For those questioning the use of active shooter today

[starkvegasdawg]

I just read a transcript of the call from MHP to campus police and the first thing MHP told campus pd is that there is possibly an active shooter in Carpenter Hall. MSU PD responded they were aware of a possible suicidal person but we're not aware of an active shooter. MHP then said they were on the phone with a person in Carpenter Hall and were being told that a man was in there threatening to shoot others and then himself. MSU PD acting on that info issued the active shooter alert.

[godlluB]

I don't think that MSU PD directly runs the Maroon Alert system (although I could be wrong). The MHP call said "potential active shooter", the Maroon Alert didn't include the potential part.

I have some experience with emergency management, and the person handling what and how things are said to the public or media during a crisis needs to be a well trained professional liaison who understands how to deliver these sorts of messages.

Just because one police officer notified another that there was a "potential active shooter" doesn't in any way that is what should be released to the public. There should be no speculation and the language used must be very precise. I understand that this phone call is probably why the statement was released the way it was, but that still doesn't mean that it is how it should have been released.

Don't misunderstand me, I think that for the most part,everything happened this morning exactly the way it should. The fact that at this point, we're discussing the way something was worded in a tweet in the heat of the moment is a wonderful thing. If that's the worst problem we had in the response, we're doing pretty damned good.

That said, now is the time to analyze what happened,, what worked, and what didn't go so well so that those involved can take this information to make things work even better next time.

[DancingRabbit]

Who was that "person in Carpenter Hall and were being told that a man was in there threatening to shoot others and then himself"?

I guess if the suspect had a backpack and was saying those things then it was appropriate to say "active shooter" but I would put "possibly" in front of it.

[godlluB]

Who was that "person in Carpenter Hall and were being told that a man was in there threatening to shoot others and then himself"?

I guess if the suspect had a backpack and was saying those things then it was appropriate to say "active shooter" but I would put "possibly" in front of it.

You don't say "active shooter" in an official channel unless you have positive proof that shots are being fired. It doesn't matter if he's carrying a backpack or a machine gun. He isn't an active shooter unless he's pulled a trigger. Otherwise he's an "armed man".

[gravedigger]

You don't say "active shooter" in an official channel unless you have positive proof that shots are being fired. It doesn't matter if he's carrying a backpack or a machine gun. He isn't an active shooter unless he's pulled a trigger. Otherwise he's an "armed man".

Im gonna respectfully dissagree. i had a loved one close by and given the choice of them hearing "possible" or not before "active" i choose not. Why? I want them to respond to the greater threat. An active shooter or bomber is one who has the ability to harm someone even if they havnt carried out the action. Active only tells me their intent. Possible means they may or may not be a shooter at all. Until he's been proven to NOT have the weapon, he has it. That he threatens to shoot makes him active until he's immobilized.

The threat was real until proven otherwise. No matter how it ended. That ding dong could have chunked the gun in his movement to mccool.

If i put a gun to your face and threaten to shoot, im dam sure n active shooter before i pull the trigger.

[Liverpooldawg]

The people questioning it are the same people who would be calling for heads to roll and hiring lawyers if MSU had done as they suggest and it HAD turned out to really be a guy with a gun and people had died. MSU did exactly what they should have done given the information they had. The complainers may be fine with taking a gamble in that situation, I'm glad they aren't in charge.

[I seen it dawg]

It's semantics. Who cares the label. You had some stupid jackoff threatening people and better safe than sorry. He's lucky he's alive the idiot ****. And nobody got hurt. Carry on.

[Valyrian Steel]

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-incidents

"An active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area, and recent active shooter incidents have underscored the need for a coordinated response by law enforcement and others to save lives. "

[Biguglyjoe]

You don't say "active shooter" in an official channel unless you have positive proof that shots are being fired. It doesn't matter if he's carrying a backpack or a machine gun. He isn't an active shooter unless he's pulled a trigger. Otherwise he's an "armed man".

If a man walks into a university building with a "machine gun", they damn well better respond in the same manner. The difference between that and killing someone is a millisecond of effort. I have no problem with anyone being labeled an active shooter in that scenario.

[I seen it dawg]

So we gonna be upset now because people were scared shitless and diving out of harms way because they thought there was a shooter? Is that a bad thing? Someone might have gotten hurt taking cover so it makes it all wrong because the ****ing idiot was mislabeled? All sounds pretty damn stupid to me, be safe bc there are ****ing morons out there that need to stop breathing. And they are taking innocent people's lives. Active shooter or threatening ****ing idiot that is snapping is all the same shit today. Take cover and get the ****er apprehended or dead. What's wrong with people.

[trob115]

I am proud of the way everything was handled by msu today and the various law enforcement officials. My wife and I both work on campus and I never felt unsafe after the police response.

[ckDOG]

The people questioning it are the same people who would be calling for heads to roll and hiring lawyers if MSU had done as they suggest and it HAD turned out to really be a guy with a gun and people had died. MSU did exactly what they should have done given the information they had. The complainers may be fine with taking a gamble in that situation, I'm glad they aren't in charge.

