Jake Thomas being placed on medical scholarship

[Todd4State]

Possibly per Paul Jones- who is trying to officially confirm with MSU.

Apparently he has had some neck issues in the past and suffered some sort of knee injury in practice a few weeks ago.

[Political Hack]

Damn. Hate it for him if true. He had such a high ceiling.

[HSVDawg]

That sucks. Losing him, Flowers, and not getting Champion until 2017 (if at all) could have a huge negative impact to our OL in a few years.

[AFDawg]

Isn't Flowers expected to return after getting his schoolin' together at Co-Lin?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Isn't Flowers expected to return after getting his schoolin' together at Co-Lin?

Yes should be back in January as long as his grades are in order.

[Taog Redloh]

Just another reason we should be recrootin a minimum of 5 OL every year.

[Really Clark?]

Just another reason we should be recrootin a minimum of 5 OL every year.

I know this sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I think if you consider we redshirt nearly every OL and none leave early for the pro's and we only lose a few to attrition. The rest exhaust their eligibility. I think averaging about 4 max per year is about right. That gives you around 20 at any given time over 5 years minus some attrition where you have a pretty solid 2 deep and a 3 string for development/depth. We play about 8 most years for the bulk of the season.

[Taog Redloh]

I know this sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but I think if you consider we redshirt nearly every OL and none leave early for the pro's and we only lose a few to attrition. The rest exhaust their eligibility. I think averaging about 4 max per year is about right. That gives you around 20 at any given time over 5 years minus some attrition where you have a pretty solid 2 deep and a 3 string for development/depth. We play about 8 most years for the bulk of the season.
Your logic is sound, but I am one of those who thinks that MSU's real chance for sustained success is outside-the-box innovation. We are not going to out-recruit, out-purchase, out-perception, or out-coach everyone. What we CAN do is take a different approach to certain things. When I look back over history and seen what our biggest achilles heel has been, OL always stands out. That's why our QBs have not developed, and that's why we have so many 3-4 win seasons. We are always going to find good defensive players in our recrootin footprint, so if we can shore up the OL somehow, I think we could fix most of our offensive woes over the years, and going forward. So, I say let's build it up beyond belief....let's innovate.....let's build 2 or 3 strings of OL, so we never have a dropoff...spend our money on elite level OL coaches...even if it means we have to sacrifice some other positions in the process. It's that important, IMO.

We always blame the Senior QB Curse on the Dead Indians, but the reality is because we lost offensive linemen.

[Really Clark?]

I see where you are coming from. I just think the numbers hurt you in other spots if you go with a min of 5 OL in each class. That's almost 30% of your scholarships wrapped up in OL. Add 12-15 DL, 12-15 LB, 12-15 DB's, 12 WR, 4 TE, 4 RB, and 4 QB's. That's it if you only commit 12 scholarships for each group with the DL, LB, DB and WR. No special teams and you had better hit a high percentage on the other positions because that's signing only 3 DL on a 4 year avg. 2.4 on a 5 if you nearly always redshirt but we probably wouldn't be able to do that as much. Same goes for LB and DB's. That just looks awful thin at some other spots. Especially DL and DB.

[HSVDawg]

Yes should be back in January as long as his grades are in order.

I hope he makes it back, but won't count on him until he actually does. As far as Champion, I've seen nothing to indicate that he isn't the next J.J. Grant.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I hope he makes it back, but won't count on him until he actually does. As far as Champion, I've seen nothing to indicate that he isn't the next J.J. Grant.

Really not similar at all. He wasn't able to get out of juco in a year. He will be out next December nothing really alarming or different about that.

[War Machine Dawg]

So we're processing Thomas? Nice. Going full on Saban.

/trolling Tusk

[Johnson85]

I see where you are coming from. I just think the numbers hurt you in other spots if you go with a min of 5 OL in each class. That's almost 30% of your scholarships wrapped up in OL. Add 12-15 DL, 12-15 LB, 12-15 DB's, 12 WR, 4 TE, 4 RB, and 4 QB's. That's it if you only commit 12 scholarships for each group with the DL, LB, DB and WR. No special teams and you had better hit a high percentage on the other positions because that's signing only 3 DL on a 4 year avg. 2.4 on a 5 if you nearly always redshirt but we probably wouldn't be able to do that as much. Same goes for LB and DB's. That just looks awful thin at some other spots. Especially DL and DB.

It all depends on what kind of prospects you're signing and what kind of attrition you have. If you're getting 4 prospects you feel good about every year, before attrition you're looking at 12 lineman on the team each season that will have had at least full years on campus, which I think is generally going to be the minimum you need to avoid major growing pains. That means you really only have to hit on 67% of your prospects to fill out an an experienced starting five plus a back-up center, a back-up guard, and a backup tackle. Hopefully you'll also have some guys that are at least serviceable as redshirt freshmen that will give you further depth. That also leaves you with 23.5% of your 85 scholarships tied up in OL, which account for 20.8% to 22.7% of your starting positions (depending on whether you count kicker and punter as a starting position).

If you're hitting on 67% of your OL Prospects consistently and don't have any bad attrition, 4 a year is probably the right number. But, if you're not hitting on 67% of your OL prospects (which I don't think we have been, although I'm not positive), or if you have bad attrition (which I don't think we've had much of at all on teh OL although again, not positive), 4 a year will probably leaving you scrambling some years.

