Dan on dak running

[Coach007]

It seems like we are going to have to get use to dak not running.

[PassInterference]

I am fine with Dak going through his progressions. But one of his progressions needs to be hey there is 20 yards of green grass in front of me.

[Coach007]

Per Dan there was 1 or 2 plays he could have BUT he has improved in going through his progressions.... So him not running isn't an issue.

[HSVDawg]

Whether or not Dak runs on designed passing plays isn't really the issue. Think back to last year. ALL of Dak's big runs were on called QB running plays such as the zone read, draw, even the option. Those are the plays we are missing the most right now, and the ones that do the most to also help open up the passing game. Dak is above average at improvising but he's never going to be Michael Vick or Johnny Manziel and be able to juke guys out for 70 yard TD's when nothing is open downfield. That is not his strength.

[mparkerfd20]

So does that answer a question from another thread on whether Dan is trying to do what's best for Dak's NFL future or what's best for the team?

[Coach007]

TD pass to Lewis vs LSU was due to him scramhling. His ability to get 5 yards on a passing play by pulling it down and running is being missed.

That's not to say that the read options etc are not being missed, because they are! We are very much so not running the offense we used last year. We are running a conservative play book with our qb.

[Mjoelner34]

Dear Dak and Dan, going through progressions is one thing but repeatedly throwing low percentage passes at the end of those reads when you have 20 yards wide open in front of you is not going to help your NFL chances.

[Smitty]

I am fine with Dak going through his progressions. But one of his progressions needs to be hey there is 20 yards of green grass in front of me.

Ding ding ding

Look at Russell Wilsons game Dak. Look at Blake Sims against us last year. When it's there TAKE IT, slide, and move on

[BossDawg]

Dear Dak and Dan, going through progressions is one thing but repeatedly throwing low percentage passes at the end of those reads when you have 20 yards wide open in front of you is not going to help your NFL chances.

Nor is it gonna put wins in the column for State, which should be their priority right now. Only at State....

[Coach007]

So does that answer a question from another thread on whether Dan is trying to do what's best for Dak's NFL future or what's best for the team?

I think him saying that he is going deeper into his progressions is in a since saying dak has taken another step forward as a qb. I think that also translate into him being a better qb for the NFL to consider. I think that's a trade off..... Its natural.

However, in our system...... I also think it hurts us.

[Beaver]

From what I saw in the 2nd half, it seems that Dak is close to being the whole package. It's obvious he's put more emphasis on reading defenses and going through progressions. When the pocket broke down, he stepped up and was looking downfield -- which is good. However, whenever he was close to being tackled or sacked, he turned into Peyton Manning and just through an uncatchable ball. He just needs to put his improvisation back into his game. You have to be impressed that he didn't throw any picks against that secondary with his back against the wall.

[Liverpooldawg]

Whether or not Dak runs on designed passing plays isn't really the issue. Think back to last year. ALL of Dak's big runs were on called QB running plays such as the zone read, draw, even the option. Those are the plays we are missing the most right now, and the ones that do the most to also help open up the passing game. Dak is above average at improvising but he's never going to be Michael Vick or Johnny Manziel and be able to juke guys out for 70 yard TD's when nothing is open downfield. That is not his strength.

When we tried the designed runs they invariably got stuffed, mostly because the blocking wasn't there. It all goes back to the line.

[Coach007]

@ Liverpool.. Not exactly true. A designed qb run up the middle isn't what we are talking about. Go back to the first series vs LSU last year.look at the 2 designed roll outs.. The play where we put lewis in motion, ran the opposite direction and threw back to Lewis on a screen.

We are conservative..... And its predictable at this point. The plays I'm talking about actually help a weaker ol.

[HSVDawg]

So does that answer a question from another thread on whether Dan is trying to do what's best for Dak's NFL future or what's best for the team?

It doesn't have to be an either / or scenario. Dak getting better at going through progressions is better for both his NFL prospects and the team. Not that complicated. Here's two examples. There were plays in last years LSU and Arkansas games where each time Dak could have easily taken off for 20 to 25 yard gains. Instead, he hits Jameon for a wide open 70 yard TD against LSU and hits Fred Ross for a wide open 60 yard TD against Arkansas. By the way, we very may well have lost both of those games without those two plays. I'm certainly fine with him taking off in open space when he doesn't see anything downfield, but it shouldn't necessarily be his first option. He's proven far more adept at making plays with his arm after extending plays with his feet than he has by scrambling when nobody is open initially.

[Sacrifice]

Dak's gonna have to get better throwing the deep ball if he wants to succeed in the NFL. Fred Brown has been consistently getting open deep over the last 2 seasons but Dak can't put the ball on him. His short to medium passes are fine.

[DancingRabbit]

I think once LSU went up 21-6 midway of the 3rd quarter we had to pretty much abandon the run and take what they were giving us, which was the short/mid-range passes.