Yep. You are presented with information regarding a potentially horrific situation, your options are

A) alert the public and give them a command to stay where they are due to an active danger

b) tell them they are in danger, but potentially downplay the risk

C) don't say saything

What are you going to do when your job is to keep people safe? I'm going A all day every day. The problem today was folks responding to Twitter rumors after the respectable authority issued the all clear.

[5 Star]

You shouldn't need to explain this sort of thing. I know there are tons of people out there (unfortunately a somewhat majority based on recent elections) of people that have nothing else to do in their life but question and protest this sort of thing. Worthless, jealous pricks out there questioning the actions of good, hardworking people making the best judgments/decisions that they can.

[BulldogBear]

The people questioning it are the same people who would be calling for heads to roll and hiring lawyers if MSU had done as they suggest and it HAD turned out to really be a guy with a gun and people had died. MSU did exactly what they should have done given the information they had. The complainers may be fine with taking a gamble in that situation, I'm glad they aren't in charge.

^^^This. Big Time. From experience.

I'm sorry we hurt his feelings with the AS label. Maybe he should sue and say he's the victim of a hate crime****

[mcain31]

I'm fine with the way things were handled now that I've had time to decompress. I'm glad they used active shooter since it instantly put me in a hyper-vigilant state. I thought like a marine instead of a student. That enabled me to keep others calm during the event

[Rayburn8]

Why did this need it's own thread. Can we just not be happy no one is hurt?

[Liverpooldawg]

Anybody who says MSU should have low balled this is.... I'm sorry but......an idiot. They did exactly what they should have done. If anything from what my son who was there tells me they need a little work on how to respond more seriously and effectively. Not that I'm complaining, they did a heck of a more lot right than they did wrong. Most of what I have heard was wrong were infrastructure type things, not actual response type stuff.

[drunkernhelldawg]

It's semantics. Who cares the label. You had some stupid jackoff threatening people and better safe than sorry. He's lucky he's alive the idiot ****. And nobody got hurt. Carry on.

But does it make people less safe in the long run? Does it provide inspiration for copycats? Does it give people an excuse to nurture conflict between the many American cultures and religions?

IMO, first responders and officials need to be more sensitive to the fact that the response can do more damage than the threat.

[zdawg]

I am proud of the way everything was handled by msu today and the various law enforcement officials. My wife and I both work on campus and I never felt unsafe after the police response.
Agreed. ..our son who is a MSU student was very complimentary of the University and all law enforcement. We were able to communicate with him as this incident unfolded and never once was ( obviously some ) that concerned with his or other family and friends safety because of the quick and massive response of the MSU police MHP and other law enforcement. We as parents ( who live several hours away ) want to express our deepest gratitude to all agencies involved.

Thank You for keeping our and all MSU kids safe !!!

[I seen it dawg]

But does it make people less safe in the long run? Does it provide inspiration for copycats? Does it give people an excuse to nurture conflict between the many American cultures and religions?

IMO, first responders and officials need to be more sensitive to the fact that the response can do more damage than the threat.

This climate of today is not 1982. Sensitive to how they will respond? People are shooting up buildings, killing cops, etc but you want to be sensitive to how it's responded to??? I guess you will be the first to come on and be upset that the guy was mislabeled and it hurt his rights. You need to wake up and get into 2015 where there are nut bags that will copycat things. The shootings. They aren't copycatting going into buildings and just being a nuisance. They are going into places and killing people. I'm sorry but you can take your sensitivity to the response and choke yourself with it.

[ETDawg]

^^^^
This!

[Really Clark?]

But does it make people less safe in the long run? Does it provide inspiration for copycats? Does it give people an excuse to nurture conflict between the many American cultures and religions?

IMO, first responders and officials need to be more sensitive to the fact that the response can do more damage than the threat.

I have no clue how "active shooter" label has anything to do with nurturing conflict between cultures and/or religion. That's not just out of left field but you are not even playing the same sport. And for thousands of years religious and culture conflicts have taken place and will take place. It does not need extra help.

The copycat issue has more to do with nationwide acknowledgement. The media exposure has more to do with copycats than everything else combine. I don't think the use of that terminology will have a thing to do with growing more copycats.

[shannondawg]

Amen to that.

Why did this need it's own thread. Can we just not be happy no one is hurt?

[Political Hack]

the initial message was across the line and incited panic, which is ok in this instance because everything ended ok. However, if you're bitching about people on twitter getting out of hand, you should look to the original source which was overblown. Rumors were flying everywhere. At one point I had heard that there were up to 3 shooters. Of course it was non-confirmed and I relayed it as such, but I also heard from multiple sources that they heard shots. That included a telephone call, a text message, twitter repostings here, and original posts here.

It got out of hand and snowballed quickly. "Active shooter" means someone is actively shooting. That wasn't the case. It incited panic and the university is extremely lucky nothing bad happened from this. However, I hope they learn from it and are even more prepared next time. By all indications, the boots on the ground handled it about as well as you could. It's just the public alerts and warnings that need to be examined.

