Traver Jung

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Is he being redshirted? I haven't heard his name mentioned much this year.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yes

[msstate7]

Yes

We RS too many juco players. Why do we struggle with juco evaluation or am I wrong on this?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

We RS too many juco players. Why do we struggle with juco evaluation or am I wrong on this?

He didn't get to campus until June. Coleman didn't have a choice. Joq was injured. Rankin & Jung are the only healthy guys we've chosen to RS. Why waste a year on Jung when he had only been on a campus a couple of months?

[msstate7]

He didn't get to campus until June. Coleman didn't have a choice. Joq was injured. Rankin & Jung are the only healthy guys we've chosen to RS. Why waste a year on Jung when he had only been on a campus a couple of months?

Assuming he's good bc we're really weak at olb imo

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Assuming he's good bc we're really weak at olb imo

He wasn't going to be better than JT Gray IMO & Beni rarely comes off the field.

[msstate7]

He wasn't going to be better than JT Gray IMO & Beni rarely comes off the field.

Is he better than Zach Jackson? If so, we could use him this year

[NCDawg]

Which raises the question-have we ever had a JC player to play the first year under Mullen? Sherrill signed a bunch of them during his tenure which played right away-such as JJ Johnson, Ed Smith, Randy Thomas, Smoot, Bean, Love, etc. We wouldn't have won the SECW in '98 otherwise.

[Johnson85]

He didn't get to campus until June. Coleman didn't have a choice. Joq was injured. Rankin & Jung are the only healthy guys we've chosen to RS. Why waste a year on Jung when he had only been on a campus a couple of months?

I would rather RS a player than waste their junior year playing special teams like we did with Slay (although he was probably going to leave regardless; I think the bigger question is why an NFL talent like him didn't merit a spot at CB even in his first year on campus), but I do question whether we should be going after JUCO players that aren't ready to play immediately.

I guess with as much redshirting as we do with HS players, taking JUCO players, even when they redshirt, helps the numbers work out.

[Really Clark?]

Which raises the question-have we ever had a JC player to play the first year under Mullen? Sherrill signed a bunch of them during his tenure which played right away-such as JJ Johnson, Ed Smith, Randy Thomas, Smoot, Bean, Love, etc. We wouldn't have won the SECW in '98 otherwise.

Totally different today than back then. A lot more quality players qualify today compared to then. There are still some impact guys but not like it use to be. We have had several 1st JUCO guys play under Mullen. White, Ballard, Berry, Gray this year, etc.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Which raises the question-have we ever had a JC player to play the first year under Mullen? Sherrill signed a bunch of them during his tenure which played right away-such as JJ Johnson, Ed Smith, Randy Thomas, Smoot, Bean, Love, etc. We wouldn't have won the SECW in '98 otherwise.

Pernell Mcphee, Vick Ballard, Chris White, Leon Berry, Denico Autry, Charles Siddoway, & Justin Cox.

[Really Clark?]

Pernell Mcphee, Vick Ballard, Chris White, Leon Berry, Denico Autry, Charles Siddoway, & Justin Cox.

Calvin this year, Hutcherson, Chappelle, Slay, Cherrington. Carmon Holley and Trapp I can't remember exactly on them

[HSVDawg]

He didn't get to campus until June. Coleman didn't have a choice. Joq was injured. Rankin & Jung are the only healthy guys we've chosen to RS. Why waste a year on Jung when he had only been on a campus a couple of months?

Joq still isn't playing, Coleman has been largely a nonfactor. Then you have Jung and Rankin as mentioned. Then you look at the past at guys like Joey Trapp, etc. In 7 years we've gotten three immediate impact guys (all the same year) in McPhee, White, and Ballard. We've gotten 1 guy who saw limited PT when he first came in but eventually became a very solid player in Slay. Then you had Siddoway and Autry who stepped in and played for two years but never really excelled, Justin Cox who played both years and was a massive disappointment, and Leon Berry who was mostly just a return specialist and also got injured. Everyone else was either a complete bust or wasn't ready to contribute immediate PT so the jury is still out (or possibly both).

