Current and future of the running back position

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I'm a bit confused on what is actually happening with our running backs. Shump is Shump and now that we know his limitations, he should be put in a position to play to his strengths going forward. After him it's Lee and Williams and they're not seeing the field. Do we have confidence that either of them will develop into a SEC running back or are they limited as well? Is there problem a physical limitation or is it more of a mental thing with them? After that we have Gibson and he was great in high school, but we don't know how he will pan out. We aren't after any running backs for the current class, but 2017 looks good. Only problem is that is several years away and we need help now. Will we see a Juco running back in the mix to possibly bridge the gap or do we have what we have?

[RC3]

Didn't we sign a speedster out of Alabama last year? I seem to remember really liking his tape

[AROB44]

We also have Alec Murphy from Missouri.....6'0" 225

HIGH SCHOOL: Arguably, the top running back prospect in the state of Missouri ? The first Division I prospect to come out of Nixa (Mo.) High School in 20 years ? Consensus three-star back ? Ranked the No. 9 overall player in the state of Missouri by 247Sports Composite, No. 6 by Rivals.com and Scout.com and No. 7 by ESPN.com ? Notched 166 carries for 867 yards and 12 touchdowns in helping Nixa reach the Class 5 state title game as a senior ? Rushed for 1,973 yards and scored 22 touchdowns as a junior in 2013 ? Timed at 4.49 in the 40-yard dash ?

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Didn't we sign a speedster out of Alabama last year? I seem to remember really liking his tape

Keith Mixon and yes, his highlight tape is impressive. He's just on the smaller side and I don't think he'll be used as a RB in the traditional sense.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

We also have Alec Murphy from Missouri.....6'0" 225

HIGH SCHOOL: Arguably, the top running back prospect in the state of Missouri ? The first Division I prospect to come out of Nixa (Mo.) High School in 20 years ? Consensus three-star back ? Ranked the No. 9 overall player in the state of Missouri by 247Sports Composite, No. 6 by Rivals.com and Scout.com and No. 7 by ESPN.com ? Notched 166 carries for 867 yards and 12 touchdowns in helping Nixa reach the Class 5 state title game as a senior ? Rushed for 1,973 yards and scored 22 touchdowns as a junior in 2013 ? Timed at 4.49 in the 40-yard dash ?

Several people have claimed he won't see a down at RB and he's likely to move to LB, so that's why it's concerning going forward.

[War Machine Dawg]

Lee is developing fine. It's just the typical Mullen "WTF?" personnel stuff. He appears to know the plays and has looked good pass blocking in limited action. Unless he's got butterfingers and no one is talking about it, which I find hard to believe, I can't think of a good reason he isn't getting more reps. There's the incident about a missed curfew a few weeks ago, but that's something almost every coach would handle with a one half suspension and a shitload of running at practice. But Mullen tends to put guys in the doghouse for ridiculously extended periods for relatively minor infractions, so that could well be why Lee isn't playing.

Dear could play RB, but I think we like him as a super athlete better. And I'm fine with that.

Gibson, Murphy, and Mixon are all redshirting. Don't really know what to expect from them. Lots of people seem to think we see Mixon in a similar role as Dear. Haven't heard the talk of moving Murphy to LB, but that doesn't mean anything. We'd be nuts not to give him a look at RB with that build, speed, and his stats, though.

It shouldn't be taking RBs this long to get on the field unless they're just completely lazy and refuse to do the work off-field. If it's taking this long to learn the playbook as a RB, then our playbook is too damn complicated and needs to be burned. RB is by far the easiest position for players to come in early and have major impact. You see true freshmen RBs explode onto the scene and help carry teams every year. Hell, Zeke Elliot did it for tOSU last season. But somehow we're supposed to believe that Lee (and possibly Williams) aren't ready/capable of contributing nearly 16 months into their college career? Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

[maroonmania]

Lee is developing fine. It's just the typical Mullen "WTF?" personnel stuff. He appears to know the plays and has looked good pass blocking in limited action. Unless he's got butterfingers and no one is talking about it, which I find hard to believe, I can't think of a good reason he isn't getting more reps. There's the incident about a missed curfew a few weeks ago, but that's something almost every coach would handle with a one half suspension and a shitload of running at practice. But Mullen tends to put guys in the doghouse for ridiculously extended periods for relatively minor infractions, so that could well be why Lee isn't playing.