[ckDOG]

the initial message was across the line and incited panic, which is ok in this instance because everything ended ok. However, if you're bitching about people on twitter getting out of hand, you should look to the original source which was overblown. Rumors were flying everywhere. At one point I had heard that there were up to 3 shooters. Of course it was non-confirmed and I relayed it as such, but I also heard from multiple sources that they heard shots. That included a telephone call, a text message, twitter repostings here, and original posts here.

It got out of hand and snowballed quickly. "Active shooter" means someone is actively shooting. That wasn't the case. It incited panic and the university is extremely lucky nothing bad happened from this. However, I hope they learn from it and are even more prepared next time. By all indications, the boots on the ground handled it about as well as you could. It's just the public alerts and warnings that need to be examined.

Sorry, don't see how telling the general public that there is a potential active shooter in a given location is any better or worse than just saying there is an active shooter. People are going to panic either way. Unless the university knew there was an unarmed harmless ass hole screaming at people at the time of the notification, this is really a ridiculous argument.

[Liverpooldawg]

What dang difference does it make if he was actually shooting yet or not? Some of you people sound like Bill Clinton trying to define the word is. MSU thought they had a suicidal guy with a gun loose on campus. In case some of you morons missed it that is exactly what virtually all of the mass school shootings started out as, a suicidal nut with a gun that hadn't fired a shot yet. What the heck are they supposed to do, wait till he has bumped of a few people before sending out an urgent alert?

[Dawg61]

What dang difference does it make if he was actually shooting yet or not? Some of you people sound like Bill Clinton trying to define the word is. MSU thought they had a suicidal guy with a gun loose on campus. In case some of you morons missed it that is exactly what virtually all of the mass school shootings started out as, a suicidal nut with a gun that hadn't fired a shot yet. What the heck are they supposed to do, wait till he has bumped of a few people before sending out an urgent alert?

He didn't have a GUN. Next time you bitch at Applebee's cause your steak is over cooked you might get labeled as a threat and within twenty minutes the entire country thinks you're robbing Applebee's at gunpoint. That's what happened yesterday.

It was completely reckless and irresponsible to put the entire campus and country on nerve over a dumbass freshman having a meltdown. The guy didn't have a ****ing gun on him and ZERO shots were fired. Now he's going to be labeled a school shooter for life and will either get expelled or be forced to drop out. That's harsh. Sounds like some seriously misguided anger here by thousands. Are you mad at this dumbass or are you mad at the psychos that caused previous horrible tragedies and you think it's ok to be overly cautious to the point of creating widespread panic. It only takes one bullet from a trigger happy cop or one person getting trampled to death on the drill field for everyone to be singing an entirely different tune today.

When someone is suicidal you don't call from the mountain tops "active shooter active shooter" and alert the entire country over it. Especially when they don't even have a ****ing gun on their person.

[mcain31]

He didn't have a GUN. Next time you bitch at Applebee's cause your steak is over cooked you might get labeled as a threat and within twenty minutes the entire country thinks you're robbing Applebee's at gunpoint. That's what happened yesterday.

It was completely reckless and irresponsible to put the entire campus and country on nerve over a dumbass freshman having a meltdown. The guy didn't have a ****ing gun on him and ZERO shots were fired. Now he's going to be labeled a school shooter for life and will either get expelled or be forced to drop out. That's harsh. Sounds like some seriously misguided anger here by thousands. Are you mad at this dumbass or are you mad at the psychos that caused previous horrible tragedies and you think it's ok to be overly cautious to the point of creating widespread panic. It only takes one bullet from a trigger happy cop or one person getting trampled to death on the drill field for everyone to be singing an entirely different tune today.

When someone is suicidal you don't call from the mountain tops "active shooter active shooter" and alert the entire country over it. Especially when they don't even have a ****ing gun on their person.

The active shooter part came before authorities had lain eyes on him. They rightfully assumed he was armed due to what the guy told the suicide hotline. He told the hotline that he was going kill the people on the drill field and himself. The University did the right thing.

[Really Clark?]

He didn't have a GUN. Next time you bitch at Applebee's cause your steak is over cooked you might get labeled as a threat and within twenty minutes the entire country thinks you're robbing Applebee's at gunpoint. That's what happened yesterday.

It was completely reckless and irresponsible to put the entire campus and country on nerve over a dumbass freshman having a meltdown. The guy didn't have a ****ing gun on him and ZERO shots were fired. Now he's going to be labeled a school shooter for life and will either get expelled or be forced to drop out. That's harsh. Sounds like some seriously misguided anger here by thousands. Are you mad at this dumbass or are you mad at the psychos that caused previous horrible tragedies and you think it's ok to be overly cautious to the point of creating widespread panic. It only takes one bullet from a trigger happy cop or one person getting trampled to death on the drill field for everyone to be singing an entirely different tune today.