Dak was able to run for a 3rd down conversion and the one TD, but LSU was determined that Dak wasn't going to beat them with his feet. The O-line was decent in pass protection but couldn't get it done in the run game.

We need to loosen up the opponent's defense early with jet sweeps, screens and short passes and then some holes will start to open up inside.

A lot of times you run to set up the pass, but sometimes you have to pass to set up the run.

[HSVDawg]

I think once LSU went up 21-6 midway of the 3rd quarter we had to pretty much abandon the run and take what they were giving us, which was the short/mid-range passes.

Dak was able to run for a 3rd down conversion and the one TD, but LSU was determined that Dak wasn't going to beat them with his feet. The O-line was decent in pass protection but couldn't get it done in the run game.

We need to loosen up the opponent's defense early with jet sweeps, screens and short passes and then some holes will start to open up inside.

A lot of times you run to set up the pass, but sometimes you have to pass to set up the run.

I agree with all of this. The whole argument about whether we should run to set up the pass or pass to set up the run is stupid. A truly great offense has got to be able to do both.

[basedog]

From what I saw in the 2nd half, it seems that Dak is close to being the whole package. It's obvious he's put more emphasis on reading defenses and going through progressions. When the pocket broke down, he stepped up and was looking downfield -- which is good. However, whenever he was close to being tackled or sacked, he turned into Peyton Manning and just through an uncatchable ball. He just needs to put his improvisation back into his game. You have to be impressed that he didn't throw any picks against that secondary with his back against the wall.

You are spot on. Folks were yelling that Dak is off with his throws, mostly the receiver wasn't open and he was throwing it away. So many folks don't see what he was doing and blaming his misfire. Yes he missed a few throws, but our best offense is getting the ball to our wideouts, our second best option is Dak running the read option, but if we can't get a better push from our OL and if our running backs don't step up, Dak has no room to run. All teams know to keep outside containment and have someone zero in on Dak.

You haters better get use to this kind of offense for the rest of the season, I do think we will see a few more read options. After reading so much moan and groan and even from folks who usually have a little more knowledge on football have written some head scratching things. We lost on one play, you can point to about 8 or 9 plays, not just the handling of the clock management which was bad. To have the come back we had is a lot more encouraging than getting our butt handed to us like in the first quarter.

Finally I have several Lsu buddies who think we will win 8 games, we shall see as our OL should get better after playing a few games together now, we did lose 3 senior starters and it shows right now.

[Hypnodawg]

We are a 6 win team unless we get substantially better.

[Maroonthirteen]

Liverpool is right. Look at the play by play.

We tried to run the ball early. On the 2nd series, we rushed every play, 3 and out. Dak was stuffed on a QB run on 3rd and long. The 3rd series penalty puts us behind the chains. Hollaway had a nice gainer but according to some here....he shouldn't run the ball.

Anyway, we are down 14-0 at that point. We had go start to throwing to catch up. Our only 2 1st downs at that point were from throwing.

[BulldogBear]

So does that answer a question from another thread on whether Dan is trying to do what's best for Dak's NFL future or what's best for the team?

No but it does answer the question on whether or not we will win the big games and that answer looks like No.

[tcdog70]

No but it does answer the question on whether or not we will win the big games and that answer looks like No.

Damn, was this not a big game? The fact that we had a chance to win was because we quit running and started throwing. The reason we lost is because Dan went brain dead and our Kicker missed not because we couldn't run. If the Defense takes away the run then you must pass. We have a QB that will allow us to do this. When we can run we will RUN. Dak threw for 63% the second half with no turnovers--that will allow you to win.

would you rather hand it off to Shump and get stuffed or throw it to Bear with man coverage. No Brainer

[starkvegasdawg]

would you rather hand it off to Shump and get stuffed or throw it to Bear with man coverage. No Brainer

I'd rather hand it off to Lee and see what he can do. My hope is that maybe if Dak keeps being effective in the passing game it will open up the run. I know normally you run to set up the pass, but with everybody expecting us to run it may be the opposite with us.

[Coach007]

Liverpool is right. Look at the play by play.

We tried to run the ball early. On the 2nd series, we rushed every play, 3 and out. Dak was stuffed on a QB run on 3rd and long. The 3rd series penalty puts us behind the chains. Hollaway had a nice gainer but according to some here....he shouldn't run the ball.

Anyway, we are down 14-0 at that point. We had go start to throwing to catch up. Our only 2 1st downs at that point were from throwing.

But a run is not a run.... Lol. The design of the rushing play is the issue. Play by play doesn't tell you what those designs are. You need to watch the first series of this year, and the first series ofnlast year. That is the only way to understand what's being talked about.

[Coach007]

Damn, was this not a big game? The fact that we had a chance to win was because we quit running and started throwing. The reason we lost is because Dan went brain dead and our Kicker missed not because we couldn't run. If the Defense takes away the run then you must pass. We have a QB that will allow us to do this. When we can run we will RUN. Dak threw for 63% the second half with no turnovers--that will allow you to win.

would you rather hand it off to Shump and get stuffed or throw it to Bear with man coverage. No Brainer

That's not even the issue. Its the type of plays we are using. I'm not sure why people are not getting that.

