Sunday Morning QB- Mississippi Butthurt Edition

[Coach34]

1. Glad to be right about Fla (yes, I'm well aware I have missed on some as well). I knew McElwain was a good coach and they have talent. Just shows you how shitty Boom was as a HC.

2. You dont know how bad life can be until you watch a game on your Grandmother's 1995 TV. I know what she is getting for Christmas now

3. A night of missed opportunities. You cannot go on the road against a pretty good team and fail to capitalize of their mistakes, turn the ball over, or whiff on big tackles to make plays. 1st drive for each team was a microcosm of the entire game. A&M drives down and faces a big 3rd down inside our 5- Allen is forced from the pocket- Bennie shoots the gap and chases to make the sack- he misses- Allen throws TD. State gets the ball and we make our drive. A&M busts a coverage and Myles is wide ass open. Dakota gets too excited and overthrows Myles- we end up kicking a FG. Instead of being up 7-3- we come out down 7-3. Thats the difference in big games.

4. Our playcalling was garbage. Wayyyy to inconsistent. Constant runs on 2nd and Long. Quick screens on 3rd and long. A run on 1st down before half when we should have been in 2 Minute offense. There were some good calls mixed in as well- the QB draw (which I talked about running this week to take advantage of their DE's) we ran on the 4th play of the game was great. I think we only ran it once more the rest of the game. We go way too conservative in big games- play not to lose- while other teams play to win. Where was our trick play for a big gain? Where was our long pass from inside our own 5 yardline on 1st down like A&M? Where is any imagination in our offense?

5. We lost the game the last 2 drives of the 1st half and the 1st two drives of the 2nd half. We went 3 and out on both drives before half- meanwhile A&M ran 25 plays on their drives that surrounded those two. It was 17-10 and we had 2 drives to get even before half- one even started at the 31 yard line. Throw in a short punt- A&M took advantage and scored. 24-10. Then we start the 2nd half with 2 fumbles- one on our end of the field and the other inside their 10. There is your ballgame. Missed opportunities and mistakes

6. A&M is no longer "soft". They were blowing us up and we were getting hurt. Bennie hits their QB and then has to leave the game. Morrow goes down. Myles is hurt. Where was Walley last night? Him not playing hurt us quite a bit.

7. Prescott is moving closer to setting an SEC record for passes w/o an interception- but he is far from clutch. He missed Walley running wide open thru the LSU Secondary- throwing instead to Bear that got us to the 29 on that last drive. He hits Walley instead and the FG is a non-issue. The terrible 2 pt conversion pass to Shump vs LSU. Missing a wide open Myles last night. Another bad pass to Shump on 4th down to kill another drive last night at the A&M 35 yardline. Just make the easy throw and Shump catches it and gets another 8-10 yards. But noooo- we have to fire him a piss rod out there to his inside shoulder. You are only as good as your playmakers and your QB.

8. On the positive side- Prescott did finally run last night. The difference in our offense was huge. We ran for almost 200 yards last night. Outrushed A&M and had a higher per carry average. The difference was A&M made throws when they needed to and didnt turn the ball over.

9. aGAIN I ask- why is it so hard for us to get players on the field? Why are R-Fr for us so clueless? Why does it take at least half a season for juco's to get adjusted or learn our offense even after going thru Spring Practice? Why arent we finding ways to get the ball to Wilson 10 times per game? I may be wrong- but it certainly seems like it takes us alot longer with our guys to figure out what the hell to do than other schools.

10. Our OL played hard and did well at times- but they just arent quite there- even the vets. A&M ran a twist that Warren picked up fine but Malone whiffs on their AA DE. That cant happen. Our lack of imagination in the run game does them no favors either. Go watch our run offense from 2009 and compare it to now. Like night and day.

11. Chris Jones is not playing like a 1st rounder. Where were ya last night Ry Brown? We are a physical DL- but our pass rush sux. Thanks AJ for playing with a high motor.

12. Took us too long to adjust to A&M defensively. Why did it take a whole quarter to figure out we couldnt get a pass rush without help? Overall we played ok defensively- our offense didnt help us enough and they had to play too many plays. But early on was just bad.

13. We have the rest of the month to grow up and get better. We have games that should allow young guys to grow up and the coaches to make some changes for that November run. This can still be a 10-2 team- but there has got to be some coaching done and some philosophy changes made to accomplish that. Otherwise its going to be 8-4 with the best WR's and QB in school history- and that would be a damn shame.


I'm done trusting Mullen,

C34

[civildawg]

Last sentence sums it up for me personally. It really is a shame this team is going to win 7 or 8 games

[CadaverDawg]

I agree with everything you said. Lack of creativity on offense.....Too long to adjust and get into the game on both sides of the ball....not getting our best players on the field.

Did the players screw up? Yes. But our coaches put us at a huge disadvantage by taking too long to adjust on defense, terrible offensive playcalling, and poor personnel decisions.

I also agree that we can still have a good year....but 10-2 is a big stretch. I see wins over Troy, Tech, Kentucky, and either Ark or Mizzou on the road. I think we could split Bama and OM at home, but could lose both. I hope we can get to 9-3, but 7-5 (maybe 8-4) is looking very likely in my opinion.

I just want to see us let it all hang out from a coaching perspective going forward, and put our best talent on the field, so that we aren't STILL trying to get "reps' and "experience" for these same guys next year....like Dear, Williams, Gray, Peters, etc....Quit wasting valuable time with talented players sitting on the bench. Get more than 1 good year out of our talent for goodness sakes.

[Dawgfan77]

Mullen has taken us to heights unseen but that doesn't mean he can maintain those heights. Folks dan is not repeat not above criticism. Last night was a microcosm of his tenure on big games. He is our coach but he is letting his ego get in way of winning big games. Scary but other than Ross Wilson and dak our better players are on the bench. You can bet your ass other coaches are going to use that against us in recruiting. I would rather take my lumps with the R-FR and T-FR than play some of these older players. Mullen is damn near turning into Polk

[mic]

Agree..
Except that was a 4th down when Bennie just missed that tackle instead of 3rd.. We hold them scoreless there.. Things may have been different..

CDM's fire and passion is what concerns me..
Is he and the staff grinding like he preaches to our players...
I know one coach who doesn't grind on the recruiting trail that's for sure....

[HoopsDawg]

Common denominator in our last 5 losses: Terrible starts. A&M, LSU, GT, OM and Bama all jumped on us early. Mullen's 1st quarter play calling in all of these games has been awful and Manny is going to have to start attacking from the opening whistle. AU went right down the field on us too.

Dak's pass to Shump wasn't terrible. J-Rob made some great catches out of the backfield last year. And on the Myles pass, Holloway couldn't pick up the blitz. That's why you never see a 160 pound RB in the SEC.

I thought we would give up some big plays but I thought Manny's d would force more turnovers and negative plays. Neither happened last night. 0 turnovers and biggest negative play was -3 yards.

[GTHOM]

I agree with most of what you said but on that pass to Myles Dak had to get rid of it, Mullen took to damn long to get the play in we had to rush, during the rush they walked a LB down on the edge and holloway didnt pick it up. The pass to shumpert, shump has to catch. The on vs LSU was on Dak but that one last night is totally on shump. sure it could have been on the other shoulder but for Gods sake it wasnt like it was uncatchable. he has no feet if he keeps his feet he catches it and might score.

[Coach34]

Watch it again Hoops- he threw a dart to his inside shoulder when it should have been to the outside. Running to the left and having to swing your body all the way around to catch a ball to the inside is hard as hell

[Coach34]

Also- it doesn't matter who was blocking- he had time to get the ball away- put more touch on it or throw it straight to him. Even if he has to wait on it- it's still a catch and big gain at worst. Dakota threw a shit pass there

[MabenMaroon]

Yes, all 13 points are good and are dead on. But I can sum up all the failures of the season so far pretty simply, we are failing at basic potty training 101. Both the players and the coaching staff have not yet learned that in this league you can not sh@* the bed.
Had we done the most basic fundamentals properly, both coaching and player execution, we would be 5-0 and in the CFP discussion. Hopefully, they can figure it out over the next few weeks and get it together for November and beyond, still got a shot at having a very nice season if we we do.

[mic]

A Heisman trophy candidate and 5th year SR has to make those 2 easy throws..
It wasn't like he was fitting them into a tight window..
You can't make every throw I get that.. But those 2 misses were huge ..

[UMCDawg16]

I would disagree that our pass rush sucks. We are near the top of the SEC in sack and hurries. We were even getting pressure last night with 3. Also, Dak is clutch IMO, he's shown it in several big games throughout his career, but the bottom line is- when your getting knocked on your butt all game because your O-line can't block you're going to get gun shy and miss some open guys, it happens. We have known Dak isn't the most accurate passer to begin with but he's come a LONG way in that department. And regarding the pass to Shump on 4th down- That's a ball that HAS to be caught, sure it wasn't a perfect pass but was easily catchable. Shump can't get out of his own way. He has got to have the worst feet coordination I've seen in an SEC back. He trips over himself every game. If you look at the play again, he was falling over as he attempted to catch the ball. He never can seem to make the critical catch when we need it even though he's been dubbed the "pass catching back"

I blame this game on Mullen, his playcalling in big games is horrendous.- Running a bubble screen on 3rd and 10? Running it up the middle with Holloway on 2nd and 10 late in the game? Not using your young playmakers on offense? Not getting the ball to De Runnya? He chokes in big games. Period.

[Sacrifice]

Also- it doesn't matter who was blocking- he had time to get the ball away- put more touch on it or throw it straight to him. Even if he has to wait on it- it's still a catch and big gain at worst. Dakota threw a shit pass there
Exactly, you've got to hang in a get your ass leveled to complete that pass.

[HoopsDawg]

Watch it again Hoops- he threw a dart to his inside shoulder when it should have been to the outside. Running to the left and having to swing your body all the way around to catch a ball to the inside is hard as hell

I've watched it 4 times. I agree that it wasn't a great pass, but the back has got to make that catch. It's just hard for me to blame Dak for anything b/c Mullen puts so much on him.

[shannondawg]

Who thinks we will stay ranked in top 25? Ole Miss buddy wants to bet me that we won't.

[Dawgface]

I'm done trusting Mullen,

C34

So am I. There is no reason to think he will make the necessary adjustments to get us over the hump. No......I'm not hinting he should go, there have been plenty of years I would have been thrilled just to be in a game. He has made us very competitive. But we have all seen some of the same old unexplained decisions, play calling and game management. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he probably won't.

[CadaverDawg]

I've watched it 4 times. I agree that it wasn't a great pass, but the back has got to make that catch. It's just hard for me to blame Dak for anything b/c Mullen puts so much on him.

I agree. It wasn't a good pass, but any RB with the slightest bit of flexibility makes that catch and runs for a big gain. It was on Shump, but in a way it wasn't because he isn't good enough...so it was on Dan for having him in there.

[DownwardDawg]

We have sucked for so long in football. Mullen has just gotten us out of that level. We NEED to get to the next level somehow.

Oh well, I always said I'd be happy with 8-4 every year as a State fan. Guess that's where we are.

[ShotgunDawg]

Mullen's main problem is that he's more concerned with the process than the result. He's a bean counter and not an attacker.

This isn't a bad way to run a sustainable business model that's always financially healthy, but it simply lacks the competitive fire and f@&$ it attitude that winning big requires.

Some people have it and others do not.

Why were we taking forever to snap the ball with 3 minutes left last night?

Why did Mullen feel it necessary to give the offense a "breather" while LSU's defense is on their heals in the last drive of that game?

Why weren't we in a hurry up offense late in the game against Bama last year?

I like Dan as our coach and love what he has done with our program, but there is a clear lack of competitiveness, & and commitment to the process that limits our ability to win big.

Why don't we run trick plays in games? Because Dan probably thinks there is some moral code that he would rather lose with his process than win cheaply.

Where is the killer instinct that is needed to overcome obstacles?

[RougeDawg]

Agree..
Except that was a 4th down when Bennie just missed that tackle instead of 3rd.. We hold them scoreless there.. Things may have been different..

CDM's fire and passion is what concerns me..
Is he and the staff grinding like he preaches to our players...
I know one coach who doesn't grind on the recruiting trail that's for sure....

This, his bullshit f*cking attitude in the presser after last night's game should solidify this for ever Bulldog fan out there. If you hadn't seen the game and had the TV on mute, you would have thought we won the game. No fire, no drive. Only an "Aw Shucks, maybe next time" attitude. He's been like this since #1 last season, as if to show "See I did what no one said was possible at MSU so now everything else is gravy." Not sure if there is any way to change it at this point. Strick handed over the keys to Dan a couple years ago and it appears that Dan handed strick his will and desire.

And Coach, spot on. Dan being a developmental minded coach is causing him to waste talent that is ready to play from day 1 on campus. He is wearing blinders with the developmental aspect. Peters, Dear, Lewis, et al have the ability to "develop" on the field. The 2-3* guys need development off the field. He has a difficult time deciphering between the two approaches needed. These true freshman should have been playing from the opening kick in Hattiesburg.

[I seen it dawg]

I've watched it 4 times. I agree that it wasn't a great pass, but the back has got to make that catch. It's just hard for me to blame Dak for anything b/c Mullen puts so much on him.

Seriously? He's a 5th yr sr. Puts so much on him? Hell Dan doesn't do anything. The play calling is less than vanilla. Boring shitastic please don't screw up offense.

