The slot

[msstate7]

With our inability to run at times, should we consider moving Ross out wide and get Myles/dear in the slot? Myles and dear give us more of a run threat IMO. I think having Ross, bear, and Myles/dear on the field at the same time is our most dangerous lineup. Where am I wrong on this?

[smootness]

I wouldn't mind this, but I'd rather just put Gray out wide and have him start.

[archdog]

I am for whatever gets the ball into Gabe Myles hands. That guy could be a baller. Reminds me of Randall Cobb. Just gets up field in a hurry.

[CadaverDawg]

I wouldn't mind this, but I'd rather just put Gray out wide and have him start.

This^

Put Gray in Brown's starting spot, and start Dear at RB. Dak, Dear, Wilson, Ross, Gray on the field at the same time plus a TE like Walley/Johnson....that's a lot of playmakers. Rotate Lee in for Dear when we want to pound on folks.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

This^

Put Gray in Brown's starting spot, and start Dear at RB. Dak, Dear, Wilson, Ross, Gray on the field at the same time plus a TE like Walley/Johnson....that's a lot of playmakers. Rotate Lee in for Dear when we want to pound on folks.

Dear hasn't played 1 play of RB though.

[CadaverDawg]

Dear hasn't played 1 play of RB though.

Yes he has. We handed off to him Saturday when he came in motion and set by Dak. That may be considered WR since he started wide, but he took the handoff and has taken handoffs at RB since he was in Junior High. RB is his natural position. He just has great hands to go with it. But if for some reason he's incapable of playing RB, use Lee at RB.

Not in response to you, ifyouonlyknew....

I'm getting tired of seeing our playmakers on the sideline Bc they aren't labeled something, or for some technicality. Gray needs to be starting in place of Brown, and Dear needs to be on the field more. Dear As a RB would be the best way for us to get our best playmakers on the field at the same time.

I totally get the "they need to be ready, and understand their role" stuff...but I'm starting to grow tired of seeing our playmakers take so long to see the field.

You're telling me Gray doesn't know the playbook enough, and Dear hasn't played RB officially so he can't play RB....yet Robert Knemdiche can take handoffs and catch passes out of the backfield while focusing on being a DT? Why can't we create 10 plays for Dear and Gray to focus on, and let them loose? Or better yet, if our scheme and playbook is that damn complicated, why do we look so bland on offense against USM and LSU? If we have the most difficult playbook and scheme in the SEC, we should be accomishing more with it. Otherwise, dial that shit back and put some playmakers on the field. We could have the best playbook in the country, but if Shumpert is touching the ball 15 times per game, we won't do much with those great plays. Get the damn talent on the field! (Maybe not at Safety, Bc that is last line of defense...but on O)

Do you guys realize that Gray could technically go pro after next season. I'm not saying he will, but if he's that kind of talent, it would be a shame to only have him make an impact for one season Bc "he didn't know the playbook well enough". That's bullshit is what it is.

End rant.

I think guys need to be ready, but we can find ways to get them involved without them being 5th year Seniors in playbook knowledge. Especially on offense. I'm totally fine with us not throwing defensive players out there that aren't totally ready, Bc that can lose you a ballgame.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Dear played more wildcat & slot than pure RB.

[smootness]

Gray could actually technically go pro after this season.

I do think there's generally less concern over offensive playmakers playing 'before they're ready'. On defense, if one guy messes up his assignment, it's a TD. On offense, if one guy messes up his assignment, it can sometimes lead to turnovers; but more often it just leads to the lack of a positive play and you go try again. And it's also easier to make plays despite not everyone doing their job on offense than it is on defense. If the slot WR doesn't run the correct route with the correct timing, there's still a chance for somebody else to make a play.

So having said that, I'm mostly ok with our defensive personnel. I do want to see more of Gerri Green, simply because he's going to be really good sooner than later. And I want to see us gradually start to get the young safeties more and more playing time, as they learn the system.