[3dawgnight15]

A zone read is not a zone read if there is no threat in your QB pulling the ball to take off. I don't care if he scrambles or stays in the pocket but when you run the zone read you must be prepared to pull the damn ball

[Ralph]

At what point do the coaches realize the fans are doing exactly what they asked of us which is to show up for 4 quarters and and be loud. When do they put the product on the field we as paying fans want to see?

[archdog]

Can we try to use a mobile QB to our advantage, just a little? If we are not going to use the read option, put a full back in there and let's do some power sets. At least then Dak can use play action on deep throws, naked boot legs, etc. Through the first 1.5 games I saw nothing that has lived up to any type of hype. No creativity, no run pass options on a roll out. We need to put defenses under pressue. Heck we ran the option sweep twice and went to the shovel pass twice last week. We need to attack the defense. Right now it looks like we are going through the motions.

Now granted, we did start throwing the ball based on quicker routes and that changed the entire game Saturday night. We have to mix in quick passes to the edges, quick runs up the middle, runs to the outside etc. Something that helps our Oline get an edge.

[BB30]

We could have ran the read option 100 times against LSU Saturday and would not have had any success. I was actually impressed that we adjusted so well in the second half and had a chance to win the ballgame. Our game plan excelled last year against them because they were not ready to defend Dak and Josh. They had no idea our o-line was as talented as it was and that we had an NFL running back. This year was a completely different story they knew exactly what we had and have had a whole year to prepare for this one game. Last year they had Wisconsin to open up and couldn't prepare for us as long. Our o-line is not where it was vs LSU last year and our running backs aren't there yet either. If you think we could have lined up and ran the exact same plays and had the exact same game plan as last year and won that is a little irrational.

[I seen it dawg]

Bullshit. We hardly ran the read option. We ran mostly handoffs.

[fishwater99]

It doesn't have to be an either / or scenario. Dak getting better at going through progressions is better for both his NFL prospects and the team. Not that complicated. Here's two examples. There were plays in last years LSU and Arkansas games where each time Dak could have easily taken off for 20 to 25 yard gains. Instead, he hits Jameon for a wide open 70 yard TD against LSU and hits Fred Ross for a wide open 60 yard TD against Arkansas. By the way, we very may well have lost both of those games without those two plays. I'm certainly fine with him taking off in open space when he doesn't see anything downfield, but it shouldn't necessarily be his first option. He's proven far more adept at making plays with his arm after extending plays with his feet than he has by scrambling when nobody is open initially.

So far this year Dak is not doing this, he wants to force the pass instead of taking the easy yards on the run.

[fishwater99]

Can we try to use a mobile QB to our advantage, just a little? If we are not going to use the read option, put a full back in there and let's do some power sets. At least then Dak can use play action on deep throws, naked boot legs, etc. Through the first 1.5 games I saw nothing that has lived up to any type of hype. No creativity, no run pass options on a roll out. We need to put defenses under pressue. Heck we ran the option sweep twice and went to the shovel pass twice last week. We need to attack the defense. Right now it looks like we are going through the motions.

Now granted, we did start throwing the ball based on quicker routes and that changed the entire game Saturday night. We have to mix in quick passes to the edges, quick runs up the middle, runs to the outside etc. Something that helps our Oline get an edge.

Works for me, but Dan doesn't like to use a FB. I think we need to this year if we want to run the ball effectively.

Shump at FB

Lee, Williams or Holloway at TB

[BB30]

mostly hand offs? you do realize most of those "hand offs" were read plays. Its not just oh lets read the DE if he crashes I take off TD Dak Prescott. I don't know how to make it any more clear that LSU took away the read on the option. They were not going to let Dak beat them with his legs and if he did keep it they were going to punish him, that was their game plan and it worked the entire first qtr. The exact same thing Bama and OM did. You can say oh dak had 80 yds or so vs both of those teams but he only averaged like 2.9 and 3.6 yds per carry against them(rather pedestrian). Which resulted in a loss. Against bama we made the adjustment and started hitting quick routes just like this past saturday and got back into the game. If you want to see a positive from our style of play it is that Dak is going to take up a defender or two that spy him thus taking a defender out of the passing game.

[I seen it dawg]

mostly hand offs? you do realize most of those "hand offs" were read plays. Its not just oh lets read the DE if he crashes I take off TD Dak Prescott. I don't know how to make it any more clear that LSU took away the read on the option. They were not going to let Dak beat them with his legs and if he did keep it they were going to punish him, that was their game plan and it worked the entire first qtr. The exact same thing Bama and OM did. You can say oh dak had 80 yds or so vs both of those teams but he only averaged like 2.9 and 3.6 yds per carry against them(rather pedestrian). Which resulted in a loss. Against bama we made the adjustment and started hitting quick routes just like this past saturday and got back into the game. If you want to see a positive from our style of play it is that Dak is going to take up a defender or two that spy him thus taking a defender out of the passing game.