When someone is suicidal you don't call from the mountain tops "active shooter active shooter" and alert the entire country over it. Especially when they don't even have a ****ing gun on their person.

To equate what happened yesterday to a complaint about your food at a restaurant is so far beyond absurd. I know you are trying use a somewhat absurd example to make folly of the situation but honestly it's pretty idiotic. He threatened with using a weapon to take others and himself out.

Did you miss the part of the threats to others? This was not just a suicidial situation. Completely different ballgame and HAS to be handled much differently. And how did anyone know he didn't have a gun? You assume he has enough weapons and ammunition to do what he is threatening. Nobody went in guns blazing and killing the young man. That would have been overkill but your premise is way way off the mark.

[Dawg61]

The active shooter part came before authorities had lain eyes on him. They rightfully assumed he was armed due to what the guy told the suicide hotline. He told the hotline that he was going kill the people on the drill field and himself. The University did the right thing.

Since when did suicide hotlines start releasing what suicidal people say on the phone to the entire country? How exactly does that help a suicidal person? Holy ****ing shit. BOTCHED big time.

[ckDOG]

He didn't have a GUN. Next time you bitch at Applebee's cause your steak is over cooked you might get labeled as a threat and within twenty minutes the entire country thinks you're robbing Applebee's at gunpoint. That's what happened yesterday.

It was completely reckless and irresponsible to put the entire campus and country on nerve over a dumbass freshman having a meltdown. The guy didn't have a ****ing gun on him and ZERO shots were fired. Now he's going to be labeled a school shooter for life and will either get expelled or be forced to drop out. That's harsh. Sounds like some seriously misguided anger here by thousands. Are you mad at this dumbass or are you mad at the psychos that caused previous horrible tragedies and you think it's ok to be overly cautious to the point of creating widespread panic. It only takes one bullet from a trigger happy cop or one person getting trampled to death on the drill field for everyone to be singing an entirely different tune today.

When someone is suicidal you don't call from the mountain tops "active shooter active shooter" and alert the entire country over it. Especially when they don't even have a ****ing gun on their person.

MS Hwy Patrol notified MSU PD of a potential active shooter due to a report that there was a disturbed person threatening to shoot others and himself. Are you suggesting the MSU should have telepathically determined there was no immediate threat of to delay warning to gather further facts while potential active shooter could be mowing down folks? You folks are just trying to be contrarian and are picking a ridiculous time to do it.

[RougeDawg]

He didn't have a GUN. Next time you bitch at Applebee's cause your steak is over cooked you might get labeled as a threat and within twenty minutes the entire country thinks you're robbing Applebee's at gunpoint. That's what happened yesterday.

It was completely reckless and irresponsible to put the entire campus and country on nerve over a dumbass freshman having a meltdown. The guy didn't have a ****ing gun on him and ZERO shots were fired. Now he's going to be labeled a school shooter for life and will either get expelled or be forced to drop out. That's harsh. Sounds like some seriously misguided anger here by thousands. Are you mad at this dumbass or are you mad at the psychos that caused previous horrible tragedies and you think it's ok to be overly cautious to the point of creating widespread panic. It only takes one bullet from a trigger happy cop or one person getting trampled to death on the drill field for everyone to be singing an entirely different tune today.

When someone is suicidal you don't call from the mountain tops "active shooter active shooter" and alert the entire country over it. Especially when they don't even have a ****ing gun on their person.

Ding ding ding. We finally have a logical response in this thread. You never report anything but what is factually known. Period. Based on some thought processes in this thread, we could theoretically tweet out "possible active shooter" for any and every situation because who knows, it may just happen. Shit, my commute home could possibly have an "Active Shooter" because there is the slim possibility of it happening. Shoud I therefore go to the extreme and warn all fellow motorists that there's a "Potential Active Shooter" amongst us and send everyone into panic? Seems logical!! Whomever reported "active shooter" yesterday should be reased from the university. Do you know what national media attention it brought to our great university yesterday? Really really negative and unnecessary attention might I add. Had this person been responsible, not jumped to erroneous conclusions, the story would have been the back page afterthought it now is.

You don't see the weather channel putting out "Possible cat 5 to hit Florida coast" when the only info they have does not lend to that conclusion. Jesus people, have we lost all logical thought processes in America? Serious question because any logical person would disagree with over reporting an event, in hopes of preventing a catastrophe That may or may not occur. Tell what's happening and one would hope we as humans can make a deductive response to the facts presented. Nothing more nothing less. We need to stop making decisions with our vag***s and emotion and get back to normal thought processes and reasoning.... Logic.

And for those of you who perceive today's violent acts to be more than we've ever seen, please do some research on the crime stats. Believe me, it's not what the media would have you know.

[Really Clark?]