But on offense, I would like to see more of Lee and Williams at RB. And I would like to see more of Dear and Gray.

[CadaverDawg]

Dear played more wildcat & slot than pure RB.

Well he's a great pass catcher, but to best utilize him, he needs to play RB/Slot...not just slot. He's not a pure WR. It's like Josh Robinson lined up at slot. Could he do it? Yes....but why would we want to limit him to only catching passes and taking jet sweeps. Ya know? He has tons of experience at RB is all I'm saying.

[CadaverDawg]

Gray could actually technically go pro after this season.

I do think there's generally less concern over offensive playmakers playing 'before they're ready'. On defense, if one guy messes up his assignment, it's a TD. On offense, if one guy messes up his assignment, it can sometimes lead to turnovers; but more often it just leads to the lack of a positive play and you go try again. And it's also easier to make plays despite not everyone doing their job on offense than it is on defense. If the slot WR doesn't run the correct route with the correct timing, there's still a chance for somebody else to make a play.

So having said that, I'm mostly ok with our defensive personnel. I do want to see more of Gerri Green, simply because he's going to be really good sooner than later. And I want to see us gradually start to get the young safeties more and more playing time, as they learn the system.

But on offense, I would like to see more of Lee and Williams at RB. And I would like to see more of Dear and Gray.

I agree

[msstate7]

We can get dear and Myles plenty of carries without them being rb's. Myles/dear need to get wr screens, jet sweeps, and an option play every game. By doing this it will open up the middle of a defense for Dak and our rb's

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Well he's a great pass catcher, but to best utilize him, he needs to play RB/Slot...not just slot. He's not a pure WR. It's like Josh Robinson lined up at slot. Could he do it? Yes....but why would we want to limit him to only catching passes and taking jet sweeps. Ya know? He has tons of experience at RB is all I'm saying.

I never said he couldn't. I said he's played slot WR/wildcat QB his whole career. I've always said he fits the Percy Harvin role. Playing RB, slot WR, & out the wildcat.

http://youtu.be/TFjWoBC5g5A

http://youtu.be/W2mZn6w8zAY

[CadaverDawg]

I never said he couldn't. I said he's played slot WR/wildcat QB his whole life.

Maybe his Senior year, but he's played running back at Murrah. I watched him. Either way, Murrah never threw the ball around a lot, so he was playing RB, whether he lined up as a true RB or not, you get it.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Maybe his Senior year, but he's played running back at Murrah. I watched him. Either way, Murrah never threw the ball around a lot, so he was playing RB, whether he lined up as a true RB or not, you get it.

Yea I get it & linked 2 of his tapes from 2 separate years. It's not a big deal to go back & forth but Dear is a kid that needs to put in a lot of different spots not just 1. Again like I said earlier I like him in the Harvin role.

[Todd4State]

I would like to see Bear line up in the slot some. When he has, he has been pretty much uncoverable. (I know not a word)

Gray should definitely play more- but it's not like Fred Brown has been bad or anything. He actually has a higher average per reception right now than Bear. I think Gray will end up in the slot before his career is over once he masters the offense and then can work on the option routes which require a lot of communication. Good luck to any safety and LB that gets to try to cover Gray.

Gabe Myles really impressed me more than any one in terms of improvement. He showed me that he could be used as a deep threat which was my question about him going into the season. He also should play more even though Ross has been good.

Dear is different than anyone we have ever really had at MSU. We have him listed as a slot- but I see him more of as an ATH. He is more like Percy Harvin in terms of position rather than a guy like Wes Welker or Reggie Wayne who is just a slot WR guy. I like him in the slot some- but I also like how we motioned him into the backfield and used him as a RB. He can function as both a slot WR and a RB essentially and I think that's we should use him. I've seen some people compare Dear to Robinson and I think that is a fairly good comparison- even though we didn't really use Robinson that way we probably could have. To me, the difference between Robinson and Dear is Dear is better at WR than Josh would have been but Josh is better than Dear would be at RB.