I know exactly how it went. It wasn't hard to see from end zone view. They crashed and never respected Dak to run. It's been hashed for 2 days. You're late to the party. And wrong on this point.

[I seen it dawg]

mostly hand offs? you do realize most of those "hand offs" were read plays. Its not just oh lets read the DE if he crashes I take off TD Dak Prescott. I don't know how to make it any more clear that LSU took away the read on the option. They were not going to let Dak beat them with his legs and if he did keep it they were going to punish him, that was their game plan and it worked the entire first qtr. The exact same thing Bama and OM did. You can say oh dak had 80 yds or so vs both of those teams but he only averaged like 2.9 and 3.6 yds per carry against them(rather pedestrian). Which resulted in a loss. Against bama we made the adjustment and started hitting quick routes just like this past saturday and got back into the game. If you want to see a positive from our style of play it is that Dak is going to take up a defender or two that spy him thus taking a defender out of the passing game.


And another thing....versus OM Bama and Saturday our per first half play calling and offensive game plan was absolute dogshit. LSU didn't take away shit because we never pressed them on the read.

[BB30]

A qb read is not just the de crashing or staying at home there is invariably another reason dak gave the ball off could be lbs or secondary walked up/slanted, d line alignment etc. If you think dak chose to have a negative play by handing the ball off instead of keeping it and gaining yds then I have no idea what you are thinking... As for game planning for the other two games last year again you apparently don't assume that the defensive scheme had anything to do with play calling or what would/ wouldn't work. I seen it maybe you should go into coaching since you have a bullet proof offensive gameplan that is far superior to any defensive scheme or adjustment made over a season.

[Schultzy]

We could have run...

Not ran...

if not for the delay of game...

and kicked it...

successfully

[Coach007]

mostly hand offs? you do realize most of those "hand offs" were read plays. Its not just oh lets read the DE if he crashes I take off TD Dak Prescott. I don't know how to make it any more clear that LSU took away the read on the option. They were not going to let Dak beat them with his legs and if he did keep it they were going to punish him, that was their game plan and it worked the entire first qtr. The exact same thing Bama and OM did. You can say oh dak had 80 yds or so vs both of those teams but he only averaged like 2.9 and 3.6 yds per carry against them(rather pedestrian). Which resulted in a loss. Against bama we made the adjustment and started hitting quick routes just like this past saturday and got back into the game. If you want to see a positive from our style of play it is that Dak is going to take up a defender or two that spy him thus taking a defender out of the passing game.

And we did then same thing vs Bama. We talked about that last year too. Conservative.

Your argument has zero ground to stand on. MSU and most others script out their plays for the first couple of series. So its not a question of LSU taking away anything. They didn't. The script was very conservative. Again.... Look at the plays last year vs the plays this year. Just the first quarter will do. No misdirections, slip screens... None.

How can LSU take always something we didn't offer?

[Coach007]

A qb read is not just the de crashing or staying at home there is invariably another reason dak gave the ball off could be lbs or secondary walked up/slanted, d line alignment etc. If you think dak chose to have a negative play by handing the ball off instead of keeping it and gaining yds then I have no idea what you are thinking... As for game planning for the other two games last year again you apparently don't assume that the defensive scheme had anything to do with play calling or what would/ wouldn't work. I seen it maybe you should go into coaching since you have a bullet proof offensive gameplan that is far superior to any defensive scheme or adjustment made over a season.

.... Dak didn't call the plays. Sorry if you can't look at last years game on YouTube and this years on ESPN 3 and see the difference. Bama didn't take away, LSU didn't take away in the first quarter. They can't take away what we did not attempt. You can not argue that the defensive scheme forced us to change... The plays for the first series and more are predetermined and scripted. They are ran and the results are looked at...adjustments then made.

[I seen it dawg]

A qb read is not just the de crashing or staying at home there is invariably another reason dak gave the ball off could be lbs or secondary walked up/slanted, d line alignment etc. If you think dak chose to have a negative play by handing the ball off instead of keeping it and gaining yds then I have no idea what you are thinking... As for game planning for the other two games last year again you apparently don't assume that the defensive scheme had anything to do with play calling or what would/ wouldn't work. I seen it maybe you should go into coaching since you have a bullet proof offensive gameplan that is far superior to any defensive scheme or adjustment made over a season.

Lol we should have a good time with you while you're here.

[ckDOG]

We're ****ed. Dan's arrogant ass can't see that his offense must commit to using the QB as a routine running threat. It's a requirement for the offense to get the matchups required for big plays. Dan is pretty much a one trick pony when it comes to moving the ball. That's not an insult either because that trick is DAMN GOOD. It's works by math and not talent and we should rarely stray from it. We see significant regression when he deviates from his bread and butter bc, although our talent is better than when we got here, it's still not LSU and above level.

