Interesting points from Detillier on OOB, regarding D-Line play...

[CadaverDawg]

Mike Detillier (sp?) was on OOB discussing LSU and their new D Coordinator. He said he felt like the D-Line would get after the QB a lot more this year, and how great that news was for LSU fans. He said Chavis's scheme didn't put emphasis on pass rush as much as Steele and Orgeron would.

Then he said this...

"In today's brand of college football, pass rush is so important. You have Got to get after the QB and make him throw on the run or knock him down, if you want to be successful on defense." (Paraphrasing)

Do you agree with that? Is that the most important aspect of a DLine nowadays?

I seem to disagree slightly. #1, offenses are getting the ball out so quickly now, that it seems hard for even elite pass rushers to get to the QB as much. #2, I will always think stopping the run is the most important thing on defense, Bc making a team one dimensional is key.

Not saying pass rush isn't important, Bc it is, and I hope we improve ours. I'm just not sure it is THE most important. Your thoughts?

[dawgs]

I think getting after the QB is a priority. If you can force a QB into poor decisions, those will turn into turnovers. And with the way pass defense is called these days, you can't let a QB sit back and pick you apart, because the secondary just can't cover them long enough. Obviously you can't be a sieve against the run, but if you have me pick between being an elite pass rushing DL + avg or slightly above avg run stopping DL, or vice versa, I'll take the elite pass rushing DL.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

In my humble opinion, it depends on the type of QB. For instance, Pro style QB's seem to be bothered more by pressure straight up the middle than do spread QB's. I think you've got to get pressure on the spread Qb's from the outside and use your inside guys for gap protection. That said, I agree that stopping the run is the most important piece especially in the SEC. Even though there are several spread teams, they still emphasize the run a great deal and rely on it. Last year Auburn, State, and Mizzou ranked in the Top 10 in SEC individual rushing, with Auburn at #1 and State at #3.

[thf24]

From a strictly academic point of view, I'd think you'd come out way worse if your DL only played the pass vs only playing the run. But I do think the pass rush has become more and more important with time, because offenses are getting faster, receivers are getting better, and OC's are getting more creative with routes. You can't count on your pass coverage nearly as much as ten or fifteen years ago no matter how good it is; got to get some help from the pass rush.

[Johnson85]

Mike Detillier (sp?) was on OOB discussing LSU and their new D Coordinator. He said he felt like the D-Line would get after the QB a lot more this year, and how great that news was for LSU fans. He said Chavis's scheme didn't put emphasis on pass rush as much as Steele and Orgeron would.

Then he said this...

"In today's brand of college football, pass rush is so important. You have Got to get after the QB and make him throw on the run or knock him down, if you want to be successful on defense." (Paraphrasing)

Do you agree with that? Is that the most important aspect of a DLine nowadays?

I seem to disagree slightly. #1, offenses are getting the ball out so quickly now, that it seems hard for even elite pass rushers to get to the QB as much. #2, I will always think stopping the run is the most important thing on defense, Bc making a team one dimensional is key.

Not saying pass rush isn't important, Bc it is, and I hope we improve ours. I'm just not sure it is THE most important. Your thoughts?

I think it's the easiest way to have a good D. If you're DL just holds the line, you are putting a lot of pressure on your linebackers and secondary. No problem if you're alabama, but a problem for most teams. If you have a disruptive pass rush, you can potentially limit a team from taking advantage of a weak link in the secondary or at LB.

Looking at it another way, if I was looking to build a defense from scratch, number one on my wishlist would be a DL that can get to the QB. You have that consistently and it makes scheming fomr the rest of your defense a lot easier.

[smootness]

In the NFL, pass rush is now priority 1, 2, and 3. Nothing else matters if you can't rush the passer.

It is becoming that way more and more every year in college football as well.

[CadaverDawg]

I think it's the easiest way to have a good D. If you're DL just holds the line, you are putting a lot of pressure on your linebackers and secondary. No problem if you're alabama, but a problem for most teams. If you have a disruptive pass rush, you can potentially limit a team from taking advantage of a weak link in the secondary or at LB.

Looking at it another way, if I was looking to build a defense from scratch, number one on my wishlist would be a DL that can get to the QB. You have that consistently and it makes scheming fomr the rest of your defense a lot easier.

Not sure I agree. If they never have to pass because you can't stop the run, they control the game. Not to mention they don't have to throw as much, so less opportunity for turnovers one would think.

[smootness]

Not sure I agree. If they never have to pass because you can't stop the run, they control the game. Not to mention they don't have to throw as much, so less opportunity for turnovers one would think.

This is still somewhat true in college, I agree. I think pass rush and run stopping are equal in today's college football, though. I don't think stopping the run is still more important than getting to the QB. When you face teams like GT, Alabama, etc. who can run it all day on you if you can't stop it, obviously you have to be able to do that. But there are now so many teams who throw the ball all over the place, and against them, stopping the run doesn't matter much. It's all about getting to the QB and producing negative plays.

[Prediction? Pain.]