Ding ding ding. We finally have a logical response in this thread. You never report anything but what is factually known. Period. Based on some thought processes in this thread, we could theoretically tweet out "possible active shooter" for any and every situation because who knows, it may just happen. Shit, my commute home could possibly have an "Active Shooter" because there is the slim possibility of it happening. Shoud I therefore go to the extreme and warn all fellow motorists that there's a "Potential Active Shooter" amongst us and send everyone into panic? Seems logical!! Whomever reported "active shooter" yesterday should be reased from the university. Do you know what national media attention it brought to our great university yesterday? Really really negative and unnecessary attention might I add. Had this person been responsible, not jumped to erroneous conclusions, the story would have been the back page afterthought it now is.

You don't see the weather channel putting out "Possible cat 5 to hit Florida coast" when the only info they have does not lend to that conclusion. Jesus people, have we lost all logical thought processes in America? Serious question because any logical person would disagree with over reporting an event, in hopes of preventing a catastrophe That may or may not occur. Tell what's happening and one would hope we as humans can make a deductive response to the facts presented. Nothing more nothing less. We need to stop making decisions with our vag***s and emotion and get back to normal thought processes and reasoning.... Logic.

And for those of you who perceive today's violent acts to be more than we've ever seen, please do some research on the crime stats. Believe me, it's not what the media would have you know.

Then take it up with the MHP because they alerted campus. How hard is that to understand?

ETA. You need to research the numbers of school shootings and mass murder events in recent years. It over 100% increase since 2000 I think, according to FBI

[Dawg61]

MS Hwy Patrol notified MSU PD of a potential active shooter due to a report that there was a disturbed person threatening to shoot others and himself. Are you suggesting the MSU should have telepathically determined there was no immediate threat of to delay warning to gather further facts while potential active shooter could be mowing down folks? You folks are just trying to be contrarian and are picking a ridiculous time to do it.

Cops talking to cops is fine. That's their job. Tweeting out "active shooter" to the world is not fine. Someone in California shouldn't have to be scared to death for the safety of their child enrolled at MSU because some other freshman had a mental breakdown and threatened suicide and shooting other people while he's talking on the SUICIDE HOTLINE. What types of phone calls do they usually get on the suicide hotline? Pizza orders?

[mcain31]

Since when did suicide hotlines start releasing what suicidal people say on the phone to the entire country? How exactly does that help a suicidal person? Holy ****ing shit. BOTCHED big time.

If a guy threatens to kill others, I believe that they are obligated to notify the authorities. The guy threatened to commit mass homicide. That isn't a threat to be taken lightly.

[ckDOG]

Ding ding ding. We finally have a logical response in this thread. You never report anything but what is factually known. Period. Based on some thought processes in this thread, we could theoretically tweet out "possible active shooter" for any and every situation because who knows, it may just happen. Shit, my commute home could possibly have an "Active Shooter" because there is the slim possibility of it happening. Shoud I therefore go to the extreme and warn all fellow motorists that there's a "Potential Active Shooter" amongst us and send everyone into panic? Seems logical!! Whomever reported "active shooter" yesterday should be reased from the university. Do you know what national media attention it brought to our great university yesterday? Really really negative and unnecessary attention might I add. Had this person been responsible, not jumped to erroneous conclusions, the story would have been the back page afterthought it now is.

You don't see the weather channel putting out "Possible cat 5 to hit Florida coast" when the only info they have does not lend to that conclusion. Jesus people, have we lost all logical thought processes in America? Serious question because any logical person would disagree with over reporting an event, in hopes of preventing a catastrophe That may or may not occur. Tell what's happening and one would hope we as humans can make a deductive response to the facts presented. Nothing more nothing less. We need to stop making decisions with our vag***s and emotion and get back to normal thought processes and reasoning.... Logic.

And for those of you who perceive today's violent acts to be more than we've ever seen, please do some research on the crime stats. Believe me, it's not what the media would have you know.

You mention the word logic several times but appear to have none. MS Hwy Patrol alerts MSU PD that there is potential active shooter threatening to kill people. You have seconds to react. Your hurricane example is dumb. Although time is limited to an extent you still have some to process data. A better example is a tornado warning. Time is far more limited in this scenario and I can't begin to tell you how many false alarms for tornados I've been through. You want to call those events embarrassing? I'd rather have a false warning than get plowed by an F5 with no heads up.

[Really Clark?]

If a guy threatens to kill others, I believe that they are obligated to notify the authorities. The guy threatened to commit mass homicide. That isn't a threat to be taken lightly.

To be fair, I think he is talking about that info getting out to the public.

[Dawg61]

If a guy threatens to kill others, I believe that they are obligated to notify the authorities. The guy threatened to commit mass homicide. That isn't a threat to be taken lightly.

No it's not to be taken lightly. It's also not to be announced to the world there's a potential threat. Keep it in house. Not one single person outside of the suicide hotline and the police should know a thing about this.

[mcain31]

No it's not to be taken lightly. It's also not to be announced to the world there's a potential threat. Keep it in house. Not one single person outside of the suicide hotline and the police should know a thing about this.