I get developing dak's weaknesses, but the biggest key to getting dak to a solid draft spot is through winning. Tebow and RG3 didn't get drafted bc they have high nfl ceilings. They were drafted bc they were winners that produced at the college level and the nfl wanted to gamble on that. Let him thrive at what he does best now and he can develop the nfl skill set later. Win win.

[BB30]

So... we were conservative on our first drive of the game? So you know for a fact that the plays we ran on the opening drive were scripted for the defense that LSU came out in? It couldn't be that they came out in a different look with different personnel groupings? And, I understand this is a message board where hindsight is easily used, and we aren't paid 4 million dollars to make decisions but do you honestly think you could have come up with a better game plan for LSU than our coaching staff? I just find it hard to believe that we were conservative just to be conservative. We will have to just agree to disagree. I don't think the but but but last year we did this and it would have worked this year argument is valid, team dynamics change to much from year to year.

[Swagger Vance]

@BB30
"do you honestly think you could have come up with a better game plan for LSU than our coaching staff?"

Answer: Yes

And for 4 million less dollars. Id start with using my dual threat QB as a dual threat QB and not pretend he is Drew Brees.

[BB30]

ha ha alright, you win swagger vance you are clearly a football wizard Dan shouldn't be anywhere near a football field. It is a shame you didn't put your name in for the job back in 2008 we would be winning national championships left and right.

[Swagger Vance]

So do you disagree that we should be using Dak as dual threat QB? And all that other BS that just left your fingers was a waste of everyones time.

[FISHDAWG]

So do you disagree that we should be using Dak as dual threat QB? And all that other BS that just left your fingers was a waste of everyones time.

hey dumbass ... you think you can just show up here and push people around and do nothing more than insult our coach ? Almost all of your post are contentious .... and btw, never PM me again ..... I swear mods - he's not even trying to hide it

[Coach007]

So... we were conservative on our first drive of the game? So you know for a fact that the plays we ran on the opening drive were scripted for the defense that LSU came out in? It couldn't be that they came out in a different look with different personnel groupings? And, I understand this is a message board where hindsight is easily used, and we aren't paid 4 million dollars to make decisions but do you honestly think you could have come up with a better game plan for LSU than our coaching staff? I just find it hard to believe that we were conservative just to be conservative. We will have to just agree to disagree. I don't think the but but but last year we did this and it would have worked this year argument is valid, team dynamics change to much from year to year.

Yes, I am 100% sure they were conservative. I am 100% sure that cdm scriptsnthe first 10-15 plays. Yep! I know for sure that anlot of coaches do. The plays that we ran were not of the same style as last year

I also know for a fact that cdm stated they have no film on what the defense will be by LSU. That the best they could do is to look at USC and name film.

Do you think Bama will look at the film of ole miss and say "man, they are great against the run. We need to throw the ball all day". No. No coach really does that. You stop their style and we have another plan that gets us back to our strength. You are saying that cdm conceded his offense way before they ever played a down of football.

[Swagger Vance]

@FISHDAWG

No one is impressed by you FISHDAWG. If youve got a problem with someone put it in a private message. I've got more class then to do this in a public thread.

[BB30]

again swagger, I'm sorry you are so ignorant. If you cannot see that running Dak on the read option was not going to be nearly as effective as it was last year against LSU then I cant help you. Would I love for Dak to be able to run the football as effectively as he did last year? Yes. And, we may see it at some point this year but our run blocking and backs are not where they need to be yet for it to be effective. We complain that Croom didn't make adjustments and ran the same plays over and over but that is exactly what your are expecting to run plays that wouldn't work. The only opportunity Dak had to run was on one to three pass plays that broke down or he had green in front of him. They had a guy on him every time.

[BB30]

No, coach I am saying that our personnel is dictating what we run. Go back and watch the first drive, I didn't think it was that conservative we tried to take a couple of shots down field and moved the ball some. Any time Dak got out of the pocket he had #45 in his face. I can see what you are saying and I just disagree with it. The good thing is we can both have opinions and it will not affect how we play one bit. I'm sure we all hope that this team gels and plays better the next few weeks and I'm fine with that. And if you are comparing Alabama's run game vs OM D-line to ours this year vs LSU its not even close to a reasonable comparison.

[Really Clark?]

Yes, I am 100% sure they were conservative. I am 100% sure that cdm scriptsnthe first 10-15 plays. Yep! I know for sure that anlot of coaches do. The plays that we ran were not of the same style as last year

I also know for a fact that cdm stated they have no film on what the defense will be by LSU. That the best they could do is to look at USC and name film.

Do you think Bama will look at the film of ole miss and say "man, they are great against the run. We need to throw the ball all day". No. No coach really does that. You stop their style and we have another plan that gets us back to our strength. You are saying that cdm conceded his offense way before they ever played a down of football.