[defiantdog]

I agree. It wasn't a good pass, but any RB with the slightest bit of flexibility makes that catch and runs for a big gain. It was on Shump, but in a way it wasn't because he isn't good enough...so it was on Dan for having him in there.
We were spoiled with JRob making one handed catches last year

[CadaverDawg]

We were spoiled with JRob making one handed catches last year

Maybe, but it didn't take one handed catches to catch the LSU 2 point conversion and last night's pass that Shump missed.....it just took a RB with some flexibility. In other words, it's not a catch a fullback makes, but your typical SEC tailback makes that catch 9 out of 10 times. Our FB playing tailback makes it...well...0 out of 2 times so far

[defiantdog]

Maybe, but it didn't take one handed catches to catch the LSU 2 point conversion and last night's pass that Shump missed.....it just took a RB with some flexibility. In other words, it's not a catch a fullback makes, but your typical SEC tailback makes that catch 9 out of 10 times. Our FB playing tailback makes it...well...0 out of 2 times so far
Exactly..... JRob, Perk, Balkard, Dixon, Norwood, etc..... All make that catch.

[Coach34]

I agree. It wasn't a good pass, but any RB with the slightest bit of flexibility makes that catch and runs for a big gain. It was on Shump, but in a way it wasn't because he isn't good enough...so it was on Dan for having him in there.

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your right shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

[Coach34]

Maybe, but it didn't take one handed catches to catch the LSU 2 point conversion and last night's pass that Shump missed.....it just took a RB with some flexibility. In other words, it's not a catch a fullback makes, but your typical SEC tailback makes that catch 9 out of 10 times. Our FB playing tailback makes it...well...0 out of 2 times so far

i say 3 out 10 at most make that catch. It's a super hard catch

[PMDawg]

1. Glad to be right about Fla (yes, I'm well aware I have missed on some as well). I knew McElwain was a good coach and they have talent. Just shows you how shitty Boom was as a HC.

2. You dont know how bad life can be until you watch a game on your Grandmother's 1995 TV. I know what she is getting for Christmas now

3. A night of missed opportunities. You cannot go on the road against a pretty good team and fail to capitalize of their mistakes, turn the ball over, or whiff on big tackles to make plays. 1st drive for each team was a microcosm of the entire game. A&M drives down and faces a big 3rd down inside our 5- Allen is forced from the pocket- Bennie shoots the gap and chases to make the sack- he misses- Allen throws TD. State gets the ball and we make our drive. A&M busts a coverage and Myles is wide ass open. Dakota gets too excited and overthrows Myles- we end up kicking a FG. Instead of being up 7-3- we come out down 7-3. Thats the difference in big games.

4. Our playcalling was garbage. Wayyyy to inconsistent. Constant runs on 2nd and Long. Quick screens on 3rd and long. A run on 1st down before half when we should have been in 2 Minute offense. There were some good calls mixed in as well- the QB draw (which I talked about running this week to take advantage of their DE's) we ran on the 4th play of the game was great. I think we only ran it once more the rest of the game. We go way too conservative in big games- play not to lose- while other teams play to win. Where was our trick play for a big gain? Where was our long pass from inside our own 5 yardline on 1st down like A&M? Where is any imagination in our offense?

5. We lost the game the last 2 drives of the 1st half and the 1st two drives of the 2nd half. We went 3 and out on both drives before half- meanwhile A&M ran 25 plays on their drives that surrounded those two. It was 17-10 and we had 2 drives to get even before half- one even started at the 31 yard line. Throw in a short punt- A&M took advantage and scored. 24-10. Then we start the 2nd half with 2 fumbles- one on our end of the field and the other inside their 10. There is your ballgame. Missed opportunities and mistakes

6. A&M is no longer "soft". They were blowing us up and we were getting hurt. Bennie hits their QB and then has to leave the game. Morrow goes down. Myles is hurt. Where was Walley last night? Him not playing hurt us quite a bit.

7. Prescott is moving closer to setting an SEC record for passes w/o an interception- but he is far from clutch. He missed Walley running wide open thru the LSU Secondary- throwing instead to Bear that got us to the 29 on that last drive. He hits Walley instead and the FG is a non-issue. The terrible 2 pt conversion pass to Shump vs LSU. Missing a wide open Myles last night. Another bad pass to Shump on 4th down to kill another drive last night at the A&M 35 yardline. Just make the easy throw and Shump catches it and gets another 8-10 yards. But noooo- we have to fire him a piss rod out there to his inside shoulder. You are only as good as your playmakers and your QB.

8. On the positive side- Prescott did finally run last night. The difference in our offense was huge. We ran for almost 200 yards last night. Outrushed A&M and had a higher per carry average. The difference was A&M made throws when they needed to and didnt turn the ball over.

9. aGAIN I ask- why is it so hard for us to get players on the field? Why are R-Fr for us so clueless? Why does it take at least half a season for juco's to get adjusted or learn our offense even after going thru Spring Practice? Why arent we finding ways to get the ball to Wilson 10 times per game? I may be wrong- but it certainly seems like it takes us alot longer with our guys to figure out what the hell to do than other schools.

10. Our OL played hard and did well at times- but they just arent quite there- even the vets. A&M ran a twist that Warren picked up fine but Malone whiffs on their AA DE. That cant happen. Our lack of imagination in the run game does them no favors either. Go watch our run offense from 2009 and compare it to now. Like night and day.

11. Chris Jones is not playing like a 1st rounder. Where were ya last night Ry Brown? We are a physical DL- but our pass rush sux. Thanks AJ for playing with a high motor.

12. Took us too long to adjust to A&M defensively. Why did it take a whole quarter to figure out we couldnt get a pass rush without help? Overall we played ok defensively- our offense didnt help us enough and they had to play too many plays. But early on was just bad.

13. We have the rest of the month to grow up and get better. We have games that should allow young guys to grow up and the coaches to make some changes for that November run. This can still be a 10-2 team- but there has got to be some coaching done and some philosophy changes made to accomplish that. Otherwise its going to be 8-4 with the best WR's and QB in school history- and that would be a damn shame.


I'm done trusting Mullen,

C34

I hope we get to 8. I think 6 or 7 is most likely now.

[Liverpooldawg]

Why we lost if you want specifics: Dak missed two throws on the fist two drives. He was under heavy pressure on one of them. One would have scored for sure. One very well may have. We wound up with a FG on one drive and nothing on the other. That's 11 points. The Williams fumble was another 7 points that should have been. That's 18 points. If you want to throw in allowing A&M to score right before the half that's another 7. That's a 25 point swing. We lost by 13.

On offense, no matter how much we mix it up, we are not going to find any consistency till we are able to block consistently. They do show a few signs of getting better but it's not happening on every play, not even close. We lost three guys that had played a LOT of games on the offensive line over the last four years. That was one of the main reasons why the talking heads were not high on us. It pains me to say it but they were right.

On defense it's the same story as last year really. We are having to compensate for deficiencies in the secondary. Last year we played it tighter than we do now and accepted that we were going to give up big plays at times. We had the offense to overcome it for the most part. It bit us in the games we lost. This year we are doing it differently by trying to keep everything in front of us. The hope is we get a take away or the offense will shoot itself in the foot. That didn't work last night consistently enough. A&M didn't do much foot shooting.

It is what it is. The question marks that were pointed out to us before the season, that we downplayed, turned out to be good questions and we haven't found satisfactory answers yet.

[CadaverDawg]

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your left shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

Yes, I did. But I wasn't SEC caliber. And I see RB's make that catch weekly. Good ones anyway

[Liverpooldawg]

i say 3 out 10 at most make that catch. It's a super hard catch

Yes, it is. That play takes a throw that was right on the money. It wasn't.

[defiantdog]

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your left shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

Yes, and I understand the difficulty of adjusting your body with pads on in that situation. But highly decorated athletes that play on major network tv stations on Saturdays and / or Sundays should be able to adjust to a poorly thrown pass. Shump can't ever slow his momentum. He's a glorified fullback playing tailback. I've seen Ross and Myles adjust their position plenty of times to poorly thrown passes. It's called situational awareness. Shump doesn't have it.

[Liverpooldawg]

Yes, I did. But I wasn't SEC caliber. And I see RB's make that catch weekly. Good ones anyway

Really?

[Liverpooldawg]

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your left shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

Exactly.

[Taog Redloh]

7. Prescott is moving closer to setting an SEC record for passes w/o an interception- but he is far from clutch. He missed Walley running wide open thru the LSU Secondary- throwing instead to Bear that got us to the 29 on that last drive. He hits Walley instead and the FG is a non-issue. The terrible 2 pt conversion pass to Shump vs LSU. Missing a wide open Myles last night. Another bad pass to Shump on 4th down to kill another drive last night at the A&M 35 yardline. Just make the easy throw and Shump catches it and gets another 8-10 yards. But noooo- we have to fire him a piss rod out there to his inside shoulder. You are only as good as your playmakers and your QB.

8. On the positive side- Prescott did finally run last night. The difference in our offense was huge. We ran for almost 200 yards last night. Outrushed A&M and had a higher per carry average. The difference was A&M made throws when they needed to and didnt turn the ball over.
I'm glad it's finally OK on this board to criticize Dak. He's a good player and the best QB we've ever had, but if he isn't running, well........you know the rest.

ETA: The senior QB curse can also be explained without the dead indians......our OL just always sucks in those years. So, not all Dak's fault.

[CadaverDawg]

Yes, and I understand the difficulty of adjusting your body with pads on in that situation. But highly decorated athletes that play on major network tv stations on Saturdays and / or Sundays should be able to adjust to a poorly thrown pass. Shump can't ever slow his momentum. He's a glorified fullback playing tailback. I've seen Ross and Myles adjust their position plenty of times to poorly thrown passes. It's called situational awareness. Shump doesn't have it.

Exactly. Sometimes players have to make plays, and that's twice that Shump got two hands on the ball and didn't make the catch. When you play RB in the SEC, if you get two hands on it, you should catch it. Nobody is debating that the throw was poor....but Dak cant stick it in Shumpert's facemask in order for him to catch it....our starting RB has to make a damn play.

It would be one thing if he caught it but fell down in the process....but no, he hasn't caught either of them, much less kept his feet. That's what fullbacks do though on tough passes. It's on Mullen for putting a 4th down conversion play in the hands of Concrete Boots in the flat, forcing him to not only make a catch, but run more than a foot for a first down....that is a design and personnel problem more than anything.

[mic]

Why we lost if you want specifics: Dak missed two throws on the fist two drives. He was under heavy pressure on one of them. One would have scored for sure. One very well may have. We wound up with a FG on one drive and nothing on the other. That's 11 points. The Williams fumble was another 7points that should have been. That's 18 points. If you want to throw in allowing A&M to score right before the half that's another 7. That's a 25 point swing. We lost by 13.


On offense, no matter how much we mix it up, we are not going to find any consistency till we are able to block consistently. They do show a few signs of getting better but it's not happening on every play, not even close. We lost three guys that had played a LOT of games on the offensive line over the last four years. That was one of the main reasons why the talking heads were not high on us. It pains me to say it but they were right.

On defense it's the same story as last year really. We are having to compensate for deficiencies in the secondary. Last year we played it tighter than we do now and accepted that we were going to give up big plays at times. We had the offense to overcome it for the most part. It bit us in the games we lost. This year we are doing it differently by trying to keep everything in front of us. The hope is we get a take away or the offense will shoot itself in the foot. That didn't work last night consistently enough. A&M didn't do much foot shooting.

It is what it is. The question marks that were pointed out to us before the season, that we downplayed, turned out to be good questions and we haven't found satisfactory answers yet.

On Aries fumble.... Why do we run that play in the red zone to the side of the field that Garrett is on?. I don't mind the option but not in the red zone when the field is shortened.. And for sure run it AWAY from the best DE in college football.. He blew the play up from the snap and still had time to make the play on Aries..

[mic]

Exactly. Sometimes players have to make plays, and that's twice that Shump got two hands on the ball and didn't make the catch. When you play RB in the SEC, if you get two hands on it, you should catch it. Nobody is debating that the throw was poor....but Dak cant stick it in Shumpert's facemask in order for him to catch it....our starting RB has to make a damn play.

It would be one thing if he caught it but fell down in the process....but no, he hasn't caught either of them, much less kept his feet. That's what fullbacks do though on tough passes. It's on Mullen for putting a 4th down conversion play in the hands of Concrete Boots in the flat, forcing him to not only make a catch, but run more than a foot for a first down....that is a design and personnel problem more than anything.

Yes Shump needs to make that catch.., but there is NO reason a QB as talented as Dak can't make that pass. And it's happened twice now..

[CadaverDawg]

On Aries fumble.... Why do we run that play in the red zone to the side of the field that Garrett is on?. I don't mind the option but not in the red zone when the field is shortened.. And for sure run it AWAY from the best DE in college football.. He blew the play up from the snap and still had time to make the play on Aries..

You're asking the wrong guy. Liverpool says being creative leads to losses....that we either overpower our opponent, or we lose. He's a doofus. And I'm not exaggerating those statements....he literally said "being creative leads to losses". That is so assinine that I will never debate him again, because he's either a troll or a dipshit.

[HoopsDawg]

Seriously? He's a 5th yr sr. Puts so much on him? Hell Dan doesn't do anything. The play calling is less than vanilla. Boring shitastic please don't screw up offense.