Long story short, our JUCO evaluations haven't been up to par. Without counting, I'd estimate that we have signed around 18 - 20 JUCO's in Mullen's tenure, with only 4 - 6 of those guys truly panning out, depending on your definition of what that means. We have some guys we are still waiting on, but right now our success rate is well under 50%. I'd much rather just go after a high school kid where we can control their development 100% for those 2-3 years before they step in as opposed to our current status quo with JUCO kids.

[Really Clark?]

Nm

[NCDawg]

Pernell Mcphee, Vick Ballard, Chris White, Leon Berry, Denico Autry, Charles Siddoway, & Justin Cox.

OK, you answered my question. Guess I should have done more research before asking.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Joq still isn't playing, Coleman has been largely a nonfactor. Then you have Jung and Rankin as mentioned. Then you look at the past at guys like Joey Trapp, etc. In 7 years we've gotten three immediate impact guys (all the same year) in McPhee, White, and Ballard. We've gotten 1 guy who saw limited PT when he first came in but eventually became a very solid player in Slay. Then you had Siddoway and Autry who stepped in and played for two years but never really excelled, Justin Cox who played both years and was a massive disappointment, and Leon Berry who was mostly just a return specialist and also got injured. Everyone else was either a complete bust or wasn't ready to contribute immediate PT so the jury is still out (or possibly both).

Long story short, our JUCO evaluations haven't been up to par. Without counting, I'd estimate that we have signed around 18 - 20 JUCO's in Mullen's tenure, with only 4 - 6 of those guys truly panning out, depending on your definition of what that means. We have some guys we are still waiting on, but right now our success rate is well under 50%. I'd much rather just go after a high school kid where we can control their development 100% for those 2-3 years before they step in as opposed to our current status quo with JUCO kids.

I guess my question is what is your definition of panning out? Of course White, Mcphee, & Ballard were 2yr starters who all were drafted. Darius Slay started 1yr & was drafted. I don't see how you can say guys like Siddoway, Autry, & Berry who were 2yr starters didn't pan out. I guess you could say Cox didn't pan out do to off the field issues. Also our Juco evals aren't up to par compared to who? What other schools are we comparing them to? OM? SEC West? The entire SEC? Is our Juco rate so much less than the other schools? Those are the questions I would ask.

[defiantdog]

I guess my question is what is your definition of panning out? Of course White, Mcphee, & Ballard were 2yr starters who all were drafted. Darius Slay started 1yr & was drafted. I don't see how you can say guys like Siddoway, Autry, & Berry who were 2yr starters didn't pan out. I guess you could say Cox didn't pan out do to off the field issues. Also our Juco evals aren't up to par compared to who? What other schools are we comparing them to? OM? SEC West? The entire SEC? Is our Juco rate so much less than the other schools? Those are the questions I would ask.

JUCO's are hit and miss for every school. Everyone expects to get a Cam Newton out of the deal. Jovon Robinson was supposed to be the next Bo Jackson for Auburn, yet he has been a non-factor for them this year. I've never understood the obsession for JUCOs. You either get a Donald Gray, who's ready to play in the SEC. Or you get a Justin Cox who needs a year to develop, leaving you with one year to contribute.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I too agree that we are redshirting way too many Juco's. Is there a benefit in investing in a Juco guy to possibly lose a year or two of eligibility while they learn in someone else's system over a high school guy that is not highly rated? Other than Cox, what Juco has made an impact that signed with us and we placed in Juco?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I too agree that we are redshirting way too many Juco's. Is there a benefit in investing in a Juco guy to possibly lose a year or two of eligibility while they learn in someone else's system over a high school guy that is not highly rated? Other than Cox, what Juco has made an impact that signed with us and we placed in Juco?

Slay

[defiantdog]

I too agree that we are redshirting way too many Juco's. Is there a benefit in investing in a Juco guy to possibly lose a year or two of eligibility while they learn in someone else's system over a high school guy that is not highly rated? Other than Cox, what Juco has made an impact that signed with us and we placed in Juco?

Potentially Donald Gray

[BiscuitEater]

... but I do question whether we should be going after JUCO players that aren't ready to play immediately.

I guess with as much redshirting as we do with HS players, taking JUCO players, even when they redshirt, helps the numbers work out.

