David Saunders, UNM and Satute of Limitations

[blacklistedbully]

Now debating a UNM fan who's stance has now changed to, "We'll get away with it because the Statute of Limitations protects us".

While it may be correct that Ole Miss might get away with it, all it would take for the NCAA to disregard the SOL is to have sent Ole Miss a NOI by 2014. It's very possible, if not likely that they did this at least in response to the late 2013 allegations uncovered in the ULL investigation.

They already knew by then that Saunders had cheated by setting up that academic fraud scheme with the ACT staffer in Mississippi, They also already knew that he had likely done this in 2005. Given they know he was on Ole Miss' staff from 1998-2002, again in 2006, and again in 2010, don't you think it unlikely they would not have sent a NOI to Ole Miss? How about the fact that the kid that helped bring the NCAA heat onto ULL and Saunders was a recruit that started at Ole Miss, then wound up at ULL?

Anything is possible when it comes to the NCAA, but that would be a tremendous blunder on their part if they didn't send Ole Miss a NOI by late 2013 or 2014, making Saunders time there in 2010 - 2011 fair game.

19.5.11 Statute of Limitations. Allegations included in a notice of allegations shall be limited to possible violations occurring not earlier than four years before the date the notice of inquiry is provided to the institution or the date the institution notifies (or, if earlier, should have notified) the enforcement staff of its inquiries into the matter. However, the following shall not be subject to the four-year limitation: (Adopted: 10/30/12 effective 8/1/13)
(a) Allegations involving violations affecting the eligibility of a current student-athlete;
(b) Allegations in a case in which information is developed to indicate a pattern of willful violations on the part of the institution or individual involved, which began before but continued into the four-year period; and
(c) Allegations that indicate a blatant disregard for the Association?s fundamental recruiting, extra benefit, academic or ethical-conduct bylaws or that involve an effort to conceal the occurrence of the violation. In such cases, the enforcement staff shall have a one-year period after the date information concerning the matter becomes available to the NCAA to investigate and submit to the institution a notice of allegations concerning the matter.

The above highlighted also appears to give the NCAA another possible avenue to disregard the SOL. If the NCAA determines Ole Miss continued to use this ACT testing place to get ACT scores high enough to qualify recruits, they can, indeed go back as far as they want.

[Really Clark?]

You are right. And as you have outlined, the NCAA has ruled in the past (I know they used it in the Miami investigation) that a pattern of willful violations negates the statue of limitations. They can go back as far as they want to, if they determine there is a pattern. There is the possibility they go as far back as 2005, when Saunders and the ACT administrator began their relationship. Saunders on staff with Freeze in 2006.

[blacklistedbully]

LMAO. Not 5 minutes after I posted this thread, it got re-posted on Rivals by Rebel lurker Madzak.

Click an ad, Mad, click an ad. ;)

[Jack Lambert]

LMAO. Not 5 minutes after I posted this thread, it got re-posted on Rivals by Rebel lurker Madzak.

Click an ad, Mad, click an ad. ;)

OLE MISS SUCKS DICKS Madzak and your mother sucked mine. Worst BJ ever!

[blacklistedbully]

Holy shit, I can't believe how stupid these guys are getting.

Now the guy has said he posted that screenshot of my post to prove my only source is ED. Seriously, the guy is accusing me of getting my info from myself!

[MedDawg]

.

[Really Clark?]

Holy shit, I can't believe how stupid these guys are getting.

Now the guy has said he posted that screenshot of my post to prove my only source is ED. Seriously, the guy is accusing me of getting my info from myself!

Desperation can make them even dumber than normal.

[blacklistedbully]

You are right. And as you have outlined, the NCAA has ruled in the past (I know they used it in the Miami investigation) that a pattern of willful violations negates the statue of limitations. They can go back as far as they want to, if they determine there is a pattern. There is the possibility they go as far back as 2005, when Saunders and the ACT administrator began their relationship. Saunders on staff with Freeze in 2006.