Dear could play RB, but I think we like him as a super athlete better. And I'm fine with that.

Gibson, Murphy, and Mixon are all redshirting. Don't really know what to expect from them. Lots of people seem to think we see Mixon in a similar role as Dear. Haven't heard the talk of moving Murphy to LB, but that doesn't mean anything. We'd be nuts not to give him a look at RB with that build, speed, and his stats, though.

It shouldn't be taking RBs this long to get on the field unless they're just completely lazy and refuse to do the work off-field. If it's taking this long to learn the playbook as a RB, then our playbook is too damn complicated and needs to be burned. RB is by far the easiest position for players to come in early and have major impact. You see true freshmen RBs explode onto the scene and help carry teams every year. Hell, Zeke Elliot did it for tOSU last season. But somehow we're supposed to believe that Lee (and possibly Williams) aren't ready/capable of contributing nearly 16 months into their college career? Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit.

Actually pretty shocking that, given the lack of production from Shump in the ACTUAL running of the ball, that neither Lee or Williams or even Dear (who I think should be a RB) can get 5 or 6 carries between them in a meaningful game. Its like Mullen refuses to trust a FR at all in an SEC game even if the experienced guy is giving us almost no production.

[Jack Lambert]

I think the problem we have is not one guy can do it all. shump can block and catch. the other guys can run but can't block or catch. I guess the coaches have chosen to be a pass first team and if that's the case Shump is the man.

[maroonmania]

I think the problem we have is not one guy can do it all. shump can block and catch. the other guys can run but can't block or catch. I guess the coaches have chosen to be a pass first team and if that's the case Shump is the man.

The problem is not that Shump is in the majority of the time, the problem is that, other than Holloway, he is in there ALL the time.

[msstate7]

The problem is not that Shump is in the majority of the time, the problem is that, other than Holloway, he is in there ALL the time.

Lee/Williams must not can pass protect for crap, fumble in practice, or just aren't doing right off the field

[smootness]

I like what we have going forward at RB.

Lee/Williams - FR
Gibson/Murphy - redshirting
Dear/Mixon - FR/redshirting, will both likely see time in the backfield.

We don't seem to have any big-time RB prospects on the short-term horizon in recruiting, but whoever we get in the 2017 class will probably have a decent chance of starting right away.

Ballard wasn't a big-time recruit, Perkins wasn't a big-time recruit, Robinson wasn't a big-time recruit...we'll be fine at RB.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

I like what we have going forward at RB.

Lee/Williams - FR
Gibson/Murphy - redshirting
Dear/Mixon - FR/redshirting, will both likely see time in the backfield.

We don't seem to have any big-time RB prospects on the short-term horizon in recruiting, but whoever we get in the 2017 class will probably have a decent chance of starting right away.

Ballard wasn't a big-time recruit, Perkins wasn't a big-time recruit, Robinson wasn't a big-time recruit...we'll be fine at RB.

Kylin Hill out of Columbus (2017) is supposed to be pretty damn good.

[defiantdog]

Keith Mixon and yes, his highlight tape is impressive. He's just on the smaller side and I don't think he'll be used as a RB in the traditional sense.

Mixon is bigger and faster than Holloway. He's being redshirted because he needs to be redshirted. But he will be a lot better asset than Holloway. Plus, he can break tackles.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Mixon only being rated a 3 star last year was crazy.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Mixon is working at the slot. I'm sure he will get some jet sweeps & things of that nature but he's a Slot WR not a RB.

[defiantdog]

Kylin Hill out of Columbus (2017) is supposed to be pretty damn good.

Gibson is a reincarnation of Ballard. He's not the fastest or biggest, but he can break off of tackles and he squares his shoulders immediately out of the backfield.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I like what we have going forward at RB.

Lee/Williams - FR
Gibson/Murphy - redshirting
Dear/Mixon - FR/redshirting, will both likely see time in the backfield.

