying, but we lost 4 good offensive lineman, I don't think the guys we replaced them have the experience that they had as a unit. If you want to compare the players we lost versus who replaced them, the ones now would be backups. Also our running backs are not where Josh Robinson was last year. I really thought he was gonna be replaced without a beat but that hasn't happened even if one o the freshmen played most of the snaps.
I do see the offensive lineman getting better and I'm hopeful the freshmen get most of the snaps from here on in. Our o line will be much better next year for sure with more depth.

If Lee and Williams would have averaged just 50 yards a game apiece they would have accounted for 600 yards apiece which essentially would have replaced Robinson's production.

Based on their performances, those are reasonable expectations for them- and I would not be surprised that had they been given the opportunity they would have exceeded those numbers.

We chose to play the guys that have Jr. by their name however.

[basedog]

Who was the 4th?

My mistake should have said 3, lots of experience in those guys, I was also including our TE, but he lined up a lot outside last year. We have no one nasty like Day, but we do have 4 juniors starting now (I think) who will be a much better unit next year.

[confucius say]

Both passes were poorly thrown. Shump was headed toward the sideline on both passes. Dak was supposed to lead him toward the sideline. Could they have been caught probably so but it's ok to criticize Dak for making 2 poor throws. You depend on your best player & Heisman candidate to make those game changing plays.

Yes they were both poorly thrown. No question. But the one against aggie was a routine catch.

[tireddawg]

Shump didn't miss shit on those awful ass passes. He did a great job just to turn his body around to get a hand on the ball. He doesn't run the ball very well- but blaming those plays on him is stupid. The passes were AWFUL

It hit his 17'n hands

[Coach34]

It hit his 17'n hands

he had to make a helluva an effort to get his hands on the ball. 1/3 of players wouldnt have even done that much. People are acting like he just put his hands in the air- you're being ridiculous

[tireddawg]

he had to make a helluva an effort to get his hands on the ball. 1/3 of players wouldnt have even done that much. People are acting like he just put his hands in the air- you're being ridiculous

I think he should have caught it, you don't. We agree to disagree, but he needs to do something besides pass block to help this team.

[Coach34]

but he needs to do something besides pass block to help this team.

on that- we 100% agree

[whosyourdawgy]

I'll just disagree. Prescott threw missiles at his inside shoulder while he was running to the left. One of the hardest catches in football.

I hope that play has been thrown in the trash. The angle Shumpert was running and Dak had to make that pass was terrible both times it was run. Either Shumpert had to run more horizontal to his left to give Dak a better shot at hitting his left side or Dak needed to be out further to his left to make the pass. It was like Shump was running directly away from Dak and that's a tough throw to make and a tough pass to catch. Both times it was in the same spot. Behind and a little low. Catchable but tough. And it cost us in probably 2 of the most key plays of our season