Just mean that he is our run game and our pass game. We can't win a big game without Dak playing great.

[CadaverDawg]

Yes Shump needs to make that catch.., but there is NO reason a QB as talented as Dak can't make that pass. And it's happened twice now..

I agree. I guess I just give Dak a pass because without him we're garbage.....but without Shumpert in our backfield, we're better.

[ScottH]

I hope we get to 8. I think 6 or 7 is most likely now.

The challenge is with the exception of Troy(I think) we can lose any game left and will be underdogs in as many as 4.

[Liverpooldawg]

Exactly. Sometimes players have to make plays, and that's twice that Shump got two hands on the ball and didn't make the catch. When you play RB in the SEC, if you get two hands on it, you should catch it. Nobody is debating that the throw was poor....but Dak cant stick it in Shumpert's facemask in order for him to catch it....our starting RB has to make a damn play.

It would be one thing if he caught it but fell down in the process....but no, he hasn't caught either of them, much less kept his feet. That's what fullbacks do though on tough passes. It's on Mullen for putting a 4th down conversion play in the hands of Concrete Boots in the flat, forcing him to not only make a catch, but run more than a foot for a first down....that is a design and personnel problem more than anything.

That was an execution problem by the QB. He made a bad throw. It happens to the best of them. My guess is if you ask Dak he will tell you that same exact thing. The play was WIDE open and he missed the throw. I get you have an agenda when it comes to Dan Mullen but come on man.

[HoopsDawg]

We are only averaging 17.8 points per game in our last 6 SEC game ex Vandy. That's horrible. Mullen needs to take a good look at himself, our scheme, and our personnel.

[CadaverDawg]

We are only averaging 17.8 points per game in our last 6 SEC game ex Vandy. That's horrible. Mullen needs to take a good look at himself, our scheme, and our personnel.

Yep. It's a major issue.

[Irondawg]

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your left shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

Agree here - that was a makeable catch but it wasn't an easy catch. Like the LSU one, even if he had caught it he's down at the 1/2 yard line. Everything to the back has to be out in front.

Dak has come a long way in the passing department but for NFL Scouts I'm sure he's pulling a Jeckyl and Hyde. He's made some good throws but already this year he's missed a ton of throws that you simply can't miss at the next level. Yes there is a ton on Dak for this offense, but let's be real and say that if he makes a couple of routine throws this year we're probably sitting at 4-1 at the worst as I think last night's game would have been a toss up in the 4th quarter and honestly I don't full trust Dan's play calling in the 4th quarter or close games.

It's frustrating to watch a guy be so great at times and then miss a couple of game changing moments that are pretty routine plays.

And yeah, coach I'd love to see that 2009 run game again. Let's put Shump at FB and Put Lee, Williams, Dear behind him with a little Holloway sprinkled in. No clue why we lost those pages of the playbook

[Liverpooldawg]

You're asking the wrong guy. Liverpool says being creative leads to losses....that we either overpower our opponent, or we lose. He's a doofus. And I'm not exaggerating those statements....he literally said "being creative leads to losses". That is so assinine that I will never debate him again, because he's either a troll or a dipshit.

You are making crap up, you do know that don't you? You are making stuff up and then arguing against it. What I said was being creative ( and in the sense you are using it; mixing up the playcalling and calling a wider variety of standard type plays with different mixes of personel) when you don't have the blocking to do it gets you beat. You have to do what you think/hope you have the blocking to do. It's pretty obvious that is what we are doing. I don't like it either but I AM capable of understanding why we are doing what we are doing. FYI: I'm fine with the personal attacks and name calling. I'm not in elementary school anymore. I have a thick skin. Fire away!

[ScottH]

And yeah, coach I'd love to see that 2009 run game again. Let's put Shump at FB and Put Lee, Williams, Dear behind him with a little Holloway sprinkled in. No clue why we lost those pages of the playbook

I agree.

Trying to think what has changed.
1. Koenig and Hudspeth are gone
2. Gonzales and Johnson have come on board
3. Mullen's hat size and check got bigger

[Coach34]

Explain it another way:

that at pass can't ever be thrown to the inside. Normally you see QB's throw it too far to the outside for an incompletion. If the RB is having to turn completely around from the direction he is running to make the catch- it's a shit pass. Dak has done in twice now in 2 huge situations. That's not being clutch- especially when Shump has been wide open both times.

[mic]

I agree.

Trying to think what has changed.
1. Koenig and Hudspeth are gone
2. Gonzales and Johnson have come on board
3. Mullen's hat size and check got bigger

#1 and #2 have nothing to do with it..
#3 Everthing to do with it.. This is CDM offense , no one to question, no one to bitch at, no one to blame when it doesn't go the way he wants it to.. All on him..

[CadaverDawg]

You are making crap up, you do know that don't you? You are making stuff up

Really?

Your post from last night....


I don't live to disagree with you, I just do. Creative usually gets you beat unless you are already better than the teams you are playing, over time. It might win you a game here and there, but it won't build a program.

And you knew exactly what i meant by "creative", because I said it in the post right before you posted this^ garbage. Game over. Get lost

[BankerDog]

We need to let Dak improvise. He has lost that by trying to stand in the pocket and make his reads.

We need to do something different with out WRs. I love Bear, Ross, and Brown. But Mullen, they're all the same type WR. They're all possession WRs. Get Gray, Dear involved there. With now Myles and Morrow down; we are going to be seeing either Deddrick Thomas or Keith Mixon. Get those guys the ball like you did Chad Bumphis' freshman year with the pass calls.

[HoopsDawg]

Explain it another way:

that at pass can't ever be thrown to the inside. Normally you see QB's throw it too far to the outside for an incompletion. If the RB is having to turn completely around from the direction he is running to make the catch- it's a shit pass. Dak has done in twice now in 2 huge situations. That's not being clutch- especially when Shump has been wide open both times.

You would think we would have repped that pass a 100 times in practice, but we are 0-2 in critical situations with it. Again, no one is arguing it was a great pass, but it was a pretty unathletic attempt a making the catch.

[Beaver]

On Aries fumble.... Why do we run that play in the red zone to the side of the field that Garrett is on?. I don't mind the option but not in the red zone when the field is shortened.. And for sure run it AWAY from the best DE in college football.. He blew the play up from the snap and still had time to make the play on Aries..

If Aries switches hands, he likely doesn't fumble. Call it bad coaching or poor decision making, but that was a rookie mistake.

[msstate7]

We need to let Dak improvise. He has lost that by trying to stand in the pocket and make his reads.

We need to do something different with out WRs. I love Bear, Ross, and Brown. But Mullen, they're all the same type WR. They're all possession WRs. Get Gray, Dear involved there. With now Myles and Morrow down; we are going to be seeing either Deddrick Thomas or Keith Mixon. Get those guys the ball like you did Chad Bumphis' freshman year with the pass calls.

You think we burn the RS on Thomas or mixon?

[RougeDawg]

You are making crap up, you do know that don't you? You are making stuff up and then arguing against it. What I said was being creative ( and in the sense you are using it; mixing up the playcalling and calling a wider variety of standard type plays with different mixes of personel) when you don't have the blocking to do it gets you beat. You have to do what you think/hope you have the blocking to do. It's pretty obvious that is what we are doing. I don't like it either but I AM capable of understanding why we are doing what we are doing. FYI: I'm fine with the personal attacks and name calling. I'm not in elementary school anymore. I have a thick skin. Fire away!

Not sure if your mixing up your bottles of Zanex and Tic Tacs prevented you from watching the game clearly, but our OLine gave Dak enough time to do what was needed to win. We were simply just predictable on offense (and every other meaningful game post Auburn 14) and didn't make the plays needed. We were bland in the playcalling. Dan got in a pattern of playcalling based on down and distance. This makes it extremely easy for a D Coordinator to dial up defenses. Dak didn't make the plays when needed. And once again, if you admit you got your meds mixed up last night, then it will fully explain your posts last night and today. No way you watched that game unimpaired and came away with your conclusion.

If we don't have the blocking that you keep harping on, how were we successful with 4 and 5 wide sets last evening? If we can't block, those should never work according to you. Could it be that we called the same type of play on 2nd and 10 yards, 3rd and long just about every drive all night? Could that be the reason the DLine was teeing off? Can you even start to fathom the thought that our limited offensive playcalling can influence the defenses method of attack?

I've just provided prime examples that completely refute your claims that our OL is the problem. So which is it? It's time for you to answer, is it our blocking preventing success or our playcalling, lack thereof, the reason that defenses are teeing off on us?

[msstate7]

If Aries switches hands, he likely doesn't fumble. Call it bad coaching or poor decision making, but that was a rookie mistake.

Yep. I hope he gets 10 or more carries this week anyway

[CadaverDawg]

If Aries switches hands, he likely doesn't fumble. Call it bad coaching or poor decision making, but that was a rookie mistake.

Yea, and I've noticed Shumpert and Dak doing it too. Are we even coaching how to carry the ball anymore? Dak is a 5th year Senior, and Shump is a Junior, so it apparently isn't just a Freshman thing.

[CadaverDawg]

Yep. I hope he gets 10 or more carries this week anyway

I agree. I'm going to be pissed if his fumble put him in Mullen's doghouse. We need him out there, he looked good to me, outside of the one miscue.

[tcdog70]

On Aries fumble.... Why do we run that play in the red zone to the side of the field that Garrett is on?. I don't mind the option but not in the red zone when the field is shortened.. And for sure run it AWAY from the best DE in college football.. He blew the play up from the snap and still had time to make the play on Aries..

Exactly, who wouldn't have rather thrown it to Bear? When we hit the red zone roll Dak out and throw it to Bear or run it.

[I seen it dawg]

Just mean that he is our run game and our pass game. We can't win a big game without Dak playing great.

I agree there and he's been way less than great. Why I don't know.

[Dallas_Dawg]

I agree there and he's been way less than great. Why I don't know.

We don't have any RBs that can get it done. That is why. I never thought I would see the day when we didn't have a good enough RB to start in the Sec. Hell, Brandon Thornton would be our best back if he was here.
j-Rob should have come back. We just have BEGGED him to. When he went, some on here said that Mullen encouraged him to go.
Another thing is the O-Line. Our recruiting has to improve here. Cadaver and C34 and others have argued about our OL and its recruiting on here and this year, our poor recruiting shows. Maybe it's time we start looking at other parts of the country for OL talent to supplement the talent that is in the state. It takes a smart, mean, big, athletic son of a bitch to be a top quality OL and it just doesn't seem that our state can provide enough of those to go around for us and OM. OM gets most of the top Recruited OL's in our state, J Patterson, Rod Davis, etc

[Liverpooldawg]

Really?

Your post from last night....



And you knew exactly what i meant by "creative", because I said it in the post right before you posted this^ garbage. Game over. Get lost

Yep. Creativity will get you beat if you aren't good enough to do it. Your take is that creativity is the solution to our problem. My take is getting creative at this point is a recipe for an even bigger disaster.

[Sacrifice]

Well damn, let me pump some sunshine today. My boy Westin Graves shows up again. 6-6 on the season. We can't run the ball for shit but we can kick FGs!

[Liverpooldawg]

If you can't block what you have prepared for and worked on heavily what makes you think if you branch out into a wider variety of stuff you will be able to block that? You have to get your base stuff down before you can open up the playbook. We haven't shown we are ready to do that yet. It will come.

[defiantdog]

Well damn, let me pump some sunshine today. My boy Westin Graves shows up again. 6-6 on the season. We can't run the ball for shit but we can kick FGs!

Thanks for the sunshine, but this basically tells us we always get pieces to the puzzle and never the entire puzzle. It's nice to have a bomb ass kicker, but we are garbage when it comes to running the ball.

[defiantdog]

If you can't block what you have prepared for and worked on heavily what makes you think if you branch out into a wider variety of stuff you will be able to block that? You have to get your base stuff down before you can open up the playbook. We haven't shown we are ready to do that yet. It will come.

What? So, you're saying we can't run a trick play because our LT can't block?

[mic]

Exactly, who wouldn't have rather thrown it to Bear? When we hit the red zone roll Dak out and throw it to Bear or run it.

I agree.... If we get inside the red zone and don't score a TD , there had better been at least one attempt to get the ball to Bear with a fade or jump ball ...

[CadaverDawg]

What? So, you're saying we can't run a trick play because our LT can't block?

Makes perfect sense! **

[BHildreth3]

Asking the group this...I get pissed about us not being able to run the ball, and then I watch other teams around the country play FR runningbacks and they get 120 plus yards. It's frustrating and I ask myself the same question - Why do we make it so complicated? Is it just simply this? - Our offensive line is avg going up against better SEC defensive line/LB talent?

If we were in another conference would we be opening up massive holes and having Williams and Lee rushing for 100s of yards?

[defiantdog]

Asking the group this...I get pissed about us not being able to run the ball, and then I watch other teams around the country play FR runningbacks and they get 120 plus yards. It's frustrating and I ask myself the same question - Why do we make it so complicated? Is it just simply this? - Our offensive line is avg going up against better SEC defensive line/LB talent?

If we were in another conference would we be opening up massive holes and having Williams and Lee rushing for 100s of yards?