This got me thinking about any potential correlation between sack stats and a defense's quality. Here are the sack stats for the SEC since 2010:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/z6-ngCdd7c3no6iEoQ8MllsW-WjBBlvcZyTRQWBGc34=w838-h364-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lHtP79EQHUUbeUIGueZuqiChg5kdilE_no86MGS8KtA=w837-h360-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qAxMk-6TOsSF_q5aDTV2CJzzGjIwcDqU2MZUDs3T4b8=w835-h402-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_D03P5UP_sl3z9wb8RH3WCT4JAGSVh7-e0JNwA56nJ8=w836-h396-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ytNbQ9FtXcJK647ylv5z_iUb52FqMKEK9RR4G7WfyTk=w838-h396-no

Notwithstanding the fact that this doesn't account for QB hurries (which I don't think are as closely tracked in college as the NFL), this looks kind of like a mixed bag. For example, last year LSU was next to last in the conference in sacks and U. Miss. was in middle of the pack (7th). But both of those defenses were top 15 in the national S&P+ rankings, had the No. 1 and No. 2 scoring defenses in the SEC, the No. 1 and No. 3 passing defenses in the SEC, and the No. 1 and No. 4 total defenses in the SEC.

Lots more analysis can be done here, I'm sure. I'll check back in later.

[BulldogBear]

I would always rather have pressure than great pass coverage if I had to choose. Pressure is worth an extra DB. Pressure causes mistakes. If the QB is not under pressure he may can rifle it through my coverage anyway or wait for the inevitable open man. However, I'm not sure that should be all on the Dline.

[Dawgcentral]

Stop the run. Pressure the QB. The number of sacks isn't as important to me as altering sight lines and passing lanes.

I can appreciate a sack as much as anyone, and I really enjoy seeing them. But making that QB rush his throw or make a big mistake is just as much fun. Staying in his head throughout the game can pay big dividends.

[IMissJack]

Looks like Mizzou is doing something right the last few years....

[Todd4State]

This got me thinking about any potential correlation between sack stats and a defense's quality. Here are the sack stats for the SEC since 2010:



Notwithstanding the fact that this doesn't account for QB hurries (which I don't think are as closely tracked in college as the NFL), this looks kind of like a mixed bag. For example, last year LSU was next to last in the conference in sacks and U. Miss. was in middle of the pack (7th). But both of those defenses were top 15 in the national S&P+ rankings, had the No. 1 and No. 2 scoring defenses in the SEC, the No. 1 and No. 3 passing defenses in the SEC, and the No. 1 and No. 4 total defenses in the SEC.

Lots more analysis can be done here, I'm sure. I'll check back in later.

I think you also have to look at and factor in tackles for loss, interceptions, fumbles, and points allowed per game, and yards per game.

[Bocephus]

I think you will see more disguise coverages to try to force QB's into making mistakes. I think it will be disguised in the fronts and sec.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I think you also have to look at and factor in tackles for loss, interceptions, fumbles, and points allowed per game, and yards per game.

No doubt. I was just thinking about the premise of the thread: How important is a great pass rush? And is it essential to have a great pass rush to have a great defense?

There's definitely no traditional stat to measure all the different ways a D-Line can make an opposing QB's job harder. But sacks seem, at least to me, to be a decent place to start.

Just went through the QB hurry numbers. Again, I don't think these are "officially" recorded by the NCAA, but they're all from the same database as the sack numbers. Here they are for 2014, in order from most to least:

UGA – 94
AU – 85
MSU – 84
UF – 68
A&M – 53
Bama – 50
Mizzou – 46
U. Miss. – 38
LSU – 37
UT – 36
AR – 36
UK – 28
SC – 27
Vandy – 17

Both LSU and U. Miss., coming in at 8th and 9th in the conference, were a little below average at getting QB hurries.

And, even though this may not directly go to pressure on QBs, here are the TFL numbers for 2014:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EgRWSzkMkhUHm7Pod9djvEfpgYrbut7q51bWx34j3uQ=w828-h397-no

U. Miss. did post solid numbers here, though LSU again did not.

Based on these numbers, then, it doesn't look like LSU was causing much havoc behind the line of scrimmage last year, yet it still managed to have the best total defense and second-best scoring defense in the SEC.

That doesn't necessarily disprove the points being made on OOB about the importance of a great pass rush. But I think it does show that it's possible to have a very good defense that isn't necessarily causing crazy amounts of negative plays or scaring the hell out of the QB.

Of course, my personal preference as a fan would be to see as much havoc as possible while also being stingy at giving up points and yards. Even if an elite level of QB pressure isn't a prerequisite for an elite D, why not have it all?

Which brings us to Diaz -- last year La. Tech was ranked 1st or 2nd in C-USA in scoring D, total D, sacks, and TFLs. Sounds good to me.

[shoeless joe]

So last year we were #2 in sacks and #3 in hurries? Hmmm...and all year I was told our pass rush sucked

[msstate7]

So last year we were #2 in sacks and #3 in hurries? Hmmm...and all year I was told our pass rush sucked

It wasn't good enough when it counted. Sims converting those 3rd downs and not being able to pressure a handicapped Wallace