It does help with the numbers .. we only lose a ~14 - 16 .. depending on 'who' you count. We lose a TON next year (current JRs) RS'ing a couple of JC players will help level out the next two classes.

[Really Clark?]

I too agree that we are redshirting way too many Juco's. Is there a benefit in investing in a Juco guy to possibly lose a year or two of eligibility while they learn in someone else's system over a high school guy that is not highly rated? Other than Cox, what Juco has made an impact that signed with us and we placed in Juco?

Before these last two years with the players mentioned, who have we redshirted? Maybe someone but I can't think of who. We did place Gray and Slay as well. I don't know if they count because they went to Hargrave but Coman and Samuel were signed then resigned.

[Johnson85]

I guess my question is what is your definition of panning out? Of course White, Mcphee, & Ballard were 2yr starters who all were drafted. Darius Slay started 1yr & was drafted. I don't see how you can say guys like Siddoway, Autry, & Berry who were 2yr starters didn't pan out. I guess you could say Cox didn't pan out do to off the field issues. Also our Juco evals aren't up to par compared to who? What other schools are we comparing them to? OM? SEC West? The entire SEC? Is our Juco rate so much less than the other schools? Those are the questions I would ask.

Siddoway, Autry, and Berry all panned out. They filled holes, even if Autry wasn't quite the talent he was hyped up to be. I'm pretty sure Berry would be riding the pine for us this year although that might not be fair to say.

My complaint about our JUCO recruiting is that for most years in Mullen's tenure, we have had at least one major, major hole in our starting line-up that we needed to fill to significantly change our team. We badly needed a JUCO RB this year. We really needed an OT in 2011. We really, really needed a pass rusher in 2012. We really, really, needed a free safety to put back there instead of Toast in 2009 (obviously hard to blame mullen for his first year).

I'm not sure if it's a fair criticism, but it seems like we have been just a solid JUCO player away from significantly improving our weak link several years and really the only time we addressed a need was with Siddoway and Autry. I guess they could get credit for Rankin this year; obvioulsy he ended up not being ready, but he was highly rated. Not sure if the coaches knew or should have known he wasn't a fix for this year.

I understand that big time impact players aren't available every year from JUCO and MSU is recruiting against everybody else when they are available, but I'm surprised that when we can offer immediate playing time for a bowl team, and all we need is a serviceable SEC player, that we can't do that at least half the time or a little better. But I'm certainly not keeping up with JUCO players, so maybe that's completely unrealistic.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Nobody thought we needed to sign a Juco RB this past class. I can't recall 1 person saying that from Dec - Feb during recruiting. If you did I apologize but this is a hindsight is 20-20 type of deal. 2011 we tried with Trapp it just turned into a massive failure. 2012 we signed a 5* Juco DE in Denico Autry.

[Really Clark?]

You mentioned needing a pass rusher in 2012. That's the year we signed Autry. The best JUCO running back last year was Kimara who went to Tenn and the two top rated in this state went to UTSA and New Mexico. There were very few that went to Power 5 schools and Kimara and the RB at Kansas are the only two that have done much I believe. Abbington at MO is the 5th leading rusher with 27 yards and Jermey Smith at Louisville has 74 yards on the year.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Slay

A good one for sure...we'll add Coman as well and make it 3 that have been worth the investment. What are you thoughts on the first question? As it stands now, which Jucos will be apart of the 2016 class?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

A good one for sure...we'll add Coman as well and make it 3 that have been worth the investment. What are you thoughts on the first question? As it stands now, which Jucos will be apart of the 2016 class?

Lashard Durr & Tre Brown for sure. I don't consider Kent Flowers a Juco guy he's just coming back to his old scholarship. After that I don't know if you can say we'll have another guy for sure.

[msstate7]

Lashard Durr & Tre Brown for sure. I don't consider Kent Flowers a Juco guy he's just coming back to his old scholarship. After that I don't know if you can say we'll have another guy for sure.

Is flowers good enough to take one of those guard spots in your opinion?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Is flowers good enough to take one of those guard spots in your opinion?

Will definitely be a good battle between Flowers & Calhoun. Coming out of spring Flowers was the 3rd Guard.