We didn't have anyone rush for 100 yards against Northwestern St. We had 3 guys go for 50 yards though. We don't have a running back that is capable of carrying the team on his back. I doubt we'll have anyone, other than Dak, rush for 100 yards this season. I'd like to see our RB's stat for yards after contact. I bet it's extremely low.

[SallyStansbury]

10. Our OL played hard and did well at times- but they just arent quite there- even the vets. A&M ran a twist that Warren picked up fine but Malone whiffs on their AA DE. That cant happen. Our lack of imagination in the run game does them no favors either. Go watch our run offense from 2009 and compare it to now. Like night and day.

11. Chris Jones is not playing like a 1st rounder. Where were ya last night Ry Brown? We are a physical DL- but our pass rush sux. Thanks AJ for playing with a high motor.


Glad you picked up on my '09 comment from the other day, answer me this.....is our success in 09 a product of less group think, for instance sprinkle in some Hudspeth for balance as opposed to HEV + MULLEN: "we are going to blow them off the line!!!"? or is it more a result of Jackson 61, Saulsberry 55, and Sherrod 79 + Hanrahan 35? We were a hell of a lot more productive in 2009 running the ball than we are this year. Was that because of talent, scheme, or because of less predictability? I bet Mullen wished he had an offensive coordinator (Other than himself and/or Hev) to blame for that turd last night. I see Mullen so hard-headedly focused on a process...some kind of mental flow chart to avoid making "errors" or doing something wrong that we are missing the bigger picture that we start all games in a deep hole because opposing coaches take advantage of our predictability, duh? Getting our asses kicked because we do the same predictable shit over and over stubbornly, is worse than letting Chris Jones rush up field to kill the QB instead of telling him to eat space *and the runner happens to hit the hole he left for a 10 yrd gain*, it is worse than *Dak taking a sack* because he was trying to hit Gray deep over the middle. If you were Chris Jones and they showed you a tape of Cherrington 74 from 2010-2011 and said, "Do that!" Would you be excited? Where are the stunts, twists, slants? Where is the aggression....and I don't mean every play like dumbass Joe Lee Dunn, so spare me that strawman bullshit? Think of that run by Dear, there was some DE stunt and their DE went inside and Dear ran 50 yrds right over where that dude was, perfect play....nice call Mullen. But overall their D killed us with shit like that all night.....we had lots of difficulty stopping them, LSU did a lot of the same stuff. Why don't we EVER do that? We are too busying bend/breaking. That has become very predictable and people are taking advantage of it. Much the same way our offense has become very predictable and folks are taking advantage of it.

[1bigdawg]

If Aries switches hands, he likely doesn't fumble. Call it bad coaching or poor decision making, but that was a rookie mistake.

Both fumbles were from a lack of proper technique. Aries carries in the wrong hand, just like a critical Shumpert fumble two years ago and De'Runnya was carrying the ball like a loaf of bread.

Then we have a problem recovering fumbles. Our opponents are dropping it on the ground, but we are not getting to it. Some of it is coincidence, but at some point it has to be lack of "strain."

[basedog]

Just maybe we lost not because of Mullen but players not making plays and the big fact of the matter, Texas A&M was just more talented and a better overall team!

To read the post about Mullen has gotten as bad as Gene's page with the sunshine! We are coming off of last year with 5 weeks being #1 and I sure didn't read "Mullen doesn't have a clue"

You so call experts are just mad cause he doesn't coach like you think he should! Please!

Riddle me this Batman, how many winning Coaches has Msu had? Do you think there is a reason for so many losing coaches?

I will say as on the average of college coaches staying at one place has Mullen on the tale end of his tour at Msu. And when he goes you better hope like hell we can find a better one or at least an equal. After all he is one of a very few who have ever won at Msu. Be careful with all the bashing boys cause it may or could be a whole lot worse.

[Todd4State]

Glad you picked up on my '09 comment from the other day, answer me this.....is our success in 09 a product of less group think, for instance sprinkle in some Hudspeth for balance as opposed to HEV + MULLEN: "we are going to blow them off the line!!!"? or is it more a result of Jackson 61, Saulsberry 55, and Sherrod 79 + Hanrahan 35? We were a hell of a lot more productive in 2009 running the ball than we are this year. Was that because of talent, scheme, or because of less predictability? I bet Mullen wished he had an offensive coordinator (Other than himself and/or Hev) to blame for that turd last night. I see Mullen so hard-headedly focused on a process...some kind of mental flow chart to avoid making "errors" or doing something wrong that we are missing the bigger picture that we start all games in a deep hole because opposing coaches take advantage of our predictability, duh? Getting our asses kicked because we do the same predictable shit over and over stubbornly, is worse than letting Chris Jones rush up field to kill the QB instead of telling him to eat space *and the runner happens to hit the hole he left for a 10 yrd gain*, it is worse than *Dak taking a sack* because he was trying to hit Gray deep over the middle. If you were Chris Jones and they showed you a tape of Cherrington 74 from 2010-2011 and said, "Do that!" Would you be excited? Where are the stunts, twists, slants? Where is the aggression....and I don't mean every play like dumbass Joe Lee Dunn, so spare me that strawman bullshit? Think of that run by Dear, there was some DE stunt and their DE went inside and Dear ran 50 yrds right over where that dude was, perfect play....nice call Mullen. But overall their D killed us with shit like that all night.....we had lots of difficulty stopping them, LSU did a lot of the same stuff. Why don't we EVER do that? We are too busying bend/breaking. That has become very predictable and people are taking advantage of it. Much the same way our offense has become very predictable and folks are taking advantage of it.

I think Texas A&M has the best d-line in the SEC and that was a lot of the o-line's problem. We'll probably benefit a lot from that experience.

I do agree with your post and everyone else about Dan and his lack of creativity.

[Todd4State]

Just maybe we lost not because of Mullen but players not making plays and the big fact of the matter, Texas A&M was just more talented and a better overall team!

To read the post about Mullen has gotten as bad as Gene's page with the sunshine! We are coming off of last year with 5 weeks being #1 and I sure didn't read "Mullen doesn't have a clue"

You so call experts are just mad cause he doesn't coach like you think he should! Please!

Riddle me this Batman, how many winning Coaches has Msu had? Do you think there is a reason for so many losing coaches?

I will say as on the average of college coaches staying at one place has Mullen on the tale end of his tour at Msu. And when he goes you better hope like hell we can find a better one or at least an equal. After all he is one of a very few who have ever won at Msu. Be careful with all the bashing boys cause it may or could be a whole lot worse.

I remember people being frustrated with 1A/1B and questioning his decision to pull our starters our against LSU early in the fourth last year when we were number one. And let's be honest- we're damn lucky we didn't blow LSU last year.

Yeah- we certainly could be a lot worse than Dan. There is also a chance we could do better than Dan too.

And there was a reason for so many losing coaches- it was poor athletic dept. management and not putting the emphasis we needed into football WAY back in the 50's along with a pretty toxic environment where the engineering people and the ag people at MSU couldn't agree on a coach and never could pull on the rope together in the same direction. And the poor athletic dept. management and not putting emphasis on football extended all the way into the 2000's. We fixed the AD and have put more into football and lo and behold we're a top 40 program every single year now. And yes, Dan is certainly part of that but that doesn't mean he is infallible.

[Todd4State]

I think Dan is an idealist. He wants things to be a certain way and then when the reality is different- like a freshman being better than a fourth year junior- it messes him up. And that results in him finding ways to justify his original thought process- "he needs to work on blocking", "he doesn't know the playbook as well", etc.

[Todd4State]

We don't have any RBs that can get it done. That is why. I never thought I would see the day when we didn't have a good enough RB to start in the Sec. Hell, Brandon Thornton would be our best back if he was here.
j-Rob should have come back. We just have BEGGED him to. When he went, some on here said that Mullen encouraged him to go.
Another thing is the O-Line. Our recruiting has to improve here. Cadaver and C34 and others have argued about our OL and its recruiting on here and this year, our poor recruiting shows. Maybe it's time we start looking at other parts of the country for OL talent to supplement the talent that is in the state. It takes a smart, mean, big, athletic son of a bitch to be a top quality OL and it just doesn't seem that our state can provide enough of those to go around for us and OM. OM gets most of the top Recruited OL's in our state, J Patterson, Rod Davis, etc

Dan does not like players with swag. That's why I think Fitz is going to be our QB next year over Staley. And it's also why our team looks soft and doesn't play with energy. We need someone to hype them up some. Dan needs to understand that swag doesn't necessarily mean you don't work hard- see Deion Sanders, Richard Sherman, and Michael Irvin among many others.

[AROB44]

You so call experts are just mad cause he doesn't coach like you think he should! Please!

Couldn't have said it better, basedog.

[DanDority]

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your right shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

Ha,Ha,Ha,
I'm going to say that a good 75% did not!

[TaleofTwoDogs]

did ya'll play sports? Hell- go out in the yard and walk to the left and let someone throw you a ball hard as hell at your right shoulder. It was a terrible pass. Shump made it close because he was able to swing his body around to almost catch it. That ball has got to be thrown to his outside hand

I agree with coach on this one. My jaw dropped when I saw that dart flying by Shump. Dak should have floated it over Shump's shoulder not throw a bullet. Of course, Shump knowing that Dak might throw a dart if he's being hurried should have run a wheel route instead of the slant for the better angle.

[basedog]

I remember people being frustrated with 1A/1B and questioning his decision to pull our starters our against LSU early in the fourth last year when we were number one. And let's be honest- we're damn lucky we didn't blow LSU last year.

Yeah- we certainly could be a lot worse than Dan. There is also a chance we could do better than Dan too.

And there was a reason for so many losing coaches- it was poor athletic dept. management and not putting the emphasis we needed into football WAY back in the 50's along with a pretty toxic environment where the engineering people and the ag people at MSU couldn't agree on a coach and never could pull on the rope together in the same direction. And the poor athletic dept. management and not putting emphasis on football extended all the way into the 2000's. We fixed the AD and have put more into football and lo and behold we're a top 40 program every single year now. And yes, Dan is certainly part of that but that doesn't mean he is infallible.


You may be the most changed poster on ED. You can do better, stick more to baseball, jmo. Be happy as we can always go back to being what we have been, last in football with no hope, I remember those days way to much.

[Schultzy]

Absent a crappy call on the receiver going out of bounds giving them a first down on third and long eventually a TD plus missing Gabe Myles for an easy TD plus fumbling twice inside the 10 we would've won.

[Liverpooldawg]

Just maybe we lost not because of Mullen but players not making plays and the big fact of the matter, Texas A&M was just more talented and a better overall team!

To read the post about Mullen has gotten as bad as Gene's page with the sunshine! We are coming off of last year with 5 weeks being #1 and I sure didn't read "Mullen doesn't have a clue"

You so call experts are just mad cause he doesn't coach like you think he should! Please!

Riddle me this Batman, how many winning Coaches has Msu had? Do you think there is a reason for so many losing coaches?

I will say as on the average of college coaches staying at one place has Mullen on the tale end of his tour at Msu. And when he goes you better hope like hell we can find a better one or at least an equal. After all he is one of a very few who have ever won at Msu. Be careful with all the bashing boys cause it may or could be a whole lot worse.

Very good.

[chef dixon]

Mullen is an excellent coach. His system and how well he runs it is the EXACT reason why a school like MSU has improved enough to be able to compete with the big boys that are drawing in the absolute best players in the nation. He has raised not only the ceiling for the program, but has significantly raised the floor as well. As long as he is our coach we will field a competitive team, which is a hell of a feat when you consider who we play year after year. This is often overlooked especially during times like this when we lose. You may not like some of the decisions he makes but dear god I fear the day he is no longer our coach and someone new blows it up and starts building it a different way. Could the new coach do the same or better? Maybe, but I don't like the odds.

[basedog]

Mullen is an excellent coach. His system and how well he runs it is the EXACT reason why a school like MSU has improved enough to be able to compete with the big boys that are drawing in the absolute best players in the nation. He has raised not only the ceiling for the program, but has significantly raised the floor as well. As long as he is our coach we will field a competitive team, which is a hell of a feat when you consider who we play year after year. This Nama is often overlooked especially during times like this when we lose. You may not like some of the decisions he makes but dear god I fear the day he is no longer our coach and someone new blows it up and starts building it a different way. Could the new coach do the same or better? Maybe, but I don't like the odds.

Well said. Like I said, players have to make plays, they didn't do that yesterday. There was nothing Mullen did yesterday that cost us the game.

[Todd4State]

Well said. Like I said, players have to make plays, they didn't do that yesterday. There was nothing Mullen did yesterday that cost us the game.

You have to be kidding me. So, that whole mismanagement at the end of the half was not Dan's fault?

[Todd4State]

You may be the most changed poster on ED. You can do better, stick more to baseball, jmo. Be happy as we can always go back to being what we have been, last in football with no hope, I remember those days way to much.

I'm happy. I don't know about doing better- it looks like I've been pretty spot on about Dan going back to before the season started. And this despite me not being at practice- which actually sad since Dan actually is and still can't put the right people on the field.

[War Machine Dawg]

The old farts around here need to get over their MSU PTSD. I understand why they have it, but it's a different era. The amount of money in the SEC has totally changed the landscape. The days of us being 3-9 annually are gone forever. The gap between SEC bottom feeder, sans Vandy, and the non-P5 is huge. That's not to say a team like Eastern KY can't play with an SEC bottom feeder and give them a scare, but it takes them catching you on a night where you're flat and just going through the motions. Actually losing to a school like that is basically a fluke now, unless you're a raging dumpster fire.