You may not realize this but there were hundreds of people on the drill field when the incident occurred. If he'd have had the means to commit mass homicide, lots of people could've died. The authorities didn't know that he was unarmed. After they had him in custody, the Police were still searching for a weapon and potential secondary shooters. The guy was ultimately looking for attention.

[Really Clark?]

Cops talking to cops is fine. That's their job. Tweeting out "active shooter" to the world is not fine. Someone in California shouldn't have to be scared to death for the safety of their child enrolled at MSU because some other freshman had a mental breakdown and threatened suicide and shooting other people while he's talking on the SUICIDE HOTLINE. What types of phone calls do they usually get on the suicide hotline? Pizza orders?

There are protocols in place already in conjunction with Federal, State, and Local authorities including the Dept of Ed about the active shooter terminology. In that agreed upon definition it mentions not just in the process of killing but the attempt to murder people. I think this is the gray area that may or may not have been used properly yesterday. But what we don't know is the exact wording and tone the individual used in his call or what exactly he wrote in the email to the professor. Those pieces of information along with increased reports (unconfirmed but information none the less) could have very well been what led authorities to the decision to use the wording. I believe (and believe many enforcement are trained) it's always better to assume the worse is happen at that incident. Looking back could of one the law enforcement jumped the gun and went beyond the situation at the time? Sure. But it's all ignorant speculation on our part after the fact. And they engaged and apprehended the suspect very peacefully as well. Great job of them evaluating the situation at contact as well.

[BulldogBear]

If a guy threatens to kill others, I believe that they are obligated to notify the authorities. The guy threatened to commit mass homicide. That isn't a threat to be taken lightly.
^^^^ This.

To anyone who thinks otherwise, I am sooooo glad you are not in charge of this sort of thing. I feel safer. So what about when you don't say anything and they guy kills your daughter and 13 of her friends? Sit down Dawgs61. Stand down and put the nipped back in your mouth.

ETA: To clarify, whether or not the guy should have been labeled an AS is subject to debate but as stated in the other thread I have absolutely no qualms about labeling him as such under the circumstances. I rarely get mad enough on here to say stuff like that above this ETA so what I am referring to is saying that the suicide hotline should've minded their own business. No. That's beyond stupid. 17 that.

[Dawg61]

You may not realize this but there were hundreds of people on the drill field when the incident occurred. If he'd have had the means to commit mass homicide, lots of people could've died. The authorities didn't know that he was unarmed. After they had him in custody, the Police were still searching for a weapon and potential secondary shooters. The guy was ultimately looking for attention.

The point is that MSU's campus and drill field became much more dangerous to be standing on AFTER they alerted the world there was an active shooter on campus when actually there was no such shooter and no such gun. That can't happen ever again. We are lucky nothing happened yesterday. Let's not test our luck again.

[Dawg61]

^^^^ This.

To anyone who thinks otherwise, I am sooooo glad you are not in charge of this sort of thing. I feel safer. So what about when you don't say anything and they guy kills your daughter and 13 of her friends? Sit down Dawgs61. Stand down and put the nipped back in your mouth.


When you throw out insults you should take the extra second to spellcheck. Dumbass. What happens if your daughter gets trampled on the drill field when there was never a gun to start with. You gonna feel like her life was worth giving to make sure the world knows there's an active shooter without a gun?

[BulldogBear]

When you throw out insults you should take the extra second to spellcheck. Dumbass. What happens if your daughter gets trampled on the drill field when there was never a gun to start with. You gonna feel like her life was worth giving to make sure the world knows there's an active shooter without a gun?

Yeah, I hate autocorrect.

That's about the first one I've ever hurled so gimme a break and read the ETA that I put on there before I read this post.

[Dawg61]

Yeah, I hate autocorrect.

That's about the first one I've ever hurled so gimme a break and read the ETA that I put on there before I read this post.

They should only be talking to the police. That's it. We shouldn't be talking about this because we and nobody else would know anything about it. That's the protocol. Not for the world to think there's an active shooter and then figure out there's no gun later.

[Really Clark?]

The point is that MSU's campus and drill field became much more dangerous to be standing on AFTER they alerted the world there was an active shooter on campus when actually there was no such shooter and no such gun. That can't happen ever again. We are lucky nothing happened yesterday. Let's not test our luck again.

He had threatened to shoot at students on the drill field if I understand correctly. So you purpose to gamble that he was not about to do what he says he is going to do? Authorities nationwide are being trained to take these threats much more seriously than what you are advocating. In a split second they had to decide what was the quickest way to get the students out from the open. An active shooter alert is the quickest way. And again you DO NOT know what credible information the authorities had at the time. Maybe they didn't but for all you know the message to professor included a pic of him holding a gun or the hotline heard what he thought were shots or etc. You get my point? You don't know what you are speaking of. Your worse case scenario of getting trampled from an alert that was too heavy handed is the best case scenario if he is sitting up top a building picking off people.