[msstate7]

Yea I get it & linked 2 of his tapes from 2 separate years. It's not a big deal to go back & forth but Dear is a kid that needs to put in a lot of different spots not just 1. Again like I said earlier I like him in the Harvin role.

With Myles and dear's versatility, doesn't it make sense to get them more plays from the slot? Certainly not knocking Ross, but he seems less versatile.

[Todd4State]

We can get dear and Myles plenty of carries without them being rb's. Myles/dear need to get wr screens, jet sweeps, and an option play every game. By doing this it will open up the middle of a defense for Dak and our rb's

I did like how we added different option looks than the ones we've been using over and over and over that everyone knows we are going to run. Why we don't run more screens is beyond me. Myles was really good in the screen game last year. I would add the pop pass to the arsenal until the refs start to call ineligible man downfield penalties.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

With Myles and dear's versatility, doesn't it make sense to get them more plays from the slot? Certainly not knocking Ross, but he seems less versatile.

They're more versatile but I think Ross is the better WR.

[CadaverDawg]

Exactly. He knows what to do with the ball in his hands, yet he's on the sidelines while we give it to Shumpert 10+ times per game. Makes no sense. And I like Shumpert. bottom line, I just want us to try and get the ball in our playmakers hands more...and Shumpert just isn't a playmaker. Why limit the offense when you don't have to? Run Dak more, run Dear more, run Myles more, get the ball to Ross in space, throw an occasional deep ball to DeRunnya instead of the same "box out" pass we always run with him, just unleash the talent. And quit giving the ball to a guy that basically has no chance of gashing the defense.

[Todd4State]

With Myles and dear's versatility, doesn't it make sense to get them more plays from the slot? Certainly not knocking Ross, but he seems less versatile.

I think Ross would be fine on a jet sweep. It's just a matter of actually giving him the ball on a jet sweep.

My gripe with Ross right now is dropped passes. I think some of that is from screwing up in the PR game and then taking that out to the field with him IMO.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Exactly. He knows what to do with the ball in his hands, yet he's on the sidelines while we give it to Shumpert 10+ times per game. Makes no sense. And I like Shumpert. bottom line, I just want us to try and get the ball in our playmakers hands more...and Shumpert just isn't a playmaker. Why limit the offense when you don't have to? Run Dak more, run Dear more, run Myles more, get the ball to Ross in space, throw an occasional deep ball to DeRunnya instead of the same "box out" pass we always run with him, just unleash the talent. And quit giving the ball to a guy that basically has no chance of hashing the defense.

I think you will see more balance & spreading the ball around as the year goes on.

[CadaverDawg]

I did like how we added different option looks than the ones we've been using over and over and over that everyone knows we are going to run. Why we don't run more screens is beyond me. Myles was really good in the screen game last year. I would add the pop pass to the arsenal until the refs start to call ineligible man downfield penalties.


I liked them too...my question is, why do we only run the creative stuff against the NW St's of the World? We need to see more of what we saw playbook wise Saturday, and less of Shump being pounded into the back of the O-Linemen. I know the LSU D has a lot to do with the lack of holes...but they have zero to do with which player we give the ball too...or they shouldn't.

[CadaverDawg]

I think you will see more balance & spreading the ball around as the year goes on.

I hope so. But we are already 1 game too late. We blew that LSU game by starting so poorly. Very bland play calling, and Too much Shumpert. We needed to start strong and Dan kinda shit the bed. I guess I'm just still a little ticked about the way our offense has performed early in big games since last season. You can't start slow against Bama, OM, LSU, etc, and expect to win. Especially when we clearly know the talent and creativity is there.

[Todd4State]

Exactly. He knows what to do with the ball in his hands, yet he's on the sidelines while we give it to Shumpert 10+ times per game. Makes no sense. And I like Shumpert. bottom line, I just want us to try and get the ball in our playmakers hands more...and Shumpert just isn't a playmaker. Why limit the offense when you don't have to? Run Dak more, run Dear more, run Myles more, get the ball to Ross in space, throw an occasional deep ball to DeRunnya instead of the same "box out" pass we always run with him, just unleash the talent. And quit giving the ball to a guy that basically has no chance of hashing the defense.