The best approach for MSU is probably to sign 5 OL a year come hell or high water and then process the ones that don't work out to keep them from taking up too many scholarships. It would make things a lot easier if we could consistently get at least one guy from each class that could be a serviceable starter by their second year on campus. We've had several guys come in and play as second year players like Clausell, I think Day, Jenkins, and Calhoun, but I think usually it's been a reflection of not having a good or healthy lineman ahead of them more so than them being ready to play.

[Bubb Rubb]

Just another reason we should be recrootin a minimum of 5 OL every year.

We should go out of state for our OL recruiting, too. Big 10 country. They grow on trees up there. Big, intelligent, hard-working guys with mean streaks.

[HSVDawg]

Really not similar at all. He wasn't able to get out of juco in a year. He will be out next December nothing really alarming or different about that.

Well, he started in JUCO this past January. So, he would have had 3 semesters + 2 summers to get in before the 2016 season. The fact that he isn't making progress towards that goal (and the coaches have already written him off for 2016) when he's not even halfway through that time frame is discouraging. This after he went from being a guy that had a decent shot at qualifying the summer before his senior year to having absolutely no shot over a period of 6 months. Basically, he is 0-for-2 in doing what's asked of him by our staff as far as taking care of his class work.

Anyway, I hope you're right. Maybe he qualifies and signs in 2017 and is ready to see the field in 2018 after he gets his customary JUCO redshirt from Mullen.

[Todd4State]

Well, he started in JUCO this past January. So, he would have had 3 semesters + 2 summers to get in before the 2016 season. The fact that he isn't making progress towards that goal (and the coaches have already written him off for 2016) when he's not even halfway through that time frame is discouraging. This after he went from being a guy that had a decent shot at qualifying the summer before his senior year to having absolutely no shot over a period of 6 months. Basically, he is 0-for-2 in doing what's asked of him by our staff as far as taking care of his class work.

Anyway, I hope you're right. Maybe he qualifies and signs in 2017 and is ready to see the field in 2018 after he gets his customary JUCO redshirt from Mullen.

I think that's why everyone is disappointed- because a lot of people seemed to believe (I was one of them) that he would get out after one year. Same with Myers, and it didn't pan out with either one of them.

I guess I shouldn't expect guys that have trouble qualifying in the first place to all of a sudden push it in JUCO now that I think about it.

[Coach34]

..spend our money on elite level OL coaches...even if it means we have to sacrifice some other positions in the process. It's that important, IMO.

Hevesy was offered the OL job at USC this past January. He turned them down. As far as coaching- he is considered elite. Crootin? Not so much

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Well, he started in JUCO this past January. So, he would have had 3 semesters + 2 summers to get in before the 2016 season. The fact that he isn't making progress towards that goal (and the coaches have already written him off for 2016) when he's not even halfway through that time frame is discouraging. This after he went from being a guy that had a decent shot at qualifying the summer before his senior year to having absolutely no shot over a period of 6 months. Basically, he is 0-for-2 in doing what's asked of him by our staff as far as taking care of his class work.

Anyway, I hope you're right. Maybe he qualifies and signs in 2017 and is ready to see the field in 2018 after he gets his customary JUCO redshirt from Mullen.

The whole point of him going to Juco early was because he wasn't going to qualify. So he went to juco hoping he'd make it out by late summer. Him having 3 semesters & 2 summers is no different than a kid who goes to juco in the fall & then gets out in the spring like Jung (4 semesters & 1 summer). He's making good grades he just won't be able to get out by next summer. After a spring & a summer coaches & kids have a good idea the course load a kid can handle.

[Homedawg]

I think that's why everyone is disappointed- because a lot of people seemed to believe (I was one of them) that he would get out after one year. Same with Myers, and it didn't pan out with either one of them.

I guess I shouldn't expect guys that have trouble qualifying in the first place to all of a sudden push it in JUCO now that I think about it.
No offense, but I don't know why people thought I guy who couldn't graduate from high school was going to graduate from juco in a year. Winning the lottery odds are better.

[HSVDawg]

No offense, but I don't know why people thought I guy who couldn't graduate from high school was going to graduate from juco in a year. Winning the lottery odds are better.

He didn't graduate because our coaches wanted him in JUCO a semester earlier in hopes of getting him in for 2016. He actually dropped out of HS a semester before he was supposed to graduate and got his GED in order to do this. Myers did the same thing.

[HSVDawg]

The whole point of him going to Juco early was because he wasn't going to qualify. So he went to juco hoping he'd make it out by late summer. Him having 3 semesters & 2 summers is no different than a kid who goes to juco in the fall & then gets out in the spring like Jung (4 semesters & 1 summer). He's making good grades he just won't be able to get out by next summer. After a spring & a summer coaches & kids have a good idea the course load a kid can handle.

Of course that is the reason he went to JUCO early. However, that wasn't exactly the plan all along (at least it better not have been). I can't remember exactly when Champion committed but I know it was early, either immediately after Big Dawg Canp or July / August at the latest. Our coaches would have some explaining to do if they accepted the commitment that early from a guy who they knew had no chance of qualifying and allowed him to take up a spot in our class for 6-8 months. End result being less than 6 weeks to find a capable replacement on the OL.

All indications from the recruiting websites and from our staff's handling of Champion's recruitment were that he was, at the time of his commitment, on track to qualify but couldn't afford to screw around much his senior year. He went from that point to having no chance at all just over the course of his senior football season.

[SDDawg]

Possibly per Paul Jones- who is trying to officially confirm with MSU.

Apparently he has had some neck issues in the past and suffered some sort of knee injury in practice a few weeks ago.

Good move for all concerned.