Back to the tackling issue - rewatched the game

[Irondawg]

So I went and watched the Hawk tackling videos and then watched some of last weeks game again.

The biggest thing that stood out to me is that we're simply "reaching" too much. Could be a combination of being out of position some, but just appears we aren't driving the shoulders into the hip very well or doing the drive for 5 as they say on teh videos. It's like we slow down and dive and feet instead of driving into the hip/pec as they show in the video.

Anybody else notice that?

Could be a sign that the players are still "thinking" about the technique which means they slow themselve down as they perform it.

Furthermore when you talk about lack of turnovers, this tackling style isn't going to cause a lot of fumbles. I saw nobody attempting to strip the ball, which had been something we did a lot of recently. Combine that with the fact that the only secondary players that has demonstrated any kind of ball skills so far is Redmond and I don't expect us to create a lot of TO's.

[smootness]

A defense's ability to 'create turnovers' is a real thing, but it is usually minimal; turnovers are mostly based around luck.

If you play a team with a QB who makes good decisions and RBs/WRs who protect the ball well, you're unlikely to force turnovers no matter what you do. If you play a team with a QB who makes some bad decisions and RBs/WRs who are careless with the ball, you're likely to end up with some turnovers.

Tackling technique shouldn't tangibly affect your ability to create turnovers. In fact, I would much rather focus on a tackling strategy that consistently, effectively brings ball-carriers to the ground quickly than one that may force a fumble here and there but is more likely to allow a ball-carrier to stay on his feet. I've seen us, and most teams, miss plenty of tackles in the past while a defender simply tries to rip the ball out. I don't particularly like the 'stand them up, rip the ball out' strategy. I don't want my defensive players ever thinking, 'Let me get to this guy and try to hold him upright.'

Hawk tackling is a good strategy, we just have to execute it correctly. We haven't done that so far this year.

[thf24]

A defense's ability to 'create turnovers' is a real thing, but it is usually minimal; turnovers are mostly based around luck.

If you play a team with a QB who makes good decisions and RBs/WRs who protect the ball well, you're unlikely to force turnovers no matter what you do. If you play a team with a QB who makes some bad decisions and RBs/WRs who are careless with the ball, you're likely to end up with some turnovers.

Tackling technique shouldn't tangibly affect your ability to create turnovers. In fact, I would much rather focus on a tackling strategy that consistently, effectively brings ball-carriers to the ground quickly than one that may force a fumble here and there but is more likely to allow a ball-carrier to stay on his feet. I've seen us, and most teams, miss plenty of tackles in the past while a defender simply tries to rip the ball out. I don't particularly like the 'stand them up, rip the ball out' strategy. I don't want my defensive players ever thinking, 'Let me get to this guy and try to hold him upright.'

Hawk tackling is a good strategy, we just have to execute it correctly. We haven't done that so far this year.

Completely agreed. No matter how aggressive and talented a defense is, if the offense plays even close to mistake-free, then turnovers are going to come down to luck. No defense can go out and "force" turnovers at will in every single game they play against comparable opponents.

[Irondawg]

I agree and I'm not promoting ripping the ball because as you say it results in some mixed tackles, but I have to think ripping produces more fumbles so it's a risk reward.

While I was watching the replay I was focusing on the application of the Hawk technique and just happened to notice the lack of stripping effort, mainly because under collins we did it a lot.

[Political Hack]

Since 2011 the Seahawks have been a top 5 team consistently in the NFL in the number of forced fumbles. The technique actually creates more turnovers IMO because you have the chance to swipe the ball and strip it. It's usually not a "helmet on the ball" that cause a fumble. It's usually a hand, a swiping arm, or a strip. All of which you can do when Hawk Tackling. Not to mention its safer for our players.

[Barking 13]

Since 2011 the Seahawks have been a top 5 team consistently in the NFL in the number of forced fumbles. The technique actually creates more turnovers IMO because you have the chance to swipe the ball and strip it. It's usually not a "helmet on the ball" that cause a fumble. It's usually a hand, a swiping arm, or a strip. All of which you can do when Hawk Tackling. Not to mention its safer for our players.