I like Shumpert too. But it's how we use him. He would he hell at FB because he can catch the ball out of the backfield and he can run it some pretty consistently for a few yards. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it in the NFL as a FB and has a nice career doing it.

But what you are saying is what I have been saying pretty much the whole time. I don't know if it is trust issues with Dan or if he is in a rut as far as play calling and creativity- that probably happens to every coach to a degree. We could/should be a lot better than what we are right now because we limit ourselves. I think Auburn will tell us if Dan is going to implement some of the changes we want to see- I was pleasantly surprised to see some against Northwestern State and that was encouraging, but it was also a vastly inferior opponent and Dan is more aggressive against them. I HOPE Dan plays these play makers more. At the very least I suspect we will see Dak run more which will be good.

[CadaverDawg]

I think Ross would be fine on a jet sweep. It's just a matter of actually giving him the ball on a jet sweep.

My gripe with Ross right now is dropped passes. I think some of that is from screwing up in the PR game and then taking that out to the field with him IMO.

I think he's just trying to look up field too quick to make a big play. Looks to me that he has taken his eye off to prepare to run after the catch. He'll be fine. Dude is our biggest playmaker right now not named Dak IMO.

[Todd4State]

I liked them too...my question is, why do we only run the creative stuff against the NW St's of the World? We need to see more of what we saw playbook wise Saturday, and less of Shump being pounded into the back of the O-Linemen. I know the LSU D has a lot to do with the lack of holes...but they have zero to do with which player we give the ball too...or they shouldn't.

I think Dan is a little bit like Cohen. He needs vastly inferior opponents to see everyone and see what we actually have. We got that opportunity last year starting out with USM, UAB, and then South Alabama before LSU. This year we got a much better USM team on the road (who won last night BTW) in their Super Bowl going all out Boise State against us and then we had LSU.

People harp on practice but the reality is you can only tell so much going up against yourself or the scout team. A real live opponent in a gameday situation is the real test.

[Todd4State]

I think he's just trying to look up field too quick to make a big play. Looks to me that he has taken his eye off to prepare to run after the catch. He'll be fine. Dude is our biggest playmaker right now not named Dak IMO.

I would argue that Bear is a bigger playmaker, but Ross does lead the team in receptions. Ross should still play, start or whatever- but he does need to get whatever the issue is fixed.

[bulldawg28]

Gray needs more action at the slot. Ross needs to go back outside he's underperformed at this point and we're going to need explosive plays to win games. I'd put Gray and MYLES together in the slot with Ross and Bear on the outside when we go 4 wide

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Question for no one in particular but please feel free to answer. Why do people want to put Gray in the slot when in Juco & yesterday he's shown amazing big play ability outside the #'s? Something that we haven't had consistently since Mullen has been here.

[msstate7]

Question for no one in particular but please feel free to answer. Why do people want to put Gray in the slot when in Juco & yesterday he's shown amazing big play ability outside the #'s? Something that we haven't had consistently since Mullen has been here.

Bc he's short.

If only everyone could see he's the next Steve smith. No pressure, Donald**

Oh and in case you haven't noticed, we state fans are always wanting to move players to new positions... We can't help it

[bulldawg28]

Question for no one in particular but please feel free to answer. Why do people want to put Gray in the slot when in Juco & yesterday he's shown amazing big play ability outside the #'s? Something that we haven't had consistently since Mullen has been here.

The slot gives him the entire field to work versus the outside limited routes. The most elusive WR should always be a slot guy imo to create a world of trouble for a defense. The slot is also an outlet for the Qb and Ross hasn't been very reliable thus far there. He's shown the surest hands in one game played. I just want him in the game. Dan Mullen is really screwing the pooch this year thus far with all of the talent he has this year from offense to defense.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

The slot gives him the entire field to work versus the outside limited routes. The most elusive WR should always be a slot guy imo to create a world of trouble for a defense. The slot is also an outlet for the Qb and Ross hasn't been very reliable thus far there. He's shown the surest hands in one game played. I just want him in the game. Dan Mullen is really screwing the pooch this year thus far with all of the talent he has this year from offense to defense.