We don't seem to have any big-time RB prospects on the short-term horizon in recruiting, but whoever we get in the 2017 class will probably have a decent chance of starting right away.

Ballard wasn't a big-time recruit, Perkins wasn't a big-time recruit, Robinson wasn't a big-time recruit...we'll be fine at RB.

Looks great on paper, hopefully one of them can step up. Your mentioning of Ballard, Perk, and Jrob brings up an interesting question. If we were able to run with those lightly recruited players, then why are we now struggling to run with two 4 star backs? Is it a lack of a road grater offensive guard? Do we need the fullback position back? Or are these guys just not as good?

[defiantdog]

Mixon is working at the slot. I'm sure he will get some jet sweeps & things of that nature but he's a Slot WR not a RB.

Which is the position he played most of his high school career. Depending on how we use Dear in the future, I see Mixon getting a few snaps in the backfield to add speed to the position.

[maroonmania]

we'll be fine at RB.

I agree but its sort of ironic that everyone was saying that prior to this season as well and its pretty obvious that the biggest missing piece on this team right now is Josh Robinson.

[HoopsDawg]

I like what we have going forward at RB.

Lee/Williams - FR
Gibson/Murphy - redshirting
Dear/Mixon - FR/redshirting, will both likely see time in the backfield.

We don't seem to have any big-time RB prospects on the short-term horizon in recruiting, but whoever we get in the 2017 class will probably have a decent chance of starting right away.

Ballard wasn't a big-time recruit, Perkins wasn't a big-time recruit, Robinson wasn't a big-time recruit...we'll be fine at RB.

I like the playmaking potential of Dear and Mixon. Gibson has a chance to be a good back in time. I like his potential more than Lee/Williams/Murphy who I group in the same category.

This weekend Shump is going to play a critical role in the pass game as a receiver and a pass protector. Hopefully, Dak and Holloway can provide the rushing yards. I'm hoping Dear too, but not holding my breath.

[SallyStansbury]

Gabe Jackson + Hanrahan + Relf + misdirection = much different approach running the ball in 09-10. Not 100% sure I have the years right, but I used to watch those highlight clips and I recall us looking much different running out of that personnel package plus defenders were more on their heels with less predictability. So much of what we do now is "straight at them" and I fear we don't have the strength/quickness on the Oline to push anyone backwards, nor the strength/technique to hold blocks long enough for Shump/Dak to run straight ahead, yet that is what we continue to do with our play calls. Holloway makes it look better because he is quicker. I like the adjustments we have seen with the short passing game; Dak looks sharp.

[mstatefan91]

It's just Mullen doing what Mullen does. Senior players get the reps. Any reason he gives is just to keep the fans/critics quiet.

I think it all goes back to the way he recruits and his overall philosphy. He seems to have a hard time not playing the guys that have put in a whole lot of work for 2 or 3 years because his system is: you put in the work and I'll play you.

Also, probably just a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in. I don't think he can stand being wrong about a player's potential.

[AROB44]

"just a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in"

Name me a decent head coach that is not somewhat arrogant....May as well go ahead and add hardheaded as well. All of the better coaches have these traits.

[smootness]

It's just Mullen doing what Mullen does. Senior players get the reps. Any reason he gives is just to keep the fans/critics quiet.

I think it all goes back to the way he recruits and his overall philosphy. He seems to have a hard time not playing the guys that have put in a whole lot of work for 2 or 3 years because his system is: you put in the work and I'll play you.

Also, probably just a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in. I don't think he can stand being wrong about a player's potential.

Johnthan Banks played over Marcus Washington and Damein Anderson. Nickoe Whitley played over Zach Smith and Wade Bonner. Boyd and Cox played over Charles Burns and Reggie Odom. Gabe Jackson played over everybody as a freshman. Vick Ballard played over Robert Elliott, even when healthy. Dak Prescott, when healthy, played over Tyler Russell. Taveze Calhoun played over Anderson and Louis Watson. A bunch of guys have played over Damien Robinson and Archie Muniz. Plenty of guys have seen significant playing time as either true freshmen or redshirt freshmen, from Justin Malone to De'Runnya Wilson to Chris Jones to Fred Ross.

