You know it's bad when they start bashing the 2013 crootin class...

[CadaverDawg]

Go to Nafoom for the first time in forever, and I didn't have to go beyond the first post in the first thread, to find this gem...

by RebelBruiser
Oct 19, 2015 9:28 AM

People rarely look at that whole class. They look at the February signing day rating. Then they look at Tunsil, Nkemdiche, Conner, Treadwell, and Engram, and that's it.

The reality is, this is what the 2013 class has given us:

Tunsil
Nkemdiche
Conner
Treadwell
Engram
Adeboyjo
Fadol Brown
Jordan Wilkins

Derek Jones and Kailo Moore play some too, but those 8 players are the only ones contributing regularly on our current roster, and Conner and Tunsil have both been out recently. That's a good list of players, but it's not a good class. That's the type of class that leaves you with zero depth.

Add that to a 2012 class that was good but also lacking in depth, and you can see why a few injuries can cause such a big drop off. We don't have any depth in our classes that make up the 3rd and 4th year players on this roster.

Like it or not, you can't build a great team with 4-5 really great players alone. You have to supplement that with a lot of other good players too. We haven't done that. Time will tell on the 2014 and 2015 classes. They're first and second year players. I think we've got deeper classes there, but we won't know yet.

Point being, we have to recruit better. I think the 2016 class will be a start, but again, that remains to be seen.

I will add though that we also need some serious staff upgrades, including Freeze bringing in someone offensively that's able to challenge him and bring something else to the table besides simply running Freeze's stuff for him. However, I get tired of this discussion about all this talent. I don't see it. Outside of a handful of players at the top of the roster, it's not there.

Thoughts?

[ShotgunDawg]

Bruiser is right!

We've been saying this for years. That class was incredibly top heavy &, due to that, likely won't ever finish above, MSU's more balanced recruiting classes, in the SEC standings for their entire career.

Ole Miss is like the Seattle Mariners or Detroit Tigers of Major League Baseball. They spend like crazy in Free Agency, but produce so little in the form of home grown talent, that they lack depth, can't handle injuries, & have clubhouse factions.

The Mariners & Tigers are always overrated in the preseason because people are attracted to star power, but the devil is in the details.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

He's correct on the talent part. They have very good high end talent (Conner, Nkemdiche, Tunsil, & Treadwell). Then they have some very solid players (Engram, Hilton, Kelly, Adeboyo, etc). The problem is there is a huge drop off after that. They have a pretty talented starting 22 when healthy but they have very little depth at almost every posiition. The only position they have adequate depth is WR & it's still Treadwell or bust most of the time. The DL depth is decent but we saw Saturday you take away RN & that group gets really mediocre really fast. If they can't healthy really quick this season could spiral ouit of control.

[BrunswickDawg]

And even in bashing it, they still won't learn. "Recruiting better" isn't a solution if you don't develop the players you recruit.

[HoopsDawg]

They played Memphis in the 2nd half without Conner, Nkemdiche, Tunsil, CJ Johnson, Conyers, and Isaac Gross. You take all of that talent off the field and they are pretty much CUSA.

[starkvegasdawg]

But Bucky says they finally have the depth to contend for the NC. Surely he isn't lying to make himself look good? He wouldn't do that. (Add as many *** as you personally feel appropriate)

[notsofarawaydawg]

Are y'all noticing Bucky's teeth are harder to see these days? That's because his nose is getting longer and longer every time he opens his mouth about the impending dumpster fire.

[CadaverDawg]

It's funny seeing guys in that thread saying "I knew it would be a down year", and "7-5 was always a possibility this year", and "Gonna have to get rid of Wommack and others".

What? All they were saying preseason was that the D would be even BETTER than last year, and Wommack was a miracle worker. They were thinking Natty. Now watching them change their views is pretty comical.

I said preseason that Golson and Prewitt would be tough to replace. Shacklefird too...but OM people dismissed it as "Bridges and Shepard would show no drop off, may even be better".

[mic]

The problem is they redshirted no one from the 2012 class it was small but they basically all didn't red shirt.
The 2013 had 6-8 kids that were all highly ranked that also left the program
Not to mention the 2 4star quarterbacks that aren't any good.

So you will have any 2011 players that red- shirted
Basically all of the 2012 class
And the Jr's form the "best class ever" that turn pro
All gone after this year.....

Add to that the probation that is coming....
So good luck with all of that...

[Really Clark?]

So again they are realizing something we have been pointing out for years, sort of like their NCAA investigation, but we were told we were SPED and didn't know what we are talking about. We even had so many of even our fans praising that elite defense that some of us questioned if it would sustain. Mainly because by the end of last year it really wasn't elite, losing way too much of an anomaly of production in Golston, and several had heard that the loss of Tom Allen was going to hurt play calling. While it may have be a good defense, elite was very questionable. Now injuries have hurt, but they basically lose Conner and Florida whips them. They are not even a good defense right now. They didn't have depth and had poor LB's but we didn't know what we were talking about. Now another Bruiser manuscript and has anyone of them come out to tear it down or make fun of his post that is similar to what several have said for years from our fanbase?

[Johnson85]

They played Memphis in the 2nd half without Conner, Nkemdiche, Tunsil, CJ Johnson, Conyers, and Isaac Gross. You take all of that talent off the field and they are pretty much CUSA.