We have guys that are capable in the slot IMO (Ross & Myles). I just think Gray offers us an element on the outside that we haven't had. I understand your point about being in the slot I just think having Gray on the outside makes our offense more complete & more dangerous.

ETA: Not to say Fred Brown hasn't been playing well out there. He's avg almost 20ypc as that deep threat opposite Bear.

[LC Dawg]

I agree with those that say we should play more of the new guys on offense because the risk is worth the potential reward. I don't understand those that say in multiple threads that we should play true freshmen at safety even if they are not ready because the risk is not that great. I'm no coach or expert so I can't say whether the freshmen are ready or not but I do know we would be taking a huge risk playing them if they are not ready.
Ole Miss scored on two long pass plays that really shouldn't have happened. If they don't get those two plays that shouldn't have happened they don't win the game. Busted coverage touchdowns are plays that shouldn't happen. Two busted coverages can lose a game. I don't think I would screw around and take chances against Malzahn and Sumlin.

[jumbo]

How about Myles at RB?

[BankerDog]

The thing is, our best 3 WRs (Brown, Ross, Wilson) are all the same type of WR. They can't seem to make people miss. So why are we trying to play the same type of WRs on the field at once? Myles and Gray should be playing. Gray had 4 targets, 4 receptions for 140 yards. The catch he had from Dak was one of the best I have ever seen; no way anyone else makes that catch. Myles played last year, but has been MIA this year. They can get behind people and make people miss. Dear, Lee, and Williams need to be getting carries instead of Shump. Shump isn't patient and doesn't set up his blocks well. If you can't see that, you're blind.

[BankerDog]

Question for no one in particular but please feel free to answer. Why do people want to put Gray in the slot when in Juco & yesterday he's shown amazing big play ability outside the #'s? Something that we haven't had consistently since Mullen has been here.


I do not care where he is lined up. He needs to play. We haven't had a WR with his type of playmaking ability in a long time. He needs to be on the field. Play your playmakers, Dan!

[Tripp McNeely]

I would like to see Bear line up in the slot some. When he has, he has been pretty much uncoverable. (I know not a word)

Gray should definitely play more- but it's not like Fred Brown has been bad or anything. He actually has a higher average per reception right now than Bear. I think Gray will end up in the slot before his career is over once he masters the offense and then can work on the option routes which require a lot of communication. Good luck to any safety and LB that gets to try to cover Gray.

Gabe Myles really impressed me more than any one in terms of improvement. He showed me that he could be used as a deep threat which was my question about him going into the season. He also should play more even though Ross has been good.

Dear is different than anyone we have ever really had at MSU. We have him listed as a slot- but I see him more of as an ATH. He is more like Percy Harvin in terms of position rather than a guy like Wes Welker or Reggie Wayne who is just a slot WR guy. I like him in the slot some- but I also like how we motioned him into the backfield and used him as a RB. He can function as both a slot WR and a RB essentially and I think that's we should use him. I've seen some people compare Dear to Robinson and I think that is a fairly good comparison- even though we didn't really use Robinson that way we probably could have. To me, the difference between Robinson and Dear is Dear is better at WR than Josh would have been but Josh is better than Dear would be at RB.

Thank goodness om didn't want Dear! ********

[bulldawg28]

We have guys that are capable in the slot IMO (Ross & Myles). I just think Gray offers us an element on the outside that we haven't had. I understand your point about being in the slot I just think having Gray on the outside makes our offense more complete & more dangerous.

ETA: Not to say Fred Brown hasn't been playing well out there. He's avg almost 20ypc as that deep threat opposite Bear.

I just want him to get in the game. .....MORE!!!