I haven't watched the video, but it seemed to me that the technique that they are using is more of a swiping to loosen up the grip during an arm tackle vs. the rip & strip.. I'm not really a fan of either. I like the Tolando Clevland lower the boom loss of five method myself. That play gave me goosebumps.

ETA: I've also noticed a lot of turnovers occur when someone puts a helmet on the ball, but with today's "targeting" flag just waiting to happen, is it more of a gamble to do this or is it just a coincidence that it happens? Northern MS seems to do it to perfection.

[DownwardDawg]

Last years egg bowl and orange bowl showcased the worst tackling defense I've ever seen at State.

[drummerdawg]

In regards to forcing turnovers one thing I've noticed is that om puts a hat on the ball when going for the tackle, where as we put our head behind the ball carrier with the hawk tackling. To me our style results in arm tackles and I think it might even effect the vision of our tacklers in a negative way based on angles they have to take.

[MSUDawg99]

Last years egg bowl and orange bowl showcased the worst tackling defense I've ever seen at State.

KY game was bad too

[Political Hack]

I haven't watched the video, but it seemed to me that the technique that they are using is more of a swiping to loosen up the grip during an arm tackle vs. the rip & strip.. I'm not really a fan of either. I like the Tolando Clevland lower the boom loss of five method myself. That play gave me goosebumps.

ETA: I've also noticed a lot of turnovers occur when someone puts a helmet on the ball, but with today's "targeting" flag just waiting to happen, is it more of a gamble to do this or is it just a coincidence that it happens? Northern MS seems to do it to perfection.

think about the logistics of hitting someone from the side. head on tackling doesn't really come into play when discussing the strip/forced fumble issue. It's hits from the side that can create forced fumbles. If you hawk tackle someone, your head is behind their back when you hit them. Your arm goes to the front. You have some length and power to use to get to the ball and rip, swipe, or poke it. Coming from the side, if your head is to the front, your power arm is in the back of the runner away from the ball. You'd essentially be gremlin ripping at that point with a little short coiled up arm and have no weight to leverage in ripping the ball out even if you do manage to get your hands on the ball and extend your elbow (unlikely).

The rip and strips will come with this tackling from the side. It works in the NFL and it'll work in the SEC once we start to execute it correctly. Lately we just haven't kept our feet when going in for tackles. We're also not using our hands very well at times to disengage from blockers. Torrey Dale who was a natural at this in high school looks like he's gotten worse at in college. I don't get that at all. Maybe a position change did it to him, but he may as well be chest bumping the guy blocking him. That has a million times more to do with tackling than our technique. One, we don't see the play develop or the runner. Two, we can't disengage to make the tackle even if we do see him.

[Irondawg]

We are certainly having problems getting off blocks. I noticed that was a common theme.

The thing with the Hawk stuff I saw was they focus on wrapping. I didn't see any swiping at the ball action so it surprised me the Hawks were leaders in forced fumbles. I'll have to go look at it a little more.

Regardless we're not getting our shoulder to the hips of the ball carriers and that's why i think we're missing so much. No is that pure technique fail, or just a result of not getting good position i don't know.

[Jarius]

Usually really good defenses force more turnovers. It isn't based on luck. When you have a lot of people swarming to the ball and people that knock offensive players dick in the dirt, the other team plays differently on offense. More apt to throw the ball quicker, happy feet, alligator arms, etc.

[Barking 13]

I haven't watched the video, but it seemed to me that the technique that they are using is more of a swiping to loosen up the grip during an arm tackle vs. the rip & strip.. I'm not really a fan of either. I like the Tolando Clevland lower the boom loss of five method myself. That play gave me goosebumps.

ETA: I've also noticed a lot of turnovers occur when someone puts a helmet on the ball, but with today's "targeting" flag just waiting to happen, is it more of a gamble to do this or is it just a coincidence that it happens? Northern MS seems to do it to perfection.

my apologies to Taveze Calhoun..