[Johnson85]

Nobody thought we needed to sign a Juco RB this past class. I can't recall 1 person saying that from Dec - Feb during recruiting. If you did I apologize but this is a hindsight is 20-20 type of deal.

I don't expect fans to know whether or not we need a JUCO RB, but I feel like the coaches have seen enough of Shumpert in practice that they should have known whether he could cut it as our primary run threat or not. I know some people perform differently in practice versus a game, but that seems like it would be much less of an issue with running the ball as opposed to passing, catching or kicking. Maybe he has some weird mental block going on and there was legitimately no way for the coaches to know he would perform like this.

It seems like as run heavy as we traditionally have liked to be, if it's not clear Shumpert can be a primary run threat and neither of the upcoming RS Freshman RBs have earned playing tiem yet, you try to get a JUCO RB to make sure you have an option.

But again, I don't follow JUCO, so maybe there was literally not a single SEC quality runner that they saw that they could get in the door with.

[Johnson85]

You mentioned needing a pass rusher in 2012. That's the year we signed Autry.

I guess I was thinking of 2011, in which case we badly needed an OT and a DE. I don't expect to be able to fill multiple holes consistently with JUCO unless you just get lucky with what's available.


The best JUCO running back last year was Kimara who went to Tenn and the two top rated in this state went to UTSA and New Mexico. There were very few that went to Power 5 schools and Kimara and the RB at Kansas are the only two that have done much I believe. Abbington at MO is the 5th leading rusher with 27 yards and Jermey Smith at Louisville has 74 yards on the year.

So I guess JUCO just isn't what it used to be. Was thinking there were pretty much a few solid power five players at every position but QB coming out of JUCO each year.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Lashard Durr & Tre Brown for sure. I don't consider Kent Flowers a Juco guy he's just coming back to his old scholarship. After that I don't know if you can say we'll have another guy for sure.

Anything on Cooper, Harris, or Pierce? Are we counting on Champion and Myers to be impact players if they every make it?

[dawgs]

Imo if a juco can't come in and start or play a key 2nd team role in their 1st year on campus, we probably shouldn't have signed them and instead invested in a HS kid.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Anything on Cooper, Harris, or Pierce? Are we counting on Champion and Myers to be impact players if they every make it?

I just don't see us keeping Cooper but I could be wrong. I just don't see the need for him at DE. Harris isn't playing football I don't think. We're expecting Pierce next December he's a 2017 kid. He's leading his team in receptions & also returns kicks for them. Champion & Myers are going to be 2017 kids. I expect Champion to challege for a starting spot. I need to see more of Myers playing strictly CB. He has the talent just needs all the reps he can get in the next year & a half.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I just don't see us keeping Cooper but I could be wrong. I just don't see the need for him at DE. Harris isn't playing football I don't think. We're expecting Pierce next December he's a 2017 kid. He's leading his team in receptions & also returns kicks for them. Champion & Myers are going to be 2017 kids. I expect Champion to challege for a starting spot. I need to see more of Myers playing strictly CB. He has the talent just needs all the reps he can get in the next year & a half.

Thanks for the update and I'm not trying to come of confrontational about it, but it's a little concerning as it stands now. Curious, once we sign and place a guy at at Juco, how much investment is made by our staff in the prospect?

[tcdog70]

We RS too many juco players. Why do we struggle with juco evaluation or am I wrong on this?

Yep you are wrong. if you can Redshirt JUCO or regular player and get 2 productive years out of them then a redshirt is warranted. The Starting tackle for A&M was a JUCO from Scooba who redshirted and is now starting and doing OK. We have to be careful in calling JUCO's bust just because they don't become an allstar. If they provide needed depth for 2 years then the scholly was used properly. Now Tee--that is a Bust.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Thanks for the update and I'm not trying to come of confrontational about it, but it's a little concerning as it stands now. Curious, once we sign and place a guy at at Juco, how much investment is made by our staff in the prospect?

I enjoy the back & forth. The effort to keep the kid depends on the talent of the kid. Almost always we bring the kid back though if he completes his juco requirements.

[Johnson85]

We're expecting Pierce next December he's a 2017 kid. He's leading his team in receptions & also returns kicks for them.

The TE prospect from Florida? Or is this another recruit?