And because of the money, and as Todd pointed out an athletic department and alumni group that's actually competent and pulling the rope together, we can attract quality coaches that would've never even considered us before. Look no further than Ben Howland. We've got resources we've never had before and a major shoe company in Adidas on our side. And as much as I may bitch about the garbage they give us to wear, they've done a hell of a lot of good in improving our brand and talking us up across the nation. All that to say, while I don't want Mullen to leave, I guarantee we can attract another quality coach if he does. And we don't have to go all poor ol' Mittippi Tate and immediately hire someone like Hud. We can attract major candidates.

[Bama_Dawg]

My problem is we need to teach MORE fundamentals. I'm sure in most areas we are, but we have 2 very big things that cost us this game (and others).

1. Carry the ball in your arm nearest the sidelines. Aries' fumble on the 9 yard line, while we are driving cost us gaining more momentum.
2. Catch the ball WITH YOUR HANDS, not your body, BEAR, I'm looking at you. This is the one thing that his game is lacking. Again, catch the ball with your hands, and he secures the ball and doesn't get it knocked out.

And yes, this all goes back to coaching. I think we have the coaching pieces in place, but they need to step up and earn their money.

[basedog]

You guys make it sound like it's so easy. Yep money helps but it helps the power teams just as much as us. We give 4 million to a coach, they can give 8 million. Hiring coaches for the right fit is the key.

"The old farts around here need to get over their MSU PTSD", This makes me laugh, I suppose times have changed as history does come around, and when it does your kids will probably be saying the same thing about you and others.

From this old fart to giving you young smart football armchair expert wanna be's a tip on life, "Never touch a dog on fire, it can hurt you".

[CadaverDawg]

There was nothing Mullen did yesterday that cost us the game.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/462433753642434561/iiDj6qlK_400x400.jpeg

[AROB44]

Good post, base dog. What these young ones don't realize is if it wasn't for us old farts that supported the program throughout the wandering in the wilderness, they would not have what they have today. Of course they would never admit it or would say "thanks.....now why don't you die off so I can get your seats".

[Coach34]

Well said. Like I said, players have to make plays, they didn't do that yesterday. There was nothing Mullen did yesterday that cost us the game.

We'll just have to disagree there. Players certainly have to do their part- but calling certain plays at certain times has a huge effect on the ballgame. Lack of imagination has a huge effect on the game.

[SheltonChoked]

My coach would have told me it hit me in the hands. If you can get both hands on it, you have a to catch it. No excuses. If you cannot catch on offense, you get to play defense.

But I only was a slow, small, white backup at a 4a MS high school. Not an sec starter. Must have different expectations for them.

[SheltonChoked]

I'm not saying it was a good throw, but I was taught that if you can touch it with both hands, you should catch it. Every time.

But to me Dak made critical mistakes in this game and all of them since Kentucky. I think he is making poor reads on the read option. He is missing throws.

I think the game is completely different if he puts some air under the grow to gabe and Shump. I think he missed several reads on handoffs that make our running game look bad.

We have to have our coaches getting the players to keep the ball high and tight. I don't care which hand it's in but held against the chest, hand on the point, forearm and bicep on the ball.

[BrunswickDawg]

The old farts around here need to get over their MSU PTSD. I understand why they have it, but it's a different era. The amount of money in the SEC has totally changed the landscape. The days of us being 3-9 annually are gone forever. The gap between SEC bottom feeder, sans Vandy, and the non-P5 is huge. That's not to say a team like Eastern KY can't play with an SEC bottom feeder and give them a scare, but it takes them catching you on a night where you're flat and just going through the motions. Actually losing to a school like that is basically a fluke now, unless you're a raging dumpster fire.

And because of the money, and as Todd pointed out an athletic department and alumni group that's actually competent and pulling the rope together, we can attract quality coaches that would've never even considered us before. Look no further than Ben Howland. We've got resources we've never had before and a major shoe company in Adidas on our side. And as much as I may bitch about the garbage they give us to wear, they've done a hell of a lot of good in improving our brand and talking us up across the nation. All that to say, while I don't want Mullen to leave, I guarantee we can attract another quality coach if he does. And we don't have to go all poor ol' Mittippi Tate and immediately hire someone like Hud. We can attract major candidates.

While I admit to having some MSU PTSD, I think that too many people confuse acceptance of reality with complacency. Do I like 7-5 or 8-4? Not one damn bit, I ****ing hate losing and always have. Do I accept the reality that no matter what improvements we make from a coaching, facilities, & talent standpoint that more often than not we are going to be about 8-4? Damn straight. We play in the toughest division in the toughest conference in America. Go back and read many of your posts prior to last year. A lot of you pissing on Mullen were all about "we should be 8-4 on average with a couple of 10-2 seasons sprinkled in." But the 10-2 has turned you into a bunch of damn Gumps wanting to fire Saban because you don't want to admit that the media was right about our drop off this year. Grow up and appreciate that 1) this is a tough game; 2) that we finally have a competitive, but not perfect program; 3)we will never again have a program where it was 7 years ago.

[CadaverDawg]

Good post, base dog. What these young ones don't realize is if it wasn't for us old farts that supported the program throughout the wandering in the wilderness, they would not have what they have today. Of course they would never admit it or would say "thanks.....now why don't you die off so I can get your seats".

Oh I thank you guys, very much. However, just because our history in football sucks, doesn't mean we can never criticize a coach that's winning or question why we're underperforming compared to our talent level.

You and basedog are arguing a totally different point in this thread. Nobody wants Mullen fired, but we're also not sitting around high fiving all year because we're better than the 3-8 days of old. You guys are the definition of poor ole MSU in this thread, Bc every moment you sit around content with 7-5, a Kentucky or someone like that passes you by. We have all of the advantages financially these days, to where we don't have to just be thankful we aren't an embarrassment anymore. So "Thank you" for helping get us to this point....now if you want to pass the torch and let us try to take it even a step further, we're up to the challenge.

Trust me, we're all thankful. Doesn't mean the job is done. It's an arms race now, or you run the risk of falling back to where you guys helped pull us out of. Does that make sense?

But seriously, "Thank you".

[CadaverDawg]

We'll just have to disagree there. Players certainly have to do their part- but calling certain plays at certain times has a huge effect on the ballgame. Lack of imagination has a huge effect on the game.

This

[CadaverDawg]

My coach would have told me it hit me in the hands. If you can get both hands on it, you have a to catch it. No excuses. If you cannot catch on offense, you get to play defense.

But I only was a slow, small, white backup at a 4a MS high school. Not an sec starter. Must have different expectations for them.

I'm with you brother. Good post

[basedog]

Good post, base dog. What these young ones don't realize is if it wasn't for us old farts that supported the program throughout the wandering in the wilderness, they would not have what they have today. Of course they would never admit it or would say "thanks.....now why don't you die off so I can get your seats".

You know, ED has been the best message board to read, but now, Mullen has brought expectations up to a level we have never experienced and folks like "The Dude who wishes he was a bad ass like Clint Eastwood" are making it hard to read!
Although I will give him a plus 1 for the post he made about him calling me out as a Gene wanna be. H
Hey CadaverDawg, stick to the comic relief post, you at least make me laugh!

[CadaverDawg]

While I admit to having some MSU PTSD, I think that too many people confuse acceptance of reality with complacency. Do I like 7-5 or 8-4? Not one damn bit, I ****ing hate losing and always have. Do I accept the reality that no matter what improvements we make from a coaching, facilities, & talent standpoint that more often than not we are going to be about 8-4? Damn straight. We play in the toughest division in the toughest conference in America. Go back and read many of your posts prior to last year. A lot of you pissing on Mullen were all about "we should be 8-4 on average with a couple of 10-2 seasons sprinkled in." But the 10-2 has turned you into a bunch of damn Gumps wanting to fire Saban because you don't want to admit that the media was right about our drop off this year. Grow up and appreciate that 1) this is a tough game; 2) that we finally have a competitive, but not perfect program; 3)we will never again have a program where it was 7 years ago.

Who wants to fire Mullen? You guys get a little obvious criticism confused with people being spoiled and wanting to fire a coach. Criticisms after a loss are common. Doesn't mean people don't appreciate where we are. Growing a program to a new level doesn't make one free of criticism, especially when theyake 4 million per year. There's always things to improve on, and pointing them out on a messageboard doesn't make someone a spoiled gump...it makes them a fan. If we had all day around singing kumbaya for 5 years after Sly took us bowling, we wouldn't be where we are. So while some call it spoiled, others call it accountability and making sure we're maximizing potential.

[Irondawg]

I think he missed several reads on handoffs that make our running game look bad.



I've noticed this too - nobody is going to make the right read all time and sometimes there is no right read as the defense plays it well. But it seems like he's getting it right only about 50% to my untrained eye when i watch the DE and the play. I can recall twice last night where the DE crashed really hard and he kept it when it looked like letting the RB get outside would have produced nice gains.

[CadaverDawg]

You know, ED has been the best message board to read, but now, Mullen has brought expectations up to a level we have never experienced and folks like "The Dude who wishes he was a bad ass like Clint Eastwood" are making it hard to read!
Although I will give him a plus 1 for the post he made about him calling me out as a Gene wanna be. H
Hey CadaverDawg, stick to the comic relief post, you at least make me laugh!

So my avatar means "I wanna be Eastwood"? So does a Dak avatar mean I wanna be Dak? Great burn, bud.

And as for your other comments, if we all had your mentality, we'd still have Sly Croom and be fired up when we beat USM Bc that's all we had to play for. It's a new day in age, and we knocked on the door of the playoff last year....don't want to raise expectations and keep climbing? Fine...but don't expect everyone to follow you and watch our program sink back down while we're all patting the old farts on the back.

If you had your mentality when you and AROB were supposedly "building the program", it would have never been built. Right? So why are you mad at the ones trying to sustain it or make it even better? Get out of the way if you're done building. Thank for what you've gotten us to.

[basedog]

Oh I thank you guys, very much. However, just because our history in football sucks, doesn't mean we can never criticize a coach that's winning or question why we're underperforming compared to our talent level.

You and basedog are arguing a totally different point in this thread. Nobody wants Mullen fired, but we're also not sitting around high fiving all year because we're better than the 3-8 days of old. You guys are the definition of poor ole MSU in this thread, Bc every moment you sit around content with 7-5, a Kentucky or someone like that passes you by. We have all of the advantages financially these days, to where we don't have to just be thankful we aren't an embarrassment anymore. So "Thank you" for helping get us to this point....now if you want to pass the torch and let us try to take it even a step further, we're up to the challenge.

Trust me, we're all thankful. Doesn't mean the job is done. It's an arms race now, or you run the risk of falling back to where you guys helped pull us out of. Does that make sense?

But seriously, "Thank you".

I could live with what you say, but you are like a nagging woman that just keeps on nagging. Find another topic to bitch about, why with the same ole same negative crap, no way you are happy with Mullen, it's pretty obvious!

Congrats on the 17,102 post, pretty amazing. Does C34 pay you for the post?

[Liverpooldawg]

Mullen is an excellent coach. His system and how well he runs it is the EXACT reason why a school like MSU has improved enough to be able to compete with the big boys that are drawing in the absolute best players in the nation. He has raised not only the ceiling for the program, but has significantly raised the floor as well. As long as he is our coach we will field a competitive team, which is a hell of a feat when you consider who we play year after year. This is often overlooked especially during times like this when we lose. You may not like some of the decisions he makes but dear god I fear the day he is no longer our coach and someone new blows it up and starts building it a different way. Could the new coach do the same or better? Maybe, but I don't like the odds.
Excellent post. I agree with all of it.

[Liverpooldawg]

While I admit to having some MSU PTSD, I think that too many people confuse acceptance of reality with complacency. Do I like 7-5 or 8-4? Not one damn bit, I ****ing hate losing and always have. Do I accept the reality that no matter what improvements we make from a coaching, facilities, & talent standpoint that more often than not we are going to be about 8-4? Damn straight. We play in the toughest division in the toughest conference in America. Go back and read many of your posts prior to last year. A lot of you pissing on Mullen were all about "we should be 8-4 on average with a couple of 10-2 seasons sprinkled in." But the 10-2 has turned you into a bunch of damn Gumps wanting to fire Saban because you don't want to admit that the media was right about our drop off this year. Grow up and appreciate that 1) this is a tough game; 2) that we finally have a competitive, but not perfect program; 3)we will never again have a program where it was 7 years ago.

Outstanding!

[basedog]

So my avatar means "I wanna be Eastwood"? So does a Dak avatar mean I wanna be Dak? Great burn, bud.

And as for your other comments, if we all had your mentality, we'd still have Sly Croom and be fired up when we beat USM Bc that's all we had to play for. It's a new day in age, and we knocked on the door of the playoff last year....don't want to raise expectations and keep climbing? Fine...but don't expect everyone to follow you and watch our program sink back down while we're all patting the old farts on the back.

If you had your mentality when you and AROB were supposedly "building the program", it would have never been built. Right? So why are you mad at the ones trying to sustain it or make it even better? Get out of the way if you're done building. Thank for what you've gotten us to.