I get what you are saying, but the flip side of the coin is we all know Steele made a point to study Dak and last years game. Said so himself to the press. If our first two series this year mirrored last years in similarity and we got stuffed then the complaint would be Dan is an idiot for not changing things up. You've harped on this for days now but that is exactly what the other side would have said and the anti-coach detractors are going to be negative no matter what he does, if it fails. If it suceeds you don't hear much from them. After the first 2 or 3 series, fine that's a debate. But the scripted series stuff you keep bringing up has many pitfalls as well and a detractor is going to choose which ever fits their narrative. Not saying you would have.

[Coach007]

again swagger, I'm sorry you are so ignorant. If you cannot see that running Dak on the read option was not going to be nearly as effective as it was last year against LSU then I cant help you. Would I love for Dak to be able to run the football as effectively as he did last year? Yes. And, we may see it at some point this year but our run blocking and backs are not where they need to be yet for it to be effective. We complain that Croom didn't make adjustments and ran the same plays over and over but that is exactly what your are expecting to run plays that wouldn't work. The only opportunity Dak had to run was on one to three pass plays that broke down or he had green in front of him. They had a guy on him every time.

Well I am just at a loss. Lol. Cdm should just retire now because his offense no longer works. Awesome! Lol.

What I expect is that we don't play conservative and not concede what we do until we have to. You can not say those plays would not have worked. They are, by friggin design, helpful to the points you are arguing.

[Swagger Vance]

"again swagger, I'm sorry you are so ignorant"

Well what I am sorry for is that you can not have an opposing or critical opinion on Mississippi State represented internet forums without receiving personal attacks from those you disagree with or have an opinion that differs from. Its really quite sad to see it coming from your own fan base, alumnus. I expect it from LSU or TSUN fans but us, no.

[BB30]

So do you disagree that we should be using Dak as dual threat QB? And all that other BS that just left your fingers was a waste of everyones time.

since this wasn't the first personal attack? Just about the same as the word ignorant.. waste of time, BS and all, I just choose not to be passive agressive

[Really Clark?]

Swagger it's not about having an opposing opinion so much as from first post 95% of what you post is agenda based against the coach. The first thread you started was taking down was about the same subject and wrong on points as well. Not to mention the condescending tone. I mean really? You think you can game plan better? Then unless you are already making $200-500,000 why are you wasting your time at your current job. Picking apart what fails AFTER the fact is not game planning. Have we had some bad plans? Yes and so did Saban against UNM last year for the ENTIRE game. Just cool the attitude.

[Coach007]

I get what you are saying, but the flip side of the coin is we all know Steele made a point to study Dak and last years game. Said so himself to the press. If our first two series this year mirrored last years in similarity and we got stuffed then the complaint would be Dan is an idiot for not changing things up. You've harped on this for days now but that is exactly what the other side would have said and the anti-coach detractors are going to be negative no matter what he does, if it fails. If it suceeds you don't hear much from them. After the first 2 or 3 series, fine that's a debate. But the scripted series stuff you keep bringing up has many pitfalls as well and a detractor is going to choose which ever fits their narrative. Not saying you would have.

Well, it is what this thread is about. :)

I'm not saying run the exact plays either. I am saying we have become conservative in the first quarter. We are not doing the things we did early last year that hot us to number one. If we are all saying that all anybody hasnto domis spy dak, then we need to remove cdm and get a new coach because his offense is done in the sec.

On the scripted plays, its not an opinion. That's cdm words. The first 12 to be exact. He joked about not doing 13 because that's an unlucky number. So again, he is conceding his offense before we ever play a down?

[Coach007]

In fact Clark, it reminds me very much so of the start against Baja last year

[Swagger Vance]

Well ofcourse im critical of the coach after that loss. We just lost a big game and there was a lot to be critical of. I just so happened to decide to create an account afterwards so I guess it was bad timing on my part. But if we come out and look like world beaters against Auburn and get the win then guess what, ill be complimentary about Dan. That's just how it goes.

[BB30]

Coach I can see where you are coming from and it is probably somewhere in the middle of our two opinions. Last years team had a totally different feel with an NFL back and a better line to take some of the pressure off of Dak, allowing those reads and certain plays to work. It also helped nobody outside of Starkville thought we would be that good. We have a less experienced group with less games under their belt than the group had last year. It could be that we were somewhat conservative because we aren't quite comfortable with the less experienced personnel running some of those plays. What ever it is hopefully as the season progresses we get back into a rhythm. I just think that we cant put that loss solely on the fact that Dak did not have success running the football.

[Behrdawg]

Well ofcourse im critical of the coach after that loss. We just lost a big game and there was a lot to be critical of. I just so happened to decide to create an account afterwards so I guess it was bad timing on my part. But if we come out and look like world beaters against Auburn and get the win then guess what, ill be complimentary about Dan. That's just how it goes.


Perhaps you should slow down your world beater attitude when you join a new board. Let everyone feel you out before you start the fire and brimstone mentality. Try earning some respect and make a good reputation for yourself. Just a thought.