[smootness]

I guess my question is what is your definition of panning out? Of course White, Mcphee, & Ballard were 2yr starters who all were drafted. Darius Slay started 1yr & was drafted. I don't see how you can say guys like Siddoway, Autry, & Berry who were 2yr starters didn't pan out. I guess you could say Cox didn't pan out do to off the field issues. Also our Juco evals aren't up to par compared to who? What other schools are we comparing them to? OM? SEC West? The entire SEC? Is our Juco rate so much less than the other schools? Those are the questions I would ask.

This is the key. JUCOs are extremely hit-or-miss across the board. I think some people see these guys as surer things than HS players, but in reality they're just not. Take a look through the years at this ranking (http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-jc50/2015) and see how many names you know.

Just looking at Ole Miss' guys, I'd say we've definitely done better. Hooks did basically nothing, Brassell did literally nothing, Shepard played in, what? 3 games? 4? Remember Jonathon Rumph, the big-time WR we were bummed we missed out on in 2013? In his 2 years at UGA, he caught 18 passes for fewer than 300 yards. Quantavius Leslie, the other stud JUCO WR that year, who went to LSU? He caught one pass as a junior and zero as a senior.

And even some of those who 'pan out,' like Shepard and Duke Williams, don't stick around long. I understand the frustration with some of our JUCOs, but this is reality across the board in college football. Anyone depending on a JUCO to step in and be very good right away is probably going to be disappointed.

[Todd4State]

It's a different era right now than it was when Jackie was our coach. The reality is there aren't very many quick fixes out there- maybe a transfer like Lambert at Georgia but as we have seen with Coker at Bama that can be hit and miss as well.

As fans we just need to accept the fact that any JUCO player we sign is more than likely going to have to redshirt.

For the most part we are better off relying mostly on high school talent and developing it which is what we are doing right now.

[HSVDawg]

I guess my question is what is your definition of panning out? Of course White, Mcphee, & Ballard were 2yr starters who all were drafted. Darius Slay started 1yr & was drafted. I don't see how you can say guys like Siddoway, Autry, & Berry who were 2yr starters didn't pan out.

To me when it comes to JUCO recruiting, whether or not a guy is considered to have "panned out" is all about opportunity cost. By that, I mean its not based on whether or not the guy was a starter or how much he played, but rather how much of an upgrade that particular player is over the guy that would be playing if the JUCO had gone elsewhere.

White, McPhee, and Ballard were of course all very good if not elite talents from day one, so nobody questions whether or not they panned out. Same with Slay except it took him a little longer to learn the ropes. After those 4 guys you get into a little bit of a gray area. Leon Berry was an average WR but very good in the return game. He also was signed when we were woefully thin at the WR position and he wasn't a liability, so I would say he panned out. Siddoway never really lived up to the hype, but I can trust the coaches judgment that he was likely a significant upgrade from Damien Robinson, so I would also say he panned out. With Autry, I'm not so sure. He never really lived up to the hype either, but the guy behind him was much more talented (Preston Smith). I think its very likely that if Autry never came that Smith could have easily equaled if not exceeded Autry's production those first two years. So, I would say that Autry didn't pan out, but for the sake of argument lets just put him in the camp of guys that did.

Now, in 7 years Mullen has signed a total of 19 JUCO's. Of those 19, only the 7 above (including Autry) were able to be considered worth signing. The others are either mostly forgettable or jury is still out (in the case of Gray, Jung, and Rankin). So, lets remove those 3 guys from the equation. What you're left with is 7 out of 16 players "panning out" (about 43% at best) and only 4 of those 7 truly being impact players (less than 25%).

I think these numbers clearly indicate an issue with our JUCO evaluations. You only get 2 years out of these guys, so ideally you want to hit on a much higher percentage than we are currently. Also consider that 3 of the 4 big impact players were all in Mullen's first two classes when we were still hurting for depth post-Croom. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think a big factor in the late misses is that we've been able to evaluate and develop well from the HS ranks, and JUCO's can't just come right in and start anymore. It's very possible that we have outgrown the need for JUCO's except in very special circumstances, which is a good thing.