You have a serious probably, I am no where near what you think I am. For your information, I was never a Croom fan, I also caught hell for saying it was time for JWS to go from some of my best friends. I also was telling another good friend shannondawg who loves Stansbury he needed to go. So labeling me on things you have no clue about is what is wrong with you. You talk way to much.

It's folks like you that are tearing the program, we aren't losing and we are competing a high level but yet you dream in wonderland! Please.

[CadaverDawg]

I could live with what you say, but you are like a nagging woman that just keeps on nagging. Find another topic to bitch about, why with the same ole same negative crap, no way you are happy with Mullen, it's pretty obvious!

Congrats on the 17,102 post, pretty amazing. Does C34 pay you for the post?

What is your problem? I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from, and all you're doing is making childish remarks about avatars and post count.
If you don't like me, don't read my posts. I am actually very positive about a lot of what Mullen does, but that doesn't make him free of criticism. Are you his wife? Don't like what I say? Pass over it or leave. Nobody's holding a gun to your head. Sounds like you'd like it better on the other board anyway. God forbid you ever go to SPS if you think I'm negative.

Don't expect to come here after a loss and find rainbows and butterflies.

[Liverpooldawg]

The old farts around here need to get over their MSU PTSD. I understand why they have it, but it's a different era. The amount of money in the SEC has totally changed the landscape. The days of us being 3-9 annually are gone forever. The gap between SEC bottom feeder, sans Vandy, and the non-P5 is huge. That's not to say a team like Eastern KY can't play with an SEC bottom feeder and give them a scare, but it takes them catching you on a night where you're flat and just going through the motions. Actually losing to a school like that is basically a fluke now, unless you're a raging dumpster fire.

And because of the money, and as Todd pointed out an athletic department and alumni group that's actually competent and pulling the rope together, we can attract quality coaches that would've never even considered us before. Look no further than Ben Howland. We've got resources we've never had before and a major shoe company in Adidas on our side. And as much as I may bitch about the garbage they give us to wear, they've done a hell of a lot of good in improving our brand and talking us up across the nation. All that to say, while I don't want Mullen to leave, I guarantee we can attract another quality coach if he does. And we don't have to go all poor ol' Mittippi Tate and immediately hire someone like Hud. We can attract major candidates.

Like Rick Ray I guess. That post is almost a carbon copy of many I read when people were making it hard on Stans in hopes of getting rid of him. It didn't work out like we though then.

[CadaverDawg]

You have a serious probably, I am no where near what you think I am. For your information, I was never a Croom fan, I also caught hell for saying it was time for JWS to go from some of my best friends. I also was telling another good friend shannondawg who loves Stansbury he needed to go. So labeling me on things you have no clue about is what is wrong with you. You talk way to much.

It's folks like you that are tearing the program, we aren't losing and we are competing a high level but yet you dream in wonderland! Please.


So you were being negative about Stans? How dare you!!

Are you making my point for me? Yes.

I'm tearing the program apart? A guy on a messageboard that DOESN't want to get rid of our coach, but likes to discuss ways we can improve? I'm ruining the program?

Who lives in Fantasy land?

[Liverpooldawg]

My coach would have told me it hit me in the hands. If you can get both hands on it, you have a to catch it. No excuses. If you cannot catch on offense, you get to play defense.

But I only was a slow, small, white backup at a 4a MS high school. Not an sec starter. Must have different expectations for them.
Did you catch everyone that hit your hands? Do NFL relievers catch every one that hits their hands?

[Liverpooldawg]

You know, ED has been the best message board to read, but now, Mullen has brought expectations up to a level we have never experienced and folks like "The Dude who wishes he was a bad ass like Clint Eastwood" are making it hard to read!
Although I will give him a plus 1 for the post he made about him calling me out as a Gene wanna be. H
Hey CadaverDawg, stick to the comic relief post, you at least make me laugh!
TOTALLy agree here.

[CadaverDawg]

TOTALLy agree here.

Shocker. Go Croom!!

[basedog]

What is your problem? I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from, and all you're doing is making childish remarks about avatars and post count.
If you don't like me, don't read my posts. I am actually very positive about a lot of what Mullen does, but that doesn't make him free of criticism. Are you his wife? Don't like what I say? Pass over it or leave. Nobody's holding a gun to your head. Sounds like you'd like it better on the other board anyway. God forbid you ever go to SPS if you think I'm negative.

Don't expect to come here after a loss and find rainbows and butterflies.

Now wait a minute, one minute I'm an old fart, and now I'm childish? But yes I called out Croom and Stansbury, but the difference was they were losing, Mullen isn't there, and I sure don't expect rainbows and butterflies. I also question Mullen but not 17,000 post or more, you are way over the top, I realize Mullen has issues but nothing like you do.

[Liverpooldawg]

Who wants to fire Mullen? You guys get a little obvious criticism confused with people being spoiled and wanting to fire a coach. Criticisms after a loss are common. Doesn't mean people don't appreciate where we are. Growing a program to a new level doesn't make one free of criticism, especially when theyake 4 million per year. There's always things to improve on, and pointing them out on a messageboard doesn't make someone a spoiled gump...it makes them a fan. If we had all day around singing kumbaya for 5 years after Sly took us bowling, we wouldn't be where we are. So while some call it spoiled, others call it accountability and making sure we're maximizing potential.

When you relentlessly go after Mullen with the nasty tone you take it sure seems like you want to fire him. Your nasty tone is why I continually go after you. If you don't want to fire Mullen then lighten up a bit. You can criticize with out being relentlessly being nasty about it. I don't agree with everything Mullen does either, far from it. What I do know though is that he has taken us to heights I never thought I would ever see. While I might disagree with a few of the trees Mullen plants, the forest looks better than it ever has.

[Liverpooldawg]

I could live with what you say, but you are like a nagging woman that just keeps on nagging. Find another topic to bitch about, why with the same ole same negative crap, no way you are happy with Mullen, it's pretty obvious!

Congrats on the 17,102 post, pretty amazing. Does C34 pay you for the post?


LOL!

[BrunswickDawg]

Who wants to fire Mullen? You guys get a little obvious criticism confused with people being spoiled and wanting to fire a coach. Criticisms after a loss are common. Doesn't mean people don't appreciate where we are. Growing a program to a new level doesn't make one free of criticism, especially when theyake 4 million per year. There's always things to improve on, and pointing them out on a messageboard doesn't make someone a spoiled gump...it makes them a fan. If we had all day around singing kumbaya for 5 years after Sly took us bowling, we wouldn't be where we are. So while some call it spoiled, others call it accountability and making sure we're maximizing potential.

Considering there is a whole thread on "Do we need Art Briles or Gary Patterson", yeah, there are people suggesting we need a change. And we are only 14 months past having a considerable number of people on the Hud train. They are the spoiled gumps.

[Liverpooldawg]

What is your problem? I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from, and all you're doing is making childish remarks about avatars and post count.
If you don't like me, don't read my posts. I am actually very positive about a lot of what Mullen does, but that doesn't make him free of criticism. Are you his wife? Don't like what I say? Pass over it or leave. Nobody's holding a gun to your head. Sounds like you'd like it better on the other board anyway. God forbid you ever go to SPS if you think I'm negative.

Don't expect to come here after a loss and find rainbows and butterflies.
You aren't positive about Mullen. It's quite obvious from the way you post you detest him. It's the tone and the sheer volume of stuff. There is justified criticism, then there is what you do. Let's put it this way. If you were working for someone that talked about you the way you talk about Mullen would you be thinking he was about to run you off? I sure as heck would.

[KentuckyDawg13]

#needMoreStrain

[Liverpooldawg]

Shocker. Go Croom!!

Are you seriously using Croom in this? Is that where you think we are now?

[Maroonthirteen]

The old farts around here need to get over their MSU PTSD. I understand why they have it, but it's a different era. The amount of money in the SEC has totally changed the landscape. The days of us being 3-9 annually are gone forever. The gap between SEC bottom feeder, sans Vandy, and the non-P5 is huge. That's not to say a team like Eastern KY can't play with an SEC bottom feeder and give them a scare, but it takes them catching you on a night where you're flat and just going through the motions. Actually losing to a school like that is basically a fluke now, unless you're a raging dumpster fire.


I agree and disagree here. Yes, State does have a lot more money now. Yes, the money (and Mullen) have raised our program to a point that we can consistantly beat the CUSA types. We didn't in the 80s and early 90s. SO, that is true. However just as our ceiling has raised, so has Bama's, LSU, OM....etc. So, while we have put some distance between ourselves and CUSA......i don't think we have closed the gap but a fraction between us and the rest of the SEC.

The schools that should be bitching in regards to revenue producing results.......UGA, UT and UF. How those schools haven't won the east in years..........Is pitiful.

[LC Dawg]

One thing I would like to see changed is our return game. I was ok with being conservative on kick returns, especially punt returns, when I thought our offense was going to score a lot of points. Now that we are struggling on offense it is time to get Donald Gray, or someone dynamic, returning kicks. We need some short fields.
These next two games should be perfect to work on this. If something bad happens so what. If we can't overcome a muffed kick against Troy or Tech then the rest of the season doesn't interest me anyway.

[tcdog70]

I have enjoyed reading this Thread. I am a real old fart, and I think Dan has a lot of room for improvement. Yes ,I want Dan to be our Coach, but he does some stupid shit. He is a supposed offensive Guru but with the best QB and WR tandom in the SEC we can't score twenty points--come on man. I will say he is a dumbass until he get Bear the ball ten times a game and finds a way to put Donald Gray with a ball in his hand. Running #10 up the middle is beyond stupid as is asking him to pass protect against a DE. How a bout giving Dak the option to run or pass, you know put pressure on Linebackers and DBs and if you are gong to run a third down play don't run it at. The other teams all American defensive end.

[GreenheadDawg]

I have enjoyed reading this Thread. I am a real old fart, and I think Dan has a lot of room for improvement. Yes ,I want Dan to be our Coach, but he does some stupid shit. He is a supposed offensive Guru but with the best QB and WR tandom in the SEC we can't score twenty points--come on man. I will say he is a dumbass until he get Bear the ball ten times a game and finds a way to put Donald Gray with a ball in his hand. Running #10 up the middle is beyond stupid as is asking him to pass protect against a DE. How a bout giving Dak the option to run or pass, you know put pressure on Linebackers and DBs and if you are gong to run a third down play don't run it at. The other teams all American defensive end.

Spot on right there!

[TrapGame]

I have enjoyed reading this Thread. I am a real old fart, and I think Dan has a lot of room for improvement. Yes ,I want Dan to be our Coach, but he does some stupid shit. He is a supposed offensive Guru but with the best QB and WR tandom in the SEC we can't score twenty points--come on man. I will say he is a dumbass until he get Bear the ball ten times a game and finds a way to put Donald Gray with a ball in his hand. Running #10 up the middle is beyond stupid as is asking him to pass protect against a DE. How a bout giving Dak the option to run or pass, you know put pressure on Linebackers and DBs and if you are gong to run a third down play don't run it at. The other teams all American defensive end.

And you have a FR like Malik Dear that can catch a ball in the flat or run it out of a jet sweep and get into the secondary every time yet he gets no more carries in that series. Why? Dear is making Shump look like a SWAC RB but rarely sees meaningful snaps.

[War Machine Dawg]

Oh I thank you guys, very much. However, just because our history in football sucks, doesn't mean we can never criticize a coach that's winning or question why we're underperforming compared to our talent level.

You and basedog are arguing a totally different point in this thread. Nobody wants Mullen fired, but we're also not sitting around high fiving all year because we're better than the 3-8 days of old. You guys are the definition of poor ole MSU in this thread, Bc every moment you sit around content with 7-5, a Kentucky or someone like that passes you by. We have all of the advantages financially these days, to where we don't have to just be thankful we aren't an embarrassment anymore. So "Thank you" for helping get us to this point....now if you want to pass the torch and let us try to take it even a step further, we're up to the challenge.

Trust me, we're all thankful. Doesn't mean the job is done. It's an arms race now, or you run the risk of falling back to where you guys helped pull us out of. Does that make sense?

But seriously, "Thank you".

http://i.imgur.com/cuCPKY3.gif

[Liverpooldawg]

Oh I thank you guys, very much. However, just because our history in football sucks, doesn't mean we can never criticize a coach that's winning or question why we're underperforming compared to our talent level.

You and basedog are arguing a totally different point in this thread. Nobody wants Mullen fired, but we're also not sitting around high fiving all year because we're better than the 3-8 days of old. You guys are the definition of poor ole MSU in this thread, Bc every moment you sit around content with 7-5, a Kentucky or someone like that passes you by. We have all of the advantages financially these days, to where we don't have to just be thankful we aren't an embarrassment anymore. So "Thank you" for helping get us to this point....now if you want to pass the torch and let us try to take it even a step further, we're up to the challenge.

Trust me, we're all thankful. Doesn't mean the job is done. It's an arms race now, or you run the risk of falling back to where you guys helped pull us out of. Does that make sense?

But seriously, "Thank you".
Actually "poor old MSU" is hiring a new coach, loving him as long as he wins more games every year, starting to get on him and bash like heck when things turn down for even a little bit, and then running him off. You are doing EXACTLY what we have always done. It's time to try something new.