One would have to imagine the NCAA is taking a particularly close look at their classes of 2006 and 2011 to determine which recruits took their ACT in Waynesboro. I'd also imagine they would look at all classes since 2006 to see if there is a migration of cheating from Saunders time to after.

Additionally, if they are looking at this stuff intently, the chances of them discovering other violations is much higher.

Does anyone know if the NCAA can compel the ACT folks to provide records for all involved student athletes?

[Westdawg]

Being that the NCAA Clearinghouse is what determines the qualification of prospective student athletes , member institutions and those students have already given the green light to check any and all academic grades and testing. BOOM.

[Really Clark?]

One would have to imagine the NCAA is taking a particularly close look at their classes of 2006 and 2011 to determine which recruits took their ACT in Waynesboro. I'd also imagine they would look at all classes since 2006 to see if there is a migration of cheating from Saunders time to after.

Additionally, if they are looking at this stuff intently, the chances of them discovering other violations is much higher.

Does anyone know if the NCAA can compel the ACT folks to provide records for all involved student athletes?

They don't have to compel as far as scores go, or at least the Universities don't. ULL worked with and requested several documents from the ACT during all this. They will be working together once irregularities are discovered. You do have to get permission from the student and/or the person who paid for the testing to get the financial part though. That was part of what was being stonewalled in the investigation with Saunders.

[maroonmania]

So #TheNetwork only has to cover their tracks for 4 years? I mean even tax cheaters have to cover their tracks for 7 years.

[Thrill1]

Maybe I've missed this being posted somewhere else, but has anyone else, media included, looked at the year 2006 more in depth. The OP got me thinking - why hasn't anyone bright up the fact Saunders AND Freeze served on the same staff, ironically the same year they recruited Powe. You can't tell me Freeze and other staffers disnt know what Saunders was up to and quite easily used his services more recently.

[Really Clark?]

So #TheNetwork only has to cover their tracks for 4 years? I mean even tax cheaters have to cover their tracks for 7 years.

Not necessarily. If the NCAA decides they have a pattern of willful violations, then they can go back as far as they want. They did with Miami. So the Statute of Limitations become moot, if they decide there is a pattern.

[Really Clark?]

Maybe I've missed this being posted somewhere else, but has anyone else, media included, looked at the year 2006 more in depth. The OP got me thinking - why hasn't anyone bright up the fact Saunders AND Freeze served on the same staff, ironically the same year they recruited Powe. You can't tell me Freeze and other staffers disnt know what Saunders was up to and quite easily used his services more recently.

Well we have talked about it here. But we are just Elitedawg conspiracy nuts.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Now debating a UNM fan who's stance has now changed to, "We'll get away with it because the Statute of Limitations protects us".

While it may be correct that Ole Miss might get away with it, all it would take for the NCAA to disregard the SOL is to have sent Ole Miss a NOI by 2014. It's very possible, if not likely that they did this at least in response to the late 2013 allegations uncovered in the ULL investigation.

They already knew by then that Saunders had cheated by setting up that academic fraud scheme with the ACT staffer in Mississippi, They also already knew that he had likely done this in 2005. Given they know he was on Ole Miss' staff from 1998-2002, again in 2006, and again in 2010, don't you think it unlikely they would not have sent a NOI to Ole Miss? How about the fact that the kid that helped bring the NCAA heat onto ULL and Saunders was a recruit that started at Ole Miss, then wound up at ULL?

Anything is possible when it comes to the NCAA, but that would be a tremendous blunder on their part if they didn't send Ole Miss a NOI by late 2013 or 2014, making Saunders time there in 2010 - 2011 fair game.