[Schultzy]

I would think 43% is a good percentage if you only sign 3 per year.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

To me when it comes to JUCO recruiting, whether or not a guy is considered to have "panned out" is all about opportunity cost. By that, I mean its not based on whether or not the guy was a starter or how much he played, but rather how much of an upgrade that particular player is over the guy that would be playing if the JUCO had gone elsewhere.

White, McPhee, and Ballard were of course all very good if not elite talents from day one, so nobody questions whether or not they panned out. Same with Slay except it took him a little longer to learn the ropes. After those 4 guys you get into a little bit of a gray area. Leon Berry was an average WR but very good in the return game. He also was signed when we were woefully thin at the WR position and he wasn't a liability, so I would say he panned out. Siddoway never really lived up to the hype, but I can trust the coaches judgment that he was likely a significant upgrade from Damien Robinson, so I would also say he panned out. With Autry, I'm not so sure. He never really lived up to the hype either, but the guy behind him was much more talented (Preston Smith). I think its very likely that if Autry never came that Smith could have easily equaled if not exceeded Autry's production those first two years. So, I would say that Autry didn't pan out, but for the sake of argument lets just put him in the camp of guys that did.

Now, in 7 years Mullen has signed a total of 19 JUCO's. Of those 19, only the 7 above (including Autry) were able to be considered worth signing. The others are either mostly forgettable or jury is still out (in the case of Gray, Jung, and Rankin). So, lets remove those 3 guys from the equation. What you're left with is 7 out of 16 players "panning out" (about 43% at best) and only 4 of those 7 truly being impact players (less than 25%).

I think these numbers clearly indicate an issue with our JUCO evaluations. You only get 2 years out of these guys, so ideally you want to hit on a much higher percentage than we are currently. Also consider that 3 of the 4 big impact players were all in Mullen's first two classes when we were still hurting for depth post-Croom. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think a big factor in the late misses is that we've been able to evaluate and develop well from the HS ranks, and JUCO's can't just come right in and start anymore. It's very possible that we have outgrown the need for JUCO's except in very special circumstances, which is a good thing.

So again my question is that a bad % compared to what? The rest of the SEC? The rest of the country? Are these % lower than the rest of the schools? On par? Above? That's my question. How do you know we've been subpar in our Juco evals unless you compare them to everyone else.

[Coach34]

How is Cox not in the "panned out" category? Terrible ending- but he was a big part of our Egg Bowl win in 2013 and our march to #1. Was he even on the team when we lost to Bama? Losing him hurt- he was a big part of the Secondary

[Schultzy]

How is Cox not in the "panned out" category? Terrible ending- but he was a big part of our Egg Bowl win in 2013 and our march to #1. Was he even on the team when we lost to Bama? Losing him hurt- he was a big part of the Secondary

Yeah, that was a big time INT in the egg out jumping Moncrief for that ball and keeping his foot in bounds in a close game.

I think the Bama game was his last, he was in position but whiffed on a long ball against their #9 Heisman receiver.

But overall I'd call him a panned out too.

[HSVDawg]

How is Cox not in the "panned out" category? Terrible ending- but he was a big part of our Egg Bowl win in 2013 and our march to #1. Was he even on the team when we lost to Bama? Losing him hurt- he was a big part of the Secondary

In my opinion, aside from the off the field stuff Cox was constantly out of position and didn't seem to have any instincts for the safety position. His only memorable moments were the interception of Wallace in the Egg Bowl and diving pic to seal the Auburn game (which we likely would have won anyways) on a duck throw caused by Chris Jones. Otherwise, he was subpar. And yes he was on the team when we lost to Bama and let Cooper get behind him on that big play over the middle where he was tackled at the 3 shortly before the overturned fumble call. All that from a guy who was supposedly the second coming of Ed Reed when he was coming out of JUCO. Kid was just an elite athlete that wasn't that great of a football player. Part of his problem was playing out of position his Jr year, but I don't think it made that big of a difference.

[HSVDawg]

So again my question is that a bad % compared to what? The rest of the SEC? The rest of the country? Are these % lower than the rest of the schools? On par? Above? That's my question. How do you know we've been subpar in our Juco evals unless you compare them to everyone else.