Will Redmond saw extensive time as soon as he was eligible. Brandon Bryant is starting to get time over Deontay Evans. Dear is playing, Gerri Green is getting more and more time over guys older than him.

Every program will see guys with more experience playing above guys with less, on average. Meanwhile, fans see more in recruiting highlights than they do in practice film, so we build them up in our minds and assume they will be able to do similar things right away at the next level. We see one good play against NW State and suddenly there's no rationale possible for why a younger player isn't playing more except 'Mullen is arrogant'.

Mullen wants to win more than even we do. Always remember that.

[smootness]

Looks great on paper, hopefully one of them can step up. Your mentioning of Ballard, Perk, and Jrob brings up an interesting question. If we were able to run with those lightly recruited players, then why are we now struggling to run with two 4 star backs? Is it a lack of a road grater offensive guard? Do we need the fullback position back? Or are these guys just not as good?

Well, unless you have a stud freshmen, all you ever have to go on when looking 2-3 years ahead is on paper.

I think the reason we're struggling right now has various factors. 1) Yes, I do think our OL is taking some time to gel. 2) Yes, I think Ballard, Perkins, and Robinson were all more natural runners than Shumpert. Recruiting rankings tend to overvalue size and speed and undervalue vision and agility. 3) Dak is clearly focusing more on the passing game than on the running game right now. I wish he would get back to what he did for most of last year, but I do think it's having an effect. The only times he is running are on designed runs up the middle. He's hardly keeping any zone reads, and it seems like those are mostly pre-scripted, meaning before the snap Dak already knows whether he's going to keep the read or give it up. He's given up several already when it looked like he had a clear running path in front of him.

The good news is that our passing game is definitely ahead of where it's pretty much ever been. However, we're throwing more and completing more of our passes, but we're also getting fewer yards per attempt. I would personally rather get back to building on the running game and hitting them for big passes when they're open, but I'll defer to Dak and the coaching staff until it starts to lose us a bunch of games. I also think defenses are telling themselves they won't let Dak beat them on the ground, so they're taking that away and we're adjusting to that.

[mstatefan91]

Johnthan Banks played over Marcus Washington and Damein Anderson. Nickoe Whitley played over Zach Smith and Wade Bonner. Boyd and Cox played over Charles Burns and Reggie Odom. Gabe Jackson played over everybody as a freshman. Vick Ballard played over Robert Elliott, even when healthy. Dak Prescott, when healthy, played over Tyler Russell. Taveze Calhoun played over Anderson and Louis Watson. A bunch of guys have played over Damien Robinson and Archie Muniz. Plenty of guys have seen significant playing time as either true freshmen or redshirt freshmen, from Justin Malone to De'Runnya Wilson to Chris Jones to Fred Ross.

Will Redmond saw extensive time as soon as he was eligible. Brandon Bryant is starting to get time over Deontay Evans. Dear is playing, Gerri Green is getting more and more time over guys older than him.

Every program will see guys with more experience playing above guys with less, on average. Meanwhile, fans see more in recruiting highlights than they do in practice film, so we build them up in our minds and assume they will be able to do similar things right away at the next level. We see one good play against NW State and suddenly there's no rationale possible for why a younger player isn't playing more except 'Mullen is arrogant'.

Mullen wants to win more than even we do. Always remember that.

Fair points. However, when Dak and Tyler were both healthy, they shared reps.

Just don't understand how Shump is still the guy. He obviously can't hit a hole. The Lee/Williams tandem cannot be any worse. Hell, I'd rather they be in and fumble it every once in a while if they could provide just a hundred yards combined with a couple of TD's.

But the coaches do know better. I'm just frustrated with the running game as we all are..

[smootness]

I agree with you on Shumpert. I think it's clearly time to go with someone else a majority of the time. Shumpert still has definitely value but needs to be utilized right. I would like to see what some other guys can do. I'm just saying I don't think Mullen is doing it because he's decided he's going to handcuff himself to guys with more seniority regardless of ability.

[Really Clark?]

Fair points. However, when Dak and Tyler were both healthy, they shared reps.