[mcain31]

The point is that MSU's campus and drill field became much more dangerous to be standing on AFTER they alerted the world there was an active shooter on campus when actually there was no such shooter and no such gun. That can't happen ever again. We are lucky nothing happened yesterday. Let's not test our luck again.

Hind sight is 20/20. You are using that for your conclusions. The authorities made the right call to get potential victims to safety. Remember that the authorities didn't know the guy was unarmed.

[PSYCHO(thesis)DEFENSE]

the person giving the go ahead for the alert is basically looking at a signal-to-noise ratio. In situations where a signal can result in loss of life, you have to be extremely liberal with what constitutes a signal. Of course this naturally results in false alarms, but 100 false alarms are worth identifying that 1 true signal. Just like the TSA, they get noise all day everyday, but when they have even a remote reason to believe they see a signal they have to treat it as a signal and a cavity search ensues.

And the idea that the authorities should have just kept the information to themselves is completely counter-productive to having authorities in the 1st place. That's what they're there for, to keep the thousands of people not aware of the situation from endangering themselves by walking into it. The active shooter alert did not send people running and panicking, it alerted people to take cover in offices and classrooms, or stay away from campus, until whatever situation was occurring had been diffused. The running and panicking occurred after the all-clear was given when there was still misinformation everywhere.

The only qualm I have is that the all-clear was given too soon, before the people receiving maroon alerts had been informed of the entirety of the situation. If they'd taken another 15 minutes to gather facts and address the misinformation from an official source before giving the all clear, I don't think we would have had the hysteric situation that brought a potential trampling into the argument.

[Really Clark?]

the person giving the go ahead for the alert is basically looking at a signal-to-noise ratio. In situations where a signal can result in loss of life, you have to be extremely liberal with what constitutes a signal. Of course this naturally results in false alarms, but 100 false alarms are worth identifying that 1 true signal. Just like the TSA, they get noise all day everyday, but when they have even a remote reason to believe they see a signal they have to treat it as a signal and a cavity search ensues.

And the idea that the authorities should have just kept the information to themselves is completely counter-productive to having authorities in the 1st place. That's what they're there for, to keep the thousands of people not aware of the situation from endangering themselves by walking into it. The active shooter alert did not send people running and panicking, it alerted people to take cover in offices and classrooms, or stay away from campus, until whatever situation was occurring had been diffused. The running and panicking occurred after the all-clear was given when there was still misinformation everywhere.

The only qualm I have is that the all-clear was given too soon, before the people receiving maroon alerts had been informed of the entirety of the situation. If they'd taken another 15 minutes to gather facts and address the misinformation from an official source before giving the all clear, I don't think we would have had the hysteric situation that brought a potential trampling into the argument.

This^^^

Often these incidents are over inside of 15 min before law enforcement even arrive. Also, in doing some research, a lot of universities once they receive a warning from authorities, campus source, or even an off-campus telephoned warning that a person is or has threatened others with a gun then the dispatcher follows that universities active shooter protocol. Gunshots are not required at all to go into active shooter protocol.

[Dawg61]

the person giving the go ahead for the alert is basically looking at a signal-to-noise ratio. In situations where a signal can result in loss of life, you have to be extremely liberal with what constitutes a signal. Of course this naturally results in false alarms, but 100 false alarms are worth identifying that 1 true signal. Just like the TSA, they get noise all day everyday, but when they have even a remote reason to believe they see a signal they have to treat it as a signal and a cavity search ensues.

And the idea that the authorities should have just kept the information to themselves is completely counter-productive to having authorities in the 1st place. That's what they're there for, to keep the thousands of people not aware of the situation from endangering themselves by walking into it. The active shooter alert did not send people running and panicking, it alerted people to take cover in offices and classrooms, or stay away from campus, until whatever situation was occurring had been diffused. The running and panicking occurred after the all-clear was given when there was still misinformation everywhere.

The only qualm I have is that the all-clear was given too soon, before the people receiving maroon alerts had been informed of the entirety of the situation. If they'd taken another 15 minutes to gather facts and address the misinformation from an official source before giving the all clear, I don't think we would have had the hysteric situation that brought a potential trampling into the argument.

So MSU just backed itself into a corner now by how they reacted to a person claiming they would kill themselves and others? Next time someone says that will MSU react the same way? Kinda forced to now because if they don't and somebody does actually kill someone else MSU will burn. If MSU looked or listened hard enough they could find atleast one person saying that every single day every year. So now MSU has paralyzed itself to verbal threats. It's now open season on shutting down the campus and the whole world knows it. What's stopping the next asshole from calling and making threats? Nothing and if anything they now know that MSU will bend over backwards from it and completely shutdown. That's dangerous and reckless. That's my point. This shit should have NEVER gotten out as public knowledge. Those tweeting "active shooter" and helping to create mass panic country wide need to be held accountable for that. This shit was on CNN and Fox News for ****s sake. Some dumbass freshman having a meltdown started a global news story. That's embarrassing and dangerous. I'm thrilled nobody was injured but I'm pissed off at those that created a global news story out of jack shit. Walked into the doctor's office with a hangnail and they cut off every limb to treat it.