[Really Clark?]

Well, it is what this thread is about. :)

I'm not saying run the exact plays either. I am saying we have become conservative in the first quarter. We are not doing the things we did early last year that hot us to number one. If we are all saying that all anybody hasnto domis spy dak, then we need to remove cdm and get a new coach because his offense is done in the sec.

On the scripted plays, its not an opinion. That's cdm words. The first 12 to be exact. He joked about not doing 13 because that's an unlucky number. So again, he is conceding his offense before we ever play a down?

Ok I get what you are saying. But let's look at the Bama. First drive 4 passes and 4 runs. Is that not good balance. Didn't score but moved the ball. Second drive the safety. Bad field position. Third drive, 2 passes 1 run then punt. It was pretty balanced. Now I know the actual play calling is different than just me telling the results. I get that I don't have the ability to break down each play called right now. And I still contend that while the first half play calling against Bama was poor, it was good enough that without a bad turn over by Dak and a first and goal at the one should have equaled more than 3 points. But that is the game and that stuff happens.

[starkvegasdawg]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/Snickers_wrapped.jpg

[Swagger Vance]

I earn respect by speaking my mind and telling what I believe to be the truth. If that doesn't get respect then I don't want it. People will either love it or hate it. I'm not running for public office or fan favorite.

[Really Clark?]

Well ofcourse im critical of the coach after that loss. We just lost a big game and there was a lot to be critical of. I just so happened to decide to create an account afterwards so I guess it was bad timing on my part. But if we come out and look like world beaters against Auburn and get the win then guess what, ill be complimentary about Dan. That's just how it goes.


It's not just after the loss being critical. It's the attitude and anti-coach statements that show you have an agenda against him not related to the loss or you a troll. You come in with piss and vinager and get called out by even people who are critical of Dan. Just need to check the attitude and arrogance. And this is coming from someone who was recently called a "prick" or "pretend to be prick" on here.

[Coach007]

Coach I can see where you are coming from and it is probably somewhere in the middle of our two opinions. Last years team had a totally different feel with an NFL back and a better line to take some of the pressure off of Dak, allowing those reads and certain plays to work. It also helped nobody outside of Starkville thought we would be that good. We have a less experienced group with less games under their belt than the group had last year. It could be that we were somewhat conservative because we aren't quite comfortable with the less experienced personnel running some of those plays. What ever it is hopefully as the season progresses we get back into a rhythm. I just think that we cant put that loss solely on the fact that Dak did not have success running the football.

You are confusing what I'm saying with others. Im not putting it on dak for not running. I'm talking plays by design. Slip screens, even back shoulder throws. Misdirection plays. All of those this that hurt a defense that is forced to spy a dual threat qb. Its the whole point of that offense.

An example. Put in motion Ross/Myles/dear/ fake that handoff, the back shump goes the opposite direction, and dak is trailing him. That spy and defense is following dak, the throw back is your high percentage gain. It didn't happen early.

Those plays early set the tone for the whole game. It makes a defense spread. We allowed them to crowd the box

[Behrdawg]

I earn respect by speaking my mind and telling what I believe to be the truth. If that doesn't get respect then I don't want it. People will either love it or hate it. I'm not running for public office or fan favorite.


Everyone here has "the truth"- especially the newbies. Until you earn the reputation of being correct, I'd suggest you calm down. That's all I'm saying.

[Really Clark?]

I earn respect by speaking my mind and telling what I believe to be the truth. If that doesn't get respect then I don't want it. People will either love it or hate it. I'm not running for public office or fan favorite.

You need to learn what the word respect means. You don't get it that way at all. What you really mean you don't care if you have respect from the others. But you can't get it by just speaking you mind, and this is the key, in any manner you wish.

[Swagger Vance]

@Really Clark

Yep, understood. At least youre somewhat civil, which believe me has not been the case from everyone. See FISHDAWG and his receding hair line as a good example. But seriously, thanks for some civility and I believe ill take that advice.

[BB30]

Ok, yes I see what you are saying now. Sorry for the confusion. I thought the first drive we moved the ball ok. I think LSU just did a better job of setting the tone defensively in the first half. I do think some of that would not have worked quite as well this time around but I get what your saying that we should have attempted to run some of it.

[Coach007]

@ Clark. Balance we had! And I thought our balance last year was outstanding. I'm speaking of play design. That's all.

My own opinion is that all coaches have that game that they can't see. In e moment, they are blind... So to speak. Cdm is no exception, Sabah isn't, miles isn't. In those game, great coaches are still in it, and we were.

I feel we will still contend for the west if we get back to what we do and make people prove we can't against them. Its at that moment we have other plays and designs to go to.

[CadaverDawg]

Guys, do what you want to do, but if you hit "reply quote" instead of "reply", you won't have to put "@____", and everyone will know who you're responding to.

Just letting you know.