Just don't understand how Shump is still the guy. He obviously can't hit a hole. The Lee/Williams tandem cannot be any worse. Hell, I'd rather they be in and fumble it every once in a while if they could provide just a hundred yards combined with a couple of TD's.

But the coaches do know better. I'm just frustrated with the running game as we all are..

Not as much as people remember. There were only 3 games where they could truly share time anyway I believe. LSU, Bowling Green and Texas A & M. Dak started and played the bulk of the LSU game but really Tyler should have probably played more. He threw really well that game and got us up. The Bowlinv Green game Tyler started but that was the last OOC game of the year so you can see what they were doing for Tyler that game. That game was split a good bit. And then the Texas A & M Tyler started but that was the week of Dak burying his mom. So that was understandable as well. After the first 2 or 3 series it was pretty much Dak for the rest of the game until he was hurt late. The Kentucky game Tyler played one series. Tyler missed 6 regular season games and Dak missed 2 3/4 at the end.

[Todd4State]

Johnthan Banks played over Marcus Washington and Damein Anderson. Nickoe Whitley played over Zach Smith and Wade Bonner. Boyd and Cox played over Charles Burns and Reggie Odom. Gabe Jackson played over everybody as a freshman. Vick Ballard played over Robert Elliott, even when healthy. Dak Prescott, when healthy, played over Tyler Russell. Taveze Calhoun played over Anderson and Louis Watson. A bunch of guys have played over Damien Robinson and Archie Muniz. Plenty of guys have seen significant playing time as either true freshmen or redshirt freshmen, from Justin Malone to De'Runnya Wilson to Chris Jones to Fred Ross.

Will Redmond saw extensive time as soon as he was eligible. Brandon Bryant is starting to get time over Deontay Evans. Dear is playing, Gerri Green is getting more and more time over guys older than him.

Every program will see guys with more experience playing above guys with less, on average. Meanwhile, fans see more in recruiting highlights than they do in practice film, so we build them up in our minds and assume they will be able to do similar things right away at the next level. We see one good play against NW State and suddenly there's no rationale possible for why a younger player isn't playing more except 'Mullen is arrogant'.

Mullen wants to win more than even we do. Always remember that.

Or five carries against NWS with double the average that Shumpert achieved against the same team in half the carries.

If the rumors about Lee and Williams missing curfew are true- then that is the explanation. Dan is basically being overly strict.

Sit them out for a half or even a game- but don't penalize them the entire season.

We all know how Dan is- which is why I think a lot of people seem to have shifted the focus to Dear.

[Todd4State]

"just a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in"

Name me a decent head coach that is not somewhat arrogant....May as well go ahead and add hardheaded as well. All of the better coaches have these traits.

And it is usually their downfall. A big reason why Bear Bryant is seen as the legend he is is because around 1970 he was willing to change his offense to the wishbone. That worked out pretty well for them in the 1970's.

[smootness]

Or five carries against NWS with double the average that Shumpert achieved against the same team in half the carries.

You're making my point for me. We're talking about 5 carries.

[War Machine Dawg]

I think the problem we have is not one guy can do it all. shump can block and catch. the other guys can run but can't block or catch. I guess the coaches have chosen to be a pass first team and if that's the case Shump is the man.

aGAIN, where is this coming from? In actual game action, and from what observers at practice say, Lee and Williams are fine in the pass blocking department. And they were both used extensively in the passing game in the spring. In fact, one of the big "pros" for them this season is that they were supposed to be really good at catching the ball out of the backfield. I think this whole "Lee/Williams can't pass block and/or catch" thing is just our fans trying to find some justification for why they aren't seeing the field instead of pinning the blame on the source. Because based on all actual evidence, they do well enough with the "secondary" aspects of being a RB that they should be playing considering Shump's complete suckage.

[Behrdawg]

aGAIN, where is this coming from? In actual game action, and from what observers at practice say, Lee and Williams are fine in the pass blocking department. And they were both used extensively in the passing game in the spring. In fact, one of the big "pros" for them this season is that they were supposed to be really good at catching the ball out of the backfield. I think this whole "Lee/Williams can't pass block and/or catch" thing is just our fans trying to find some justification for why they aren't seeing the field instead of pinning the blame on the source. Because based on all actual evidence, they do well enough with the "secondary" aspects of being a RB that they should be playing considering Shump's complete suckage.