[Really Clark?]

[QUOTE=Dawg61;401834]So MSU just backed itself into a corner now by how they reacted to a person claiming they would kill themselves and others? Next time someone says that will MSU react the same way? Kinda forced to now because if they don't and somebody does actually kill someone else MSU will burn. If MSU looked or listened hard enough they could find atleast one person saying that every single day every year. So now MSU has paralyzed itself to verbal threats. It's now open season on shutting down the campus and the whole world knows it. What's stopping the next asshole from calling and making threats? Nothing and if anything they now know that MSU will bend over backwards from it and completely shutdown. That's dangerous and reckless. That's my point. This shit should have NEVER gotten out as public knowledge. Those tweeting "active shooter" and helping to create mass panic country wide need to be held accountable for that. This shit was on CNN and Fox News for ****s sake. Some dumbass freshman having a meltdown started a global news story. That's embarrassing and dangerous. I'm thrilled nobody was injured but I'm pissed off at those that created a global news story out of jack shit. Walked into the doctor's office with a hangnail and they cut off every limb to treat it.[/QUOTE

What do you think schools do with bomb threats? Same principle. You lockdown and go through protocol regardless if you ever find a bomb. You treat it the same everytime, like there is the possibility of something happening from the threat. With bomb threats you actually have more time than with a possible shooter. Once they issue the threat, if they are going to through with their threat, shooters immediately or very soon begin searching for targets.

As far as what's to stop people from making threats? You do know they could face fairly stiff penalties including jail time, depending on the situation and how the suspect reacts upon contact and evaluation.

[Dawg61]

What do you think schools do with bomb threats? Same principle. You lockdown and go through protocol regardless if you ever find a bomb. You treat it the same everytime, like there is the possibility of something happening from the threat. With bomb threats you actually have more time than with a possible shooter. Once they issue the threat, if they are going to through with their threat, shooters immediately or very soon begin searching for targets.

They don't alert the world there's an active bomb on campus. That's the issue. An entire new set of problems just got created by doing that.

[Really Clark?]

They don't alert the world there's an active bomb on campus. That's the issue. An entire new set of problems just got created by doing that.

We didn't alert the world. We alerted the students and faculty through maroon alert. Social media is a great thing and allows for immediate information to the campus. They cannot control who all will get that info from the students and social media. It's a two edge sword but it allows for instant information.

[Dawg61]

We didn't alert the world. We alerted the students and faculty through maroon alert. Social media is a great thing and allows for immediate information to the campus. They cannot control who all will get that info from the students and social media. It's a two edge sword but it allows for instant information.

It's dangerous and reckless. How can you not see that? Those that tweeted need to be held accountable. Those that leaked "active shooter" without 100% knowing for a fact have now created potentially more dangerous situations for MSU. It's stupid. Stop sticking up for it. It has caused more damage than good. Don't send out false Maroon Alerts that create mass panic. I'm done with this conversation. The damage has already been done. Let's let the story die.

[Really Clark?]

It's dangerous and reckless. How can you not see that? Those that tweeted need to be held accountable. Those that leaked "active shooter" without 100% knowing for a fact have now created potentially more dangerous situations for MSU. It's stupid. Stop sticking up for it. It has caused more damage than good. Don't send out false Maroon Alerts that create mass panic. I'm done with this conversation. The damage has already been done. Let's let the story die.

I don't understand how you don't understand its protocol developed by law enforcement in conjunction with federal agencies and you do not know all the facts either. If it played out the opposite way people would have crucified the university for not alerting the students until shots were fired. And don't say that's not true because it has happened before. That is what is stupid with your argument. The university didn't start the situation, the individual suspect did, they had to address it at that point. You being asinine about something that didn't happen doesn't change the fact they the university did not creat the problem to begin with and it was resolved peacefully. And no amount of administrative protocol can alleviate individual panic. Many people didn't.

[ScoobaDawg]

It's dangerous and reckless. How can you not see that? Those that tweeted need to be held accountable. Those that leaked "active shooter" without 100% knowing for a fact have now created potentially more dangerous situations for MSU. It's stupid. Stop sticking up for it. It has caused more damage than good. Don't send out false Maroon Alerts that create mass panic. I'm done with this conversation. The damage has already been done. Let's let the story die.

Dear god. Shut the hell up. you are so wrong. You can easily pick and point and say it was wrong to "alert the world" in hindsight but it's wrong. You have to assume worse case in this scenarios. From the suicide line, yes they damn well better pass on info of a potential mass shooting on a school campus and not just think its a psyco off his rocker. Because if you assume it's just a threat, and you end up with columbine instead then you did not do all you could to protect the safety of the students. The police had no way to know if he had a gun. The only semantics anyone can get into is the active shooter vs armed. But the difference in that is a millisecond change in the persons decision making.

The Maroon Alert worked. There was a possible situation. Everyone came out safe.

and it is a non-story now thank God.