[tcdog70]

whew, if ole Shank makes the FG then everybody is praising Dan for making the adjustment.We played LSU and they will make alot of teams offense look bad. Steele had a whole year to prepare for Dak. Sometimes your shit doesn't work. i'm sure our Coaching staff has a pretty good idea what our players are capable of doing. Dan thought our chance to win the Game was for Dak to throw the ****ing ball--guess what --he was right. if he doesn't have a brain fart on the delay penalty then Graves kicks the winning FG and all is WELL in the Land of the Bulldog.

How about some love for our defense for giving Us a chance to Win. LSU scored 2 TDs from a very short field and one of them was aided by a bogus 3td down phantom holding penalty. I'm more upset about our shitty punting and our inability to catch a punt than I am about our offense. Dan will get our Offense on track but I'm not sure about our special teams--He has never figured that out.

[BB30]

Yep, the defense looked really good albeit being helped out with a few big penalties but that is part of football. I do worry about or secondary once we see a more balanced attack. Second half adjustments on both sides of the ball were great though, I think we will win a couple of big games this year and I feel that this team grew up a lot through that LSU game.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Yes, I am 100% sure they were conservative. I am 100% sure that cdm scriptsnthe first 10-15 plays. Yep! I know for sure that anlot of coaches do. The plays that we ran were not of the same style as last year

I also know for a fact that cdm stated they have no film on what the defense will be by LSU. That the best they could do is to look at USC and name film.

Do you think Bama will look at the film of ole miss and say "man, they are great against the run. We need to throw the ball all day". No. No coach really does that. You stop their style and we have another plan that gets us back to our strength. You are saying that cdm conceded his offense way before they ever played a down of football.

I'm still having a little trouble with this. But I'm also not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to the nuances of formations and play design. So please bear with me while I dumb it down a bit for my benefit.

Here are our first two possessions against Auburn last year:


https://youtu.be/EDxWffKV-OY?t=43s


https://youtu.be/EDxWffKV-OY?t=2m29s

And here's our first drive against LSU this year:


https://youtu.be/FdXgnNfEJS0?t=2m39s

To my eyes, these look like the same offenses. We have three to five WRs spread from number to number on the field, an offset RB on many plays, and an offensive line whose guys' spacing looks the same. All those drives included some read-option plays where Dak chose to hand it off to the RB. Sure the plays are different. We had WRs or a TE in motion on a couple of the plays against LSU, whereas we didn't against Auburn. One of the plays in the Auburn drives included a QB roll out to the right, whereas the first LSU drive this year did not include a roll out. The LSU drive included an empty backfield, 5 WR set (much like we used against LSU and Texas A&M last year with success), and the Auburn drives did not. But, again, all three of those drives look like the same style of offense that we ran last year.

And yes, I've rewatched the first drive against LSU last year and have seen the plays that you've referred to. But I don't think the offenses in the videos I just posted are any less MSU's version of the spread than the offense that ran those couple of plays in the first drive against LSU last year. In fact, while we're on last year's LSU game, here's our second drive of the game:


https://youtu.be/gXuinZdgsdg?t=9m9s

Again, it looks pretty much like the same style of offense we ran on our first drive against them this year. And if our first couple of drives against LSU this year were in fact conservative, then it looks to me like those Auburn and LSU drives last year were too.

But, again, I claim no expertise, so if I'm missing something, please let me know. I'm interested to know your take on what makes these offensive possessions indicative of a stylistic shift, be in fundamental or nuanced.

[ETA: Tried to embed the videos, but apparently the fact that I have the start times queued up to the exact beginning of our drives messes with the board's embed function. Sorry, guys.]

[Swagger Vance]

I'm optimistic about the defense. Manny showed out in the gatorbowl vs michigan. And that offense was a juggernaut that season. So hes proven that he can formulate a game plan and have his guys execute it. Does not mean it will always be the best plan, but we know he is capable of hitting home runs.

[I seen it dawg]

BB and Vance

You both might should slow your roll with all the vitriole you are spewing. Most of these people have been here awhile that you are blasting at. Reign your shit in or you both will find somewhere else to play. I'm not real hip on both of you showing up at the same time arguing about the same shit in pretty much the same shitty attitude towards people.....

[Swagger Vance]

BB and Vance

You both might should slow your roll with all the vitriole you are spewing. Most of these people have been here awhile that you are blasting at. Reign your shit in or you both will find somewhere else to play. I'm not real hip on both of you showing up at the same time arguing about the same shit in pretty much the same shitty attitude towards people.....

Thats been over with for a couple hours, lets not get it stirred back up. No further comments necessary on that front.

[CadaverDawg]

Thats been over with for a couple hours, lets not get it stirred back up. No further comments necessary on that front.

You mean you aren't going to private message I Seen It and tell him how big of a badass you are, and that we run a "communist" message board, like you did me? I thought you "never backed down from an argument", tough guy.

In all seriousness, I'm glad you seem to have figured it out.