Good post. One of the biggest problems is CDMs loyalty to the upper classman over the younger guys. Call me crazy- but it's true.

[War Machine Dawg]

Good post. One of the biggest problems is CDMs loyalty to the upper classman over the younger guys. Call me crazy- but it's true.

I'll even illustrate the point. Go back and watch Lee's first two plays against NW ST. It was during the first half. First play he's in, he picks up the blitzing LB and buys Dak time to hit Fred Brown for a 40+ yard gain.

His second play was the Dak "fumble." On that play, he was lined up to Dak's right, but moved to Dak's left to pick up a blitzer that Desper had whiffed on blocking. If Dak doesn't run into his protection, he saves Dak from a sure sack with that play. He did everything right on those two plays and showed really good field awareness and knowledge of the scheme with the second play in particular. Yet somehow we're supposed to believe he & Williams can't pass block or don't know the playbook. Those two plays, at least in Lee's case, tell me a far different story.

[Todd4State]

You're making my point for me. We're talking about 5 carries.

And Dan made my point by not playing him because he missed curfew despite DOUBLE the production.

[Todd4State]

I'll even illustrate the point. Go back and watch Lee's first two plays against NW ST. It was during the first half. First play he's in, he picks up the blitzing LB and buys Dak time to hit Fred Brown for a 40+ yard gain.

His second play was the Dak "fumble." On that play, he was lined up to Dak's right, but moved to Dak's left to pick up a blitzer that Desper had whiffed on blocking. If Dak doesn't run into his protection, he saves Dak from a sure sack with that play. He did everything right on those two plays and showed really good field awareness and knowledge of the scheme with the second play in particular. Yet somehow we're supposed to believe he & Williams can't pass block or don't know the playbook. Those two plays, at least in Lee's case, tell me a far different story.

Exactly. There has been zero indication that Lee and Williams don't know the playbook when they have actually played. I would imagine that if a player really didn't know the playbook- it would be pretty obvious to everyone in the stands. And hell- even if they didn't know the playbook, it's not like they aren't standing right next to the QB who is usually Dak in the formation. "Hey Lee- follow Desper."

When you get down to it- it's all a bunch of BS.

[FISHDAWG]

It's just Mullen doing what Mullen does. Senior players get the reps. Any reason he gives is just to keep the fans/critics quiet.

I think it all goes back to the way he recruits and his overall philosphy. He seems to have a hard time not playing the guys that have put in a whole lot of work for 2 or 3 years because his system is: you put in the work and I'll play you.

Also, probably just a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in. I don't think he can stand being wrong about a player's potential.

^^^ spot on right here ... another issue that hasn't been talked about is the probability that Shump gets the lions share of the carries next year as well just because of this mentality.... I will be the first to say that I / we don't know all the facts that go into Dans decision .... but we do see evidence that allows us to form opinions and that is why this discussion keeps going ... the evidence that we see says it's time to try something else and then when things remain the same we are left with no explanation .... we need an explanation or a change or at the very least a promise to run the ball better next year because it's going to be very frustrating watching this same approach next year

[maroonmania]

It's just Mullen doing what Mullen does. Senior players get the reps. Any reason he gives is just to keep the fans/critics quiet.

I think it all goes back to the way he recruits and his overall philosphy. He seems to have a hard time not playing the guys that have put in a whole lot of work for 2 or 3 years because his system is: you put in the work and I'll play you.

Also, probably just a little bit of arrogance sprinkled in. I don't think he can stand being wrong about a player's potential.

Its just Dan being Dan. No further example needed other than JRob who was one of the best running and pass catching combinations we've ever had in our backfield and he only really played 1 of the 4 years he was here due I guess to his attitude and "work ethic". Not surprising that the best offense we've had in our history was while he DID play and shouldn't have been that surprising that he left when he had the option. To Dan its pretty obvious that seniority, leadership, attitude, work ethic and discipline mean as much or more than talent and production. Can be very frustrating as a fan though when a non-productive player keeps getting reps because he has those other qualities that Dan wants in his program.