I think those are all valid questions, but another perhaps more important question is how does this percentage compare to our percentage of our high school recruits panning out? That is especially even more relevant considering that we are redshirting a lot of these JUCO's. Just to clarify, I don't think we are recruiting enough JUCO's to cause a problem with our overall talent level even if we don't hit on a good percentage of them. But, I can guarantee you our "pan out" percentage is a lot higher than 43% for the high school kids that Mullen has brought in. All things being equal, I'd prefer high school kids over JUCO's except for nonqualifiers that we place or other very special circumstances with an elite talent where we somehow get the inside track.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I think those are all valid questions, but another perhaps more important question is how does this percentage compare to our percentage of our high school recruits panning out? That is especially even more relevant considering that we are redshirting a lot of these JUCO's. Just to clarify, I don't think we are recruiting enough JUCO's to cause a problem with our overall talent level even if we don't hit on a good percentage of them. But, I can guarantee you our "pan out" percentage is a lot higher than 43% for the high school kids that Mullen has brought in. All things being equal, I'd prefer high school kids over JUCO's except for nonqualifiers that we place or other very special circumstances with an elite talent where we somehow get the inside track.

That's kind of an unfair comparison. We only take on average 3 Juco's a year. So if almost 1.50 of those guys pan out is that a terrible %. Again I'd rather compare that juco % to other schools to know if it's poor, average, or good.

[Schultzy]

If you have six signees a year pan out of the 25 signed each year...well there's your two deep basically.

Hell, I bet the "pan out" rate of the dandy dozen over the last 30 years is 30%.

[msstate7]

If you have six signees a year pan out of the 25 signed each year...well there's your two deep basically.


You're assuming the 6 are at at different positions

[Homedawg]

If you have six signees a year pan out of the 25 signed each year...well there's your two deep basically.

Hell, I bet the "pan out" rate of the dandy dozen over the last 30 years is 30%.

Depending on your definition of panned out, id say 30% is high honestly.

[Schultzy]

Depending on your definition of panned out, id say 30% is high honestly.

You're probably right, I wish one of the guys who is good at capturing this kind of data would display it for us. I'm terrible at this sort of thing.

[Schultzy]

You're assuming the 6 are at at different positions

I am for sure, but everyone recruits to need as well, to a large extent.

[Barking 13]

But again, I don't follow JUCO, so maybe there was literally not a single SEC quality runner that they saw that they could get in the door with.

If I remember correctly, back in January, we were all salivating over the "running back U" that had Shump, Lee, Williams, Gibson, Holloway, (Dear) and so on...

I think the problem is more complicated than that...

[FISHDAWG]

In my opinion, aside from the off the field stuff Cox was constantly out of position and didn't seem to have any instincts for the safety position. His only memorable moments were the interception of Wallace in the Egg Bowl and diving pic to seal the Auburn game (which we likely would have won anyways) on a duck throw caused by Chris Jones. Otherwise, he was subpar. And yes he was on the team when we lost to Bama and let Cooper get behind him on that big play over the middle where he was tackled at the 3 shortly before the overturned fumble call. All that from a guy who was supposedly the second coming of Ed Reed when he was coming out of JUCO. Kid was just an elite athlete that wasn't that great of a football player. Part of his problem was playing out of position his Jr year, but I don't think it made that big of a difference.

that's just wrong - huge drop off when Cox got booted off the team - and I totally agree with the decision to kick him off but we def weren't the same defense with out him

[HSVDawg]

that's just wrong - huge drop off when Cox got booted off the team - and I totally agree with the decision to kick him off but we def weren't the same defense with out him

We're gonna just have to agree to disagree. He only missed 2 notable games, one in which our DC was also gone and we got run all over, and the other was the Egg Bowl where our whole team flat out didn't show up to play. What drop-off in the secondary did we have in those games? Our secondary gave up big plays all year well before he was kicked off, and they comtinued to do so afterwards.

[DancingRabbit]

We're gonna just have to agree to disagree. He only missed 2 notable games, one in which our DC was also gone and we got run all over, and the other was the Egg Bowl where our whole team flat out didn't show up to play. What drop-off in the secondary did we have in those games? Our secondary gave up big plays all year well before he was kicked off, and they comtinued to do so afterwards.

I seem to recall Evan Engram wide open down the middle.