[chef dixon]

I think it has to be stated plain and simple that we don't have the full talent level of anyone in our division except maybe Arkansas. This is the cold hard truth that some of our fans are in denial about. We will likely never be able to recruit to MSU the way we really want to. Of course I wish Mullen were able to recruit better, but he makes up for it pretty damn well. In the end, we are criticizing the decisions of the one who was able to devise the floor plan that allowed MSU to be #1 in the nation for 5 straight weeks. There's not a single person on this message board that could have gotten us to where we are now, so it makes me think some of these decisions Mullen is being bashed for are not quite as simple as they seem.

For example, everyone on this board was begging for more running from Dak, well you got plenty of that and also the most unsynchronized game we've had offensively from start to finish. People started to think Holloway was playing well and should get some carries, but this week Mullen is an idiot for running him the same way he has had success this season. People wanted the young running backs to get some work, well Aeris fumbled. Look, I'm not saying I'm against some of the things people on this board are saying, but simply suggesting Mullen's job is hard as hell.

[SheltonChoked]

Nope, I didn't. But I expected to. And I expect our players to. I expect NFL players to catch everything they can touch. That's what they are paid to do.

[Barking 13]

Why we lost if you want specifics: Dak missed two throws on the fist two drives. He was under heavy pressure on one of them. One would have scored for sure. One very well may have. We wound up with a FG on one drive and nothing on the other. That's 11 points. The Williams fumble was another 7 points that should have been. That's 18 points. If you want to throw in allowing A&M to score right before the half that's another 7. That's a 25 point swing. We lost by 13.

On offense, no matter how much we mix it up, we are not going to find any consistency till we are able to block consistently. They do show a few signs of getting better but it's not happening on every play, not even close. We lost three guys that had played a LOT of games on the offensive line over the last four years. That was one of the main reasons why the talking heads were not high on us. It pains me to say it but they were right.

On defense it's the same story as last year really. We are having to compensate for deficiencies in the secondary. Last year we played it tighter than we do now and accepted that we were going to give up big plays at times. We had the offense to overcome it for the most part. It bit us in the games we lost. This year we are doing it differently by trying to keep everything in front of us. The hope is we get a take away or the offense will shoot itself in the foot. That didn't work last night consistently enough. A&M didn't do much foot shooting.

It is what it is. The question marks that were pointed out to us before the season, that we downplayed, turned out to be good questions and we haven't found satisfactory answers yet.

with this guy^^^^

[Barking 13]

While I admit to having some MSU PTSD, I think that too many people confuse acceptance of reality with complacency. Do I like 7-5 or 8-4? Not one damn bit, I ****ing hate losing and always have. Do I accept the reality that no matter what improvements we make from a coaching, facilities, & talent standpoint that more often than not we are going to be about 8-4? Damn straight. We play in the toughest division in the toughest conference in America. Go back and read many of your posts prior to last year. A lot of you pissing on Mullen were all about "we should be 8-4 on average with a couple of 10-2 seasons sprinkled in." But the 10-2 has turned you into a bunch of damn Gumps wanting to fire Saban because you don't want to admit that the media was right about our drop off this year. Grow up and appreciate that 1) this is a tough game; 2) that we finally have a competitive, but not perfect program; 3)we will never again have a program where it was 7 years ago.

Whoo! in my best Ric Flair voice....

[BoomBoom]

Actually "poor old MSU" is hiring a new coach, loving him as long as he wins more games every year, starting to get on him and bash like heck when things turn down for even a little bit, and then running him off. You are doing EXACTLY what we have always done. It's time to try something new.

ok, so do you view the losses the last year of football as bad luck, poor talent, or as the same on-field coaching mistakes Dan has always made?

[Barking 13]

and finally, to sum up the last 7 pages, we had a bad game, against a probably top 5 team, at home with 106,000 screaming fans. Get over yourselves man, it's just a freakin' game.
Did I like it? No, but I did see some nice things, and a shitload of mistakes... Thank God we don't have to paly another top 5'er this week... or for a few more weeks anyway...

[Liverpooldawg]

Nope, I didn't. But I expected to. And I expect our players to. I expect NFL players to catch everything they can touch. That's what they are paid to do.

But NFL players don't catch everything they can touch.

[Todd4State]

While I'm sure many of our fans were happy and would take 8-4 seasons back when we were Tech and 10 that doesn't mean that we should be satisfied winning only 8 games a year now that we have achieved that. We were number one in the country for five weeks last year- which means our ceiling is a National Championship.

You have to constantly look to improve and be critical in everything that you do in life to achieve your maximum potential. Just being satisfied with just winning 8 games is going to lead to complacency before long. And that will get us right back into 3 win season in no time.

Based on how Dan has performed this year with his questionable personnel decisions to questionable in game coaching decisions- he should be criticized for this year so far. Not given a pass.

Being satisfied with 8-4 because we sucked in 1985 is a loser's mentality.

[Todd4State]

But NFL players don't catch everything they can touch.

And when they do they get criticized for it. Ask Wes Welker.

[Todd4State]

Actually "poor old MSU" is hiring a new coach, loving him as long as he wins more games every year, starting to get on him and bash like heck when things turn down for even a little bit, and then running him off. You are doing EXACTLY what we have always done. It's time to try something new.

Bull shit. How many coaches have we "run off" too soon at MSU in football? Jackie? We let him run the program in the ground for THREE years. Croom? Yeah we fired him and we got burned there.** Felker had FOUR losing seasons in a row and only beat Ole Miss ONCE. And ZERO times his last THREE years with ZERO bowl appearances and two years after our worst season in modern MSU history. Bellard also had FOUR losing seasons before he was fired. The NCAA forced us to get rid of Tyler. I think Shira passed away or was close to it when Tyler took over and he was AWFUL as a coach and while I admit I don't know the specifics it doesn't sound like he was in much trouble in terms of being fired despite ONE winning season.

If anything history says we've waited way the hell too long- and it's because of fans like you who want to give a coach three years to "see if he can turn it around" and being blindly loyal because of a Liberty Bowl dream season of seven wins instead of seeing the obvious trends.

[Liverpooldawg]

ok, so do you view the losses the last year of football as bad luck, poor talent, or as the same on-field coaching mistakes Dan has always made?

What I've noticed in the last year there haven't been nearly as many losses as normal.

[Liverpooldawg]

While I'm sure many of our fans were happy and would take 8-4 seasons back when we were Tech and 10 that doesn't mean that we should be satisfied winning only 8 games a year now that we have achieved that. We were number one in the country for five weeks last year- which means our ceiling is a National Championship.

You have to constantly look to improve and be critical in everything that you do in life to achieve your maximum potential. Just being satisfied with just winning 8 games is going to lead to complacency before long. And that will get us right back into 3 win season in no time.

Based on how Dan has performed this year with his questionable personnel decisions to questionable in game coaching decisions- he should be criticized for this year so far. Not given a pass.

Being satisfied with 8-4 because we sucked in 1985 is a loser's mentality.

Why is it that not harping on negatives 24/7 and pointing out positives automatically means you are satisfied with things and don't want to improve? I always hate argument.

[Liverpooldawg]

Bull shit. How many coaches have we "run off" too soon at MSU in football? Jackie? We let him run the program in the ground for THREE years. Croom? Yeah we fired him and we got burned there.** Felker had FOUR losing seasons in a row and only beat Ole Miss ONCE. And ZERO times his last THREE years with ZERO bowl appearances and two years after our worst season in modern MSU history. Bellard also had FOUR losing seasons before he was fired. The NCAA forced us to get rid of Tyler. I think Shira passed away or was close to it when Tyler took over and he was AWFUL as a coach and while I admit I don't know the specifics it doesn't sound like he was in much trouble in terms of being fired despite ONE winning season.

If anything history says we've waited way the hell too long- and it's because of fans like you who want to give a coach three years to "see if he can turn it around" and being blindly loyal because of a Liberty Bowl dream season of seven wins instead of seeing the obvious trends.

You missed the point. It's not that we fire them too soon, it's that we give up on them too soon. When that happens, the end is inevitable. It's what we always have done. Perhaps if a significant portion of our fanbase didn't abandon ship at the first blip we wouldn't need to fire coaches so often. Even the BEST programs have downturns at times from year to year. In case you haven't noticed, our "down" years are getting better too. THAT is a better measure of progress than a single great year.

[Liverpooldawg]

Oh, FYI: If what I've always been told is true that isn't what happened to Tyler. We decided to split the AD and HC jobs (that may have been under NCAA influence) and Tyler refused to accept it. I could be wrong there though. Some of the older Dawgs than me might can set me straight.

As for Felker, He may be THE prime example of what I'm talking about. He was 5 points away from being 7-5 in 1990. Had he done that he might still be our HC. Sherrill came in and won with his players the next couple of years. I didn't argue the time, didn't even think about it. Everybody had given up by then. Since I have got older I have always wondered what would have happened had he got those points.

[Todd4State]

Why is it that not harping on negatives 24/7 and pointing out positives automatically means you are satisfied with things and don't want to improve? I always hate argument.

Because your group of friends are the ones saying things like "gee- I remember when we were only winning three games and I remember people saying "I would have been happy going 8-4 every year". Just try to enjoy it".

How else am I supposed to take that?

And whether you realize it or not- downgrading our program below its potential is just as or even more negative than someone wanting to run off Dan for screwing up as a coach. How dare we question Dan Mullen because he is better than Croom?

It's hilarious to me that you are blindly loyal to Dan- and in the meantime Dan himself is slowly making the changes that I called for- and you attempted to call me out about five weeks ago. We'll see how that works out in the end- but if Dan goes to Dear and we have a running game we will likely meet or exceed our potential these last seven games. But it will still be disappointing in light of losing to LSU by two points and Texas A&M by 13 because of the what could have been question surrounding Dan's personnel decisions.

[basedog]

[QUOTE=Todd4State;425156]Bull shit. How many coaches have we "run off" too soon at MSU in football? Jackie? We let him run the program in the ground for THREE years. Croom? Yeah we fired him and we got burned there.** Felker had FOUR losing seasons in a row and only beat Ole Miss ONCE. And ZERO times his last THREE years with ZERO bowl appearances and two years after our worst season in modern MSU history. Bellard also had FOUR losing seasons before he was fired. The NCAA forced us to get rid of Tyler. I think Shira passed away or was close to it when Tyler took over and he was AWFUL as a coach and while I admit I don't know the specifics it doesn't sound like he was in much trouble in terms of being fired despite ONE winning season.

If anything history says we've waited way the hell too long- and it's because of fans like you who want to give a coach three years to "see if he can turn it around" and being blindly loyal because of a Liberty Bowl dream season of seven wins instead of seeing the obvious trends

[Todd4State]

You missed the point. It's not that we fire them too soon, it's that we give up on them too soon. When that happens, the end is inevitable. It's what we always have done. Perhaps if a significant portion of our fanbase didn't abandon ship at the first blip we wouldn't need to fire coaches so often. Even the BEST programs have downturns at times from year to year. In case you haven't noticed, our "down" years are getting better too. THAT is a better measure of progress than a single great year.

That's Rainbowland. A good bit of our fan base had given up on Jackie around this time in 1996- right before he finished the year strong beating Bama and Ole Miss and then reeling of his best seasons at MSU. So, how did Jackie pull that off after many of our fans had given up on him? How did Croom pull off 2007 his best season after many of our fans had major questions about his ability as a coach? Your theory about the fans simply doesn't hold water- especially when only 1% of us actually have any influence into whatever coaching decisions are made whatsoever.

Yes, program do have "down" years- and their coaches get criticized for that as well. Ask Tusk.

[NCDawg]

While I'm sure many of our fans were happy and would take 8-4 seasons back when we were Tech and 10 that doesn't mean that we should be satisfied winning only 8 games a year now that we have achieved that. We were number one in the country for five weeks last year- which means our ceiling is a National Championship.

You have to constantly look to improve and be critical in everything that you do in life to achieve your maximum potential. Just being satisfied with just winning 8 games is going to lead to complacency before long. And that will get us right back into 3 win season in no time.

Based on how Dan has performed this year with his questionable personnel decisions to questionable in game coaching decisions- he should be criticized for this year so far. Not given a pass.

Being satisfied with 8-4 because we sucked in 1985 is a loser's mentality.

Totally agree.

[Liverpooldawg]

Because your group of friends are the ones saying things like "gee- I remember when we were only winning three games and I remember people saying "I would have been happy going 8-4 every year". Just try to enjoy it".

How else am I supposed to take that?

And whether you realize it or not- downgrading our program below its potential is just as or even more negative than someone wanting to run off Dan for screwing up as a coach. How dare we question Dan Mullen because he is better than Croom?

It's hilarious to me that you are blindly loyal to Dan- and in the meantime Dan himself is slowly making the changes that I called for- and you attempted to call me out about five weeks ago. We'll see how that works out in the end- but if Dan goes to Dear and we have a running game we will likely meet or exceed our potential these last seven games. But it will still be disappointing in light of losing to LSU by two points and Texas A&M by 13 because of the what could have been question surrounding Dan's personnel decisions.

Well, the way you should take it is literally. The state of the program right now IS much better than it has ever been with the possible exception of a few years under Allyn McKeen. Why exactly is pointing that out "downgrading the program's potential"? I don't get that at all. Last year proved what the program's potential is. We CAN win it all here and I think we eventually will.