19.5.11 Statute of Limitations. Allegations included in a notice of allegations shall be limited to possible violations occurring not earlier than four years before the date the notice of inquiry is provided to the institution or the date the institution notifies (or, if earlier, should have notified) the enforcement staff of its inquiries into the matter. However, the following shall not be subject to the four-year limitation: (Adopted: 10/30/12 effective 8/1/13)
(a) Allegations involving violations affecting the eligibility of a current student-athlete;
(b) Allegations in a case in which information is developed to indicate a pattern of willful violations on the part of the institution or individual involved, which began before but continued into the four-year period; and
(c) Allegations that indicate a blatant disregard for the Association?s fundamental recruiting, extra benefit, academic or ethical-conduct bylaws or that involve an effort to conceal the occurrence of the violation. In such cases, the enforcement staff shall have a one-year period after the date information concerning the matter becomes available to the NCAA to investigate and submit to the institution a notice of allegations concerning the matter.

The above highlighted also appears to give the NCAA another possible avenue to disregard the SOL. If the NCAA determines Ole Miss continued to use this ACT testing place to get ACT scores high enough to qualify recruits, they can, indeed go back as far as they want.
Om steals a recruit from MSU? Meh. Om steals one from Bammer, Georgia, and Michigan? Om will get hit like a Hammer from the gods.

[Coach34]

Well we have talked about it here. But we are just Elitedawg conspiracy nuts.

C'mon Mane- Saunders was the only one that knew the ACT secrets and took all that info with him to ULL. Freezus don't know nuttin

[Really Clark?]

C'mon Mane- Saunders was the only one that knew the ACT secrets and took all that info with him to ULL. Freezus don't know nuttin

That's right. Nothing to see here. Just one rogue coach. I bet they, being the stickler for the rules as they are, were the ones who tipped off the NCAA. I'm sure Boone didn't have any knowledge of Saunders being rogue either did he. At least now it appears we know why he pitched a fit and cut Saunders out of an on the field position that was part of the negotiations to keep Nutt at UNM when he threatened to go to another school.

[starkvegasdawg]

That's right. Nothing to see here. Just one rouge coach. I bet they, being the stickler for the rules as they are, were the ones who tipped off the NCAA. I'm sure Boone didn't have any knowledge of Saunders being rouge either did he. At least now it appears we know why he pitched a fit and cut Saunders out of an on the field position that was part of the negotiations to keep Nutt at UNM when he threatened to go to another school.

I hate to do this. I really do. But my OCD just went into meltdown and left me no choice.

rouge - a red powder or cream applied to the face
rogue - a loner acting on his own with ill intent

[Really Clark?]

I hate to do this. I really do. But my OCD just went into meltdown and left me no choice.

rouge - a red powder or cream applied to the face
rogue - a loner acting on his own with ill intent

Ha. Thanks. I don't know if I did that or the phone but thanks for the correct

[QuadrupleOption]

I hate to do this. I really do. But my OCD just went into meltdown and left me no choice.

rouge - a red powder or cream applied to the face
rogue - a loner acting on his own with ill intent

Yeah, mine kicked in on something else.

Guys, it's Statute of Limitations, not Statue of Limitations.

[DancingRabbit]

Yeah, mine kicked in on something else.

Guys, it's Statute of Limitations, not Statue of Limitations.

And that's a good thing. Otherwise, a noose might be in play.

[BossDawg]

It's pretty simple. Ole Miss head coach Hugh Freeze worked for and recruited for Ole Miss in 2006 and 2007. Anything that happened then and since then would be fair game.

I think one of the main reasons UMiss hired Freeze is because he's a recruiting nut just like them. He has that "recruit at any cost" mentality and has emphasized it many times. Like after the '13 EB, when he basically told his entire team they didn't cut it and that they were gonna recruit better to make sure it didn't happen again.

[BrunswickDawg]

And that's a good thing. Otherwise, a noose might be in play.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DancingRabbit again.

[Mjoelner34]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DancingRabbit again.

^^^THIS^^^

[JDog13]

LMAO. Not 5 minutes after I posted this thread, it got re-posted on Rivals by Rebel lurker Madzak.

Click an ad, Mad, click an ad. ;)

Hey, don't make fun of Madzak. He's mentally challenged. He probably doesn't understand they have ED in their favorites, and feels he's making himself important. Seriously, dude is a space cadet.