Damn, I knew they had injury trouble, but seeing it in one place puts it in perspective. It also shows that for whatever you want to criticize them for, those guys are players. Not sure about Conyers, but the rest of them really change the complexion of their team. Even CJ Johnson, who doesn't belong in the same discussion as Conner, Nkemdichie or Tunsil, makes plays when he's motivated. Gross isn't on their level either, but considering his physical limitations, is pretty damn good at being disruptive when he's healthy.

I guess most teams would completely change when you put 3 of their 4 best players on the sideline, but the difference is still stark when you actually see it. Also shows you just how close Mullen can be. He really only needs to sprinkle one and sometimes two more serious playmakers in each class to really get us to a level where 2014 would be the norm (maybe not being #1 for 5 weeks but being in the playoff discussion) most years when we're healthy.

[Jack Lambert]

I hate to give that Pillow ****ing Ass Sniffer RebelBruiser credit but I agree with him. I have always said you need to sign what you need not just stars.

[smootness]

And even in bashing it, they still won't learn. "Recruiting better" isn't a solution if you don't develop the players you recruit.

Exactly. While that class was top-heavy on signing day, it was only really top-heavy in a 'top 5 class' sense. It had really good depth for an Ole Miss class, it's just that a large number of the solid-to-good group either hasn't panned out or is no longer on campus.

Golson, Hooks, Brassell, Morgan, Brazley, Buchanan, Kincade, Moore...that's a really solid group of recruits on paper that haven't panned out to be much of anything. If you gave us a group of guys rated that highly as the middle-tier group in a recruiting class, I would be pumped. So the solution isn't simply to 'recruit better,' except in the sense that you have to know what you're looking for, recruit to your system, and evaluate talent and attitude correctly. But I have a feeling that's now what they mean by 'recruit better.'

[Dawgbite]

The problem is they redshirted no one from the 2012 class it was small but they basically all didn't red shirt.
The 2013 had 6-8 kids that were all highly ranked that also left the program
Not to mention the 2 4star quarterbacks that aren't any good.

So you will have any 2011 players that red- shirted
Basically all of the 2012 class
And the Jr's form the "best class ever" that turn pro
All gone after this year.....

Add to that the probation that is coming....
So good luck with all of that...

This would be very sobering if I were a bear fan. I don't think we will be as good next year but the Bears could be a train wreck.

[BeardoMSU]

Golson, Hooks, Brassell, Morgan, Brazley, Buchanan, Kincade, Moore...that's a really solid group of recruits on paper

And it should be very alarming that they didn't pan-out. Same thing goes for guys like Tee. That is a lot of players that "somehow" didn't reach anywhere close to their potential. I know the general OM excuse is these were all defective players, but it can't be all on them, with no blame for the lack of development from the coaching staff.

[CJDAWG85]

This has been what their fans refuse to see ever since he was hired. Everything is a "quick fix". Which is why they keep bringing in JUCO QB's. They haven't developed a single player. They have purely relied on raw talent. Name 1 player that has developed into a great player for them under Freeze. Freeze knew going into this job that he had to win now. He couldn't do it the right way and develop depth and build the program.

[chef dixon]

Yea but how about those signings of Lodge and Jefferson? All you need is receivers in football.

[RougeDawg]

Some called me crazy for saying they had a realistic chance to win 5 to 7 games this year. If Bama wouldn't have gifted them a W, 6 would be their ceiling at this point. They aren't better than any of the teams remaining on their schedule. It appears that Florida gAve the blueprint of shutting down the gimmicks. Only time will tell if others use this game plan like Memphis did, Manny included.

[PMDawg]

But that was an "HISTORIC" class!!!!!!! Best 7th ranked class in HISTORY!!!

[Political Hack]

The guy is right. That's a pretty terrible ROI.

[smootness]

And it should be very alarming that they didn't pan-out. Same thing goes for guys like Tee. That is a lot of players that "somehow" didn't reach anywhere close to their potential. I know the general OM excuse is these were all defective players, but it can't be all on them, with no blame for the lack of development from the coaching staff.

But even if they were defective players, that's still on the coaching staff. The solution can't be 'recruit better' if it's the same staff who has missed on evaluations for highly-rated kids in the past.

The list of guys on that team next year who will have been on campus for 3 years is going to be extremely weak. Even Evan Engram could leave.

[FISHDAWG]

It's funny seeing guys in that thread saying "I knew it would be a down year", and "7-5 was always a possibility this year", and "Gonna have to get rid of Wommack and others".

What? All they were saying preseason was that the D would be even BETTER than last year, and Wommack was a miracle worker. They were thinking Natty. Now watching them change their views is pretty comical.

I said preseason that Golson and Prewitt would be tough to replace. Shacklefird too...but OM people dismissed it as "Bridges and Shepard would show no drop off, may even be better".

it's not just that thread ... bitchin, moanin, & groanin going on in minute detail and in mass quantities all over that board - actually sounds like confession over there

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm always amazed when I read Nafoom or another Ole Miss site at how little they care about the NCAA investigation.

They don't discuss it, they don't respect it, & basically take an attitude that it doesn't exist. Just amazing