If you are saying that I want to stick with Shump, you haven't read many of my posts. I said when we signed him, under another name on another board, that I saw him play in HS. I didn't think he was an SEC RB then and I don't now. I just don't harp on it 24/7. I know some of his family. From what I know he is a good guy. I also watch the games. He is the worst runner of the bunch, but he is the best blocker. With the state of our line right now, that is going to get him some playing time at RB. I don't like it, but I do understand why he is playing. This team is still evolving. Give it time.

[Liverpooldawg]

That's Rainbowland. A good bit of our fan base had given up on Jackie around this time in 1996- right before he finished the year strong beating Bama and Ole Miss and then reeling of his best seasons at MSU. So, how did Jackie pull that off after many of our fans had given up on him? How did Croom pull off 2007 his best season after many of our fans had major questions about his ability as a coach? Your theory about the fans simply doesn't hold water- especially when only 1% of us actually have any influence into whatever coaching decisions are made whatsoever.

Yes, program do have "down" years- and their coaches get criticized for that as well. Ask Tusk.

So, have you given up on Dan or not?

As for JWS, you answered your own question, whether you knew it or not. He won enough late to get the swimmers clamoring to get back on board before they got him fired. We WERE about to fire him. He would have probably had the same seasons post 1996 whether he had won those games or not, IF he had survived. If we had lost he wouldn't have survived. You are right about the 1%. But who influences them?

[Todd4State]

Well, the way you should take it is literally. The state of the program right now IS much better than it has ever been with the possible exception of a few years under Allyn McKeen. Why exactly is pointing that out "downgrading the program's potential"? I don't get that at all. Last year proved what the program's potential is. We CAN win it all here and I think we eventually will.

If you are saying that I want to stick with Shump, you haven't read many of my posts. I said when we signed him, under another name on another board, that I saw him play in HS. I didn't think he was an SEC RB then and I don't now. I just don't harp on it 24/7. I know some of his family. From what I know he is a good guy. I also watch the games. He is the worst runner of the bunch, but he is the best blocker. With the state of our line right now, that is going to get him some playing time at RB. I don't like it, but I do understand why he is playing. This team is still evolving. Give it time.

That's not the negative part.

The negative part is that you are essentially suggesting that we are doing the best we can right now and we should all be happy- and we shouldn't question anything because our history sucks. That = complacency.

I don't know what you said about Shumpert- but the reality is as long as he is our feature back and continues to struggle it will get discussed because this is football season no matter how you or anyone else feels about him.

Yes- this team is evolving- but it shouldn't take until game 5 for our coach to start to correct the issues. That should have occurred during or after USM.

[Liverpooldawg]

Oh, I also saw Williams and Lee play in HS. They did look like the SEC RBs back then. I never saw Dear.

[Todd4State]

So, have you given up on Dan or not?

As for JWS, you answered your own question, whether you knew it or not. He won enough late to get the swimmers clamoring to get back on board before they got him fired. We WERE about to fire him. He would have probably had the same seasons post 1996 whether he had won those games or not, IF he had survived. If we had lost he wouldn't have survived. You are right about the 1%. But who influences them?

I have repeatedly said that Dan shouldn't be fired. I and pretty much all of us simply want him to play the best players. Period.

Actually, you haven't answered MY question. Under your theory because we gave up on Jackie, he shouldn't have been able to recover. So why was he able to turn it around? Rumors were rampant about Bobby Wallace before Alabama 1996- and you can't tell me that somehow in your Rainbowland world that our fans just all of a sudden decided to "believe" before that one game against an opponent that we hadn't defeated in 16 years and we pull off the upset that led to that run. Because that's ridiculous on so many levels.

I don't know who influences the 1% but I highly doubt they put a lot of stock into Joe Fan on a message board. I imagine that most of them have at least a similar football IQ to the average poster here and can draw their own conclusions. I would imagine that many of them have access to former players and they would probably be influenced more by their opinion compared to mine or yours.

[Liverpooldawg]

That's not the negative part.

The negative part is that you are essentially suggesting that we are doing the best we can right now and we should all be happy- and we shouldn't question anything because our history sucks. That = complacency.

I don't know what you said about Shumpert- but the reality is as long as he is our feature back and continues to struggle it will get discussed because this is football season no matter how you or anyone else feels about him.

Yes- this team is evolving- but it shouldn't take until game 5 for our coach to start to correct the issues. That should have occurred during or after USM.

I have said no such thing. What I have said, and still say, is that harping on the negative SO much with out recognizing that there are positives is not healthy for the program if too many people get that way. It's been almost incessant here this year. Recognising that things are better than they have ever been doesn't EVER mean you don't want them to get even better. Not being able to recognize and acknowledge the positive is a SURE guarantee of failure in almost anything.

If you think correcting "issues" is a simple matter of using one game to do it...................then I understand why you want to jump ship. Football ain't computer programming. You can't debug it and get the code right and always get the desired result after that.

I

[Liverpooldawg]

I have repeatedly said that Dan shouldn't be fired. I and pretty much all of us simply want him to play the best players. Period.

Actually, you haven't answered MY question. Under your theory because we gave up on Jackie, he shouldn't have been able to recover. So why was he able to turn it around? Rumors were rampant about Bobby Wallace before Alabama 1996- and you can't tell me that somehow in your Rainbowland world that our fans just all of a sudden decided to "believe" before that one game against an opponent that we hadn't defeated in 16 years and we pull off the upset that led to that run. Because that's ridiculous on so many levels.

I don't know who influences the 1% but I highly doubt they put a lot of stock into Joe Fan on a message board. I imagine that most of them have at least a similar football IQ to the average poster here and can draw their own conclusions. I would imagine that many of them have access to former players and they would probably be influenced more by their opinion compared to mine or yours.

I did answer it. Actually YOU answered it. He won enough at the end to shut up the whining before it got him. It hadn't been going on long enough then to totally kill his recruiting.
The 1% interact with others of us. Those people interact with still more. Very few people form opinions in isolation.

And good for you not wanting Dan fired. That's a start.

[Todd4State]

I have said no such thing. What I have said, and still say, is that harping on the negative SO much with out recognizing that there are positives is not healthy for the program if too many people get that way. It's been almost incessant here this year. Recognising that things are better than they have ever been doesn't EVER mean you don't want them to get even better. Not being able to recognize and acknowledge the positive is a SURE guarantee of failure in almost anything.

If you think correcting "issues" is a simple matter of using one game to do it...................then I understand why you want to jump ship. Football ain't computer programming. You can't debug it and get the code right and always get the desired result after that.

I

True- but things begin to get fixed a lot sooner if you start in game 1-2 as opposed to game 6.

Maybe we wouldn't harp on the "negative" as much if we didn't have you trying to police everyone's thoughts and creating an 8 page thread? Just a thought.

[Todd4State]

I did answer it. Actually YOU answered it. He won enough at the end to shut up the whining before it got him. It hadn't been going on long enough then to totally kill his recruiting.
The 1% interact with others of us. Those people interact with still more. Very few people form opinions in isolation.

Keep spinning. Your theory was wrong from the beginning. And then you conveniently avoided the part about Croom.

The 1% aren't forming their opinions in isolation if they are actually WATCHING the game on their own and talking to their people that they trust- and that's not me or you.

[Liverpooldawg]

True- but things begin to get fixed a lot sooner if you start in game 1-2 as opposed to game 6.

Maybe we wouldn't harp on the "negative" as much if we didn't have you trying to police everyone's thoughts and creating an 8 page thread? Just a thought.

I'm not trying to police anyone's thoughts. I'm just advocating a different viewpoint. Positive points aren't very popular here it seems. There is nothing wrong with pointing out negatives. It's just the nasty tone and the sheer volume of it that gets to me sometimes. That's when I start posting counterpoints. I agree with some of your individual points more than you realize. I guess maybe its a forest/trees thing. I look at the forest when it comes to Mullin, you look at the trees.

[Liverpooldawg]

Keep spinning. Your theory was wrong from the beginning. And then you conveniently avoided the part about Croom.

The 1% aren't forming their opinions in isolation if they are actually WATCHING the game on their own and talking to their people that they trust- and that's not me or you.

Croom? I enjoyed his one decent year but it didn't take much to see it was a fluke. I didn't want to hire him but I wanted him to succeed in the worst way once we did. He didn't. I was happy when we let him go. We never even approached what we have now under him.

[BoomBoom]

What I've noticed in the last year there haven't been nearly as many losses as normal.

compared to what, poor lil' old MSU of the past, or to a competent SEC program?

and way to not answer the question. can you just say if you think Dan has coached well on the field or not?

[Schultzy]

X
Oh, FYI: If what I've always been told is true that isn't what happened to Tyler. We decided to split the AD and HC jobs (that may have been under NCAA influence) and Tyler refused to accept it. I could be wrong there though. Some of the older Dawgs than me might can set me straight.

As for Felker, He may be THE prime example of what I'm talking about. He was 5 points away from being 7-5 in 1990. Had he done that he might still be our HC. Sherrill came in and won with his players the next couple of years. I didn't argue the time, didn't even think about it. Everybody had given up by then. Since I have got older I have always wondered what would have happened had he got those points.
You're correct on the Tyler deal, divorcing the HC from the AD position was blasphemy in those days and Tyler was the first in the conference to have to deal with this change. Bear, Shug Jordan and the other HC's in the SEC pushed him not to accept it bc it meant the same for them down the road. They were glad to see him go as he was recruiting well and winning a lot. It was the beginning of the UNM private investigation era bc they were getting very uncomfortable w his success in recruiting and on the field. What they did I to Tyler was the same they did to Jackie, and allowing MSU to become good at football just wouldn't do. The sad thing is he would've been an even better coach without having to deal with the AD responsibilities. We were passing um by and they knew it, that's why the Larry Gillard situation had to happen.

[Liverpooldawg]

compared to what, poor lil' old MSU of the past, or to a competent SEC program?

and way to not answer the question. can you just say if you think Dan has coached well on the field or not?

Both actually. I suggest you look it up.

Dan has made some mistakes, who doesn't. Overall he has coached very, very well on the field. What he has done here has been nothing short of remarkable.

[Liverpooldawg]

X
You're correct on the Tyler deal, divorcing the HC from the AD position was blasphemy in those days and Tyler was the first in the conference to have to deal with this change. Bear, Shug Jordan and the other HC's in the SEC pushed him not to accept it bc it meant the same for them down the road. They were glad to see him go as he was recruiting well and winning a lot. It was the beginning of the UNM private investigation era bc they were getting very uncomfortable w his success in recruiting and on the field. What they did I to Tyler was the same they did to Jackie, and allowing MSU to become good at football just wouldn't do. The sad thing is he would've been an even better coach without having to deal with the AD responsibilities. We were passing um by and they knew it, that's why the Larry Gillard situation had to happen.

The stuff you added is pretty much what I always heard too.

[CarolinaDawgs]

Exactly. Sometimes players have to make plays, and that's twice that Shump got two hands on the ball and didn't make the catch. When you play RB in the SEC, if you get two hands on it, you should catch it. Nobody is debating that the throw was poor....but Dak cant stick it in Shumpert's facemask in order for him to catch it....our starting RB has to make a damn play.

It would be one thing if he caught it but fell down in the process....but no, he hasn't caught either of them, much less kept his feet. That's what fullbacks do though on tough passes. It's on Mullen for putting a 4th down conversion play in the hands of Concrete Boots in the flat, forcing him to not only make a catch, but run more than a foot for a first down....that is a design and personnel problem more than anything.

The design on both plays were phenomenal, but the execution not so much.

[Dawgcentral]

We've got a coach in Mullen that can and will continue to win at MSU. Might never win a national title. Who the hell knows.

He's going to make mistakes. He might always make mistakes. The LSU game is on him. A&M is on the players that didn't make the plays. I'm not in the loop enough to know why the youngest of our players are not getting more snaps. I suspect it's because they could give up 7 or 3 points in the game at any given moment. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Sherrill was highly criticized for his clock management before the half and at the end of games. He was "Old School" and depended almost solely on the running game and having a wide receiver "go up and get it". It worked back in the day,...sometimes.

McKeen wanted to run The Veer. Fans wanted him to run the Notre Dame Box.

Bellard said we'd win the SEC in his last year, and we won one game against an OOC opponent. Didn't he have Don Smith on the bench in his last year before Felker took over? Not sure if my memory is accurate there.

My point is, all of our best coaches have been criticized. We all expect success. Even us old guys expect to win it all one day. I've always felt like we could, even given our once limited resources. Mullen has driven the program closer to that dream than any other in our lifetime. he could lose 4-5 games this year,..and yeah, that would suck. And I also believe Cadaver when he says he doesn't want him fired. You gotta be a damn idiot to call for Mullen's head at this point in time, and Cadaver ain't that.

Take a deep breath folks. I'll be willing to jump in there and be damn critical if we win only 6 this year,..even 7. But at this point in time, I'm still hoping to see these players develop a bit more. The talent level is rising.

More reps means more playing time. The young guys have now earned the reps.

[Todd4State]

I'm not trying to police anyone's thoughts. I'm just advocating a different viewpoint. Positive points aren't very popular here it seems. There is nothing wrong with pointing out negatives. It's just the nasty tone and the sheer volume of it that gets to me sometimes. That's when I start posting counterpoints. I agree with some of your individual points more than you realize. I guess maybe its a forest/trees thing. I look at the forest when it comes to Mullin, you look at the trees.

In other words you are trolling.

[Liverpooldawg]

In other words you are trolling.

If that's what you call views different than yours then.............. sure.